233. Your Mindset Matters: How Catalytic Leaders Avoid Burnout w/ Dr. William Attaway

Dr. William Attaway shares his transformative journey from attending his first leadership conference at age 15 to becoming an executive coach who helps high-performing leaders across six continents avoid burnout. He reveals how true leadership creates ripples that extend far beyond the leader, impacting families, teams, clients, and communities.

• Leadership begins with mindset—90% of success or failure in leadership happens between your ears
• Servant leadership is the only true form of leadership—focusing on those you serve rather than yourself
• Great leaders are pushed into leadership positions rather than seeking titles for status
• A teachable spirit is the one non-negotiable trait of catalytic leadership
• If team members can perform a task at 80% of your capability, you should delegate it
• Leaders should delegate not just tasks but authority and decision-making power
• Clear-minded focus, calm control, and confidence are the three stages to becoming a high-performing leader
• Burnout happens when leaders fail to delegate and place unrealistic expectations on themselves and their teams
• Information alone never leads to transformation—information plus execution creates transformation
• You get to choose how you respond to circumstances and the legacy you want to leave

Connect with Dr. William Attaway on LinkedIn or visit catalyticleadership.net to learn more about his coaching programs and join his free Facebook group.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Dr. William Attaway
• 7:03 The Power of Servant Leadership
• 13:21 Finding Leadership Inspiration
• 19:05 The One Non-Negotiable for Leaders
• 26:19 Delegation: The Key to Avoiding Burnout
• 34:20 Clear-Minded Focus and Confidence
• 39:05 Choose Your Legacy

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe. We all about that mindset. Gotta stay focused. Now go settle for the last. It's all in your head how you think you manifest. So get ready to rise, cause we about to be the best. Gotta switch it up. Gotta break the old habits. Get your mind right. Turn your dreams into habits. No negative vibes, only positive thoughts.

Speaker 1: 0:20

What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of the Mindset Cafe podcast. It's your boyvin, and today we have a special guest. We have Dr William Attaway. He is a bestselling author, an executive coach speaker and the founder of the Catalyst Catalytic Leadership podcast and program, and I'm lucky enough to be on his podcast coming up soon too, so we're going to be able to run it back. So make sure you guys check that episode out when his does drop as well.

Speaker 1: 0:50

But with nearly 30 years of hands-on experience in leadership, dr William has coached hundreds of high-performing agency owners, executives, entrepreneurs across six continents, which is amazing and would definitely dive into some of that stuff. But with being a leader, we know that there's a lot of things that kind of come with it right. There's a lot of stress, a lot of things that start to come with those things. So you know, dr William has really focused on, you know, helping those people not burn out, not, you know, getting in this state of confusion or stagnation, because that does happen as a business owner and, honestly, just in life, right, so, without further ado, you know, dr William, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day.

Speaker 2: 1:34

Devin, thanks so much for having me. Man, it's an honor to be on the show.

Speaker 1: 1:37

I'm excited. So I mean let's rewind and talk about you know your bring up, you know your childhood to you, know where you are today.

Speaker 2: 1:47

Like what was that path? Like you know, I grew up in outside Birmingham, alabama and a typical childhood in a lot of ways, but there were always the challenges and the obstacles. You know my parents separated and then ultimately got divorced, you know, when I was a teenager, and that creates instability, that creates challenges around the family dynamic, and anybody who's been in that environment knows what I'm talking about. It was around that same season that I had a teacher who saw something in me that I did not see in myself, and at 15 years old he invited me to attend my first leadership conference. I had no real interest in the subject. I thought, well, I'll go check it out.

Speaker 2: 2:30

And I went and I listened and I was hooked by the power of leadership and the impact that a great leader can make and the danger of not leading well and the ripples of what that can cause. And now, for nearly 40 years I have been a student of leadership and for 30 now a practitioner of it, working with teams myself, leading organizations, leading teams, companies, and then coaching other leaders, helping them to lead effectively. To understand that it all begins between your ears. It begins with your mindset. That's 90% of your success or your failure in leadership 100%, you know, and so I want to.

Speaker 1: 3:15

I want to dive into something you just said too, because I think it is so important. And the reason I think it's so important is because everyone idolizes being the leader. Right, you know being the CEO, being the, you know the top person, you know the team captain, whatever the case may be, but, like you said, a great leader can have a huge impact and can do amazing things, but also a bad leader could also have a huge impact, and do you know crazy things. So what? What is that difference? When you notice, I mean, when you were at that conference, or what you've learned throughout your years of studying leadership, what is that separation, and can you dive into that subject a little bit more of the deviation of the two?

Speaker 2: 4:01

I think about it in terms of of water. You know, you think about a lake and you think about it in terms of water. You think about a lake and you think about taking a rock and not chunk the rock into the middle of that lake. What's going to happen? It's going to ripple. The water is going to respond exactly proportionate to the velocity of my throw and the size of the rock and those ripples are going to move and they're going to stretch and they're going to touch things that are far away from that rock, that the rock did not touch.

Speaker 2: 4:30

That's leadership. The ripples of leadership stretch and move far beyond the actual leader. This is why I have chosen to work with and to pour into and invest in leaders, Because when you impact a leader and you help them move from, in some cases, mediocrity or worse to great leadership, to excellence, you're not just affecting one person, because the ripples go so far and they touch so many other people their immediate family, their team, the rest of the company, their clients, every client they're ever going to serve, every company they're ever going to work for all from impacting that one leader. That's the power of leadership. That can be for good or it can be not. A lot of leaders lead for selfish reasons. They lead because they want to build themselves up, build their brand, build their kingdom, if you will. It's all about them and the ripples from that stretch just as far.

Speaker 1: 5:31

So what makes a good leader and what makes a bad leader?

Speaker 2: 5:35

I believe great leadership starts with a servant's heart. I believe servant leadership is leadership. I'm not sure you can call anything other than servant leadership leadership. Honestly, I heard Patrick Lencioni say this years ago. He said we talk about servant leadership like there's really any other kind. I think you have to use a different word. I think servant leadership is focused on the people that we are serving. We get to serve as a leader. We get to pour into and impact other people. We get to help them grow and achieve their goals in the pursuit of the goals of the company or the team. That's what you need to do as a leader. Your job is no longer to be the individual contributor. Your job is not to get things done. Your job is to get things done through other people, and the way you do that best is by seeing how can I help you, how can I pour into you in such a way to maximize your impact.

Speaker 1: 6:34

So what makes a bad leader?

Speaker 2: 6:36

One that's all about themselves, one that is more concerned with their headlines and their highlight reel than anyone else on the team, their headlines and their highlight reel than anyone else on the team Someone?

Speaker 1: 6:51

who is fine if they win, even if that means everybody else doesn't. I think that that's huge, because I mean the way I kind of view it too is like, like you said, the servant leader, right, I mean that's how you, that's how a great leader is and should be. But also that I mean that's how a great leader is and should be. But also I mean those kind of leaders don't necessarily call themselves leaders right Out the gate, like they're the ones that kind of get pushed to be team captain, right, and obviously if you open a business, you are the leader by default. But you got to realize that my job, even with my gym, my franchise, like my main job, is how can I help you? Like, so my team comes, they present a problem, my, my job is to solve the problem, that's all and all it is.

Speaker 1: 7:36

And that's where people also don't realize they see that the title, they see the leadership, all those kinds of things. They're like oh, that's I want to be that. And it's like you also got to realize that it comes with a very heavy weight and that is the stress, the, the worry of burnout, you know the all those other things, because when things go wrong, a great leader realizes it's their fault. That's right, right. When things go, when things go right, they realize it's the team doing well, that's exactly it, right, that's exactly it.

Speaker 1: 8:11

You know and that's that's the biggest thing for me is like I learned. I mean, I've always thought that but never really understood or been able to explain it until I read I think it was Jocko Willings the dichotomy of leadership, and it's so true, and I think that any leader that leads from the back, that's not a leader. You're a dictator, right, and it's like no one wants to work for that. Everyone remembers that one boss that they had, that they're like I'll never be that person Right, so don't don't be that person Right. So I mean what? What really inspired you from that conference? Cause obviously that sounded, or that you know that seminar cause I mean that sounded like it. It kind of set a pivot in your, your journey, or whatever your journey could have been. What was that light bulb at that conference for you?

Speaker 2: 8:58

I think it was. It was, it was truly a catalytic moment in in my life, because it was at that moment that I realized the power of an individual to impact far beyond themselves. You know, you think about. It was actually at Valley Forge. Pennsylvania is where the conference was. So you think about what happened at Valley Forge. You think about what George Washington accomplished there.

Speaker 2: 9:23

Right, you look at that, and when they came to Valley Forge, they were not coming off of a victory. They were not coming off of. You know, hey, things are riding high, we've got all the resources we need, we're hitting every KPI and objective. None of that, everything was going south. How did he lead? In circumstances not of his choosing? How did he lead in moments of crisis? And and I think it was in in that context, in that setting, that that really became real to me for the first time that I understood that leadership is not about the title, it's not about the perks, it's not about the trappings. It's about that. It's about leading in adversity, leading through crisis, knowing that there's another side to it.

Speaker 1: 10:14

No, definitely not a lie. I don't know what the value of forges, but as you started explaining it, I was like, oh, I think I think I know where we're going with this. But as you started explaining it, I was like, oh, I think I know where we're going with this. But, honestly, everything that you said though it does resonate with things that I've experienced and I know other leaders have Because when things are especially, we'll say, with business, when things are going rough, it's like you can start to shift the blame. And the one thing in my company is I don't accept excuses. Right, the reason I don't accept excuses is because that means you haven't taken responsibility for the mistake. I accept mistakes all day long, but you need to own your mistake so that we can learn from it. Right, because, believe me, I make probably the most amount of mistakes. Right, and it's like you made the mistake. Now what, right? You can't just sit and have a say. Now, you need to find the solution. What is the solution? Right?

Speaker 1: 11:11

So, even for our team, though what you're saying, it kind of made me think about even how we have a hierarchy, essentially like owner manager, assistant manager, trainers, so forth. But I also teach them. And even when I'm on the floor, no one knows I'm the owner, unless obviously directly asked or one of my trainers tells someone that I'm the owner. Otherwise, when someone comes in on their first day, I say you know, hey, we got two, uh two trainers on the floor. It's myself and so and so for the day, like so they associate with me just being one of the trainers, right? Because otherwise, immediately the members come to whoever the higher person is, versus valuing the other trainer's advice and so forth. So that is a requirement from our staff as well to do so. So I think that's one of the things too. Like you're here to serve the members, you're here to serve the team, it's like no one needs to know you're the manager. What does that do for anyone, right?

Speaker 2: 12:09

Well, yes, and that humility that you're exhibiting there, I think, is key to servant leadership. You can't be focused on somebody else if you're focused on yourself, if you want to make sure everybody knows who you are and everybody can come and they can, they can, they can, you know, pay the appropriate homage, you know, oh yeah, oh wow, you know. Kiss the ring, so to speak. If you're more concerned with that, then you can't be focused on your team in the way that you're describing, so that they will win.

Speaker 1: 12:37

Yeah no, exactly. So I mean, and that's, and that's the whole thing too, is like I mean you, you kind of see who the leaders are when people start going to them, to for the, you know, for the, for the like, if one of my trainers is coming up to me asking questions and going back to a member to give it, like they, by by proxy, kind of see that I'm the leader on the floor. They don't necessarily know maybe I'm the owner, but they know that there is some sort of system at you know, behind the scenes, uh, but what is? Can you explain what the catalytic you know leadership is? How was that created?

Speaker 2: 13:16

it actually comes out of a little bit of my story a little further on. Uh, when I went to college, I went as a pre-pharmacy major. I thought I had worked in a pharmacy my senior year of high school and thought this is a great way to invest in other people, you know, to serve others. And so I went as a pre-pharmacy major. I got to my second year and hit organic chemistry. Organic chemistry is designed as the washout point right when they're going to wash out the people who don't need to be in this program. And it works. It washed me right out. I hated it. I was like this is not what I want to spend the rest of my life doing.

Speaker 2: 13:52

But in my brief chemistry studies, I discovered the power of what's called a catalyst. A catalyst is something that you introduce into a mixture in order to incite or to accelerate significant change or action. And as I thought about that, I had been a student of leadership for a number of years at that point and I thought, wow, every great leader that I have ever studied or met or learned from would resonate with that. They're all about significant change or action and they're all about inciting that. What does it look like for leadership to be catalytic, and that's what I've been researching and studying and writing about and speaking about for about 30 years now.

Speaker 1: 14:36

So how does someone start to? I guess not acquire, but start to yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:49

It starts with your mindset and this is a choice that you get to make. The one non-negotiable essay of catalytic leadership is a teachable spirit. It's one non-negotiable. Yeah, you can have everything else I talk about and not have that, and you're not going to be catalytic. A teachable spirit is a choice. It is a decision that I make every day, devin, I decide every morning I want to be the most teachable person in every room I walk into today. I want to be the most teachable person in every meeting I'm in. I want to listen more than I speak. I want to learn from the people around me.

Speaker 2: 15:24

Now, sometimes you might learn what not to do. That's okay, that could be valuable, but I want to maintain that teachable spirit, that teachable posture, in every environment I'm going to go into. Am I perfect at it? No, but that's the goal, that's the center of the bullseye. Starting with that, that deliberate choice, is where catalytic leadership begins, because that humility and that determination every day, that that's going to be the posture of my mindset. That is where you begin as a learner, and if you walk in as a learner, you'll be surprised how much you learn and how much influence you have with the other people in the room.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Oh, definitely. I mean, I think that you have to have that sense of humility to realize you don't know what you don't know, right.

Speaker 1: 16:18

And you don't need to like to be a leader or to be a business owner, like you don't have to know all of the answers, right, but you do have to know that if you don't know the answer, you either have to find it out yourself or you need to go ask someone that has already overcame that, right. And so that's where I think that you know a coach or an advisor or a mentor does really play into that, because I mean, even when we launched our franchise, you know, opening up a business, you know, was already a venture that you know kind of had to learn as we went. But then franchising was a whole new space. So I hired a franchise you know mentor that had launched his own franchise. Right, I didn't care about you know certifications and you know it's like I could read a book too. I want someone that is doing it or has done it.

Speaker 1: 17:11

And so it just so happened that my mentor had launched one in the fitness space as well in the eighties and nineties, but I was like he grew to 400 locations. Obviously, he's going to be able to help me condense my timeline to success and I'm willing to let him know I don't know these things right and and go into it with a learning mindset, right. So I think that is a huge aspect of it. Now what I will like, I want to give your opinion on this, because I think that there's this information overload, but implementation under load right and and so and so how how does that really play into? Like being a Cadillac, you know, catalytic sorry, cadillac, catalytic leader, you know, that is able to have these exponential growths. You know, because we can learn new things and learn the dichotomy of leadership, and learn all these things, but if you're not implementing them right, you're not really going to have that growth 100%.

Speaker 2: 18:07

One of the key traits of a catalytic leader is that you have a bias for action. Okay, information is great. I'm constantly taking in information. Right, I love to read. Obviously, you can see, I love to read, I love to listen to podcasts. I'm constantly learning and growing through conversations that I have, conferences, whatnot? Information I'm constantly taking in, but information alone never leads to transformation. Information plus execution leads to transformation, and that's what you're describing. And so the key thing that I work with clients on is okay, your problem most often is not you lack information. Your problem most often is you're not doing anything with it. It's time to stand up and get moving. It's time to execute, and this is this is a key trait If you want to be catalytic as a leader.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Definitely. I mean, I remember it's funny like I had a client that showed up when I was testing the model out at the park. Before you know, we opened our facility and she said you know, well, isn't it enough? I showed up and I was like, and sometimes I can, I can come back with some, some stuff pretty quick, and it just I, right away. I was like you could go to the library and not read, you know. And then she was just like I, right away. I was like you could go to the library and not read, you know. And then she was just like, oh man, and so she started doing her workout. But it's same thing, it's like you could. I could give you the answers, like for the franchisees, I can give you the blueprint, I can do everything, send you all information, but if you don't pick up the phone, make the call or, you know, open the doors, the business isn't going to be successful. That's exactly right.

Speaker 2: 19:43

You got to move, you got to take action.

Speaker 1: 19:47

And that's the scariest piece, because everything like, let's say, all my successes I'm telling you exactly how to do it. For you it's a theory, right, it's not like it's my reality, but it's your theory right, and until you take action on it, it will always be a theory. You need to test it out, you need to try it, you need to do it for it to become a reality. Otherwise it will always just be this, this thought process or this system you know. So I think that is the huge piece that you know that I love that you kind of, you know, described in that where has your coaching kind of led you? I know, you know you've gone across continents and stuff like that. Like how, what was that journey like?

Speaker 2: 20:31

You know it's. It's interesting because the the the first question that that I think I had at the beginning was I understand how to lead in different contexts, and I've worked with leaders, you know, with leaders from GovCon space to educational space, from nonprofits to Fortune 500 companies, but that's in the States. Is that going to work outside of North America? And so, as I began to work with clients around the world, what I discovered is that leadership principles are leadership principles. It does not matter the culture. It does not matter the culture, it does not matter the context. The principles are transferable. Now, you've got to contextualize them a little bit, to be sure, but the principles hold. And there's not one of the catalytic leadership principles that I talk about in my last book. That doesn't hold, no matter where the person is. And I've tested this, I've tried to, I've tried to find the holes in it. But the reality is, those principles are, they work on all six continents.

Speaker 1: 21:35

I mean at the end of the day, I think that you know, people are people, right, that's exactly right.

Speaker 1: 21:40

I mean, there are obviously different cultures and so so forth, but at the same time people are people meaning that leadership is leadership. Right, that's right. So I, and that's that's where I think those, that those concepts and and everything really hold, because, at the end, just like sales is sales, you know, customer service is customer service, like it's a principle in that, in a skill in that nature. So I think that's it. It does make a ton of sense. I think my, my worry about, you know, going different across different continents would be that cultural factor. But again, when you kind of factored that in, maybe a little bit if needed, but the end of the day you're talking about something that doesn't really necessarily have a cultural tie, right.

Speaker 2: 22:20

Right, it's important to to know illustrations that fit your audience when you're speaking. It's important not to assume that everybody is like you, and I think that's one danger that happens when we go other places. We just make that assumption. Well careful, it's good to know who you're talking to so you can contextualize and communicate to them, not to who you think they should be.

Speaker 1: 22:47

Yeah, and I'll say I want to add on to what you said. Like you know, not to make sure that they're not, you don't think that they're like you like even in the States, and like there's two, two aspects to this. Like I've been, you know, to a few different States with, you know, traveling for business and so forth, being from Los Angeles, it is very fast-paced, Everything is fast-paced. I remember I went to Montana, beautiful, love the state. I remember we flew in and it was me and one of the other guys from this mastermind. We're at this restaurant and the waitress is it's almost like it was out of a movie, like talking with each table but like not just like hey, do you need anything? It was like full on conversations and I was like man, like I was like we got to go, like you know, and realizing, like the lifestyle, everything was just a little bit different and it was like wow, like it was almost like a, not a cultural shock, but kind of a cultural shock in you know, in the same regard.

Speaker 1: 23:47

But then also being a business owner, like realizing that your team isn't you, like you can't hold them to the same standards that you hold yourself, because it is your baby. It is your business. They're never going to work as hard as you, going to work as hard as you. So you have to also take that with a grain of salt and realize that they're trying to strive to be as good as you, but in your eyes they will never be. They'll never do it as good as you could do it.

Speaker 1: 24:13

Right On certain things. Your idea as being a leader should be to hire people that can do it better than you. I mean, that's my goal is to hire people that can do it better than me, cause you know that's that's what scales a business but also takes a whole ton of work off of your plate, right, um? So what I want to dive into off that, like taking work off plate, like how and I guess this can be a kind of two prong question you know, going into burnout, but also delegation, that with leadership how do those things tie into leadership growth? Because that can be a stressful thing being a leader or being a business owner and having to be forced into that leadership role since you're the owner, the delegation of work, as well as burnout.

Speaker 2: 24:59

I want to reinforce something you said a second ago that I think is so important, devin, and that is that nobody else thinks like you do about the business, and I think, as business owners, we have to be very clear about the expectations that we communicate to and express with our team. If we set the expectation, well, you're not as committed as me, you're not doing all the things that well. They're not you. They don't own the business. This isn't their baby, as you say, and I think that's important and where I see often a fast path to burnout is when the expectations are unrealistic of our team members, and it creates anxiety, it creates stress, it creates frustration, because frustration always comes from missed expectations. I expected this and you delivered this and that gap. Okay, hold on here. Are those the right expectations or do you need to right size them? That is one way to slow the roll toward burnout, because you're slowing your anxiety, you're lowering the stress. That's one piece of that. Another piece of it is delegation. Nobody else is going to do it like you do it. I hear that have the experience. They don't have the investment, they don't have the background that you do. You're the one with the expertise enough to start the business. No, they don't have all that. What's your expectation?

Speaker 2: 26:33

A mentor of mine said and I love this he said if they can do it 80% as well as you do it, you need to hand it off. First time I heard that I was like 80%, that's like a C. I don't want C-level work around here. Come on, this is A. We do A-level work, come on. But you know what? He's spot on right.

Speaker 2: 27:00

The reality is, if we do not delegate it to them, if they can do it 80% as well as we can, we're not giving them an opportunity to grow like we had 80% as well as we can. We're not giving them an opportunity to grow like we had. None of us started at A-plus level work either. We had to grow into it. And if we want to be a true leader, a catalytic leader, we have to delegate so that they will have the opportunity to grow just like we had. And oh, by the way, it creates margin for you so that you're not overwhelmed and overloaded. When you have margin, you have the capacity for creativity. Creativity lives in margin. If you feel like, oh, I don't really have time to be creative, I don't really have, I'm just not creative. It's because you're not allowing margin for it. By delegating, you create margin, and creativity is how leaders solve problems at a high performance level.

Speaker 1: 27:44

And yeah, and like to your 80, 80% thing too. I have heard like a similar thing, and the way I like to explain it as well is like, if you have 100% right and let's say that, let's say there's 10 tasks, or we'll, you know, yeah, we'll say there's 10 tasks If you have, if you're the one doing all 10 tasks, well, you can only give 10% to each of those tasks. If someone else, if you're the one doing all 10 tasks, well, you can only give 10% to each of those tasks. If someone else can give 80% to that task in your eyes and 80% to the other, you know, in eight, uh 10 other people, 80% to all the other ones, will you have 800% versus your a hundred percent. That's right.

Speaker 1: 28:19

Right and it's like at scale, the numbers start to make more sense, Right? So it's like now you have a plus plus work when in reality you know you would have been getting F work all the way around, right? So that's the thing I think with leaders is like you get burnt out easily because you're wearing too many hats for too long and don't get me wrong, I mean you will have to wear a majority of the hats if you're starting off your business, because you can't train someone or hire someone to do something If you don't know how to do it yourself to it. For for certain things right, you know obviously accounting and stuff like that you can hire someone straight out the gate. But if you don't have a system in place, well, you can't expect someone to come in and just create your system for you. They're going to be like this person doesn't know his own business, you know. So that's where you know.

Speaker 1: 29:08

You realize the thing. Like look at your calendar time block, do whatever you need to do to essentially delegate, because then it frees up your space, like you said, to do the things that actually bring in money. Do the things that actually move the needle for the entire company. Do the things that you can actually create the things that you can create, so that you're giving resources and tools to your team. That's good, right? So I mean, I think that's that is huge, and I love that you kind of talk on that. Why do you think that most business owners do get burnt out?

Speaker 2: 29:38

Because they don't delegate. Simply, it's because they don't when are at the center of the spider web, where every decision has to come to you, where every decision comes across your desk, because you haven't delegated, you haven't built a team that can handle making decisions. If that's where you are in your business, congratulations. You are on the road to burnout and you will get there because that's where that road goes. When you learn to delegate, you learn to delegate not just tasks, not just responsibility, but you learn to delegate authority. I want my team to make decisions. I don't want them to just be task driven. Here's what I mean when they come to me and they ask me a question hey, what do you think about this? You know what my number one response is.

Speaker 1: 30:27

They can say it with me.

Speaker 2: 30:28

What do you think? What do you think If I wasn't here? What would you do? Because I want them to learn to make the decisions. I want them to learn to make the decisions. I want them to learn to think. Now, 80, 90% of the time, their response is going to be spot on and I'm going to say, yeah, absolutely Perfect, Go for it. Maybe 10% of the time they're going to come back with an answer. That's just absolutely ludicrous. And that's when, as a leader, you've got to control your face. You've got to control it and not give them that look like what? No, you can't do that, You've just got to hold it. You've got to control it and you've got to say, hmm, okay, well, I see how you could think that. Let me tell you how we do it here. Let me tell you how we do it here. What am I doing? I'm coaching them and teaching them how I think, so that the next time they don't have to ask the question.

Speaker 1: 31:26

Now they know no, I like that.

Speaker 1: 31:29

I mean, even that's something kind of we implement with our team as well.

Speaker 1: 31:33

As you know, when they bring me a question or something like that, often I I started off doing the you know what do you think?

Speaker 1: 31:41

And then it came down to like having to say that so many times it's like, guys, when you bring me a problem or something, I want you to also bring me what your idea of the solution would be yes, right, right or wrong. Right, I just want to see where you go with it. Right and even if it is just way, way outside in a different ballpark of you know thought process, like, okay, explain, how did you like, why, why do you think that? I want to, I want to understand you know what you went with that and and then from there I'll kind of coach them on what I would do it or what I want to do. But I also want to know how they came to that conclusion, because it has happened where I'm like man, that's actually not something I thought about, and then you know and I'm like that actually makes sense and I was like I would have done, I would have done this, and this is the reason why. But I do like the way you're thinking about it.

Speaker 2: 32:30

So let's yeah, let's try it, run it you know, and that's the teachable spirit I'm talking about Evan right there. That's the spirit that says hey, you know what the best idea wins? If it's mine, if it's yours, whoever it is, best idea wins. That's the humility as leaders we have to bring to the table.

Speaker 1: 32:50

And letting your team bring those ideas to the table and, if they are good ideas, letting them execute right. It has more buy-in 100%, 100%.

Speaker 2: 33:00

because they were part of solving it. They were part of crafting the solution. They're always going to have more buy-in to a solution or an idea or a project. They were part of crafting.

Speaker 1: 33:09

Exactly, and that's the thing that a lot of business owners I feel like struggle on is because they think that their ideas need to be the the ones that move the company. It's like realize that you're building a team for a reason and if your team, if your team has contributed to any part of it, like they're going to have more buy-in, they're going to take more action, they're going to try harder for it to actually work right and if, even if, even if it's not working, they'll bring you another version of it. Hey, I think if we switch this up, it might work still. It's like try it out, let's see. Right, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 33:44

Absolutely. If your idea always wins, as the leader, you're not listening enough 100% and I think that that's adding to your stress.

Speaker 1: 33:57

That's exactly right. Like because you feel like you need to have all the ideas and all the solutions, when, in reality, someone else is like hey, I have the solution too, I could do this, perfect, I don't need to think about it now. Like that's one less stress, one less problem, I need to solve perfect. High five, go run it right, that's awesome. Uh, it was something that you've talked about, or I've heard you talk about. Is you know the clear-minded focus, the calm, control and the confidence? Can you break that down a little bit?

Speaker 2: 34:24

Sure, if you, if you really want to move as a leader into high performance, these are the three stages that I think get you there. So often people, when they come to me, they're, they're struggling, they're stuck, they feel like they've they've grown a business or they've gotten to a certain level in their career, but they're just spinning their wheels. And it's most often because they don't have what I call clear-minded focus, that understanding not only of where you are but of where you want to go. Most people can clearly define one of those two points, but they struggle with the other one. It's different for different people. Building the bridge from here to there is not the hard part. The hard part is getting clear-minded and focusing on what each one of those points is.

Speaker 2: 35:13

Once we have that, then you begin to move into emotional regulation. You begin to move into how do I establish calm control in my leadership? I talked about the rock in the pond earlier. Right, you throw that rock at the water. The water is going to react to the rock exactly in proportion to the size of the rock and the velocity of the throw. The water does not overreact, the water does not underreact. The water exactly proportionately reacts and then, after the event, it resettles.

Speaker 2: 35:45

This is the goal for us. That's leading from a place of calm control. When something happens or a conversation is had, or somebody does something, how do you react? Are you overreacting, or are you stuffing it all inside and underreacting? Neither of those is healthy. Learning how to appropriately, proportionately react and then return to the place of calm control, that's a skill and it's what I think is important to really be catalytic as a leader as you do those first two things and you get the focus that comes with clarity, because clarity is kindness. Brene Brown is right Clarity is kindness to yourself as well as to other people. You have clarity. You've established this place of calm control where you're able to react appropriately. This gives you confidence, because confidence is born from past experience. As you are building this new version of you, you then can step out with confidence, knowing I know where I'm at, I know where I'm going and I know how I want to be on the journey. This gives you the confidence that you need as a leader that can overcome things like imposter syndrome 100%.

Speaker 1: 37:01

People like to ask you know, how do I get over you know the imposter syndrome. I'm like what do you feel an imposter about? Right, and that will you know be that because you do own a business, right, Like you have an LLCc, right you. So you are an entrepreneur. Do you feel an imposter that you're an entrepreneur, like it's on paper you are. So what, what is? Where's the imposter syndrome coming so you don't feel like you're at a fortune 500 level yet that, so now only fortune 500 levels are entrepreneurs. That you gotta realize that sometimes the imposter syndrome is, is self um, self-limiting and you put that on yourself. No one else, everyone else already associates you as that right. People already associate you as the leader, as an entrepreneur, as whatever it is. But you don't feel like you're that because you're comparing yourself to other people further along that journey. That's right.

Speaker 2: 37:57

You know it's the expectations you place on yourself Whenever I hear somebody doing that and they set those unrealistic bars. Well, you know, I'm just not real. Yet I ask the same three-word question every time Devin, according to who? According to who? You're holding yourself to a standard? Who set that standard? Where did you get that? You picked it up somewhere. It's not healthy, right? Let's look at data. Let's look at reality as it is, not as you have convinced yourself it should be I agree 100.

Speaker 1: 38:36

I mean honestly everything that we talked about like there is no question, there is, this is an opinion, this is guys. This is how it is, and so I'm interested to hear this final question that I like to ask it's the legacy board, right? So, on your legacy board, what would be the one lasting message that you leave for the up and coming generations that you learned along your life's journey?

Speaker 2: 39:05

I think it would be. It's pretty simple. You get to choose. When it comes to the circumstances around us, the things that happen in our lives. We don't always get to choose those, but when it comes to how we respond, how we react and how we move through those things, you get to choose. Don't complain about what you chose. You get to choose the life you want to live. You get to choose the legacy you want to leave. You get to choose. Don't give away your agency and move into a victim mindset, because when you do that, you hurt everybody around you.

Speaker 1: 39:48

It's very true. I love that. I love that. Where can people connect with you at?

Speaker 2: 39:58

connect with you at. You can connect with me on LinkedIn I'm pretty active over there, just look for William C Attaway and you can also find me at our website, catalyticleadershipnet. That's the hub of everything we do, from the podcast that I host, the coaching that I do, the Facebook group that we host. It's free. You can join that and learn more about leadership and how to become more catalytic, wherever you are.

Speaker 1: 40:17

That is awesome, guys, that it will be in the show notes. Make sure you guys go, check, check them out. If you guys have a friend, if you guys have a family member or your significant other is a leader or a business owner, you know, send this episode to them so that it can help them become a catalytic leader and really have that exponential growth that can, you know, scale them, scale their team and have that positive ripple you know that they're instilling so that they become a greater leader than they currently are. But with that being said, guys, I appreciate you guys. Make sure you guys tune in on the next one. Thank you so much, dr Phil, for coming on today and honestly just dropping amazing, amazing knowledge on leadership, but also the understanding that there is great leadership, there is bad leadership and you can become a catalytic leader if you're just willing to have a learning mindset.

Speaker 2: 41:11

Devin, thanks for having me. It's been an honor to be here, man.