{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.82,"endTime":45.589999999999996,"body":"Today, I'm bringing you a conversation"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":40.82,"endTime":45.589999999999996,"body":"with Emily Affolter about culturally responsive"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":45.589999999999996,"endTime":51.65,"body":"teaching. Emily teaches in the Ph.D. program in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":45.589999999999996,"endTime":51.65,"body":"Sustainability Education at Prescott College in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.65,"endTime":58.04,"body":"Arizona. Her students come from all different"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":51.65,"endTime":58.04,"body":"professions. Some even already have Ph.D.s. They're"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":58.04,"endTime":63.5,"body":"in the program to pursue what Emily describes as"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":58.04,"endTime":63.5,"body":"social and environmental justice, as enacted in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":63.5,"endTime":68.09,"body":"teaching, learning and leading. How do Emily and her"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":63.5,"endTime":68.09,"body":"colleagues meet these diverse students where they"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":68.09,"endTime":73.43,"body":"are and help them achieve their goals? That's where"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":68.09,"endTime":73.43,"body":"culturally responsive teaching comes out, which"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":73.43,"endTime":80.12,"body":"Emily describes as reimagining a class with equity"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":73.43,"endTime":80.12,"body":"at the center. Sometimes when I go to talks or"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":80.12,"endTime":86.99,"body":"workshops about equity focused teaching, I want to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":80.12,"endTime":86.99,"body":"ask some awkward questions like, Yes, I get that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":86.99,"endTime":91.91,"body":"disrupting hierarchies in the classroom is important,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":86.99,"endTime":91.91,"body":"but at the end of the day, aren't you the instructor"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":91.91,"endTime":96.86,"body":"still the one in the room with the power? Or I can"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":91.91,"endTime":96.86,"body":"see how that works. In a small class full of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":96.86,"endTime":103.61,"body":"well-motivated students. But how do you go about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":96.86,"endTime":103.61,"body":"equity in a lecture hall with 200 students? Often"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":103.61,"endTime":108.26,"body":"when these questions are asked, I'm not entirely"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":103.61,"endTime":108.26,"body":"satisfied with the answers, but I really enjoyed my"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":108.26,"endTime":113.353,"body":"conversation with Emily about culturally responsive"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":108.26,"endTime":113.353,"body":"teaching because she had some good answers to these"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":113.353,"endTime":119.577,"body":"hard questions. She also helped me understand what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":113.353,"endTime":119.577,"body":"it can mean to Decolonise marine biology, which is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":119.577,"endTime":125.48,"body":"not something I expected to discuss when I invited"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":119.577,"endTime":125.48,"body":"Emily on the podcast. Emily, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":125.48,"endTime":129.53,"body":"being on international teaching and really glad to"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":125.48,"endTime":129.53,"body":"have you on the podcast today and to get to know you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":129.53,"endTime":131.36,"body":"and your work a little bit. Thanks for being here."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":131.69,"endTime":133.19,"body":"Thank you. I'm delighted."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":133.49,"endTime":138.8,"body":"And I will start with my usual opening"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":133.49,"endTime":138.8,"body":"question, which is can you tell us about a time when"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":138.8,"endTime":140.89999999999998,"body":"you realized you wanted to be an educator?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":142.45600000000002,"endTime":150.51600000000002,"body":"Oh, maybe that time is sort of a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":142.45600000000002,"endTime":150.51600000000002,"body":"longitudinal creep, you know, where you just I would"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":150.51600000000002,"endTime":162.24599999999998,"body":"just find myself in training in these spaces, even"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":150.51600000000002,"endTime":162.24599999999998,"body":"at a very young age. I went to a high school in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":162.24599999999998,"endTime":170.406,"body":"Seattle where we were trained by a Black Panther"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":162.24599999999998,"endTime":170.406,"body":"former Black Panthers to engage in deep dialogue"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":170.406,"endTime":178.926,"body":"about anti-racism, police brutality, homophobia,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":170.406,"endTime":178.926,"body":"sexism, sort of deep educational training in our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":178.926,"endTime":187.14600000000002,"body":"young teenage years. And they shut the school down"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":178.926,"endTime":187.14600000000002,"body":"for about a week every year. And those of us who"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":187.14600000000002,"endTime":194.166,"body":"were trained um got to facilitate these"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":187.14600000000002,"endTime":194.166,"body":"conversations like age 14 with a bunch of our peers"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":194.166,"endTime":205.29500000000002,"body":"and sometimes those who were older. And I just I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":194.166,"endTime":205.29500000000002,"body":"just loved being in a facilitative space. And it"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":205.29500000000002,"endTime":213.39499999999998,"body":"just kept creeping on me like different points in my"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":205.29500000000002,"endTime":213.39499999999998,"body":"life where I felt like I could carry the tools and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":213.39499999999998,"endTime":221.015,"body":"the toolkit that I had been sort of acquiring over"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":213.39499999999998,"endTime":221.015,"body":"time to support and facilitate probing questions,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":221.015,"endTime":227.16500000000002,"body":"deep dialogue, critical questions in different"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":221.015,"endTime":227.16500000000002,"body":"settings, whether it was like what we call cultural"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":227.16500000000002,"endTime":234.39499999999998,"body":"relations in high school, or I was a camp counselor"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":227.16500000000002,"endTime":234.39499999999998,"body":"forever and then became a trip like an international"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":234.39499999999998,"endTime":242.10500000000002,"body":"trip leader and a guide. But all of these things"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":234.39499999999998,"endTime":242.10500000000002,"body":"that I would do, I felt like I was drawing upon"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":242.10500000000002,"endTime":245.735,"body":"educational tool kits. You know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":247.02499999999998,"endTime":256.115,"body":"until I became a formal educator. And I think it was"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":247.02499999999998,"endTime":256.115,"body":"a slow creep, but it was also deep down like an"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":256.115,"endTime":263.315,"body":"intrinsic motivation to engage with others in sort"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":256.115,"endTime":263.315,"body":"of ongoing processes of inquiry learning and sort of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":263.585,"endTime":264.665,"body":"collaborative growth."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":265.445,"endTime":271.032,"body":"That's interesting. It sounds like a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":265.445,"endTime":271.032,"body":"heavy load for a 14 year old."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":273.432,"endTime":279.612,"body":"But also, you know, the parallels between"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":273.432,"endTime":279.612,"body":"facilitating hard conversations in a community and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":279.612,"endTime":283.452,"body":"facilitating hard conversations in a classroom."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":279.612,"endTime":283.452,"body":"There's a lot of overlap, both in terms of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":283.722,"endTime":287.892,"body":"objectives, right? Helping people kind of see things"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":283.722,"endTime":287.892,"body":"from different perspectives and understand things"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":287.892,"endTime":293.712,"body":"that are sometimes hidden. But then also the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":287.892,"endTime":293.712,"body":"facilitation skills that are required to do that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":293.712,"endTime":300.912,"body":"with with care and attention. Well, talk to us about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":293.712,"endTime":300.912,"body":"what you're doing now at Prescot. You direct, I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":300.912,"endTime":307.062,"body":"believe, a Ph.D. program that is not like any that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":300.912,"endTime":307.062,"body":"I've read about before. Can you tell us a little bit"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":307.062,"endTime":309.162,"body":"about that program and your role in it?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":309.67199999999997,"endTime":316.752,"body":"Yeah. Yeah, it's yes, it's a Ph.D."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":309.67199999999997,"endTime":316.752,"body":"program in sustainability education at Prescott"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":316.752,"endTime":325.722,"body":"College. So it is very different from what you or I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":316.752,"endTime":325.722,"body":"experienced at maybe more of a traditional R1 type"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":326.05199999999996,"endTime":335.142,"body":"university that has a lot of the the norms"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":326.05199999999996,"endTime":335.142,"body":"associated with like the higher education doctoral"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":335.142,"endTime":344.412,"body":"journey. We have a very transdisciplinary cadre of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":335.142,"endTime":344.412,"body":"students. So it's sustainability education and we"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":344.412,"endTime":345.342,"body":"call that sort of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":346.842,"endTime":353.562,"body":"social and environmental justice as enacted in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":346.842,"endTime":353.562,"body":"teaching, learning and leading. And so people from"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":353.562,"endTime":360.882,"body":"all sectors we have I'm just going to pull some"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":353.562,"endTime":360.882,"body":"examples like we have classical trained musicians,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":360.882,"endTime":368.442,"body":"we have folks in who are neonatologists. We have"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":360.882,"endTime":368.442,"body":"folks, many folks with EdDs that come in and want a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":368.442,"endTime":374.892,"body":"deeper dive. Folks who already have PhDs who felt"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":368.442,"endTime":374.892,"body":"like their Ph.Ds weren't serving them and needed"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":374.892,"endTime":378.37199999999996,"body":"something a little bit more radical. We have."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":380.442,"endTime":388.632,"body":"So we have just the median age of our students is 47."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":380.442,"endTime":388.632,"body":"And so they're doing incredible work in all sectors,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":388.632,"endTime":395.92199999999997,"body":"folks coming in from K-12, folks who are in the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":388.632,"endTime":395.92199999999997,"body":"business sector, you know, finance, lots of people"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":395.92199999999997,"endTime":403.18199999999996,"body":"who are sort of directing different nonprofits and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":395.92199999999997,"endTime":403.18199999999996,"body":"just starting their own consulting businesses that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":403.18199999999996,"endTime":408.852,"body":"support folks who want to do more work at the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":403.18199999999996,"endTime":408.852,"body":"intersection of social environmental justice as they"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":408.852,"endTime":418.87199999999996,"body":"play out in the educational sector. So it's really"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":408.852,"endTime":418.87199999999996,"body":"fun because we get to it's it's just the community"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":418.87199999999996,"endTime":426.822,"body":"itself is so rich and so multifaceted that we get to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":418.87199999999996,"endTime":426.822,"body":"say, let's put on this this lens and apply it"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":426.822,"endTime":430.272,"body":"through. How does neonatology apply to culturally"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":426.822,"endTime":430.272,"body":"responsive teaching?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":431.243,"endTime":437.22499999999997,"body":"Let's talk about culturally responsive"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":431.243,"endTime":437.22499999999997,"body":"teaching. You mentioned that, and I know that that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":437.22499999999997,"endTime":438.995,"body":"an area of expertise for you."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":441.09499999999997,"endTime":446.315,"body":"What does that mean? And and maybe what does it look"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":441.09499999999997,"endTime":446.315,"body":"like in in the context of the program you just"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":446.315,"endTime":451.53499999999997,"body":"described? We can talk about other context as well."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":446.315,"endTime":451.53499999999997,"body":"But but what's what is culturally responsive"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":451.53499999999997,"endTime":452.075,"body":"teaching mean?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":452.34499999999997,"endTime":458.97499999999997,"body":"Yes. Well, first, I have to give a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":452.34499999999997,"endTime":458.97499999999997,"body":"shout out to my doctoral advisor, Dr. Geneva Gay,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":458.97499999999997,"endTime":466.175,"body":"because she founded culturally responsive teaching."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":458.97499999999997,"endTime":466.175,"body":"And so she's a faculty emerita at the University of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":466.175,"endTime":473.32099999999997,"body":"Washington. And yeah, anyway, I have so much"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":466.175,"endTime":473.32099999999997,"body":"gratitude to her for mentoring me. So deeply for"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":473.32099999999997,"endTime":480.491,"body":"over a decade and something that she created Just"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":473.32099999999997,"endTime":480.491,"body":"phenomenal work. So. So culturally responsive"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":480.491,"endTime":482.921,"body":"Teaching is really about"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":483.971,"endTime":490.751,"body":"imagining who is in the room, in any classroom, what"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":483.971,"endTime":490.751,"body":"are the hierarchies and structures of power at play"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":491.02099999999996,"endTime":499.926,"body":"and how can we disrupt any hierarchies of power that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":491.02099999999996,"endTime":499.926,"body":"would reinforce the hegemony and help not only"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":499.926,"endTime":505.32599999999996,"body":"neutralize the space, but actually lift up any"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":499.926,"endTime":505.32599999999996,"body":"populations who have been systemically minoritized."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":505.356,"endTime":513.636,"body":"So how do you reimagine the class with an equity"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":505.356,"endTime":513.636,"body":"center that helps you think about what are the ways"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":513.636,"endTime":518.4060000000001,"body":"in which we've been doing things that have"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":513.636,"endTime":518.4060000000001,"body":"reinforced specific power differentials and patterns,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":518.856,"endTime":525.966,"body":"and then let's disrupt those. So it's to me,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":518.856,"endTime":525.966,"body":"culturally responsive teaching is just as much, if"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":525.966,"endTime":532.416,"body":"not more the how then the what, you know, it's how"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":525.966,"endTime":532.416,"body":"we do. What we do is everything that we do as"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":532.416,"endTime":539.946,"body":"educators in addition to what are we teaching, who"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":532.416,"endTime":539.946,"body":"is being represented, what are the outcomes of that?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":540.636,"endTime":543.846,"body":"And all of the the details like assessment and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":545.466,"endTime":551.976,"body":"and, you know, the granularity of our assignments"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":545.466,"endTime":551.976,"body":"and the mechanisms for group work. So it's very it's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":551.976,"endTime":557.946,"body":"very much it's a constant practice, culturally"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":551.976,"endTime":557.946,"body":"responsive teaching is a practice where we're"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":557.946,"endTime":565.416,"body":"inventorying ourselves as educators, as well as our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":557.946,"endTime":565.416,"body":"curricula in order to horizontalize and change the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":565.416,"endTime":566.676,"body":"structures of power in the room."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":567.642,"endTime":572.322,"body":"So what? What are some ways that plays"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":567.642,"endTime":572.322,"body":"out in the program there at Prescot?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":573.2800000000001,"endTime":580.45,"body":"Will we see learning is experiential,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":573.2800000000001,"endTime":580.45,"body":"so we want to make sure that whatever we do, there"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":580.45,"endTime":587.9200000000001,"body":"is an experience in ourselves and our students that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":580.45,"endTime":587.9200000000001,"body":"connects to their funds of knowledge. Like what do"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":587.9200000000001,"endTime":595.5400000000001,"body":"they come in with? What's their schema and how can"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":587.9200000000001,"endTime":595.5400000000001,"body":"we make sure that there's an application piece that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":595.5400000000001,"endTime":601.63,"body":"connects to what they know, what they care about,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":595.5400000000001,"endTime":601.63,"body":"what's relevant to them? Another thing is that we"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":601.63,"endTime":609.2800000000001,"body":"really practice humility as educators. The humility"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":601.63,"endTime":609.2800000000001,"body":"is a big piece of what's responsive, because if we"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":609.2800000000001,"endTime":614.98,"body":"come in and we purport to know everything, not only"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":609.2800000000001,"endTime":614.98,"body":"does that reinforce a power differential, but it"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":614.98,"endTime":623.548,"body":"also showcases that there would be a there would be"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":614.98,"endTime":623.548,"body":"a person that knows everything and is a holder of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":623.548,"endTime":630.028,"body":"knowledge, and that that would also reinforce the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":623.548,"endTime":630.028,"body":"subordinate role that a student could play. We want"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":630.028,"endTime":637.048,"body":"to we want to challenge that and bring humility to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":630.028,"endTime":637.048,"body":"everything. So I try to be we, my colleagues and I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":637.048,"endTime":645.748,"body":"they're phenomenal try to come in super curious"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":637.048,"endTime":645.748,"body":"right. Like the humility is not only do we want to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":645.748,"endTime":652.798,"body":"solicit feedback as frequently as possible as"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":645.748,"endTime":652.798,"body":"educators, but we have this mechanism for coming"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":652.798,"endTime":659.488,"body":"back to our students and indicating how that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":652.798,"endTime":659.488,"body":"feedback has been implemented to honor their voices,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":659.488,"endTime":666.028,"body":"their experiences not coming in with this purported,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":659.488,"endTime":666.028,"body":"you know, knowing of how to do something that would"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":666.028,"endTime":673.1980000000001,"body":"support them, but rather how might we better support"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":666.028,"endTime":673.1980000000001,"body":"you? Let us know whether it's identifiable or"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":673.1980000000001,"endTime":679.438,"body":"anonymous, and we will keep coming back and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":673.1980000000001,"endTime":679.438,"body":"reporting on how we have made adaptations to support"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":679.5880000000001,"endTime":688.4190000000001,"body":"our student needs. We always, always, always are"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":679.5880000000001,"endTime":688.4190000000001,"body":"recognizing our positionalities. So who am I in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":688.4190000000001,"endTime":697.2990000000001,"body":"terms of my proximity to power, privilege, status,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":688.4190000000001,"endTime":697.2990000000001,"body":"and how do I reckon with that publicly so that my"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":697.2990000000001,"endTime":705.5790000000001,"body":"students know that I know how I'm situated? You know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":697.2990000000001,"endTime":705.5790000000001,"body":"as a white settler or, you know, cis woman and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":705.909,"endTime":712.029,"body":"parent, you know, with, you know, long COVID and all"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":705.909,"endTime":712.029,"body":"of these things that we hold,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":714.1990000000001,"endTime":719.4190000000001,"body":"how do we put that into the space in some way? And"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":714.1990000000001,"endTime":719.4190000000001,"body":"for everyone, it's different. For some people,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":719.4190000000001,"endTime":726.9490000000001,"body":"they're much more than that. They have different"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":719.4190000000001,"endTime":726.9490000000001,"body":"comfort levels with their how they want to show up"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":726.9490000000001,"endTime":733.759,"body":"with their positionality. But the bigger picture is"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":726.9490000000001,"endTime":733.759,"body":"educating is not neutral. We don't want to purport"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":733.759,"endTime":739.849,"body":"that it is, and how we are embodied in this world is"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":733.759,"endTime":739.849,"body":"going to inform our proximity to power privilege. We"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":739.849,"endTime":744.8290000000001,"body":"want our students to know that and how we reckon"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":739.849,"endTime":744.8290000000001,"body":"with that is going to show up with our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":744.8290000000001,"endTime":751.969,"body":"accountability to how might I be colluding with"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":744.8290000000001,"endTime":751.969,"body":"systems of power and how might I interrogate that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":751.969,"endTime":756.289,"body":"publicly so that we can work towards something more"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":751.969,"endTime":756.289,"body":"liberatory together."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":757.4730000000001,"endTime":763.163,"body":"Let's talk about that kind of a naming"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":757.4730000000001,"endTime":763.163,"body":"and kind of unpacking your own personality in the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":763.163,"endTime":765.563,"body":"classroom as as the instructor."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":767.336,"endTime":775.111,"body":"What are some things that can happen with students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":767.336,"endTime":775.111,"body":"when we do that? Because in some ways, certain"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":775.111,"endTime":781.081,"body":"aspects of my identity when I walk in the classroom"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":775.111,"endTime":781.081,"body":"are fairly obvious, right? You know, I present as a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":781.081,"endTime":786.811,"body":"male, I'm Caucasian, right? I'm six feet tall. Like"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":781.081,"endTime":786.811,"body":"there's things that you can you can notice"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":788.538,"endTime":795.196,"body":"what happens when you start to kind of name that and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":788.538,"endTime":795.196,"body":"and discuss that with your students that might not"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":795.196,"endTime":801.316,"body":"happen if you, as the facilitator are not quite so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":795.196,"endTime":801.316,"body":"open with your own positionality."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":801.706,"endTime":806.206,"body":"Yeah. One of my students is working"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":801.706,"endTime":806.206,"body":"on this right now. We were just talking about this"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":806.5360000000001,"endTime":812.416,"body":"who has indigenous identities and believes in this"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":806.5360000000001,"endTime":812.416,"body":"notion of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":813.4060000000001,"endTime":820.696,"body":"especially if you are an instructor that has a lot"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":813.4060000000001,"endTime":820.696,"body":"of privileged identities. There is something"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":822.087,"endTime":829.2270000000001,"body":"imperative according to these conversations with a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":822.087,"endTime":829.2270000000001,"body":"student, much of the literature in owning that and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":829.2270000000001,"endTime":837.057,"body":"making it known that you know it in order to create"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":829.2270000000001,"endTime":837.057,"body":"sort of a graceful and humble space for other"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":837.057,"endTime":843.057,"body":"students, particularly students who have less"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":837.057,"endTime":843.057,"body":"proximity to power and privilege in the room to say,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":843.5970000000001,"endTime":852.807,"body":"I am hyper aware of how my body informs my my"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":843.5970000000001,"endTime":852.807,"body":"privileges. And because of that, I've designed the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":852.807,"endTime":863.0970000000001,"body":"course in such a way that holds myself accountable"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":852.807,"endTime":863.0970000000001,"body":"to understanding collusion and complicity. That also"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":863.277,"endTime":872.157,"body":"lets you all know that I am not claiming this is a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":863.277,"endTime":872.157,"body":"neutral space. You know, I'm I'm recognizing that I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":872.157,"endTime":879.3570000000001,"body":"have a role to play and poking holes in this"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":872.157,"endTime":879.3570000000001,"body":"mythology of neutrality in order to help everyone in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":879.3570000000001,"endTime":885.567,"body":"the room recognize how they, from their different"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":879.3570000000001,"endTime":885.567,"body":"vantage points, can sit in that complexity and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":885.567,"endTime":887.067,"body":"imagine their own accountability."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":889.048,"endTime":895.258,"body":"I'm reminded I had on the podcast"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":889.048,"endTime":895.258,"body":"earlier this year, Isis Artze Vega from Valencia"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":895.258,"endTime":899.4580000000001,"body":"College, and she talks a lot about the role of trust"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":895.258,"endTime":899.4580000000001,"body":"in the classroom."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":900.028,"endTime":900.418,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":900.418,"endTime":907.831,"body":"And how so many students come in really"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":900.418,"endTime":907.831,"body":"deeply skeptical about the person at the front of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":907.831,"endTime":908.221,"body":"the room."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":908.311,"endTime":908.541,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":909.601,"endTime":917.124,"body":"Can I trust them? Do they have my best"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":909.601,"endTime":917.124,"body":"interest at heart? And Isis said that we there may"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":917.124,"endTime":923.904,"body":"have been educational context in the past where one"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":917.124,"endTime":923.904,"body":"might assume a certain level of trust, but that was"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":923.904,"endTime":929.264,"body":"probably not even there either. Right. That we"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":923.904,"endTime":929.264,"body":"actually as as the leaders of the classroom, as the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":929.3340000000001,"endTime":936.462,"body":"instructors, we have to we have to be proactive in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":929.3340000000001,"endTime":936.462,"body":"helping students know that they can trust us. And it"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":936.462,"endTime":939.072,"body":"sounds like this is this is a move one can make"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":940.5120000000001,"endTime":945.812,"body":"because our students come into the classroom aware"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":940.5120000000001,"endTime":945.812,"body":"of their own identities and their own positionality."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":946.032,"endTime":950.9820000000001,"body":"Yeah, right. And, and, and if if we don't kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":946.032,"endTime":950.9820000000001,"body":"bring that out to the table where we can talk about"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":950.9820000000001,"endTime":953.258,"body":"it, why would they trust us?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":953.5880000000001,"endTime":958.808,"body":"Absolutely. Totally. I'm so glad you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":953.5880000000001,"endTime":958.808,"body":"brought that up. Because for me, one of the goals of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":958.808,"endTime":967.8380000000001,"body":"culturally responsive teaching is whole and just"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":958.808,"endTime":967.8380000000001,"body":"relationships. Trust and belonging are so closely"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":967.988,"endTime":976.658,"body":"linked and creating and co-creating communities of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":967.988,"endTime":976.658,"body":"belonging to me is sort of at the center of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":976.658,"endTime":981.6080000000001,"body":"everything culturally responsive. Because if we"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":976.658,"endTime":981.6080000000001,"body":"can't trust one another, we can't trust our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":981.6080000000001,"endTime":990.849,"body":"instructor. Not only how is learning going to unfurl,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":981.6080000000001,"endTime":990.849,"body":"but for whom is learning going to unfurl, and how"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":990.849,"endTime":997.4490000000001,"body":"might that replicate patterns that are incredibly"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":990.849,"endTime":997.4490000000001,"body":"harmful and destructive for individuals and for our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":997.4490000000001,"endTime":1005.039,"body":"societies? So I love that. And I think that is what"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":997.4490000000001,"endTime":1005.039,"body":"you're saying is right. I mean, I think coming up as"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1005.039,"endTime":1012.089,"body":"an instructor with humility and with ownership of,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1005.039,"endTime":1012.089,"body":"you know, it's not like you're saying this is my"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1012.089,"endTime":1020.249,"body":"positionality it's so dialed. It's like I like, I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1012.089,"endTime":1020.249,"body":"think a messy positionality is actually very healing"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1020.4290000000001,"endTime":1025.4089999999999,"body":"because it's really just saying, let's work on this"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1020.4290000000001,"endTime":1025.4089999999999,"body":"together. Let's be humans together."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1025.959,"endTime":1028.349,"body":"It's something that I sometimes"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1025.959,"endTime":1028.349,"body":"struggle with is"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1030.802,"endTime":1038.56,"body":"when thinking about I'm going to try to say this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1030.802,"endTime":1038.56,"body":"word horizontal ized, I've never used that word that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1038.56,"endTime":1044.66,"body":"way. But I like that when I'm thinking about a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1038.56,"endTime":1044.66,"body":"horizontal ized classroom, and I use classroom"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1044.66,"endTime":1048.83,"body":"loosely here, right? I'm not talking about the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1044.66,"endTime":1048.83,"body":"physical walls. I'm talking about a group of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1048.83,"endTime":1049.8799999999999,"body":"learners working together."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1053.07,"endTime":1060.96,"body":"I'm still the instructor, right? I have I have a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1053.07,"endTime":1060.96,"body":"unique role in that learning community."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1061.23,"endTime":1061.6799999999998,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1061.6799999999998,"endTime":1068.85,"body":"And I'm wondering how you balance the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1061.6799999999998,"endTime":1068.85,"body":"unique aspects of that role with the goals that you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1068.85,"endTime":1074.3999999999999,"body":"have, co-creation of knowledge and and kind of human"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1068.85,"endTime":1074.3999999999999,"body":"development and flourishing."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1074.85,"endTime":1079.5,"body":"Yes, absolutely. I don't know where"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1074.85,"endTime":1079.5,"body":"this came from. I wish I could cite it, but there's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1079.5,"endTime":1088.1699999999998,"body":"sort of like a a common belief in the responsive"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1079.5,"endTime":1088.1699999999998,"body":"classroom that 50% of the content is is pre created."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1088.3799999999999,"endTime":1096.57,"body":"Like as an instructor you have 50% there set and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1088.3799999999999,"endTime":1096.57,"body":"then 50% is emergent based on who is in the room."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1096.57,"endTime":1103.11,"body":"Right. And what their needs are, what their"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1096.57,"endTime":1103.11,"body":"interests are, what drives them. Like I said before,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1103.11,"endTime":1109.1399999999999,"body":"what are their funds of knowledge? So how can you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1103.11,"endTime":1109.1399999999999,"body":"it's not that as an instructor, you're not active"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1109.1999999999998,"endTime":1116.61,"body":"very actively in a leadership role, but you're in a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1109.1999999999998,"endTime":1116.61,"body":"leadership role that's dexterous and curious about"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1116.97,"endTime":1123.9299999999998,"body":"the needs, the skills, the desires, the purposes of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1116.97,"endTime":1123.9299999999998,"body":"the folks in the room. So how can you say and a lot"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1123.9299999999998,"endTime":1130.6799999999998,"body":"of that comes from constant, solicitation of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1123.9299999999998,"endTime":1130.6799999999998,"body":"feedback, like, here's what I pre created for you to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1130.6799999999998,"endTime":1138.48,"body":"engage with, but where are the holes for you? And"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1130.6799999999998,"endTime":1138.48,"body":"how can I find articles TEDTalks content that is"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1138.48,"endTime":1143.9399999999998,"body":"actually going to be more reflective? We talk about"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1138.48,"endTime":1143.9399999999998,"body":"windows and mirrors in curriculum. I'm sure you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1143.9399999999998,"endTime":1146.31,"body":"I see you smiling. You have a podcast on intentional"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1143.9399999999998,"endTime":1146.31,"body":"teaching!"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1146.75,"endTime":1150.48,"body":"I just I just love metaphors. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1146.75,"endTime":1150.48,"body":"curious to know where you're going to go with this."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1150.54,"endTime":1156.8999999999999,"body":"Well, windows and mirrors so so how"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1150.54,"endTime":1156.8999999999999,"body":"can we have in our curricula mirrors that reflect"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1156.8999999999999,"endTime":1163.56,"body":"our students and their lived experiences, their"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1156.8999999999999,"endTime":1163.56,"body":"positionalities, you know, their interests and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1163.56,"endTime":1169.6499999999999,"body":"windows outside of themselves, things that they have"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1163.56,"endTime":1169.6499999999999,"body":"never before considered. And how do we craft that in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1169.6499999999999,"endTime":1175.11,"body":"such a way that everyone feels belonging and at the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1169.6499999999999,"endTime":1175.11,"body":"same time, like talk about the zone of proximal"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1175.11,"endTime":1178.56,"body":"development, everyone's outside of a place of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1179.9499999999998,"endTime":1184.04,"body":"familiarity as well. And so we toggle Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1184.84,"endTime":1192.1299999999999,"body":"And that's one of the that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1184.84,"endTime":1192.1299999999999,"body":"roles of the teacher is, is to, is to create those,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1192.6399999999999,"endTime":1200.52,"body":"those windows. I do like that metaphor right because"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1192.6399999999999,"endTime":1200.52,"body":"it's not and I you know I've seen conversations"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1200.52,"endTime":1207.33,"body":"around kind of course design with your students"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1200.52,"endTime":1207.33,"body":"right like this and I've even heard arguments that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1207.33,"endTime":1211.1999999999998,"body":"it's somewhat presumptuous of us to walk in on the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1207.33,"endTime":1211.1999999999998,"body":"first day of class and think we know what our"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1211.1999999999998,"endTime":1215.01,"body":"learning objectives are for our students. But what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1211.1999999999998,"endTime":1215.01,"body":"I'm hearing from you is that we will have some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1215.01,"endTime":1215.9099999999999,"body":"learning objectives."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1215.97,"endTime":1216.27,"body":"Yeah ,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1216.3899999999999,"endTime":1219.8999999999999,"body":"but we haven't mapped them all out and"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1216.3899999999999,"endTime":1219.8999999999999,"body":"locked them down where the students don't have a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1219.8999999999999,"endTime":1222.06,"body":"role, that it's it's a more balanced approach."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1222.21,"endTime":1226.6399999999999,"body":"Right. We, we do like Higher"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1222.21,"endTime":1226.6399999999999,"body":"Learning Commission. We have an accreditation sort"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1226.6499999999999,"endTime":1233.3999999999999,"body":"of so a situation where we do we come in with our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1226.6499999999999,"endTime":1233.3999999999999,"body":"learning objectives. They're fixed. I can post them"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1233.3999999999999,"endTime":1239.37,"body":"up, but they're they're broad enough too. So it's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1233.3999999999999,"endTime":1239.37,"body":"like one of our objectives might be to create a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1239.37,"endTime":1246.0,"body":"culturally responsive pedagogical model. That's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1239.37,"endTime":1246.0,"body":"that's an objective. It's fixed. But how that's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1246.0,"endTime":1255.0,"body":"created what that looks like, how what sources"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1246.0,"endTime":1255.0,"body":"inform that is it presented in a video form? Is it a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1255.0,"endTime":1261.1,"body":"group project? Is it presented as a narrative"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1255.0,"endTime":1261.1,"body":"document? Is it a letter to an institution? You know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1261.1299999999999,"endTime":1267.36,"body":"it's like those are the things that we get really"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1261.1299999999999,"endTime":1267.36,"body":"dexterous about. And so I think that's maybe that's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1267.36,"endTime":1273.72,"body":"sort of to answer some of your questions. We do have"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1267.36,"endTime":1273.72,"body":"a very specific approach, but that approach within"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1273.72,"endTime":1280.9499999999998,"body":"that approach, there is so much fluidity. And"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1273.72,"endTime":1280.9499999999998,"body":"honestly, we're fluid about assessment. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1281.07,"endTime":1288.1499999999999,"body":"honest assessment is a big deal in culturally"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1281.07,"endTime":1288.1499999999999,"body":"responsive teaching. And there can be, you all know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1288.1499999999999,"endTime":1296.73,"body":"summative assessment like a test, a single piece of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1288.1499999999999,"endTime":1296.73,"body":"writing, you know, a quiz that's like a final"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1298.23,"endTime":1306.3,"body":"product that one would assess. We're very much"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1298.23,"endTime":1306.3,"body":"looking at how summative assessment can really"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1306.3,"endTime":1313.74,"body":"stymie growth and stymie learning. And we're about"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1306.3,"endTime":1313.74,"body":"learning. That's what we're doing. So what we've"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1313.74,"endTime":1320.6399999999999,"body":"done, and in most of my classes, I have minimized"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1313.74,"endTime":1320.6399999999999,"body":"summative assessment as much as I possibly can and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1320.6399999999999,"endTime":1326.46,"body":"emphasize formative. So formative assessment looks"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1320.6399999999999,"endTime":1326.46,"body":"like all of the ways that people are showing up,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1326.8799999999999,"endTime":1332.76,"body":"engaging, bringing their whole selves to the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1326.8799999999999,"endTime":1332.76,"body":"learning, offering feedback to their peers. That's a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1332.76,"endTime":1339.51,"body":"big deal, soliciting feedback from many perspectives."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1332.76,"endTime":1339.51,"body":"Again, I've talked about it as an educator, but also"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1339.75,"endTime":1350.22,"body":"to your to your peers receiving offering and so many"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1339.75,"endTime":1350.22,"body":"of the things that are just in the doing as opposed"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1350.22,"endTime":1358.08,"body":"to in these products. And so we we believe I believe"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1350.22,"endTime":1358.08,"body":"that formative assessment is something we need to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1358.08,"endTime":1366.72,"body":"amplify further, to really emphasize what it means"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1358.08,"endTime":1366.72,"body":"to be showing up and engaging as opposed to what"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1366.72,"endTime":1374.49,"body":"someone's final product is going to look like as"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1366.72,"endTime":1374.49,"body":"sort of a singular metric of their success. We when"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1374.49,"endTime":1382.6799999999998,"body":"you think about what it means to offer a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1374.49,"endTime":1382.6799999999998,"body":"quantitative grade to someone for one thing, that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1382.6799999999998,"endTime":1387.12,"body":"they create, especially when there hasn't been"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1382.6799999999998,"endTime":1387.12,"body":"really careful scaffolding to support them in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1387.12,"endTime":1396.96,"body":"succeeding along the way. That singular grade can"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1387.12,"endTime":1396.96,"body":"really have an effect on that person's long term"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1396.96,"endTime":1404.46,"body":"trajectory in the field and their sense of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1396.96,"endTime":1404.46,"body":"self-efficacy, their sense of potential. And we are"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1404.49,"endTime":1412.5,"body":"all about imagining futures for all of us, for every"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1404.49,"endTime":1412.5,"body":"student. Like we want people to see themselves in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1412.5,"endTime":1419.8799999999999,"body":"whatever field makes them curious. And when we have"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1412.5,"endTime":1419.8799999999999,"body":"summative assessments that can dehumanise and not"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1419.8799999999999,"endTime":1422.85,"body":"really appropriately pluralistically"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1424.86,"endTime":1432.84,"body":"evaluate how students care, how they show up, that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1424.86,"endTime":1432.84,"body":"can really reinforce the stratification of who's in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1432.84,"endTime":1436.8899999999999,"body":"what field. Right? So we are we try to be careful."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1437.76,"endTime":1444.1699999999998,"body":"Yeah. So let me change the teaching"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1437.76,"endTime":1444.1699999999998,"body":"context a little bit because I'm imagining some some"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1444.1699999999998,"endTime":1451.8799999999999,"body":"pushback from certain faculty who may teach, you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1444.1699999999998,"endTime":1451.8799999999999,"body":"know, 200 students at a time in a big lecture hall"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1452.12,"endTime":1455.05,"body":"in a chemistry or biology course, Right?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1455.06,"endTime":1455.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1457.11,"endTime":1462.9099999999999,"body":"And, you know, some of the challenges"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1457.11,"endTime":1462.9099999999999,"body":"in that teaching context are not... they're"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1462.9099999999999,"endTime":1467.08,"body":"structural, right? Like, why are we putting 200"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1462.9099999999999,"endTime":1467.08,"body":"students in a room and teaching them, you know,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1467.08,"endTime":1471.46,"body":"material they're not interested in? Right? Like"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1467.08,"endTime":1471.46,"body":"there's curricular challenges, there's logistical"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1471.46,"endTime":1477.61,"body":"and facilities challenges in here. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1471.46,"endTime":1477.61,"body":"faculty can play a role in changing those over time,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1477.82,"endTime":1484.12,"body":"perhaps. But there's also the choices that we make"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1477.82,"endTime":1484.12,"body":"as individual teachers and in kind of the places"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1484.12,"endTime":1484.59,"body":"we're stuck."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1485.05,"endTime":1485.32,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1485.4399999999998,"endTime":1490.3999999999999,"body":"And so I'm wondering, how do you go"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1485.4399999999998,"endTime":1490.3999999999999,"body":"about practicing culturally responsive teaching in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1490.84,"endTime":1494.35,"body":"in a kind of teaching environment that's kind of set"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1490.84,"endTime":1494.35,"body":"up against that?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1494.83,"endTime":1501.6699999999998,"body":"Yeah, I think well, I do think it's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1494.83,"endTime":1501.6699999999998,"body":"I, I think the bigger the room is, sort of the more"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1501.6699999999998,"endTime":1507.6999999999998,"body":"impediments one feels. That's true. I work with"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1501.6699999999998,"endTime":1507.6999999999998,"body":"educators who are working with, you know, 2 to 500"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1507.6999999999998,"endTime":1513.79,"body":"students in a training capacity. So I think it's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1507.6999999999998,"endTime":1513.79,"body":"also still so positive in some of I mean, possible"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1514.12,"endTime":1520.12,"body":"and some of the things that positive, hopefully"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1514.12,"endTime":1520.12,"body":"positive you know, some of the things that I would"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1520.12,"endTime":1526.24,"body":"say are, one, you know, how can you might not"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1520.12,"endTime":1526.24,"body":"eliminate summative assessment? I'm not saying"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1526.24,"endTime":1531.28,"body":"summative assessment is a problem. I'm I think"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1526.24,"endTime":1531.28,"body":"summative assessment needs really careful"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1531.28,"endTime":1538.6299999999999,"body":"scaffolding. So that's number one is just how if"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1531.28,"endTime":1538.6299999999999,"body":"okay, if you're going to assess folks through a test,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1539.02,"endTime":1546.49,"body":"how are you going to ensure that the questions in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1539.02,"endTime":1546.49,"body":"that test are questions that the students have had"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1546.49,"endTime":1554.62,"body":"many different methods and variety to engage with."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1546.49,"endTime":1554.62,"body":"So that's number one is just like how many ways in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1554.62,"endTime":1561.6999999999998,"body":"which have you addressed these things so that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1554.62,"endTime":1561.6999999999998,"body":"students who are coming from well, I'm just thinking"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1561.6999999999998,"endTime":1568.4199999999998,"body":"about neurodivergent, but so many different ways of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1561.6999999999998,"endTime":1568.4199999999998,"body":"knowing how are we doing that? How are we sort of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1568.4199999999998,"endTime":1575.71,"body":"giving our students the benefit of the doubt so that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1568.4199999999998,"endTime":1575.71,"body":"we're not it's not pathologizing. It's really even"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1576.01,"endTime":1582.9399999999998,"body":"even a test can come from a place of care and a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1576.01,"endTime":1582.9399999999998,"body":"pedagogy of of love, really, and a humanizing"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1582.9399999999998,"endTime":1590.9199999999998,"body":"pedagogy. But how is everything that you doing, you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1582.9399999999998,"endTime":1590.9199999999998,"body":"do leading up to that? How might you have multiple"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1590.9199999999998,"endTime":1600.01,"body":"right answers? You know, like really? Because one of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1590.9199999999998,"endTime":1600.01,"body":"the things that I think about a lot is that we"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1600.01,"endTime":1606.34,"body":"reinforce binary thinking all the time in the way in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1600.01,"endTime":1606.34,"body":"which we have been acculturated in this world, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1606.58,"endTime":1612.1,"body":"There's a right, there's a wrong there's a singular"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1606.58,"endTime":1612.1,"body":"answer. What happens when you create a test with the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1612.1,"endTime":1618.82,"body":"opportunity for more for multiple answers, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1612.1,"endTime":1618.82,"body":"for for students to actually allow themselves to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1618.82,"endTime":1625.4199999999998,"body":"imagine without fear and then assess accordingly. I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1618.82,"endTime":1625.4199999999998,"body":"mean, also, there's so many ways they can work with"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1625.4199999999998,"endTime":1630.85,"body":"their peers right? So there's a lot of ways you can"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1625.4199999999998,"endTime":1630.85,"body":"do formative assessment in a large classroom. But"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1630.85,"endTime":1638.32,"body":"I'm all about peer work. And when we do peer work,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1630.85,"endTime":1638.32,"body":"it's also very important to be the great Again"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1638.32,"endTime":1645.79,"body":"scaffolder, because when we do culturally responsive,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1638.32,"endTime":1645.79,"body":"we try to be culturally responsive. What often"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1645.79,"endTime":1651.6999999999998,"body":"happens is, you know, if you just put people in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1645.79,"endTime":1651.6999999999998,"body":"groups and say, you know, please create this product"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1651.85,"endTime":1659.9199999999998,"body":"without any careful intentional scaffolding, then"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1651.85,"endTime":1659.9199999999998,"body":"you know, these inequities can perpetuate themselves."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1659.9199999999998,"endTime":1664.99,"body":"So folks with more dominant identities might be the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1659.9199999999998,"endTime":1664.99,"body":"ones that speak out for the group or present on"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1664.99,"endTime":1669.9399999999998,"body":"behalf of the group. Folks with more minoritized"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1664.99,"endTime":1669.9399999999998,"body":"identities might be doing more of that invisible"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1670.1499999999999,"endTime":1676.27,"body":"labor. Right. And so how do we scaffold really"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1670.1499999999999,"endTime":1676.27,"body":"carefully to ensure that those roles are explicit"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1676.6899999999998,"endTime":1682.3899999999999,"body":"and they're rotating and everyone's going to occupy"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1676.6899999999998,"endTime":1682.3899999999999,"body":"each role? And you we talk about why you can talk"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1682.3899999999999,"endTime":1688.4199999999998,"body":"about the data. You know, what do these patterns"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1682.3899999999999,"endTime":1688.4199999999998,"body":"look like if we don't interrupt them? And then I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1688.4199999999998,"endTime":1696.04,"body":"think a lot of it, too, is how do you build in sort"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1688.4199999999998,"endTime":1696.04,"body":"of a self reflexivity, even if you have 200 students,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1696.34,"endTime":1703.4499999999998,"body":"how do you build in this sort of culture of self"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1696.34,"endTime":1703.4499999999998,"body":"reflexivity? So the students are reflecting on"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1703.4499999999998,"endTime":1712.36,"body":"themselves and they're learning within an"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1703.4499999999998,"endTime":1712.36,"body":"attitudinal or disposition to make changes based on"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1712.36,"endTime":1717.61,"body":"this sort of personal accountability. And I think in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1712.36,"endTime":1717.61,"body":"all of our classes, you know, you can just that's"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1717.61,"endTime":1724.1799999999998,"body":"formative assessment. You can ask students, you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1717.61,"endTime":1724.1799999999998,"body":"don't have to grade it, but you can you can grade"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1724.1799999999998,"endTime":1731.9199999999998,"body":"for participation to build into a muscle of, you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1724.1799999999998,"endTime":1731.9199999999998,"body":"know, like, how is this working for me? But I think"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1731.9199999999998,"endTime":1738.25,"body":"even in a 200 student room, one of the great things"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1731.9199999999998,"endTime":1738.25,"body":"is, you know, a QR code up on the board that would"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1738.25,"endTime":1745.6,"body":"just be every time you meet like did something not"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1738.25,"endTime":1745.6,"body":"resonate? What could I do differently to better"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1745.6,"endTime":1750.9399999999998,"body":"activate your learning and honor your needs? You"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1745.6,"endTime":1750.9399999999998,"body":"know, and I think that's just that's just good"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1750.9399999999998,"endTime":1755.8,"body":"practice that you come back into the room and you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1750.9399999999998,"endTime":1755.8,"body":"say ten people have feedback and this is that you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1755.8,"endTime":1760.87,"body":"might not say everything, but you might say these"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1755.8,"endTime":1760.87,"body":"are the two things and these are the ways in which I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1760.87,"endTime":1767.8,"body":"responded and just that much to say, I, I added a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1760.87,"endTime":1767.8,"body":"reading that supported, you know, these student"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1767.8,"endTime":1775.51,"body":"identities that weren't reflected or I added another"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1767.8,"endTime":1775.51,"body":"mechanism for assessment because folks wanted to do"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1775.51,"endTime":1783.6999999999998,"body":"a podcast instead of a, you know, a quiz. All of a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1775.51,"endTime":1783.6999999999998,"body":"sudden it just becomes, Oh, you're open to the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1783.6999999999998,"endTime":1790.09,"body":"pluralism that is all of us, all 200 of us in the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1783.6999999999998,"endTime":1790.09,"body":"room. And I feel like I belong and I matter because"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1790.09,"endTime":1790.4199999999998,"body":"of that."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1793.3899999999999,"endTime":1798.3999999999999,"body":"And I had on the podcast recently"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1793.3899999999999,"endTime":1798.3999999999999,"body":"Thomas Tobin, who who writes a lot about universal"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1798.3999999999999,"endTime":1805.79,"body":"design for learning. Yeah. And he drew a distinction"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1798.3999999999999,"endTime":1805.79,"body":"between universal design, which happens before you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1805.79,"endTime":1812.81,"body":"meet your students, right? How can you design this"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1805.79,"endTime":1812.81,"body":"learning experience so that you know, as many"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1812.81,"endTime":1818.72,"body":"students have as many options to thrive in that as"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1812.81,"endTime":1818.72,"body":"you can? And then there's what happens after the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1818.72,"endTime":1823.85,"body":"students show up, right? Where then you need to get"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1818.72,"endTime":1823.85,"body":"to know them as individuals and hopefully you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1823.85,"endTime":1828.23,"body":"already have a nice structure where students have"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1823.85,"endTime":1828.23,"body":"some options to represent what they're learning or"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1828.23,"endTime":1830.6899999999998,"body":"engage in different ways. But then also,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1833.05,"endTime":1837.3799999999999,"body":"I guess I worry, right, that if I come in with that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1833.05,"endTime":1837.3799999999999,"body":"idea that I have designed this perfect learning"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1837.3799999999999,"endTime":1845.07,"body":"experience in advance, Once again, I'm kind of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1837.3799999999999,"endTime":1845.07,"body":"positioning myself as kind of knowing what's best"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1845.07,"endTime":1850.4399999999998,"body":"for everyone in the room, right. And not actually"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1845.07,"endTime":1850.4399999999998,"body":"seeking out student input and student feedback in a"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1850.4399999999998,"endTime":1852.78,"body":"way that develops the trust that is really important."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1853.11,"endTime":1854.1899999999998,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1854.9399999999998,"endTime":1861.0,"body":"Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to circle back"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1854.9399999999998,"endTime":1861.0,"body":"to something you mentioned in passing, but I'm just"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1861.0,"endTime":1867.48,"body":"curious about because again, I think some of these"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1861.0,"endTime":1867.48,"body":"contexts are really interesting. You said I think"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1867.48,"endTime":1871.59,"body":"you referred to a project that involved Decolonising"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1867.48,"endTime":1871.59,"body":"marine biology."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1872.1,"endTime":1873.22,"body":"Yeah, Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1873.9299999999998,"endTime":1877.77,"body":"And I don't think it's your project,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1873.9299999999998,"endTime":1877.77,"body":"but can you give us a sense of kind of what what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":1877.77,"endTime":1878.37,"body":"that means?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1878.58,"endTime":1884.34,"body":"Yeah, well, so, so fresh. It was"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1878.58,"endTime":1884.34,"body":"just two days ago in this project that a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1884.34,"endTime":1892.8899999999999,"body":"students work in the world of anticolonial and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1884.34,"endTime":1892.8899999999999,"body":"Decolonising pedagogy. And that really means, you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1892.8899999999999,"endTime":1901.83,"body":"know, how did settler colonialism inform the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1892.8899999999999,"endTime":1901.83,"body":"structures, mechanisms, knowledges systems that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1901.83,"endTime":1911.49,"body":"we're engaging in now and what not only genocidally,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1901.83,"endTime":1911.49,"body":"but in terms of what has that assimilation done to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1912.78,"endTime":1921.51,"body":"really hurt indigenous communities and all of us,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1912.78,"endTime":1921.51,"body":"and how can we relearn what what Indigenous"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1921.51,"endTime":1928.05,"body":"knowledges have to to heal our whole society, like"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1921.51,"endTime":1928.05,"body":"really looking at settler colonialism as this"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1928.05,"endTime":1935.61,"body":"project that is enduring and continuing to harm and"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1928.05,"endTime":1935.61,"body":"also to reinforce these false binaries of knowing."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1935.9099999999999,"endTime":1943.4099999999999,"body":"And so I was just in at our Kino Bay Center in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1935.9099999999999,"endTime":1943.4099999999999,"body":"Mexico. It's a field station for Prescott College,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1943.4099999999999,"endTime":1949.86,"body":"and they worked in close partnership with the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1943.4099999999999,"endTime":1949.86,"body":"Comcaac (Seri people) which are the indigenous"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1949.86,"endTime":1960.57,"body":"peoples of the area. And they came a Comcaac elder"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1949.86,"endTime":1960.57,"body":"came and and spoke with a presentation on basically"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1961.08,"endTime":1968.1599999999999,"body":"gosh, I should put it up. But they had a whole"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1961.08,"endTime":1968.1599999999999,"body":"discussion of what knowledges the Comcaac people had"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1968.1599999999999,"endTime":1978.09,"body":"in terms of different classifications of molluscs"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1968.1599999999999,"endTime":1978.09,"body":"and how many more molluscs the Seri people had"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1978.09,"endTime":1983.61,"body":"identified than were identified by basically like"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1978.09,"endTime":1983.61,"body":"these settler scientists, like what is what is"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1983.61,"endTime":1989.85,"body":"believed to exist there. And so this is such an"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1983.61,"endTime":1989.85,"body":"interesting I mean, they had this whole list and I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1989.85,"endTime":1994.74,"body":"should find I'll find the citation for you for later"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1989.85,"endTime":1994.74,"body":"so people can look at it, but they have a whole"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1994.74,"endTime":2003.32,"body":"table of basically how we have this perception that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":1994.74,"endTime":2003.32,"body":"there is a fixed number of species or a fixed number"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2003.32,"endTime":2009.53,"body":"of that we would have learned and has showed up in"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2003.32,"endTime":2009.53,"body":"our textbooks and whatnot. And so to sit with the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2009.53,"endTime":2016.82,"body":"people that, you know, have been studying this for"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2009.53,"endTime":2016.82,"body":"so much longer than the settlers who know so much"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2016.82,"endTime":2024.1999999999998,"body":"more deeply their their ecosystems and how"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2016.82,"endTime":2024.1999999999998,"body":"traditional ecological knowledges can can change the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2024.1999999999998,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"way we and, you know, in the sort of settler science"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2024.1999999999998,"endTime":2032.05,"body":"realm understand place. Right. And so I think that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2032.06,"endTime":2042.47,"body":"it's just it's just so such an interesting example"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2032.06,"endTime":2042.47,"body":"of that dismantling or busting up this notion of not"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2042.47,"endTime":2050.12,"body":"only hegemonic thinking and how stuck we can become,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2042.47,"endTime":2050.12,"body":"but also what happens when we get curious and we"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2050.12,"endTime":2056.75,"body":"allow the people who have been in a space to be the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2050.12,"endTime":2056.75,"body":"leaders of that space in the scientific domain as"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2056.75,"endTime":2065.09,"body":"well. And how can that change the way that we not"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2056.75,"endTime":2065.09,"body":"only see that place, but also imagine our own agency"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2065.09,"endTime":2071.51,"body":"and inquiry, right? Like there is so much more."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2065.09,"endTime":2071.51,"body":"There's so much more. There's always more for us to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2071.51,"endTime":2079.15,"body":"imagine. Right? And so it's very exciting work. I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2071.51,"endTime":2079.15,"body":"can't wait to share the citation with you [cross"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2079.15,"endTime":2087.85,"body":"talk] anyway. I think that's just a small example of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2079.15,"endTime":2087.85,"body":"how we can we can understand how settler colonialism"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2087.85,"endTime":2093.94,"body":"reinforces the mythology of the binary and how that"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2087.85,"endTime":2093.94,"body":"really harms all of us."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2094.68,"endTime":2100.95,"body":"Yeah, well, and I think I've been so"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2094.68,"endTime":2100.95,"body":"I'm a I'm a birdwatcher. I'm a birder. That's that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2100.95,"endTime":2106.56,"body":"my only connection to biology. But I'm also trained"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2100.95,"endTime":2106.56,"body":"as a mathematician, not as a scientist."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2106.59,"endTime":2106.88,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2107.34,"endTime":2111.5299999999997,"body":"So I actually did not have very good"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2107.34,"endTime":2111.5299999999997,"body":"experiences with science classes in middle school."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2111.96,"endTime":2117.86,"body":"And so I tried to kind of avoid science education,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2111.96,"endTime":2117.86,"body":"formal science education. I work with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2117.86,"endTime":2123.71,"body":"science faculty, and so I've learned a lot more"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2117.86,"endTime":2123.71,"body":"about science, epistemology and pedagogy over the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2123.71,"endTime":2131.87,"body":"years. Yeah, but but sometimes I'm reminded that I"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2123.71,"endTime":2131.87,"body":"have these kind of naive understandings of science."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2132.0499999999997,"endTime":2141.04,"body":"Yeah. And as I've been getting into birding, I've"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2132.0499999999997,"endTime":2141.04,"body":"realized it's this kind of binary fixed taxonomy,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2141.04,"endTime":2147.61,"body":"right? That that birds are not, that actually that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2141.04,"endTime":2147.61,"body":"there is an ongoing process of in birding they call"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2147.61,"endTime":2152.1,"body":"it splits and lumps where they're they're looking at"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2147.61,"endTime":2152.1,"body":"different species and realizing, oh, there's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2152.11,"endTime":2156.13,"body":"actually two species here, right? There are"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2152.11,"endTime":2156.13,"body":"different characteristics here. Yeah, these two that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2156.13,"endTime":2162.7,"body":"we thought were different are actually very similar."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2156.13,"endTime":2162.7,"body":"Yeah. And it's not fixed. It's no. And there needs"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2162.7,"endTime":2165.4,"body":"to be you have to have a bit of an openness."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2165.61,"endTime":2165.86,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2166.0,"endTime":2173.02,"body":"To ambiguity and to, I'll use your word,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2166.0,"endTime":2173.02,"body":"humility to say we thought we had it figured out."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2173.3199999999997,"endTime":2178.2999999999997,"body":"But it's an ongoing process of figuring out this,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2173.3199999999997,"endTime":2178.2999999999997,"body":"this world. And I think there's a connection there"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2178.2999999999997,"endTime":2186.73,"body":"to the idea that there are other ways of thinking"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2178.2999999999997,"endTime":2186.73,"body":"and knowing about the natural world that have not"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2186.73,"endTime":2189.85,"body":"been part of our fixed taxonomy in the past. Right."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2186.73,"endTime":2189.85,"body":"And that's okay."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2189.91,"endTime":2197.2,"body":"Yeah, exactly. And exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2189.91,"endTime":2197.2,"body":"stories are part of systems, right? So the stories"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2197.2,"endTime":2203.89,"body":"that we tell and this includes what we perceive as"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2197.2,"endTime":2203.89,"body":"scientific knowledge, is part of a system. And so"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2203.89,"endTime":2210.97,"body":"how do we when we're doing culturally responsive"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2203.89,"endTime":2210.97,"body":"teaching, how do we engage that concept at any level?"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2211.2999999999997,"endTime":2219.91,"body":"We're teaching bird taxonomy? How do we open up the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2211.2999999999997,"endTime":2219.91,"body":"possibility of not only are these categories social"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2219.91,"endTime":2228.2799999999997,"body":"constructs, but how might we allow ourselves to"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2219.91,"endTime":2228.2799999999997,"body":"imagine beyond these constructs? You know, and I"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2228.2799999999997,"endTime":2234.89,"body":"think that's such a freeing feeling, too, for our"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2228.2799999999997,"endTime":2234.89,"body":"students, because when we when we give them finite"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2235.0099999999998,"endTime":2238.64,"body":"understandings or finite sort of definitions of"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2235.0099999999998,"endTime":2238.64,"body":"knowledge,"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2240.81,"endTime":2246.9,"body":"it can be very top down. It can be very like Paulo"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2240.81,"endTime":2246.9,"body":"Freire always wrote about, you know, filling the"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2246.9,"endTime":2253.08,"body":"students as vessels, like filling these vessels. And"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2246.9,"endTime":2253.08,"body":"I think about that even with something like, you"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2253.08,"endTime":2259.14,"body":"know, teaching birding, How do you allow for a"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2253.08,"endTime":2259.14,"body":"culture of sort of what we think of as conditional"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2259.14,"endTime":2267.09,"body":"and plural inquiry? So like not closed ended, but"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2259.14,"endTime":2267.09,"body":"very open ended imaginings, even when we're teaching"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2267.09,"endTime":2274.98,"body":"something that we perceive to be fixed? And how can"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2267.09,"endTime":2274.98,"body":"just unsettling that even the idea that it's fixed"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2275.37,"endTime":2277.85,"body":"allowed for our students to become stronger?"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2278.25,"endTime":2282.15,"body":"Well, thank you, Emily. This has just"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2278.25,"endTime":2282.15,"body":"been delightful and inspirational, and I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2282.15,"endTime":2286.7999999999997,"body":"you taking time to to share with our podcast"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2282.15,"endTime":2286.7999999999997,"body":"audience. It's been it's been good to talk with you"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2286.7999999999997,"endTime":2287.0699999999997,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2287.2799999999997,"endTime":2290.56,"body":"Oh, thank you so much, Derek. I so"},{"speaker":"Emily Affolter","startTime":2287.2799999999997,"endTime":2290.56,"body":"enjoyed our conversation."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2291.99,"endTime":2297.21,"body":"That was Emily Affolter, PhD program"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2291.99,"endTime":2297.21,"body":"faculty at Prescot College. I learned a lot in the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2297.21,"endTime":2301.98,"body":"interview, and I hope you did too. I really"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2297.21,"endTime":2301.98,"body":"appreciated Emily acknowledging the unique role an"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2301.98,"endTime":2307.85,"body":"instructor has, even in a highly equity minded"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2301.98,"endTime":2307.85,"body":"learning environment. Here's something she said that"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2307.85,"endTime":2313.65,"body":"stuck with me. You're in a leadership role that's"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2307.85,"endTime":2313.65,"body":"dextrous and curious about the needs, the skills,"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2313.7999999999997,"endTime":2320.63,"body":"the desires, the purposes of the folks in the room."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2313.7999999999997,"endTime":2320.63,"body":"Years ago I named my blog Agile Learning, and part"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2320.63,"endTime":2325.72,"body":"of me wants to change the name to that entire quote."},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2320.63,"endTime":2325.72,"body":"See the show notes for links to more information"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2325.72,"endTime":2330.67,"body":"about Emily and her work, as well as to a couple of"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2325.72,"endTime":2330.67,"body":"past podcast episodes I mentioned during our"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2330.67,"endTime":2337.09,"body":"conversation. And you'll find a link to the paper in"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2330.67,"endTime":2337.09,"body":"the journal Bioscience that dives into indigenous"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2337.09,"endTime":2343.39,"body":"taxonomies of marine wildlife. I'd love to hear what"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2337.09,"endTime":2343.39,"body":"you have to say about Decolonising marine biology"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2343.75,"endTime":2348.34,"body":"and about culturally responsive teaching. In the"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2343.75,"endTime":2348.34,"body":"show notes, you'll find a link to send me a text"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2348.34,"endTime":2352.81,"body":"message with your thoughts, and you can always email"},{"speaker":"Derek Bruff","startTime":2348.34,"endTime":2352.81,"body":"me at derek@derekbruff. org."}]}