173. Guest: Timothy Kalinowski - Storytelling & Branding

Ever wondered how storytelling can be a game-changer in branding? In this episode of Mindset Cafe, I sit down with Timothy Kalinowski, the master storyteller and president of Lore, to uncover the true power of narrative in cutting through the digital clutter. With over 25 years in communications and advertising, Tim reveals how crafting compelling stories can foster brand loyalty and build a community that resonates with audiences on a much deeper level. From insights drawn from working with industry titans like Starbucks and GE to exploring the transformation of cultural symbols such as Santa Claus, Tim shares how consistent storytelling can shape a brand's identity and trust.

We examine the riveting case studies of Coca-Cola and Pepsi to illustrate the profound impact of brand consistency on consumer trust. Coca-Cola's unwavering brand image, compared to Pepsi's frequent logo changes, underscores how steadfast identity nurtures trust and enhances brand value. We also touch upon the evolving post-pandemic consumer landscape, where transparency and quality reign supreme, as people are more experimental yet more discerning than ever. Join us as we delve into the future of brand development, highlighting the burgeoning role of AI and video content in storytelling, and how these tools can unlock new avenues for creative innovation.

As we wrap up, the focus shifts to practical takeaways for entrepreneurs and marketers aiming to carve out a strong brand presence. From creating authentic brand personas that truly speak to the audience's needs, to the art of crafting engaging social media content that mirrors a captivating story, this episode is packed with actionable insights. Tim and I also reflect on the significance of maintaining authenticity and ethical integrity in business, drawing lessons from long-standing brands that thrive on consistency and quality. Don't miss out on this treasure trove of wisdom—your brand's future could very well depend on it.

https://loretold.com/

Transcript

The Power of Storytelling in Branding

Speaker 1 0:00

Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe. We all about that mindset. Gotta stay focused. Now go settle for the last. It's all in your head how you think you manifest. So get ready to rise, cause we about to be the best. Gotta switch it up. Gotta break the old habits. Get your mind right. Turn your dreams into habits. No negative vibes. What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of the Mindset Cafe podcast.

Speaker 1 0:23

It's your boy, devin, and today we have an inspiring mind with us. He is a creative storyteller. He is the president of Lore. We have Tim Kalinowski with us. He has been shaping how the art of storytelling is for over 25 years. He has really, really perfected or really, you know, became an expert in brand strategy and through basically telling stories. So I want to really dig into why stories are important, how he's built up you know lore, and really just open up his mind, cause I know you guys are gonna get so much knowledge from it. So, timothy, thank you so much for just taking the time to come on today. Thanks, devin, really excited to be here. So let's dive in a little bit. You know, how did you get? How did Laura start? How did you get?

Speaker 2 1:14

into the entrepreneurial space and you know shape around storytelling.

Speaker 2 1:17

That's multiple answers and a lot of questions. Wow, you know I kind of fell into the storytelling, uh organically, if you will. Um, my original goal was to go to business school, which I did, and along the way I discovered communications and advertising and kind of fell in love with it. And once you got that bug, it's pretty hard to pull yourself out of it At least it was for me. So I started this journey in communications about 25 years ago and it's been a super, super fun road.

Speaker 2 1:52

But the catalyst for lore is simply I was running into situations I was working at a large company. I'd been at agencies before no-transcript and I didn't see the value and, as somebody that was managing large budgets, getting the most value out of all of your partners was really important to me. And so when I started lore, I saw an opportunity to take a lot of what I had learned, but do it in a really ethical and straightforward manner, and we do to this day it's 10 years ago. We still do all the pricing totally transparent. We explain everything, so everybody knows what they're getting and there's no kind of hidden fees and disappointment that they didn't get what they wanted.

Speaker 1 2:48

No, I think that's so awesome. I mean just your core values alone. It it rings like bells in my head because that's with Strive 11 Fitness my main business like that's actually why we launched the franchise and everything, and we're not doing it the way other people are doing it just because we know we can get away with it. It's we're sticking to our core values and we're trying to do things a little more ethically and be a little more transparent with things so that people know what they're getting. So I think that's so awesome that you're bringing that into your space. Now, what's the power of storytelling and what is that in terms of marketing?

Speaker 2 3:28

in terms of marketing. Well, I'm going to drop a fact on you. Okay, roughly every day, we see a hundred thousand digital words. I mean. So process that for a second a hundred thousand digital words. Then add video and reels and you know all of the other things that you run into in a day, everything from driving your car to work to what you're seeing in your social feeds. And then, of course, when you're at work, what are you reading and doing? And it's mind-numbing to think of how inundated we are with stuff.

Speaker 2 3:52

So, when you think about storytelling, storytelling is that one thing that can break through the clutter right. When something's compelling and you run into this, I'm sure we all do right. You see something on social media and you're like, oh, and then you sat there and you run into this, I'm sure we all do right. You see something on social media and you're like, oh, and then you sat there and you're like I just got absorbed for three minutes into something and you don't even know why, but it's because it was more of a story, more of a narrative. It's something that captured you and pulled you into, and so in advertising it's the same thing. It's finding those narratives and finding that way that connects with the user or the audience that you're trying to speak with. Those are the reasons why storytelling is so important, because without that, we lose a lot of moments in terms of connecting with our customers.

Speaker 1 4:36

No, I think that is so true and what I've noticed over the years, too, is not just in like marketing, like in terms of social media too, but like sales in general. Right, you know, some of the best salespeople quote unquote salespeople usually just tell stories and connect and give a perspective or shape someone's mind around a you know a thing or a product or a service through story and it resonates with a lot more people than just being like here's our benefits. Here are you know the highlights and so forth, right? So I think that that's so awesome that you've taken that approach and really understand that if you could tell a story and connect with your customers through story, I mean, that's where that, that really that community is built, right? So I know you've had some experience working with some industry giants, let's say like Starbucks. How has that shaped your experience in perspective on branding?

Brand Trust and Consistency

Speaker 2 5:32

Well, I'd go back. You know I've been super lucky to work with a lot of really big name companies, starbucks being one of them. When I first started I worked actually for a creative director owner of the agency I was working with. He actually had helped General Electric write their brand guidelines and so at the time he was still working with them and they became really one of my first large clients and he instilled in me this mission almost. It became to really get into and understand different aspects of a brand and then hold that truth all the way through. And a really good example if you do a little bit of research. And we can't do slideshows here, but Coke and Pepsi is a good example.

Speaker 2 6:22

Although I've never worked with Coke or Pepsi, I've studied them and done some presentations on this. Coke has never really changed their logo, not in any big way. They've been very true to who their brand was since their inception. Whereas if you go and you Google how many times has Pepsi changed their logo? You'll be floored at how many times, over you know 150 years, they've changed their logo.

Speaker 2 6:46

And when you look at just the monetary value of the two brands, coke by far surpasses by hundreds of millions of dollars, the value of Pepsi brand, and it's because there's a trust and a consistency with that.

Speaker 2 7:02

And so, when we think about brands like Starbucks, you pay more for a cup of coffee when you go to Starbucks than you do, you know, going to your local gas station or something, and while some people might go oh well, you know scales of economy or, you know, maybe the business model is different I would argue that it's truly because of the brand.

Speaker 2 7:21

You're paying a little bit more because a brand is nothing more than a contract of trust between two parties. Right, if I trust your brand, I'm willing to pay more because I know the quality I'm going to get out of it, I know the experience I'm going to get out of it and I'm willing to go that extra mile as a consumer to pay more for something that I know I'm going to get and trust because we've all done it right. You've gone to a different coffee shop or you've gone to a different restaurant, or you've tried a different brand of clothing, and then you're disappointed after you do it. But you did it because maybe there was a sale or maybe it looked nice at the time and you kind of weren't sure whether you'd do it, but you're going to give something else to try. That's the value of a brand. It's that trust, it's that you're willing to pay a little bit more and get a little bit more for something that you know the outcome?

Speaker 1 8:06

Yeah, no, definitely, and I do agree with that. I will say myself, personally, I'm a very visual buyer, so if there's a little more colors, a little more craziness to it, I'm more likely to just try it. And it has not worked in my favor 90% of the time, but I do get that. And I mean, think about a watch, right? People buy Rolexes, people buy, you know, these expensive watches. They both tell time, but you buy it because of one, the status, or two, because of the consistency that you've had with that brand or over time, right? Um, now, in terms of creating a brand, actually I want to take a little pivot.

Speaker 1 8:45

I wasn't going to ask this question, but since you brought up Coke, right, and I saw, I saw this on social media and I wanted to see if you knew, if you know it's true or not. Um, I heard that Coke essentially created Santa Claus. Coca-cola brand created Santa Claus. That is a fact. That is okay. I didn't know if that was just like a social media like gig, but that is crazy yeah, I mean, when you there's man, we could get into some crazy places with this.

Storytelling and Audience Connection

Speaker 2 9:13

but there's so many things in commerce that have happened that while we look back and go, that's a little bit weird and probably even borderline ethical. I don't know that. I would question the ethics of Coke with doing that, but they saw an opportunity in the market and they did it. And you know, geico does it today with mascots and while they leverage something that had a lot of history to it, you know it is true, they actually did that and really helped and it's become part of, you know, americana.

Speaker 1 9:47

at this point, yeah, that's what's crazy. It's like nowadays, like something that they created as a marketing, you know, tool or a campaign ended up becoming our society's like culture and something just regular that no one even associates with the brand necessarily anymore. No one even associates with the brand necessarily anymore. But now, when you think about it, they're the only real soda company or really any company that puts Santa Claus on their actual like cans or products and stuff like that. And that's all of a sudden you're like, wow, that I didn't even think about that, and the color schemes and all that kind of stuff is crazy.

Speaker 2 10:24

Right, well, I mean there's a lot of psychology between in into storytelling and advertising, right, cause you want to get into the mind of who your consumers. And over a long, long period of time, companies have learned how to tell stories and how to understand the psychology of their consumer. That's what was happening with Santa Claus when Coke did it. You've seen it with cigarettes and cereal and all kinds of consumer brands for a very, very long time, and the reason is that it connects with consumers and that's you know, as a marketer, ultimately, that's my job is to help my clients find ways to connect. And you know connection over a period does equal sales.

Speaker 2 11:08

And you know a lot of, a lot of companies starting out, and I'd love to know a little bit about your business too. But, um, you know, we, we do a customer acquisition costs a lot of times and it costs money for every customer you acquire. And I don't know if you guys talk about that, um, or you look at that metric when you're trying to get new memberships, but it is a real thing and you know how we go about. It makes a huge difference to that.

Speaker 1 11:32

No, yeah, definitely we do look at a lot of those things. Like I know certain companies will just look like cost per lead and so forth, but for our business, for example, like we do, cost per lead, but then also we have a whole referral system built in right To try to bring, like, the cost of lead, the cost of acquisition, down. You know, further right in in that whole spiel Right Now you mentioned, you know, when you're crafting, let's say, a brand narrative or you're trying to connect with an audience, what are maybe some like crucial elements that really make a lasting connection or impression on an audience.

Speaker 2 12:06

That's a great question Well, so the answer is a non-answer all at the same time. So the first thing I usually try to tell people is do we really understand the audience and are we thinking like the audience first? Because I've seen this too many times where I come into a company and they're very clear on what they think the audience or the customer is and they're not being clear with them and connecting with them where they are right. They want to say, well, here we have quality and we do this and we do that, and they just expect everybody to get all excited and follow them and it's like no, you have to find what excites your customer and then show them why they want to be part of your business, and that's truly kind of. One of the core parts of a good story is really understanding what the person on the other end is consuming.

Creating Brand Avatars for Target Audience

Speaker 1 13:02

Yeah, no, and I think that that was actually a learning curve that even myself, as an entrepreneur, had to learn. Right, you you hear about, you know, brand avatars or customer avatars, and so you, when you're starting off in entrepreneurship, you might even create like three avatars because you're trying to fit all these different molds. And then you're like, well, I could talk to this person this way and this person that way, and when you start marketing to everyone, you start really marketing to no one. And then if you're marketing just like everyone else, or if you're trying to say all your benefits and all your highlights, it almost like comes out as like a vanilla right, it's just like a basic thing, because you're almost like diluting your key point to your key customer. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely thing, because you're almost like diluting your, your key point to your key customer. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 13:46

yeah, absolutely so. One place to start, well, there's understanding who you are as a brand is important. So we'll do um, we call them brand persona exercises and we have kind of a list of different personas and we have pictures and descriptions of what each one is and we'll go through with our clients and say, okay, especially if they're a newer client. You know, obviously the big guys know who they are, but some of the smaller ones, or even midsize companies, they'll go through this exercise and they won't really understand who they are. So understanding who you are is important, right, having your brand and and understanding what that is allows you to create patterns. It allows you to create kind of a foundation, so you kind of know where you're starting from, and then you go out there and you can find who your core customer is.

Speaker 2 14:34

And this is really important, I think, for people that want to grow their business is understanding that you might have a core customer and that you're listening to them and you're speaking their language and they're really accepting it. But then you get to a point where you wonder about growth, and so then there's lots of different ways to look about this, right, are you going to expand your geographic region or where you're selling, to get a larger customer that aligns with your core customer? Or do you need to figure out who an adjacent customer is right? And then, because some people run and they just they cap out who their market is but they can't grow, so then they have to look at adjacent customers and learn who those customers are. And that's when you talk about those I call personas, you're calling avatars, but really that's what we're talking about is thinking like those people and there's all kinds of you know ways to do. I can tell you there's some very inexpensive ways to do it too. There's, you know, if you do a little social listening, and there's some tools out there that you can gather that allow you to do this. But you know a lot of Google searches and things like that for a small business that's just trying to figure out who they're talking to.

Speaker 2 15:44

Go think about who your customer is and go think about the cars they drive and the clothes they're wearing and, you know, really start to get into their mindset and think about what is their daily routine. Are they a mom or a dad? Are they a single parent? Are they, you know, two parents working together? What is their day life. What kind of jobs do they have, you know? Are they stopping at Starbucks for coffee in the morning or are they just racing out the door? They work from home and they're leisurely, you know, grinding their own beans.

Speaker 2 16:11

But, you know, you start to get into that kind of a mode of what are these people doing every day and where can I reach them and how can I reach them and what are they thinking about and what's important to them. And that's when you start to get what we call those aha moments, when somebody looks at your product or your service and they go oh yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing that I've been looking for. I didn't even know this existed. Or boy, I'm so glad I ran into this brand. They really seem to know me and then they start exploring and, you know, sometimes it takes a few times of them checking into you or seeing you.

Speaker 1 16:43

But those are the things that work? No, definitely, of them checking into you or seeing you, but those are the things that work, no, definitely. And I think that even for us, like we, we actually built out you know, those person, those personas or those profiles, right, avatars, and for the same person, but three versions of the same person, like one that would be a mom, one that's not a mom, right, but all but all that have similar lifestyles. And then, almost we created, like in our own, I guess, head, but you know, for the, for the company.

Speaker 1 17:09

It's like would this group of three women, right, buy this, right? Would these three ladies buy this? And if not, why, and so forth, right, to try to connect with it. But also, how would they talk about this? How would they think about this? What does their life revolve around? You know this kind of solution or problem. Now, what do you think besides, let's say, a company or a brand new entrepreneur starting off not building a persona or a avatar, what's maybe another common mistake when they're coming to try to connect with their audience?

Speaker 2 17:42

I kind of mentioned it before, but it's, you know.

Speaker 2 17:46

Know, if you go to our website, the first thing we say is it's not about you, it's about them, and that I think customer, customer, customer, customer first. Right, we've heard this forever and ever, but there is a lot of truth to it and really knowing that you need to separate yourself once you've learned about who they are, that's fine, as long as you can take yourself out of it, then you'll be more successful, because too many times companies, their ego, gets in the way. Or you're developing a product and you've worked really hard on this product and you've probably had some research and some Intel that went into that. That doesn't mean that the Intel that went into making a product or creating a service brand is exactly the same as connecting with your customer when you're trying to communicate with them. And one of the largest problems I usually see is people want it to be about them or their product and it's. It's no longer your product, it's, you know, jim Smith's product. He just doesn't know it yet and you need to make sure that he understands that.

Building Brand Authenticity Through Storytelling

Speaker 1 18:50

No, I think that's, and it goes even to. I learned this lesson when, even for our gyms, like, building out the merchandise line, right, it's not about what you think looks cool or what you like as a design, but what's your customer wear it? Right, you know what's your customer actually like it. You know from the fonts, from the colors, from you know the graphics, all those kinds of things. Like, even at that base of a level, it's like, just because you think it's cool doesn't mean you're going to make money from it or your brand's going to really connect with the people you're trying to connect with. Right, absolutely. So what would you say in like a highly competitive market, right, what would be a good starting approach for a company, let's say, even in the fitness industry, right, just as you know, I'm in the fitness industry and it's. It's one of those things where there's gyms, you know, on every other street and everyone's coming after the same clients or you know genre of clients. In that kind of market, where would your brand strategy start?

Speaker 2 19:49

Lots of questions, so we call them discovery sessions, and one of the reasons that I know it's very true that people talk about themselves first is because when we go in and ask a question first is because when we go in and ask a question, I usually have to ask why or how or what does that mean? And we do it endlessly. You know, I might ask five or six times a why question before I get the answer. That starts to ring true, I think. So many times we get wrapped up in trying to I don't want to call it robotic, but it is a little robotic, right Like we think we need to sound a certain way in business or we need to answer a certain way, and and we don't want to we want to hold things close to the vest and not be transparent or just authentic, right. And I think that's where this authenticity is a huge, huge measurement 91% of consumers want authenticity of their brand, of the products they're buying. They want to feel safe with it, because there's a lot of cynicism too. So when we start to ask those questions and we start to get those why questions and we start to build that authenticity of who that customer is and how they interact with our product or service, that becomes the thing.

Speaker 2 21:10

Um, I just had a ironically, a call from somebody that uh, wanted to do like a yoga studio, and you know they're running into some of the same questions and I started to ask them well, okay, there's, how many yoga studios are in your city? You know they're running into some of the same questions and I started to ask them well, okay, there's, how many yoga studios are in your city? You know, what is the break even point and how many memberships do you need in a month? And we're going through the business case to understand what they're trying to get to. And then I started asking questions about well, what do you want the vibe to be? What do you want? You know, what do you want the people to look? Like that come in here and we started peeling away layers of onions and it got very interesting. And what was ironic about the entire conversation was it was less about this having a yoga studio that felt really zen and calm and quiet, and they wanted it to be more fun and they wanted it to be about a place for friends to go or, you know, the clientele could laugh and just feel at ease and not feel uptight. And you know, as we went on, you started to realize like, wow, okay, you have a brand in your head, but you're you know they'd already had a logo designed and some other stuff. I'm like, yeah, these two things are kind of like this and so beautiful branding. You know, great, and I think that probably can still do something.

Speaker 2 22:31

Um, but it doesn't immediately say like fun, friendly, light-hearted, you know, that's not what. What rang out? True? And so I was like, okay, that was probably where you needed to start the conversation. Is you know, what do you want this to all be? And now, as a new entrepreneur, I totally realized that I'm sure you needed to start the conversation. Is you know, what do you want this to all be? And now, as a new entrepreneur, I totally realized that I'm sure you went through this too. It's scary to try and define those types of things and like own something, so you know, intimate, right away with a customer, like, oh, I really want it. But that is that.

Speaker 1 23:04

Unfortunately, those risks as entrepreneurs is part of what makes you an entrepreneur, and trying to get into that really is part of it yeah, no, I think that you know asking those why, questions, and and that really diving into what the purpose of it is and what the real brand thought and vision really is, you know, is important.

Speaker 1 23:27

I mean even going into. When we teach our trainers and our staff you know how to sell. It's like someone might come in and say why they want to lose weight. It's like, okay, cool, but why? And then you start asking, you start diving in and then you start finding their actual reason for wanting to come into the gym, for their purpose or motivation, so that when they're not feeling like it or they're going through that rough patch or whatever, you can talk to them and remind them of their purpose, their why or their starting point, right. So I really think that's the unique essence of maybe a brand or of something is when you can know your why, and not just surface level why, but a few levels down right and really dive into it. Then you can know your why, and not just surface level why, but a few levels down right and really dive into it. Then you can really find your separating factors.

Speaker 2 24:09

That I mean. I'm so impressed with what you guys are doing. Just the fact that you have, you know avatars already to start with, I think that's fantastic. Do you guys ever like take notes and like start to document all of the answers to those? Why questions to build out you know, different dimensions of those personas?

Speaker 1 24:29

Yeah, so it definitely started as like one. Well, it started with like six, and that's where the issue was right. It was like six at, basically, you know, 18 to 25, then 26. So you know, and then it was like, okay, well, let's, let's hone this in, let's create basically the friend group that we created and that has evolved over time with seeing our gym and the growth of it and seeing, you know, problems that we've solved and things that we've had to adjust, and, you know, changing the terminology on things to fit those actual avatars right, instead of just having try to make the avatar fit us it makes total sense because that's a great example of how you know as a business.

Speaker 1 25:14

You've listened to your customers and you've started to layer in what makes them tick and I'm sure that's helped you guys grow yeah, no, and I mean that goes into, like, when I was talking about the t-shirts and stuff like that, like a lot of the designs that you know we even have for our members and stuff not my favorite, but the customers love them, right? You know, like, if I could create the ones I would create, they'd be a little bit, you know, a little more hardcore, a little more, you know. But it's like that's not what our customers like, right? That's not what they buy, that's not what they resonate with, that's not what they refer and buy the same thing for their friend and get their friends in here. So it's like you learn and you almost have to have a sense of humility to realize that it's not about you and you don't know everything right out the gate, right, you don't know what you don't know. You have to be open-minded. You have to be open-minded, you have to actually listen and document and then adapt accordingly, right?

Speaker 2 26:08

Oh man, ding ding, ding, ding ding. Yes, absolutely 1,000, gazillion percent Like that is the thing that will help move a business as much as anything else. That you're going to do is understanding what that is and reshaping it and then, you know, going just fearlessly after the things that you've learned, because you'll be so much better for it no-transcript.

Speaker 1 27:00

Everyone else is doing it that way. This is what's working for me, right? So over the years, in digital marketing, or in social media, or in marketing in general, right, storytelling and the methods of it have evolved. What have you noticed from the evolution of the storytelling, especially in social media?

Creating Intrigue in Social Media

Speaker 2 27:18

So there's a few things right, and I bring this up all the time and I used it in trainings too. There is a guy named Gustav Breitig and if you go look it up, he was kind of the first person to start to plot out what a story was and what he realized by going to the theater and reading books and seeing things. He was starting to see a pattern of what a good story was. And that pattern is still taught today. You still see it today, and it does map out kind of, you know, like a pyramid, and one side has a rising action, the other side has a falling action. And so if you can think, in the middle of a story any story, book, movie you usually get to some kind of pinnacle, some kind of point of great tension that needs to be solved. And so the rising action is this explanation or this buildup of anticipation of something happening to get people excited. And then you see building posts. What's so easy for people to do and I see this all the time and people just, you know, 25 posts here, or 25 likes here, 100 likes there. I call that the friends and family, because most likely if you're in that range, it's your friends and your co workers and your family members and your mom and your dad and your grandma and your grandpa. Those are the people that are liking those posts. But to get to that, you know thousand, 10,000, a hundred thousand. You know what is that.

Speaker 2 28:59

And I like to look for things where you start to see something that makes you question it. Right, that rising action like what's happening, I'm intrigued here, that's interesting. And then you get to the next level where it's like oh, okay, here's something that I can, you know, sink my teeth into. And then there's usually some kind of finish where you're like okay, that was entertaining, that was worth watching. But you usually have to have those three elements. And it can be, you know, anything, any time, any place. That stuff can happen. You just need to be a little bit mindful about it and sometimes it happens organically. I can tell you I've had social posts that just you know, I thought they might be cool, but it was something that I witnessed had those elements to it. And you know, 200,000 likes later you're like well, I guess people liked it, you know so.

Speaker 1 29:53

Yeah, no, I think it's crazy. Like there are some posts I mean even like on my personal page, where it's like you don't think it's going to get any likes. You're kind of just posting it as some information and all of a sudden, like that post got a thousand likes and I was like what the heck? The one I put way more work into and I thought it was going to be, you know, a viral hit and it was like 10 likes, you know, and that's the thing is like you have to really think about you know, what are you? What is the story that you're telling? What is the? Is there a plot to the story? Is there something that's going to resonate with with the audience, right, or is you? Are you just talking about you or, you know, you just want that social praise?

Speaker 2 30:30

right, yeah, that social praise. Right yeah, think of that rising action, that like it's that part where people get pulled in and they're like they might not even sure why they're getting pulled in, but it's something that's oh, intriguing, interesting. You know what I mean Squirrel, you know riding behind the boat. It's interesting, it's intriguing. You know what was? You know it was like one of the most viral posts of all time. Right, they're the water skiing squirrel, yeah, right so. But you get pulled into it. You're like, well, what is that? And then it, you know, you all said you're like, okay, this is what happens, and then it's over.

Speaker 2 31:01

But those, those moments are why people get pulled into something. So when you're making a post, make sure that you, you're starting the rising action should be that intrigue, the thing. That kind of goes, oh, that's interesting. And then you, especially if you're selling a product or a brand, you go, oh, here's what we're selling. Right, you announced that. And then you kind of pay it off with and here's how it matters to you and here's why it's going to make your life better. And here's, you know that's, that's a sales process for you.

Future Trends in Brand Development

Speaker 1 31:34

No, I mean, that makes total sense. Now, one of the areas I know that you know I've seen you talk about, about customer loyalty and how it can enhance storytelling or basically a brand's importance with their storytelling. Can you dive into that a little bit? Well, I think so.

Speaker 2 31:53

Loyalty is a really hard conversation these days when it comes to brands and part of it.

Speaker 2 31:57

You know, post pandemic we've seen a certain uptick in levels of just cynicism.

Speaker 2 32:03

You know people are willing to try out different things because you know they feel a little bit misinformed by brands or maybe misled by brands, and so if something comes up cheaper and the economy hasn't been, you know, flourishing fantastically for everybody, so you know people might be willing to take a leap on something else.

Speaker 2 32:26

So when we get into that, like, how do you really get your brand and your customers to invest in you consistently? That's a really hard question and that's where you want to be transparent and you want to deliver the same level of quality every time, everywhere, to everybody, because, like I said before, brand is trust. Then if they trust you, they might deviate off and try the lesser, you know, less expensive product or service. Chances are they're going to come back because if you're really doing a good job of of that authentic, real, um, tried, true and tested delivery that happens every time it's going to work and it's going to come back. But people are cynical and people do want to know that what they're investing in or buying. They can trust and they can believe in and it's going to deliver every time.

Speaker 1 33:22

No, that definitely makes sense. What maybe future trends do you see in the world of brand development and storytelling? You know, leading up to everything that you've seen thus far, so obviously we have to bring up AI right.

Speaker 2 33:39

Ai is going to be a huge tool Moving forward. I I can also tell you, and it's been this way for the last 15 years, video is the growing trend right. A visual is like 60,000 times more powerful than the written word in terms of how your mind calculates it. So when they say, like a visuals, you know, worth 1000 words, it is quite literally true. But video kind of expands that visual nature into something much more dynamic. I think it's personally. I think it's one of the reasons.

Speaker 2 34:16

I think there's two reasons TikTok has been so successful. One, it's a pure video format, it's not still and the other one is it's delivering the for you. It's not about who you know and it's not about following your friends, it's about discovery, and I think people really like that too. So that is a trend that has been happening and will continue to happen. And when you add AI into that mix, I'm not saying that I really believe people want AI.

Speaker 2 34:44

You know personas and people and you know kind of fake things, but as a tool I see it. It's already happening and I think it's going to get much, much better, much quicker. And I can point to other technologies and other things. They've been in the last 25 years that I've seen where people were like, oh, maybe, maybe not, and every time it's become a gigantic thing. Ai will be a very, very big thing in the next five years. I think probably in the next 24 months we're going to see some significant changes. But if you had this conversation 10 years from now, we're going to be laughing going remember, before AI existed, how did we survive? It's probably going to be something really crazy like that, but there's definitely powerful tools that are coming up.

Speaker 1 35:29

I mean, I was actually having a similar conversation where I was driving with my wife and I was like, remember, because we still had the MapQuest days, right, we still we still knew that. And so I was like, did you print them out too? Yeah, yeah, I was like remember when we had to use MapQuest? And she was like, yeah, I was like dude, if MapQuest was still around, I was like we would be hurting because of how dependent we are on even so much.

Harnessing AI for Creative Innovation

Speaker 1 36:03

As you know, I want to arrive at this place at this time. When should I leave? Right Now, taking that into like business and with AI, it's like right now, majority of people that are using AI, you can kind of spot it because they're not, they haven't learned how to kind of work it as much, and it's very, again, vanilla. But if you're not learning how to use AI and understanding that it is going to be part of the future, whether you like it or not, then you know you're going to be left behind once. Once it kind of comes around. So I think that is huge that you did talk about that and you did mention it, because it's a tool right At the end of the day. It is a tool. You still have to have your own personal creative touch to that tool, or else you're going to be just like every other brand that puts the same question into that AI. You're going to all sound the same right.

Speaker 2 36:51

Yeah, well, I mean, there's a slight age gap between you and I and I'm not even going to guess what it is, because I'm sure it favors you more than me, but you know. So the MapQuest is a great example because you know, I grew up that we actually had to unfold maps and read the maps to go places and there was no computers that were going to do it for you, and the hardest part was to refold the map. And there's going to be a segment of your audience that really understands that pain and that pressure of how terrible that was. Um, but yeah, I mean there's a bunch in that, that is true. Um, I think the ai tools that I've seen you, you know, chat, gtp, all of them a lot of times the output doesn't sound, it's human, but human esque kind of a thing right now.

Speaker 2 37:41

And, quite frankly, we've done, you know, I've kind of tested the team a little bit and said, okay, you guys have to come up with ideas, and then you can use AI to come up with ideas, and then you can use AI to come up with ideas.

Speaker 2 37:54

And I just wanted to see, and most of the time, the ideas that we come up with are significantly better than what AI is coming up with.

Speaker 2 38:02

I do see some interesting nuggets with the AI, and just you know when we're trying to work with it. But when you start to use some of the writing tools and some of the other tools and you use it as a foundational thing, you'll realize that it kind of is a good starting point on certain things, but you're going to have to redo it, rewrite it and adjust it, but it's a little bit easier sometimes to edit than to start from scratch, and so from that standpoint, that's where I really see some of those tools being really fantastic. Today, as a creative person and then as a task person, as somebody who's got to get a lot of tasks done, I've noticed that you know, I've been able to personally use AI to really crunch data, crunch information, and you know, if you're, once you've learned how to use some of them as a real tool, you can import a ton of information into it and then ask it to summarize it, and it's pretty powerful for things like that.

Speaker 1 38:59

No, I do agree with that and I think, as more of the visionary of my company too, it's like I can, I'll use it to help generate ideas, and then you have to take your own spin off of it and you almost allow it to help you open up your own mind, right, and especially, cause, if you're thinking about the same thing and this goes for anything in life when you're really focused on something like and you can't take your mind off of it, you almost are putting a wall around it, right, because you started to limit yourself. So by putting what you have in and it throwing out some ideas, all of a sudden these little thought bubbles start coming up and then you throw that back in and it throwing out some ideas. All of a sudden, these little thought bubbles start coming up and then you throw that back in and you just keep doing it. All of a sudden, this bubble has expanded and now you're like, okay, now I have some things to work with, and then you start putting your your touch on everything. So I think that's so awesome.

Speaker 1 39:44

Um, you know, one question I like to ask and I don't like to tell anyone beforehand because I liked it to be authentic. Right, this is your legacy wall, right Timothy's legacy wall. What is one message that you would leave for up and coming entrepreneurs, up and coming marketers, or just the up and coming generations that you have learned through your journey and your career in your life?

Speaker 2 40:10

Gosh, so many, so many. Uh, you know just as a matter, I think, personally, from uh. You know what we're talking about learning lessons, be authentic, be true, um, understand that it's not okay if you're um going to chase paths and things that don't meet your core values. You know, understand who you are, what those values are and, honestly, be ethical, be a good human, and it does come back. You know, when you go into a room and people understand that what you say is what you're going to do and you have that kind of trust already with them and they understand that you are somebody that they can rely on. It goes a lot further and I, I think, as a brand or company or business, that is something that you know.

Speaker 2 41:11

There's a quote that I think I've maybe didn't even understand at the time, but simply said it's, you know, things done well never go out of style, and I think it doesn't matter whether it's in sports, whether it's in fashion, whether it's, you know, making a really great hamburger. If you do it well, it never goes out of style. You know there's restaurants in this country that have been around for 150 years because they've made the same thing over and over and over again, they've perfected it and they do it well, and it's never gone out of style, and so that would be my message Just be ethical, be true, know who you are and be okay with that, and then do things really really well.

Speaker 1 41:52

Yeah, I think that's so awesome. That is probably one of the best you know lessons I've heard thus far, and we're like 160, 170 episodes in and I want to just add to that it goes more than just business. That's in life, right. More people connect with you and more people trust you and you'll have better relationships if you hold true to what you just said. So I think that is so awesome that you said that. Where can people connect with you? You know personally, and then with the brand.

Speaker 1 42:23

Well it'll be on the show notes as well.

Personal Branding and Audience Engagement

Speaker 2 42:28

Yeah. So here's the thing. Website is loretoldcom. I know there's a lot of it's so funny and my teenage daughter thinks it's really funny now that lore has become a common used term with everybody what's your lore, what's? And I probably need to jump on the marketing of that a little bit more. But so it's loretoldcom and I think it's just a very fitting name for what we do. And, of course, linkedin. You could look up loretold on LinkedIn. My profile is Timothy Kalinowski and you can look that up on LinkedIn as well. Those are probably the best places to get me and if you DM me, you know we'll get you my phone number and we'll start a one on one conversation right away. No, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 43:13

And, guys, it'll get you my phone number and we'll start a one-on-one conversation right away. No, that's awesome. And, guys, it'll be in the show notes. You know, make sure you guys share this episode with a friend. Make sure you guys give us that five-star review. I know you guys took away something, because I personally took away a lot. So, timothy, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to hop on and drop some knowledge for the Mindset Cafe. Yeah, no problem. Thanks, devin, I really appreciate it. It's been great.