{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.16,"endTime":44.69,"body":"Welcome to Intentional Teaching, a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.16,"endTime":44.69,"body":"podcast aimed at. Educators to help them develop"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":44.69,"endTime":51.019999999999996,"body":"foundational. Teaching skills and explore new ideas"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":44.69,"endTime":51.019999999999996,"body":"and teaching. I'm your host, Derek Bruff. I hope"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.019999999999996,"endTime":55.91,"body":"this podcast helps you be more. Intentional in how"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.019999999999996,"endTime":55.91,"body":"you teach and in how you develop as a teacher over"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":55.91,"endTime":62.983,"body":"time. I am recording this just after sunset on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":55.91,"endTime":62.983,"body":"shores of Pickwick Lake in Tennessee. My family and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":62.983,"endTime":68.893,"body":"I are out camping for a few days here. As we wrap up"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":62.983,"endTime":68.893,"body":"Summer. Hope you don't mind a little ambiance in the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":68.893,"endTime":73.633,"body":"background During these late summer episodes of the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":68.893,"endTime":73.633,"body":"podcast, I'm sharing some interviews that I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":73.633,"endTime":80.65299999999999,"body":"conducted in much cooler times. It is sweltering out"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":73.633,"endTime":80.65299999999999,"body":"here right now. Tonight, back in February, as part"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":80.65299999999999,"endTime":86.263,"body":"of a slow read of my book, Intentional Tech, I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":80.65299999999999,"endTime":86.263,"body":"talked with Justin Shaffer, teaching professor in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":86.263,"endTime":92.071,"body":"chemical and biological engineering at the Colorado"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":86.263,"endTime":92.071,"body":"School of Mines. Chapter three of the book deals"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":92.071,"endTime":98.281,"body":"with using technology to make visible thin slices of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":92.071,"endTime":98.281,"body":"student learning. I reached out to Justin, who is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":98.281,"endTime":102.721,"body":"also associate dean of undergraduate studies at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":98.281,"endTime":102.721,"body":"Mines, to learn about some of the ways he uses"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":102.721,"endTime":108.632,"body":"technology both in and out of the classroom to learn"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":102.721,"endTime":108.632,"body":"more about his students learning. That topic quite"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":108.66199999999999,"endTime":114.602,"body":"naturally led to discussions of Justin's high"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":108.66199999999999,"endTime":114.602,"body":"structure approach to course design. Justin has a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":114.602,"endTime":120.332,"body":"book coming out later this year, or maybe early 2025,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":114.602,"endTime":120.332,"body":"from Macmillan Learning called High Structure Course"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":120.332,"endTime":126.242,"body":"Design for STEM that I know will be incredibly"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":120.332,"endTime":126.242,"body":"useful to STEM instructors of all experience levels."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":126.722,"endTime":130.652,"body":"In the show notes, you'll find a link to a sign up"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":126.722,"endTime":130.652,"body":"form for anyone interested in updates on the book"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":131.102,"endTime":135.632,"body":"and its release, and you'll find a link to a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":131.102,"endTime":135.632,"body":"collection of resources on high structure course"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":135.632,"endTime":141.93200000000002,"body":"design that Justin curated for the University of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":135.632,"endTime":141.93200000000002,"body":"Virginia's Teaching Hub website, where I serve as"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":142.232,"endTime":147.152,"body":"something of an editor. I should also mention that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":142.232,"endTime":147.152,"body":"Justin is now officially the first repeat guest on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":147.152,"endTime":152.582,"body":"intentional teaching. He was part of a panel way"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":147.152,"endTime":152.582,"body":"back in episode nine on studio style biology courses."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":154.187,"endTime":161.027,"body":"Justin, I'm so happy to have you back on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":154.187,"endTime":161.027,"body":"You were on several months ago to talk about studio"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":161.837,"endTime":167.59699999999998,"body":"biology courses, but I know there's a lot of aspects"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":161.837,"endTime":167.59699999999998,"body":"of your teaching that are pretty interesting, and so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":167.59699999999998,"endTime":170.47699999999998,"body":"I'm glad to have you back to talk about some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":167.59699999999998,"endTime":170.47699999999998,"body":"different parts of your teaching today."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":171.22699999999998,"endTime":175.21699999999998,"body":"Yeah, thanks Derek. I had a blast"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":171.22699999999998,"endTime":175.21699999999998,"body":"that came before too, and hopefully we can dive into"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":175.21699999999998,"endTime":179.147,"body":"some different areas and it's great to be here again."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":175.21699999999998,"endTime":179.147,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":179.65699999999998,"endTime":184.277,"body":"Grea. Well, and I don't think I asked"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":179.65699999999998,"endTime":184.277,"body":"you this question last time because we had a kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":184.277,"endTime":190.457,"body":"a panel on. So I skipped my usual opening question."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":184.277,"endTime":190.457,"body":"But can you tell us about a time when you realized"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":190.457,"endTime":191.897,"body":"you wanted to be an educator?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":192.589,"endTime":195.97899999999998,"body":"Oh, yeah. I love this question you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":192.589,"endTime":195.97899999999998,"body":"have on the top of the pods. You're right. We didn't"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":195.97899999999998,"endTime":203.269,"body":"do that one. And so, yeah, I kind of have a positive"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":195.97899999999998,"endTime":203.269,"body":"and a negative version of answer that question. But"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":204.31900000000002,"endTime":211.969,"body":"when I was in college at the time, that's when I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":204.31900000000002,"endTime":211.969,"body":"think it was book seven. Yeah, Book seven was just"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":211.969,"endTime":216.949,"body":"coming out of Harry Potter. So you can place my age"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":211.969,"endTime":216.949,"body":"based on this conversation. But at first I love"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":216.949,"endTime":222.49900000000002,"body":"reading the Harry Potter books. Then when I was like"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":216.949,"endTime":222.49900000000002,"body":"teens, early twenties, and I just the whole academic"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":222.49900000000002,"endTime":227.41899999999998,"body":"side of his experience, like when Harry is going to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":222.49900000000002,"endTime":227.41899999999998,"body":"get his books and go back to school. And I know this"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":227.41899999999998,"endTime":232.75900000000001,"body":"sounds hokey, but I really like that part of that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":227.41899999999998,"endTime":232.75900000000001,"body":"book and it really is a positive memory for me when"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":232.75900000000001,"endTime":237.469,"body":"I was younger and then being in college at the same"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":232.75900000000001,"endTime":237.469,"body":"time, I just love going to the bookstore and getting"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":237.469,"endTime":243.399,"body":"that fresh feel the new semester. So I was I knew I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":237.469,"endTime":243.399,"body":"liked the academic experience. I didn't know I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":243.399,"endTime":247.639,"body":"wanted to teach because I went to college for"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":243.399,"endTime":247.639,"body":"chemical engineering. I remember distinctly in high"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":247.639,"endTime":252.31900000000002,"body":"school asking my AP chemistry teacher, You know,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":247.639,"endTime":252.31900000000002,"body":"what can I do in college where I don't have to go to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":252.31900000000002,"endTime":256.289,"body":"any more school? Just get a good job after four"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":252.31900000000002,"endTime":256.289,"body":"years ago, be a chemical engineer. What's that? And"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":256.289,"endTime":261.229,"body":"then kind of went from there. But when I was in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":256.289,"endTime":261.229,"body":"college, I did a couple of internships. I worked at"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":261.229,"endTime":265.519,"body":"Bristol-Myers Squibb. One summer, I worked at"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":261.229,"endTime":265.519,"body":"Kimberly-Clark, and I just didn't like the corporate"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":265.519,"endTime":270.709,"body":"environment. I didn't like the structure of it, the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":265.519,"endTime":270.709,"body":"politics. Little did I know that exists in academia,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":270.709,"endTime":275.959,"body":"too. But at the time I thought, Well, okay, I might"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":270.709,"endTime":275.959,"body":"be better off for graduate school. So I my joke I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":275.959,"endTime":279.889,"body":"tell my students now as I learned, I don't like"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":275.959,"endTime":279.889,"body":"money and I wanted to be a professor instead. So I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":279.889,"endTime":284.839,"body":"went to graduate school thinking I was going to be"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":279.889,"endTime":284.839,"body":"research faculty knowing I like the academic"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":284.839,"endTime":289.909,"body":"environment and everything. But I just the research"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":284.839,"endTime":289.909,"body":"at the bench just wasn't for me, didn't really fit"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":289.909,"endTime":294.409,"body":"so well. I didn't have great experiences at"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":289.909,"endTime":294.409,"body":"conferences and things presenting. It was very"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":294.409,"endTime":301.12899999999996,"body":"stressful for me. So but I got introduced to what I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":294.409,"endTime":301.12899999999996,"body":"affectionately call Jo's Blue Book. And I know you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":301.12899999999996,"endTime":306.25899999999996,"body":"all can't see this now, but I'm showing Derek the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":301.12899999999996,"endTime":306.25899999999996,"body":"scientific teaching book from Jo Handelsman. I got"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":306.25899999999996,"endTime":310.199,"body":"that when I was in grad school, and that really"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":306.25899999999996,"endTime":310.199,"body":"changed the course of what I thought you could do as"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":310.239,"endTime":315.769,"body":"a educator, that you can actually approach teaching"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":310.239,"endTime":315.769,"body":"with a scientific lens, study it to publish on it."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":316.039,"endTime":321.649,"body":"And so from that point on, I kind of went on the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":316.039,"endTime":321.649,"body":"educator route as a teaching professor, which my"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":321.649,"endTime":327.649,"body":"current role is. So I went through kind of adjunct"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":321.649,"endTime":327.649,"body":"lecturer, assistant teaching professor, now all the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":327.649,"endTime":333.529,"body":"way to this and I'm now even stepping into"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":327.649,"endTime":333.529,"body":"administration. So yeah, it was kind of some pop"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":333.529,"endTime":339.649,"body":"culture stuff, some experiences from real life"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":333.529,"endTime":339.649,"body":"combined with I don't know, I just I really enjoy"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":339.649,"endTime":342.469,"body":"that the working with students and that kind of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":339.649,"endTime":342.469,"body":"immediacy of it."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":342.996,"endTime":348.006,"body":"MM Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and it's,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":342.996,"endTime":348.006,"body":"you know, it's one of those career paths that makes"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":348.006,"endTime":353.526,"body":"perfect sense in hindsight. But yeah, maybe at the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":348.006,"endTime":353.526,"body":"time there were some some interesting choices to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":353.526,"endTime":353.82599999999996,"body":"make."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":354.554,"endTime":359.38399999999996,"body":"Although I'll say Sorry to interrupt"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":354.554,"endTime":359.38399999999996,"body":"you, Derek. I'll, I'll say my wife tells me I should"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":359.38399999999996,"endTime":364.484,"body":"have been an accountant because I like spreadsheets"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":359.38399999999996,"endTime":364.484,"body":"so much, I'd make more money. So I'm in between as"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":364.484,"endTime":365.654,"body":"an educator and engineer."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":366.722,"endTime":372.662,"body":"Yeah, well, and one part of your your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":366.722,"endTime":372.662,"body":"CV I wanted to ask you about is your post-doc"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":372.662,"endTime":380.794,"body":"experience at UNC-Chapel Hill, which I take it was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":372.662,"endTime":380.794,"body":"not a traditional postdoc experience. Can you say a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":380.794,"endTime":384.484,"body":"little bit about that and kind of how that has"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":380.794,"endTime":384.484,"body":"informed your your career since then?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":384.93399999999997,"endTime":389.764,"body":"Yeah, I wouldn't be here without"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":384.93399999999997,"endTime":389.764,"body":"that. That's the truth of it. So this program is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":389.764,"endTime":395.734,"body":"called SPIRE S-P-I-R-E, and that's at Carolina. You"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":389.764,"endTime":395.734,"body":"mentioned it's part of a larger umbrella program"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":395.734,"endTime":401.524,"body":"called IRACDA. I-R-A-C-D-A. I cannot remember what"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":395.734,"endTime":401.524,"body":"it stands for, but it's funded by the NIH. And the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":401.524,"endTime":406.174,"body":"way the programs work is they're typically three"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":401.524,"endTime":406.174,"body":"year postdocs and they're meant to train future"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":406.174,"endTime":411.93399999999997,"body":"faculty, not just in research, but also in teaching."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":406.174,"endTime":411.93399999999997,"body":"So we're not supposed to call them teaching postdocs,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":411.93399999999997,"endTime":415.62399999999997,"body":"which is to call them research postdocs with a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":411.93399999999997,"endTime":415.62399999999997,"body":"teaching component, which is really what it was,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":415.62399999999997,"endTime":420.93399999999997,"body":"because I actually still did research and this was"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":415.62399999999997,"endTime":420.93399999999997,"body":"kind of the savior for me because I was finishing up"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":420.93399999999997,"endTime":428.25399999999996,"body":"grad school Ph.D. I knew I didn't really want to do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":420.93399999999997,"endTime":428.25399999999996,"body":"real research at the bench full time anymore. I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":428.25399999999996,"endTime":433.774,"body":"couldn't apply for an industry job because my CV was"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":428.25399999999996,"endTime":433.774,"body":"so academic, tailored. But then this these I found"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":433.774,"endTime":439.44399999999996,"body":"about IRACDA programs and I applied for the one at"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":433.774,"endTime":439.44399999999996,"body":"Carolina and I worked for Bill Kier there. So Bill's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":439.44399999999996,"endTime":445.984,"body":"just retired recently. Carolina. He is a cephalopod"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":439.44399999999996,"endTime":445.984,"body":"specialist, so squid, octopus, cuttlefish and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":445.99399999999997,"endTime":452.044,"body":"nautilus. And I went to work with him on molecular"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":445.99399999999997,"endTime":452.044,"body":"biology of mussels and squid and octopus. Super fun."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":452.734,"endTime":459.364,"body":"But I remember talking to Bill on the phone when I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":452.734,"endTime":459.364,"body":"was thinking about applying. I said, Hey, Bill, what"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":459.364,"endTime":463.714,"body":"do you you know, what do you expect to me in this"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":459.364,"endTime":463.714,"body":"position? Because I'm coming from that super intense"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":463.714,"endTime":469.324,"body":"NIH kind of background a lot of stress. What do you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":463.714,"endTime":469.324,"body":"expect from me in the lab hours, things. And he"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":469.324,"endTime":475.34499999999997,"body":"pauses. I don't always thank Bill for this. He"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":469.324,"endTime":475.34499999999997,"body":"paused and he says, You know what? Justin I don't"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":475.34499999999997,"endTime":479.695,"body":"have a whole lot riding on ya, so you're going to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":475.34499999999997,"endTime":479.695,"body":"make this what you want. So I was like, music to my"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":479.695,"endTime":485.72499999999997,"body":"ears at this point. Yeah. So? So I went to Carolina."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":479.695,"endTime":485.72499999999997,"body":"My son was born there. My wife was there with me,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":486.145,"endTime":490.815,"body":"the program was so great because I got I did get to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":486.145,"endTime":490.815,"body":"work with Bill in the lab. I got to go squid fishing"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":490.815,"endTime":494.78499999999997,"body":"in Maine, super fun. But then I got trained in how"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":490.815,"endTime":494.78499999999997,"body":"to teach. So I got trained in evidence based"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":494.78499999999997,"endTime":500.635,"body":"pedagogies. I got trained in how to teach college"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":494.78499999999997,"endTime":500.635,"body":"science and engineering courses. Brian Rybarczyk, Ed"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":500.635,"endTime":506.35499999999996,"body":"Neal were fantastic. Parks The program that helped"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":500.635,"endTime":506.35499999999996,"body":"me, but that's also where I met Kelly Hogan. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":506.365,"endTime":511.705,"body":"without Kelly and without SPIRE, I wouldn't be here."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":506.365,"endTime":511.705,"body":"So I got to teach at North Carolina A\u0026C State"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":511.705,"endTime":516.9350000000001,"body":"University, which is in Greensboro, North Carolina."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":511.705,"endTime":516.9350000000001,"body":"I teach two semesters there, intro, bio and then a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":516.985,"endTime":522.385,"body":"recombinant protein class. Then I got to teach one"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":516.985,"endTime":522.385,"body":"semester at Carolina, the intro bio with Kelly and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":522.385,"endTime":527.845,"body":"Jean DeSaix, Corey Johnson, help me out with A\u0026P. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":522.385,"endTime":527.845,"body":"it was just such a great kind of proving ground for"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":527.845,"endTime":534.265,"body":"myself and that really springboarded me on the way"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":527.845,"endTime":534.265,"body":"to getting my first teaching position at UC Irvine,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":534.535,"endTime":538.795,"body":"getting my education research program up and running"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":534.535,"endTime":538.795,"body":"about high structure courses. And so they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":538.795,"endTime":543.9250000000001,"body":"wonderful programs. Whenever I find a grad student"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":538.795,"endTime":543.9250000000001,"body":"who's interested in a teaching path, I automatically"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":543.9250000000001,"endTime":547.885,"body":"send them to the IRACDA program as long as they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":543.9250000000001,"endTime":547.885,"body":"in the kind of biomedical sciences because they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":547.885,"endTime":553.075,"body":"funded by NIH. But there are there are other"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":547.885,"endTime":553.075,"body":"programs out there within STEM and even other fields."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":553.075,"endTime":554.755,"body":"If you're not in the biomedical side."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":556.8000000000001,"endTime":563.01,"body":"That's great. Yeah. And I just I think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":556.8000000000001,"endTime":563.01,"body":"that kind of exposure to discipline based"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":563.01,"endTime":568.35,"body":"educational research at that point, it's just it's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":563.01,"endTime":568.35,"body":"really it's huge. Right. And I've seen this in your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":568.35,"endTime":575.181,"body":"work, like it is just kind of shaped who you are as"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":568.35,"endTime":575.181,"body":"an academic. And so yeah, and Kelly Hogan was on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":575.181,"endTime":581.5110000000001,"body":"podcast before, so yeah, yeah, she does great work"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":575.181,"endTime":581.5110000000001,"body":"too. Can you remind me we had a conversation at the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":581.5110000000001,"endTime":585.1410000000001,"body":"POD conference last year. You said you went squid"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":581.5110000000001,"endTime":585.1410000000001,"body":"fishing in Maine."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":585.561,"endTime":585.9010000000001,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":586.431,"endTime":589.941,"body":"Wasn't there like a weird term you used"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":586.431,"endTime":589.941,"body":"to describe that process?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":591.052,"endTime":591.592,"body":"Oh, nuts."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":591.772,"endTime":594.202,"body":"Weird. Meaning maybe it's Maine jargon."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":594.8520000000001,"endTime":599.4820000000001,"body":"You know, I don't know if I had a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":594.8520000000001,"endTime":599.4820000000001,"body":"term for it, but it was it just wasn't a big deal to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":599.4820000000001,"endTime":606.082,"body":"the Maine folks. From what I remember, the Mainers,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":599.4820000000001,"endTime":606.082,"body":"I forget what they call people from Maine. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":606.442,"endTime":609.952,"body":"I thought when Bill told me where to go squid"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":606.442,"endTime":609.952,"body":"fishing, I'm thinking we're going on a boat, we're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":609.952,"endTime":614.7620000000001,"body":"going to the ocean. It's going to be cool. None of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":609.952,"endTime":614.7620000000001,"body":"that. So what you do is you just go to the little"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":614.812,"endTime":620.662,"body":"dock of the bay around midnight, so it's super dark"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":614.812,"endTime":620.662,"body":"and you just shine a flashlight into the water. And"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":621.3520000000001,"endTime":623.4920000000001,"body":"because the squid come up to the surface, this is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":621.3520000000001,"endTime":623.4920000000001,"body":"called"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":624.3620000000001,"endTime":629.3620000000001,"body":"doryteuthis pealeii, the North Atlantic longfin"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":624.3620000000001,"endTime":629.3620000000001,"body":"squid. And they come up to the surface to feed at"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":629.3620000000001,"endTime":633.822,"body":"night. And you shine that light in there. And you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":629.3620000000001,"endTime":633.822,"body":"can see these, but I'm doing it. My hand is kind of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":633.832,"endTime":638.272,"body":"jutting my hands out together like these sharp pads"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":633.832,"endTime":638.272,"body":"versus like a fish where you see the undulations. It"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":638.272,"endTime":641.2420000000001,"body":"doesn't they don't do that. So you can see them"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":638.272,"endTime":641.2420000000001,"body":"really clearly. I mean, just throw a net and then"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":641.2420000000001,"endTime":647.542,"body":"you scoop them out. So it's kind of anticlimactic."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":641.2420000000001,"endTime":647.542,"body":"But we're we're kind of in like a downtown area. And"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":647.542,"endTime":651.3520000000001,"body":"these people are walking around after leaving the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":647.542,"endTime":651.3520000000001,"body":"bar and they're just kind of looking at us like"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":652.042,"endTime":658.162,"body":"shrug and no big deal because that's what you do. I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":652.042,"endTime":658.162,"body":"guess. So yeah, there might be some term associated"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":658.162,"endTime":663.322,"body":"with it, but yeah, that was it was just kind of a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":658.162,"endTime":663.322,"body":"nonchalant business as usual on coastal Maine."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":663.9820000000001,"endTime":668.6320000000001,"body":"that's awesome. I love talking to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":663.9820000000001,"endTime":668.6320000000001,"body":"biologists because they they do such unusual things"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":668.6320000000001,"endTime":675.022,"body":"in their research. As a trained mathematician. I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":668.6320000000001,"endTime":675.022,"body":"just sit in a room, right? And sometimes I use a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":675.022,"endTime":679.3720000000001,"body":"whiteboard and sometimes I use paper and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":675.022,"endTime":679.3720000000001,"body":"occasionally I use a computer. But that's about it."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":680.744,"endTime":687.3140000000001,"body":"All right. Well, Justin, I think the first time we"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":680.744,"endTime":687.3140000000001,"body":"connected was after a webinar that I did for the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":687.3140000000001,"endTime":692.624,"body":"folks at Macmillan Publishing, and I think it was on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":687.3140000000001,"endTime":692.624,"body":"kind of more advanced uses of classroom response"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":692.624,"endTime":698.3240000000001,"body":"systems, which is something that we'll talk about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":692.624,"endTime":698.3240000000001,"body":"here today. And I shared an activity in that webinar"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":698.3240000000001,"endTime":704.058,"body":"that involved a set of coordinate axes, and I think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":698.3240000000001,"endTime":704.058,"body":"you liked that idea and you kind of took it and run"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":704.058,"endTime":710.118,"body":"with it, ran with it in your own courses. Could you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":704.058,"endTime":710.118,"body":"talk about kind of how you adapted that idea to your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":710.118,"endTime":712.398,"body":"courses and kind of what role that activity played?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":713.2080000000001,"endTime":717.438,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":713.2080000000001,"endTime":717.438,"body":"was, you know, about a year ago this time, actually,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":717.438,"endTime":724.368,"body":"I saw Derek on this webinar from McMillan about just"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":717.438,"endTime":724.368,"body":"that kind of promoting some different practices with"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":724.368,"endTime":729.428,"body":"clickers and other things. And so the activity you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":724.368,"endTime":729.428,"body":"proposed was you have to coordinate axis, so you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":729.428,"endTime":735.438,"body":"have four quadrants, right? And you can have then"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":729.428,"endTime":735.438,"body":"students touch the screen. And so these modern"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":735.558,"endTime":739.278,"body":"clicker technologies, whether it's iClicker, Top Hat,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":735.558,"endTime":739.278,"body":"you name it, they have the ability to touch the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":739.278,"endTime":744.288,"body":"screen. So you can pose a question, have students"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":739.278,"endTime":744.288,"body":"click somewhere to show kind of where they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":744.288,"endTime":748.668,"body":"landing. So instead of just, you know, 1 to 5 agree"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":744.288,"endTime":748.668,"body":"or disagree, you can actually get two dimensions."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":748.998,"endTime":755.148,"body":"And so the example I use now when I do workshops now"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":748.998,"endTime":755.148,"body":"for for faculty or or McMillan or anyone I do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":755.148,"endTime":761.1030000000001,"body":"iClicker workshops sometimes I show the axes of in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":755.148,"endTime":761.1030000000001,"body":"the context of biology. What are your views of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":761.1030000000001,"endTime":766.173,"body":"performance enhancing drugs? And I do this in my"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":761.1030000000001,"endTime":766.173,"body":"real intro bio class too, and we have on the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":766.173,"endTime":771.543,"body":"vertical axis, we have ethical at the top, unethical"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":766.173,"endTime":771.543,"body":"bottom. And then on the horizontal axis, we have the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":771.543,"endTime":777.123,"body":"positive impact to the body and then the left and is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":771.543,"endTime":777.123,"body":"negative in back to the body. So you can be, you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":777.123,"endTime":781.623,"body":"know, ethical and positive, the body unethical and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":777.123,"endTime":781.623,"body":"negative, the body, you know, any of those four"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":781.623,"endTime":787.2460000000001,"body":"options. And so great with doing this with iClickers"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":781.623,"endTime":787.2460000000001,"body":"or any software like this because then the students"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":787.2460000000001,"endTime":791.866,"body":"can touch the screen and you can see the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":787.2460000000001,"endTime":791.866,"body":"distribution of responses. And so as most students"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":791.866,"endTime":796.336,"body":"in this case pick unethical and negative impact. But"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":791.866,"endTime":796.336,"body":"then you got a couple that think that they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":796.336,"endTime":803.056,"body":"awesome. So then we can have a nice discussion about"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":796.336,"endTime":803.056,"body":"what's going on. But I took that idea and did it a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":803.056,"endTime":808.8860000000001,"body":"little bit differently is what you're referring to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":803.056,"endTime":808.8860000000001,"body":"with I Google Sheets or Excel, what you want to use."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":808.8860000000001,"endTime":815.2660000000001,"body":"So I made the axes and the colored in the cells on"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":808.8860000000001,"endTime":815.2660000000001,"body":"Excel or Google sheets, and then I had the two"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":815.2660000000001,"endTime":820.2460000000001,"body":"extremes. And so then I made it live in class so"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":815.2660000000001,"endTime":820.2460000000001,"body":"students could go in and edit the document and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":820.2460000000001,"endTime":827.416,"body":"instead of just clicking a place, what we did was,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":820.2460000000001,"endTime":827.416,"body":"is for intro bio, I had on the axes about benefits"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":827.416,"endTime":836.2040000000001,"body":"to society, positive and negative. And then also I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":827.416,"endTime":836.2040000000001,"body":"it was about the scientific kind of validity or"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":836.2040000000001,"endTime":840.764,"body":"reliability, like how promising is this technique,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":836.2040000000001,"endTime":840.764,"body":"you know, positive or negative. And then students"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":840.764,"endTime":844.9340000000001,"body":"would actually write in different concepts or"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":840.764,"endTime":844.9340000000001,"body":"different techniques. So they brought in like gene"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":844.9340000000001,"endTime":848.894,"body":"editing, they put in CRISPR, they took some of them"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":844.9340000000001,"endTime":848.894,"body":"put in PEDs, and so they put these different"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":848.894,"endTime":856.614,"body":"biological pieces or components or concepts on the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":848.894,"endTime":856.614,"body":"axes. So it was totally open ended. And then we I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":856.6740000000001,"endTime":860.3240000000001,"body":"put it up on the screen, we got to see where"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":856.6740000000001,"endTime":860.3240000000001,"body":"everyone putting them, you know, some students that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":860.3240000000001,"endTime":865.484,"body":"things were really ethical or positive, but then"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":860.3240000000001,"endTime":865.484,"body":"some they were more like CRISPR was kind of actually"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":865.484,"endTime":871.094,"body":"a few students put them in different places, so it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":865.484,"endTime":871.094,"body":"was cool. So we took that not a single forced"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":871.604,"endTime":876.254,"body":"coordinate axis closed question, But you can make it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":871.604,"endTime":876.254,"body":"super open ended to whatever you want. In that case,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":876.254,"endTime":881.384,"body":"by using the Google sheets or the live editing type"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":876.254,"endTime":881.384,"body":"group group docs."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":882.614,"endTime":888.974,"body":"Yeah. So that in that first example you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":882.614,"endTime":888.974,"body":"had, you had a topic in mind and you wanted to see"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":888.974,"endTime":894.134,"body":"where students where all of your students would"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":888.974,"endTime":894.134,"body":"place this one topic on these two different axes in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":894.134,"endTime":899.3240000000001,"body":"terms of how they thought about it qualitatively."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":894.134,"endTime":899.3240000000001,"body":"And I keep saying coordinate axes. This is not a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":899.3240000000001,"endTime":905.9240000000001,"body":"mathematical use of coordinate axes. This is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":899.3240000000001,"endTime":905.9240000000001,"body":"completely subjective. But in the second example,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":905.9240000000001,"endTime":910.604,"body":"each student is coming up with their own example of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":905.9240000000001,"endTime":910.604,"body":"something and then kind of mapping it somewhere on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":910.604,"endTime":917.417,"body":"those axes. And so I'm wondering what like in that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":910.604,"endTime":917.417,"body":"one, where does that come in the course and what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":917.417,"endTime":919.9970000000001,"body":"does it help you do in the classroom with your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":917.417,"endTime":919.9970000000001,"body":"students?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":920.796,"endTime":925.716,"body":"Yeah. So something like that, that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":920.796,"endTime":925.716,"body":"specific example was kind of the benefit society,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":925.716,"endTime":932.926,"body":"the ethics of the concept. I do that very early on"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":925.716,"endTime":932.926,"body":"in intro bio to kind of set the stage of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":932.946,"endTime":937.956,"body":"yeah, we're learning about biology in this course,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":932.946,"endTime":937.956,"body":"but we want to think about the societal impact of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":937.956,"endTime":943.176,"body":"the biology we're doing, the tools we're developing."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":937.956,"endTime":943.176,"body":"I think about the ethical situations involved with"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":943.176,"endTime":949.206,"body":"biology on society. So I kind of use it as a stage"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":943.176,"endTime":949.206,"body":"setting device, and usually I do that my second day"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":949.206,"endTime":953.556,"body":"in class, first day classes kind of welcome the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":949.206,"endTime":953.556,"body":"class. We do some other icebreaker activities, then"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":953.556,"endTime":957.8760000000001,"body":"we jump into the ethics. And even right now in my"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":953.556,"endTime":957.8760000000001,"body":"introduction to biomedical engineering course I'm"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":957.8760000000001,"endTime":961.926,"body":"teaching, same thing. The second day was about"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":957.8760000000001,"endTime":961.926,"body":"ethics, kind of trying to we're trying as a program"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":961.926,"endTime":966.066,"body":"here at Mines, which I am. I'm part of this program"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":961.926,"endTime":966.066,"body":"called Quantitative Bio Sciences and Engineering."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":966.066,"endTime":971.106,"body":"We're trying to make a more concerted ethics, a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":966.066,"endTime":971.106,"body":"concerted emphasis of ethics throughout our"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":971.106,"endTime":975.7860000000001,"body":"curriculum. So something like that can be used"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":971.106,"endTime":975.7860000000001,"body":"really anytime, though, you know. But that's when I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":975.7860000000001,"endTime":981.9060000000001,"body":"used it. I also teach anatomy physiology. I can"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":975.7860000000001,"endTime":981.9060000000001,"body":"imagine using something like that really in any unit"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":981.9060000000001,"endTime":986.616,"body":"when you're bringing up a disease or a treatment for"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":981.9060000000001,"endTime":986.616,"body":"a disease, how these students feel about different"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":986.616,"endTime":992.676,"body":"things, whether it's the open ended version or, like"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":986.616,"endTime":992.676,"body":"you said, posing the single question there, and then"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":992.676,"endTime":996.7860000000001,"body":"even thinking about in engineering, because I teach"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":992.676,"endTime":996.7860000000001,"body":"chemical engineering courses too, and I haven't"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":996.7860000000001,"endTime":1000.806,"body":"tried this one yet, I'm just kind of spitballing. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":996.7860000000001,"endTime":1000.806,"body":"maybe it doesn't come out too strong right now, but"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1001.046,"endTime":1006.7460000000001,"body":"thinking about kind of a cost benefit analysis is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1001.046,"endTime":1006.7460000000001,"body":"sort of a new device like so for designing a heat"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1006.7460000000001,"endTime":1011.846,"body":"exchanger and you have different things you need to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1006.7460000000001,"endTime":1011.846,"body":"tweak with the design, you know, so we can get we"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1011.846,"endTime":1017.5160000000001,"body":"can get better heat flow, but it costs more. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1011.846,"endTime":1017.5160000000001,"body":"So we kind of think of this coordinate access idea"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1017.5160000000001,"endTime":1021.836,"body":"again to kind of get students opinions on where"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1017.5160000000001,"endTime":1021.836,"body":"things might land. If we tweak the design a little"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1021.836,"endTime":1025.916,"body":"bit, what might happen to cost, what might happen to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1021.836,"endTime":1025.916,"body":"efficiency. And we kind of get some predictions"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1025.916,"endTime":1031.436,"body":"there and that might be more like a technical"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1025.916,"endTime":1031.436,"body":"specific example of this idea. But I could see that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1031.436,"endTime":1032.186,"body":"maybe that working too."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1033.448,"endTime":1037.95,"body":"We're at the University of Mississippi."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1033.448,"endTime":1037.95,"body":"We're actually putting together a workshop in a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1037.95,"endTime":1045.15,"body":"couple of weeks, we're calling it \"Yes And\" and it's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1037.95,"endTime":1045.15,"body":"about we're calling it pedagogical in improv"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1045.69,"endTime":1045.95,"body":"Love it."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1045.99,"endTime":1050.94,"body":"And so because I think what happens a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1045.99,"endTime":1050.94,"body":"lot of times is that and what as someone who leads a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1050.94,"endTime":1056.25,"body":"lot of workshops for faculty is that sometimes I'll"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1050.94,"endTime":1056.25,"body":"put some example or idea out there for something"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1056.25,"endTime":1060.4199999999998,"body":"they could do in their teaching. And sometimes"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1056.25,"endTime":1060.4199999999998,"body":"there's this kind of initial response of, Well, that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1060.4199999999998,"endTime":1063.6799999999998,"body":"wouldn't work in my class. And I think that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1065.8899999999999,"endTime":1070.06,"body":"on some levels that's true, right? The very thing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1065.8899999999999,"endTime":1070.06,"body":"that I describe would not make sense for your class,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1070.06,"endTime":1074.9499999999998,"body":"because it made sense for my class. But there are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1070.06,"endTime":1074.9499999999998,"body":"some ideas and some principles and maybe some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1074.9499999999998,"endTime":1080.3799999999999,"body":"technologies there that with a little creative"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1074.9499999999998,"endTime":1080.3799999999999,"body":"thinking, a little pedagogical improv, you can adapt"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1080.3799999999999,"endTime":1084.32,"body":"quite nicely to lots of different classes. And"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1080.3799999999999,"endTime":1084.32,"body":"that's what I heard from you just then was like,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1084.32,"endTime":1090.62,"body":"you're imagining the same basic teaching construct,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1084.32,"endTime":1090.62,"body":"but you're using it in different classes and for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1090.62,"endTime":1091.82,"body":"kind of different ends too."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1092.55,"endTime":1097.98,"body":"Yeah. And I try to push myself"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1092.55,"endTime":1097.98,"body":"further because I gave all STEM examples, right? And"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1097.98,"endTime":1103.35,"body":"you're talking about coordinate axis math to when it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1097.98,"endTime":1103.35,"body":"goes the non stem. I struggle a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1103.35,"endTime":1109.47,"body":"because it's not my background, but I always try to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1103.35,"endTime":1109.47,"body":"to make that that next step connection as well. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1109.47,"endTime":1113.1,"body":"one example that go with going back to these target"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1109.47,"endTime":1113.1,"body":"questions with clickers, right, so you can touch the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1113.1,"endTime":1117.99,"body":"screen. And so usually when I do demos I'll say Oh"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1113.1,"endTime":1117.99,"body":"well, or do workshop for faculty, I'll have a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1117.99,"endTime":1122.76,"body":"picture of the skull. Okay, So where is the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1117.99,"endTime":1122.76,"body":"occipital bone. super easy application of a target"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1122.76,"endTime":1127.71,"body":"question because you can touch on the skull where"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1122.76,"endTime":1127.71,"body":"the occipital bone is the back of your head. But"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1127.71,"endTime":1132.51,"body":"then I say, well, we any art historian in the room"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1127.71,"endTime":1132.51,"body":"and no one's corrected me on this, so I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1132.51,"endTime":1137.03,"body":"keep using this example. But, you know, let's say"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1132.51,"endTime":1137.03,"body":"you have a picture of a painting on the screen and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1137.03,"endTime":1142.34,"body":"you can say, okay, students, can you please touch"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1137.03,"endTime":1142.34,"body":"the screen where this specific painting strategy was"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1142.34,"endTime":1144.11,"body":"used? Or where do you notice this"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1145.85,"endTime":1150.71,"body":"concept that was present in the time of the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1145.85,"endTime":1150.71,"body":"painter's life was present? You're right. So you can"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1150.9199999999998,"endTime":1155.4499999999998,"body":"you can be creative in that field, too. You know,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1150.9199999999998,"endTime":1155.4499999999998,"body":"I'm even going to try it with passages of text soon."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1155.4499999999998,"endTime":1160.1299999999999,"body":"So I'm in next week. We're going to go in my intro"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1155.4499999999998,"endTime":1160.1299999999999,"body":"BME class about reading a journal article, and that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1160.1299999999999,"endTime":1164.72,"body":"could be reading anything about. Right? So you have"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1160.1299999999999,"endTime":1164.72,"body":"a passage of text. Can you can you touch the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1164.72,"endTime":1170.6299999999999,"body":"sentence or the first word the sentence where the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1164.72,"endTime":1170.6299999999999,"body":"thesis is, right? So you can use these types of tech"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1170.72,"endTime":1176.57,"body":"clicker tech in this example, in a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1170.72,"endTime":1176.57,"body":"disciplines, even though my brain goes stem world"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1176.57,"endTime":1182.21,"body":"because that's what I'm in. But yeah, you're right."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1176.57,"endTime":1182.21,"body":"And I love the yes and improv connection. I hope"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1182.21,"endTime":1184.85,"body":"that goes well for you. It makes so much sense, I'm"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1182.21,"endTime":1184.85,"body":"jealous."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1185.78,"endTime":1194.01,"body":"Yeah, it's going to be a fun workshop"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1185.78,"endTime":1194.01,"body":"regardless. I know that. So when you run an activity"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1194.01,"endTime":1200.34,"body":"like this, one of the things I talk about in my book"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1194.01,"endTime":1200.34,"body":"is is kind of a shift from what some have called"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1200.34,"endTime":1205.56,"body":"ballistic teaching. When you launch a lesson plan at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1200.34,"endTime":1205.56,"body":"the beginning of the hour, nothing can interfere"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1205.56,"endTime":1211.6699999999998,"body":"with its trajectory to a more agile form of teaching."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1205.56,"endTime":1211.6699999999998,"body":"So what does it look like in the classroom when"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1211.6699999999998,"endTime":1217.49,"body":"you're doing one of these activities and students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1211.6699999999998,"endTime":1217.49,"body":"are adding things to a Google sheet on a set of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1217.49,"endTime":1222.47,"body":"coordinated axes, What are you doing? What are they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1217.49,"endTime":1222.47,"body":"doing? What what does the discussion look like? How"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1222.53,"endTime":1226.1299999999999,"body":"does how do their ideas affect what happens in class"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1222.53,"endTime":1226.1299999999999,"body":"that day?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1226.76,"endTime":1230.6299999999999,"body":"Yes, wonderful question. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1226.76,"endTime":1230.6299999999999,"body":"then I think that's a great word, being agile,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1230.6299999999999,"endTime":1235.52,"body":"because you got to be nimble on your feet. If you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1230.6299999999999,"endTime":1235.52,"body":"have your lesson plan, which, you know, when you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1235.52,"endTime":1239.34,"body":"first start out teaching and even if you've been"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1235.52,"endTime":1239.34,"body":"doing it for a while, you might map it out, you know,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1239.36,"endTime":1244.8799999999999,"body":"with a kind of maybe five minute blocks, ten minute"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1239.36,"endTime":1244.8799999999999,"body":"blocks, maybe even a little bit more granular. You"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1244.8799999999999,"endTime":1249.59,"body":"can't trust that that right. You can use that as a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1244.8799999999999,"endTime":1249.59,"body":"guideline, but you don't really know if you're going"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1249.59,"endTime":1255.07,"body":"to hit that or not. And that's especially new with"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1249.59,"endTime":1255.07,"body":"true with a new prep. So in this BME class I'm"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1255.08,"endTime":1259.82,"body":"teaching now, biomedical engineers. First time I'm"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1255.08,"endTime":1259.82,"body":"doing it, I got my lesson and in an hour and a half"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1260.33,"endTime":1265.1299999999999,"body":"I know what I want to do. I got my slide deck. We'll"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1260.33,"endTime":1265.1299999999999,"body":"see, we'll see, you know, because you've got to do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1265.1299999999999,"endTime":1270.4399999999998,"body":"it first to feel it out. But it's okay. And I also"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1265.1299999999999,"endTime":1270.4399999999998,"body":"maybe now that I'm kind of 12 years into this"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1270.4399999999998,"endTime":1276.56,"body":"faculty career thing that I'm to the point where I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1270.4399999999998,"endTime":1276.56,"body":"don't get as flustered anymore. When things do go a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1276.56,"endTime":1282.71,"body":"little bit off, I'm okay if we get a little off"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1276.56,"endTime":1282.71,"body":"track, I'm okay if we don't finish as much as I want"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1282.71,"endTime":1287.84,"body":"to because I know it's going to be okay versus early"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1282.71,"endTime":1287.84,"body":"on, brand new instructors. And I would certainly do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1287.84,"endTime":1292.58,"body":"this myself. I would get a lot more worried about"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1287.84,"endTime":1292.58,"body":"getting through what I had to do, especially if"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1292.58,"endTime":1297.35,"body":"you're part of like a team or you all do the same"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1292.58,"endTime":1297.35,"body":"stuff like a multi section intro, bio class. So a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1297.35,"endTime":1302.75,"body":"lot more pressure if you're in to get through the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1297.35,"endTime":1302.75,"body":"material, right? But what happens is when you get an"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1302.75,"endTime":1308.48,"body":"activity like the one you're talking about, the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1302.75,"endTime":1308.48,"body":"Google Docs and the group sharing things, you just"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1308.48,"endTime":1312.26,"body":"kind of have to flow with it, let it breathe. You"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1308.48,"endTime":1312.26,"body":"know the first thing, though, when you're doing"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1312.26,"endTime":1318.02,"body":"anything like that is to make sure students can"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1312.26,"endTime":1318.02,"body":"actually do it and make sure the tech works. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1318.02,"endTime":1322.1,"body":"check your permissions, check the sharing settings."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1318.02,"endTime":1322.1,"body":"I've run into many problems where I don't have it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1322.1,"endTime":1326.6899999999998,"body":"right. It's like five hands go up, right? Well, okay,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1322.1,"endTime":1326.6899999999998,"body":"what did I do wrong? So make sure that works. But"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1326.6899999999998,"endTime":1329.84,"body":"then once they get into it, you got to give them a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1326.6899999999998,"endTime":1329.84,"body":"little time. You might only think, Oh, well, they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1329.84,"endTime":1333.9499999999998,"body":"going to look at this axis. It should only take them"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1329.84,"endTime":1333.9499999999998,"body":"a minute to find what they think, what they want to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1333.9499999999998,"endTime":1338.6299999999999,"body":"do and write down. But in reality, they're they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1333.9499999999998,"endTime":1338.6299999999999,"body":"orienting themselves to look to see what the actual"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1338.6299999999999,"endTime":1344.1499999999999,"body":"screen looks like. They'r thinking about what I want"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1338.6299999999999,"endTime":1344.1499999999999,"body":"to write. There might be thinking about do I want to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1344.1499999999999,"endTime":1347.9099999999999,"body":"be able to see what I'm writing? So and they're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1344.1499999999999,"endTime":1347.9099999999999,"body":"talking to each other too, because I do. This is a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1347.9299999999998,"endTime":1355.06,"body":"group activity, so you want to make sure that you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1347.9299999999998,"endTime":1355.06,"body":"give the time for the students to do it because it's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1355.1799999999998,"endTime":1360.1499999999999,"body":"going to take longer than you think. But then"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1355.1799999999998,"endTime":1360.1499999999999,"body":"depending on what you get, you like that. Like I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1360.1499999999999,"endTime":1364.32,"body":"said, you let that breathe, you know, so you might"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1360.1499999999999,"endTime":1364.32,"body":"might take a 10 minutes debriefing that if you get"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1364.32,"endTime":1368.79,"body":"some really cool ideas you've asked students to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1364.32,"endTime":1368.79,"body":"because this is how they don't no one knows who they"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1368.79,"endTime":1372.6,"body":"wrote. You might ask them, okay, is anyone willing"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1368.79,"endTime":1372.6,"body":"to tell us why you put this one way up here in the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1372.84,"endTime":1377.8799999999999,"body":"top right quadrant versus somewhere else? And we"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1372.84,"endTime":1377.8799999999999,"body":"kind of riff on that, go back and forth, and then"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1377.8799999999999,"endTime":1382.26,"body":"there's something like right on the line or maybe"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1377.8799999999999,"endTime":1382.26,"body":"maybe now we'll do a clicker question on the fly. Oh,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1382.26,"endTime":1385.74,"body":"look, there's one right in the middle. Do you guys"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1382.26,"endTime":1385.74,"body":"think it should be in the top right or the bottom?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1385.74,"endTime":1391.53,"body":"Right now we vote on it. So so you kind of use those"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1385.74,"endTime":1391.53,"body":"tools at your disposal to be flexible and coordinate"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1391.53,"endTime":1399.54,"body":"from there. And again, I think it is a longevity"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1391.53,"endTime":1399.54,"body":"thing from being an instructor that if you don't get"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1399.54,"endTime":1404.82,"body":"to something or something has to be dropped, it's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1399.54,"endTime":1404.82,"body":"not the end of the world. So so if something like I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1404.82,"endTime":1409.1999999999998,"body":"do an activity like that and we get to a really cool"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1404.82,"endTime":1409.1999999999998,"body":"discussion, I just let it go because I realize we're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1409.1999999999998,"endTime":1412.61,"body":"all into this now. But why do I need to cut this off"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1409.1999999999998,"endTime":1412.61,"body":"to get to something else?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1413.6,"endTime":1419.3899999999999,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. Well, that that also raises"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1413.6,"endTime":1419.3899999999999,"body":"a question. I get a lot from faculty who start to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1419.3899999999999,"endTime":1423.62,"body":"think about some of these interactive approaches in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1419.3899999999999,"endTime":1423.62,"body":"the classroom is like, how do you make the time for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1423.62,"endTime":1430.09,"body":"all of this? And so and I you've mentioned already"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1423.62,"endTime":1430.09,"body":"your research into high structure courses. So how do"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1430.09,"endTime":1437.35,"body":"you structure a course so that you have class time"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1430.09,"endTime":1437.35,"body":"available to do a rich activity like this and let it"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1437.35,"endTime":1438.1,"body":"breathe a little bit?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1438.79,"endTime":1443.74,"body":"Yeah, that's that's the great lead"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1438.79,"endTime":1443.74,"body":"in, so thanks, Derek. the high structure design. I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1443.74,"endTime":1448.72,"body":"mean, I couldn't do what I do without it and, you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1443.74,"endTime":1448.72,"body":"know, and I didn't invent this, you know, I wish I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1448.72,"endTime":1452.8899999999999,"body":"could claim that, you know, I'm writing a book on it."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1448.72,"endTime":1452.8899999999999,"body":"But again, I didn't come up with the term. So it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1452.8899999999999,"endTime":1461.06,"body":"really came out of biology, education, research in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1452.8899999999999,"endTime":1461.06,"body":"the kind of 2005 to 10 range. So Scott Freeman, Mary"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1461.06,"endTime":1466.1499999999999,"body":"Pat Wenderoth at UW were two of the early champions"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1461.06,"endTime":1466.1499999999999,"body":"in this and they published a lot on this including"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1466.1499999999999,"endTime":1471.1299999999999,"body":"in Science and even Science will sometimes publish"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1466.1499999999999,"endTime":1471.1299999999999,"body":"education stuff and one of Scott's really his papers"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1471.1299999999999,"endTime":1475.57,"body":"was there but the idea with high structure is and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1471.1299999999999,"endTime":1475.57,"body":"this is similar to things you'll hear from Kelly"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1475.57,"endTime":1480.04,"body":"Hogan and Viji Sathy talking about inclusive"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1475.57,"endTime":1480.04,"body":"teaching and structure is that we're just giving"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1480.04,"endTime":1487.57,"body":"students the scaffold to help manage their learning."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1480.04,"endTime":1487.57,"body":"And what I mean by that, well, you have some content,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1487.57,"endTime":1492.46,"body":"some things you move ahead of time. So you might"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1487.57,"endTime":1492.46,"body":"think, Well, yeah, we ask our students to read the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1492.46,"endTime":1496.36,"body":"book ahead of time, but do they actually do it?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1492.46,"endTime":1496.36,"body":"Probably not. There's a lot of literature that shows"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1496.36,"endTime":1500.8899999999999,"body":"they don't. There was one paper from econ that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1496.36,"endTime":1500.8899999999999,"body":"showed 6% of students actually do the pre class"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1500.8899999999999,"endTime":1504.82,"body":"reading when they're asked to do that was on the low"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1500.8899999999999,"endTime":1504.82,"body":"end. I think the high end I've seen it maybe 30%. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1504.82,"endTime":1511.48,"body":"it's still pretty low across fields, but if you do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1504.82,"endTime":1511.48,"body":"you know carefully developed pre class work which in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1511.48,"endTime":1517.87,"body":"my wheelhouse is pre class reading guides. So these"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1511.48,"endTime":1517.87,"body":"are Word documents that I make custom for my"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1523.54,"body":"materials for my book, my video, whatever I'm using."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1523.54,"body":"And by my book and videos, I mean, you know, my"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1523.54,"endTime":1529.0,"body":"textbook or Khan Academy videos, not stuff that I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1523.54,"endTime":1529.0,"body":"actually write, but these are just the word docs"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1529.0,"endTime":1533.53,"body":"that students will follow along with. They answer"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1529.0,"endTime":1533.53,"body":"questions, they define terms, they fill out tables,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1533.53,"endTime":1537.07,"body":"they draw pictures, whatever it might be. But it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1533.53,"endTime":1537.07,"body":"helps me be really transparent with my students"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1537.07,"endTime":1541.24,"body":"about what I want them to know, because I always"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1537.07,"endTime":1541.24,"body":"tell my students, I want to know what you know, what"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1541.24,"endTime":1545.77,"body":"you think I want you to know. And the reading guide"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1541.24,"endTime":1545.77,"body":"is the first crack at that transparency. So they do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1545.77,"endTime":1549.52,"body":"that. They do some kind of pre class assessment."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1545.77,"endTime":1549.52,"body":"This is really important too. So having a formative"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1549.52,"endTime":1554.83,"body":"assessment before a class on the reading or the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1549.52,"endTime":1554.83,"body":"watching or whatever they're doing, so important"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1554.83,"endTime":1559.77,"body":"because if there's no carrot or some students might"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1554.83,"endTime":1559.77,"body":"think of as a stick with a quiz, unfortunately they"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1559.77,"endTime":1564.6699999999998,"body":"don't do it. So you have some kind of threshold that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1559.77,"endTime":1564.6699999999998,"body":"they have to meet before class. I give you usually"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1564.6699999999998,"endTime":1569.53,"body":"three, if not unlimited attempts to do this. You get"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1564.6699999999998,"endTime":1569.53,"body":"to see the right answer. So it's very low stakes"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1569.53,"endTime":1573.49,"body":"just to check because I want them to have the same"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1569.53,"endTime":1573.49,"body":"foundation coming in. Right. So you do the reading,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1573.6699999999998,"endTime":1578.8,"body":"the reading guide, watch the excuse me, do the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1573.6699999999998,"endTime":1578.8,"body":"reading questions before class. I do that on Canvas"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1578.8,"endTime":1584.4399999999998,"body":"or something. Then we get to class. Now, I don't"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1578.8,"endTime":1584.4399999999998,"body":"have to cover all the basic stuff. Getting back to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1584.4399999999998,"endTime":1588.9399999999998,"body":"your question, right, So good example I like to say"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1584.4399999999998,"endTime":1588.9399999999998,"body":"for this is the cell. So we're teaching it at the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1588.9399999999998,"endTime":1593.3899999999999,"body":"cell in intro bio. You know, you got your list of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1588.9399999999998,"endTime":1593.3899999999999,"body":"organelles. Those of you might be flashing back to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1593.83,"endTime":1599.05,"body":"biology right now, but you think all the different"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1593.83,"endTime":1599.05,"body":"parts of the cell I don't have to lecture and point"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1599.05,"endTime":1603.55,"body":"to on the slide. That's mitochondria. Here's what it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1599.05,"endTime":1603.55,"body":"does. That's the golgi. That's what it does. Because"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1603.55,"endTime":1608.1699999999998,"body":"you've done that ahead of time. You read about it or"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1603.55,"endTime":1608.1699999999998,"body":"you watch the video. You did a matching exercise on"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1608.1699999999998,"endTime":1615.53,"body":"canvas. Instead. I can say,Oh , here's a a cellular"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1608.1699999999998,"endTime":1615.53,"body":"disease, here's what it does, here's the genetics of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1615.53,"endTime":1622.32,"body":"it. Which organelle do you think is responsible? so"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1615.53,"endTime":1622.32,"body":"we can apply what you read. So I'm still assessing"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1622.33,"endTime":1627.6599999999999,"body":"you on organelle, structure and function basically,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1622.33,"endTime":1627.6599999999999,"body":"but I'm doing it in a in a much more relevant"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1627.8799999999999,"endTime":1634.24,"body":"medical application, higher level way. Now I'll take"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1627.8799999999999,"endTime":1634.24,"body":"time to talk. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an anti"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1634.23,"endTime":1640.51,"body":"lecture guy I talk in class, but I came up with I'm"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1634.23,"endTime":1640.51,"body":"still workshopping this term, Derek, so feel free to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1640.71,"endTime":1645.76,"body":"poo-poo it but I've come up with this term of when"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1640.71,"endTime":1645.76,"body":"you want to when you want to lecture in class with"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1645.75,"endTime":1650.62,"body":"this high structure model, but you're not lecturing"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1645.75,"endTime":1650.62,"body":"on the basic stuff. You're you're carefully"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1650.62,"endTime":1656.6499999999999,"body":"selecting what you're lecturing about. So I call it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1650.62,"endTime":1656.6499999999999,"body":"selecturing. So I'm going to there you go thank you."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1657.1399999999999,"endTime":1664.75,"body":"So I'm going to selecture on certain topics that I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1657.1399999999999,"endTime":1664.75,"body":"know are going to cause trouble that I know are"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1664.74,"endTime":1670.1999999999998,"body":"difficult to comprehend or I know need clarification"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1664.74,"endTime":1670.1999999999998,"body":"based on the pre class work. Right? So so there's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1670.1999999999998,"endTime":1676.32,"body":"still talking going on, but with a lot of active"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1670.1999999999998,"endTime":1676.32,"body":"learning around it. And that could be in the form of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1676.33,"endTime":1681.8799999999999,"body":"clickers problem solving group work, case studies,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1676.33,"endTime":1681.8799999999999,"body":"you name it. But yeah, but so long answer, very long"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1681.8799999999999,"endTime":1685.9499999999998,"body":"answer to your question. In order to be able to do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1681.8799999999999,"endTime":1685.9499999999998,"body":"some of this stuff and let it breathe, you got to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1686.11,"endTime":1691.07,"body":"move some stuff ahead of time. And that is a huge"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1686.11,"endTime":1691.07,"body":"question I get when I work with faculty on high"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1691.09,"endTime":1694.8,"body":"structure. I do workshops on high structure it, you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1691.09,"endTime":1694.8,"body":"know, how do I have the time to cover all this stuff"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1694.81,"endTime":1698.78,"body":"but still do the active learning that you're talking"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1694.81,"endTime":1698.78,"body":"about? Well, that's it. You move some of it ahead of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1698.78,"endTime":1698.82,"body":"time."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1700.0,"endTime":1703.84,"body":"Yeah. That reminds me of another"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1700.0,"endTime":1703.84,"body":"principle I talk about in my book, which is creating"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1703.87,"endTime":1711.1599999999999,"body":"times for telling. So when students walk in the door,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1703.87,"endTime":1711.1599999999999,"body":"even if they've done the pre class work, they may"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1711.1599999999999,"endTime":1717.9499999999998,"body":"not be ready for that selecture of yours right? Like"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1711.1599999999999,"endTime":1717.9499999999998,"body":"you've still got to do some work to get them to the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1717.9499999999998,"endTime":1723.1999999999998,"body":"point where they are going to be ready to understand"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1717.9499999999998,"endTime":1723.1999999999998,"body":"and want to hear that explanation of that harder"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1723.1999999999998,"endTime":1727.76,"body":"thing. Right. And that's where the activity comes."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1723.1999999999998,"endTime":1727.76,"body":"The experience comes to get them to the point where"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1727.76,"endTime":1733.76,"body":"they've they've maybe made some predictions. They've"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1727.76,"endTime":1733.76,"body":"they've surfaced some prior knowledge. Right now."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1733.76,"endTime":1739.34,"body":"They've they've they've got everything primed to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1733.76,"endTime":1739.34,"body":"understand your five or ten minute lecture, which"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1739.34,"endTime":1745.73,"body":"wouldn't have happened if they just kind of come in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1739.34,"endTime":1745.73,"body":"cold or. Yeah. The other thing I suspect about you,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1745.73,"endTime":1750.53,"body":"when you gave that example of a, you know, here's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1745.73,"endTime":1750.53,"body":"some kind of disease that's coming in which cell"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1750.53,"endTime":1755.6399999999999,"body":"organelle is going to be affected here, You don't"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1750.53,"endTime":1755.6399999999999,"body":"mean that rhetorically, do you? You're actually"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1755.6399999999999,"endTime":1760.53,"body":"going to poll your students and ask them vote on one"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1755.6399999999999,"endTime":1760.53,"body":"of these five options, right?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1760.98,"endTime":1765.4499999999998,"body":"Correct. You're correct. Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1760.98,"endTime":1765.4499999999998,"body":"And this goes back to your Agile comment, because if"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1765.4499999999998,"endTime":1772.74,"body":"I give a question like that and oh Tay-Sachs disease"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1765.4499999999998,"endTime":1772.74,"body":"is a good one, Tay-Sachs is a is a disorder where"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1772.9199999999998,"endTime":1778.74,"body":"the chloride channel and the lining, especially of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1772.9199999999998,"endTime":1778.74,"body":"the lungs and other respiratory tissues is affected"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1778.74,"endTime":1784.35,"body":"so that you get a mucus buildup. And it's very"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1778.74,"endTime":1784.35,"body":"devastating disease. It's related to transport of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1784.8,"endTime":1790.3799999999999,"body":"chloride ions across the membrane. So students need"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1784.8,"endTime":1790.3799999999999,"body":"to understand about membranes and proteins that go"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1790.3799999999999,"endTime":1794.22,"body":"into the membrane are made by the endoplasmic"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1790.3799999999999,"endTime":1794.22,"body":"reticulum. So I'll pose that question about, okay,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1794.22,"endTime":1798.96,"body":"well, here's a description of Tay-Sachs. It's a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1794.22,"endTime":1798.96,"body":"defect due to a mutation of the transport protein in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1798.96,"endTime":1802.98,"body":"the membrane which organelle these things are most"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1798.96,"endTime":1802.98,"body":"affected. And that's a literal question. Clicker"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1802.98,"endTime":1808.4099999999999,"body":"question for me, right? So I get to see the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1802.98,"endTime":1808.4099999999999,"body":"responses. If I got 95% correct, great. You got the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1808.4099999999999,"endTime":1811.9199999999998,"body":"reading. You're able to apply that. Well, it's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1808.4099999999999,"endTime":1811.9199999999998,"body":"usually not that high. That one's probably like in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1811.9199999999998,"endTime":1819.1799999999998,"body":"the fifties, you know. So that's a great opportunity"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1811.9199999999998,"endTime":1819.1799999999998,"body":"then to be adaptable to the moment.Maybe  if it's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1819.1799999999998,"endTime":1824.04,"body":"5050 or 50, 25, 25, we turn that to a peer"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1819.1799999999998,"endTime":1824.04,"body":"instruction moment, have a talk and then click in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1824.04,"endTime":1830.76,"body":"again, I love doing that. Or if you know, again from"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1824.04,"endTime":1830.76,"body":"experience as instructor, you know how much time is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1830.76,"endTime":1834.27,"body":"what's going on with the clock. S, you know, maybe"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1830.76,"endTime":1834.27,"body":"it's 5050, but you realize I don't have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1834.27,"endTime":1839.3799999999999,"body":"time. Okay, well, good. Let's talk about this now."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1834.27,"endTime":1839.3799999999999,"body":"Let me explain it. Or if I had time, I'll call on"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1839.6399999999999,"endTime":1845.46,"body":"who from endoplasmic reticulum wants to talk versus"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1839.6399999999999,"endTime":1845.46,"body":"who from lysosome wants to talk. And we'll debate it"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1845.46,"endTime":1850.1999999999998,"body":"a little bit. So you got to be agile on your feet."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1845.46,"endTime":1850.1999999999998,"body":"But yeah, you got to have the data to do that. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1850.1999999999998,"endTime":1857.73,"body":"you know, just asking to the show hands or just"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1850.1999999999998,"endTime":1857.73,"body":"asking for a few responses doesn't give you the full"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1857.73,"endTime":1861.75,"body":"feel. That's why I like polling technology so much,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1857.73,"endTime":1861.75,"body":"because you get everyone to everyone to chime in and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1861.75,"endTime":1865.1399999999999,"body":"not let you dictate the direction of the lesson"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1861.75,"endTime":1865.1399999999999,"body":"where you need to go."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1865.83,"endTime":1871.23,"body":"MM Yeah. And you know, I used to tell"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1865.83,"endTime":1871.23,"body":"folks like, if you're coming from a full on lecture"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1871.23,"endTime":1876.33,"body":"model and you're trying to kind of add some of these"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1871.23,"endTime":1876.33,"body":"interactions, think about the rhetorical questions"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1876.33,"endTime":1881.34,"body":"you ask and, and like, could you turn it into an"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1876.33,"endTime":1881.34,"body":"actual question where you really do want to hear"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1881.34,"endTime":1886.26,"body":"what everyone says? Often we ask those rhetorical"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1881.34,"endTime":1886.26,"body":"questions where because we're trying to kind of lead"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1886.26,"endTime":1889.8,"body":"students to a certain thought process and we want"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1886.26,"endTime":1889.8,"body":"them to kind of get to the next thing."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1891.51,"endTime":1896.58,"body":"But, you know, we give them 4 seconds to think about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1891.51,"endTime":1896.58,"body":"it if that, and then we give them the answer. Right?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1896.58,"endTime":1901.1699999999998,"body":"And so that's the rhetorical part about it. Like"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1896.58,"endTime":1901.1699999999998,"body":"like it's just it's not it's not a genuine question."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1901.6899999999998,"endTime":1906.96,"body":"I remember one study (sorry to talk"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1901.6899999999998,"endTime":1906.96,"body":"over you). I remember it was one study I saw about"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1906.96,"endTime":1911.9399999999998,"body":"the time. I think the average was one second. I saw"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1906.96,"endTime":1911.9399999999998,"body":"for for how long people wait. Yeah. So that's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1911.9399999999998,"endTime":1916.83,"body":"something you can definitely work on with people is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1911.9399999999998,"endTime":1916.83,"body":"letting not only the topic conversation go, but"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1916.83,"endTime":1921.06,"body":"letting giving yourself time to count to five"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1916.83,"endTime":1921.06,"body":"Mississippi in your head before you move on. But"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1921.06,"endTime":1923.55,"body":"turning that rhetorical into a real question, I love"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1921.06,"endTime":1923.55,"body":"that idea."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1924.23,"endTime":1928.1599999999999,"body":"Yeah, because often we're asking that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1924.23,"endTime":1928.1599999999999,"body":"because it is a good question, right? But students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1928.1899999999998,"endTime":1936.29,"body":"need the time to process that and come up with a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1928.1899999999998,"endTime":1936.29,"body":"conjecture of some answer. Yeah. The other thing"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1936.35,"endTime":1943.55,"body":"I've heard about the all that pre classwork is that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1936.35,"endTime":1943.55,"body":"you probably see this where your students come in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1943.55,"endTime":1947.4499999999998,"body":"with varying levels of background in the course that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1943.55,"endTime":1947.4499999999998,"body":"you're teaching. Right. We see this in math all the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1947.4499999999998,"endTime":1951.8,"body":"time where half my students in calculus have had"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1947.4499999999998,"endTime":1951.8,"body":"calculus in high school and half of them haven't."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1952.22,"endTime":1955.61,"body":"And of the ones who had it, some of them actually"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1952.22,"endTime":1955.61,"body":"learn something and some of them didn't. And so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1955.61,"endTime":1960.8799999999999,"body":"they're kind of all over the background, all over in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1955.61,"endTime":1960.8799999999999,"body":"terms of their background knowledge. But I find that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1960.8799999999999,"endTime":1965.74,"body":"giving a nice pre class assignment helps to level"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1960.8799999999999,"endTime":1965.74,"body":"that just a little bit. Right? Everyone has at least"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1965.74,"endTime":1972.36,"body":"had this one pre class thing to work through, so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1965.74,"endTime":1972.36,"body":"they're not coming in at wherever they were on"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1972.36,"endTime":1977.1899999999998,"body":"August 1st. They're coming in with a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1972.36,"endTime":1977.1899999999998,"body":"actual instruction in this material. And I think it"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1977.4299999999998,"endTime":1982.9199999999998,"body":"I think it helps kind of invite more students to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1977.4299999999998,"endTime":1982.9199999999998,"body":"participate in those in-class activities because"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1982.9199999999998,"endTime":1987.51,"body":"they've had a chance to to kind of come up with"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1982.9199999999998,"endTime":1987.51,"body":"something. They're not coming in as cold as they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1987.51,"endTime":1987.96,"body":"might be."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1989.01,"endTime":1993.9299999999998,"body":"Yeah, 100% agree. It's kind of like"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1989.01,"endTime":1993.9299999999998,"body":"saying that norm for the day. Here's what you need"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1993.9299999999998,"endTime":1998.9099999999999,"body":"to be at. And that's definitely true in math,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1993.9299999999998,"endTime":1998.9099999999999,"body":"chemistry, biology. Some of my students haven't had"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1998.9099999999999,"endTime":2003.59,"body":"since ninth grade, so they've got four full years or"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":1998.9099999999999,"endTime":2003.59,"body":"even longer since they've seen anything biology"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2003.59,"endTime":2009.1999999999998,"body":"related. But even if it's true, like I teach this"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2003.59,"endTime":2009.1999999999998,"body":"class called Material Energy Balances, which is our"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2009.1999999999998,"endTime":2014.1499999999999,"body":"sophomore year chemical engineering class, it's kind"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2009.1999999999998,"endTime":2014.1499999999999,"body":"of our first real chemical engineering course,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2014.51,"endTime":2018.05,"body":"higher level than anything they were taking. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2014.51,"endTime":2018.05,"body":"that's brand new to everybody. So it's important to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2018.05,"endTime":2023.48,"body":"have that level setting no matter what the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2018.05,"endTime":2023.48,"body":"background is. And also, though, making some of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2023.48,"endTime":2027.47,"body":"these assignments really flexible or optional is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2023.48,"endTime":2027.47,"body":"important. So the reading guides I mentioned, I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2027.47,"endTime":2033.53,"body":"don't collect those, I don't grade those because I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2027.47,"endTime":2033.53,"body":"did it once. So I've learned from my mistake is that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2033.53,"endTime":2039.32,"body":"when you have my. Yeah, right. That's what we all do."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2033.53,"endTime":2039.32,"body":"My my daughter's former kindergarten teacher would"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2039.32,"endTime":2043.31,"body":"tell her and tell her classmates, You know, when you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2039.32,"endTime":2043.31,"body":"make a mistake, your brain gets bigger. So I like to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2043.31,"endTime":2050.75,"body":"think that too. But I tried making them required and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2043.31,"endTime":2050.75,"body":"students. I don't want to use the word revolt in a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2050.75,"endTime":2054.83,"body":"strong way, but they didn't like that because they"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2050.75,"endTime":2054.83,"body":"felt like, well, just more something more to do."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2054.83,"endTime":2059.33,"body":"It's another thing to check off the list. But when"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2054.83,"endTime":2059.33,"body":"you have them optional and you show data. So I have"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2059.33,"endTime":2065.54,"body":"a paper in CBE showing the efficacy of using reading"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2059.33,"endTime":2065.54,"body":"guides before class on student learning. I think"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2065.54,"endTime":2069.95,"body":"they buy in a lot more so. But if students are if"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2065.54,"endTime":2069.95,"body":"they really need the prep work, they're going to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2069.95,"endTime":2073.55,"body":"spend a lot of time on that. They're going to read"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2069.95,"endTime":2073.55,"body":"it very carefully and answer everything, do all the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2073.55,"endTime":2078.02,"body":"activities. But if you had a student took AP bio"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2073.55,"endTime":2078.02,"body":"last year, which in some cases is like three months"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2078.02,"endTime":2082.64,"body":"ago, because now it's August versus May, they don't"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2078.02,"endTime":2082.64,"body":"need to do that work and that's cool. They can do"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2082.64,"endTime":2086.64,"body":"the reading questions. They still know the content"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2082.64,"endTime":2086.64,"body":"based on the questions that I want them prepare for"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2086.67,"endTime":2090.2599999999998,"body":"and then they can jump right in the class. So it's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2086.67,"endTime":2090.2599999999998,"body":"helping kind of level that playing field, like you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2090.2599999999998,"endTime":2094.73,"body":"said, and accounting for different background"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2090.2599999999998,"endTime":2094.73,"body":"differences, which totally exists across the board"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2094.73,"endTime":2098.7799999999997,"body":"no matter what discipline you're in. And I think"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2094.73,"endTime":2098.7799999999997,"body":"we're seeing that exacerbated here in recent years."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2098.7799999999997,"endTime":2104.63,"body":"Now, as these students have gone through high school"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2098.7799999999997,"endTime":2104.63,"body":"with a lot of online classes and remote classes and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2105.08,"endTime":2108.11,"body":"there's been a lot what's the term they use,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2105.08,"endTime":2108.11,"body":"learning loss, You know, a lot of issues that have"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2108.11,"endTime":2113.99,"body":"happened. So we at Mines I feel like we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2108.11,"endTime":2113.99,"body":"we're in a good place. Our students are doing really"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2113.99,"endTime":2118.37,"body":"well. Overall. There's definitely still individuals"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2113.99,"endTime":2118.37,"body":"we're helping out more. But I've heard other"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2118.37,"endTime":2123.89,"body":"universities that issues been getting worse and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2118.37,"endTime":2123.89,"body":"worse with the preparation level. So having that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2123.89,"endTime":2128.54,"body":"high structure model, having that baseline before"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2123.89,"endTime":2128.54,"body":"class to get them ready, being flexible with your"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2128.54,"endTime":2132.72,"body":"assignments, and then just being there as an"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2128.54,"endTime":2132.72,"body":"instructor too. And that's the other secret, not"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2132.77,"endTime":2139.0699999999997,"body":"really secret to this, but one thing that Scott"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2132.77,"endTime":2139.0699999999997,"body":"published recently, I believe is 2020 paper, they"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2139.0699999999997,"endTime":2144.59,"body":"talk about the heads and hearts hypothesis for high"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2139.0699999999997,"endTime":2144.59,"body":"structure and active learning specifically. So it's"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2144.59,"endTime":2149.96,"body":"not just implementing these evidence based practices"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2144.59,"endTime":2149.96,"body":"in the class of high structure of active learning."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2150.74,"endTime":2155.09,"body":"Now I'm getting more into authentic assessment too,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2150.74,"endTime":2155.09,"body":"which is really fun in my classes, but it's not just"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2155.09,"endTime":2159.92,"body":"doing it, but it's having that compassionate piece"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2155.09,"endTime":2159.92,"body":"of instructor, too, that you got to be there. You"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2159.93,"endTime":2164.27,"body":"got to care, right? And I think we all do as"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2159.93,"endTime":2164.27,"body":"educators, we're there for a reason or we want to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2164.9,"endTime":2170.15,"body":"chose this career path. We want to teach. But you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2164.9,"endTime":2170.15,"body":"have to explain that to your students. So you have"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2170.15,"endTime":2175.16,"body":"to show that you know that you're there for them."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2170.15,"endTime":2175.16,"body":"You're there to support them and being flexible with"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2175.16,"endTime":2180.0499999999997,"body":"them. So having that compassion or caring side, the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2175.16,"endTime":2180.0499999999997,"body":"heart side of that, that piece of the pie seems to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2180.0499999999997,"endTime":2184.31,"body":"matter to when you're implementing these types of"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2180.0499999999997,"endTime":2184.31,"body":"practices and hopefully being an effective"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2184.31,"endTime":2184.8199999999997,"body":"instructor."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2186.34,"endTime":2192.37,"body":"Yeah. And that that means that that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2186.34,"endTime":2192.37,"body":"not always space that STEM faculty are comfortable"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2192.37,"endTime":2197.98,"body":"kind of talking in. But, but that but there are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2192.37,"endTime":2197.98,"body":"really tangible steps you can take as an instructor"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2197.98,"endTime":2203.34,"body":"to signal to your students that you are interested"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2197.98,"endTime":2203.34,"body":"in their success. You want them to learn. You want"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2203.34,"endTime":2208.89,"body":"them to do well. You don't have to be all touchy"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2203.34,"endTime":2208.89,"body":"feely about it. You can can be kind of structural"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2208.89,"endTime":2210.93,"body":"about it, and I think there's a lot of value there."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2211.77,"endTime":2218.0699999999997,"body":"I agree. And I'm not that touchy"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2211.77,"endTime":2218.0699999999997,"body":"feely guy for sure. Yeah, I'm not really. I, I will"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2218.22,"endTime":2222.42,"body":"help you out however I can, but I don't put that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2218.22,"endTime":2222.42,"body":"kind of emotional side front. But but you know"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2222.7799999999997,"endTime":2228.18,"body":"something as easy as using their names, right? I"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2222.7799999999997,"endTime":2228.18,"body":"still am shocked by how many students tell me you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2228.2999999999997,"endTime":2233.5499999999997,"body":"took the time to learn my name. Like, that's such an"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2228.2999999999997,"endTime":2233.5499999999997,"body":"easy thing. Even if you have 60 or 100. I know"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2233.5499999999997,"endTime":2237.81,"body":"you're you might not learn everyone's you might have."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2233.5499999999997,"endTime":2237.81,"body":"I used to teach 440. I didn't know everyone. Believe"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2237.81,"endTime":2242.1,"body":"me. But, you know, just asking their name in class,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2237.81,"endTime":2242.1,"body":"right? Even if it's weeks seven and they haven't"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2242.1,"endTime":2246.27,"body":"responded like, Oh, what's your name again? You know,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2242.1,"endTime":2246.27,"body":"and just having helping out with that, that's one"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2246.27,"endTime":2251.88,"body":"little thing. Doing a mid-course survey where you're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2246.27,"endTime":2251.88,"body":"asking students, how are things going so far? And"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2251.88,"endTime":2257.52,"body":"then responding to that feedback to show that you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2251.88,"endTime":2257.52,"body":"value their opinion. Actually in class on Friday,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2257.52,"endTime":2261.24,"body":"I'm going to try this for the first time, going back"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2257.52,"endTime":2261.24,"body":"to the target question idea, I'm going to have the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2261.54,"endTime":2267.24,"body":"Emoji Emotion panel up with all like 12 different"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2261.54,"endTime":2267.24,"body":"emoji faces. I'm going to say, Oh, how are you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2267.24,"endTime":2272.73,"body":"feeling about our class so far?Click  the face that"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2267.24,"endTime":2272.73,"body":"represents you. So just in, this is week three for"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2272.73,"endTime":2278.19,"body":"us. So I'm just doing little things like that and"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2272.73,"endTime":2278.19,"body":"you don't have to again, kind of show that super"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2278.19,"endTime":2283.7999999999997,"body":"emotional side of your persona if that's not who you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2278.19,"endTime":2283.7999999999997,"body":"are. And I'm not. I'm very in class, I'm very"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2283.7999999999997,"endTime":2289.68,"body":"extroverted, I'm very excited, I'm very enthusiastic."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2283.7999999999997,"endTime":2289.68,"body":"But inside I'm actually very introverted. You know,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2289.68,"endTime":2294.45,"body":"you ask me to return some thing to Kohl's, I'll say."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2289.68,"endTime":2294.45,"body":"No, I can't do that, you know, But in front of the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2294.45,"endTime":2298.2599999999998,"body":"class, I'm a different person. It's kind of like an"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2294.45,"endTime":2298.2599999999998,"body":"act, you know? But yeah, but you're right. You're"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2298.2599999999998,"endTime":2303.42,"body":"right. And you got to, as an instructor, you got to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2298.2599999999998,"endTime":2303.42,"body":"play to your strengths. And no matter what you are"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2303.42,"endTime":2308.58,"body":"on that introvert extrovert spectrum and just make"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2303.42,"endTime":2308.58,"body":"sure you communicate the value of what you're doing."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2309.18,"endTime":2311.04,"body":"And then using structure helps with that."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2311.66,"endTime":2314.93,"body":"Yeah. And the other thing I think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2311.66,"endTime":2314.93,"body":"that's true about structure, you mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2314.93,"endTime":2321.95,"body":"learning loss that happened as a result of perhaps"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2314.93,"endTime":2321.95,"body":"some less than optimal learning that happened during"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2321.95,"endTime":2327.74,"body":"the COVID 19 pandemic. I think there's also a lot of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2321.95,"endTime":2327.74,"body":"students who missed a year or two of learning how to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2327.74,"endTime":2334.52,"body":"learn. And and this was true before the pandemic,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2327.74,"endTime":2334.52,"body":"right? We'd students coming to college who had maybe"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2334.52,"endTime":2338.21,"body":"done well in high school and had kind of figured out"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2334.52,"endTime":2338.21,"body":"certain strategies that worked well in that learning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2338.21,"endTime":2342.0499999999997,"body":"environment. But but they need a different set of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2338.21,"endTime":2342.0499999999997,"body":"learning skills in college. I think that's been"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2342.0499999999997,"endTime":2348.41,"body":"exacerbated by the the remote teaching and such. But"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2342.0499999999997,"endTime":2348.41,"body":"I think that's another that's another reason to lean"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2348.41,"endTime":2353.39,"body":"into high structure because you're giving your"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2348.41,"endTime":2353.39,"body":"students that scaffold they need if they don't know"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2353.39,"endTime":2359.21,"body":"how to succeed in a college level course in biology"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2353.39,"endTime":2359.21,"body":"or engineering. Right. You're you're, you're guiding"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2359.21,"endTime":2365.2999999999997,"body":"them through a set of activities and practices that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2359.21,"endTime":2365.2999999999997,"body":"will help them learn the material. But if they can"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2365.2999999999997,"endTime":2369.44,"body":"continue to do those practices, it's going to help"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2365.2999999999997,"endTime":2369.44,"body":"them succeed in other. Courses as well."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2369.92,"endTime":2375.92,"body":"Exactly, because you can continue on."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2369.92,"endTime":2375.92,"body":"And I've had students tell their the follow up class,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2375.92,"endTime":2380.12,"body":"they ask the instructor where the reading guides at?"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2375.92,"endTime":2380.12,"body":"and they come to me like, what's this about? You"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2380.12,"endTime":2386.27,"body":"know, so not in a bad way or anything, but, but, but,"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2380.12,"endTime":2386.27,"body":"but I like to think about with high structure is, is"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2386.27,"endTime":2391.22,"body":"that it helps students develop self-regulated"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2386.27,"endTime":2391.22,"body":"learning. It helps students be more metacognitive"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2391.22,"endTime":2396.7599999999998,"body":"because there's so many check in points. So I have"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2391.22,"endTime":2396.7599999999998,"body":"this term in the book I'm writing, I call RPO or"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2397.7599999999998,"endTime":2402.3199999999997,"body":"retrieval practice opportunity. So not not run play"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2397.7599999999998,"endTime":2402.3199999999997,"body":"option, not talking about football. We're talking"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2402.3199999999997,"endTime":2407.42,"body":"about retrieval practice, opportunity. So when you"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2402.3199999999997,"endTime":2407.42,"body":"do have structure, by the time you get to a weekly"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2407.42,"endTime":2413.21,"body":"quiz or an exam, it's even further down the road."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2407.42,"endTime":2413.21,"body":"You're going to have at least six or seven RPOs"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2413.2999999999997,"endTime":2418.5099999999998,"body":"under your belt for a certain LO for a certain topic."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2413.2999999999997,"endTime":2418.5099999999998,"body":"So you're constantly assessing what do I know, what"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2418.52,"endTime":2423.8199999999997,"body":"do I not know? And this model too, we didn't talk"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2418.52,"endTime":2423.8199999999997,"body":"about it, but growing up online, this works great in"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2423.83,"endTime":2429.77,"body":"online courses. So I use high structure with async"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2423.83,"endTime":2429.77,"body":"online with sync online remote. It works across the"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2429.77,"endTime":2435.47,"body":"board because especially think of an online course"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2429.77,"endTime":2435.47,"body":"you don't have that eye to eye physical contact with"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2435.47,"endTime":2440.27,"body":"your instructor. Maybe you're seeing them on a"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2435.47,"endTime":2440.27,"body":"screen at best. That structure can break down pretty"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2440.27,"endTime":2446.48,"body":"quickly and be kind of a little bit more lost. So"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2440.27,"endTime":2446.48,"body":"having the high structure in the online class I find"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2446.48,"endTime":2450.86,"body":"even more important than maybe sometimes face to"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2446.48,"endTime":2450.86,"body":"face, where I'm not there physically to guide"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2450.86,"endTime":2452.45,"body":"students through all the time."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2454.66,"endTime":2458.56,"body":"I love that. Well, yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2454.66,"endTime":2458.56,"body":"Thank you, Justin, for coming on Intentional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2458.56,"endTime":2462.64,"body":"teaching. This has been great. I know our listeners"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2458.56,"endTime":2462.64,"body":"are going to get a lot from from our conversation"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2462.64,"endTime":2463.72,"body":"here today. Thanks for being here."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2464.18,"endTime":2468.2,"body":"Oh, thank you. It's always a blast"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2464.18,"endTime":2468.2,"body":"to talk to you. And I hope I see you in Chicago for"},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2468.2,"endTime":2469.34,"body":"POD this year, if not sooner."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2470.25,"endTime":2470.63,"body":"That'd be great."},{"speaker":"Justin Shaffer","startTime":2470.9,"endTime":2471.38,"body":"Awesome."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2473.42,"endTime":2477.95,"body":"That was Justin Shaffer, teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2473.42,"endTime":2477.95,"body":"professor in Chemical and biological engineering and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2477.95,"endTime":2482.87,"body":"associate dean for undergraduate studies at the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2477.95,"endTime":2482.87,"body":"Colorado School of Mines. As I mentioned at the top"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2482.87,"endTime":2488.12,"body":"of the episode, Justin has a book coming out later"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2482.87,"endTime":2488.12,"body":"this year or early 2025 called High Structure Course"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2488.12,"endTime":2492.95,"body":"Design for STEM. And you can learn more about that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2488.12,"endTime":2492.95,"body":"book and Justin's other work by following the links"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2492.95,"endTime":2497.21,"body":"in the show notes. There is a slightly longer"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2492.95,"endTime":2497.21,"body":"version of this interview with Justin available to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2497.21,"endTime":2502.34,"body":"my Patreon supporters. If you fast forward to the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2497.21,"endTime":2502.34,"body":"last 10 minutes or so of that interview. You can"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2502.34,"endTime":2507.59,"body":"hear Justin share more about his recent and upcoming"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2502.34,"endTime":2507.59,"body":"discipline based educational research, also known as"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2507.59,"endTime":2513.25,"body":"DBER. Justin has a great collection on the UVA"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2507.59,"endTime":2513.25,"body":"teaching hub about that topic, too. intentional"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2513.25,"endTime":2518.88,"body":"teaching is sponsored by UPCEA, the Online and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2513.25,"endTime":2518.88,"body":"Professional Education Association. In the show"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2518.88,"endTime":2523.71,"body":"notes, you'll find a link to the UPCEA website where"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2518.88,"endTime":2523.71,"body":"you can find out about their research, networking"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2523.71,"endTime":2529.02,"body":"opportunities and professional development offerings."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2523.71,"endTime":2529.02,"body":"This episode of Intentional Teaching was produced"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2529.02,"endTime":2534.33,"body":"and edited by me, Derek Bruff. See the show notes"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2529.02,"endTime":2534.33,"body":"for links to my website, the intentional teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2534.33,"endTime":2540.06,"body":"newsletter and my Patreon where you can help support"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2534.33,"endTime":2540.06,"body":"the show for just a few bucks a month. If you found"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2540.06,"endTime":2544.92,"body":"this or any episode of intentional teaching useful,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2540.06,"endTime":2544.92,"body":"would you consider sharing it with a colleague? That"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2544.92,"endTime":2547.14,"body":"would mean a lot. As always, thanks for listening."}]}