dental-ish by browngirlrdh
The first black dental podcast mixed with a little something extra. Podcast topics range from family, entrepreneurship, education, to working in the dental industry as black professionals. Brought to you by BrownGirl, RDH.
dental-ish by browngirlrdh
Fast-Tracked Hygienists: The Alabama Program Debate
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
What if you could fast-track your way to becoming a dental hygienist? Join us as we uncover the secrets of the Alabama Dental Hygiene Program (ADHP) with special guests Kara and Erica. Kara dives into the accelerated path dental assistants can take, transforming into hygienists through a unique blend of on-the-job training and an intensive academic program. Erica, with her 25 years of experience, reflects on the hurdles she faced, including significant pay disparities and limitations when moving to a different state.
The episode also tackles the nationwide shortage of dental hygienists, a problem that has only worsened due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Discover the financial and legal complications that arise as dentists increasingly rely on staffing agencies to fill the gap. We also engage in a heated debate about the qualifications necessary for dental hygienists, comparing seasoned professionals to new graduates and those trained through alternative programs, and how these differences impact patient care.
Finally, we delve into the broader issues plaguing dental hygiene education, such as racial disparities and financial challenges. From the high cost of for-profit schools to the systemic barriers faced by students from underserved communities, we explore actionable solutions to create a more inclusive field. Highlighting the significance of maintaining high educational standards, we emphasize the collective goal of providing top-notch patient care. Tune in to learn how we can support and unite the dental hygiene profession for a brighter future.
www.browngirlrdh.org/events
www.browngirlrdh.org/join
Alabama Dental Hygiene Program Discussion
Speaker 1Welcome to Dental-ish season three . Today we have an important subject about Alabama dental hygiene program coming to South Carolina and possibly in other states , and how this is affecting our profession , our actual oral health care patients . All of the above , and we have special guests . We have some dental hygienists on here that practice in Alabama that are familiar with the program and practice in hygienists in Georgia who are going to provide their feedback we're going to be actually tackling you know what the issues are and how you know things can range from zero to a hundred , bad to worse , mad to better . All of that is an array of emotions coming through this podcast . I feel like and it really stemmed from a post that was in Brown Girl RDH , our Facebook group , where hygienists were not so happy to see the transition from dental assistants being able to train under dentists to become dental hygienists , dentists and other professionals saying like , hey , there's different outlooks on here .
Speaker 1These programs have been around for years . They are successful . And are we even addressing the issue ? I'm going to start off with Kara . Kara is very familiar , she's a dental hygienist and she's very familiar with the Alabama Dental Hygiene Program . She's going to educate us on what this is , because I'm not really clear about what requirements they are . As far as South Carolina Dental Hygiene Association is proposing , it's a practice act that's already established in Alabama . It's proposed for South Carolina and we all know once one state gets it , then the other states start hopping aboard . So , kara , I'll let you have the floor .
Speaker 2So in the state of Alabama a dental assistant can work for two years under a dentist and then qualify or be eligible to enter into the ADHP program that program is about usually lasts about 11 months . During that program they go once a month down to Birmingham , to UAB , and they take their courses In between that time . In between those Saturdays they usually do Saturday and Sunday . In between that time where they go for the classes they're also training in the office the doctor has a complete checklist over all the things that they are required to do and also the student knows as well . That's pretty much how the program runs .
Speaker 1A certified dental assistant or someone who went to school first ? What are the requirements before they can do the ADHP ?
Speaker 2program In the state of Alabama . You don't have to be a certified dental assistant . A lot of times they are , though , because they have a good amount of programs here for dental assistants . So , with that being said , usually the certified dental assistants are the ones that are chosen by their dentist to go to those programs .
Speaker 1It's two years . They work for the dentist and then they apply for the program and in 11 months they actually go to the University of Alabama and they train in this program and then after I saw something about a thousand hours I don't know what that was Then they're able to practice dental hygiene . Meaning scaling subgingiallyally . Do SRPs or is it limited , just prophies , do you ?
Speaker 2know no . So throughout the program they are required . I think it's 120 patients that they're supposed to see throughout that span and at each checkpoint they're supposed to have done a certain amount of prophies . They can only do a certain amount of pediatric patients . They are required to do a certain amount of SRPs as well .
Speaker 1Okay , so this is a fast track dental hygiene program targeting dental assistants .
Speaker 3Correct .
Speaker 1Pretty much . I'm taking it as .
Speaker 3All right .
Speaker 1Erica , so you've been actually practicing in the state of Alabama for quite some time now . Can you let us know how many years and you actually went through the program ? Can you tell us your experience ? Have you worked in other states or was it just Alabama ?
Speaker 3So I have been in the field for 25 years and so when I first got into the field I actually first worked in a lab and then I decided to go to school . So I went to college and got a degree in dental assisting and then from there , best track for me was to go through this program that y'all speaking of . From there I have been doing this for 25 years . There's no other states that accept it . So I have a moment in my life that for a couple of years that I did move out of the state and I moved to Georgia and I could not practice in Georgia because of those reasons . So I had to do dental assisting and you know , of course no one , you know , wants to go back to doing something they used to do . But you know that's what I had to do because that was the requirements of of the state , of of Georgia . But I was there for eight years and did that . But I eventually came back to Alabama and I'm back to to doing hygiene now .
Speaker 1What is the pay range for dental system that goes through the ADHP , or are they compensated just like regular dental hygienists ?
Speaker 3Well , it's going to be a variety of ranges Because , just like you know , it's no different from when you go to other states . You have other hygienists . I mean , you have doctors that pay well , you have doctors that don't pay well . It's going to be the same ordeal even in here in Alabama . You have doctors that pay really , really well . Do you have some that don't ?
Speaker 3I think one of the problems that no one is looking at is , since COVID , there has been a lot of people that have come out of the field , and so now you're looking at a shortage everywhere and even though we have the program here in Alabama , we still have a huge shortage going on , and all across the board , across the United States . So I think this is what is going on in some states trying to combat the shortage of hygienists . That's going on because there are more needs than they have . Hygienists are more needs than they have hygienists . So when you're talking about that , it's like , well , how do we best still serve the community and be able to have some qualified hygienists out there ? So I think that's part of the issue is trying to figure it out . And it's not just hygienists , even with assistants . It's the same thing across the board .
Speaker 32020 with COVID just took us into an area that we had never been before . So because of that , a lot of people had so much fear that they were like , if they was at retirement age , it was hey , I'm done , I'm just going to go here and retire . If they were new to it , it was . I think I made a mistake . I don't think I want to do this .
Speaker 1It was the fear . It was the fear .
Speaker 3So we lost so many people across the board assistants , hygienists that we're still scattering trying to figure it out four years later . And so I think that's where all of this comes into play . How do we serve the community ? How do we , how does everyone go about this ? Because you think about it's more need than people that are going through the schools and getting the degrees and coming out to be a hygienist . It's not enough students coming through . So I guess , with South Carolina , their thought process was to copy off the Alabama dental hygiene program , which would help to combat what they're going through . But we have the program and , trust me , we are still short . We're very short .
Speaker 1So I got accepted in dental hygiene school in 2009 and I graduated in 2012 .
Speaker 1And when I was a dental assistant cause I was a dental assistant first , I always wanted to be a dentist , right . And then I ended up getting pregnant right out of high school and I was like , okay , I can't become a dentist , so let me just do dental hygiene . Because that was the second in my mind . Like the second to the dentist , it was kind of like a nurse and I didn't want to do nurse . And I called the dental hygiene school and I and I let them know that I wanted to join the program and then I was about to have a baby and they were like , oh , you need to do dental assisting . So I was like , okay , whatever . So I didn't know the difference . I didn't know the difference . So I was like , well , let me just do the dental assisting program . I want to get a job and I want to be working at a dental office and it's not the dentist . So for me , mentally , with the education that I had , it was already a confusion of what a dentist versus dental hygienist versus dental assistant was . But I did know that the doctor was the dentist . Now , fast forward , when I actually got in the dental assistant program , it was a year . It was a year certification program and we did it online and then we did our training in one of the dental the local dental offices . When I ended up getting into the field , I was like I don't want to do this , I want to do what the dental hygienist is doing . So I called back to the school and then they were like oh , take the dental assistant program . They told me it again . I said I already did that . So they're like okay , well , you know , you can go in here and come in and apply . So I ended up applying for the program . When I applied for the program , I actually got in . They always say there's a point system , it's very competitive . And I actually got in . So I was like okay , well , maybe you know , maybe it's not as hard to get in . To this day , we still hear there's a point system , it's very competitive to get in . It's great that if you have dental assistant background .
Speaker 1Now fast forward to the shortage . I think when I graduated in 2012, . You cannot find a job . You cannot find a job as a dental hygienist . There were no jobs 2012 to 2014 . Couldn't even find a job . You still couldn't find a job through 2014 , all the way to 2018 is when I started Brown Girl RDH so you couldn't find a job .
Speaker 12020 , when COVID hit , we were all in quarantine , everything kind of shut down . And that's when the older hygienists , the more seasoned hygienists that were like in their 50s and 60s well , 50s is still young , but 60s and 70s , yes , there were 70-year-old hygienists still practicing they got afraid , they got scared because of COVID and they left the profession . They definitely did . Then you had assistants that and not just assistants , but everyone that was sitting home , like I just got laid off or furloughed and I'm going to do a side hustle . So then everybody started doing a side hustle . Then you had businesses and dentistry and the temp agency is like okay , we need to provide staffing . Well , guess what ? Hygienists couldn't practice during COVID-19 because it had to be emergency procedures .
Speaker 4Then you have .
Speaker 1They still need the assistance , but they don't need as many assistance . So assistants and doctors still had their jobs and there was a little gray area where people were like still doing profis because they still had to be in business , but then after that a lot of the RDHs that were working for someone and then got laid off they became entrepreneurs .
Speaker 1So they were like oh , I'm working on my business , I'm starting , you know , I'm starting , you know , my business . Whatever they were doing , they started honing in on that . Me too , I did the same thing , and that's when Brown Girl , rdh pretty much took off , because I had the time to focus . Then we go back in the workforce . Well , I'm a practice in RDH Now my business is booming , it's taken off . I'm doing something PPP loan , what's up . So now I'm like I'm not going back to the field . So now we have a shortage of people going back in . One , they're scared , and two , they're , like I done , bossed up , and now I'm doing what I'm doing . So now you have staffing companies being emerged , and these staffing companies are , you know , they want a piece right . So the staffing companies are like we're
Impact of Dental Hygiene Program Changes
Speaker 1temping out .
Speaker 1So now doctors don't have hygienists , so now they're going to the staffing agencies . The staffing agencies are like well , here's my fee , here's our fee , but then you have to pay the RDH fee . And if you ended up , if you end up hiring the RDH and the dentist because dentists were there too then you have to pay another fee . So now the people that are hiring , whether they're small businesses or corporate offices . They're like I know Ariel , the RDH over here that used to work for me . Let me call her up and see if she can just temp and then I'll end up paying her more right , instead of paying this agency and risking paying a non-compete fee or getting sued because I didn't hire somebody . So now they're like I'll just reach out to the hygienist .
Speaker 4So now the hygienists are like .
Speaker 1Well , I can just temp for myself . If you're going to pay the temp agency $25 per hour and you're going to pay me $28 an hour or $30 an hour , you can just pay me $50 to $60 . And the offices are like , okay . So now we have a transition to where now all the hygienists are tempting themselves . They're not really going through the agency . Some still do , but now they're just tempting themselves . So now the doctors are like , wow , the rates are , you know , 60 . I know one girl that was getting $80 an hour . The rates are $60 plus .
Speaker 1Well , I can't really afford that because my fees can't afford it . But at the same time , if I don't have a hygienist , I lose my clients , which are the customers which are my bread and butter . So now I have to pay for the RDH to come in and clean the teeth , because I don't want to be cleaning teeth or diagnosing , or , you know , I don't want to be doing perio . So then they bring this hygienist in that they know they can't afford . It's kind of like gas . Like you know , gas is $5 , but you're like I'm just gonna put half a tank in there . So now I'd rather have a temp hygienist come in one to two days a week or one to two days a month or however they do it , versus having someone on payroll because I can't afford it . So the shift happened because of combination of those things . But I think where the transition goes is like , hey , you have a new grad and that new grad wants that $50 to $60 .
Speaker 1Erica , you have 25 years of experience , but you went through the ADHP program . So someone that went through just a regular two year dental hygiene program or four year dental hygiene program maybe like you're not qualified , although you have 25 years of experience , which I feel personally just my opinion , my opinion doesn't matter in this subject , but it's experience , because some of these dental hygiene schools and dental schools are practicing on mannequins . They're not practicing on lab live patients after COVID-19 . It's a mannequin . When you're looking at it it's like I read in a book how to do open heart surgery . But have you done it ? Do you have the experience ? I don't want . I don't want you , you know you practicing on me . So there is a combination of things . So everyone is kind of like desperate a little bit and everyone's trying to figure it out . In the end I don't think we're actually working together .
Speaker 1Kara and Erica , thank you guys . So much for explaining it , because the way I read the post immediately everyone's like no , no , no , dental assistants can't be hygienists and blah blah . But I did not realize . It's two years training with a dentist first . Then you go through an 11-month program at the University of Alabama , which then you know if they're qualified they do it . It's no different than a dental hygienist going to school during their two years and coming out and practicing in somebody's mouth and not everybody . You are who you are Either you're strong clinically or you're academically smart . It's very rare that you have two of those traits .
Speaker 4Ariel , what's your take on it ? First of all , let me just say super interesting already I'm like over here writing , writing notes , like wait a minute . So my take on it is I don't . I honestly don't think it's fair as a , as an RDH who had to go through the program , who it's almost like . If you would say like pledging right , like if you're gonna pledge a sorority or fraternity , there's no way you're gonna let somebody just be like . If you would say like pledging right , like if you're gonna pledge a sorority or fraternity , there's no way you're gonna let somebody just be like , well , you know , my , my mom or my dad did it or something , so I don't have to pledge at all or I don't have to do anything about it . Like you know you , you definitely should go through the proper training , anything that you do . Like you said , if you went to a open heart surgery , you're gonna want somebody who actually is , you know , went through the proper training , learned from you know .
Speaker 4Another RDH , to be honest with you , if , if I could just be completely honest you know dentists don't even clean as well as dental hygienists . So I don't see how you can just go two years . I think Kara said you go two years under a dentist and then you get to be an RDH or whatever . I just don't think that it's fair . If they're going to do that , I think it's only in the benefit of the dentist . I feel like the dentist just wants to save the money , but it's not in the best interest for the patients or actual dental hygienists you're going to go if you .
Speaker 4Erica said there's a shortage on both sides , right ? So you have a shortage with RDHs and you also have a shortage on DAs . Well , if you're going to pay DAs to become an RDH , a lot of DAs want to be an RDH anyway . They just don't want to do the schooling for it . So you don't want to go through what it is needed to be an RDH . So if you can go through this program , I feel like there's going to be it's going to be a snowball effect . There's going to be a huge , you know there's going to be a huge shortage of DAs after a while . Then there's nobody that's going to want to be a DA , because RDHs aren't going to go down to what DAs get paid , you know . So who's the next line ? Are they going to start training the office managers to become DAs ? Like , how is that going to work ?
Speaker 4I just I don't agree with it . If they are going to do it or if they're doing it already , I think that they need to make it fair across the board . I feel like they should take off . We have so many stipulations , especially in Georgia , where hygienists can't work anywhere else . We can't work in you know other sectors . We can't work at an office for , you know hospitals , or we can't work in you know other areas . I feel like we should , they should open that up . You know we can work for a naturopathic doctor , or we can work , you know , in other sectors . And then also , I think they should just allow us to have our own spas or or or offices for just dental cleanings . You know , like , if you're going to limit us and you're going to take our jobs , then I feel like you should take off all the stipulations that you have on us .
Speaker 3I was just want to know what was Ariel's background .
Speaker 4I'm a dental hygienist .
Speaker 3How many years have you practiced ? Six years . Okay , you're in the state of Georgia . Yes , okay .
Speaker 1A couple of points that you made . Ariel , Thank you for that and thank you , Erica .
Dental Hygiene Program Concerns and Standards
Speaker 1The ADHP program has been around for years and it is two years training under a dentist prior to getting in the program . Just correct me if I'm wrong . Erica and Kara , that's correct . Yeah , that's , that's correct , Okay , and after that , two years practice practicing with a dentist first . Then it's an 11 month program at the university of Alabama and they have to see 120 patients in . I forget how many hours , but they have to do pro-feeds cleaning . So in my I'm understanding it is it's a fast track dental hygiene program .
Speaker 3Make no mistake about it , the same professors that are up at UAB teaching dental school and there are other places teaching hygiene at the colleges are the same professors that are in this Alabama Dental Hygiene Program . Those are the same professors . They do not sugarcoat anything for you , they do not babysit you , they do not . Their job is to give you the material , teach you the material , and your job is to learn the material and to take the test so that you be able to be ready for your boards . Your job , in the office , under your doctor , that's where you do your training . So now I know there's a misconception about all of this , because people will say well , you know how are they training and who are they . They're training on live patients . Car has been through since me . It's been a long time since I've been through the program , but CAR correct me if I'm wrong isn't it like 120 patients that you have to see ?
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , it's a total of 120 . And then too , I did want to clarify , martell , during that 11-month period you are working full time . What it is is , in those 11 months , every one weekend out of the month , you're going down to UAB taking those classes over the week .
Speaker 1Okay , so the 11 months of your two years ? Is it 11 months ? No , okay , so it is two years and then 11 months out , right ? Two years and then 11 months , yes , okay . And then , Justin , I'll let you have the floor here and give your take on everything that's happening .
Speaker 5My name is Justin Oliver . I'm a practicing dental hygienist . I've been working in the dental field for 14 years now . I have a bachelor's of science degree in dental hygiene and a master's of arts degree in education . I've had the opportunity to teach both in the technical college community or technical college system in South Carolina and also the university system here in Georgia In South Carolina at Orie Georgetown Tech .
Speaker 5I was an associate professor in the dental hygiene program and at Georgia State Perimeter College I was the second year clinic coordinator , working very closely with students , taking them from their first year clinical courses all the way to graduating , so seeing their first perio patient and things like that , preparing them for boards . I think what my concern is is that you know we have to also remember the didactic and the clinical skills that are offered to the student within an educational program . I do not believe that the dentist that is working in a private office or any other setting is able to offer the student Hygiene . Educators are required by the university and or the community college system to take multiple courses in methodology that a regular dentist is not able to or is not required to take . I do not believe that a dentist working a nine to five has the time to clinically educate a student .
Speaker 5We have been clinically educating students since 1913 . I don't believe there's a need to reinvent the wheel . I think that more focus should be placed on eliminating barriers for students to become dental hygienists , and what I mean by that is their ability to apply for the program , their ability to and or the dental hygiene programs being more suitable for students of different backgrounds . I like to your point . It's very common , commonly known , that if you are a pregnant lady or if you have some kind of whatever socio I don't know whatever issue that you might have or situation that you might be in , that dental hygiene school won't be the best fit for you . I think that more , more , more energy should be focused on creating spaces for students to participate fully in the program . I don't believe that teaching a , an assistant , how to scale teeth or or how to scale or polish or anything like that , without a dental hygienist that is qualified to teach and I'm not just talking about dental hygienists who work in the field If you do not have the methodologies or courses in that , then you're not qualified to teach anyone to do anything . That's just how I personally feel and I just disagree with it .
Speaker 5I think that , and I do respect the dental hygiene program as they have it in Alabama . I understand that it meets the needs of their community . I just feel like we are past that in history . We're past the perspective portion of dental of , I guess of dental history . I think that no other profession will allow this , and I heard a comment about students working on mannequins . I do believe that dentistry is one of the few professions that still require a live patient for boards . So that is something that even in the dental hygiene and dental education , I guess , community we have been talking about that for years . Why do we require our students to bring in a live patient while nurses don't typically have to do that ? So I think there's a lot of things that the dental community should focus on when it comes down to preparing students , making it easier or more accessible for students to apply to the program than just allowing a dental assistant .
Speaker 5That is that we can't really verify their standards or their quality of education just to practice dental hygiene . We have to remember that teachers educators are required by CODA and are required by the university or community college to participate in methodology courses . When you talk about programs or you talk about dental hygiene education , all of what is taught in dental hygiene education has to be presented to CODA , you know , so that they know that the standards are being met . You know if you're allowing students to be taught by professionals that are not educators then , how do you verify the quality of their education ?
Speaker 5There's no way to do that Now . Didactic education and clinical education are two different realms in dental hygiene , two different realms in dental hygiene education , if that makes any sense .
Speaker 3You know so .
Speaker 5I respect that students are able to go to the university to learn didactic skills , but that doesn't necessarily prepare you in a clinical setting . So clinical educators have the ability to link what is taught in didactic into the clinic , and if those professionals are not present in clinical settings , there's no link . There is no deep understanding of perio , there is no deep understanding of any type of clinical skills .
Speaker 5What you're learning is what is important for the dentist that you're working for . That could be totally different than another dentist that you could possibly be working for in the future . That's what my concern is . I feel like , as a person that has taught dental hygiene for multiple years , there is no way to verify or validate a person's experience or their clinical knowledge if it's not being given , if the education is not being given by a professional that is qualified to teach them . That's how I personally feel , if that makes any sense .
Speaker 1Okay , thank you for that , Kara . I wanted to add something to that .
Speaker 2Yeah , I just had a question if he was referring to them not being taught by , I guess , just directly from a hygiene instructor , because they're definitely taught by periodontists . So I guess I'm confused about , I guess I just would like for you to clarify what is it that you feel like the students are missing ?
Speaker 5exactly so periodontology in those courses the dentist is typically being taught how to recognize and diagnose perio , which is a big thing that we do as hygienists . We are able to because of our clinical skills to do
Importance of Dental Hygiene Education
Speaker 5that . But the action of providing non-surgical periodontal therapy that portion that a hygienist does is not always put to the most , I guess , is not always taught to the highest standard . The doctor is a doctor . Their job is to diagnose and I'm not saying that the periodontist does not treat because they do treat . The periodontist does not treat because they do treat . But the act of doing or performing non-surgical procedures on patients , the periodontist is not going to provide the same quality of education that a hygiene educator that has training and methodology and degrees in that . So a lot of hygiene educators not only have their degree in clinical hygiene but they have something else that gives them the ability or trains them in teaching . So I don't feel like it's the same .
Speaker 5I do respect the periodontist , the periodontist , I do respect what they do . It's just not . It's not the same . We're like the first line of defense to their . You know , as you probably already know , doing this for as long as you have . You know , we see the patients first , and then , if what we do does not work , we refer them to the specialist . So that's what I personally feel . I just think it's the coursework is geared for a different professional . That's my personal opinion .
Speaker 3So wait a minute . I wanted to add to that . This is Erica speaking , so I'm just trying to get some clarity here . Can everyone hear me ? I understand what you're saying , that the very people that we refer to as far as the perio with the specialists , you're saying that they're not qualified to teach us , even though we're not qualified to do their job . Am I hearing that correctly ?
Speaker 5I think that what I'm saying is that the methodologies that are used in the perio courses that are geared toward dentists do not meet the standards of what a hygienist does professionally on a day-to-day basis . I think that those courses are geared to diagnosing perio and I think that what is done in hygiene school is geared to the hygienist . It is geared to the first line of defense of perio . It's not the same To me . I understand what you're saying , but I think when you look at it from a methodology standpoint it's almost , I hate to say , like comparing apples to oranges . But and I'm not trying to overstep the paradigm but we're not doctors , so the courses are not going to be geared toward what a doctor is and how he do things , not from the hygiene standpoint of it .
Speaker 3But this program has been around for years and they have tweaked the program left and right .
Speaker 3Trust me when I tell you the program is geared towards the hygienist . This is not just a paradigm is coming in teaching . You know what he does from his standpoint . It is taught from the standpoint of a very trained hygienist . The hygienists that are there that also help to train do have master degrees . So they , you know , they are qualified to teach because they can teach on a college level .
Speaker 3So I think there's a lot of misconception and I challenge everyone to dig a little bit deeper to see what the program is about . Now I don't know how South Carolina is going to set their program up . I can't , you know , I can't speak on that in their terms . However , I do , you know , kind of get and understand the fears that everyone have with a program like this coming out . I get it , I totally get it .
Speaker 3But in Alabama , if we're , if we're speaking of , you know , this is the Browns Girls RDH when you're looking at the state of Alabama , there's a lot of us that are brown skin that would have never had the opportunity to become a hygienist . Why ? Because a lot of schools would not accept us , and I'm talking about my 25 years of experience . Back then you was not going to Wallace State because Wallace State was not going to let you come through . Do you understand what I'm saying ? So for us , for us as brown RDHs , this was the only opportunity that we had . It was the only opportunity that we had and a lot of us came through under under doctors that was that looked like us because they knew . They knew we were not getting these same opportunities to be able to step into these colleges and compete with their counterparts . They knew this . So this program , which they could not deny you out of the program , if you turned your paperwork in and you met all of the qualifications , they had to let you in . Now everything else was on you , because they don't sugarcoat you on that Either you got the material and you pass it and you will go to the class , and I'm just using this , for example , Maybe by the time you start there's 300 people in the class . By the time you finish , it might be 75 people in the class that finish , Because they drop you out like flies every week If your test grades are not a certain amount . And they know from here on out , if you get 100 from here on out out , you still not going to pass . So they drop you . They don't sugarcoat it for you , they're not walking you through this , but this program was the only program us Blacks had because we could not get in any other way .
Speaker 3So when y'all was speaking and judging Alabama's program , I can't speak for South Carolina . And now times have changed . Now we do have opportunities to go to the schools and compete and everything else , but for this program we did not . So this program was our bread and butter and all we had for those that did want to go to hygiene school . This was it for us .
Speaker 3So you know , for some of us we take it a little personal , because y'all don't understand the aspect of the walk . We had to walk to get to this point . And I know y'all are saying well , you know , what about this ? What about ? Basically , the only thing that they have done was taken out all of the prereqs and you get straight to doing hygiene . This is what they have done and yes , it's a fast track , but you got to be able to keep up or you're dropped . They don't care about you . To pay your money ? They don't . They don't care about any of that . When I tell you they do not sugarcoat it . You get the material or you don't .
Speaker 3Now , when it comes to hands-on , you could be the best hygienist or you could be the worst hygienist . It's all going to depend on who you are morally and what you want to bring to the table and who you are as a hygienist . So now we're going to compare this . We also have the school here , so now we're going to compare this . We also have the school here . Wallace State been around for years , but at sometimes they they were not you're going to plot , but they don't mean that you was going to get your brown self into that school , right . So now you compare the students that come from this program compared to and I've been doing this for 25 years , so I've been doing a lot of comparing and there are good and bad hygienists .
Speaker 3No matter where you go , I don't care what education you have , I don't care what degree you have . This comes down to hands on and your knowledge . That's what all of this boils down to . And in the state of Alabama , let me tell you , after 25 years and going to other states , just looking around and seeing different things , we have always , as you get , top pet . I'm over here . I'm the best hygienist . I jump through all the hoops . I go up and beyond . This has always been the fight , and over here I'm just speaking from this standpoint because this is the standpoint that I'm in and this is what I know . With hygiene , we always and Cara knows this herself we have to be way better than our counterparts .
Speaker 3So when you're talking about judging us from the standpoint of the knowledge and the hands-on , I challenge y'all , any day of the week , if y'all wanna come to Madison , Alabama , Aspen , Dental , come . I will welcome you with open arms and let you see what this is all about . I promise you you will change your mind on some of these aspects of the way that you think , but I just wanted to step in and let you see what this is all about . I promise you you will change your mind on some of these aspects of the way that you think , but I just wanted to step in and let y'all know like , hey , this has been a platform for many of us that are brown skin . So you know , let's not knock it too much here again . Times have changed . Doors are now opening left and right . You know some of this is not a challenge anymore . So I get it . But you know , for some of us . This was our only way , so I'm gonna yield that and let y'all head the floor .
Perspectives on Dental Hygiene Education
Speaker 3Thank , y'all .
Speaker 5May I make a few comments to that ? I'm sorry if I'm interrupting anyone . Yes , absolutely . Well , I would like to say speaking on racial disparities in dentistry is a very in-depth conversation and I do respect that the Perseverance program has allotted a lot of brown people , especially black women , you know , some kind of foot into this profession . We also have to talk about the ladies that were the pioneers for going to programs . That were the pioneers for going to programs . So I graduated from the Medical College of Georgia , which was the first dental program and dental hygiene program in the state of Georgia . If you meet ladies that graduated in the 70s and the 80s , they were Black ladies . They would talk to you . They would speak of how white dentists and dental hygienists did not want to work with them . So it's not a one-sided conversation .
Speaker 5Honestly there are racial disparities between both of the communities . But I don't feel as if I say all that and say I just don't feel that a person , that a professional , a dentist , that does not have the skill set in clinical methodology has the ability to provide a student with the same quality of clinical education that a hygiene professor is able to . I just don't feel that way . I feel as if me , with my experience with dentists and I'm not saying all dentists are the same , but what I have seen , or what I've grown to know , is that the dentist is very concerned about their bottom line and whatever that looks like is whatever that looks like , and that sometimes does not . And I'm not saying all dentists are like that , but I'm just saying that that sometimes does not equate to a really healthy , solid clinical educational experience .
Speaker 5When someone says to you a dentist , that every five millimeter pocket is SRP and they're unable to look at x-rays from a dental hygienist perspective and gauge the clinical attachment level alone perspective and gauge the clinical attachment level a lot they're unable to gauge . You know even calculus in an x-ray . Or now that the 4346 code is this big thing , you know I've seen dentists you know this is my personal experience say , oh , this patient , you know we did SRP last year on this patient . It didn't work . Now we're going to do a 4346 to kind of get them back , things like that .
Speaker 5You see how some dentists are very concerned with their bottom line and dental hygiene educators tend to take the cost of what it is out of that and go right into what needs to happen or the diagnosis or what needs to happen for the patient . And I also want to talk about the history of dental hygiene education . So we're not just talking about , you know , a dentist clinically training someone . We're talking about how we have historically treated patients , what it is to be a dental hygiene provider , healthcare provider , that is . Dental hygiene and dentistry are two separate fields that we might work hand in hand together . We're not the same .
Speaker 5In states like in California you'll see a dental hygiene board that is separate from dentistry . So those soft skills that are also taught clinically by a hygiene educator , that can only really be given to you by a hygiene educator that only can get that , can only really be given to you by a hygienist that's been doing this and that has those , those that training and methodology the dentist doesn't have . That so it's , it's more than just clinically seeing the patient . It's a , it's a legacy of education , it's a legacy of what we do that is not being offered to students that are being taught hand-in-hand , side-by-side by a dentist that is actually their employer .
Speaker 1Thank you so much for that . I love the conversations , I love how this is going , I love the outlooks of everything .
Speaker 2I did want to clarify , like with the student while they are in that program , a lot of times a lot of offices will pair that hygiene student with a hygiene mentor . I know , especially if you're going and you're working for a corporate office , they usually always are going to pair you with a hygiene mentor . So not only do you have that dentist instructing you , a lot of times you have your seasoned hygienist in the office that are also used as a support and an aid as well . I did want to just kind of clarify that . But I totally get what you're saying , justin , with being , you know , strictly a hygiene educator , how that would be maybe more effective , you know , than going this route . But I just didn't want you guys to think that , oh , they're just out there willy-nilly with the dentist .
Speaker 1Let me just say this we on here are like well , I think , and I think , and I think and I don't know , unless you actually studied this program , we really can't . We can have an opinion all day long , but it's not a fact , it's a feeling , so go ahead .
Speaker 4Yeah , I just wanted to tell you guys , you know , like , as dental hygienists , we're not judging you , don't take it . Don't take it personal . We're not judging the program . We understand the things that you guys had to go through to go through the program and whatnot . But I know dental hygienists who were the only Black person in their program as well and they pushed through regardless . Only black person in their program as well and they push through regardless . You know , it's just , I understand back then that's all you had . But we're here now and there's I . There was only actually one white girl in my program so she was actually the minority of the class and overall dental hygienists , we only make up black dental hygienists we only make up three percent . So you know , we're every dental and we're going to dental hygiene school , we're going through the full program , through the full process . You know you can't take , we're just saying you know , I think we're a bit protective over our , our , let you know , rdh over over our , because we did go through the process .
Speaker 4There's a lot of us that went through . I was lucky to have a program where my instructor looked like me and I understand , you know . But there's , I have friends , I have other hygienists who , like I said , they were the only black or the only male . You know what I'm saying . It's not just about color , you know , it's there's . You know where you , where . They were the only one and they still push through the full program .
Speaker 4I just don't personally feel like you can learn what we know in a matter of 11 months just going on the weekends . This wasn't a weekend thing for us , this was a lifestyle . Some of us had to quit our jobs . Some of us had to live with family members . Some of us had to live with family members . Some of us had to , you know , go through the trenches to get where we are . I know I cried every single day when I was in dental hygiene school and it was just a lot . So you know it's just like .
Speaker 4I think that for hygienists , you know it's like just because you took a couple classes , that or went through 120 patients or whatever , it doesn't make you a dental hygienist . Like you didn't go through the program . So it's just like a wife . You know you have a girlfriend and a wife . You know that that wife is going to be like you can't do what I do or say what I say , because I'm that just because you have a dentist , if you have a general dentist right , and you have a dentist that went to a specialty , you know that general dentist is is going to refer to that specialty because they are . They did not go through everything that that specialty dentist went through , whether it's endo , whatever it is , whether it's perio . So that's all I wanted to say . We're just quite protective over our profession and I think that we went through a lot to get through our program as well , thank you .
Speaker 1So what I want to add here is that everyone has a unique perspective on how they see everything that's going on here and everyone is going to look at it by default from an educator standpoint , from RDH that went through the ADHP program , from a clinical dental hygienist perspective . You're going to see it from there and the opportunity that we have on this podcast is to share everyone's perspective . Who we don't have you know on here . We can say you know the dentist you know don't want to pay , or you know it's not our fault because the reimbursements are low . My job as founder of Brown Girl RDH , which is a nonprofit , which we are here for the people , my job is to understand and to connect the dots . How do we serve our people , right ? So when we're talking about access to care , when we're talking about who gets seen what , when we talk about not having enough hygienists right , not having enough hygienists to work in these offices to see these patients , we're talking about an epidemic . We're talking about an oral health crisis . We're talking about an epidemic . We're talking about an oral health crisis . We're talking about , in the US Senate , discussing the dental hygiene workforce , the dental workforce , barriers on access to care , like we keep forgetting about that big aspect when we're talking about . You know , this is how I feel . This is what school I went to and this is the disparities that we went through in discrimination . But let's not forget about the people .
Speaker 1So what's the solution ? Creating this program in South Carolina , adapting the program that Alabama has ? It's just putting a band-aid on the issue we need to tackle . Justin said earlier , we need to tackle the issue . This might not be the answer . Let's just fast track or let's just create more programs . That has been working in Alabama in so much respect to the program that's there and all the hygienists that went through it . But that's not the issue . The issue is really trying to figure out why we have such a shortage and let's tackle the shortage . So that means not having those barriers for , you know , minorities or people from , you know , disadvantaged backgrounds to get into the programs .
Speaker 1You know taking the red tape out of those programs or creating programs ourselves within our communities that will help pipeline students from this inner city school here in North Carolina to where , okay , now this high school student can go from high school to dental assisting , to working in a practice , getting clinical experience , to applying to dental hygiene school , to coming back to the dental practice , to working in it , to getting their student loans paid off , to going back to dental school , to come back . We're talking about an actual pipeline and during the program of this pipeline , if a high school student ends up getting pregnant or they end up losing , you know , money , they can't work through the program and the dental hygiene program and now , for some reason , they don't have money to pay their rent . So they have to choose between paying my rent , taking care of my child , or going through this program where they can't work . Well , we're talking about having a support system and a program in place to where , hey , we're covering your housing while you're in this program and all you have to do is get through school . I'm not talking about taking out student loans to get through a program . I'm talking about providing support , providing a pipeline and during the program , if this individual ends up , you know , having a child like , we're here to support that student through that transition .
Speaker 1A lot of people have to drop out because , you know , they end up . Oh , I ended up getting pregnant , or I ended up losing my job , or my mom , you know , you know her mortgage or whatever . It is Like we have different issues . I remember when I was in dental hygiene school , everybody was freaking out because they had to study for boards . My daughter had a fever . She was two years old . She had the flu and a fever and I had to worry about her . And I have this girl here talking about how she got to wash the dishes . So it's just like we have different issues . We have different stressors that we have to tackle systemically in traditionally and generationally that we have to tackle . So we need to find a solution to how do we get this high school student that have would never had the opportunity to get to becoming a doctor or dental hygienist , how do we get them from where they are to the end ?
Speaker 1This is one of the things that Brown Girl RDH is working on . So we do have a program and it is the Hygiene High School Dental Hygiene Program and we're getting into these schools and we're mentoring these students and we're helping them through the pipeline of hey , you're going to go to dental assistant school . Once you're done with dental assistant school , you will practice and get hired in one of these dental offices that Brown Guard EDH is affiliated with . Once you're through that program . You will then apply . We will help you apply for dental hygiene school . Whether the dental hygiene school be in Alabama , texas , florida , it doesn't matter . We will help you apply for it and then we will give you the resources and have bays and have dental hygiene homes to where
Addressing Dental Hygiene Education Inequities
Speaker 1you can live .
Speaker 1The most expensive thing in dental hygiene school and I see it with these students with dollar ships when they're asking is their tuition . Why aren't we funding these students ? People have $78,000 of tuition for a two-year dental hygiene program for a for-profit school and they get in there . We're not the most financially aware . You know I can't take out all these student loans and think I'm going to get through the program and not have a game plan . I just want to get in , like , let me get in and I'll figure it out later . So students get in these programs and then they can't register for courses because they have a balance and they can't pay for their tuition and the for-profit schools . They will say no , you cannot register . So if I'm a dental hygiene student going into my second year or my second or third semester and I have a balance and I can't pay for it , what am I gonna do ? I'm gonna default to dropping out .
Speaker 1Trying to do a GoFundMe , like , I see all of the scholarship applications come in time and time again and it's like they get in but it's just like we're hurrying up to let them in , to check the box , right , and then they , they , they drop out , they fail , they don't make it through . That's not helping the access to care , because we know we're the professionals that are going to go back to the federally qualified health centers and we're going to work and we're going to go back in our community and we're going to take those lower wages . That's where our heart is . Pretty much Most people that are missing teeth are poor . Like that's the indication that they are poor . Try to get a job . With a missing tooth or missing teeth , you're not going to get a job . How do you live ? Why is this ? Because dentistry is so expensive , right ? Why is dentistry so expensive ? It has nothing to do with the RDH , it has nothing to do with the schools , with inflation , okay , let's face it . Now people are going overseas to get dental care . A root canal in the US is $1,200 . Up you go to India , it's $250 . So people can't even afford dental care .
Speaker 1This issue is bigger than us right . This is an economic issue and we need to stop the bleeding , because fast tracking or trying to create more dental assistants , that's not the solution . It is finding a way to get Martel from being a pregnant high school student to , you know , a dental hygienist , to a doctor . It's how do we pipeline these students ? And then guess where I go To dental practices , to where you know we do accept Medicaid , we do have that sliding fee scale , we do employ brown skin people , we do give the opportunities . It's no secret that when you look at some dental practices , you just see all white faces . If you don't think that's strategic , it really is , because some of these doctors that have private practice and I'm not talking about all of them they want a certain look for their hygienist . So you're already tapping out .
Speaker 1So I understand all different aspects in it . For me , it's like what is the solution ? How do we help the people ? How do we serve our people ? How do we get in these other communities ? This is pretty much a call to action . What can we start doing to participate , to help the issue ?
Speaker 1The issue is not creating more dental hygienists . The issue is serving the people who have the needs , serving the people who are flying overseas to get down treatment , who are in the hospitals and the ERs because they have a toothache , who have cardiovascular disease or who have arthritis because they have untreated periodontal conditions . That's what we should be focusing on and I just feel like everyone has their . We should do this , we shouldn't be doing this , but we're really just putting a bandaid . It's very sad because we're just putting a bandaid on the issue , but if we stop the bleeding , get into these schools or these neighborhoods or these rural communities and start creating providers and pipelining them .
Speaker 1I don't know if you guys know this , but only one third of dentists even accept Medicaid . Some of them are dropping regular insurance because they're like , hey , regular insurance is not paying what we need to . I can't afford to open my business . I can't afford a hygienist . Try paying a Medicaid . Reimbursement for a prophy is $26 . Try paying your hygienist $60 an hour . It's not going to work . That's not . That doesn't make business sense . Walmart is a billion dollar company , the most powerful company in the world , the most powerful , one of the most powerful companies in the world , and they just closed down 51 dental clinics because it wasn't profitable . If Walmart shutting down 51 dental clinics , what do we really think is going to happen to our profession as a whole ? My solution is hey , let's go to where the people are , let's go to where you know , let's stop the bleeding , let's get into these schools , let's create more providers , however we can create it , but I'm just throwing more therapists or dental hygienists out there and assistants .
Speaker 1I don't think . I don't think that's the answer . You need people who care about people and I think that's what we should be focusing on , and a lot of you said that in so many ways . But this is not about us . This is not about the dentist not wanting to pay . This is about where our profession is going and how can we help the people . If the senate says there's a workforce shortage and a crisis and we need to be looking at that like this is not just in our city , this is globally . So it's very sad to see and um , everything , but it's just like all right , how do we serve our people ? If you're , if you guys are interested , anyone listening , interested in learning more about our hygiene high school pipeline and how you can support and help with our program , like it is an effect and that is our mission , and with any closing words , hey guys .
Speaker 4yeah , you can find me . You can go on my website , arielvrdhcom . I'm a children's book author and I love things like this . Thank you for having me on here . My handles are at arielvrdh . Arielvdh , that's the handle . Yeah , definitely , and my closing statement is just thank you , martel . And that's what I was talking about , about allowing you know . If they're going to do that , then opening up opportunities for hygienists , rdhs , to work in different sectors and helping people in hospitals , naturopathic offices and things like that . So exactly what I'm talking about . Thank you , martel .
Speaker 2I was just going to close with thank you again for hosting
Supporting Dental Professionals for Patient Care
Speaker 2this . I do think that we got a lot of insight today on . You know both sides .
Speaker 2But , I just want to . I just want to leave this for everybody . It doesn't matter how . To me , it doesn't matter how you came into this field . At the end of the day , we should support each other regardless . I do believe everyone's heart is in the right place . Everybody is , you know , seeking to serve patients , seeking to do the right things by patients as well , and also students , our future hygiene students . So I just wanted to leave with that .
Speaker 3First off , I want to say thank you for having me . I appreciate it and just to add on , this is , at the end of the day , it is what you were saying . It is about the people that we serve , it's about the public and it's about giving them the best care possible . And at the end of the day , you know , I don't know what's going to happen . I don't know as far as what's going on in South Carolina . In the program , a lot of times you know , whether we like it or not , some things happen and some things changes . I guess the input would be how can we make things better as a whole ? This platform exists for a reason and we have to think of it in the sense of you know , how can we be better ? How can we be better , regardless of the background ?
Speaker 5How can we be better as RDH and how can we better does not indicate your educational level or standard , and always try your best to create those links that you learn in school to better provide service to your patients . You know . Let them know that you have an educational experience . A lot of times , patients don't see us as educated . You know , always , reiterate where you came from . You know the qualifications that you have and why you are the best professional to provide the services that you provide . Those are my ending statements . Thank y'all .
Speaker 1This has been a great , inspirational and full of a lot of information for me . I know for sure If you want to learn more about the High School to Hygiene program , you can reach out to Brown Girl RDH . Info at browngirlrdhorg . You can find us at Brown Girl RDH on all social media platforms or you can email us if you wanted to learn more or be involved . Thank you , guys .
