234. What people think about you determines what opportunities you get. w/ Sylvie Di Giusto

First impressions form in just seven seconds, where our brains make up to 11 decisions about others, shaping the trajectory of our interactions and opportunities. These split-second judgments serve as powerful starting points that our brains continuously seek to validate through unconscious biases, making intentional perception management essential for personal and professional success.

• Sylvie Di Giusto spent 20 years in HR before focusing on how perception influences decision-making
• First impressions are starting points, but last impressions determine if people return
• Our brains actively seek confirmation of initial judgments through unconscious biases
• People become less self-aware as they become more successful ("CEO Disease")
• Surrounding yourself with opposing viewpoints increases self-awareness
• When facing crisis, look where others aren't looking for innovation opportunities
• Sylvie developed revolutionary 3D holographic keynote presentations over four years
• True success comes from doing something nobody else is doing
• Perception management isn't about changing who you are, but becoming more of who you are

Chapters

• 0:00 Mindset Cafe Introduction
• 1:50 The Science of First Impressions
• 4:12 Why Perception Shapes Reality
• 9:14 Self-Awareness and CEO Disease
• 16:04 Reinventing Keynote Speaking with Holograms
• 21:27 Legacy and Perception Audits

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Yeah, it's Mindset Cafe. We all about that mindset. Gotta stay focused. Now go settle for the last. It's all in your head how you think you manifest. So get ready to rise, cause we about to be the best. Gotta switch it up. Gotta break the old habits. Get your mind right. Turn your dreams into habits. No negative vibes, only positive thoughts.

Speaker 1: 0:20

What is up, guys? Welcome to another episode of the Mindset Cafe podcast. It's your boy, devin Gonzalez, and today we have a special guest, sylvie DiGiusto. She is a honestly, she's the first of what I hope to be many, because it sounds really cool what she does. But what she does is essentially she's a keynote speaker, talks about something that I really value, which is perception, and she does it in a really interesting way. Right, I don't want to give too much into it. I want her to explain it, because it's always feel best, you know, coming from the person themselves. But you know without further ado, sylvie, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to you know, some drop some knowledge for the Mindset Cafe.

Speaker 2: 1:06

Hi Devin and everybody listening in. I'm so excited to be with you. Thank you very much for having me on your most fantastic podcast.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Thank you for coming. So I mean, I want to dive straight in, because the topic that, you know, we were talking about beforehand and the reason, you know, I really wanted to bring you on to the mindset cafe too, is how you illuminate perception right, because perceptions really, in my opinion, like they shape our lives, right, they influence you know, whether it's a customer decision, whether it's you know, your, your friends, like everything that you do in the perception that you create is it's how you shape your life, it's how you shape your relationships and it's how you shape how the world sees you, right, so what? Right? So what got you interested in perception? Like what was the start of your journey?

Speaker 2: 1:50

Well, first of all, I'm very impressed by your viewpoint. You could give my keynote if I'm not available one day, so thank you very much for presenting that topic so wonderful. You know, I spent 20 years in corporate. I was in human resources, talent development, leadership development and I was always so fascinated why we hire specific people who walk into an interview room and they look exactly the way we want them to look. They behave exactly the way we want them to behave. They say all the right things, behave exactly the way we want them to behave. They say all the right things.

Speaker 2: 2:28

And then, years later, I had to fire them because of a total lack of performance or different reasons, and I wondered what is wrong with us. Why do we believe certain things about people instantly while they have nothing to do with reality? And, on the other hand, why did we have so many young and ambitious leaders in our own organization and they didn't stand out to us. We didn't perceive them as potential candidates. And so, just for my own interest, I started to explore and study everything related to first impressions, perception, image, how you show up, how you present yourself, and when I moved to the United States and led 20 years of corporate career behind. I combined this experience with my knowledge and have the pleasure since more than 15 years to speak to audience members, no matter if they are leaders in organizations or entrepreneurs business owners to help them understand how they are perceived by the world and what impact this has on a customer decision-making process, for example.

Speaker 1: 3:34

No, definitely. It's interesting because sometimes you do take away a lesson or you take away a thought, Because I've thought about that same thing. I've hired people and they gave this initial first impression or this initial perception of themselves and their abilities, and then you know, a few months into it, realizing that they don't. They're a good interviewer, you know or interviewee. But then you know the lack of actual skills, so they were they're a great, you know, perception creator essentially.

Speaker 1: 4:03

So how important is first impression? Because they say, first impression is everything. Is that true?

Speaker 2: 4:10

Yes and no. It's a starting point. You know it's like a race when you have a great starting point, your chances are just higher to win that race. But of course you need to race the entire route right, and so there is a lot of science actually that proves what happens in those first micro moments. I use a study that says in seven seconds we make 11 decisions, or up to 11 decisions, but I don't want you to get hung on those numbers, because there are other studies. They they say 13 seconds, others say milliseconds, others say it's happened online in this way and in person in this way, but what they all have in common is the fact that it happens automatically and it has nothing to do with the fact if you are a good human being or not.

Speaker 2: 4:57

People walk into a room and in the first moments you think you know something about them, and the reality is that most of the day we run on autopilot, right? We don't think really consciously about what we do, what we say, how we behave, how we appear, and so if you don't craft those first moments intentionally, you are losing a huge opportunity. And here's why A first impression unfortunately has to fight against unconscious biases afterwards, because our brain is built in a way that we want to be right. We are looking for proof. Humans don't want to be wrong, right. They don't want to be proven the opposite. We want to have proof that we were right with our initial first opinion about somebody.

Speaker 2: 5:46

So the brain constantly looks for proof subconsciously to confirm what you already thought about this person. So when you, on the other side, craft these first moments exactly how you want to be perceived, you want to be perceived as powerful, some as creative, some as kind, others as strong. So each of us wants to be perceived for something else. But when you craft those first micro moments in an interaction, purposefully and intentionally the way you want them to be, those unconscious biases are working for you, because then people will find proof subconsciously that you are really that creative person or that you are really that strong leader or that powerful communicator or whatever you would like to imprint on us no, I think it is so true, and I mean as unfortunate as it is all right, because there's like the two sides.

Speaker 1: 6:45

One one side says you know, don't judge a book by its cover, and then the other side is the you know automated side of your brain. It's like sometimes it just happens that you immediately start thinking of you know and you don't. You don't try to write. But I mean, let's say, someone comes in, you know, their hair is a mess, right, you know, they look like they just were partying all night. Like immediately you think this person either doesn't care about themselves or is, you know, lazy, or you know, all of a sudden, all these things just fire off in your brain. But at the same time you don't know the backstory. But the perception that was created from that individual gives them a disadvantage right when they walk in the door.

Speaker 2: 7:25

Yes, yes, we say we don't want to charge a book by its cover, and we do it every single day. When we go to the supermarket, when we shop online, even when we go on Amazon and look at book covers, how often are we influenced by just the cover of the book? But the reality is, you know, the cover is just the beginning of the journey, and then you need a good first chapter, a good second chapter, a good third chapter, because here's the reality. As I said, the first impression is the starting point and you can craft it intentionally. But, devon, if I would give you now a list of, let's say, 30 things, 30 items to memorize, a list of 30 terms, and in 20 minutes I would ask you which of them do you still remember? What do you think? Which one people usually remember out of that list of 30?

Speaker 1: 8:17

probably the ones that are more related to them.

Speaker 2: 8:20

More related to them, but in terms of the order, the first one. And.

Speaker 1: 8:26

The last one.

Speaker 2: 8:27

Yes, and this is psychologically proven, and that our brain is always very aware at the beginning and then it starts resting because it wants to save energy. I'm not saying that the middle part is not important, but the brain is just not as focused as it is at the beginning and at the end.

Speaker 1: 8:50

and I always say your first impression opens the door and your last impression will determine if they come back through that door definitely, I mean, yeah, I, I definitely see that because you, let's say, you have interactions with customers or just with people, right, you know friends, you know colleagues, whatever. You don't necessarily always remember every conversation about the day, but you do remember how you felt when you left that person right and that's like.

Speaker 1: 9:21

It's like the lasting impression, you know, is it's truly that, so like, even though it's almost like I'll take it to the fitness side of it. It's like people will have a cheat meal, right, and then they will be like oh, I had a cheat meal, now I can't eat healthy for the rest of the day. It's like, no, you could still save the rest of the day and end on a high note. Same thing with, like you know, communication perception. It's like you could have a little scuffle right, a little mishap, and still continue on the right track and end on a high note, and that's what they're going to remember exactly.

Speaker 2: 9:54

And since you, uh uh, talked about the fitness space, you know the fitness space is a very visual driven space to be in, and when I look into my model, how to impact those first milliseconds, I use a model, a framework A, b, c, d, e the A stands for your appearance, and usually people who are in the fitness space are very visual driven people and surround themselves with such like, and I want you to know that this is a huge advantage for you, because humans are visual creatures. 80% of information our brain transmits in a visual way, so we just look at people and think we know something about them. Are they tall, are they short, are they overweight, are they underweight? Do they take care of their body and care?

Speaker 2: 10:49

You know, taking care of yourself is so important because there is, in terms of leadership, for example, a very simple principle If you don't take care of yourself, people don't assume that you have the capability to take care of them too, and so I always say the most important part of how you present yourself isn't thinking about the others first, it's thinking about yourself, what you stand for and taking care of yourself, so that you subconsciously transmit the message that you also, in what shape or form have the ability to take care of others too?

Speaker 1: 11:32

Yes, I mean, I definitely agree with that. And that's where, even from fitness, or even you know, when you tell yourself you're going to do something and you tell someone else, let's say I'm going to do this after work, I'm gonna go work out, right, and then you, then they ask the next day oh, would you work out? Why did I didn't? I didn't really feel like it right, so immediately, like when that happens, it's like this person can't even hold a promise or, you know, stay true to what they say to themselves. How they're going to stay true when they tell me they promise they're going to do something?

Speaker 2: 12:01

You're saying this while I'm sitting here drinking celery juice, which is the worst of the worst of the worst, and every time I think I shouldn't do this, I should find an excuse, but then I just assume that it's healthy for me and that I have to be disciplined and continue.

Speaker 1: 12:18

I mean, everyone has their, everyone has their right. I mean I will say you know, drinking an energy drink, I'm not drinking the most healthy drink either, but you know, it's one of those things where, again it's, it's more so in the sense of the net positive right.

Speaker 1: 12:33

You know, if you're, if you're net positive, you're net doing everything right. It's like no one's a hundred percent perfect. And if you tried to create a perception that you're 100 perfect or 100 genuine or 100 whatever, it's like people, people see through that. It's almost like I actually I just came back, I told you I was on a flight and I just came back from the opening of one of our new franchise locations um, and he we were talking about google business and and so forth and he was like I was setting up his account with him and I was like, yeah, you know, I have 4.9 stars. I was like I have one battery rating and it was you know from.

Speaker 1: 13:08

And I gave him the example and I was like and there's nothing I could do, I can't dispute it. And he's like you know, I wouldn't want you, you shouldn't want to have five stars. And I was like what do you mean? And it gave me a, a rethink. And he was like, when you see that the perfect score, you think is this real, you know? And he's like so having that genuine, you know 4.9, it's a lot more authentic and that's like almost like a true five star.

Speaker 2: 13:36

Well, two things come together here with this fantastic example that you just shared. First of all, it's not about perfection. It's about intention, being being intentional, not running on autopilot. Perfection is a goal that is not sustainable and that also doesn't work in your favor, because you easily come off as fake. Then right.

Speaker 2: 13:59

And the second thing isn't it fascinating that in between all those positive reviews, you focus on the one that is negative? It's called something negativity bias. We all humans have that. We rather see the things that are wrong before we see the things that are right. So in both ways, it works in your favor, because it sounds more authentic if you have 4.9. But I also want you to be aware the same happens to you. People always see the things that are wrong first, then those that are right. Right, it's in the tiny details that very often shape our perception. And I often get asked is perception reality? Is it really the reality? And I always say yes and no. It might not be true to yourself, but it's always real to the others, because they think that they are right and that they are correct.

Speaker 1: 14:52

I love what you just said, because I actually say something similar and I want to see what your thoughts are on it. Because they say for truth, right, there's your truth, there's my truth, and then there's the truth. Yeah, right Now I almost like to say that there's the same thing for reality. In my opinion, reality is just perception. Your reality is different than my reality and your reality is shaped from all your life choices, all your life experiences, and that's what starts to shape your reality. Not saying you can't change your reality, but that's what you know. In my opinion, reality is is just your perception, and you can start to change it by how they say. You know, walk in someone else's shoes if you can view the world from their standpoint it allows you to open up your reality absolutely.

Speaker 2: 15:44

But on top of this Devon I also have. So I agree, totally, perfectly said. And then I'm adding an additional layer, some bad news.

Speaker 2: 15:54

When it comes to our own truth and to our own reality. We all believe that we are very self-aware, that we know our truth and our reality, but the reality is the older we become, the more successful we become, and the higher we climb, for example, on a career ladder, the less self-aware we become. I call it the CEO disease for two reasons. First of all, we have done things for years and years and years and this somehow seemed to work, so we must be right. And second, the more people are dependent on you so, for example, you lead a fitness studio or you are the CEO in a company the less they will reflect the truth back to you, because they are in some way, shape or form, dependent on you. So unfortunately, it's really sad to say, the older we become, the more successful we become, the less self-aware we actually are.

Speaker 1: 17:00

I definitely see that. I could definitely see that, and why do you think that is, though? Why do you think that it comes from whether it's age or age in a certain title, right? Why do you think that we start to lose that self-awareness?

Speaker 2: 17:19

It's the same powerful source which is unconscious biases. There is confirmation bias. We just look for proof ourselves too. When we reflect on something that we did, we are first looking into the ways why we did it and confirm subconsciously why it was right. And then there is anchoring bias. Anchoring bias makes sure that the thought is anchored in your brain and you cannot let go of it because it's the first initial anchor of your actions and you just continue to believe it. The only way to break this is to constantly question yourself, but not just with what you believe, but also what you might not believe, and to surround yourself with people with opposite opinions constantly. Your environment is very important and usually we have a tendency to surround ourselves with like-minded people, which is amazing because we feel so warm and cozy and confirmed. But if you want to increase your self-awareness, you do the opposite. You consciously surround yourself also with people with opposite point of views and opposite opinions, so that you become more self-aware.

Speaker 2: 18:49

I always give this example because everybody is into it. We are so excited about artificial intelligence, we are so excited about what chat GPT can deliver us in a blink of an eye, and then we just copy paste it. A blink of an eye, and then we just copy paste it. But how often do you, after a prompt, ask chat gpt to now give you the counterpoints? What's wrong about this approach? How could somebody else see this? We just take the the first piece of advice and think that's the way to go, because it comes out of a piece of software that's fed by other humans, so it must be right.

Speaker 1: 19:28

I haven't even thought about that. And that is huge Because I mean it allows. And then, if you do know the counterparts, the counterpoints essentially, then you can expand on your idea or start to reshape your own idea. Because, then people, especially right now, right now with you, know politics, it's so. You know right or left, it's that I've always tried to view myself as like a blend. It's like I like some of this, I like some of that, and it's like that's you know how you got to kind of think of your, your reality.

Speaker 1: 19:59

Or when you're typing a judge VT, like you know that you know you're getting all of one side. It's like, well, maybe you might see some valid points on the other side and you can mix and match to make your own masterpiece.

Speaker 2: 20:11

Yeah, you know, I use artificial intelligence as well. It makes me way more effective and I love using it, but I had to learn that whenever I prompt something and I think I'm done at the very end, my last prompt is always now, please prove me wrong. And it is amazing of the points that I find that I didn't consider, because the software just delivers me what it has learned about me and what the software believes to be true to me. And you should do the same with human beings, with human beings no, I mean it definitely makes sense.

Speaker 1: 20:51

I've got no rebuttal on that, like um. So I mean I do want to kind of transition too, because I don't want to, you know, oversee this, because you do keynote speak as well on these topics, but you do it in a unique way, right?

Speaker 2: 21:04

so let's let's dive into how your keynote speeches go and why you started to go that route so if you have ever been at a conference, which I assume all of you have, then I bet you went through pretty much the same format at every single conference. There is an introducer reads off a bio, then there comes a keynote speaker, shows a few slides, tells stories, then adds a few facts and figures, a little bit humor, and then repeat again and again, and again and again. And I just putting myself into the audience seat from time to time, I realized being the audience member is the hardest job at a conference. It it's not being the organizer, it's not being the speaker, it's sitting there for hours and, you know, keeping attention. And so I was always driven by the idea to do something totally different, to stand out from the crowd, and the pandemic gifted me with the fact that, I have to admit, presenting virtually was a torture for me. I didn't see people on the other side, it was not like a Zoom meeting. As a keynoter, you just have a camera lens, nothing else and a microphone, so you talk into a black hole. I don't hear them laugh, I don't hear them cough, I don't even hear a chair move. And after my first keynote, the one that I gave virtually, when the pandemic hit, I cried, I truly cried, and said if that is my future, I can't do this. And one of my friends you know, here we are Mindset that I called afterwards gave me a very powerful advice. She said if that is not your future, why don't you create your own one? A very powerful advice and so out.

Speaker 2: 22:52

I went and explored holographic technology and, while other speakers use it to beam themselves somewhere, that wasn't my goal. I always wanted to be at the conference, so I create a three-dimensional immersive environment around me and the audience. So, rather than just talking about a brain, for example, and showing you a brain on a slide deck, I create a 3D brain in the room where I walk in to the brain and can show people which parts are engaged during a decision-making process. This project took four years until it was finalized and it is launched, and I'm so grateful that the market is reacting very well on it, because it's something so unique nobody else offers, and if there is one piece of advice I can give you or learning from that journey is in my business.

Speaker 2: 23:56

I have always been good if I saw something somewhere else and just did it a little bit better. So, meaning you, look at your competitors fitness centers and you see something that inspires you and you think, oh yeah, I can do this, but I can do this better and it was kind of good. But I was always great when I did something nobody else did. That made me stand out and that made me truly successful. And for that you might want to look into different industries. I looked into not just holographic, but also medicine, 3d imaging how organs are shown on screens when we go to the doctor and I looked into circuses, cirque du Soleil, who uses holograms. I looked into all places other than the speaking industry because I wanted to do something.

Speaker 2: 24:49

Nobody else and my learning is in crisis. For example, like the pandemic, if everybody looks to the right, because they were all you know, I bring up their virtual studios, bought cameras and microphones and lights and green screens. I looked to the left and on the left there was this beautiful empty space of innovation and disruption and I was the only one on that playground. And so if you want to do something outstanding, don't look what others are doing, don't look to the right. Look to the left and you're going to find something where in the beginning, people might tell you oh, that's not possible, oh no, we have never done this before. And then, when you prove them wrong, you become the new benchmark.

Speaker 1: 25:40

I love that. That's so true. So I mean you said it was four years in the making. What was the journey like within that? I mean most people can't can't wait four months, let alone four years, to get something launched. So you know what was that mental up and down roller coaster that you were on during that four years.

Speaker 2: 25:58

Well, the first year was pretty much driven by the technology, developing the technology, because holographic technology is always flat, it's always two-dimensional, and I really wanted to have this 3D effect. I wanted to be in it. And then the second year was pretty much focused on going back to square one and rewriting my keynotes, because you can't just take a regular keynote into this format. It's more of a production and experience. You have to rethink your own way of presenting and then also getting ready with providing it in a way that it's feasible for my clients, that it's easy to perform something like that at a conference. I didn't want this to become an additional technology pain. And then, when it came to the providers working with you know I make mistakes too I found a provider where at the beginning I thought this is the perfect provider. After one year we figured it just doesn't work. So I had to switch providers. So After a while, after three years, I was ready.

Speaker 2: 27:10

And then I stepped the first time onto stage. And what you don't know is I don't see anything when I'm on stage, in darkness, in between those holograms. I don't see the audience. I don't see the animations, I'm just in the black and I realized, oh my God, there is also a new way of presenting. So for one year, every single month, I flew from Florida to Germany Once per month, rented a studio, built up the technology, rehearsed for seven, eight hours and took the next plane home. Because I wanted it to not be perfect, but I wanted to make sure that I have practiced enough that I can walk out there in the darkness with full confidence and deliver a quality that my clients and my audience members deserve.

Speaker 1: 28:05

I mean, that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 28:06

Yeah, it's never easy, but it's always adventurous and exciting when you do something new.

Speaker 1: 28:12

Yeah, yeah, it is exciting. But it's always adventurous and exciting when you do something new. Yeah it is exciting, but that excitement can start to waver, especially in four years and once a month of flying from Florida to Germany that can get draining.

Speaker 2: 28:32

But there was something beautiful at the end of the tunnel and you know I cannot tell you how many people. Well, no, don't say how many, because I didn't share it with a lot of people. I kept it a secret. But I talked to people in my circle of trust and I listened to their concerns, but the main concerns, or the main worries, were all related to the event industry not being ready for it, the clients not being ready for it, the audience not being ready for it. And now, looking back, I'm so glad that I didn't listen to that, but rather focused on well, how can I prepare it that the market is ready for it? How can I design it that the audience has this wow moment? So, mindset wise. We all know how critics work. Learn to use that energy of critic to turn it into a product that is even better and silence the critics. And now, as I said, first people tell you it's not possible and then you become a benchmark no, that's awesome, that honestly, that I commend you for that.

Speaker 1: 29:49

That is so cool, and I mean being the first you know in a space is never an easy easy journey right, because you try to explain it to people. You try to, you know, let's, you know, give the example of why you should do. You know you should be the one of the keynote speakers and they're like, yeah, but I don't get it. What do you mean? There's three D's and it's an immersive and it's this and it's that.

Speaker 1: 30:10

So I commend you for taking that, that uncommon path and being the first thank you very much.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Thank you very much, uh, and you know, if you plan something similar, uh, go for it, do it. If you don't try, you will never find out. If you don't fall, you won't be able to stand up wider and taller and try it again. And it was one of the most amazing journeys that I went on and I'm truly proud of what I and, of course, a team have achieved there.

Speaker 1: 30:47

No, and as you should, you definitely should be proud of yourself for taking that journey. Now, before we wrap up, I'd like to ask one more question, though. Yeah, right, and this question is the legacy wall question, right? So, on Sylvie's legacy wall, right? What is the one lasting message that you've learned along your life's journey, whether it was through corporate, whether it was through taking this, you know, four year journey to launch this new, immersive keynote speaking? But what would the one message be, essentially for the up-and-coming generations?

Speaker 2: 31:19

My message on my legacy war. Wow, what a deep question. You should have prepared me for that, no way.

Speaker 1: 31:25

Yeah, it has to be the first thing that comes to mind. So the reason I like to prepare people for this question is because it's that first thing that comes to mind. So the reason I like to prepare for people for this question is because it's that first thing that comes to mind is usually the thing that means most.

Speaker 2: 31:39

I wanted to say she had fun, she enjoyed and she did the best she could.

Speaker 1: 31:46

Okay, definitely. I mean, where can people connect with you and see more that you got going on with your keynote speaks, with your topics of perception?

Speaker 2: 31:58

Well, if you type in my name that is a very unique name on the internet chances are high that you find all my social media accounts, that you find my website, that you find my videos, that you find the 12 books that I have written at this point, but what I really encourage you is to go on my website and look for a perception audit. It's a free 15 minute audit where I ask you a variety of questions that I encourage you to answer truthfully, because at the very end, I will reflect back to you what people think of you when they think of you. So you will get, as a result, a personal report about your perception and, again, that doesn't mean that it's correct that you are this way, but what it reflects you back is what other people think about you and how they perceive you.

Speaker 1: 32:53

No, that's awesome, yeah, and if you know that information, then you can adjust certain parts so that you can be perceived as you want to be perceived.

Speaker 2: 33:02

Exactly, exactly. It is not about changing of who you are, it is about becoming more of who you are.

Speaker 1: 33:11

Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on taking the time out of your day to hop on the Mindset Cafe. Guys, make sure you check her out. I'll put her links to her, some of her social medias and the audit in the show notes. So make sure you guys do do that, because if you think you're being perceived one way, who knows what others actually do think about you in first impression or last impression? So, sylvie, thank you so much again for taking the time out of your day to hop on the Mindset Cafe.

Speaker 2: 33:36

Thank you very much for having me and Devin, thank you for all you do to keep this wonderful audience engaged and informed, and it was a true pleasure to be with you.

Speaker 1: 33:46

It was my pleasure, thank you.