Rescue Reboot: Hard Truths and Fresh Ideas for Saving Animals in 2025

Hey there!
In this episode, you’ll hear us refer to the show as Starlight Pet Talk—that’s what we called it before we decided to embrace the fur, mess, and mayhem. Don’t worry, you’re in the right place for Muddy Paws and Hairballs—same great content, just with a name that fits! - Amy

Join us for an inspiring and eye-opening conversation with Daio Floyd, a seasoned dog trainer and rescuer, as she shares her journey from competing in dog sports as a young enthusiast to founding and leading a training and rehabilitation rescue.

In this episode, we dive deep into:

• The evolving challenges and triumphs in animal rescue.
• Insights into how rescues operate, from large-scale facilities to home-based efforts, and the critical importance of community support and funding.
• Managing common shelter dog behaviors like reactivity and separation anxiety that often lead to surrender.
• The ethical and practical considerations of resource allocation, including difficult decisions about intake criteria and prioritizing animals with better adoption prospects.

Daio’s unique perspective sheds light on what it takes to give rescue animals the best chance at finding their forever homes while maintaining their well-being.

As we wrap up, we spotlight:

• The essential role of volunteers in rescue operations and how aligning their skills with tasks can improve outcomes.
• Strategies for building stronger community engagement to enhance rescue efforts.

2025 is the year to make big strides in animal welfare, and this episode calls on YOU to take action, support rescues, and make a real difference for animals in need.

Quick Update: We’re taking a short break and will be back with a batch of fresh episodes starting August 10! 
In the meantime, binge your way through 100+ past episodes packed with pet-saving sanity—and maybe even solve that one issue that's driving you (and your pet) nuts. 
Catch up, take notes, and we’ll see you soon! 

Chapters

• 0:00 Reflecting on Rescue Practices
• 10:58 Improving Animal Rescue Practices
• 16:28 Rescue Criteria and Animal Care Standards
• 28:45 Rescue Criteria and Adopter Considerations
• 36:29 Adopter Criteria and Rescue Standards
• 47:47 Adopter Considerations and Animal Needs
• 58:07 Effective Volunteer Management in Animal Rescue
• 1:01:02 Volunteer Engagement and Mental Health
• 1:09:35 Improving Volunteer Engagement in Animal Rescue
• 1:20:34 Empowering Animal Advocates in 2025

Transcript

Amy Castro: 0:31

As the year comes to a close, it's the perfect time for animal rescues and shelters and anyone who's passionate about animal welfare to take a step back and evaluate long-standing practices. Are the systems we've relied on still the best ways to help animals and adopters succeed? In this episode, we're going to reflect on what's working well in the rescue world and where there might be room for growth. Whether you're a seasoned rescuer or you're simply interested in improving outcomes for pets, this episode will give you plenty to consider as we move toward a more successful 2025. Stay tuned. You're listening to Starlight Pet Talk, a podcast for pet parents who want the best pet care advice from cat experts, dog trainers, veterinarians and other top pet professionals who will help you live your very best life with your pets. Welcome to Starlight Pet Talk. I'm your host, amy Castro, and today I am thrilled to welcome my guest, dio Floyd.

Amy Castro: 1:28

Daio is a highly accomplished figure in not only the dog training but also the rescue world.

Amy Castro: 1:33

Her journey into the dog world began at a very early age like way earlier than I was like surprised at that Inspired by her father, who is a renowned trainer in IPO dog sport both in the US and internationally. By the age of eight, she'd already entered her first national level competition, which is an amazing accomplishment for somebody so young, and since then she has gone on to win the 2021 German Shepherd Dog Nationals. She placed second in the Working Dog Championships and she represented the US as the number one member of the universal team at the WUSV and you're going to have to tell us what that stands for World Championship in Lerma, Spain. So currently she runs a small training and rehabilitation rescue for dogs in need in New Jersey, and we had several discussions before we recorded this episode and felt like you know, together our blend of training expertise and rescue passion would make us the best people to have this conversation. So here we are, dayDo, thank you so much for being on the show.

Daio Floyd: 2:37

Thank you for having me.

Amy Castro: 2:38

Yeah, so tell us a little bit more. I mean I hit some highlights of your experience, but you've been in the dog world since you were in the single digit age, so tell us a little bit about how that progressed from dog world, dog sport to rescue and rehab and training.

Daio Floyd: 2:53

Yeah, so my father, like you said, really big into IPO dog sport, um evolved from Schutzen, which is the basis of how we train police dogs and military dogs in this country. So as a kid I was always around dog sports. I was especially around and interested in bike sports too, um, so that was something that really guarded my interest when I was little. And you know, for a kid, I think initially my dad was like I don't want my little girl out here doing this with you know grown men and big dogs, but he just couldn't keep me in the house, so it just kind of became a thing I'm going to do life long.

Daio Floyd: 3:26

I guess I got to teach her how to do it the safe way, um, and so it kind of evolved from that and um, yeah, so then when I was eight I entered the nationals. I think I placed like 15th or something and yeah, I've kind of just been showing dogs and loving dogs since then. And yeah, yeah, that was the process. So now during COVID especially, you know, competition weren't happening, nothing was really going on and people knew, okay, well, this lady has trained dogs, she's a dog trainer, and they would either not pick up their dogs from training because they couldn't afford it, or their housing and change, or whatever the situation may be, or they would just abandon their dogs at the house because she likes dogs. And then I just kind of ended up getting stuck with dogs and that's how this program kind of started, because I can't keep them all, so I needed to train them and find some home. And yeah, that is how underdogs began.

Amy Castro: 4:17

Oh, okay, great. You know it's interesting that you got two sets of people that probably are listening to this. You've got normal people and then you have rescue people who are far from normal, and the rescue people are listening to that and thinking, yeah, that's what happens all the time. And you've got regular people who are thinking I can't believe somebody would just take their dog to training and never come and get it. But it literally happens every single day and I think that's a good tie in to what we're talking about today and I want to make it kind of clear up front.

Amy Castro: 4:48

I hope that everything we talk about is food for thought for people who are involved in rescue and maybe an opportunity for them to look at what they're doing. At the same time, I will speak for myself and say, although I, you know I run a rescue, I have volunteered, you know, for 10 years at a shelter as the head volunteer. I interact with other rescues and I also get a lot of feedback about other rescues, from their adopters, from volunteers who've left their rescues and come here. So I'm speaking from a place of experience, but I'm certainly by no means when I say rescues shouldn't do this or rescues should do that.

Daio Floyd: 5:22

Am I speaking?

Amy Castro: 5:23

for every rescue, but I'm just kind of sharing my experiences. What has been your experience other than, obviously, running your own rescue? What's your experience in working with rescues and shelters?

Daio Floyd: 5:34

Well, I feel like it's important to note that every rescue and shelter situation is different, right? Some facilities are huge, some facilities are like in someone's house, right, so everybody's at a different level of the work they're trying to do for the community and a different level of funding. So that heavily affects the amount of responses that they're allowed to get from the community. Right, because if you are a small rescue and you constantly have to push out, we need help for surgeries, we need this, we need this.

Daio Floyd: 6:00

It's hard because the community, I think, kind of gets a little used to seeing beg all the time. So it's hard to get that interaction where some rescues are like, hey, we're putting out the most beautiful photographs of these dogs and they all look amazing and super friendly and we're doing, know, a meat and gruyere brewery, that's going to get a lot of traction, a lot of interest. So you know it's tough for me. I think one of the biggest things that rescues can do I mean, I know there's a lot of disagreements within rescues, but the biggest thing we can do is just realize that we're all working towards the same goal, right, we all want these animals to get all. We all want them to be happy and safe and cared for, and that's where the focus has to go, you know.

Amy Castro: 6:38

Yeah, yeah, that's such, that's such a good point and it's it's almost a become a joke or a cliche in the rescue world that we shouldn't be in competition with each other.

Amy Castro: 6:47

Now I, you know, on one hand I guess one could say that if you're in a small, a small community and there's two animal rescues that kind of do the same thing, you know on some level, yeah, you probably are, you know, to a certain degree in competition from the standpoint of limited volunteer pool, let's say, or limited amount of donations locally. But I think if we, instead of looking at as us against them, if we looked at opportunities on how we can work together and share those resources, you know one of the sayings that I love as a professional speaker and trainer, not for animals but for humans, got to train them to behave as well. In my National Speakers Association, the mantra is not to get your piece of the pie but work together to make the pie bigger. And I think we need to take that mindset a little bit more in rescue the pie bigger, and I think we need to take that mindset a little bit more in rescue.

Daio Floyd: 7:41

I would even challenge the thought that two rescues in a small area aren't competing because they have different animals in their facilities, right? So the adopter who might be perfect for one dog at this facility may not be perfect for another dog, and that is the way that these rescues and shelters can have a community and be able to say, hey, we don't have a dog who's a good fit for you, but you know who does Quades across the street and help each other out.

Amy Castro: 7:58

Yeah, exactly, you know to do those referrals and I think a lot of rescues do a good job at that. But that is a good point. Like I had mentioned to you before, we started recording that we have mostly done cats, and it's just because of it's a long story, but it's because of how we got started and you know the fact that it was more convenient to stash a bunch of cats at my house than it was to stash a bunch of dogs. And then you know it's not to say that we don't adopt out dogs, but yeah, I mean it's like you know, we are probably 80% cats to 20% dogs and there are other groups where they're. You know the exact opposite.

Amy Castro: 8:33

And it's interesting because you said adopters and yes, that's a piece of it. I mean, obviously we are the cat. You know some people even refer to us as a cat rescue and it's like, well, no, we don't just do cats, but we certainly do a lot of cats. Not only do we draw cat adopters but we draw people who want to volunteer with cats, and so that's not going to be the same volunteer that's going to go to the other group, that's doing.

Amy Castro: 8:54

Great Danes or something like that.

Amy Castro: 8:56

you know, or whatever, as a matter of fact I was surprised to find out when we were trying to and this is kind of a good point on your maybe jumping ahead of things when we're talking about attracting volunteers is that I was wondering, why do we struggle so much amongst our pretty decent volunteer pool to get anybody literally anybody to take in a dog as a foster? And I was surprised to find that many of my volunteers are afraid of dogs and it's like, okay, I just thought you were cat people, but I just don't think about like oh, you could also be afraid of dogs. So that was kind of surprising. Or they were worried about destruction of their homes when they went out and things.

Amy Castro: 9:34

And it probably makes a good point to how we market for adopters and volunteers as well. You know, I mean, it's like you just, like in any in any other business, you go to where your audience is. So if I am mostly a cat rescue, then I should be figuring out where is it that cat people hang out whether it's physically in my town or whether it's on social media, you know versus a person who does you know a specific breed of dogs. Obviously, those people are going to be hanging out in a very different place than my cat people.

Amy Castro: 10:04

So it's such a good point. So let's talk about animal care and welfare, because obviously there are a lot of issues surrounding how that is done. I know that we have run into so. We have four cat kennels in a local pet shop and they're quite nice. You know, in my perspective they're quite nice. The cats are not in there long-term. We give them a break. Of course the public doesn't necessarily see that that a cat might be up there two weeks and if it is showing any signs of stress we'll bring it back to a home environment. But even that has its challenges because cats don't like change. But when it comes to care and you know, kind of the animal welfare side of things, what are some of the things from the standpoint of how we're housing and caring for animals that you would say rescues probably need to take a look at?

Daio Floyd: 10:58

animals that you would say rescues probably need to take a look at. I feel like a lot of times in shelters and rescue setup and this is specifically for facilities, especially with dogs when we have like kennel run setup, we are essentially creating reactivity, and so reactivity and separation anxiety are some of the two biggest reasons that dogs enter training or that dogs are surrendered Right Because people can't handle it.

Amy Castro: 11:18

They're like I can't go.

Daio Floyd: 11:19

I can't go for a walk. Every time I walk outside, my dog is barking off the leash, it's pulling, it's pulling my arm. Those are big reasons. So when we're keeping dogs for, however long we may keep them, when we're keeping them and we're not addressing those behaviors in every little part of their lifestyle, Right To their day-to-day interaction with other jobs, to where they're bored at the time, all of that affects how they're going to react when they end up going home and actually finding a family right. So, as far as being able to make sure that they are actually progressing during the time that they're being held or that they're in your facility or in your care, I think that's one of the biggest things and it hits on every level, not just like, okay, I'll take the dog home, I'll feed it and we go for walks and I'm a good foster Because, yeah, I don't think you're a bad person.

Daio Floyd: 12:08

You are doing what that animal needs. But we can elevate that and that's the way to actually get our animals adopted, yeah, and to make sure that we're applying ourselves to say, okay, so they came in with this issue. How do we fix it? How do we change it? How do we make sure that when they do get to go home, they're now in a place where we can say, hey, so this is what we did and this is what worked for them on the walk. So now that you can do that and you can make sure that this animal is going to have success going forward, I think that process, starting from where they live, is the process that works for animals to actually be successful, that works for adopters to actually have that follow through and help so they have a game plan when they bring this animal home. I think that that is the key part of making sure that the facility, the lifestyle from the ground up is correct. I'm making sure that the facility and the lifestyle from the ground up is correct. You know that's a good point.

Amy Castro: 12:57

You know tying that into.

Amy Castro: 12:59

You know one of my personal challenges when it comes to the whole animal care side, and it's really about the whole, the whole pipeline, for lack of a better term when we first started the rescue, we would take in anything and everything and very quickly you realize actually it took us several years of basically being to the point of wanting to cut off our own heads you get to a point where you have to start making decisions from the time of intake and beyond, because you know there's a couple of challenges that I think that come into play.

Amy Castro: 13:33

You know number one what can you adequately care? Challenges that I think that come into play. You know. Number one what can you adequately care for, whether it's housing, whether it's being able to provide those behavioral needs, the training, whatever it might be, and then the aspect of, I think, adoptability and how long that animal is in the system. So I want to talk a little bit about kind of all of that stuff, because there are rescues and we've done it before. You know well, like right now we've got a blind pit bull. She's been on our program for two years and it's like is that something to?

Amy Castro: 14:03

be proud of, or have we done wrong by her? And I think it depends on how they're living. Obviously, you know, if somebody's living in a cage for two years, this dog's living in my house If she doesn't get adopted although anyone who wants to adopt a blind pit bull don't listen to this part of the episode but if she doesn't get adopted, I'm just going to keep her because she's only and this is another thing, she's only adoptable in some narrower parameters, right? She's not open to everybody. So let's address these couple steps along the pipeline. So, as far as you know, making decisions about what you should or should not take in, you know, we try to look at. We have kind of criteria that we've established. Now, how much is it going to cost us and do we have the funds to care for it?

Amy Castro: 14:49

Whatever, especially, if it's a medical case, how adoptable is it? And then you know, then there's the safety factor, like there are a lot of people who believe everything needs to be saved. I don't necessarily believe that. It's like you want to take on that liability, that responsibility, and put in a lot of time and effort into an animal that you could have put all of that time and effort into five other animals who are highly adoptable. You know so you start making decisions like that. So what are your thoughts on the? You know, like, let's start with the intake. Like what could rescues do better to make that? Yes and no, we're going to take it in decision from the get go.

Daio Floyd: 15:26

So rescues and shelters are both usually started by people who have really really great intentions, but these are not people who are veterinarians. These are not people who have really really great intentions, but these are not people who are veterinarians. These are not people who are behavioralists, these are not people who are trainers. So these are not people who work with animals for a consistent basis. And a lot of times, realistically, the rescue field, the majority of people who are rescuers, are women, and they're women who work over 35.

Daio Floyd: 15:50

So we're talking about people who may be retired, people who may not be necessarily having the physical capabilities to take care of a one-year-old mastiff or Great Dane, right. And so when we believe that we have to take in all these animals and we have to save as many, but we can't give them the quality here or help or the assistance that they actually need, we're putting ourselves at a disservice as well as the animal, and that's something that I think rescues and facilities have to learn over time, because you can't convince anybody. You don't want to be convinced, but that is something that, doing this for a while, you will learn as far as what you are actually able to do. So I do think that's an important piece of it.

Amy Castro: 16:29

Yeah, even starting back in the volunteer days when I was volunteering for a local city shelter, we pretty much avoided for the longest time doing offsite events, to be perfectly honest, because our volunteers, although they were probably okay to come, go out to the fenced backyard and take one dog out of time, let it run around and play and then bring it back in. They did not have the dog handling experience or the behavior experience to see.

Daio Floyd: 16:56

To take a dog in public.

Amy Castro: 16:57

To take a dog in public. And the one time I will never forget it, like the one time that I convinced the facility like let's just go and participate in this thing, we're going to take this limited number of animals. I kid you not, there was a almost dog fight and I saw it from across the room getting ready to happen and intervened. Ok, the volunteer that was handling the dog, who was going nose to nose with a strange dog, had no clue, despite the fact that we did provide, you know, to the best of our ability, some training. Obviously they needed a lot more. Another dog, soon, like within five minutes of getting there, got off leash and was running around loose inside the facility. It's like, okay, never, ever again.

Amy Castro: 17:40

You know, and you know you don't want to take that one experience and say, well, really, never again. But I think it is important to think about, you know, especially if you are foster-based or if you have volunteers coming into your facility, what are they able to handle? I know a lot of the larger. You know you talked about the big organizations versus the small. You know a lot of the big organizations have very clear guidelines. I am a red volunteer and I've had this level of training and I can take out all the dogs who are labeled red and not red in a negative way.

Amy Castro: 18:05

Just pick the color.

Daio Floyd: 18:07

And.

Amy Castro: 18:07

I'm brand new, so I don't have any dog handling experience.

Daio Floyd: 18:11

I've only had this one little hour of training, and so I can only take out blue dogs, and it's like there's something to be said for that and that works great in theory, but when you're also talking about animals who have like especially working dog breeds or dogs who have like certain anxieties, the consistency is part of what they're missing. So even when we have six or seven different volunteers coming, the dog is not getting consistency because they're not seeing the same person every day. So they have to restart and build a foundation, rebuild a relationship. Every time a new person comes to their door and then they're doing that overwhelming for months on end. Eventually they get tired of that and they don't want to come out anymore, or they're like I don't trust you, I mean I'm a little nippy.

Daio Floyd: 18:57

And so then we say, oh well, now this dog has to be put on the E-list or this dog, you know, it's not safe, this dog can't be adopted out no, then it's not getting consistency. They're not bonding with any humans. They're in a facility where there's constant noise and there's no connection, and for a lot of dogs, especially working dog breed, they deteriorate really fast in those kinds of environments. So it makes it even harder for them to end up getting adopted. You know.

Daio Floyd: 19:16

So when we, when we do this process, even when we have such a a well-organized group as far as like okay, this person is trained. We still have to make sure that they're trained to the level that they need to be, which is hard because most trainers don't want to work for free, especially good ones, but that that is an an important key to as far as being able to have some kind of community, or reach out to the people who are in their area, who do have longevity within their community, who have really worked well, because people will help, people will help, and getting people who actually do this to help is going to be work its way to gold, as opposed to getting new volunteers. If you can get someone who really knows what they're doing, it makes so much of a difference.

Amy Castro: 19:59

Yeah, and I think the challenge becomes, you know, for the many, many small rescues that are out there.

Amy Castro: 20:06

And I've learned, I've learned this like well, first of all, I've discovered that if I decide, in this rescue in Starlight Outreach and Rescue, that we're going to take in a dog, there's one of two places that it's going to end up. And one would be with our veterinarian, not like living at the vet all the time, but with our veterinarian, and that's likely because she asked us to bring in a case that she had. Or it's coming to my house because I don't have anybody. And then, even then, we've gotten to the point where it's like exactly what you said, like a Malinois or a Mal mix. It's like I don't have the time and energy to manage that and give it what it's need. So, no, I will not take that in. You know, you want to give me an old, blind Shih Tzu. You know, yeah, I could probably manage that with my existing, you know, and understanding the existing makeup of the already four dogs that are in my living room right now.

Daio Floyd: 20:57

And it's a range. It's also important.

Amy Castro: 20:59

Yeah, it's from the four-pound chihuahua to the 40-pound blind pit bull and a couple of oddballs in between. So it's like I've got to think about all that mix and I think when rescues decide we're going to go for volume, because we went through that and it was post, a little bit post-COVID, where we were growth mode and it's like, well, we only brought in this many dogs last year or this many animals last year. We need to ramp that up. And then it finally dawned on me when I was about ready to cut off my own head Do we actually have to do that? Maybe we don't.

Amy Castro: 21:32

And that's where we really started establishing some criteria of what we're going to take in and literally like we came up with a system of assigning a point value to an animal based on capacity only Right litter of bottle fed kittens because of the amount of time and effort that it takes to care for those animals. And so you know, that way we know that what we're taking in is something that we can manage, based on the housing that we have, based on the number of volunteers that we have, based on how long is somebody willing to hold on to some bottle babies that are a day old. Are they going to keep them until they're weaned, or are they like I can only lose sleep for two weeks and I need them to go to somebody?

Amy Castro: 22:16

else, and so we created this whole system and it really impacted the number of animals we could take in. But I feel like it really highly increased the quality of the care and then the ability to get them ready for adoption. But I see other organizations like there's one locally that it's at least on a monthly basis they're advertising that a foster has lost a dog and I know that happens.

Daio Floyd: 22:42

But I think it happens because there's obviously something that's missing for it to happen so frequently, I think, and also, I think we do the animals a disservice when we think of them as something that needs to be saved. We want to see them helped instead of addressing them as an animal and saying, ok well, this animal is really stressed, this animal is clearly very overwhelmed. Let me take a second out now. Well, we have to get Sparky bitchy today. You can post it on the top of all those and Sparky's in the back of the crate growling and screeching and freaking out. Yeah, it's yeah, sparky, you're ready for the big show. Sparky doesn't need a home right now. Sparky needs to decompress.

Amy Castro: 23:20

Yeah, what are your thoughts about? You know, because I am of the belief that some animals just should not be adopted out. Oh yeah, I'm not saying I've come across a ton of them, but I think there are some. Like to me when start putting, and I'll use Sassy as a prime example. So she is blind, she's around certain kinds of people, she's fine, but she can be nippy and she has, you know, nipped at people, especially in situations where, like as an example, if I was to have a party, which I never would but if I was to have a party and a bunch of people came through the door at the same time and all my dogs were loose and everybody was raising holy hell.

Amy Castro: 24:01

And then somebody went to reach to pet Sassy. It would not surprise me if she snapped at them, because she has no idea what's going on.

Amy Castro: 24:07

She can't see all the other dogs are going nuts, they're all putting off this. You know crazy energy and so you know, obviously I manage those situations. But your average, you know. It's like I can't adopt her out to the average person and there is a voice in the back of my head that says, should I even adopt her out at all? You know, like if you have to put these kind of you know parameters and then there's some, I think, that are so extreme that like it shouldn't be a question in your head that it shouldn't be adopted out, I don't, I don't even think Sassy's that bad, yeah, but what are your thoughts?

Daio Floyd: 24:39

No, I. So I've gone to the same vet since I was a child named Larry, and he's amazing. He runs Philadelphia Animal Hospital and when we talk about dogs with behavioral issues and dogs who have experienced so much trauma, right, or have serious health issues, the main thing that he always says is look at the quality of life and the quality of life will tell you right. So, in your position, if you're saying Sassy Sands, the Christmas party, has a good life, has activity, has, you know, loving her, and wants to do stuff, then that dog, she's good to go. She just needs to find someone who doesn't do nothing and has no visitors, right? But, um, unfortunately.

Daio Floyd: 25:18

Yeah, in rescue I have experienced animals who I mean. I once went to do an eval on a plan of a lady who worked in rescue and she took the dog home because she said they tried to put him down and it was a huge pit bull course. They tried to put him down and for whatever reason I don't know if the dosage was off or something, but he didn't go out. So she said well, I'm gonna take him home and he's treated up multiple times, you know. But but because we're looking at them as this mythical thing of goodness instead of an actual animal. Yeah, people do that and they put themselves in danger and they put themselves in harm's way, you know.

Amy Castro: 25:55

Well, and they put. They put unsuspecting adopters and the person walking in the park. I mean that's, you know, it's, it's it's one thing for the animal to have a quality of life. It's, you know, I think, public safety and you know I always think about. You know what? What if this dog goes out and you know, bite some kid's face off or kills, kill somebody? You dog goes out and you know, bite some kid's face off or kills kill somebody.

Daio Floyd: 26:16

You know it's like I don't know what. That is the way rescues interact with each other, because if you put a dog down and doesn't technically have a bite history, other rescues are going to come after you. You know, even if you've had it evaluated by every behavioral and every person, they're going to come after you and say, well, this dog deserves to live, because they're not working with one. So they don't know.

Amy Castro: 26:33

Know what you're experiencing, yeah, so we don't necessarily advertise that stuff, although I always tell my volunteers and anybody else. It's like if you ask me what happened to so-and-so, I'm going to tell you the truth, and if you don't like it, then you should have stepped up and taken him home and adopted him yourself, because I can't, and you know, and it's the same thing I tell people adopters when I turn them't.

Amy Castro: 26:52

And it's the same thing I tell people, adopters, when I turn them down. And it's like you can make you know, you can make all kinds of justifications for the things that you do, like declawing, and the bottom line is I'm the one that's adopting it out. I have to live with my decision, mentally, physically, emotionally, and so the answer is no, and it's you know. So if somebody wants to question my euthanasia decision, have at it, because I've not done it a lot, but I've always done it in good conscience and obviously in consultation with a behaviorist and a veterinarian Like I mean, I I always do my due diligence and I always want to give an animal every chance, but I I can't adopt that on animal.

Amy Castro: 27:26

that I think is a ticking time bomb.

Daio Floyd: 27:29

And I think that even extends to the adopters, because I know a lot of doctors. They get like they're panties in a bunch because they weren't chosen or whatever that case may be. But sometimes you were just not the right fit for this animal. Sometimes you're not realistic or transparent enough about how much time you do have to devote to this animal. So you know, if a facility can see that, then you know yeah, maybe the dog's cute, but it might not be. It might not be cute when you take it home, it might not be cute around your kids, it might not be cute for your household. So you've got to be realistic about that.

Amy Castro: 28:01

Yeah, let's go ahead and transition into talking about that a little bit, because, as somebody that has a rehabilitation rescue, like, why do that and put in however many months trying to get a dog ready to be living in society, when in that same amount of months you could have gotten dogs that were already sort of ready through your program and adopted out? Like if it took you six months maybe you could have had six dogs adopted out. And I know that's not math, math, but what are your thoughts on that?

Daio Floyd: 28:33

well, I mean, realistically, anyone who enters rescue because they think they're going to make money or it's going to be a quick process is probably doing it wrong anyway. Yeah, cause you won't. Um, so for me, and and truthfully, um because, again, because my background is in training, working on is in training dogs for sport I think I'm more comfortable with dogs who do have the reactivity issues or they're too high energy and those sorts of things, and so I understand those dogs very quickly so it doesn't take me as long to train them and rehabilitate them as it would a regular shelter or rescue. So for me it kind of puts me on the same timeline as most programs because I'm just really comfortable with them.

Daio Floyd: 29:20

In working with shelters I have seen so many, especially because I'm right near Philly and the ACC in Philly has a lot of trouble because they just get an exorbitant like they're insane volume of animals coming in and especially, you know, working on breeds roddy, pitbull, malinois, german shepherds and doberman, and those are the breeds that I'm familiar with. So for me, knowing that if those dogs were literally just out of the shelter environment they could have so much more success, um, it just made it, make the rehab part of it, make so much more sense versus, you know, them living in an apartment in Philly and not getting any of the exercise or the outings that they need. So that, yeah, that was the rehab, just I don't know. It just made sense to me.

Amy Castro: 30:04

Yeah, well, and maybe that's a good answer. No, that is a good answer. I mean, I think that it makes a good point, instead of being all things to all creatures and all people you know, maybe looking at what are your area of expertise, what are your resources, and stick sticking to what you can handle. And so just because that Doberman needs rescuing doesn't mean you're the person that needs to do it, and maybe that's the one that you need to say no to, because you don't have the resources or the time.

Amy Castro: 30:31

There's a rescue in Houston. I won't name it because I don't want to throw them Not that I'm throwing them under the bus, I'm actually saying good things about them but they get a lot of heat because they, if you look at their adoptable pets it's nine times out of 10, little, fluffy, white, highly desirable dogs, and so you know there are people that give them a lot of crap about that because it's like oh well, you know, you only take in this, You're cherry picking.

Amy Castro: 30:58

Well, it's like, yes, we are, you know. Like you know, yeah, we are cherry picking because we know our limitations, we know what we can get adopted, we know our age and what physically we can handle, like you mentioned before. And so you know who cares Let them rescue what they can rescue and cares Let them rescue what they can rescue and they're doing hundreds and hundreds of animals that they're saving.

Amy Castro: 31:19

Are they saving pit bulls off the streets of Houston? No, but are they taking in animals that are going from a bad situation and putting them into a good situation? Yeah, so more power to them, and maybe more of us need to think about that as so. More power to them, and maybe more of us need to think.

Daio Floyd: 31:36

Think about that as so near us we recently had an issue with that.

Daio Floyd: 31:39

So we're near Pennsylvania and so there's a lot of Amish puppy milk breeders and so unfortunately that causes a lot of people. When we consider rescue, right, rescue is such a broad term as far as like what we need when we're rescuing an animal. So a lot of times people will go to these Amish puppy mill breeders. They have auctions where they will kind of trade dogs amongst each other or where they'll just say, hey, you know anybody wants this, you can have it. Or you can just go to their farms and they'll give you an older breeding dog that they're done with. But during these processes the rescues are essentially paying these Amish breeders for the dog and so that doesn't stop that cycle of the puppy mill breeding, right. So because now the honest mills has their money and the rescue has cute dogs who are adoptable and who are, you know, really really marketable, so it does get a lot of interest, it does get. Your application, you know, will skyrocket when you get a cute little, fluffy dog.

Amy Castro: 32:32

Yeah.

Daio Floyd: 32:34

We're still feeding into that same, that same cycle, the same way that we get on people for going and buying a dog. It's the same thing. Yeah, you know I think rescues do have to unpack what, what their overall goal is and what they truly want. But yeah, you've got to take in the animals you can handle, but also be transparent about, one, where you're getting your dogs from and, two, you know that process and what it's doing to your community.

Amy Castro: 33:01

Yeah, you know, that's a good, that's a good point and it's such a catch 22, if you think about it, because the same thing happens in horse rescue, you know they a lot of people spend.

Amy Castro: 33:14

You know there are rescues that they go every, whatever it is every week, every month or whatever and they round up and they basically buy from the auction. And you know there's a lot of people who have done investigating into that. That says, you know, all you're doing is number one you're driving up the prices of the auction, you're making the auction people and you're funding the process. They don't need to send them off to Mexico to turn them into meat because you're buying them all. But at the same time it's like when you see the condition of the animals and the lives that they're living, you can see I don't know, I don't even think we're going to solve that issue. No, no, yeah, but it, yeah, but it's certainly you know it is certainly something to think about as to how much you know.

Amy Castro: 33:46

are you really helping or hurting the process? But I used to volunteer. They had an application. I had them make it longer than it was. It was one page and it didn't matter that I made it longer because nobody ever looked at it. So if you filled it out, I mean there were literally applications that I was like this person is 14. They asked for the driver's license information or the date of birth, and so obviously that's not good. But I also think at the other end of the extreme when you make it so hard for people to adopt, like you want to see under their bed and everything else, and it's like okay, no wonder you're always full and no wonder you're never taking anything new and no wonder that dog's been in your program for eight years. Because, come on now, are you a hoarder or are you a rescue Like? So let's unpack that a little bit. As far as the, what are your thoughts on adopter criteria or matching pets to adopters Like? What kind of things do you think are important to take into consideration?

Daio Floyd: 35:19

Yeah, so the reality is all. All adoption processes can fail, Unfortunately we've seen it, you know we've seen where you do a home check for two months, you bring the dog over in advance for two weeks and work with the family and they still. It just doesn't work out Right. So I think a lot of it and and two is some of this can't even be put on the shelter or the rescue, because a lot of it is also based on being a doctor and how real they're being with themselves and they lie.

Amy Castro: 35:49

They totally lie, 100%. Well, that's why they're being with themselves. That's right.

Amy Castro: 35:55

Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right, there is, there is. There are some that are just like, well, like I've had people flat out tell me well, I realized my other four cats go outside, but I promise I'll keep this one in. It's like, no, you're not gonna, you're not gonna, it's not going to happen. You think you might? And the first time you have to actually scoop a litter box that you've never had to do, or it craps on your bathroom floor rug, you're going to be like, yeah, you're going outside, or all my other cats are declawed, but I won't declaw this one.

Daio Floyd: 36:22

I don't believe you. Yeah, I don't believe you, I'm sorry. And you can't say I don't believe you.

Amy Castro: 36:26

You're just like. I'm sorry, but you know that's yeah, this is. This is what you put on your application, so I have to, I have to go by this. This is our criteria.

Daio Floyd: 36:34

Yeah and that right, because for me, with dogs, right. If you have another dog and you have to bring your other dog to meet our dog before we can, you know, proceed with this process. And if you come up and your dog is completely out of control and barking and crazy and you know you can't even get out of the car, not to say that that makes you a bad person.

Daio Floyd: 36:55

But you may need to have a little bit more of a handle on your pet that you have currently before you add another one to the mix especially a working dog, that needs boundaries and discipline, and you know guidelines exactly but I do feel like with rescue, we kind of we we run into an issue, because I think previously we definitely started this trend of thinking that, you know, rescue is the the like, rescue is sainthood, rescue is the end all be all of making you a good person, and so a lot of people now try to and I'm not saying that that's not completely true, but now a lot of people they try to use it as something to make themselves feel good.

Daio Floyd: 37:36

And so, during COVID especially, I feel like we saw a lot of people who were like I need to give my life meaning, I'm stressed, I need to save something, I need to feel like a good person.

Daio Floyd: 37:43

And so then they use rescue as that and once once, once that goes away, they're left with this animal that they haven't really bonded with yeah, or maybe they have, but they still don't know how to care for it, or they're overwhelmed by it. And then we have issues, yeah, and I think that that's something that as adopters, as as rescue people, we need to be aware of, because I've had people come in and they're like, yeah, I, you know, I wanted to do this meeting, I've applied, our dog just died two months ago and I just picked up his ashes this morning. You are not a mildly fit to be doing this process right now because you are, you're going through and we have to be transparent enough that, even though we want that, that happy ending for this particular dog, they may not be ready, they may need to come back in a week, they may need to come back in a month, and it's a tough thing to put on yourself as the head of a program, but that is something that we have to be aware of.

Amy Castro: 38:34

Yeah, I don't think we are super, super strict, but obviously we do have certain things that are deal breakers. Right, I mean we want to go for fit, but then there are certain things that are deal breakers, and I mean I mentioned the declawing.

Amy Castro: 38:45

that's a deal breaker, you know that's a deal breaker for me and I will free up, tell people you know I declawed my cat and and it was the worst thing that I ever did and I would never do. It's kind of gotten to the point where, because people will try to circumvent whatever your reason is, like I literally just want yeah they just want it.

Amy Castro: 39:09

They want the animal. I want, I want, I want. I've gotten to the point where I won't tell people why they weren't accepted and we kind of hope they don't ask. You know, we start with that. It's like OK, okay, we found it's not a fit, please move on and look for an animal elsewhere.

Amy Castro: 39:23

And then if they push, push, push, then I'll get on the phone with them and I'll say hey, listen, I'm sure you're a lovely person, we have certain things that are deal breakers and unfortunately, you fell under one of those umbrellas. And then, well, of course, what is it? What did I do? And it's like you know what, no matter what I say, it's not going to make any difference because we've already made the decision and, quite frankly, it's like once we revealed to you, this is the reason.

Amy Castro: 39:51

Every time I've had this conversation in the last 10 years, people try to backtrack on on what they, on what they're saying. Like, you know, you tell them. Yeah, I'll just flat out tell you, and so it's just easier for both of us to just move on. Some people are like, okay, there was another time where I had a young woman that showed up to pick up two cats, two cats she adopted. She showed up on a scooter in a rainstorm and she drove over an hour away, you know, at scooter speed to pick up two cats a kitten and an adult cat and was going to put them in a backpack on her scooter and drive them down the freeway to bring them home. And I was like, yeah, no, that's not going to work, we'll have to figure out something else. But you know I hate to send you home, but no, you cannot take these cats today, or at least get an Uber, I mean wow yeah.

Amy Castro: 40:44

But the point is that she didn't think to take an Uber or borrow somebody's car. And she told me, when I said, something like do you have a car? No, I don't have a car. But you know, can you borrow your mom's car? No, you know my mom's at work, I can't borrow her. Well then, I kid you not.

Amy Castro: 40:59

An hour later and this is a grown woman, this wasn't like a 15-year-old that I was adopting to. This was like a 25, 26-year-old woman, her mom's calling me, wanting to know why I won't let her have the cat and that she will let her borrow the car. And I was like the old me would have over here on a scooter in the rain and was going to put two cats, who didn't really know each other super well, in a backpack and ride all the way back to Pearland with them, over an hour away in the rain. To me, that shows that your daughter's judgment needs a little more maturing and I don't feel comfortable, whether she can bar your car down the road or not, that she's going to make good judgment decisions let's say, in an emergency situation, and so we are not going to move forward with an adoption for your daughter at this time.

Daio Floyd: 41:52

And that's the issue, because it will show in the final moment a lot of times too. And then we're already so committed to okay, we accepted a new animal coming in because this one's going to go, and we already set them up with this household and they got their bath and everything's ready to go. And then the person starts getting a little cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs and you're struggling because you're like I want this for this animal so hard. I think rescuers, especially they, need to listen to their inner voice Because you know, you feel something a little weird where you're like they were too, they were too eager, it was too like they're just not being clear, they're not being realistic, they're just so everything's perfect.

Amy Castro: 42:27

Oh my God, yeah, it's okay, yeah, and you can tell a lot of times, like the ones that show up and they, they came to see a dog or no, they came to see a cat and then they want to adopt the blind pit bull and it's like, well, hold on a minute here. I mean that's, that's a little bit of a shift in uh it's like what do you really want?

Daio Floyd: 42:45

Yeah, what is your goal?

Amy Castro: 42:47

Yeah, yeah, we don't do home visits. Well, we home visit you from Google earth and we make sure that you do have you know certain things. Yeah, and we call your vet and you know I'm not going to ask for a personal reference, because you're going to pick a friend and they're going to tell you say you're awesome, you know, and there's. You're surprised how many things you can see from google earth about somebody's house or their yard, or you know how many dog houses they have out back with, with the circles going around them because they were chained out, you know stuff like that.

Amy Castro: 43:17

But what do you think is like over the top? You know, do you think there are some things where it's like rescues you. You're really hurting yourself by doing this.

Daio Floyd: 43:25

We're not allowing that I think it depends on the animal you're adopting out, right? Yeah, because sometimes if you have a blind pitbull who is cool with everything and just wants to take naps, then, yeah, I mean you can do a home visit, but she's just gonna take a nap. So at a certain point it's like you know, we're talking about the seniors who are literally just looking for a place to lay and the only thing you have to tell them is hey, you know, don't startle them when you wake them up, or something like that.

Daio Floyd: 43:52

Or you know like when things are that simple. Yeah, I don't know that the super extensive home visit after the FaceTime one is going to tell you so much more about this person. But, like we said earlier, when it comes to a young working dog who needs a lot of training and is going to need a lot of follow-up, going through their household and seeing how things hold up, they got to work out. The waitress is going to freak out. You know those kinds of things, learning that about people. I do think that can be integral.

Daio Floyd: 44:21

So it really depends on the animal and it also depends on the people Sometimes. If they're not willing to go through a whole process, then they may not be patient enough to adopt a complicated dog. That's just the reality, right. So you got to kind of go off of what you have. You got to go off of what you have, and if they live super far away and your volunteers aren't able to make it out there or whatever the situation may be, then they may not be the adopters for your programs. It's tough because there's there's so many blanket statements as far as things that make a rescue a good facility and things that make somewhere a good rescue, but it's also case by case basis, right. So even the complaints that people will have about taking rescues of oh, they don't read our applications quick enough and they don't get back to us and they're charged too much, and all those things are case by case, because you don't know how much they put into that dog, you don't know how much they've been working with this animal.

Amy Castro: 45:09

So I think those are you don't realize that they're all volunteer run and they have three other jobs to do, exactly, or they've had or they're in holiday season. Yeah, I'm going to be a lot quicker to get back on an application for Sassy than I am for a Siamese kitten that has 75 applications. I mean, we're going to get back to them, but we're working our way through and we're going to cherry pick it. It's not going to be necessarily just first come, first serve.

Amy Castro: 45:35

It's going to be you know it's going to be, I'm going to read through all of these things and then I'm going to try to get this person in to meet the animal and kind of go from there because they seem like the best fit. And you know, and I said that about the home visits, but that's not really true, because I did have a dog that was like a massive. It was a little dog friendly dog. We did the meet and greet with the other dog, it was all fine. But I did go to the house and it was almost like a courtesy, like hey, do you want me to come and check out? Because I knew the dog was an escape artist.

Amy Castro: 46:02

And they're like our yard has a six foot fence and it's like, no, you don't understand the things that this dog has gotten out of. Yeah, this dog is a skilled. I turn myself sideways, you know, exhale really, you know as far as I can go and squeeze myself down to being two inches wide and I'm under a crack under the fence. And, sure enough, we walked around the fence and we tested the dog and she was, you know, heading under the fence and she's like, oh, my God, I'm so glad you did this because I wouldn't have wanted to lose her, and so you know we'll do that.

Amy Castro: 46:31

But I think you made a really good point is that, yes, we can have our criteria and our ideals, but I think you know, taking into consideration who is the human being, what is their situation matched with the animal, that we may be able to loosen things a little bit or tighten things a little bit.

Daio Floyd: 46:47

There's a big thing, too, that we're seeing in rescue as far as people getting rid of animals, specifically dogs, when they have a baby, so when we're adopting to people who are in their early twenties, people who just graduated from college, right, there is this expectation that they're young, they're active, they're going to be the perfect fit and within the next five or so years, their life changes drastically. So, and then the facility ends up with the dog again, or we see our own dog posted on Facebook somewhere and we're like what the hell, let me get my animal back, right? So I think part of doing your due diligence with that kind of thing is being prepared to sit through and really talk with the person about okay, where do you see your life going in the next couple of years?

Amy Castro: 47:26

How fertile are you?

Daio Floyd: 47:30

In that future, you know, because that's an important thing and we don't know, we don't know how life is going to go. But I think that is a key to being, you know, transparent about what you expect to happen going forward and how you see this animal fitting in.

Amy Castro: 47:47

Yeah, that's a good point. My daughter accuses me of being an ageist because I have challenges with adopting people who are really young. As a matter of fact, I think we've bumped our application, at least for many of the animals, to 25. And part of it is the stability Like yeah, great, your roommate in college may be totally okay with you having a cat, and then you move in with your boyfriend, girlfriend or whoever and that person's allergic and the next thing you know you're dumping the cat. I mean people. They think they're not going to do it, but they're going to choose that significant other over their pet A huge percentage of the time. And you're right, the whole baby thing is definitely an issue. I mean, because what people and for those of you who are listening who are like I would never give you know I have three kids and I wouldn't, didn't give up my pets. You're not taking the calls that we're taking every single day from people who I just had one yesterday, my daughter had this cat.

Amy Castro: 48:35

Now she's got a one-year-old and the cat's starting to act squirrely and so she's wanting to get rid of it. It's like she doesn't want to work on it, she doesn't want to try to fix it. It's this immediate me. My child is in danger, and rightfully so. You should protect your child, but it's like maybe adopting a pet a year before you have or when you're pregnant might not be the best time to do that?

Daio Floyd: 48:55

And then on the go ahead. I mean, I've seen rescues who will adopt out a dog who, oh yeah, he doesn't like men. Oh, that's fine, I just live by myself, or it should be in my mom, okay, great. And then eventually you get a boyfriend, eventually, you want to get married. What is that dog doing? Yeah, you know, and we told you that this was clearly the situation, and people just aren't prepped for that change.

Amy Castro: 49:18

Yeah, you know other end of the spectrum.

Amy Castro: 49:21

you know you have the 79 year old and we've had like five or six wants a puppy or a kitten, and it's like it's not even just about although it's hugely about the fact that that you know.

Amy Castro: 49:34

I don't know about the longevity in your family, but the odds are. And again, because we get the calls every single day Grandma died, mom died, and oh, by the way, when the relatives say they'll take your pet, you know you can talk to any rescuer, any shelter worker. They're coming from the funeral dropping your pet off. Not all of them, you know, but it happens a lot. So you know it's outliving the pet and what's actually going to happen to it. But then, even with an older person, kittens will climb your leg and when you're older, I mean, and you have thin skin, you're going to get torn up and then you're going to and what will inevitably happen is you will put up with it until the animal is just old enough to make it harder for me to adopt it back out to somebody else. It's like now it's eight months old and it's a real problem because you know so Absolutely.

Daio Floyd: 50:23

Even.

Daio Floyd: 50:24

It kills me, with older people saying, oh, I want a smaller dog because it's more manageable, but I want it to be young because I and it's always the excuse of well, our last dog just passed and so I don't want to feel that again. But the problem is, you'll get a younger dog, it's not manageable, it's small, you still have to bend all the way over to put the leash on, you have to get all the way down there to do stuff with it, and if you're not physically capable of doing that, what ends up happening is that the animal, specifically dogs, end up losing a quality of life, right. So that's when we get dogs who are pee, pad trained and never let outside. And for me, I was in Journey City for a while and training in New York, and so I experienced this a lot where there were dogs who were essentially living like indoor cats, and that does not work for Tina. It just it just doesn't. And so then, especially in New York, you finally take them outside. There's various cars, there's buses there's a ton of people.

Daio Floyd: 51:14

There's a ton of other dogs. They're an anxiety mess right, and you set them up for a terrible foundation just because you couldn't deal with the emotional stress of possibly losing another pet, when, in reality, if you would have had a calm, older dog who was maybe a little bit larger, that would have been everything you needed. So it's yeah, it's again, it's a mental game for the human side of the process.

Amy Castro: 51:37

A lot of the times that we're fighting against rescuers yeah, yeah, and you know when I think I would appeal to potential adopters. I mean, I want a lot of things. I saw a video of a pig, the lady's walking out to her pig pen, Like I have this old pillow. I'm going to give it to his name Wasn't pork chop, I forget what it was, but it was a cute. It was a cute, cute name. And she gave him the pillow and he was so cute and he cuddled down on the pillow and he laid his little head on. I was like I want a pig.

Amy Castro: 52:08

Now I'm suddenly, you know, and it's like you need to take a step back from what you want and really investigate what that animal needs and be, like you said, be real with yourself as to whether you can actually provide that for them, Because even if it's seemingly content, you know, our, we, we should never as a family.

Amy Castro: 52:19

We got from a breeder because I had worked for a veterinarian for eight years and I always wanted a Doberman Pinscher, because they're magnificent animals and he was a magnificent animal, you know, and he was a wonderful dog, but I don't think that we were like on a scale of zero to 10 as far as us being a good home for him I would say we were probably a seven and it was the. It was the activity piece. You know he did not get the activity and enrichment because we're not. All of us are fat, but I'm fat, I'm a couch potato. I'm not going to take this dog for a run every day and put him through his paces. I finally did get a bike attachment and that helped a lot, but it's like he would have probably been better suited with a much more active person or family and involved in a working sport or something like. You know, it's something like that. Just, they need more than just, than a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel High activity animals, especially dogs.

Daio Floyd: 53:16

The issue as far as the knowledge coming from rescue uh, that that is the type of activity that certain breeds need is also a problem, right, yeah, because we can say, oh yeah, the high tending, they breed dog for runs. But you get a herding dog breed, it doesn't know you, you go on runs, it's hurting you. Yeah, it's not. That's not the kind of activity that that specific dog needs. Right, it needs hunting games and hurting games. It needs to use its brain, it needs to stalk. So if you don't, if we're just saying, yeah, high activity, they're young, they're active, that's enough. It's about the type of activity. And so that's why working with the behaviorless, working with the trainer from the time the animal goes home, is so integral.

Daio Floyd: 53:56

Because a lot of people don't even know and this sounds weird, but as a trainer I've experienced this a lot is a lot of people don't know how to play with their dogs.

Daio Floyd: 54:04

They will kind of whip the leash around and try to pull the dog to them, but the dog's not free and having a lot of spark, right. So you have to find a way to interact with your dog so the dog is equally enjoying the time If you're just the one using the baby voice and jumping around and the dog's not mimicking that, then y'all both aren't having as much fun, yeah. So when it comes to adopting a dog, when it comes to playing with the dog, you have to make sure that you guys are on the same vibe. And so then, when we look at adopters and we see how they interact with this animal, we have to see, okay, is this dog comfortable? Is this dog freed up? Is this dog seeming normal? And then we can say, okay, I could see this animal in this person's home.

Daio Floyd: 54:41

Yeah, but until we can see that and of course, in in introductory things that's hard to see because some dogs aren't comfortable, but as much as we can, that that is an important thing to keep an eye out for. You know, how do you interact with this?

Amy Castro: 54:53

yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Uh, so we've we've had two great pyrenees come through the program. That was a house full just not they weren't at the same time. But holy moly, those dogs are huge especially indoors.

Amy Castro: 55:04

And to the point, we adopted one to a person that had a Great Pyrenees that had passed away, like two years before. And when you were talking about people who want to get something like get a puppy, because that same dog that they had had passed away, I guarantee you've forgotten what it's like to have a younger puppy by the time your dog's 14 or 16 years old. What you remember about the dog is the last two years or three years behavior, not the early behavior. So keep that in mind. And then the other one was a person and she still has the dog.

Amy Castro: 55:35

She's a lovely adopter, she's adapted, but it was interesting because she fostered the dog at first, because she was used to having really big dogs and I can't remember what she had. Let's just say she had Great Danes. So she adopts this Great Pyrenees. And then she's like she doesn't listen to me and I'm like, yeah, that's what they do. They're not supposed to listen to you, they're independent. She likes to wander off and wander off the property. It's like, yeah, that's what they do. If we would do some investigating into these breeds and, you know, wander off the property. It's like, yeah, that's what they do. That's you know if you did, you know, if we would do some investigating into these breeds before we adopt them assuming we know what they are, that's they would have been bred for hundreds of years to wander large pieces of territory. Anyway, so do and have a job and protect.

Daio Floyd: 56:17

Yeah exactly.

Amy Castro: 56:18

So you know, we definitely need to do our homework a little bit better on these animals.

Daio Floyd: 56:21

And even a breed experience. These days and I don't want to fault refuse, because I know a lot of it is about just general knowledge, public knowledge, right, but a lot of times we'll say, oh yeah, purebred German Shepherd or purebred this or purebred that, and someone who works with purebred German Shepherd, I'm looking at that and I'm like there is no way that is not mixed with 27 other things who are y'all lying to? And then someone will come in and apply and say, oh great, you have German Shepherd experience. And then they take the dog home and it's exhibiting a whole bunch of behaviors that they've never experienced before with their first German Shepherd. Mind you, no dog is the same anyway. But the breed experience at this point it almost doesn't even matter because each dog is on their own case by case basis. As far as the mixes that are happening, as far as the different types of trauma that we're experiencing in rescue, a lot now, yeah, um, it's all it's so, it's so nuanced, yeah, so there's, there's a lot going on there yeah, you know it's interesting.

Amy Castro: 57:16

um, and then I want to wrap this up because we're starting to run out of time and I do want to talk briefly about volunteers, but we don't do a lot of dogs, but very often we have DNA tested dogs for certain things. So, just as an example, I had a lot of times anything that is black, solid black, gets labeled a black lab, black lab mix, and it's like I don't think so, not with that snout, and so we had this puppy come into the program and you tell me what you think she was. She was always alert, always attentive, always watching my face, very assertive, very go at it. So what would you guess? She might have? Long snout, very shepherdy looking, but not a shepherd gosh.

Daio Floyd: 57:59

I mean, I don't know, it could be a Dutchie, it could be, it could be a Malinois. Ding ding, ding, ding ding.

Amy Castro: 58:07

Yeah. So it's like I had it in my head that this dog has Malinois in her and and and she's not going to just be for everybody. And everybody kind of told me I was not. So I was like I'm going to, yeah, lab mix, right.

Amy Castro: 58:20

So I DNA tested her and she turned out to be, like I don't know, 75 or 80% mal and it's like, and it was good that I did that because the person who had expressed interest in adopting her, who was nicely enough willing to wait until that DNA I had already sent it out, but she knew herself well enough to know that, based on the behaviors the dog was already exhibiting, that much Malinois was going to be more than she was ready, because that ain't a lab, it's a completely different piece.

Amy Castro: 58:46

And I know we can't do that with everybody, but paying attention to the behavior was just as important. I mean, even if I hadn't DNA tested it, I knew that dog was going to need a certain level of not laid back behavior. She needed something to do laid back behavior, I guess it was good.

Daio Floyd: 59:00

She needed something to do and she was like I said, she was the most alert puppy that I've ever seen, just the way that she, she'd be walking alongside you, almost healing and looking up at your face and it's like wow, yeah, but that's part of the experience, because a lot of people who are starting out in rescue because unfortunately rescuers burn out because it is so much work, it is so overwhelming, yep, and if they don't have that experience then they wouldn't know to cue into something like that and they say that send that lab mix home and then wonder why it's getting returned six, seven times.

Amy Castro: 59:30

Well, yeah, and and again. It'll be when she's 10 months, a year and a half, when she gets really out of hand and then you, you know You've got a problem. Not as cute, not as cute, yeah Right, all right, let's move on to our. We'll make this our last, uh, last subject for for rescues, talking about volunteers and uh and getting people involved. So do you have volunteers for your rescue or you're pretty much do your own thing, cause you're the professional there?

Daio Floyd: 59:56

Yeah, so I've had other trainers who have volunteered to help me, but I don't necessarily do public volunteers just because there is a lot of overhead and it's a lot of work for me because you have to train them to do everything, and facilities that do have volunteers. I think it's amazing and I think there are ways to use volunteers. That is really beneficial, right? So, like we talked about earlier, when a dog goes out for a walk, they get consistency. They see the same volunteer every time, so then they start bonding with that person and then maybe that's the person who's going to take lessons with the dog, and so then the dog knows okay, this is my person. And so then when the dog goes to do meet and greet, they're comfortable because they're with their person, that they're with all the time, and then the person who's adopting can truly see the animal, and I think that's a great process. I also think you know, every now and then you'll have volunteers who are photographers, who take really great pictures of animals, or volunteers who are trained in media and marketing, and I think that's great because then you get more interest on your pages and stuff, and so those are great ways to use the assistance and the free help yeah, those are great ways to use the assistance and the free help, yeah. But volunteering in itself is hard because it requires the facility. The person in charge, whoever it's going to fall back on, has to be responsible for doing the knowledge. They have to be responsible for spreading the knowledge.

Daio Floyd: 1:01:17

I don't know if this is a thing near you, but for me, for the holidays, it's really common. In my area they have a thing where rescues, where you can take home a dog for the holidays right, or take home an animal for the holidays, and in theory that sounds awesome because we're like we don't want our shelters to be built for Christmas and that's a great concept. But unfortunately, a lot of these animals thrive on consistency, right, and in a shelter, their food comes down at the same time every day. They go on their walk, usually around the same time every weekend right, they know when stuff is happening. So when you take a new dog home and most people haven't been trained enough to know, hey, maybe I shouldn't have my Christmas party when I just brought a dog two days ago, or it's the opposite they're throwing the Christmas party because they want everyone to see how cute their new foster dog is right, and so it sets up the animal for stress, for being overwhelmed for all these problems.

Daio Floyd: 1:02:05

And so that's where, again, when you're doing volunteers, you got to be really, really smart about the people who are volunteering, and you know it might take time, it might be a really time-consuming process, but everyone can't have the same get the same favor right off the bat. You know some people who have shown you consistently that they're working, that they understand how animals work. Those may be the people who can take dogs home, versus we just need to empty for the holidays. That's not always going to be the best fit for the dog, so then, god forbid, they have an accident at that Christmas party and now the dog has to be on a bike lift versus. You would have just kept the dog from a situation where it was overwhelmed. They could have had a fruitful future.

Amy Castro: 1:02:41

So yeah, that's such a such a good point. I think I have learned over the years it's less about how much you love animals and more about how much you understand animals and care about what's best for them.

Amy Castro: 1:02:53

Because, like you said, the whole thing about taking things like and we I had this happen the other day. It wasn't a holiday thing, but we do get the same thing at the holiday it's like, oh, I felt so bad for that cat that's in that cage at the pet store, Can I just take it home? And it's like, well, first of all, like you said, the change, the back and forth, are you going to bring it up here anytime somebody wants to come and see it? Are you going to let that person come to your house to see it? Are you going to provide consistency in their diet or whatever else that you're? You know that you're doing and I think, yeah, we need to be a little bit smarter with some of those programs and I think people try so hard to humanize animals that they're actually do them a huge disservice by not understanding who they are as animals and what they actually need. They don't need to be at your Christmas party.

Amy Castro: 1:03:36

They don't even know it's Christmas. They don't care.

Daio Floyd: 1:03:39

They don't care.

Amy Castro: 1:03:40

They don't know, they don't care if they get a Christmas stocking Now. You know, if you bring toys, that's always good. But you know you're you're projecting so much on these animals and then you're expecting them to behave accordingly, as if they should be grateful that you brought them home for Christmas, when they eat all the hors d'oeuvres off the tray and then puke on your new carpet, kind of thing, kind of thing.

Amy Castro: 1:03:58

So some of the things that I have kind of learned, as far as you know, volunteer, recruitment and retention as much as you possibly can, to be very realistic, you know, provide a positive balance, but also be very realistic in what it's like to volunteer. And I haven't done this, to be perfectly honest, although I've kind of implied this is implying a certain level of commitment. Because what I find is that people like the idea of volunteering but the reality, no matter how much you try to tell them that like this is what it's like you're going to go to this pet store, you're going to get there at 8 in the morning, we clean the cages, we pet the cats and then we leave, and if you want to stay longer and sit in the chair and play with them some more, you're welcome.

Amy Castro: 1:04:41

But the priority is cleaning, sanitization cleaning.

Daio Floyd: 1:04:45

Yeah, yeah, early in the morning.

Amy Castro: 1:04:47

And you know it quickly becomes not fun, right, and so therefore I got the T-shirt. I'm good and I'm not really ready to do much else. I mean, I find that very few people are ready to dive head in to all the muck. Put out a thing for an animal with ringworm and see how many volunteers, you get to take that.

Daio Floyd: 1:05:04

That's why, when you asked about strategies for keeping volunteers engaged. One of the things that really stood out to me that I had seen was when they are doing the training themselves, when they are going through processes with the animal and they're seeing the results and they kind of feel like a trainer themselves. They're like, oh, wow, oh, look at this, like this dog is making so much progress and having so much more adoptable versus just the going home. Yeah, he's at my house. Yeah, he's a nice dog. Yeah, he still pulls on the leash, right, you know, he's a good boy kind of thing. When they see that progress, they're so invested and then they're posting about more and they're telling their friends more. So they're like look how great he's doing and the friends can see the progress and everyone's more invested and it creates more of a community for this animal and yeah, you will find out, that does keep people engaged.

Daio Floyd: 1:05:48

The other thing I will say too for rescuers, for volunteers I think rescuers can maybe do a better job of having the space for volunteers. But when we're seeing so much destruction I mean genuinely, I mean we're seeing horrifying cases of animals coming in emaciated and hurt and just destroyed when we're seeing all of that, it helps to be really aware of your mental health, and I know we think, well, I just have to pile through and I just have to do everything I need to do to make sure that I'm taking care of these animals. But you are sometimes not even in a place where you can do your best as far as taking care of them If your mental health is not clear. And for me, coming from a sport dog background, that's something that my father instilled in me at a very young age. Right, because if you're training and you know you're not biting something or biting a person and your mind isn't right, then something's going to mess up and it's going to be a big mess up, right? So we have to be super, super aware and super clear on on what our intention is.

Daio Floyd: 1:06:47

That I think when, again, because we're not animal behaviorists or trainers or vets when we don't have that understanding of how to deal with our emotions or how to deal with our, our, our, our feelings towards the things that we're seeing, it harms our ability to actually help the animals. Right, because we just look at them as the sad thing and and you know, you'll see on Facebook all the comments oh poor baby, oh so sad, oh terrible. How could someone do this? Blah, blah, blah, and no one's donating money, they're just keeps twirling right. So so there's something there as far as being able to take care of your own mental health. I've even seen people leave a lot of rescue facebook groups and stuff because there's like I can't take how fabulous all the time like this is too much. I can't be a part of this group and that's what we think.

Amy Castro: 1:07:34

I've cut a lot of the things out that I see, because it's like everything's a red alert, everything's gonna die tomorrow, and it's like, yeah, I realize that, but I can't do anything about it. So I don't necessarily I can't do everything about it. Let's put it that way, and I mean realistically, we're oversaturated with that kind of stuff.

Daio Floyd: 1:07:48

We see war, we see people in this kind of predicament. So you know, unfortunately we're kind of desensitized mentally to those sort of things. So, yeah, being as far as you know, rescue people, the best thing you can do is take care of yourself, take care of your mental health, take care of your heart to make sure that you are able to continue to fight another day.

Amy Castro: 1:08:08

Yeah, yeah that's a good point. That's a good point and you're right. You know, as far as the messaging that we're putting out, you know, is it always red alert, sos, exclamation points, and, you know, dire and it may be, but at the same time people can only take so much of that before they want to back away from it. A couple other quick points I want to make, too, about volunteers, one of the some things that we found helpful and, if you're with a rescue organization, something to think about if you haven't already, maybe you're way ahead of me but having job descriptions for different jobs, so people know what they're getting themselves into. Because if your application is just about being a volunteer and do a volunteer and you know, do you like dogs, do you like cats, what days are you available, and that's kind of it, it's like you know what are you looking to do and what are the opportunities.

Amy Castro: 1:08:52

And I think also one of the things that we've done as much as we possibly can is to create opportunities.

Amy Castro: 1:08:58

Not that there wasn't stuff that wasn't needed, because you know it's not like made up, create, but you know, for example, we've got a volunteer who specifically screens the adoption applications and does the vet checks.

Amy Castro: 1:09:09

We've got another person who does follow up on spay and neuters, because we sometimes adopt out pets that are too young to be spayed and neutered. We've got somebody that does that. We've got another person who screens and just kind of is the initial point of contact with the volunteer applications, making sure that she's looking at the applications when they come in, sending out a welcome note and doing those initial things but getting them signed up for their training and the links to the training. And then once they get that, then we do the hands-on stuff from there. So, cause not everybody is going to, I mean I'll be perfectly honest when I volunteered at the animal shelter for 10 years, I first started off walking dogs and then I realized these guys are assholes. Sorry, it's like you know. I mean I'm yeah, I'm a late 40s woman at that time and you know you've got a lot of big, long, toenailed out of control dogs with shit on their feet and I realized that.

Amy Castro: 1:09:59

I really didn't enjoy that, yeah.

Amy Castro: 1:10:01

So you know, and when we used to tell volunteers is if you don't feel comfortable taking something out, don't feel obligated to take everything out. Better that five out of 10 get taken out than for you to stop coming. You know, take out what you're comfortable or do what you're comfortable. And so you know, I moved on to doing more training. I moved on to helping with the fearful dogs, because that's just a sweet spot for me, even with the cats, you know, cats are easy, right, but I don't want to go scoop the cat boxes. I'd rather answer the phone and answer the questions and encourage people to keep their pets and not bring them to us to surrender, because that's my sweet spot with my communication expertise. So look for opportunities to keep your, especially if you have somebody that signs up to be a volunteer. They come once or twice and then it's like, oh, I noticed that person hasn't signed up for the pooper scooping schedule this week.

Amy Castro: 1:10:46

It's like maybe there's a reason for that and it's probably not just because they're busy. So, and I've done follow up it's like check in on people and let them know that you care and not even necessarily like we care. We want you back, but you know, hadn't seen you, are you?

Daio Floyd: 1:11:00

OK, kind of thing.

Amy Castro: 1:11:02

The other thing I'll say.

Amy Castro: 1:11:02

Last point is is providing support. Establish very clearly up front what support you're going to provide to your volunteers Most of our volunteers, I consider and I've had somebody just tell me this the other day she didn't realize how lucky she was, because if she said she was out of something, I would drive 30 minutes to her house because pretty much all my volunteers are at least there and it would be, or Amazon would have it on her porch the next day, and whether it was a necessity or it was like I'd really like to have this for my kittens, or you know whatever here, you know it's yours because we have the finances to do that. The other thing is you know you decide, you decide to take a trip or you God forbid, one of your family members gets ill and you've got to leave part of our head counting and strategizing as far as what we can have in the system includes every single one of our fosters, and this is going to change as of next year, but for now it's been every single one of our fosters.

Amy Castro: 1:11:53

If they have to return the animal like that, we have a spot for it and not everybody has that, and so I think it's really important to be very, very clear with your volunteers up front. And, like I said, we're changing that for next year. Next year we're going to be much more foster based and if you take something into your house, I'm not guaranteeing that I can get out of there at a minute's notice, you know. And so, being very clear with that expectation, because I had a volunteer who recently she was, she's, very into little baby kittens and we don't have baby kittens right now. So I said, hey, go volunteer with this group.

Amy Castro: 1:12:23

They're a good group. Well, they are a good group, but they expect you to be really independent. You're out of food. Most of our volunteers provide that. It's like she didn't know that. She's used to me, amy Castro, delivering everything door to door, and so it's important to make sure that that's very, very clear to your volunteers what those expectations are, because and I think, providing as much of that like I don't think I think your volunteers are giving their time, so you should be providing the resources, but not everybody can do that, so just at least be honest with them about it before they take the animal Right.

Daio Floyd: 1:12:53

Right, I think there are very good ways to volunteer that even if you can't provide things, because I've seen a lot of, at least lately, I've seen a couple of rescues who have now started using like very younger volunteers to uh do their social media and pg and that has helped tremendously because their content has gotten so much better. It's, it's funny, it's like okay, you're in bubbles and we threw a bubble party for bubbles, and bubbles is like a 50 pound pit bull who's huge and super fat, but it's like it's cute, you know, and people engage with that, versus seeing the the you know decrepit animal falling apart that we're used to all the time, all the red alert notices. So I think there's a way to use your volunteers. I think being the person in charge has to be really smart and kind of savvy with how they move things around, but there is a way to get, even with a few volunteers, to get more traction and gain that interest even with a few volunteers to get more traction and gain that interest.

Amy Castro: 1:13:51

All right, so any kind of final year-end reflections on 24 that people should be looking at to assess their programs and maybe make them better?

Daio Floyd: 1:13:55

One of my big things, I would say, is measure your progress by how many adoptions you have that are still currently adopted. Right, Because a lot of times I think we look at the process of we got you know however many dogs adopted this year. That's great, and 13 of them will return. So, realistically, look at those issues where dogs were returned or where things didn't work out or where people were experiencing a lot of adopters remorse in those first couple of weeks. Look at those situations and work through okay, how you could have helped them more or how you could have made this process easier for yourself, and that is where you'll find the ways to better your program. I think that's the key and a lot of times we don't like to dwell on those situations. It's sometimes those are the most important ones.

Amy Castro: 1:14:37

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean we didn't even get all into the whole post-adoption support, but one of our things that we've always fallen back on has been the lifetime return but I don't want you to return. So it's like I always put it out there. You know you've got my direct number. Call me. Don't wait until something becomes a big problem. If it's a little problem or you're even questioning something, call me and I spend no-transcript, gave them a folder or I sent them an email afterwards it's like you know the next thing.

Amy Castro: 1:15:16

You know they're like she's crapping on my bed, it you know. So, yeah, do do that follow up. And you know, sometimes we don't want to know, but you really you really need to have that kind of a follow-up program and just listen, yes, without being, without being, confrontational.

Daio Floyd: 1:15:35

Just listen Because a lot of rescue is in fighting and bickering and we don't. We don't need that, you know.

Amy Castro: 1:15:40

Yeah, and I think you know we spend a lot of our work in rescue, basically judging and evaluating other people's fitness to take on pets, and I think we can evaluate without being judgy and always focusing on it. You know the best needs of that human being and that animal, Not that you know so that one thing's better than another. You've got a better fence, You've got a better house, You've got to drive a better car, whatever it might be. The other thing I would say too, when you're talking about evaluating those numbers, I know one of the things that we reassessed last year is that we kind of always thought, well, if we have the money, I'll just order the cat food. And what I found was if I said, hey, we're raising $100 to buy cat food or whatever the dollar figure was, we had less success than if we said, hey, get us some cat food. And obviously you want to put parameters because you don't want to get garbage.

Amy Castro: 1:16:33

But the other thing I learned too is if you're feeding high dollar cat food, just as an example, or you use high dollar products, don't just put the 50 pound bag of dog food. That's going to cost them $200. Find something else, Find things of various things. If you're going to ask people to donate in kind or smaller bags, like does it matter to you that the cost per pound of the cat food is higher if you get them in small bags? No, it matters to that person that my buying you that bag of cat food cost me $14 versus 60. So look at what was successful and what wasn't and make it easy for people to help you. That will be my last point. Make it easy for people to step up and volunteer, or as easy as possible. Make it easy for them to donate. Don't make them jump through 9,000 hoops to do it because they may not be willing or able to do that.

Daio Floyd: 1:17:20

It also helps, I think, when we talk about partnerships, because for me I was brought into rescue because of someone who I had done sport with, who worked for animal control, and it was kind of a route that way. And a lot of these facilities that do have trainers who are very reputable, who they wouldn't normally be able to afford, are brought in through that way, through friendship or through some kind of connection versus it being. You know, they just reached out to us and sent me an email and asked me to work for free. But there is a way where, okay, so we have these working dog breeds that we don't know how to care for. Maybe we can reach out to a local searching rescue club, or maybe we can reach out to a local service dog club and see if they want to come and eval some of these dogs and see if some of these dogs are a good fit for that.

Amy Castro: 1:18:06

Okay, so any final thoughts, final things that people might want to think about as a year end reflection to make 2025 even better than 2024?.

Daio Floyd: 1:18:12

Oh yeah, my biggest, my biggest takeaway for rescues, for shelters, for adopters, for people who are just on these Facebook pages of dogs wanting to get adopted is center the animal. So if it doesn't serve the animal, move on right. So it doesn't do any benefit to go and just make someone feel terrible for needing to rehome their dog, or terrible for not being able to care for their dog, or terrible for not being able to afford training, or terrible for having to move and leave the country, or whatever the situation may be. It doesn't serve us to go after one rescue because they let a dog escape, or they have to put a dog down because they couldn't handle it, or they put a dog in a bad situation. I'm sure they learned from that experience, short of them doing something that is intentionally harming an animal.

Daio Floyd: 1:18:59

If we are not centering what is going to serve the animal best, what is going to get an animal adopted, what is going to put them in a positive position, then we're not really focused on rescuing. We're focused on seeing the better person, which again ties back to that goal of how rescues want to be perceived or how rescuers want to be perceived personally, right? Instead of talking about what we want for the animal. So if we really are doing our due diligence of looking at animals on a case by case basis and say this is what's best for them, all of that stuff that goes on between people is going to disappear, because that's not really what's most important. So I think I think that's a valid point to be made.

Amy Castro: 1:19:36

Yeah, no, I think that's like the ultimate valid point to be made and I would have nothing to add to that to make that any better. I mean, that's just such. If people didn't hear anything else from this whole episode, that message right there would make such a huge difference for every animal, every rescue, every adopter, every person trying to get help with their pet. It's just such a great point to make. Thank you so much.

Daio Floyd: 1:20:01

Yeah.

Amy Castro: 1:20:02

And Dao, thank you so much for being here. This was a great conversation. I'm so much, yeah, and Dio, thank you so much for being here. This was a great conversation. I'm so glad we were able to get this done. This will be our kind of our last big episode of 2024 before I do my my very scary annual live episode, kind of rehashing our favorite episodes of the year with my best friend Bev so I really appreciate you being here and making the time to share your wisdom and your experience and expertise.

Amy Castro: 1:20:28

Thanks so much.

Daio Floyd: 1:20:30

Thank you. I appreciate you for having me.

Amy Castro: 1:20:32

Awesome, and thank you to everybody who's listening to this episode. Whether you're in rescue, whether you're an adopter, whether you're a just person, a person that loves animals, we appreciate your willingness to hear our experiences, to maybe take our advice and hopefully make 2025 the best year ever for everybody involved in caring for and loving for the animals in our world, and we will see you next week. Thanks for listening to Starlight Pet Talk. Be sure to visit our website at starlightpettalkcom for more resources and be sure to follow this podcast on your favorite podcast app so you'll never miss a show. And hey, if you like this show, text someone right now and say I've got a podcast recommendation. You need to check the show out and tell them to listen and let you know what they think. Don't forget to tune in next week and every week for a brand new episode of Starlight Pet Talk and, if you don't do anything else this week, give your pets a big hug from us.