201. Hiring with AI & Human Insight w/ Guest: Scott Morris

What if you could revolutionize the hiring process and dramatically cut down on the staggering 46% failure rate of new hires within their first 18 months? Join us as Scott Morris, founder and CEO of Propulsion AI, takes us through his extraordinary journey. From Hollywood actor to economist and then to the Los Angeles Police Department, Scott's path has been anything but ordinary. His diverse experiences have fueled his passion for redefining how businesses hire and retain talent, using an innovative mix of AI and human insight to align roles with strategic goals.

Scott shares invaluable lessons learned from failures and customer insights, underscoring the hefty emotional and financial toll of poor hiring decisions, which impact the economy to the tune of $1.1 trillion globally. By understanding the real needs of users through curiosity and engagement, companies can drive successful product innovation. Scott illustrates this with a compelling story from a gym franchise that transformed through attentive customer feedback, showcasing the undeniable power of a user-centric approach.

The conversation also veers into the personal realm, exploring the delicate balance between work and life as an entrepreneur. Scott divulges his secrets to effective time management and the importance of a resilient mindset. By embracing mistakes and focusing on growth, he encourages a shift from task-oriented methods to goal-oriented strategies, facilitating a vibrant, outcome-driven workplace culture. Don't miss this episode full of rich insights from Scott Morris, illuminating the path to unlocking employee potential and entrepreneurial excellence.

https://getpropulsion.ai/

Chapters

• 0:00 Entrepreneurial Journey of Scott Morris
• 12:01 Learning From Failure and Customer Insight
• 17:14 Entrepreneurial Lessons and Networking Insights
• 25:52 Work-Life Balance and Recruitment Insights
• 34:06 Unlocking Employee Potential Through Mindset
• 40:51 Value Delivery and Growth Challenges
• 46:40 Mindset and Entrepreneurial Hustle

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Yeah, it's mindset cafe. We all about that mindset. Gotta stay focused. Now go settle for the last. It's all in your head how you think you manifest. So get ready to rise, cause we bout to be the best. Gotta switch it up. Gotta break the old habits. Get your mind right. Turn your dreams into habits. No negative vibes, only positive thoughts.

Speaker 1: 0:36

What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of the Mindset Cafe podcast. It's your boy, devin, and today I'm excited to welcome a special guest, scott Morris. He's the founder and the CEO of Propulsion AI. It's a revolutionary platform that really blends AI and human intelligence to transform the hiring process and, as an entrepreneur, I can say myself this is a really cool and unique subject to talk about. So I really want to dive into that with him today. But he's had 20 years of experience with people and hiring and firing and across executive positions to different industries and just to base levels as well. So diving into his firsthand experience of how businesses struggle with that whole process of retention and everything is honestly. It's going to be a episode full of knowledge. So make sure you guys break out that notebook and get ready, but without further ado. Scott, thank you so much for taking that time out of your day to hop on.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Devin, I'm so glad to be here with you and I was humbled by the invite. So thanks Of course.

Speaker 1: 1:41

So let's dive into your story. I mean, before we get into Propulsion AI and everything like that, what is your give us, your you know journey of how you got from you know childhood to where you are now?

Speaker 2: 1:53

Childhood man. That's like you got to go back to the late 1900s to get that one. I have sort of an interesting you know sort of career. You and I both grew up in Los Angeles and you know everybody in Los Angeles is somewhere connected to the entertainment industry like six degrees of Kevin Bacon someplace and that was true for me too. My earliest work I was a working actor. I have a handful of film credits and a bunch of commercials, kind of like everybody else in the LA area, and I didn't really know what I wanted to do. Coming out of high school I wasn't sure what I wanted to study. In college. I wasn't kind of sure the career I wanted. Acting seemed like a good thing to try and I was lucky that I got work, because there are an awful lot of people who, as you know, who are in LA that want to be actors. That don't get that work. I left that.

Speaker 2: 2:52

I went to college at Occidental College in Los Angeles and I'm an economist. By training I learned the value of small liberal arts colleges is that you get direct access to all the professors, and I learned the danger of small liberal arts colleges. It's really obvious when you're surfing on a Wednesday because there's only like 15 people in every class. So so so I did that and I came out of college and I kind of faced the same thing that I did out of high school. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And so I uh, I saw an ad, uh, for the Los Angeles police department and I thought you know what I'll, I'll try that. And uh, so the application process is long, it's hard with LA and um, and I was lucky, I, I got a slot and then I became a. I became a police officer and I know you have a family connection there as well. So it's a challenging job, it's a great job, it's a great department. I learned a ton of lessons. It ultimately wasn't the thing I think.

Speaker 2: 3:58

I wanted to spend the, a professional services training company, and this was back. I know it's like now it seems like it's nothing, but back in the day there were actually training classes that taught people how to use the very earliest versions of Word and Excel and PowerPoint and softwares like that, and that was kind of my first foray into HR, in the world of learning and development, and so I had a couple of jobs actually in learning and development and then launched out in my first entrepreneurial venture, became a partner in a consulting firm and we did public sector transformation work, which meant we worked with government entities and higher ed on building new business models and transforming old business models, and that was super, super formative. I learned a ton in those years, did that for a while, had an offer to become the head of HR, so my actually first job in HR was as a head of HR. So my my actually first job in HR was as a head of HR, which is kind of an unusual way to come up in that profession and spent, you know, the next 17 years as a as a head of HR. I sort of my my last corporate assignment before I founded Propulsion AI. I think was remarkable as well, because after 25 years in the profession and after dispensing advice about finding organizations that you fit in and organizations that fit you, I found myself in an organization where I didn't fit and there was nothing about me that was right for this group. I took the job because the money was great and it was you great and the location was where I wanted to be, but it ultimately was just a horrific failure. Everything that could have possibly gone wrong went wrong, and every possible way that I could not be right for that company, I was not right. And every possible way that they could not be right for me, they were not right for me. And that was really, I think, an important point in my evolution because it made me more convinced than ever about the work that we're trying to do at Propulsion AI and the importance of that work.

Speaker 2: 6:41

Propulsion AI is a company, as you said in your intro, that leverages artificial intelligence and we use it to guide managers through the process of designing roles for their team. And when I say designing a role, how does that role fit into your strategy? What kind of outcomes do you need the person in that role to generate? How are you going to measure their success? What kind of competencies and skills do you need the person in that role to generate? How are you going to measure their success? What kind of competencies and skills do you need?

Speaker 2: 7:07

Those things are really hard for most managers to get their head around. We utilize artificial intelligence to take the manager on a discovery path around that role and then we write all the collateral. We write the job description, the job posting, interviewer guides, social posts, et cetera. And you know that's the first step. That's where you really figure out fit is if the manager can get their head around the role, then getting the person that really actually does fit that role gets a whole lot easier. So that's where we're starting and I know that's kind of a lot of words from me, so I'm sorry to be really like lengthy with it, but I hope that gives you a sense of where I've been and where I'm trying to go.

Speaker 1: 7:48

No, definitely. And I think the coolest part about that is seeing you know cause, I would say for myself going to college, and you know I started off as a business major and then transitioned to kinesiology and and didn't. I still didn't think that was the route I was going to go. But, fast forward, I went the firefighter route, decided I didn't want to do it and became a trainer, opened a gym and so forth, and so the cool connection was that you went to college.

Speaker 1: 8:14

You still didn't know what you wanted to do and then you saw an opportunity and so you took it with going with the police department. And you took the opportunity, kept your mind open and you're like you know what this isn. With the police department, and you took the opportunity, kept your mind open and you're like you know what, this isn't a fit for me. And you transitioned because a lot of people will get into a role that's comfortable financially or comfortable feeling like they're secure and they'll stay there.

Speaker 1: 8:35

But you are a testament to you have to, you have to want this. This is your. You get one life right and you were like this isn't really what I want to do, it's not, this isn't really what I thought it was going to be, or whatever the case may be. And then you're like I'm going to transition, right. And then again you saw another opportunity. You transitioned. You realized that, hey, this is not the best fit for me, I'm not the best fit for them, and so forth, and that opportunistic mindset allowed you to take all these steps to where you are today right.

Speaker 2: 9:06

Yeah, I think there's two lessons that I take out of it and there are lessons that I try and apply, kind of born out of my own experience, but I'm still trying to apply in my life.

Speaker 2: 9:17

The first of them is going into an area where you don't know something is scary for a lot of people, myself included, and I think that fear slows us down and for some of us it stops us and it keeps us from going out there, because what we're really afraid of is like, oh, I had a failure, like I went in there, I didn't have a whole lot of expertise and I didn't do so. Good, right, and that's a bad feeling. But when we're willing to put ourselves in that situation is where we actually get the greatest opportunity to discover things. And I think the other lesson I take from you know my own personal failures is that you got to give yourself some grace. You know you got to be willing. If you step up and you swing big at something and you don't hit it, hey, like you, you hadn't at bat. You, you stepped up and and it's okay to not be hitting a thousand, you know all of the time.

Speaker 1: 10:11

Exactly, no one. No one bats a thousand, you know. But if you don't step up to the plate and take that swing, you'll never hit a home run. Right, right. So I agree with you 100% on it. That is so true. And that's the hard thing is that you know people look at success, or people look at the journey, and they look at where you've already been and not where you are currently, and they don't see all the at-bats right. And that's the thing that people can get discouraged by. And it's like you have to realize like you maybe haven't hit your grand slam yet, but that doesn't doesn't mean you won't hit your grand slam. You just need to keep getting that bat and your time will come Right. So I think that is so true, that is so awesome. I do want to like. I want to ask what led you to make that leap from being an employee to being an entrepreneur? Like, what was that driving force behind that?

Speaker 2: 10:56

Yeah, I mean I think there were. There were two things that were there. One is you know, I was a buyer of HR technology platforms for 20 years and they always seemed like they were made by smart maybe software people, but they never addressed the root causes that my teams had to deal with on the frontline, or at least not fully. And I mean, I'll give you a good example and I hate to call them out, but like Workday, which is like a huge platform for HR tech, is just a behemoth. They, I mean, hundreds of millions of dollars and yet when you ask people about their experience with Workday, most of them will tell you how much they don't like it. And so, as a buyer of that kind of technology, I would say to myself all the time you know, I know I can do this better, I know I can be smarter about it, and I'm a non-technical guy going in to try and make something technical, and but I just I kept saying to myself like this isn't right, like somebody's got to do it better. And so that's piece one of two. Piece two of two was my cataclysmic failure at my last company, globally. Well, I'll give you one other fact first, I guess, and that is Forbes followed 20,000 new hires. You know what happened to almost half of them 46%. They failed in their first 18 months. Wow.

Speaker 2: 12:22

So the, the, the phenomenon of getting into a situation where you're just not a fit and ultimately, you know, kind of crashing out, is not unique, you know it's.

Speaker 2: 12:36

It's, it's more common and for me, like the, the, the cost of that. Globally, the cost of that lack of fit is estimated to be someplace around $1.1 trillion globally. Right, about $600 billion of that in the United States. But there are costs that don't get factored in. There are emotional costs that come from, you know, hey, I went in there and I had the best intentions and I'm good at my job and I still failed. And I exited that feeling horrible about myself, feeling like an imposter, feeling as if I had made some unrecoverable mistake, and so you bring those two things together and I guess maybe I had a psychotic break along the way and I just said I'm not going back to work for anybody else, I am going to go do this because I cared deeply, from my own personal experience, about that failure and I just knew I could build a better software product than the ones that I'd been using.

Speaker 1: 13:37

No, that doesn't. I mean that makes a lot of sense and I think it's cool because you bring an aspect that, like you said, a lot of the people that are building the other ones are maybe more on the tech side and they don't have any frontline experience and sometimes it takes that frontline experience to bring that actual generation or that actual model of something out. That is suitable because everything is good in theory, but if you don't know how the theory is actually working in the every day-to-day life of the person you're selling to, then again what is it really worth? So you actually having to use some of the other softwares and actually going through and running teams and all that kind of stuff? That actually speaks volumes for your software, because you could relate to a lot of these things.

Speaker 1: 14:25

A data analysis is only you know, or a person that's only looking at the data, is only looking at numbers. It's like, oh, 46, how do we get that to 45? And then how do we get? It's like no, but why don't? Why not? What? What's not working on the person side? Like what? How do we make it better? On, on, for the actual people? Right, and that's where I think you're being able to have that twist on your software is so crucial.

Speaker 2: 14:50

Well, you know, one thing that you learn as an entrepreneur too is you got to ask a ton of questions, and we did that in the very beginning when Propulsion was founded.

Speaker 2: 14:59

I mean, we got together a group of like 100 heads of HR and heads of recruiting and HR, business partners and recruiters. We just started asking just a bunch of questions about where their pain was and why it was painful and what their interactions with their managers and their constituents were like. And we tried to learn from that and I just I think that's another life lesson that that my own experience has kind of taught me is that you should always be finding questions. There's always something to ask about. When you're meeting other people and when you're looking at their ideas and what they're doing, there's always questions. And if you lead with those, I think so often most of us are wanting to tell people things, and I think flipping the script on that and having the mental model that I'm just going to ask as many questions as I possibly can, it serves you well, and it certainly did for us, because I think we've gotten to the heart of what resonated with that community and it's in part because we asked them about it before we started building.

Speaker 1: 16:04

No, and actually I'll give you a little insight because I, honestly, I agree with everything you just said. And so my main business is actually a gym and we launched a franchise, and so for February we ran this new thing it's a February bingo, essentially Right, and there's some squares that have, like you know, a workout or other things, but one of those squares on there is to write on the back of the sheet your three reasons for working out Right. And so every single person that does it, we're asking them why they work out, not why they love strive, not why they love the gym, why are you working out Right? And they get a checkbox right there. But their answers are crucial to us because it helps us give an insight.

Speaker 1: 16:44

It's like, okay, some people aren't just about weight loss, some people aren't just about this. It's like you can find out so much about your business, about a business idea that you have, if you just ask questions to the people that you'd be selling to. It's like you might have a model and might have something that's a solution in your head for a certain problem that you're trying to solve, but it might solve 10 other problems that you don't even know about and that you can really highlight. Yeah, right, so I think that's so cool that you're doing that.

Speaker 2: 17:14

And you know what man I'll, I'll. I'll give you a parenthesis, because if you ask me my reason for working out, I get up every morning, I go run 10 K. I go back in the afternoon when the day is done and I go to lift weights. And the reason I do that is it just working out just makes me more creative, it opens up my mind, it sets me up for the day. It's why I like going. I mean, it's hard to get up. I get up at 430 every morning but it's hard to roll out of bed at that time. But every day that I go I'm glad I did it because I feel creative for the day and ready to take on the tough problems. And as an entrepreneur, like there is no shortage of tough problems and there is nobody to say here, come solve this for me, cause it's just, it's just you, you know.

Speaker 1: 17:55

No, I agree with you. It's funny that that is how I actually get my creative juices flowing, is like if there's a problem or an obstacle that needs to be overcame. It's like let me just go on a run or let me go get a workout in and I'll have some, maybe some, music playing. But it's really my mind is just silent in. That noise is just to block out any other noise. You know, and that's where problems are solved for me too. So I can actually relate 100%.

Speaker 2: 18:18

You know a lot of what we built into our product and I hope people go and experience the product that we built. But so much of it was built in my head, exactly as you just described it, on runs or on longer walks and, and you know, really having that time to be in the zone, and so I you know that's my reason for working out.

Speaker 1: 18:40

No, so that's so awesome. So let's I mean let's dive a little bit into the entrepreneur side first before we dive a little bit into the entrepreneur side first, before we dive into you know more propulsion. You know, being an entrepreneur is different than you know being an employee. What are some of the lessons that you've learned being an entrepreneur that you didn't know ahead of time? Oh God.

Speaker 2: 19:00

Well, I know you'll probably relate to this. One, one, two like nobody I mean and I want to be careful how I say this, because there have been so many people who have been supportive of the journey, but nobody's in your corner, Nobody is going to be there to make it okay for you. You have to make it okay Every decision you're going to make and you're going to be uncertain about it and there's not going to be anybody standing behind you, patting you on the back, going, oh, it's okay, yeah, that's a good decision, right. Like go do that, right. There's no reinforcement and you can't explain to somebody who hasn't done it how empty and alone that feels when you're betting on the future and you're doing it without the reinforcement that a lot of us get. If you're working as an employee, you've got peers, you've got a boss and you're like, hey, I'm thinking about doing this or I'm going to make this decision this way, and you've got people that come in and they're like, no, I don't do that, you know that's stupid, or they stop you, Right, and there is nobody doing that.

Speaker 2: 20:01

When you're an entrepreneur, you are totally out on your own. So I think that's the. That's lesson number one. Lesson number two is just about moving quickly. You know I'm a guy that values doing things right. I, you know I don't want to be. I'm scared, I think, to a certain extent, of of being an imposter, of being full of you know of nothing, and so I take the extra time to try and make sure that things are right. But as an entrepreneur, you can't afford that kind of time. And so getting over that and just knowing that sometimes you just got to decide and you got to go and you're going to do it imperfectly and then you're going to fix it.

Speaker 2: 20:37

And I'll give you a concrete example. When we first launched a website for Propulsion AI, I thought I had to have it perfect, Not realizing that in the space between that moment and right now, I've remade that website like 15 times. And right now I've remade that website like 15 times, you know. And so it didn't matter that one section's words were not exactly what I wanted them to be or didn't perfectly describe the situation. It's far more important to get there and to execute than it is to have it be perfect, because it's all going to change anyway, because the market's going to tell you what needs to change. Your customers are going to tell you what needs to change and then you're going to change it and nobody else is going to see the imperfection of the past. So those are the two really big lessons.

Speaker 1: 21:23

No, I think that's huge and that is a lesson that even myself I learned. I like to say it like no one's going to come save you, right? You're going to have to make the mistakes and, believe me, I mean, I have a business partner and out of us two, I'm definitely the one who has created the ideas, and that's just our dynamic. So it's like when it's a mistake, it's usually my fault for making the mistake, and then having to explain hey, man, we, actually we should have went this way. And it's like and he's like okay, let's do it, let's pivot. And it's like, you know.

Speaker 1: 22:02

So it's like, the same time, there's no time to, you know, be sad about a wrong decision or anything. It's like you messed up or you succeeded Awesome, but keep moving forward. You know, it's like there's no, there's no weighing in yourself and you know woe is me. It's like, no, the only is the next move, that's all you can focus on. Yeah, um, one thing I want to ask with that is like, since being a business owner and being an entrepreneur can be lonely because you don't have that soundboard, you don't have, I mean, you can have a significant other and stuff, but again, like trying to get feedback. It's not the same. So. So two parts of the question you know, first part being like what do you do in terms of like networking and getting around other, like business owners and stuff like that? Are you a part of networks or?

Speaker 2: 22:44

Yeah, I mean, I I've been. This is where I've said a second ago I wanted to pick my words carefully Cause I was saying like nobody in your corner, Cause I think there are a ton of people that are in my corner right, None of them are going to save me, but they are there. I found really early of a handful of advisors that I trusted a lot and and I think I made an early mistake with them, the like somehow I thought they were going to run the business for me because they were farther down the road and back to the point you just made, right, Like they're not going to do that, but they were still really good advisors. They're really great sounding boards. The former head of global talent from Coinbase is an advisor for us and a super, super smart guy, and I've just been really lucky to have those people around me.

Speaker 2: 23:29

There are also groups for entrepreneurs. I live in Denver. There's a group called Denver Founders. In fact, there are a bunch of entrepreneurial sort of networking and community groups that are here in the Denver area and it's cool to go and, whether it's just sitting around and talking to other founders or whether it's listening to presentations, it's a good way to be able to have some interaction with people who understand what you're going through and and you know cause. They're going through it too, at different stages. So I do those things.

Speaker 1: 24:02

No, I think that's that's a huge aspect. It's like even for us that we're a part of the networks and those groups as well, and then realizing that you're not the only one that faces these problems and you know whether it's it's a problem in your industry. It's like other business owners have that problem. Maybe just you know, changed up on the perspective or the angle, but similar in nature, and getting that good advice from someone else that's already faced that problem does help a lot. Because my whole thing is like we have advisors as well and like everyone that you have on your team helps condense your timeline to success. Right, you don't have to be an entrepreneur that needs to fit or fix every problem or solve every solution by yourself. It's like sometimes getting advice helps, you know.

Speaker 2: 24:46

Yeah yeah, it does. And even even knowing, like I went to a presentation last week a guy named Brian Pontinelli who is the CEO of a company called FusionAuth. They do single sign-on and authentication software. That's the platform that runs on different other platforms, and it was really interesting to listen to him talk about the number of products that they had tried to bring out, that they failed with, where they just hadn't figured out the market, and I'm like, okay, god, I'm not the only guy who didn't see the path clearly and had to kind of fumble your way around getting to what you ultimately launch. And it was really good to listen to that. And he just sold this company for a ton of money, right, and listening to the time where he had nothing and he couldn't get customers, and like you're like, oh my God, I'm not the only one who's walking. You know this path with all these, with all these difficulties, and you know. So those, those kinds of lessons, even if they're lessons about failure, are still reinforcing in a in a really good and helpful way.

Speaker 1: 25:51

No, that is so true. So I want to ask now the second part of that question. Being an entrepreneur, right as stressful as it is, as time consuming as it can be, what is your and I hate using the word balance for this, because balance insinuates that it's 50-50. But just for the sake of the question, what is your work life or work family balance, and how do you go about juggling the two?

Speaker 2: 26:18

So I mean, the cool thing is I work at home, which saves on commute, and I think, even at the point that we have enough people to demand larger office spaces, I think a lot of it's still got to be at home, because it really does help with that balance. I mean, I told you a second ago I get up early and I go work out, and that's time. You know, workout time for me bookends the day and it's not negotiable. Those, those kinds of things. Just you know, I just say, look, I'm going to, here are the fixtures and everything in between is flexible, but like these, these are the pieces that don't move.

Speaker 2: 26:56

You know, I, I use my calendar and that's the way I am able to manage my time is everything that I do, and I mean everything goes on the calendar and it gets color coded and it takes a little while to build that muscle memory.

Speaker 2: 27:11

But what that gives me the ability to do is I can look back at the end of the week and visually I can see how I've invested my time.

Speaker 2: 27:18

And I think that's really important, because the only person that's going to call me out like there's no boss, right, it's just me. So if I'm not using my time in the right way. I'm going to have to be the guy that catches myself doing that and says hold on, for next week we're going to have a change. And so I've got a color for personal and if I get up and go do laundry or if I get up and go eat food, it goes on the calendar and it gets colored gold. That's my personal color and along with every other thing that I do, down to 15 minute increments, and it takes me zero effort right now to do it, but it's super helpful. And so I can look back and I can say how much time am I really spending on my big problem right now, which is marketing, and I can see it visually. And if I'm not spending enough, then that's my indicator that I need to cut something else out and change that activity over. And I do that week to week.

Speaker 1: 28:13

That's awesome. So let's dive back into. You know what you got going on with propulsion and everything right Now. What is the benefit? Right, because I want I want some explanation for the listeners that you know, maybe looking to get hired or looking to hire, right the difference between something that's super base level in terms of, let's say, indeed or ZipRecruiter or something like that, and then something like Propulsion.

Speaker 2: 28:37

Well. So there are different sides of the equation. We don't do anything on the candidate side right now. We have a broad vision for what we want to do, but the platform that we just released is very much an employer side platform, and here's what it does. Is you know, a manager who's truly thought through a role, who understands what they need to ask? And there's a difference, keep in mind, between asking somebody for outcomes and asking somebody to do tasks. Nobody goes to work wanting to do tasks.

Speaker 2: 29:06

And let me just make this a concrete example for your audience. Right, let's say we're hiring an accountant a totally reasonable duty. Let's say we're hiring an accountant. A totally reasonable duty that most people would write into an accountant's job description is follow up on delinquent accounts. But you have to ask yourself, like, what is the point of that? Do I write that into the job description? Because, as a boss, I need to feel like some kind of power, that people come in and they sit at a desk and they go through this effort, and the answer should be no.

Speaker 2: 29:34

The effort is a means to an end and in this case and for this example, following up on delinquent accounts is a way of getting the organization to collect money on its sales faster and it moves what's called days outstanding. That's a number that is tracked in accounting and, like I said, it's an indicator of how quickly the organization can collect money after a sale is made. And that's the whole point. The only reason anybody follows up on an account is to collect that money faster and move the days outstanding number down from wherever it is to where you want it to be. But days outstanding, if I said to you this is an important number, it's an important measure of efficiency for us and I want you to own this thing, then of course you're going to follow up on delinquent accounts. But if that didn't work, you're going to have to figure out some other things. So if I say to you your job is following up on the delinquent account, I lock you into a task and I don't allow you to be creative. If I say to you your job is to move days outstanding from X to Y, then I open up the door for you to be creative.

Speaker 2: 30:40

And I think most people want to go to work and they want to be creative and they want to solve problems. Until we shut them down as managers and we keep them from acting in the best interest of the business. And so the manager that's thought that through and that understands those outcomes and why those outcomes are important and how they're going to measure success in those outcomes, that manager is a talent magnet. People want to go and work for people like that and our platform helps you become that manager. It helps you think through these roles and then it writes the stuff, like it'll write the posting that goes on the web. You've got to do the design with it first, but then it writes all of the stuff that's typically hard for us to write and gets it out on the web for you. So we don't do anything with candidates, but we turn managers into superstars who are truly thinking about how to engage people, keep them productive and, because of that, reduce their turnover.

Speaker 1: 31:37

No, I think that's really cool, because shifting it from a task-oriented job post or even from a hiring standpoint into an outcome or a goal-orientated thought process really shifts perspective, even from a manager standpoint, of what you're looking for. Because if you're just looking for a doer in terms of tasks, it's like a lot of people can fit that role until you hire them and realize that the goals and the direction essentially that you were trying to hire someone for wasn't really filled. It was just for those certain little key things, and so it's like getting to narrow down on who you're trying to actually hire allows you to really understand the job that you're hiring for even more.

Speaker 2: 32:22

I mean, how many times have any of us heard from somebody in our life? I applied for that job and I got the job, and then I got into the company and the job that I applied for doesn't wind up being the job that I'm doing Right, and the reason that that happens is that they hadn't thought it through fully, or a different scenario, but I think, equally common. You are applying for a job and the interview process seems to go on and on and on and you get asked the same questions over. It's because they haven't thought it through and really top tier candidates will not put up with that, and you know what they shouldn't, because there are organizations who have thought these things through and that's who deserves the really top talent, and top talent will walk away from that, and they tend to do it silently, but they still walk away. Because if you can't be bothered to put in the time as a boss to think through why you're hiring this role and how you're going to measure success, why should I take time to go fill that role for you? So an interesting aspect you just mentioned was the walking away silently. Can you explain that a little bit? Do I want to solve the kind of problems that this job has. Does somebody have a plan for my growth and development and am I going to be able to take feedback from this person?

Speaker 2: 34:03

I think that's what most of us, whether we recognize it explicitly or not. That's what most of us are thinking as we start to apply for jobs. Along with other things that matter Is the location right? Is the money right? Does the schedule fit the life that I want to lead? So if I'm a top tier candidate and I come in to sit down for an interview with you and you haven't thought through any of these things, why would I give you the time of day? But I'm not going to get up and pout and storm out. I'm going to do the interview and I'm going to smile and then I'm going to leave and we're going to shake hands and then the recruiter is going to follow up with me and I'm going to be like ah, you know what I had. I had another offer, even if I didn't have another offer, because I don't want to deal with that and that's walking away silently oh, I was.

Speaker 1: 34:46

I was thinking of it in the terms of like, how said the hiring for tasks or hiring for a purpose or a goal or an orientated thing? Top tier talent. If they get hired, and even though you make it sound goal-orientated, if you're a manager and your mindset is only task-orientated, then a top tier candidate is going to slowly start unlinking from the job and start slowly kind of wanting to get out, even if they already got hired, because you're not thinking in the terms of growth for that candidate. So everything you give them will be given in a task format versus an outcome format. And so I think that it was just that unique perspective change on transforming a manager not only to hire in a way of goal orientation but also to hire in a way of goal orientation, but also to manage from a goal orientation spot as well. You know.

Speaker 2: 35:37

Devin. When you and I first connected, one of the things that really caught my eye was just the name of your show, the Mindset Cafe. Mindset matters so much to everything we do, whether it's working out or working in business, or becoming better at something that we want to become better at. Mindset matters hugely and to the point that you were just making there. The manager who sees themselves as a controller, like I, need to give you work and ensure that you're controlling it. Versus the mindset that says hey, my job is to unlock your creativity, You're going to figure out how. That says hey, my job is to unlock your creativity. You're going to figure out how to solve the problems. I've got to get the obstacles out of your path. That manager is the one that people want to work for, but you've got to start with the mindset. There are some skills that go along with that, but the most important thing is just that manager deciding hey, my mindset is going to be this. Now I'm going to go figure out how to make that a reality, and you know.

Speaker 1: 36:36

No, no, definitely that's what I'm saying. I think it's unique that your company and your software is getting, because it all starts with the mindset right, and so everything with employment starts at the hiring process. So getting a manager to shift their perspective on the hiring phase is going to allow them to open up their mindset for the onboarding, for the actual continuation of someone's employment and not just that initial phase. So I think it's really unique that Propulsion is almost shaping managers not to just hire better but how to manage better as well. I mean, that's what I'm kind of getting from it and I think that's a unique little twist and almost like an additional resource that managers do get. So I think that's super awesome. What are, I would say, maybe like with hiring and with everything like that, like what is some common areas? Because I know we're kind of talking about it now, but with employee retention, like, what do you see are some common challenges that companies are facing With?

Speaker 2: 37:38

specifically to retention Correct. Well, I mean, you know, generationally there's been a big shift toward flexibility or toward toward that being the desirable characteristic. I'm going to have to look it up for you, but I can. I can find the stat. There is a study that I saw recently that suggested that about 50 percent of the work population would trade pay for more flexibility. They would take a lower paying job if they had greater flexibility in that job.

Speaker 2: 38:15

And this is one of the reasons, again, that we think outcomes are so incredibly important. Because if my job is the outcome, then do you really care when and where I work? What you care is is that am I moving closer to that outcome or not? And it's super objective, right? And I think that goes directly to will people stay? Is it a fair circumstance, right? Am I being? Is it possible for me to achieve, even if it's hard? Is it possible? And am I being evaluated objectively?

Speaker 2: 38:42

And the more objectively we are evaluating people, then the more we can turn it into a growth exercise rather than a punitive exercise, it being performance management, and I think that goes directly to people wanting to stay in jobs. Is the work interesting? Do I have the opportunity to succeed. Am I an owner in air quotes? Right, you're not obviously going to be always a financial owner, but am I being asked to just do tasks or am I being asked to own the outcomes? And then is my performance being rated objectively? If you have those factors and you have a flexible work environment, then that's where people want to go and want to stay as long as they're contributing. No, definitely. That is so awesome Now.

Speaker 1: 39:23

I do want to go and want to stay as long as they're they're contributing. No, definitely that. That is so, so awesome. Now I do want to ask something that you mentioned earlier with top tier talent and everything like that. There's that saying that you know basically the best employees are already have jobs, are already working with someone else you know. And so what would your advice be or what would your software kind of cause? I know it helps like generate like who you're looking for in job descriptions and stuff, but does it, does it help paint like a picture of who you're trying to hire as well? So like not, and I don't want this to be taken, you know, out of context. I'm never saying you should poach a, an employee, but you know at the same time, you know people see things, and so if you are marketing and an employee sees your marketing ad, then it is what it is. So does it help you kind of hone down on who your top tier really is?

Speaker 2: 40:18

Well, typically there's two things that are hard for managers to do. One is we've been talking about which is thinking through those outcomes and how you're going to measure the outcomes. The other is describing their ideal candidate, and we have a feature within Propulsion AI called Behavior Compass. It's a set of 13 proprietary scales that can be applied to different types of work, and each of the scales has between seven and eight dimensions, and each dimension is a pair of juxtaposed words. So I'll give you an example.

Speaker 2: 40:51

I have worked for two companies and in each of those two companies I had the exact same title in both and I had an almost identical job description. Yet in the first company, the way that I needed to show up to deliver value was very strategy focused, very far down the road, very next technology coming, get the right team in place. And in the second company remember same title and almost identical job description the need was for me to roll up my sleeves and be a frontline contributor, even though I had a C-level title. It was be a frontline recruiter, be a frontline HR business partner, be a frontline comp person, actually do the work while I was leading the team. If I'm not set up to deliver value in one of those ways, I'm obviously not going to be a fit in one of those companies, despite what the job description says.

Speaker 2: 41:46

So what behavior compass does is like in our leadership scale, we have a dimension that is strategy versus execution. How are you more oriented? Are you more strategy focused? Are you more execution focused? And, in the case of of our platform of propulsion, AI, it's really the manager thinking about what they need in this role. How does value need to be delivered in this particular role? And that becomes, along with competencies and an algorithm that actually blends a handful of things. That's how Athena, our digital human, helps the user write the statement about their ideal candidate. That's interesting. That's really cool.

Speaker 2: 42:27

Now what that's going to turn into for the future and I try and stay away from the future because right now we're laser focused just on what we've released and making sure that we are saturating the market and delivering value to organizations. But as we think about the future, when I start to design that role and I say here's how value needs to be delivered, we will at some point pair that with candidate assessments that help us understand, like there is a way that value needs to be delivered in the role and there is a way I am naturally set up to contribute value in an organization. And when those things match, that's where we find fit.

Speaker 1: 43:06

That's super interesting, though. That's really cool. What have you found? What challenges have you found? Or you know, I guess this kind of goes back to the entrepreneur question, but in terms of like scaling and growing, you know your company what have you been kind of facing or overcoming? God?

Speaker 2: 43:25

yeah, I mean, like I mean, I think our biggest problem is not enough people know about us. So you know, that's why I do a three, four podcast appearances a week, why we send out, you know, a newsletter to 10,000 people every month, why you know we're we're trying, you know, everything we can to just broaden the number of people that understand our solution. What our customers are telling us is they originally think about us because they need to write a job description. What they discover is this unlocking process that their managers go through, where they start to really think differently about the roles. I think you said a second ago it's almost a little reprogramming of their management style and that's exactly what we intended.

Speaker 2: 44:13

But people don't know about that. Once they figure it out, they love it. Our customers give us great feedback about the product. Saves their recruiters four to five hours per role about the product. Saves their recruiters four to five hours per role, saves their HR business partners and allows them to move to a sort of higher level with their managers. So once people get onto the platform, they love it. But I think our biggest problem is not enough people know about it yet.

Speaker 1: 44:38

No, I got you. I believe me, I can relate in the franchise world for us, so I got you. Now, before we wrap up, I do want to ask one question, right, and the one question is basically, and I will say this it's not a tombstone, so don't answer it like a tombstone. It is the Scott Morris legacy wall and on this legacy wall is the one message that you would leave for the up and coming generations that you've learned along your life journey till this part LFG you know, just get out there and do it.

Speaker 2: 45:08

Just drop the fear, don't drop the self-doubt, and go and experiment and you're going to fail and that's okay, and you're going to get up and you're going to try it again. If your mindset is you're not going to be stopped, then you're not going to be stopped, and I think that's the big thing that I need to keep learning. And then I think a lot of people need to take to heart Just go do it.

Speaker 1: 45:34

No, that's so awesome. Where can people connect with you or learn more about Propulsion AI?

Speaker 2: 45:39

So LinkedIn is probably the best. If you want to get me personally, if you go to linkedincom, slash in slash M, scott M, so my name with M's on both sides, and then if you want to find propulsion on the web, it's getpropulsionai, getpropulsionai.

Speaker 1: 46:00

Perfect, and all that will be in the show notes. Guys, if you're watching it on YouTube, it'll be in the YouTube notes or description, as well. But, guys, make sure you guys share this episode with a friend. That's what helps us grow and, at the end of the day, we're here to help you on your personal journey. So make sure you guys help one of your friends on their personal journey as well by sharing this show and letting them know that we're here. But, Scott, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to hop on and drop so much fun knowledge and, honestly, I'm excited to dive into Propulsion AI and see what everything is going on with that. So thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 46:31

Hey man, thank you. I'm glad you do this show and I'm glad you're doing great work, and I'm honored that you had me on. So thanks a lot, devin, it's been fun. Of course we'll connect soon. So many positive thoughts. Missing the game of life. My set calls the shots, got my mind on the prize. I can't be distracted. I stay on my grind. No time to be slackin'. I hustle harder. I go against the current Cause. I know my mind is rich to be collected.