190. Guest: Jem Fuller - Conscious Communication

Jem Fuller shares his journey from adventurer to leadership coach and author, emphasizing the profound importance of conscious communication. This insightful discussion highlights the role of mindfulness, the barriers to effective dialogue, and the pivotal 'why' behind our conversations, offering listeners tools to elevate their communication skills.

• Jem's diverse experiences shape his perspective on communication 
• Emphasizes the significance of cross-cultural understanding 
• Mindfulness meditation as a tool for effective listening 
• Identifies common barriers like emotional dysregulation 
• Insights from his book, tailored for fostering empathy in communication 
• Encourages reflection on the deeper purposes of dialogue 
• Simple mindset shifts to enhance everyday communication 

Thank you for sharing this journey with us! Let's continue to grow together, and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review!

https://www.instagram.com/jemfuller/
https://jemfuller.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Embracing Cross-Cultural Connections
• 9:09 Transforming Life Experiences Into Coaching
• 17:40 Mastering Conscious Communication for Effective Dialogue
• 30:59 Effective Listening and Communication Dynamics
• 38:16 Discovering the Why in Communication
• 44:13 Empowering Communication With Jem Fuller

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe. We all about that mindset. Gotta stay focused. Now go settle for the last. It's all in your head how you think you manifest. So get ready to rise, cause we about to be the best. Gotta switch it up. Gotta break the old habits. Get your mind right. Turn your dreams into habits. No negative vibes, only positive vibes.

Speaker 1: 0:19

What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of the Mindset Cafe podcast. It's your boy, devin, and today I'm honored. I'm excited to have an amazing guest, jem Fuller. He is an author, he is a TEDx speaker, he is a coach, he is a retreat leader. Jem has lived a fascinating life in a very diverse life, from barefoot backpacking to fire dancing, to the corporate side, right. So I know one of those areas maybe not the fire dancing may resonate with you. Hey, never know, maybe it might be the fire dancing, but I wanted to bring him on because I've watched his TEDx, I've listened to some of his stuff on social media and he has such a unique way of thinking and he's able to connect all that through, you know, relating it to story. So, jim, thank you so much for taking the time to come on today, man.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Hey Devin, it's an honor to be here. Dude, thank you so much for having me on your show.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Of course, I know we're at different parts of the globe right now, so I definitely take it. You know, don't take it lightly that you made it a part of your day to come on, but I want to start off. Before we get into you know all the amazing accomplishments that you've had. Let's dive into your background. How did you get into? You know your start of you know, being an author, being a TEDx speaker. What was the initial start? You know what was your first job? Like that route.

Speaker 2: 1:40

Wow, man, it's a big story, right, I'm 53 years old. It's like a 53-year-old story. How did I end up here? And it's kind of cool because, you know, with retrospection, you know, and the benefit of hindsight, I look back to all the different chapters of my life and, you know, I always just kind of followed my heart really around the world and through my life I just kind of followed what I wanted to do and I wasn't. I didn't do the normal thing, you know, like when I finished school I didn't go to university, I didn't get a job, I didn't do the corporate game, I didn't. I didn't follow the system. Actually I was. I was anti-establishment man. When I was younger I was like am I allowed to swear on your show, can I?

Speaker 1: 2:20

cuss on your show your show.

Speaker 2: 2:25

Can I cut on your show? You're good? Okay, all right, because I don't want to upset anyone. But when I was younger man I was a punk. I was like fuck the system, I don't want to be a part of that, you know, and I went and lived in squats in london and was barefoot backpacking around india and the subcontinent for years, man, like best part of a decade. I was just kind of bumming around the world and you know, and that's where the fire dancing and the tattooing came in, and kindergarten teacher in Taiwan for a year and motorcycle courier and laborer and volunteer in third world countries and just kind of cruising man, you know, and so. But I just didn't want to be a part of the system and at the time I didn't have any grand plan, you know. I just was like um, I don't know, I was just kind of living life, right, quite, an alternative life.

Speaker 2: 3:08

But I had this massive drive to get to really foreign cultures. I didn't want to go and travel to places that were like Australia. I wanted to travel to places that were really different. And even more than that, I was driven to connect with people cross-culturally. I wanted to find a way to connect with you know, a devout Muslim in the mountains of Pakistan and connect and break bread together and eat food and find out what we had in common, you know. Or I wanted to connect with a Buddhist monk in the backwaters of Laos and Vietnam and sit down and find what we had in common, you know. Or a Hindu in the mountains of Himalaya, you know, in India.

Speaker 2: 3:46

So I was always driven to connect with people cross-culturally. So now when I look back and I go, wow, okay, so what I do now as a coach, as a leadership coach and a retreat facilitator, is I help people communicate more effectively and connect cross-culturally, even cross-culturally within an organization. So you might have someone in the corporate world that needs to connect with someone who's in a different sector and the language isn't there or the understanding isn't there. Or you might even have someone from the sales department who needs to create more effective communication and connection with someone in the finance department, you know, and they might be fighting with each other and I can help them actually build a bridge between that divide of difference and find a way to get on the same page together in a corporate sense.

Speaker 2: 4:33

So now when I'm coaching leaders in the corporate world, I'm like ah that's why I was so fascinated in that earlier stuff, you know, and I've always been fascinated in human behavior as well. So you know, I did an eight-year stint in a suit and a tie when I became a dad. I went and got a job and, and you know, I spent eight years in a multinational and I did quite well, you know. I climbed the ladder and I ended up having 150 staff and I, you know, my, the division of my business was turning over 100 million bucks a year, you. So there was all of that corporate side of things that I didn't really enjoy, but I could do it. But what I loved about it was the leadership and the coaching and the leadership development stuff that we did and understanding human behavioral styles and understanding neuro-linguistic programming and understanding how to influence and engage people and how to communicate more effectively in the workplace. I loved all of that sort of stuff. This is a very long answer to your question, dude, but I'm getting there, it's great.

Speaker 1: 5:32

No, it is great, it is great.

Speaker 2: 5:35

And so then, in the last year of my time in senior leadership, the company that I worked for engaged an external coach and he came in and I was in a group of the senior leaders and we went away on a retreat and he was sharing with us all of this stuff and I was just blown away by it, like understanding the matrix of the code of human behavior, and he was a human behavioral expert. I was like, wow, man, this stuff is fascinating, this is cool. I said to him what do you do? And he goes this I teach this, I coach people and I teach this stuff. And I was like I want to do that Anyway.

Speaker 2: 6:10

So then insert midlife crisis and I ended up losing my job, losing my marriage, losing my house. I kept my two sons, thankfully, but I jumped both feet in the deep end of coaching and I went and studied coaching at an institute here in Australia and I started my coaching practice, man, and I didn't know what I was doing, but I knew it's what I wanted to do and I just jumped both feet in and um, and that was 12 years ago and and I haven't worked another job since so I want to, I do have to ask.

Speaker 1: 6:41

So you mean, your travels and your journey were definitely vast right, and so you were born in Australia, if I'm not mistaken right.

Speaker 2: 6:52

I grew up in Australia. I was born in the Netherlands, in Europe. My dad was from England. My mom is Australian, going back six generations back to Scotland and Ireland.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Okay, australian, going back six generations back to Scotland and Ireland, so okay. So you, you grew up in Australia and then you did all this traveling. What made you circle back, full circle to Australia? You know in in ending, you know seeing so many different parts of the world.

Speaker 2: 7:19

I fell in love with an Australian girl okay, fair enough.

Speaker 1: 7:23

Fair enough. Um, what? What, when you were traveling and you were going to these different places, what led you to make the next decision of where you wanted to go? I mean, you it's not like it didn't sound like you were going from like one country just to the next boarding country, like it's. You know, you're going to vastly different areas to experience. You know the diversity of of the social, you know the social experience and their culture and stuff like that. So what made you decide to go, you know, to that next destination?

Speaker 2: 7:57

on a whim, brother on a whim. I mean like I'd be somewhere and I'd meet someone and they'd go, oh man, have you checked out this place? I'm like, no, that sounds cool, I want to go there, right? Or I'd run out of money and I'd be like, where can I earn some money? And, and you know, someone would say, oh, we just, we just were teaching English in Taiwan and, um, you know, you didn't need any qualifications, you can just go there and get a job teaching English and earn US dollars. And I I was like, cool, I'm going there. So I ended up spending a year and a half in Taiwan, you know. And then you're in Taiwan and you meet someone who goes, oh man, have you ever been here? And I'm like, no, I want to go there. So it was like that, bro.

Speaker 1: 8:37

That's, that's crazy. I mean, I personally couldn't do that. That that takes a another level of not just risk but willing to explore and the uncertainty behind it. You know, like that I do commend you for it. Like that is, it is a unique trait but also the experiences and the, the life experiences and like just the knowledge that I'm sure you've gained from that was unbeatable. You know, you can't learn a lot of that stuff at a university, right?

Speaker 2: 9:07

so, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think the tricky part is because thank you for for saying that um, for me back in those times I didn't see it as especially courageous or especially um, you know, I didn't see it as special, it was just me, I was just being me, you know, and I didn't see it as special, it was just me, I was just being me, you know. And yeah, I was an adrenaline junkie, you know, jumping out of planes and you know, trekking over the highest highway in the world from Pakistan into China and then trying to sneak on the back of trucks, hidden on the back of trucks, illegally into Tibet, and all of this adventure stuff to me was fun. I'm like this is cool, so it didn't seem special to me at the time. The tricky part is because there's other people, there's plenty of other adventurers like me who were just bumming around the world seeking adventure.

Speaker 2: 9:58

The tricky part is translating that now, in these chapters of my life. How do I translate that into something valuable for other people? How do I translate that into being able to run a successful coaching practice and raise my kids and support the family? Because I didn't have qualifications, I didn't have a university degree, I didn't have a resume, I didn't have a CV, I didn't have any of that, and so that's been an interesting. It's been interesting figuring out how to translate it into a valuable service for others in the real world, where I can earn money and be a part of our western society. That's been, um, something that I've had to figure out, and not many people can do that, you know so yeah, no, I I definitely say that.

Speaker 1: 10:41

That is true, not a lot of people can do it. But what I will say is that, even like with my business, I own a gym and a gym franchise and when we're looking for trainers, I don't care necessarily what certifications you have, right, because I know some trainers that are not certified that know way more than other trainers that have four or five certifications. Right, just because you know the knowledge, you know that you read and you passed the test doesn't necessarily mean that you've internalized it and you can actually demonstrate it and utilize it. So I think it's one of those things where your life experiences teach not just that same knowledge, but even more knowledge, because you're getting to experience it and learn more than just a paragraph or a chapter in a book. Right, you're getting to see how people interact.

Speaker 1: 11:29

I mean, at the end of the day, why I say it's, it's commendable, and it's not even just a normal risk, like it's a risk to move States. Right, you know to upend your life and just move States. You know, because your family, your whole life, we're we're creatures of habit. You humans are creatures of habit typically, and so you're comfortable. You don't want to get uncomfortable. So you stay where you're born and most people, you know that's just how they grow up.

Speaker 1: 11:52

So just moving states is is already, you know, crazy. You were moving countries and and you know, and not, and not even in the same you know, uh, ethnicity, and so it wasn't like you know ethnicity, so it wasn't like you know, you knew how to speak one language and you're just trying to stay within that, those borders. You were going all over the place and you're like I'm going to figure it out when I get there. So that's why I said that's commendable on that aspect for sure, because that is another level of risk taking as well as uncertainty. You know most people wouldn't take for sure.

Speaker 1: 12:21

So I think that the coaching that you do offer and the knowledge that you do have can't be replicated as easily as someone that goes to just a university and learns the same as, let's say, you, me, the next person and we're all teaching the same exact thing. So I think that that is a unique twist on yours and I think that that's you know. One of the highlights that people should really recognize with you is that you've learned not just how to be a thoughtful individual or how to do conscious communication, but you've learned communication on a full another level, because you've gone to other places and seen society and culture in a completely different lens, not one time, but multiple times, and you're able to intertwine every aspect of your journey into your coaching.

Speaker 2: 13:12

Yeah, yeah, thank you, that's true and I mean, look, that's the reason, one of the reasons that I'm lucky enough to be good at my job and good at what I do and people know that I'm authentic. It's like I didn't just read it in a textbook, like you said, and then I'm just regurgitating stuff out of a textbook and I don't suggest for my clients to start to create habitual daily practices that I don't already practice. It's not like I'm saying you need to go and create a daily meditation practice, but I'm not doing it. Or it's not like I say you need to to go and create a daily meditation practice and but I'm not doing it, you know. Or it's not like I say you need to, whatever it is, any of the work that I do, I live and breathe it. So there's that authenticity there and and it does, it means a lot. And you know, nobody ever asks me for qualifications. You know I run a high ticket, a high ticket retreat in the Himalayan mountains where we transform lives, and it's all word of mouth, it's all off reputation from doing it for 10 years, and people never say what are your qualifications to do this or how are you? You know, it's just never a question. People just get the authenticity. They come, they have the transformational experience and they're like whoa, wow, you've changed my life, dude. And then they can tell other people about it. So, yeah, look, I love that I don't spend money on marketing. My clients come to me through referrals and it's all based off doing good work, which is beautiful. Hey, you just reminded me of something, man. I took it for granted.

Speaker 2: 14:41

I used to get a one-way ticket to a foreign country and just have a one-way ticket, get off at the airport and have nothing planned. You know, I just have a backpack and figure it out right? I've got a 20-year-old son, I've got a 20, 18-year-old and my partner has 17 and 15-year-olds, so we've got four of them in our blended family. And my 20-year-old went traveling on his own last year and before he was going he said Dad, what do I do when I get to a foreign city in Europe and no one speaks English and I don't know where to go? What do I do? I pointed at his iPhone and I said dude, you've got an iPhone. What do you mean? It's like all there, everything you need is there. I mean you can literally tell your iPhone to translate. Go up to someone and say, how do I say where is a hotel in French, and everything you need is on your iPhone. I said, dude, I was traveling before smartphones were even thought of.

Speaker 2: 15:36

I used to have a. It was called the Lonely Planet Travel Guide book. I used to have a lonely planet buried in the bottom of my backpack somewhere and occasionally I'd pull it out and look at it, but mainly I'd just kind of get off and walk up to strangers and just go. You know, with a little bit of their language, which that I'd learned on the plane, just go help that's funny, though I mean it's so crazy.

Speaker 1: 16:01

I mean now, even with like ai and everything, they have headphones that can translate automatically as someone's talking to you and stuff, or even like those metaglasses, but doing it the way you did it, I mean I'm not. I never traveled like that, but I remember even having to drive with MapQuest and printing out directions and using a map that way. It's like if you miss a turn, you got to figure things out and it's no rerouting. So I did want to mention something. You did mention meditation, right, and I want to ask what do you believe or, in your opinion, how does meditation, or mindful meditation, play a role in communication or improving relationships, or does it?

Speaker 2: 16:47

Yeah, 100%. I mean I engage mindfulness meditation as opposed to transcendental meditation or mantra meditation where people repeat a saying, whatever. My preferred meditation is mindfulness meditation and that, quite simply, is an observation of the present moment. You're just quite simply observing whatever you can notice in consciousness in that moment. So, whether you're noticing sounds, or whether you're noticing sensations, or even noticing your thoughts right, these thoughts that just keep bubbling along like a, like a brook, like a stream, just not, you can even just be noticing your thoughts, but the, the ongoing experience of mindfulness meditation is profound in terms of your quality of life.

Speaker 2: 17:38

I mean, you talk about mindset, right? So quite often we become, in fact most of our lives, we are identified with our experience or our thoughts in that moment. So we're having thoughts and we are identified with them, like this is me, I'm doing the thinking, this is who I am, but your thoughts just come. Whether you're not actually doing the thinking, most of the time the thoughts are just appearing, right, but we identify with them. Or we identify with our emotional state, like I am angry or I am frustrated or I am chill or I am calm, like that's who I actually am. But an emotional state is just a transitory physiological state of being. It comes and it goes right and it's it's triggered by the external and internal environments and it's always changing. But we identify with these things. We also identify with our political beliefs or our ideology. So I am Republican, or I am Democrat, or I am a pro-vaxxer, or I am an anti-vaxxer, et cetera. Right, we identify with these ideas. And what happens is that when we create our sense of identity, which is our ego, our identity is super defensive, right? Because from the ego's point of view, it's life and death. If someone challenges my sense of identity, it's like a lion is coming to eat me. It's like real life and death to the ego, right? And so what happens when someone comes with a different idea or a different opinion? We're going to war, dude. Right, you voted for him, I voted for them. Like we're at war, man, we are not friends anymore. You are the adversary, you are the enemy right now, just because of a different idea on a political party, or a different idea on vaccination, or a different idea on pro-life, pro-choice or pick your conversation, right.

Speaker 2: 19:27

So mindfulness meditation is the practice of going to a place of observation, just observing all the thoughts, all the ideas, all the emotions, just observing them, not being identified with them. So you are as consciousness, which means that when I'm in communication with you and you have a different idea to me, I'm not getting my back up, I'm not getting all defensive, I'm not ready to go to war with you. I'm listening, I'm just listening. I'm just listening, maybe I'm even curious Wow, how did you come to think of it like that? You know. So my ability it not. I'm not talking about me per se. I'm talking about anyone who has been developing the ability to come to a place of mindfulness and consciousness in communication is way more effective in communication because you're not reactionary, you're not identified with your ideas and getting defensive. You're just simply present and listening and curious, you know no, it definitely makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1: 20:25

So what inspired you? I mean, so we can dive a little bit into, like, the conscious communication, um, you know in your, in your book, the art of conscious communication for thoughtful men. What inspired you to write the book?

Speaker 2: 20:38

you know, to start, so I wrote the book in the first year of COVID and the state here in Australia where I am, victoria, we were apparently the most locked down over the longest period of time globally, like we got proper locked in here for a couple of years and anyway. So I started writing the book in the first year of COVID and it had just become really clear to me that communication was so fundamentally important and that it was the tripping point. It was the stumbling point for so many people in so many situations. Whether it was a relationship, you know, a marriage, say, and they loved each other but they were fighting with each other and it was just in miscommunication, they were just miscommunicating with each other. Or whether it was a leader and someone in their team and they were at at odds with each other but it wasn't. They were both on the same page but they didn't realize they were on the same page because they were miscommunicating with each other, right? Or whether it was an entrepreneur who had amazing ideas around you know, a service or product that they had dreamt up, that they wanted to deliver, create and deliver, but they were failing because they couldn't communicate it effectively, right? So communication underpins our ability to be effective in every aspect of our life, whether it's just taking an idea and manifesting it into reality, like you think about.

Speaker 2: 22:06

Einstein could have had all of his genius revelations about the theory of relativity and everything, but if he couldn't communicate those, it would have amounted to nothing. Einstein wouldn't have been Einstein if he couldn't communicate. And back to what we were talking about before, with this division thing, with, you know, the algorithms and the divisiveness and the social media platforms and and everything trying to pit people against each other um, the communication has deteriorated. You know that's what's going on and people are just shouting at each other over these digital divides, you know. So it became pretty clear to me that communication was really important and I think, because it's so fundamental for us as humans, it gets overlooked. You know. It gets overlooked in terms of its importance.

Speaker 2: 22:54

And so I started writing a book about being more conscious in communication. And then I engaged a book about being more conscious in communication, and then I engaged a book writing mentor and she said to me Jem, you need to pick an audience. And she suggested. She said I think this book, I think men really need some help with this. I think you could write a book specifically for men, and I agreed with her. So I wrote the book for men and, funnily enough, it's mainly women that pick it up off the shelf and buy it and then try and get their husbands or sons or brothers to read it.

Speaker 1: 23:22

So that's funny. Um, so I mean, the audience still is men, but then it's just you've. You've been able to kind of get, get it so that the wives of the girlfriends, you know, buy it and gift it, you know.

Speaker 2: 23:35

So that's, that's honestly yeah, and they read it. Yeah, and they read it and I love it, like I, I I feel um, I feel um happy because the book um is helping people. It's not a best seller I mean, it was best seller on amazon, but pretty much anyone can do that it. You know, it's not like it's gone and sold a million copies, but the people that have read a lot of them reach out to me and say, hey, thank you so much for your book. It's actually really helped me. And I have women reach out and say thank you for it and they've read it. I had this one woman from Europe send me an email and say, hey, I just wanted to say thank you for your book. I'm a single mom. I've got two sons and this book has really helped me in terms of the way that I'm going to parent my boys you know, so it was beautiful.

Speaker 1: 24:22

No, I think that's so awesome and, honestly, even though it says thought for thoughtful men on it, like it's, it's one of those things where it's a, a book or a topic that even if a woman did read it, I guarantee there's still a lot of knowledge that is, you know, take away from that, can be taken away from it. Right, because conscious communication, yeah, it's not gender specific, you know, like it's one of those things where it goes both ways.

Speaker 1: 24:46

So I definitely hear that on. On that, I want to ask you did mention you know one of the barriers, but I wanted to see you know maybe what are some of the common barriers that you've seen that lead to or that mislead effective communication. You mentioned opinion being one of them earlier in the conversation. But what are some of the you know barriers that you see that is basically dividing effective communication, and then how can we kind of overcome those?

Speaker 2: 25:21

then how could we kind of overcome those? Yeah, another, another um thing that really can negatively impact conscious communication is our inability to regulate our emotions, you know. So you're in a situation where you get emotional, um, and your ability to think clearly gets clouded, um, your ability to even enunciate your words, to speak clearly gets clouded, and I know you'll have listeners who know what I'm talking about. You're in that moment and you just kind of know what you're feeling, but you can't get it out right and it doesn't come out right and the other person takes it wrong, and then you get upset and they get upset and you end up in this moment there's just not the communications gone down the toilet, you know, and so it's interesting, um, you know, there's a part in the book where I talk about these different concentric rings of and.

Speaker 2: 26:10

And when it's really close to to home, really close to the heart, it can be really tricky to communicate. You know, the people who can pull our triggers the most are the ones we care about the most, right? Because if you're talking with some stranger who you just met and they try and pull your triggers, you're like, yeah, whatever, bro, have a good life man, I'm not affected by you. But if it's your mum or one of your kids, you know, and they pull a trigger and you, all of a sudden, you're reactionary.

Speaker 2: 26:42

you know, you know and the closer something is to your sense of identity, the more defensive we get right. So, yeah, I talk about that in there as well, and but also, um, you know, the other thing is that this gets in the way of communication. Most of us, I mean, we don't get taught the, the human behavioral matrix in school. We don't get taught human behavior in school in terms of behavioral styles or the three core fears or the six core needs or all of these different models and patterns of human behavior. We don't get taught that.

Speaker 2: 27:15

So you know you're, you might be trying to communicate with someone and they are completely misunderstanding you or you just don't get them. You're like, you're like an alien to me. I don't get you. Like, how do you operate, right? All it is is that maybe perhaps they've got a really different behavioral style to you. So you might be someone who prefers detail and to speak in a logical sequence and you prefer detail, but that's not the way their brain works. They might be someone who's big picture and kind of macro and all over the place, but that's just the way their brain works, but you don't know that. So you can't communicate with them.

Speaker 2: 27:52

But when you start to understand human behavior and understand others. You can adjust your delivery depending on who you're talking with, right? So if I'm going to have a conversation with someone and I know their big picture and they just want the bullet points they don't want all the detail, they just want me to get to the point and they want me to talk about the big picture then I'm going to deliver it like that with them. Whereas if I'm talking with someone else and I know there's someone who prefers the detail and they want me to slow down and they want me to go through it, you know, sequentially, then I'll schedule more time to sit down with that person and explain it more slowly and in detail. So the better you get at broadening your range of behavioral flexibility in terms of the way you deliver, the more effective you are in communication.

Speaker 1: 28:41

That makes sense. It kind of reminds me of, in a different way, the five languages, right? You know, yes, once I read that book, honestly, that at first I almost didn't read the book, because just the name and I was like it sounds kind of weird. But then, you know, you hear someone, some people talk about it and I was like this, there's probably something to it. And then when I did read it and I was like, wow, this makes so much sense.

Speaker 1: 29:09

You know, you start to see people in a different way and you're you're like, okay, this person gives gifts because deep down, that's their way of showing love and that's the way they would best receive love. You know, but I'm not a gift giver, but I have to know. You start to learn who people are and then you try to demonstrate, you know what's their love, language kind of thing, and then it transforms into our employees and you know our, our friends and other things. So communication isn't that much different, you know. So I definitely could see how that, how that is.

Speaker 1: 29:42

You know, I learned a certain way. I don't want every single detail. Give me what I need and let's, let's's, let it rock, you know. But I do know that my business partner. He's a little bit more like. He's like all right, but give me the details, you know, kind of thing. So it does make a lot of sense. What would you say, I guess, how could someone implement trying to improve their communication or maybe their connections to improve their communication or maybe their connections, what would be like a small mindset shift or a tool that someone could start to try to implement just in their everyday life?

Speaker 2: 30:17

Get better at listening. Get better at listening and seeking to understand, be curious, listen and seek to understand. And when you're listening to someone and you notice that you're queuing up for a gap, you're waiting for a gap because you want to say something, you want to tell them the way you see it, or you want to jump in and just let that go. Just go, hang on a second, let it go. There'll be plenty of time for me to share my opinion later. Just let it go, lean in and just keep. Just keep coming back to being as present as you possibly can and listening to the other person with everything you got.

Speaker 1: 30:59

No, I think that that is so true. If you already know what you're going to say and the person's still talking, and they're going to be talking for a little while, and you already know what you're going to say, you're not listening because you're just trying to focus on not forgetting what you're about to say. So I definitely, I definitely agree with that, because so many people always basically have what their rebuttal is and the person talking might not even have what you need to rebuttal anyways, they're just trying to tell you something and then all of a sudden, you're ready to fire off the next, like you know reason, or or you know solution, or whatever it's like. Just listen, yeah, sometimes, sometimes all they want is an agreement. You know, sometimes they don't need a rebuttal, they don't need a whole long description of whatever you were going to say. Sometimes they just need a.

Speaker 2: 31:43

Yeah, I understand, you know so I think that's it, that's it, that's it. 100 man. And you know it's um, one of the most commonly made mistakes by the masculine energy, which is usually the man, but not always. Sometimes the woman is more masculine and the man's more feminine, etc. So it can go be either way, but usually you know, you got the more masculine man and more feminine woman and the masculine energy makes the mistake because the masculine wants to jump to the end and fix it.

Speaker 2: 32:14

So your woman is there and she's expressing how she's feeling about something, and maybe she's saying the same thing five times over in different ways, and she just keeps expressing herself and you're like I get it, baby, I get it, baby, just move A to B and you don't have to worry about C anymore. And she gets upset because you just tried to fix her. But the man's just trying to make it better, but he's jumping to the end already because the masculine wants the end result. The masculine wants the touchdown, but the feminine wants the dance, the movement, the sidestep, the expression, right. So when you're listening, fellas, when you're listening to your woman and she's expressing herself, man, just sit still and be present and listen right. Seek to understand what she's really feeling.

Speaker 2: 32:59

Don't take it literally, because the feminine speaks. This is communication tips, right. Feminine speaks expressively. She's just expressing how she's feeling, but the masculine energy takes it literally. So the feminine says you never do anything for me. The masculine takes those words literally I never do anything for you, get fucked. I do stuff for you all the time.

Speaker 2: 33:23

Right now, the masculine fires up. The masculine is like I did that shit for you yesterday and you forgot that, and you take me for granted. Blah, blah, blah. It. Masculine is like I did that shit for you yesterday and you forgot that. And you don't take me. You take me for granted. Blah, blah, blah. Right, it's like masculine chill out, dude. Don't take her literally. She doesn't mean never. She means right now. You're not helping me with this thing and I'm feeling frustrated. Right, seek to understand and don't jump to the end and go. Just, I'll fix you, I'll just fix it, just fix this problem, even though you're coming from a place of love, because you love her and you want to help her. Just sit still, brother, listen, seek to understand, you know.

Speaker 1: 34:00

No, I agree with that. I mean me and my wife had a similar conversation, you know, after numerous conversations, but the conversation was me understanding that sometimes cause there was, you know, not to dive into the story, but there was a story she kept telling me and or an issue she kept presenting to me and I was trying to basically tell her how to solve it. Or, you know, she could do this, that, and then I could tell she was getting frustrated when I would tell her. And then the conversation kind of ended and then I was like, so are you gonna do that, you know? And then she would get annoyed and I was like I don't understand why you're annoyed right now, like I just gave you the answer. And so it happened, you know, week after week, and then finally I was like I was like listen, I, like you have to, you have to understand how my brain works, like I go all day from business solving problems, like when you're presenting a problem, the way I'm thinking of it. You're presenting a problem, so I'm trying to give you an answer. It's not that I'm not listening to you. I, I hear what you're saying, but if you don't, if you just want me to listen, I'll just listen, but just let me know, like, let me, let me know what kind of conversation, because other times that you do want an answer, that I don't want to just be listening and not give you an answer.

Speaker 1: 35:13

I was like, so you got to let me know. I said how about this moving forward? I'm just going to think that you're you're venting and I'm going to listen to you and we'll talk about whatever it is right. But if you want me to step in because this was a situation I ended up having to step in um, it was a family matter, you know, family, friend and stuff. So I was like, when you want me to step in, tell me the, tell me the problem and then say I need you to step in now, Right, and then that was like that's our transition kind of phase. So that was one thing and that didn't happen after year one. That that's awesome. You know that's years after that's awesome, that's you know.

Speaker 2: 35:51

Yeah, that's that's conscious communication, right, it's conscious communication. Is also communicating about communication, right? Exactly what you guys just did. You're like, oh wow, so in. So sometimes you want me to just listen and sometimes you do actually want me to step in, right, I'm like I'm to try my best to understand when is when, but sometimes I might not know. So how about we just set it up so that when you want me to step in, you go and step in, and that's great, because you guys are communicating about communication.

Speaker 2: 36:20

You know, me and my partner have a very, very similar thing. You know, in the early days and when she was expressing herself or venting or whatever, and I'm listening. In the early days, and when she was expressing herself or venting or whatever, and I'm listening. And if I wasn't sure, like, are you actually wanting me to suggest a solution or are you just wanting me to sit here and listen and we'll? We'll just talk about it. And so I just said to her hey, I'm just unsure right now. Are you wanting some suggestions or you just want me to listen? She's going just listen. I just want to express myself. I'm like I can do that. I can definitely do that, or sometimes she's like no, I'm asking you for some ideas and I'm like okay.

Speaker 1: 36:56

I've got some ideas, exactly so.

Speaker 1: 36:57

I think it's a place of realizing that you don't have to as a guy at least I can't speak for anyone else but as a guy, realizing that sometimes you don't need to solve every problem.

Speaker 1: 37:08

And it goes even for like guy to guy friends. You know, it's like sometimes guys, you know, don't know how to express their feelings and, like your boy, just wants to tell you something and he just wants someone that he feels comfortable in telling right, he doesn't, he knows what he needs to do or knows the solution. But sometimes they don't want to tell their their spouse, so they don't want to tell their girlfriend because they don't want to seem weak in their mind. So they're telling someone that they do confide in. And it's like sometimes you just got to be like you know, hey, man, you got this, you know, or whatever. And if they're like yeah, and then usually guys like no, I need help, bro, tell me what's your opinion. You know, guys, guys, guys will tell you straight up. If they're like I'm telling you this, not for you to listen to, I need you to give me some brainstorm here.

Speaker 1: 37:51

You know, so it does go both ways, though I don't think it's just gender specific on the listening aspect.

Speaker 2: 38:03

But you don't know where the conversation is going if you're already just always preparing solutions in your mind. Yeah, yeah, that's it. And sometimes it's not about the solutions, like we're saying. Sometimes it's about the relationship you know. So, part of more conscious communication, I.

Speaker 2: 38:16

I believe the first step to conscious communication is having some clarity on why. Why are we in this communication right now? What's the higher reason? Why not not the surface level reason? Why? Right?

Speaker 2: 38:28

So the first surface level reason why might be, you know, a team leader or a business owner needs to go and talk to one of their employees and tell them that they didn't do that thing right, they didn't follow a process, you know, and you go well, why? Well, I need to tell them that they did it wrong. Yeah, but why? Well, so they can do it right. Yeah, but why do you want them to do it right? Well, so they can get better results. Why do you want them to get better results? Because I want them to thrive here, I want them to flourish, I want them to expand into their potential man, I want them to be awesome at their job, you know. And so now we're starting to get to the real reason. Why do I have to go and have that conversation with my employee, not because it's not because I need to tell them that they did it wrong. It's because I want them to live their best life here and flourish and thrive and do a great job. So and it's the same with going to your spouse Just say you need to go to your partner and they've done something and you got upset.

Speaker 2: 39:25

You go. Why do you need to go and tell them? Well, I want them to know that I'm upset. Is that the biggest reason? Why Is that the highest reason? Why? Why do you want them to know that you're upset? Well, because I don't want them to do that again. Why not? Well, because I don't want to get upset with them. Why not? Well, because I prefer when we're in harmony with each other I mean, we love each other, right? Nicer when we're getting along.

Speaker 2: 39:55

Oh so now you're getting to the real reason why to have the conversation? Because I love them and because I want us to be in harmony together, right? So, understanding, or sometimes the communication might be your partner's coming to you and communicating with you, not because they want a result or an answer or a resolution, just because they want to feel intimacy. They want to share with you something very personal, because they want intimacy. So then you go oh, the why are we having this communication right now? Oh, for closeness, for intimacy, for the relationship you know. So when you have an understanding of why we're communicating, it can really help how you are being in that moment. You know.

Speaker 1: 40:24

No, I I agree with everything that you just said and I want to add to that too, is everything that you're that you just said, and I want to add to that too, is everything that you're that you've just said. It demonstrates that communication it's a two-way street, right? Just like you're trying to like, just like you would convey to your team, to your employees, to your family, the reason why you have to understand. You're trying to do it so that they can listen and actually interpret it. Right, if you tell your, your staff, that they did something wrong, it's like they know they did something wrong.

Speaker 1: 40:53

But if you explain why they need to do it correctly, it's it's now they'll have a better understanding of it and they're going to want to do it that way for the the result of doing it correctly. You know, instead of just being like, okay, I have. You know, instead of just being like, okay, I have to do it this way, this is, you know, I don't know why, but it's just, this is what we have to do. It's like. So you have to realize that when you talk, you're talking so that you can try to have someone listen and understand, not just listen yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 41:23

And I think if you approach the conversation starting with the highest why and work your way backwards through the whys, then then they're going to get it, like you said, you know. So if you went to your employee and say, hey, you know, you know I care about you kicking ass here, you know, you know I care about you thriving here, right, and when you've had a great day here and the clients, your clients, have had an awesome experience with you, and you go out the door at the end of the day with a smile on your face and you're like I love my job. That's me just going, yes, right, that's what. That's what I want for you. You know, I want you to love being here and I want you to love getting great results, right. So that's why I'm having this conversation with you.

Speaker 2: 42:02

And the reason we've designed this particular process in this way is because when you do it in this way, then the clients get to actually embody what you're teaching them and then they're more likely to do their exercises the right way or whatever it is right. So that's why we have this process like that and they go oh, my god, I get it. Or the reason why we fill out this client information here in the system here is so that if you're away and one of the other pts is looking after them, they've got all of the background information so they know their injury history and they know the blah, blah, blah right, so we can provide a better service for our clients. So they're more likely to come back to us and ask for you to be their pt. That's why we do it like this and they go, oh, and they get it like you're saying right, and then they're way more likely to adopt the process because they get the wise 100%.

Speaker 1: 42:48

So before I mean, you've already dropped so much knowledge, you know. But before we wrap up, I like to ask one question. Right, and I don't like to give people this leading up to it just because I want it to be the first thing that comes to mind Now on Jem's legacy wall. Right, this legacy wall utility leave one lasting message for the up and coming generations. It could be in any area of life. It utility the one lasting message for the up and coming generations. It could be in any area of life. It's just the one lasting message from your journey that would be on that wall. What would that message be?

Speaker 2: 43:19

You are exactly who you are supposed to be In this moment, right now. You made it right. So that would be the, that would be the billboard thing. But then underneath the description, underneath would be I'm not talking about the future version of you. You are going to evolve and change and grow and become who you become, and I'm not talking about the past version of you. I'm talking about you right now, in this moment. You are exactly precisely who you are supposed to be, where you are supposed to be. You made it well done.

Speaker 1: 43:51

Take a breath. I like that. That's the first for the show. I like that one Honestly. That is so true. So where can people connect with you and learn more about what you have got going on?

Speaker 2: 44:07

you know social media or you know your retreats or even your coaching. Yeah, follow me on. Insta is where I do. Most of my sharing of content is on insta. Jem fuller, j-e-m-f-u-l-l-e-r. The website jem fullercom um, you can get a whole bunch of free resource on there. I've got a couple of free ebooks you can get on there. I've got free courses you can go to. You can go and check out our retreats, um, around the world you can go to. You can go and check out our retreats around the world. You can contact me through the website jemfullercom. Just reach out to me through there. And the book the Art of Conscious Communication for Thoughtful Men is on Amazon, it's on Audible, it's everywhere that you can get books.

Speaker 1: 44:42

Awesome. Well, guys, make sure you guys check out Jem and what he has going on. I know you guys took a lot away from this because I know I personally did as well. Make sure you guys share this with one of your closest friends and make sure that they're growing with you and you're not being selfish and having your personal development journey grow and leaving your friends behind. So share this with a friend. Leave us that review. But, most importantly, jem, thank you so much for coming on and sharing the knowledge with the audience today.

Speaker 2: 45:25

You're welcome, man. Thanks for having me.