216. What If You Could Build Your Dream App Without Coding? w/ Guest: Dan Hafner

What if you could transform your business with a custom app without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars or learning to code? That's the revolutionary premise behind  Dan Hafner's work at Dapper NoCode, where he's helping entrepreneurs bring their digital visions to life.

Dan's journey is as unexpected as it is inspiring. Growing up on a Pennsylvania farm riding tractors and playing football, he was adamant about one thing: "I'm not gonna work in front of a computer." Fast forward through roles as a background investigator, quality assurance specialist, and sales professional, and Dan found himself drawn to the emerging world of no-code development after being quoted astronomical prices for his own app idea.

The conversation explores how no-code tools function as "digital Legos," allowing non-technical founders to stack pre-built components into custom applications. This democratization of technology puts powerful digital tools within reach for entrepreneurs who previously couldn't afford custom development. As Dan explains, "You can do it cheaper, you can do it faster, and you can still make it custom to what you need."

For business owners considering app development, Dan offers practical wisdom on validation and execution. He cautions against falling in love with your own ideas without market confirmation and suggests that finding similar solutions in the marketplace actually validates your concept rather than diminishes it. The discussion covers real-world applications ranging from streamlining operations for an animal chiropractor to enhancing customer loyalty for ice cream shops and gyms.

Perhaps most valuable is Dan's entrepreneurial philosophy: "Done is better than perfect" and success is "a game of inches." These principles, coupled with his technical expertise, provide a roadmap for anyone looking to innovate through technology without getting lost in pursuit of perfection. Ready to explore how a custom app might transform your business? This conversation might be your first step toward digital innovation.

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro to Mindset Cafe
• 1:04 Dan Hapner's Unique Background
• 6:31 Career Transitions and Entrepreneurial Mindset
• 13:41 No-Code App Development Explained
• 19:36 Validating App Ideas and Market Potential
• 29:11 Business Benefits of Custom Apps
• 36:25 Legacy Advice and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe. We all about that mindset. Gotta stay focused. Now go settle for the last. It's all in your head how you think you manifest. So get ready to rise, cause we about to be the best. Gotta switch it up. Gotta break the old habits. Get your mind right. Turn your dreams into habits. No negative vibes, only positive thoughts. What is up, guys?

Speaker 1: 0:21

Welcome to another episode of the Mindset Cafe podcast. It's your boy, devin, and today we are going to be diving into the world of app development the mindset of you know why business owners want to create apps and why we should be creating apps but also into business growth and digital innovation. This guest is a leader in the app development space. He's built apps and really he's an expert at building apps with no code. Essentially, he is the founder of Dapper no Code, where he helps entrepreneurs and small teams really transform their concepts into sleek, scalable apps. So, without further ado, I want to welcome Dan Hapner onto the show. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to hop on the Mindset Cafe.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Yeah, thanks for having me Dan Appreciate it. Man, you got a sick beat for an intro.

Speaker 1: 1:10

I love it, by the way. Awesome, thank you, thank you, thank you Appreciate it. So you know, let's dive in Before we get started into. You know the whole app and coding and all that kind of stuff I always like to start with. You know your background. Your bring up your childhood. You know what was that like.

Speaker 2: 1:24

Yeah, so, uh, I grew up in a little town in Pennsylvania here called Erie, pennsylvania, if anyone's ever heard of that little town South of there. So I grew up at like on a farm man, like it was. Uh, I've I've always been like in the woods, you know, doing hay, riding tractors, like that. That's how I grew up up. Like, doing stuff like that, um, played sports, played football. I.

Speaker 2: 1:47

It's so funny because I always remember saying people like what are you gonna do with your life? And I was like, well, I don't know, but I'm not gonna work in front of a computer. That's like, well, a little did I know, you know, that was like that's pretty much what 99 of people do, I guess, um, or a big chunk of people anyway. So, uh, yeah, it's kind of funny. But, um, yeah, that was like that's pretty much what 99% of people do, I guess, or a big chunk of people anyway. So, yeah, it's kind of funny. But yeah, that was kind of my upbringing man. Like I, just, you know, I grew up like just kind of I never really with an entrepreneurial mindset, just kind of like go hard, go, you know, go to work, you know, do sports, push yourself like, learn, do those kind of things.

Speaker 2: 2:26

And I think it all translated in the. You know, in the end, when I grew up and you know, got into my own career and stuff, but I never, never thought I'd go down this path at all.

Speaker 1: 2:35

No, I mean that's. It's interesting because you're from what it sounds like. Your childhood wasn't in anywhere really surrounding, somewhere that would be super tech driven, no, and so what did your parents do for work?

Speaker 2: 2:50

My mom was an accountant for a long time for a big company in Erie and then my dad was. He had one job his whole life. He worked at the same place for over 40 years. He was a maintenance supervisor. He just did like a bunch. He worked with his hands, you know, walked 10 miles a day, worked for a phone it's called. It's not even in Erie anymore. It was a foam manufacturing and production company. So he would like change molds and you know just kind of he was a. He had a dirty job, you know, for 40 some years. So, um, yeah, it was the first one in in my immediate family to even go to college.

Speaker 1: 3:31

Oh, wow, I mean you're at least, I mean not having an entrepreneurial background in terms of like your parents. I mean, neither did I, but something I could. I could say you probably got their work ethic, because I can attribute my work ethic to my dad, to my mom, right. Like, being an accountant is not a, you know, light job. You know, and working for the same job for 40 years shows you the dedication and, you know, commitment that he had to that, because you know that's an achievement in itself, right? So where did the coding experience for you come in then?

Speaker 2: 4:05

Well, it's funny I don't even have coding experience that's kind of the whole thing with no code, so it's kind of funny to hear people say that. But no, I I got a job out of college. I was a background investigator of all things. I was down in DC. It was actually through football that I got connected with the network of people that were like, hey, we have, we need opening, we have openings down here. Um, so I was.

Speaker 2: 4:29

That was a pretty cool job, honestly. I got to go to, like, the pentagon. I got to go to the state department, got to go to a lot of cool buildings in DC as like a 22 year old kid. That was pretty neat. Um, but then I was dating my now wife. She went to the same college I went to and she was down in medical school in Blacksburg, virginia, and I was in DC and just wanted to move to be close to her, start moving in, start doing the engagement thing, all that stuff. And I was able to be connected with someone who just was in a, in a. This is a customer support job. It was like, hey, you can come here, you can work for what it it was.

Speaker 2: 5:04

One of the big four firms was deloitte, so it was just basically doing you know anything tech related as far as, like, customer service goes, um, I was almost fired from that job to be on. To be very honest, like I, it was a few weeks in and I was like not getting it. I just couldn't, like people would call in and and say like hey, you know, I have this going on with my computer and this with my browser and I'd never, I'd never done anything like this stuff, you know. But I buckled down and I figured it out and I wasn't fired and I ended up being very good at it and then got promoted and that's how I got into, like I promoted into a quality assurance job where we actually tested and built web applications. So there was actually like the coders, the developers building the web apps and then I was testing them and that was my first exposure into the world of software and web applications and it was really cool.

Speaker 2: 5:56

And then that's kind of where my background came from and I actually I kind of had like an offshoot from there. I went into sales a little bit. I went into I did like a logistics, cold calling job. I worked for a big logistics company, I worked for an advertising company. So I like I got. I kind of went down that path and then I realized like I had this tech background, I had a little bit of sales background, and then that's where I kind of had this idea of like I heard about apps, I heard about software.

Speaker 1: 6:23

No code was very intriguing to me, and that's kind of how I got into just combining all my background experiences into doing this so something that's interesting with your background, too is it sounded like you were open-minded to try just different things, right from, you know, being a background investigator, diving into, you know, the, the tech world, and then going into sales, and it's like what was your mindset with these different pivots or transitions? Right, because working in logistics compared to sales, compared to tech, right, they're all completely different, it's you know. And so what was your mindset at the time when you did transition and being uncomfortable, stepping outside of something that you maybe know.

Speaker 2: 7:07

Yeah, well, I'll say part of it had to do with not having a choice sometimes, because so, with my wife being in the medical field, we had to move every three years or so because it was like medical school and then we moved somewhere for her residency and then we moved somewhere for her fellowship, but now we've moved for her job, so it's like it. That's kind of what drove me down this path was I knew I needed to kind of have my own thing, um, but at the time I remember gosh, I think I was in, I think it was in my back no, it wasn't my background investigator, it was, I think it was. I was at Deloitte. At some point I had been, um exposed to Rich Dad. Poor Dad, I think, is kind of where everyone kind of gets their start with this stuff. That led me down the path of a. I followed this guy who was into stock trading and real estate and passive income and he mentioned three books on this Twitter post and he said here's the three books that I like, and one of them was Dotcom Secrets and that kind of introduced me to russell brunson, this whole concept of funnels and, you know, making money online and doing this stuff and and I've kind of, you know, really never kind of seen the world since the same, the same way. So I've I was, you know, it was interesting to think about.

Speaker 2: 8:19

Like I, I think when I transitioned to sales, I was very excited about the opportunity for additional income, because every tech job I was ever in was like salary here's what you make off you go With sales it was exciting to be like wow, I could go in there and make five times what I could do and it's all based on my own. I control that effort. Like that's pretty amazing and I think that was that was also a part of it. But then I also knew that that was also an experienced builder for me, because I did have the longterm, you know, kind of idea in place.

Speaker 2: 8:59

I've always, and I think the further down the path I've gone, the more I realized I don't like taking direction, like I realized that about myself. I was like I kind of need to be my own thing because, you know, just being called in for meetings or being told, you know, performance reviews weren't good enough for like this and that that would really piss me off, like that would really like irk me, you know, and I was like all right, I need to, like I don't like taking direction, like I'd rather not have to do that.

Speaker 2: 9:26

And then I found out, you know, when you, when you run your own business, you still have bosses. They're called your clients, so you don't really get rid of a boss ever. But that was kind of my mindset around it, you know cause, again, part of it was just like we. I was forced to figure it out cause we were moving and I just couldn't keep that job.

Speaker 1: 9:55

And then you know, part of it was like I liked the idea of having experience, building additional income, building things, you know, for my background.

Speaker 1: 10:00

No, I mean that is super interesting. It's really cool to hear you say you know you did these things because you guys were following your wife, right, and that, being that adaptive, right, and being willing to put everything that you know, let's say you're trying to figure something out and it's starting to work, but you're like, look, you know we're in this together with you know, with your spouse. It shows a lot because, as an entrepreneur, you already know it's not easy to be married to an entrepreneur, right? You know, from the late, late nights to, you know, long days when, especially in that startup phase, and so you guys have already set this like relationship principle together that you guys are in this together. You know, and you guys adapt as you come, which I think is a huge thing, both in the medical field but also in the entrepreneurial space, because it's a big entrepreneur and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's all about adaptation.

Speaker 2: 10:55

Yes, yes it is. By the way, can you hear my dog barking in the background? Yeah, it's all good. Okay, one second. My wife's here, but she's not shutting up the dog.

Speaker 2: 11:08

So they're quiet all day and then they bark on a podcast. It's unbelievable. Okay, yeah, it's been very interesting because, yeah, the medical field is a tough place to be into. Like it's a yeah, it's, but it's been awesome that there's been flexibility, Like now we go on trips or something and I can work from wherever we go. So that's been always really cool. Like now we go on trips or something and I can work from where we go. So that's been always really cool. And then you know, just, it's a yeah, I wouldn't. If I could go back and change things, I probably wouldn't do it the same way, but it has, it has worked out. So you know we're, we're definitely blessed by that.

Speaker 1: 11:56

So I mean, I feel like every life experience and all the things you guys have overcame has helped establish the mindset and everything that you currently have, like going back and doing it differently. Who knows if you would have faced more obstacles starting earlier, or you know if even starting at all Right. So I feel like you know, some people look back and they're like, man, I wish I would have done this and it's like, yeah, but at the same time, maybe you wouldn't even seen this experience then, right.

Speaker 2: 12:23

Yeah, I think it's a, it's a figured out mentality. It's kind of. That's kind of one thing I've learned, you know I think sports taught me that too. It's just, it's like figured out, like it's nothing's ever guaranteed, nothing's ever perfect, ever Nothing's ever perfect. I think so many people just wait for. Well, when these conditions are going to be this way, then I'll go Like I just, I just I'm just waiting, and uh, and one thing I've learned is just you gotta go, man, you gotta, you gotta figure it out as you go. There's no other way, or you're going to waste so much time.

Speaker 1: 12:58

No, definitely, and figure it out as you go. There's no other way or you're gonna waste so much time. No, definitely. And realizing that that's like the biggest part, I think. I mean, my main business is a gym and we launched a franchise of it, and when people talk to you know me and masterminds and everything, they're always thinking about all these what-ifs and it's like look, you could write the perfect business plan, right, what you, what you think is the perfect business plan once you start. It's like, look, you could write the perfect business plan, right, what you think is the perfect business plan Once you start.

Speaker 1: 13:22

You figure it out as you go, right, all the plans and stuff that's just theoretical and hopes and dreams. But once you're in it, right, and even though you're in a different space, it still applies Like you don't know what you don't know, right. And so with that, I want to kind of dive into your experience in app development and everything, because I know, with your zero coding and low code, you know app development like what? What was that first step for you? Or that mindset shift where you're like you know what I'm going to get into this space, that I've had some, some introduction to being on the the review and testing side of it, but I think I could do this.

Speaker 2: 14:08

Yeah, it's funny you say you don't know what you don't know, because I didn't know anything about this. So I've, I've learned it like as I've gone. And so I was originally um, I think one of the when I was, I took another call center job for a while in West Virginia and I was, um, I kind of just had this idea that I wanted to have this app, and I was. I was a run, I was a big runner at the time not really anymore but um, I had just had this idea and I just wanted to build this and I knew that this was a good idea to build, and I didn't know how to code, I didn't have a lot of money, you know. So I would go out to agencies or online and I would put in a quote and I got people like telling me it was going to be 100 grand, 250 grand, to like build this thing. And I was like get out of here, what are you talking about? Then I tried to learn to code, you know, and that took me about two weeks to learn that that was not my cup of tea, that was not something that I was like. I was like, oh, more power to if you can do this, but, like I, this is not my thing.

Speaker 2: 15:06

So you know, I eventually found online like, hey, no code tools, build your app without coding, without a ton of money. And I was like, oh well, that solves both my problems. So that was interesting. So so then I ended up, I just ended up diving into it. I just figured it out, didn't know what. I didn't know I would go and try to build this thing. I would go to a different platform. I probably built it in about 20 different places before I found one that was like oh, this is the one that's going to launch. I launched it, put it together and it ended up succeeding. It was really awesome. I've since retired it, but that was what I realized.

Speaker 2: 15:36

To answer your question. I built. That was what I realized, like to answer your question. Like I built that skill and I realized I was like oh, maybe the opportunity isn't for me just in this one thing. Maybe it's like making money building this for other people, because at the time on my podcast, a lot of people I would share about what I was doing.

Speaker 2: 15:54

They'd be oh, that's curious, that's interesting, could you do this for me? Could you do that for me? And I was like was doing they'd be oh, that's curious, that's interesting, could you do this for me, could you do that for me? And I was like there's a market here, like like there's, there's some money to be made here, that's interesting. Um, so that's what I did and I just had started, had people messaging me, started, you know, sharing it online, and next thing, you know, I have a couple of clients and I'm like, okay, well, I need an llc, I need, like I, I need a payment thing, I need whatever. Like, okay, cool, let's do this. So that's what I ended up doing and it's been really, really fun and challenging and awesome and gut wrenching and all the different adjectives along the way.

Speaker 1: 16:32

No, definitely. I mean, sometimes you just you kind of fall into opportunity as long as you're in that opportunistic mindset, like you know, people are asking you because you, because you're sharing, you know what your, your story or how things are going for you, and sometimes opportunity just presents itself and if you're not in the right mindset you wouldn't acknowledge that opportunity. You'd be like, oh no, sorry, like I, you know, I just did this for me, right. And not realizing, hey, there, there is a market for this, like there there's a need, right. So that is so cool that you one had that mindset of being open to it and I think that's been formed from your being adaptable and moving around and all that kind of stuff. But for the non technical entrepreneur, can you explain? You know at a base level what no coding or low coding you know app development really is yeah. So you know at a base level what no coding or low coding you know app development really is yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:21

So you know one thing I see a lot with. You know, solopreneurs or small businesses is like you know, and this is what I've realized. You know, as you, as you're building a business, you start to build what's what you call like a tech stack. Like, okay, we have our website over here and we have our funnels over here and we have our email over here and you might do a text messaging thing. You might have whatever. That's what's called the text stack, right.

Speaker 2: 17:45

So a lot of times those can be very good tools and very good ways to just like hey, I need a calendar thing. Okay, great, get Calendly, move on with your life, right. Sometimes there's things you start to use them or you have an interesting enough or a different enough business. You're like there's not really a tool out there that really fits what I needed to do. I want to customize Calendly, I want to customize MailChimp, I want to do these different things the tool just doesn't allow me to do because I'm paying for it, it's their thing, it's whatever. So that was again, that's what I did with the running thing there. So that's, that was again that's what I did with the running thing. There was a lot of apps out there that kind of did what.

Speaker 2: 18:19

I wanted to do, but not quite Right. So now the next piece becomes well, OK, if I really need something custom, what does that involve? It involves hiring a dev team or learning to code it yourself, right, and those can be very expensive options, both in time and money, right, and you might not have time for that stuff. So what I've started to realize is like, what kind of business outcome are you looking for? What type of? If you are looking for, like a custom software solution, no, code is a very, very good solution to that problem that you have, because you can do it cheaper, you can do it faster and you can still make it custom to what you need. And that's amazing. Like that's a that gives you so many options, so much flexibility to do something. That's like oh, wow, now we actually have something that's custom and that works and that is actually it didn't break our bank, you know it's. It's kind of incredible. So so when we talk about like no code or low code, there's still. There's still code underneath, right, like it's, it's always going to be based on that, but what you're doing is you're interfacing with it in ways that you're not having to code, right.

Speaker 2: 19:34

Like a lot of people. I always say like. A lot of people have built their own website using like Wix or WordPress or GoDaddy or something like that. It's very similar. It's a visual way of building and constructing things without having to code. So a lot of it's drag and drop, it's pre-built templates, it's just customizing the colors and the fonts and the layouts a little bit like this and Like cause. That saves so much time, so much money and you still end up with something custom. So that's that's really how I like to explain that it's. It's it's like Legos kind of. It's like kind of stacking them on top of each other and building it in a certain way. Um, and I, I love Legos as a kid, so I'm not surprised that I still like them.

Speaker 1: 20:19

No, I mean it does make so much sense. I mean I've built websites on Wix and on you know what's called WordPress, everything like that, and there is definitely still that code to get those drag and drops and everything like that but it makes it more user friendly. So the non tech savvy person could essentially do it right and obviously if you have more of a tech side or technology to you, you can customize even further than that right, 100%, 100%. So you probably hear app ideas every day. Now how do you spot the ones that have real potential versus the ones that just probably aren't going to succeed? Oh, that's a good question.

Speaker 2: 20:59

That is a good question. You know, I think it's pretty easy for me to tell when someone comes to you with like a half baked idea of like oh, this, this is, this is cool, and then it's like all right. Well, you know, maybe I don't know, but I think, um, I think one of the one of the interesting things that I've like people talk about their superpower a lot Like I see, like one of the superpowers that I think I've developed over time. I don't think I was born with it, but like I can look at pretty much any, any process or any system or any Excel spreadsheet that you might have and be like okay, I know how this can translate into software like almost instantly. Like that's just something. I have thousands of reps of doing that. So just because it all can be doesn't mean that it's going to be like the winner, right.

Speaker 2: 21:54

And you know, when you talk about that, like there's different types of things. Maybe you're, maybe you are trying to build the next go viral TikTok-esque type of social media thing, right? Or maybe you're just trying to build an internal tool for just you, or just you and your assistant, to use and make your life a little easier. That's not really going to be the next big success story of the world, of the tech world, but it still solves a problem for you. So there's like different things, right? So in terms of the latter, like an internal tool or a small SaaS product that you're just trying to build, I can pretty much build that out of anything Like those are really things. If you describe requirements, we can kind of figure that out together. Now, the other ones that you're talking about like going viral, you know, getting users building a business around you got to think like, is there a real need for this in the market right now? Like, is there, is this a? Is this a relevant thing? Is this going to just be something that's maybe like is it maybe stale? Is it outdated, is it? But at the same time, is it too far thinking? Is it too future paced?

Speaker 2: 22:57

Because you know, if you look into a market like, a lot of people will say, well, what other tools are there like this out there? And it's like, well, if there are some, you know you say like, hey, I want to build this cool gym tool for my franchise or whatever. And then you say, well, what other tools are out there? And you find like 20 other tools. That can be very discouraging because you're like oh, I thought this was a good idea, but there's clearly other people doing it. But that's also a good thing because it proves that there's a market and it proves that there's traction and people actually buy this thing and pay you money. That's an actual good sign. And the other thing is okay.

Speaker 2: 23:35

Now you go and say, hey, is there any tools out there for this? And there's like zero. Other thing is okay. Now you go and say, hey, is there any tools out there for this? And there's like zero. Okay, there is probably a reason for that because there's probably not a market's too blue of an ocean to go back to Russell Brunson speak, but it can also be a very, very good opportunity at the same time. So there's a balance. There's a balance you kind of have to figure out there, but there's nothing that beats just real validation. Real people like asking real people putting a website out there, getting opt-ins, whatever of like hey, here's this cool idea we have. Would you potentially want this? And seeing what actual people say, you'd be surprised how many people are scared to do that.

Speaker 1: 24:16

No, I mean. So then, what would be like the first first thing someone should consider, like you know, with, before investing the time and for investing, you know money into building an app, right, what would be some things to consider when they're doing that research or doing that thought process?

Speaker 2: 24:36

Yeah, Do I have the time to figure this out? If I mean, this is a very good like flow chart you could build, like, do I have the time, yes or no, or whatever you know. So I think, do you have the time? Do you? Do you have the real need for it? Or does someone else have the real need for it? And then you know how, how complex am I willing to go with this thing? You know, because that's another big trap that people fall into in the software world.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Something I didn't know, that I didn't know is you can, you could spend years building something and spend $250,000, a million dollars building something and still end up with something that's not usable or or even validated, and then you wasted a ton of money, right? So you know, is there a real market need? Do you have the time to put into something like this? And then is there, you know, a relative path to a clear outcome and a clear win with whatever you're trying to do, whether it's internal, external, saas product, whatever. I would say. Those are probably just the very, very 50,000 foot view questions to start asking.

Speaker 1: 25:49

So with that I mean now you ask the questions, you found something and you're like you know what. I think this could be it. What are some red flags that might indicate an app might not be worth pursuing?

Speaker 2: 26:05

Interesting. I think some red flags would be again, like I mentioned before, if there's nothing else out there on the market that's even remotely close to what you're talking about or thinking about, um, I'd say that's, more often than not, a red flag. You know, like I think there was nothing like chachapiti out there, for example. You know so. That's a case study of something that would be okay.

Speaker 2: 26:33

This is a completely new thing, um, but it's overcome with the power of how awesome it actually was. You know so, but more often than not, like I mean, a lot of people don't have the backing of, you know, $10 billion from Microsoft and like all kinds of other things to go on, so you can do a lot with that kind of stuff too. Know, I think another, another red flag as well is being stuck in your mind of I am in love with this idea. I think that this is the greatest idea and it's it just makes total sense that everyone in the world would want to use this. Like it's just, it's just perfect. There's nothing wrong with it. That's a huge red flag.

Speaker 1: 27:21

I've done that. Yeah, it makes sense.

Speaker 2: 27:24

Because you can think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. But if no one else does, it doesn't matter. Like it doesn't, you're not going to be. The whole idea in terms of putting an app out into the market is what I'm saying. Like it doesn't matter. If you think it's a great idea, it's. Does the market validate it? Does the market need something like this and want to do something like this? Because people fall in love with their ideas very, very quickly.

Speaker 1: 27:55

No, definitely, and so I mean it is, it is so. It is so interesting because, like this whole mindset of of having an app and you know almost for a company as well, like of having an app and you know almost for a company as well, like it, it almost gives you a little bit of this weird authority to say you have an app right, um, and I know because we have, like, we have a meal plan app right and it was, uh, it's a, a white labeled app. But like, people find out we have an app and they're like, oh, my goodness, like all of a sudden they put you on this pedestal in terms of branding compared to a competitor that doesn't have an app. So I would say, what kind of businesses would benefit most, in your opinion, from having an app, versus, maybe, ones that maybe don't need one necessarily? Does that make sense?

Speaker 2: 28:48

Yeah, and it's a very broad thing. But if you are, I mean, when I first started out, we worked exclusively with coaches and content creators. It was people who had just all kinds of memberships and communities. It was kind of the precursor to school, you know, of like hey, put all your content and your stuff in one place. That's a great use case for it. That's just one thing you know. And then, in terms of apps specifically, yeah, like restaurants, you know, like you said, gyms, a lot of like local types of businesses can really benefit from it, and we actually just got done launching one for an ice cream shop. So we're starting to kind of roll out this new offer for ice cream shops.

Speaker 2: 29:41

I mean, even think about like financial advisors, you know, you know people like that that just work individually with people for maybe a high ticket price but also can make commission on things. I mean, think about how how much differentiation you have as someone who's like hey, we have this, we're going to onboard you. You download our app. It has everything in there for you. It's like, it's like a white glove service, you know. It's like it was. It's different than just saying, hey, go on our website and fill out this jot form that does this and does that and whatever like that, that can be cool. But you know what, if there was something that was just like completely handled everything and like all of your stuff is right there, like that's such a differentiator, right? So, um, I say any business usually, but obviously there's. You know, that's a very, very broad answer to a broad question.

Speaker 2: 30:36

But you know, if you're looking to streamline things, like one thing we actually did, um, for a client, uh, not long ago was modernize something. Right, like there was a she's an animal chiropractor who works with vets and different clients and they had this outdated texting and even faxing process of trying to coordinate. Like hey, am I allowed to do this to this animal and do that and get the vet's approval and all these other things. And we built a streamlined process inside of one app. So there's a her view, there's a client view, there's a vet view, that everyone's on the same page all the time. So even some it's like it's thinking outside the box. I talked about this on one of my recent podcast episodes of just thinking outside of the box, of oh, I need, I need an app for this or I need a software for this or like this could be a digitized process. You know, and there's so many, so many things. We could be here all day talking about all of them, you know.

Speaker 1: 31:36

No, honestly, that's the interesting part about it. It's like if you open up your mind to the potential or possibilities that you could do, right, because I mean, some of the things that you've emphasized, I mean, in previous stuff is you can use it for marketing, you could use it for lead generation, you could use it for increasing customer retention and engagement, right. So it really comes down to you know what you're looking for, and even for us as a gym, like a lot of our things are to try to increase engagement and retention, but at the end of the day, it does act as a marketing tool or a lead generation tool to try to move something down the pipeline you know of, you know kind of going back to Russell Brunson's, you know staircase and you know theory and kind of funnels and stuff like that, right? So what, what would you say to what kind of app or or app engagement really increases retention?

Speaker 2: 32:31

Um, well, you know, there there's a old stat. I'd have to look up what the newest numbers are. But you know they say, uh, like text messaging and emails, like what, what are the open rates? What are the click through rates, right? Um, there was a stat I, I I don't have the latest numbers that I should.

Speaker 2: 32:47

I apologize, I'm making myself look bad here, but push notifications right. When you get those push notifications on your phone, there was I think there was like an 85 or 90% open rate, even like a couple of years ago, especially from something that is like we just joined a group through our church, right, and they communicate through signal is the app that they use. When I see that the only group I have on there, and when I see a notification that somebody messaged that, or like whatsapp or whatever, I click on that, like I'm going to open that, like I'm interested, like what's what's going on, right. So it's different when you have like facebook, instagram, like when you get tons of notifications through things or whatever. But those are really really cool ways, right. And then that comes back to the marketing hook story offer of how are we, what are we doing to hook? What's the story we're telling. Is it new content? We're putting out a new offer, we're putting out a limited time thing again, creativity, but then driving people to sign a page, a free trial page, a special offer page, a yoga class sign up, whatever the case might be those are really, really cool ways to do that.

Speaker 2: 34:02

I mean even think I love to use the McDonald's app as an example. I mean even think I love to, I love to use the McDonald's app as an example. Right, you hear commercials all the time of hey, you know, download our app and get a free fry or get a, get a 50% discount on whatever. Like that's something that people can use to drive. Again, retention, additional sales, things like that Exclusive only content, exclusive only deals inside of this members area, this app, this whatever. So, use your imagination for how you could implement something like that. That's a very, very awesome thing. When I hear all those commercials, I'm like, oh, that's genius that's so genius.

Speaker 1: 34:43

No, it is. That is so genius. I mean, I used Chipotle as the reference of why we have a rewards, uh, software and everything like that, because I go to chipotle and every time you the app push notification you write does show up and I'm like, oh yeah, I have points, you know, and so we have that at the gym as well, because I was like you know, it works at chipotle, it works at starbucks, it works at, you know, like you said, mcdonald's. Obviously there's a reason why all these big companies are doing it. You know it'll work for the gym and, honestly, it has helped a lot, right?

Speaker 1: 35:10

So that engagement and that retention it does really come from, you know, innovation, essentially, and being open to that innovation. So before we wrap up, I like to ask one question, right, and this question is a legacy wall question, right, right? So on Dan's legacy wall, it's and again, it's not a tombstone I have to say that because some people give me tombstone answers on this legacy wall, what is the one piece of advice that you would leave for the up and coming generations that you've learned along your life's journey?

Speaker 1: 35:46

That is a good one.

Speaker 2: 35:51

You know I could probably say a lot of things. Can I give you a couple? Yeah, okay, I think one thing I've learned inside of being what I do and inside of no code and just being in business in general um, done is better than perfect. I think. I think that's worth that. Like that's the first thing that came to my mind that popped into my head when you said that. So I think that that's. That says something about that. But you know, done is better than perfect. Um, because the world is moving so fast anymore, because the world is moving so fast anymore, you have to move fast, you have to execute. There's no such thing as a million-dollar idea, there's only million-dollar execution. I think Billie Jean said that. I love that quote Done is better than perfect. But I will add another thing, which I actually have a quote up here on my wall. I guess you could call it my actual legacy wall, I call it my motivation wall.

Speaker 2: 36:56

But I love the speech from Any Given Sunday Game of Inches. Life is a game of inches. I've watched that speech I don't know probably once a week. I freaking love it. I cannot get enough of it. You know, in life and football it's a game of inches and I think business can be a game of inches too Like there can be. There can be opportunities everywhere. The inches you need are everywhere around you. You know the opportunities that you need, the customers that you need, the, the, the success that you're looking for is everywhere around you. It's just are you going to be willing to crawl inch by inch to to, to find it, to get it? You know, um, I, I love, I love that quote. I just had to throw that extra one in there for you. I hope, hope you appreciated it.

Speaker 1: 37:47

But yeah, those would be my two it doesn't matter if it stays in your head. The only thing that matters is the actions that you take or the inactions that you don't take, right, so I love that. And then it is true, it is about inches. It's not about these huge leaps, right, it's, sometimes it's small increments, so I love both of those. Where can people connect with you at?

Speaker 2: 38:21

Yeah, so I love to have people come and listen to my podcast as well. It's called Tech Bytes B-Y-T-E-S. I'm actually going through a series called the no Code Advantage right now which I think people, if you appreciated this episode, you'll get a lot out of those. It's like a 10-episode series I'm putting through. I'm about halfway through it right now, so you can definitely check that out anywhere you get your podcasts. And then I'm also, you know, DapperNoCodecom is our site where we have all our different portfolios and services and calculators and all kinds of cool stuff over there.

Speaker 1: 39:00

So. So, guys, that all that will be in the show notes. If you watch it on YouTube, it'll be in the video description. Make sure you guys share this episode with a friend you never know who. What friend has a cool you know app idea in their head and they might bring you along because you showed them this episode. So, you know, here's your, here's your one inch that might, uh might, help progress you. So, dan, I want to say you know, thank you so much again for taking the time out of your day. You know it was awesome. I learned a lot as well, and definitely going to be checking out the website and everything and see how we can integrate our stuff a little bit better and maybe even just make a singular app to kind of consolidate everything. So, again, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day. Thank you, I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 39:42

No negative vibes, only positive thoughts. Fist in the game. Life mindset causes shites. Got my mind on the prize. I can't be distracted. I stay on my grind. No time to be slackin'. I hustle harder. I go against the current Cause. I know my mind is rich to be collected.