184. Guest: Jessica Setnick - Transforming Nutrition & Eating Behaviors

 Join host Devan Gonzalez on the Mindset Cafe as he welcomes renowned dietitian and eating behavior expert Jessica Setnick for a deep dive into the powerful connection between mindset, nutrition, and eating habits. Discover how childhood experiences shape our food choices, why social media impacts body image, and practical strategies for fostering healthy eating in children. Jessica also shares how to separate emotions from eating decisions, reframe food from the “enemy” to a supportive tool, and build a positive environment that nurtures a healthier relationship with what’s on your plate. Don’t miss this enlightening conversation packed with mindset shifts that can help you transform your approach to food...for good. 


https://www.JessicaSetnick.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Mindset Cafe
• 11:30 Guest Introduction: Jessica Setnick
• 22:45 The Impact of Childhood on Eating Behaviors
• 34:15 The Role of Social Media in Body Image
• 47:30 Teaching Healthy Eating to Kids
• 55:00 Legacy Wall: Setting Your Own Boundaries

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe. We all about that mindset. Gotta stay focused. Now go settle for the last. It's all in your head how you think you manifest. So get ready to rise, cause we about to be the best. Gotta switch it up. Gotta break the old habits. Get your mind right. Turn your dreams into habits. No negative vibes, only positive vibes. What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of the Mindset Cafe podcast. Up, guys, welcome to another episode of the mindset cafe podcast. It's your boy, devin.

Speaker 1: 0:28

And today I am honored to be co-hosting this with a special guest, right jessica setnick. She is a leading voice in redefining our relationship with food and eating behaviors and this is honestly an interesting topic because we've talked about nutrition and stuff on the mindset cafe before, but some of jessica's expertise and some on the Mindset Cafe before, but some of Jessica's expertise and some of the things that we'll dive into today really changes the mindset about nutrition and allows you to really open up with it. So I don't want to dive too much into her story because I want her to be the voice of all that, but without further ado, jessica, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to hop on.

Speaker 2: 1:03

I am delighted to be here and you already have me super enthusiastic because I do a lot of podcast interviews and not everyone gets it and I can tell you already get it without me even saying anything.

Speaker 1: 1:15

So no, thank you so much. And I mean, before we get diving into the nutrition and everything like that, I always like to start with you know your backstory, and not from a professional standpoint, but what was your, your childhood bring up, what was your childhood like? And then we kind of transitioned into. You know where we're at today?

Speaker 2: 1:34

So you want to do some therapy? Got it Okay? So my childhood I can tell you I have lots of mixed feelings about it. My dad was an entrepreneur, my mom was a librarian and so, oh and my dad, by the way, was super smart he had to drop out of school. Uh-oh, cough coming. He had to drop out of school at 12 when his dad died to support his family. And then later in his 20s, he took the GED, put himself through college with scholarships and went and got an MBA at MIT. So, super smart person. So both of these people.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Whenever you would ask a question like you just thought you were asking like, how do you spell New Hampshire? The encyclopedias would come out and you'd be like, oh my God, I only wanted to know how to spell it. So we kind of learned how to do research and how to think critically. It was really ingrained at a really young age. And so when I went to school I didn't know what I wanted to do to college. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I just thought, for sure I'd be an entrepreneur and a CEO.

Speaker 2: 2:37

And then, when I found out you have to start at the bottom, I was kind of like, let's think about something else.

Speaker 2: 2:43

So I was taking these classes that didn't really add up to a major, but I was just picking the classes that I liked and then suddenly I realized, wait, this is almost an anthropology major, and if anyone listening doesn't know what anthropology is, I didn't know until I got a major in it. But it's a study of human beings and that was so interesting to me how people develop individually and as a culture, and the way we use words and how our bodies change based on the inputs we put in, like food and I thought it was so interesting. So then, when I took a nutrition class as an elective, it was like this aha moment of putting this all together and I love the idea of how people develop on an individual level, not just on a culture or population level, but how people make the decisions they make about eating and how it affects them, and I thought this was super fascinating and I was like, oh, I have a career, I have a direction now, and that's how I became a dietitian.

Speaker 1: 3:41

That's so awesome. So I mean the whole whole the anthropology and everything right, that is so interesting. It was you know kind of how I went about college as well. So that's the funny thing, I didn't go to anthropology but I went to kinesiology. That was from starting as a business management major, not knowing what I wanted to do, and then all of a sudden I remember sitting in accounting class and I was like okay, this is definitely not where it's at. And then, you know, I was working as a personal trainer and I was like, wait, I can get a degree in this. This is way more fun learning about how the body moves and everything. So it's so cool to hear someone similar story like that.

Speaker 2: 4:17

Well, and we have something in. Oh we're back, okay.

Speaker 1: 4:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:23

So we're not live right, we're just recording. Yep, okay, great. So we have something in common, because when I took that nutrition class in college, there was no nutrition major but they had a few nutrition classes in the nursing school. So the next one after nutrition was nutrition for fitness. So I took nutrition for fitness.

Speaker 2: 4:42

I was like I am going to be a sports nutritionist, done, sold. And I went to the college counseling office and they had nothing on any of this. And I found this one book called your Career in Sports. And in the one book I found one page that said sports nutritionist. And it said your success in this career. Oh, first it said your salary would be 7,000 to 80,000 plus. And I was like, okay, I'm definitely in the 80,000 plus, that's 7,000. Definitely no. And it said your success in this field will have to do with your education, your motivation and your communication skills. And I was like sold, like I got it.

Speaker 2: 5:23

And that's how I then got to decide I wanted to get a master's in sports nutrition because I wanted to be the nutritionist for the Dallas Cowboys, which was not a job that existed, but I was like I will just convince them that this is what they need from me and I was the mascot of our football team in college and so I was like I'll just that'll be a credential, I'll just tell them I know all about football. So I was like I'll just that'll be a credential, I'll just tell them I know all about football. It was so misguided, but it was just enthusiasm just bursting out of me and I think that's probably what you're describing too Like when you find something that you're like whoa, this is so interesting. And there's probably someone who feels that way about accounting, but it wasn't you. And you felt that way about kinesiology and you were like, oh phew, there's a path for me that I can enjoy and also make a living. That's how I felt about sports nutrition.

Speaker 2: 6:07

But once I got into the master's program I realized, okay, we're not really talking about that stuff that I wanted to talk about, like the psychology of eating and why people make the choices they make and why people do things that they regret immediately. Why did you do it if you regret it? Right, all that stuff. And I found that, even though that to me belongs in sports nutrition, it belongs in diabetes nutrition, it belongs in every kind of nutrition.

Speaker 2: 6:32

The only place was really kosher, to talk about it back in 1994 was in the eating disorder field, and so that's how it's sort of like none of this was planned Right. I had to keep going to each step to get to the place where I eventually got. And I feel like that's where mindset comes in is kind of that idea of I don't have a path, but I believe there may be a path, but I have to keep walking to find the path. Like staying where I am is not going to help me find the path. I have to just at least set out on a path to find the next path.

Speaker 1: 7:01

No, that's that is so awesome, and so I. I I do have a question for you, like with that whole interest in stuff. I mean, like I know my interest from kinesiology came from like loving to work out and and being a personal trainer, as what I thought was just going to be a college job later turned to. You know my whole purpose and why did you ever have a dysfunctional relationship with food, or was it? Who doesn't?

Speaker 2: 7:27

Yes, yes, and that has actually become my platform is let's stop talking about eating disorders as, like this, very rare thing that affects these very few people, and instead say we all have dysfunctional eating behaviors and some of us have the genes that make it life threatening, but we all do the same stuff. We all maybe I won't say all but think, if you're a listener, have you ever weighed yourself every day for a week, or more than once a day? Have you ever skipped meals because you're trying to fit into certain clothes, like? The things that cause eating disorders are the things that all of us do and sometimes even think of as normal, but if you have the genes for it, it develops into a bigger problem. So a lot of this was me trying to figure out what was wrong with me, and so, for example, I'm very impressionable, so I would read in my nutrition classes everything. When they said do a report on something and you got to pick, I would always lean toward eating disorders. And so I read about this eating disorder called carb craving, which eventually became known as binge eating disorder, and I was like, oh, I have that. And so I went to the nutritionist at the school and said I think I have this eating disorder and she said basically poo-pooed me, you know, because I wasn't emaciated, right, and so it was me kind of trying to figure out what's going on with me.

Speaker 2: 8:41

And I only realized later how significant my eating disorder was. Because there's these criteria, you know, that you learn in school and it's like, oh, I didn't do it that often or I didn't have that severe of a problem, or I never lost that much weight, and so it was real easy for me to sort of pretend or be in denial, if you want to call it that that I really had a problem and it was only right before I went to grad school that I was like sitting in the bathroom I hope it's okay if I get graphic, but like finished throwing up, like sitting there sweating and being like why? Why would I do that? And if I want to be a role model for people with their eating, I have to have a better relationship with food. And it was this aha moment.

Speaker 2: 9:20

I know it sounds silly like I'm recreating, like crafting this beautiful aha moment after the fact, but I'm telling you it was an aha moment in the moment and I thought, oh, my God, this isn't about the food I ate too much, felt like I had to get rid of it. Got rid of it because I was disappointed, because the boy I had a crush on didn't go to the party. It became like clear as a bell to me all of a sudden that this was about me and my feelings, and I was taking it out on food and my body.

Speaker 2: 9:50

And that's when everything started to get better. And I know that was a long answer to your question of did I ever have dysfunctional eating? But yes, absolutely. And I'm not going to say that my eating is perfect now, because that's not a goal that I have is to have perfect eating, but it's to be more in touch with when my eating or my feelings start to sort of tiptoe toward affecting my eating and to pull back and handle the feelings without letting it get involved in my food.

Speaker 1: 10:14

No, definitely, and something that I want to rewind to something you said too, because what you just said, right there was you know you don't have perfect eating, but again, having perfect eating would almost be a dysfunctional relationship to a degree, because now you're so keen on everything that you're eating and I feel like there's a spectrum to it. Right, there's there's having a disorder, right, you know, such as you know starving yourself or you know having to throw up or some of those other things the carb, the binging and so forth, but again, but the dysfunctional, like when you said weighing yourself on the scale and so forth, I feel like that could be. There's a two-sided parts of that coin. It's like if you're weighing yourself on a scale just because you don't want to gain a pound, versus you're weighing yourself on a scale because you're essentially into fitness and you're trying to improve your numbers and so forth, like that. There has to be two sides to it, am I wrong?

Speaker 2: 11:12

Devin, I knew you got it the minute you started talking. Yes, it's all about information, right. Information is can be a weapon or a tool. It's all about how you use it Exactly. There might be an athlete who weighs themselves after a run because they want to know how much water they need to replenish for hydration. Right, if you lose a pound while you're running, all you lost is water. That's the only thing you can lose in a one run, and so that could be a beneficial reason, right?

Speaker 2: 11:40

If someone, like, eats a handful of carrots and then gets on the scale to see if they've gained weight, right, it's just a scale. The scale can't control things, but it's the motivation. You have to go to it, and then it's how you feel when you're walking away and the PS is whatever. You think getting on the scale solves. If you have to go back again a little while later, it didn't solve it, right? If it's just information, then you get on the scale and you're like oh good, information Bye. But if you feel compelled, like, but maybe I need to check now, then that tells me that that information didn't solve it for you. So there's some other kind of need underneath.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Yes, yes, and like that's one of the things that with our clients, like at our gyms and stuff too, like we don't just do weight, because weight is very, a very generic number and and I like to like relationship to that someone saying like, oh, I had a hundred calories snack and I'm like okay, of what? Like that's too that there's so many other things that go into that. So like for us, we have a body composition scanner that does you know the in body, that does your body mass, your your muscle mass, all that stuff. And I was like at the end of the day, you might go up or down a pound on the scale, I don't care about that, I care about the other numbers so that I can use those in the formula to help you with your meal plan or help you with, you know, knowing your, your numbers, essentially your stats, to keep you improving.

Speaker 2: 12:59

You know what I love about that? Because there are people who obsessing, you know, can obsess about that stuff. So, again, it's a weapon or tool, right, and you're trying to help people use it as a tool. What I love is that you're trying to use it as a tool for people to compare to themselves and not to compare to other people and not to compare to fictitious standards. That's so important too.

Speaker 1: 13:21

No, definitely, and that's one of the reasons why I hate when. I hate when clients and this is ever since I've been a personal trainer and it's been, you know, a decade and a half and clients would go to the doctors and then they'd be like my BMI, that says I'm obese, and I was like I don't care what your BMI is. Like that is a bullshit.

Speaker 2: 13:41

Meaningless information in my world.

Speaker 1: 13:43

Exactly. I was like you have to think I was advised up on the scale right now I'm going to be obese. I was like, do I look obese to you? They're like, no, I'm like okay. Then I was like you got to think that doesn't take into consideration like body fat or body fat, muscle mass or anything. It's just saying height, weight, height weight. And I was like that it's so outdated that that let's not go off of that.

Speaker 2: 14:03

Yeah, even the word obesity is outdated. There are people who are bigger and that's just normal for them and there's nothing wrong with it. No, yeah, I mean there's nothing wrong with anyone who's bigger Obesity is such a I don't know such a label. I hate putting people in boxes.

Speaker 1: 14:18

No, definitely. I mean, you have to, you have to love where you're at and you have to appreciate where you're at. But main thing is that are you living the life that you want? Are with what you're doing and so forth, right?

Speaker 2: 14:30

um soulmates. Yes, that is a happily married woman same same here, except man, um.

Speaker 1: 14:44

So I do want to dive into the mindset, the psychology, because that's that's super interesting to me. Right, how, especially with, I know, at least like one of the basic you know answers would be social media and you know pressures like that. But how does one start to get out of essentially that trap that social media or magazines or news starts to create that you have to look like this to be, you know, good looking or be great. Be, you know, good looking or be great.

Speaker 2: 15:11

Yeah. So it's really complicated, as you know, because you know all of this was going on before social media. But social media brings it to you like 24 seven, like with a magazine you'd have to at least go to the store and buy a magazine, and with you know the way TV used to be. It was like shows were on and then they weren't on anymore. And now it's like 24 seven, you can get all the information you want and or all the imagery, et cetera. And so just one tiny example one study was done probably 15, 20 years ago, before social media, and it was just people putting a magazine into that plastic magazine rack while they walked on the treadmill or jogged on the treadmill, and it showed that people who looked at like a nature magazine had all these good chemicals in their body. People who looked at a fitness magazine and were looking at pictures, imagery of you know super fit people, they didn't have those same effects. They didn't feel like that elevated mood when they got off the treadmill. It totally ruined it for them. And so I feel like that's kind of what social media is doing is sort of ruining our ability to be happy with what's going on in our own lives because we're just constantly comparing, comparing, comparing.

Speaker 2: 16:18

And this is going to sound super weird, okay, but let's go back to ancient history. For a long time, people didn't have the ability to see what they looked like. Okay, I mean, maybe they could like look down into a pool of water and see sort of a you know ripply reflection, or maybe they had like a shiny piece of metal that they could sort of look in and see what they look like. But people were not as able to see there. There were no photographs, right, there was no such thing as mirrors, so our brains have not developed to absorb all this information about even ourselves and then compare it to other people. So it's very confusing. It's almost like hearing your own voice. For most of history, people only heard their voice as spoken. They couldn't hear a recording of their voice, so our brains have not developed to adapt to hearing our own voice. So lots of people hate hearing their voice when they hear it recorded, because we don't have the ability to process it correctly.

Speaker 2: 17:14

And I think maybe it's the same thing with the way we look. We are bombarded all the time with photos of ourselves, selfies and all kinds of imagery of ourselves, and we don't really have the tools to process it correctly and say that's not really me, that's a two-dimensional image of me or a snapshot of me in time. And so that's where I feel like things get really muddied with social media, because it's not just seeing pictures of others, it's seeing pictures of ourselves, and then we're not only comparing ourselves to others, we're comparing ourselves to ourselves to the bad angle. If you happen to have the bad luck to be the person on the end and your arm is like the closest to the camera and it looks giant. The bad luck to be the person on the end and your arm is like the closest to the camera and it looks giant, you know you can make up all kinds of stuff based on this imagery. So I would say yes to social media, but I would say social media it's because it exacerbates the amount of imagery coming in for us.

Speaker 1: 18:05

No, I definitely agree with that, and I guess the reason I'm going to kind of go into this tangent is I do have a three-year-old daughter, right, and knowing that one day this is hopefully it doesn't ever happen, but it might be a topic that you know we have to talk, and not saying that it can't happen with boys and so forth, but I've just seen it in my lifetime more with, like you know, women in my family and you know even my, one of my sister-in-laws and so it's like this idea that you have to look a certain way and then you basically almost view food as the enemy, right, Instead of realizing that food is actually to get the body that you want. You could actually have an amazing diet and, you know, work out and everything like that. You don't have to just eliminate food, right. So let's say, let's say someone comes to you and they view food as the enemy, right, Because they want to look essentially like a magazine model, right? What would your reframing to them start to be?

Speaker 2: 19:10

I, know it's kind of a complicated question, but yeah, no, I totally get it and I don't work with individuals anymore, except in my workshops. But you're, you're, you're just touching. I mean, my workshop called healing your inner ear used to be called making food your friend again. So I loved how you said food feels like the enemy. What I would reframe for someone is I would say what is it that you imagine will be different about your life? If your body were different and I will listen very closely for what they say I would have confidence. People would like me better. I would have an easier time getting to class. I don't know what it would be. I'd have an easier time picking clothes out in the morning. I wouldn't know what it would be. I'd have an easier time picking clothes out in the morning. I wouldn't feel as paranoid about everything I eat and whatever those items are that they imagine changing their body is going to get them. I would try to help them work toward getting those things without changing their body. So it's like let's separate this. I will help you with your food, no problem, but helping you with your food doesn't guarantee that you're going to feel more confident, doesn't guarantee that people will like you better, doesn't guarantee you'll have an easier time in school, right? So let's use that sort of thing we're blaming on the body and figure out what are those things that you may be able to work with a coach on more confidence, even without losing weight. I'm not saying that your body might not change, but no matter what size your body is, you deserve to feel confident, and so let's figure out what those other things are that seem like. Oh, I can only grasp that if I also change my body, so that would be. Number one is figuring out what it is you're really going for, that you're sort of using the language of changing your body to try to get. The other side is.

Speaker 2: 20:55

I usually use the description of a couch or a car. If you live in like a commuter place, think about a couch, because not everyone has a car. But if you have a couch at home, think about it like this Do you love your couch? Like? Do you like? Hug your couch and be like I love you so much Like? Probably not, but you may not even like your couch and be like I love you so much like probably not, but you may not even like your couch. You may hate your couch, but if you rip up your couch and throw all the stuffing everywhere. You have nowhere to sit when you watch tv. So you take care of your couch, even if you don't love it, and that's how I want you to think about your body. You don't love it, got it? But doing shitty things, is that okay? If I say that, yeah okay to your body. You don't love it, got it, but doing shitty things, is that okay?

Speaker 1: 21:33

if I say that, yeah, you're good.

Speaker 2: 21:34

Okay To your body doesn't actually help. You love your body more. So let's work on taking care of your body for that future you that either is more accepting of your body or maybe for you in a different shape body, if that's what happens. But let's take care of you now so that you have practice and PS, you have a place to live.

Speaker 1: 21:56

I love that and I love that I'm a I'm a huge analogy person, like I love analogies and and being able to create it, so it gives someone a better view of the situation or of the topic. So I think that is huge, and I love the couch and the car analogy too. I'm definitely-.

Speaker 2: 22:15

Well, here's another one for you, then.

Speaker 2: 22:17

If you are driving a Pinto.

Speaker 2: 22:19

I don't even know if they make those anymore, but I'm just thinking of like a little.

Speaker 2: 22:22

You know a Gremlin and you're like, oh, I throw my trash all around the car and I don't really get it washed because it's so bleh. But when I have a Porsche I am going to like wash it and wax it and take care of it and park it in the garage and it's going to be like number one, excuse me. Well then, start taking care of your Pinto or your Gremlin, because otherwise you don't have the skills and when you do get that Porsche, you're not going to remember to wash it every day or wax it or take your trash out every day because you haven't developed those skills. So if you're hoping to have a different car someday, treat the car you've got now as best you possibly can and whatever that means to you. If that means getting a facial once a week or a pedicure or taking bubble baths or just getting like a fancy hand lotion that smells really good, like whatever it is you imagine you would do to take care of yourself when you're different, start doing it now.

Speaker 1: 23:16

No, definitely. And unlike a couch, unlike a car, you don't get another body Right. And so that's the. That's the one thing I want to like. Stress too is like you don't get another one of these, and so it's like, even if you don't like it, maybe I'll give you a story, for example, right, my first car was a 1990, 1990 Honda Accord, right, and it wasn't the sexiest car, it was, you know, my grandma's old car and you know I tend to the windows and I loved it because I had a car right.

Speaker 1: 23:49

But I didn't love it that I had a 1990, you know that, basically little hoopty car. But then I started to love little things about it, right, and so sometimes you might not love your body, but you can appreciate certain attributes or certain things, and that will give you at least a little bit of light to start to appreciate it as a whole. Because, again, you only get one of them. And I will say about the 1990 Accord, I remember I was so wish my car now had. This is the seatbelt that you close the door and goes. You know, rolls up and locks. That was the coolest thing.

Speaker 2: 24:24

You know, I love that idea that we start really small, and I also love that you use the word appreciation. Right, it doesn't have to be body love, it doesn't even have to be body acceptance, but body appreciation. That's cool.

Speaker 1: 24:39

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't. You don't need to enjoy everything, but if you can appreciate it and be grateful, because some people don't have what you have and they wish they could have the body you had. You know what I?

Speaker 2: 24:50

really appreciate is when I get like I don't know I'm always just in the kitchen and stuff like that. I'm always really amazed that my body can heal, like when I see a scab form and then it gets smaller, like stuff like that. I feel like everyone has that, but we we overlook it as so little or minute and really healing is even an amazing thing. I know it's not about how your body looks, but it's something that maybe if someone could start really small, if they need to, and just appreciate that tiny thing that your body can heal a paper cut that's. That's weird.

Speaker 1: 25:26

I don't know how it works.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Yeah, there's. No, there's no right way or wrong way to you know what to appreciate and what not to appreciate. It's you know what can you start appreciating what can you have gratitude for now, and then it will build, because the more you start to have a gratitude mindset, or at least a view of gratitude or appreciation, that light starts to brighten and brighten, and brighten and then you start to view other things. My thing I always go to is how you do. One thing is how you do everything. So if you can start appreciating something, you'll start being more appreciative of a lot of things and over time those little things start to compound and then you won't even notice it and all of a sudden, looking back, you're like, wow, I'm surprised, I didn't appreciate all these things.

Speaker 2: 26:10

I love that idea. I think of it like when I'm trying to ask someone to kind of change a habit. It's like a super highway, like I live in Dallas. So let's say I'm driving to Houston, I go 85, whatever the speed limit is, plus like five or 10, right, I don't know how many exits there are from Dallas to Houston. If you ask me how many exit ramps, I have no idea. But if you ask me to drive 35 miles an hour down the highway, I could probably pick them out. I'd probably also get crashed into.

Speaker 2: 26:39

So a middle ground is sort of like hey, how about trying to notice three exits on the highway, right, and that's the way you sort of start to build and then you're able to sort of build. That skill and I think that's the same thing you're saying is that if you can start small and appreciate one thing or two things or three things, it doesn't turn you into someone overnight who like walks around, like I love my body, like who does that, but it gets you sort of in that right direction. So the momentum starts to build and it somehow becomes sort of automatic. And here's the thing you probably know this, Maybe you don't, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 27:12

I didn't know it, but when you actually change those habits, you're actually changing neural pathways in your brain. So at first it's really hard to do and then it does actually become more automatic. It's like tying your shoe, like when you learn to tie your shoe I don't know, there's a lot of Velcro now but if you learn to tie your shoe it's like loop, loop, oops, start again, and now you can probably tie your shoes with your eyes closed. But it's not because tying your shoe became easier, it's because your skills got better. So I love that mindset of working on your skills, even though it feels awkward and weird at first, because it just takes time. No one learns Mandarin Chinese in one day. You just have to keep practicing and then it becomes more innate, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 27:54

Yes, you're on the same page, exactly. So I do want to kind of take a pivot and go into what roles or what role does this like, diet culture or this diet? Fads in societal expectations play in unhealthy eating habits.

Speaker 2: 28:16

It's enormous. It's like we're all swimming in this ocean and no matter how sort of pure I don't know if that's the right word, I'll use safe no matter how safe we make our own home where everyone is accepted, everybody is beautiful, everyone is loved and safe, everyone gets nourished when their body needs it. All of that, you still walk out into the world and you get sort of drowned with this diet culture everywhere and it's really hard to keep that North Star, let's call it, or keep that direction that you even and you talked about your daughter everything that you're trying to give her, excuse me, everything that you're trying to give her, there's that danger that it all just gets flooded away when she leaves home, and so the best defense against that is to speak it and to say in our house everybody's body is beautiful, appreciated, we love each other, we talk kindly to each other, we talk kindly to ourselves, everyone's safe, having feelings. But there's other places where that's not always true, and so if you are ever anywhere and you feel unsafe, or someone is commenting negatively on your body or you don't get about yourself, I want you to tell me about it so we can talk through it together, and that's the only way to make it okay.

Speaker 2: 29:34

You can't pretend that it's not out there. You also want to try not to bring it into your own home. If it does come into your own home in the form of a TV show or social media or something like that, how powerful is it to sit there and scroll through social media with your kid and say I'm just curious, show me the things that you like to look at. I'll show you the things that I like to look at and just have a conversation. I keep pausing when I have a cough because I assume you're going to edit it out or someone's got to.

Speaker 1: 30:01

You're good, you got it Okay.

Speaker 2: 30:03

So that's the idea is to give your daughter sort of the skills by her hearing you discuss it, not you saying commenting on other people's food or weight or bodies, but when you hear that happen to say something like oh, that's not how we talk about food in our family, or oh, that's not how we talk about bodies in our family. In our family, we believe this and this, so that she can carry that out in the world and know that other people may feel differently, just like other people may feel differently about all kinds of things, but she has that sort of strong roots at home where she can come back with her questions of why did this person do this? Or, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. You're giving her a good route, but also being aware that there's a lot out there that's going to influence her and you want your home to be a safe place to talk about it.

Speaker 1: 30:50

No, definitely, and that kind of goes into the next question I wanted to ask too, because I mean there's creating a safe space, there's, you know, showing how you can appreciate. You know, like we were just talking about, but is there anything that we can do to essentially help teach healthy eating behaviors?

Speaker 2: 31:08

Okay. So this is a great question and I actually just recently gave a presentation to teachers and educators about this. It's really the opposite of what you think, because our instinct is to teach kids about nutrition, like you just said, to teach kids about carbs and fats and processed foods and all this stuff. And all of that is just vomiting our issues onto kids. It is totally age inappropriate for them. How old did you say your daughter is?

Speaker 1: 31:34

She's three.

Speaker 2: 31:35

Okay, so perfect example. Your daughter at three. This is what she needs to know. Stop on red, go on green. Like you don't tell her, you know, sometimes, when the light's been red for a while and no one else is coming, I go right, you don't tell her that you don't say sometimes when it's green, if there's a car coming, I stop right. You just say red means stop, green means go, because she doesn't have the discernment right.

Speaker 2: 32:00

So when you say something to a three-year-old like oh, that sugary cereal is bad for you. She doesn't have the discernment to understand the levels of what you're saying and if she sees a friend eat that sugary cereal, she's like is my friend going to die? That cereal is bad for you. It's equal to saying don't eat a penny, it's bad for you. You know what I mean. They don't have discernment and so we're putting all this age inappropriate stuff onto kids and what we really want to do is teach them to follow their own inner hunger cues. When they say, can I have something to eat, you can say sure, is your tummy hungry for this? Is your tummy hungry for that? We can talk about your tummy being hungry Like role modeling to them, saying things like wow, I feel like I ate a little too much at that meal. That doesn't make my tummy feel good. So, in other words, the lack of actual like teaching information is not the lack of teaching.

Speaker 2: 32:55

You're still educating, but with by doing and by involving involving your daughter in the kitchen, involving your daughter and going to the. It's a huge pain in the ass to take a three-year-old to the grocery store. You could do it a lot faster yourself, but once in a while it's important for her to go with you so that she gets that experience it's important to give her. I have triplets in my family who are three and a half. So I'm like right there with you.

Speaker 2: 33:19

And so the other day you know they want to be involved in the kitchen and I want them to cause. I know that's good for them and so I give them a cream cheese spreader Like you couldn't cut yourself with this if you stabbed yourself in the heart. Okay, there's no blade to it, basically, but they can still cut strawberries or watermelon with it. And so just getting them involved, you think, oh, but I'm not teaching them about watermelon is good and strawberries are bad or whatever, which they're not. But I'm just saying like no, I am teaching them an appreciation for the process of putting together a meal. I am teaching them to wash your hands before you touch food. It's you don't realize all the things you're teaching without being didactic.

Speaker 1: 33:58

No, definitely. And I mean I love that Cause. I mean that's something that we. I mean if, if we left it up to my daughter, she would eat fruit snacks for every single meal, Right? So like we don't tell her that she can't have fruit snacks, but like recently it's been waking up, you know, and she calls it candy, but that's just her, her word for it. And I'm like, okay, you can't have candy yet. Like we have to have food first. What do you want to eat? Right, and so it's not like you have to eat eggs or whatever. So it's like do you want cereal? Do you want, you know, pancakes, or whatever? The list goes on and on.

Speaker 1: 34:32

But it's like we have to start with food and then we can go to quote, unquote, candy, Right, and so. And so she'll be like, okay, fine, and then she'll pick something, and then by the time she's done eating her food, sometimes I mean she has a memory of an elephant. So when she's done, she said, okay, candy. Now. I'm like, okay, let's wait. Just, are you still hungry? Do you want the candy now, or do you want it in a little bit? Right, and she's like, uh, a little bit. I'm like, okay, we'll have it in a little bit, Let me know. So it's like getting her to understand that you can't just eat because she has a sweet tooth, like me can't just eat candy all the time. We have to actually eat real food and not containing what real food means.

Speaker 2: 35:15

May I offer a suggestion?

Speaker 1: 35:17

Definitely.

Speaker 2: 35:19

I would encourage you not to use the term real food, but I would phrase it more like um, candy plus cereal or pancakes gives you the energy you need. So in other words, not making it like candy bad, pancakes good, because that everybody wants what they can't have, right, but just more. The idea of candy just by itself doesn't give you all the energy you need. You're a hopping bunny and you need tons of energy all day. So let's do candy and a pancake. You know that kind of thing where you're just kind of rolling it all in.

Speaker 1: 35:54

No, that's, and we try to do that, like we don't say candy's bad, like you can't eat it, it's it. It's more, we try to do it like sequencing, like one and then two, right, so it's like like dinner and then dessert, and it's not just dessert kind of thing. So try to show her that it's like you could have this, but like these things go together, right, one and then two kind of thing, and again it could be she has her pick of whatever it is, but making sure that she still understands that it's like you can't only have this or else you know she'll literally only eat that.

Speaker 2: 36:28

Yeah, and that's perfect, because she's also saying you eat other things. She's offered a wide variety of food. I mean, that's all we can do as adults is offer the food at appropriate times and provide a pleasant mealtime environment where people aren't getting yelled at and that kind of thing. And then it's up to the kid what and how much they're going to eat. So it sounds like you have a great relationship with her. You're not trying to overload her with candy. Has too much sugar. Candy has too many carbs, candy doesn't have any vitamins.

Speaker 2: 36:56

Like that's just way, way beyond. But I think sometimes people think if I don't teach my kid that I'm being a bad parent. But really you're just confusing them.

Speaker 1: 37:06

Oh yeah, and I mean, she's way too little to even understand that, or else she just hit the what phase. So if you say something, she doesn't, it just goes into a spiral of what, what, why, what.

Speaker 2: 37:16

And I'm like okay, nevermind, you know what the kids in my family start at very young ages saying if you say so. And my niece, who's now 17,. I was like that's so funny. The triplets are saying if you say so, do I say that a lot? And she said, yeah, that's your, you always use that. Get out of conversations with kids when we would say things like you know, the moon might fall down. You'd just be like, okay, if you say so Apparently, that's yeah. Sometimes you just have to opt out of those conversations, otherwise it's going to be something you did not really want to spend an hour talking about.

Speaker 1: 37:53

No, definitely, it's so funny watching them grow and learn so fast. So I think, just teaching them basic. You know things about food, not about carbs and sugars and all that kind of stuff, but just understanding that you in not using real foods, but that foods get paired with stuff and you know to make, to make a meal, kind of thing. So I love that. And so before we get into, like, the last question, I want to preface it by saying it's not a tombstone, right? This is I, even though I say that some people still give me a tombstone answer and we have to do this again. So it is the legacy wall, right? So, on jessica's legacy wall, what would be the one lasting message that you would leave for up and coming generations that you learned along your life's journey or about nutrition? Whatever it may be? It could be short, long, but what would your one message be?

Speaker 2: 38:49

That's so hard because there's so many things. But what's coming to my mind right now is it's about not following the rules, because the rules are made up and I know maybe that sounds sort of anarchist, but I found that every time I've tried to sort of shrink myself or someone has told me you can't do that. It makes me feel so bad and then sometimes I just stop asking people what they think because I just want to do what I want to do. I started a workshop on my own. I started a private practice on my own.

Speaker 2: 39:29

My mom cried. She said I don't want you to have a miserable life. I mean, I feel like I painted the walls in my office my first office yellow and light blue, periwinkle blue, because I wanted it to be sunny and not look like a doctor's office. My uncle came in and I said look at my yellow wall. And he said oh, I'm sorry, like I mean, it's that kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 39:51

Who made the rules that you can't have yellow walls or that you can't be a single woman traveling to different states teaching a workshop that you made up?

Speaker 2: 39:59

So that would be sort of my legacy is don't be limited by rules that other people made. And oh my gosh, I can't believe this, but I just had this flashback. I don't know if anyone else did this, but when I was a teen, I'd cut out sayings from magazines and stick them to my wall, and one of them was for a jeans ad, and I don't remember what the jeans brand was or anything, but it said something like boundaries when other people set them, their limitations, when you set them their principles, something like that. And I realized, like that, having that on my wall and you're asking me what I would write on my wall I think that's something I would write on the wall is basically, don't let other people set your boundaries for you, because that's limitations. Set your own boundaries to stay safe, but do things, even if they've never been done before. The only reason they haven't been done is because you haven't done it yet.

Speaker 1: 40:52

I love that. That's awesome. Where can people connect with you at?

Speaker 2: 40:56

My umbrella website is JessicaSetnickcom. My umbrella website is jessicasetnickcom, and that's where you can find out how to bring me as a speaker to your group or to do consultations with me. Everything is really there somewhere. And then there's also a page called Free Resources, which is tons of articles I've written and podcast interviews and presentations I've given that anyone can access if they want to hear more.

Speaker 1: 41:25

Awesome. Well, guys, that will all be in the show notes. That'll also be if you're watching on YouTube in the video descriptions. But again, just I want to say thank you so much for taking the time out of your day. I love this conversation. Food is food is such a weird topic that people you know get sensitive around and stuff and it's like it's not bad, it's not, you know, good, it's not bad, it's not good, it's a tool, it's something that's just involved in your day, right? So thank you so much for coming on and really shaping the mindset of just nutrition.

Speaker 2: 41:49

Love it. So happy we got to talk. We'll definitely connect again soon. Facing the game of life, my set calls the shots, got my mind on the prize. I can't be distracted. I stay on my grind. No time to be flackin'. I hustle harder. I go against the current Cause. I know my mind is rich to be collected.