dental-ish by browngirlrdh
The first black dental podcast mixed with a little something extra. Podcast topics range from family, entrepreneurship, education, to working in the dental industry as black professionals. Brought to you by BrownGirl, RDH.
dental-ish by browngirlrdh
Generational Trauma and Trust in Healthcare
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In this final episode of Season 3 of Dentalish, I had the pleasure of speaking with Arica Davis-Clark, a practice manager for a Dental Service Organization (DSO). We dove into the challenges and rewards of managing a dental practice, especially in the context of the post-COVID landscape. Erica shared her journey from the finance industry to dental management, highlighting the importance of advocating for both patients and staff in a high-pressure environment.
We discussed the evolving landscape of dental hygiene, including the shorter career lifespan of hygienists and the need for flexibility in work schedules. Erica emphasized the significance of representation in the dental field, particularly for Black professionals, and how having leaders who understand the community can foster trust and comfort among patients.
Throughout our conversation, we touched on the importance of communication between hygienists and dentists, stressing that both roles must work together to create a harmonious practice. Erica shared valuable insights on mentorship, the necessity of asking questions, and the importance of advocating for oneself in the workplace.
As we wrapped up, Erica encouraged listeners to never settle for less than they deserve and to continue pushing for better opportunities within the dental industry. This episode was a rich discussion filled with practical advice and inspiration for anyone in the dental field, especially those looking to transition into practice management. Thank you for joining us this season, and I hope you found this episode as enlightening as I did!
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Solo Season Wrap-Up
Speaker 1Okay , so this season it's just me solo . The last couple seasons we have like a group , but you can never get everybody together on time . When you're running a business and you're trying to create a project , you know if you have multiple people on it and it doesn't always coincide with everyone's schedule . Sometimes the ship crashes before it even starts to sail . We got to run that back . I'm gonna have to do it by myself . So this season three I would just took the , you know , took the steering wheel and was like let me go ahead and run this real quick . Yeah , I know I have the time to do it , but I do know everybody else's time doesn't . So if you guys have been listening to season three , you notice that it's only me . Hopefully on another season or next season we have another host or co-host , but right now your girl gotta get the job done , so sorry here .
Speaker 1So this is the last episode of the season and life has been life and so I took a little break , but I gave y'all nine other episodes to listen to . Okay , it's a funny . It's a funny thing because the way my life is and the way I don't have time to do this , everyone's like how do you find time to record the podcast and do all that stuff . I'm like girl . I got up at 7 in the morning every 30 minutes . I got all these interviews and I recorded everybody in one day and my brain was like jello by the interview . The last interview I was done , I was mentally exhausted . I was tapped out . My energy was drained . That's because it was like so much , you know , pulling the energy giving right like putting out there .
Speaker 1I don't know how you find time to do it , plus run your other platforms , which brought me to really wanting to get on here with you , because I am also in practice management .
Speaker 2Yes , I , was actually gonna ask you like are you still on the clinical side of RDH or are you like on the like practice admin side , management side ? Are you like I'm ?
Speaker 1on right now . I haven't , I haven't scaled a tooth in like two years , but I still have my license . Okay , we're on the admin side , the practice okay , you know the real , the real , real business right , oh my god , yes if I'm feeling a little shy , I might jump back in there and be like let me see if I still got it .
Speaker 2I know I don't enjoy it .
Speaker 1Yeah , I do not enjoy . I enjoy a conversation with people , right ? I don't enjoy the cleaning of the teeth .
Speaker 2That career is just like it's no longer has the longevity that it used to have , like it's physically wearing and tearing on people's bodies , like I mean I think honestly . I was in your group and I saw somebody say like they read an article where now the lifespan of a hygienist's career is like five to ten years and that's like ten years is like the long end and I'm like , oh my god .
Speaker 1I agree , because I graduated in 2012 and I would say by 2022 . I was like kind of over it but , it was . It's a good career . It's a great career , right it's a great .
Speaker 2I mean the way that I am literally trying to . Well , I would say now I'm in a great space with my you know , my entire team , but for a second there I would say , like a year ago , maybe even like eight months , to like 11 months ago , oh my gosh , like it was skeleton , like it was so hard to locate , like people didn't want to accept full-time positions at . You know , people want to have , like hygienists want flexibility . They don't want , you know , five day a week schedules and they're wanting to have a little bit more freedom with their times . And I feel like that's something that we definitely have had to be a hard pill to swallow for practice managers and DSOs across the country , like post COVID is , you know , the shift in the hygiene , the hygienists , like the lifespan of the full-time hygienists almost doesn't exist nowadays .
Speaker 1So right , right , okay . So we kind of like jumped in . Sorry , y'all , y'all , oh sorry , we got sidetracked . Well , let me , let me not be rude and let me introduce our guests the proper way .
Speaker 2Look just like Black folks , Just jump in oh no , look , don't get me started , because I can talk all day about this Right .
Speaker 1Right , it's always a family reunion .
Speaker 1It is . I actually never met Erica . She's my Facebook friend and this is the first time us interacting , but you would never know , right ? So , okay , you guys , I'm going to start over . Okay , this is like from the beginning . Welcome to Dentalish . This is season three . This is episode 10 , the very last episode of this season . Clark and she is a practice manager for a DSO and she's going to jump on here and give us some insight from the practice management side , from the employee , from the RDH side , pretty much .
Speaker 1I put a post on Facebook like , hey , I need one more episode , the last episode , and I need to figure out what to talk about . Because I was going to get on here and talk about how do you start a podcast , because maybe somebody needs to know how to start a podcast . And I was going to get on here and talk about how do you start a podcast , because maybe somebody needs to know how to start a podcast , and I was going to give you all the details and breakdowns . But then you know I wasn't really itching to do that , it was . They wasn't moving me , right ? Y'all want to listen to it . Y'all don't necessarily want to start one . Oh , you're going to be doing it .
Speaker 1So Erica jumped on my post and she was like , oh , we can talk about this and this and this and this . And a lot of people jumped on the post and I was like she stood out . I was like , okay , inbox me hit me up . So she got on here and she had some really great points and I'm going to piggyback off some of them . But , erica , welcome to Dentalish . Tell people who you are , where you're from and how did you become knowing about Brown Girl RDH in the podcast in the podcast ? And then we'll get into what we were just talking about .
Speaker 2Yes , thank you so much , martel , for having me . I'm so excited . It is definitely an honor . I've seen what you've done in the hygiene space and I think what you're doing is very beautiful and it's very necessary in our industry and it's so rare For me .
Navigating Leadership in Dental Management
Speaker 2I am a small town girl from Jonesboro , arkansas originally , so I'm definitely from down south . I currently live in St Louis Missouri with my husband and I've been in dental for about four and a half years now .
Speaker 2I hopped in right at the very beginning of the pandemic so it was definitely a chaotic time to hop into the dental field for me personally , especially converting from a much slower industry .
Speaker 2I came from the finance field . I worked in collections as like a account auditor and I switched careers during the pandemic over into dental with zero dental experience , so if you can imagine how crazy and how chaotic that was , I went on to manage a practice that was pretty large . It was like a 15 op practice that service a lower economic community , primarily Medicaid Medicare patients , and it was probably one of the hardest jobs that I've ever had , but also one of the most rewarding jobs that I've had , and we may get a chance to touch on that a little more but exciting things about the job is being able to target the community of people that look like me and the employees that I worked with changed my life and being able to really advocate for them and provide them with opportunities to advance their career . While I was doing the same thing and also advocating for better wages for dental assistants was one of my primary focuses as a practice manager .
Speaker 1So your love of your position comes from the urge to help people like to be 100% . Yes . So most of the time , people getting these management positions and it's like I'm in this position and y'all just do what I say and that's a dangerous game to play and there's a thin line between practice manager , office manager , boss and then being a friend .
Speaker 1And a lot of people don't know how to distinguish between the two , like we're cool , but you need to still handle business . We're cool , but it's business per usual . Being a practice manager , how do you distinguish between ? You ? Know that thin line between you know you're there for the doctor and the practice and the business and you're also the advocate for the employee .
Speaker 2That is such a layered question . It's it's so many things , especially because at the time I was definitely much younger and I'm still young , but at the time you know my , the people that I was managing , we were all right around the same age and you know , because of the type of practice that I've walked into , you know we had a lot of new dentists , like fresh out of you know school associate dentists . We had a pretty young staff and so , like we're in the age of social media , right , like everybody is on there , like you know . So that was one of the things I felt like I had to establish early on is boundaries with my team , like not I'm a big ad and it's okay if you have those that comfort with your team or who you know , whoever you work with . Me personally I do not add colleagues on social media for so many reasons , and at the time I felt like it was very necessary to not have that line crossed with my team . Also , at the time I was dealing with a lot of employees that didn't have like a ton of experience , so this was such a growing thing for myself and them .
Speaker 2But what I really saw was that I People just simply want it better for themselves . And I think we kind of met in the middle while like , help me , help you , help our patients . And if we can figure out how to meet in the middle and accomplish that simple goal , then everybody can win and everybody can succeed , because we had tons of obstacles . Martel , I think like if you've ever worked in Medicare , then you already Medicaid that arena . You already know it's volume over everything and however you know it's , you want to see more patients than few and like you have production to meet and it gets really crazy . And because of where we were located in the city , it was very difficult . Like we had bars on the windows at that particular office , so it just created that environment that felt very hostile and I think our patients felt a little targeted in a way , like the practice that was presented in a way that it wasn't meant to create a welcoming space for them .
Speaker 2Or comfort or comfort and , like you're already dealing with an industry that people fear , like because of bad experiences , and dental has come a long way . So it was a lot of pressure , because not only was I , you know , left with that feeling of having to advocate for the patients , but my staff would oftentimes feel unsafe because of the high stress environment , because of patients who may have been running late for whatever reason because of , you know , transportation and all of these things , and then the doctors advocating for the doctors as well , things , and then the doctors advocating for the doctors as well . So I'm I'm like forced with advocating . I won't say forced , because I I desire to advocate , but it's a very difficult position to be in when you have to advocate for every single body in the practice and you have to find that soft spot . It's a challenge and I think that it's something that everyone is always trying to find . Like what is that magic answer you know .
Speaker 1Yeah , I don't think you get that by jumping in there . You get that by you know experience . You get that by being brave enough to do it right , like you're . Like , I'm going to take on that challenge and part of that is being a leader . Right , you have to be a leader . You have to be able to lead Even if you don't know what you're doing . You can be a leader . You gotta act like .
Speaker 2I listen , I'm telling you there were so many times where I was like I have no idea what they're talking about , but we're gonna figure this out . Like and one thing about it , I've always considered myself a prideful person , but that was the job where , like , you can't really have an ego , like in dentistry . You , you cannot be proud If you , you better find out , you better figure out a way to ask somebody , find somebody that you trust enough that won't clown you for not knowing stuff , especially for me , not coming from that clinical background . I , when I finally felt like I found , like a mentor in the industry that I could trust . I cling to them and I asked them everything because there was so much to learn and so much to you know , grasp , who is your mentor ?
Speaker 2At the time , my mentor was a regional manager . Her name was Robin Howard . Shout out to Robin . She was so patient and I think that she knew that I was coming into a hell of a practice that really just needed a lot of love . Like I mean that it was an office that had been neglected for years .
Speaker 2When you're dealing with food deserts and lower economic spaces , people are afraid of those areas . People are afraid to show that they care enough and really the patients just want someone to care . They want to feel like they are receiving the care that they 100% deserve , and so I think they recognized my desire to help people in the community . It got me a lot further than I think . Coming in with like 10 years of experience , I think me showing that I actually cared about the patients and I wanted to get to the very bottom of what the core problem was with that practice . That took me very far . So , yes , having a mentor that listened to you and recognized your unique talents is what kind of garnished our relationship and built the relationship that got me to where I am today and she . We've kind of grown a little apart and my mentor has changed as I've grown in the industry , which is something you'll see , and I think everybody should acknowledge that that does happen . You can and it should .
Speaker 1You will outgrow your mentors , as you , you know , grow in your fields , and so now my mentor is a another practice manager that's been with the company for a very long time and yeah , so One of the things that I understand and I understood from you know , just creating Brown Girl RDH is that representation matters and if we can plug , if we can inspire , if we can create more brown faces , we can help
Generational Trauma in Healthcare
Speaker 1more people .
Speaker 1We can access those communities where they're already afraid to go to the dentist . And somebody that looks like them is very , very important , especially trust , and it always goes back to , like the tuskegee airmen and all of the you know medical procedures that were done on black people . Yes , they were . You know they were test animals . So now they test on rats and animals and stuff and you can see the cruelty free not tested on animals on some products . But if you think about it , not too long ago they were testing on Black women . They were doing procedures on , you know , Black men . So it's like you know , we have that stamp , that seal of you know we don't test on animals .
Speaker 1But Black people want to test animals . So that fear of the dentist , that fear of the medical profession , that fear of going to the doctor stems from somewhere and there was some research that has showed that a mother that went through trauma like that had a traumatic experience , who was pregnant when their baby was born and they tested , like their DNA , their DNA had some whatever the markers were for anxiety and fear . So they're saying , like that trauma is genetically .
Speaker 2Yes , it translates yes , across . So it's so interesting that you brought that up , because I've read so many articles that talks about how trauma can transcend generations . One of the articles that I read that stood out quite a bit was one that talked about how Black people , black women specifically , can recess pain at a higher rate than white women during birth , and I thought that that was very interesting for it to be a published article . It was like a health published article . I wish that I could remember where I found it , but I just think that oftentimes , this whole idea that Black people should be able to take , you know , hit after hit after hit and you know , be considered strong and you got this , you know , very strong .
Speaker 2You hear that word used quite a bit , especially when describing Black people , black women , and yeah , it's just like people are allowed to be afraid and that fear comes from very deep within . It doesn't have to be you know any one person . I think that we're so conditioned to expect to be treated badly because of how society has painted the healthcare and how it receives Black people in general , that there is that fear that starts very , very young , even if you know we deal with children that come in and it's like , oh , this is their first visit , I have no idea why they're fearful . But then you kind of think about what you said and like it's idea why they're fearful , but then you kind of think about what you said and like it's .
Speaker 2it's something that should be considered , which is why I my hope is that we can continue to educate other Black people about careers that are within the dental space and the oral health space , because we really really need more Black dental professionals . That is a heel that I will die on I have . I mean , I can't tell you how many times I've walked into an office and people are like are you the dentist ? And you see that like hope and I'm like man I hate to tell you I'm not , but I am the practice manager but because they're looking for a safe haven , they they're like oh man , you know , someone that looks like me is gonna take care of me , you know so it's that safety it's and that's anywhere .
Speaker 1You know , if you go to a different country and you're looking for food , and if you walk , went to a different country and you didn't know anything else , when you see them golden arches , you're gonna be like , oh , that's me you know what I'm saying .
Speaker 1So it's a comfort thing and I'm not comparing food , but I know what you mean when you have that comfort , like you , you , it's an instant when you see another person . Now what happens , what happens sometimes with us , is if we're , you know , you have two black people in a room full of white people , or or you know just two minorities in the room and they don't want to speak to each other , like it's like , oh , we , we know , we , we see each other . Maybe , maybe I shouldn't speak . So there was it's so funny because there was a shirt that I had bought and it said hey , black people , it's okay to speak . Okay , it was , it was , you know , back in the day .
Speaker 1And a lot of older people , when they see someone , it doesn't matter who they are , they speak and they say hello , but nowadays we don't even , we don't even acknowledge . Think about it . When you're in the coffee shop or , you know , going to the grocery store , you're not going to speak to the person . So I'm making it a conscious decision to be like hey , how are you ? Or if I'm in the store and someone has a name tag hey , miss roxanne , how you doing ? Do you know where ?
Speaker 1blah , blah , blah yes just trying to , you know , get back into being a good human right , just being right like we're people here . How many times have you walked up to someone in the store and be like can you tell me where this is ? You see their name tag . You don't even acknowledge them . You know how's your day .
Speaker 2Hey , that makes them feel good they light up , makes them feel good yes , that goes a long way and I think just making sure that you know you have dental professionals that understand that fear it may come from something else , and like working with other professional dental professionals , that has been amazing , a very interesting thing , because most of the time you're you're pretty much the only one in leadership that look like yourself .
Speaker 2So when you have like unique cases where you have plenty of experiences where it's just like yeah , the unspoken word , where you really have to and I know , like we , we as millennials , like we talk about , oh , the pressures of having to bear the weight of every Black person when you're the only . But I do feel like we have a responsibility in certain arenas to represent the Black experience , to make sure that we get that across . Like that we convey those experiences , those patients , those cases , to other professionals who don't look like this , so that they know how to treat those patients moving forward or how we deserve to be treated .
Speaker 1You know and I wanted to say as far as the rdh and the doctor dynamic for a lot of practice in rdhs we talked about how the cycles it runs . You know the lifeline of a hygienist . As far as in the profession the cycle is getting shorter , yes , but you guys get into practice management
Navigating Dental Practice Management
Speaker 1. Erica didn't know anything about any clinical like it you have a stronger advantage if you are .
Speaker 1I'm telling you , I do it . You know the page . You can explain things to patients , you can do treatment plans , you can do billing , you can run these offices and then jump in if they need a hygienist . You know you can make yourself so much more valuable if you get into practice management . So , erica , you just being on here as a pop woman in leadership , like if you guys have any questions about practice management , how to become in the field , if you need a mentor , if you need some tips , if you're trying to transition out of the op , I would definitely , definitely , definitely hit erica , because there's an avenue for that and then you can , you know , do both . Hey , I want to do hygiene two days and I want to do practice management . You don't have to be stuck in an operatory unless you absolutely love it . But I say , get into the business side of things . Well , I know you're in the brown girl rdh and a lot of times we'll have some dentists , post some stuff and then the hygienists will go off .
Speaker 2They will go off .
Speaker 1I know you'll be in there reading the comments , Girl . Oh my God .
Speaker 2You guys , please . I have dealt with this for you know , okay . So that was definitely a new area that I had to kind of experience because , again , that first practice that I managed was like we didn't have hygienists . So shame , shame on some DSOs that don't offer hygienists to Medicaid patients , but it was probably a pedo office that you worked in , and it , it wasn't , so it wasn't , but so shame on them . But I'm not gonna call any names right now .
Speaker 2Don't say we don't do that I know they exist and they should do better , but that's neither here nor there . You guys , rdhs , you have to work towards building better relationships with the doctors , and this is for doctors too . So I'm pointing the finger at both areas , because the clinic cannot survive and , I'm telling you , there is no pressure worse than feeling the thick cloud of tension between a hygienist and the doctor when a patient goes into the room . Because , I'm telling you , I have felt it more times than not and you have to figure out a way to meet in the middle . I don't know if it means maybe pulling your practice manager , document , document , document situations . There has to be a middle ground and both parties have to be willing to meet somewhere , because the practice cannot thrive with those two positions being like at each other's head , and I think that the thing that is , you know , one of the biggest issues is both positions and both providers are bringing valuable information to the table , and it's something within the communication that's not clicking , whether it's a treatment plan , that the doctor thinks this and the hygienist saw this on .
Speaker 2The x-rays are like you guys are really in the gums , so you get to see things that may have been missed and maybe the doctor has been , you know , a little stubborn and it's really just is . If there was one awesome piece of advice , it's not profound or anything like that , but it was just taking the ego out of what you do , because ego is what is preventing some of these conversations that really need to be happening . Some of these conversations that really need to be happening , it's because one or both are not willing to come down enough to kind of see where the other professional is coming from . And really it all serves . We're all trying to service the patient at the end of the day .
Speaker 1So I think I agree . I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying and , I think , where the issue comes in . So now it's like I don't want to be in a practice where I bump heads with the doctor . Let me just temp so I can be here today . I know that kind of messes up . You know that messes up the balance in the food chain too , because now somebody can find a hygienist and everybody , you know yeah we talk about the pain , assistance , scaling and polishing and doing all of this stuff .
Speaker 1But I feel like it's just not healthy . You know it's not for our profession , it's not healthy for , you know , the patients . It's just not healthy overall . And what goes up must come down . So we'll come back to that . But we have to , we have to work together , we have to work you have to work together , everybody has to work together . Everybody , you have to work together .
Speaker 2Everybody has to work together , everybody and listen those . I know that and I'm going to say y'all because I know this is primarily a hygiene space . Those offices exist out there . You guys , like I'm telling you I'm going to brag on my office a little bit because I want nothing I wanted when I was really looking for hygienists . I wanted nothing more than to find hygienists that may have come from situations where they weren't satisfied and I'm like , let me prove to you that this is an office where you will be supported , you will be advocated , for we do have a doctor who is experienced , who is willing to meet you where you are and is willing to talk through treatment plans and find the best solution for the patient .
Speaker 2That satisfies what your findings are as well , and I think it creates a perfect harmony . And also pay pay , fair pay , benefits . Those offices do exist . I mean , I'm always blown away by listening to stories from hygiene professionals where they're coming from practices where they were 10 , 15 years in the game with zero benefits . That like blows me away , like I'm like what ?
Speaker 1How .
Speaker 2They're loyal . And those are the older , those are the older mentality people you know , we as , oh yeah , y'all , we out like okay , no benefits .
Speaker 1Okay , right , this is this . Is this too much y'all doing too much ? So , erica , to wrap it up , what valuable lesson or life lesson that you've learned that you'd like to share ? You know , for the community , for the people , like what would you a little pro gem ? I had a gem today . Somebody who envies you cannot be your friend or help you in your business . It's just not going to work .
Speaker 1It's just not going to be there , or is not going to be there , even though you want that person to do not have a mirror circle . So what piece of advice would you give ?
Speaker 2in in this industry . It took me a while to get comfortable enough to speak up . So never stop asking questions . Always be willing to advocate for yourself . Don't settle , because I know times are hard . You literally said it and I hear it daily life be lifin' and that does not mean that you should take less than what you deserve because of where the industry is and where the economy is . Ask those questions because if one person is not giving you the answer , it doesn't mean that the the answer doesn't exist , and I've ran into that quite a few times and , of course , as plain as it can get is to never stop advocating for yourself , for sure .
Speaker 1I was watching a little tiktok or something and it was Nicki Minaj . She was like my , my favorite , and she was like if I would have accepted the pickle juice , I would be drinking pickle juice right now , flippin' yes , because people will give you things because , that's what you're gonna get .
Speaker 2Exactly . And people , I'm telling you , people will shortchange you . You know , nobody is gonna push for you as much as you can do for yourself . Like I mean , I know we all have support systems , but like nobody knows you , like you know you , so you have to go into those rooms . Don't take no for an answer . You know , sometimes you just have to go in and say , look , this is what I bring to the table and this is what I can , you know , be an asset to your team or what have you . But so much can be said , but I think that we just have to make sure that we are being heard and making sure that we're , you know , knocking down those doors , because they need to be knocked down , for sure .
Speaker 2Where can people find you ? You can find me on Facebook at Erica Davis Clark . That's A-R-I-C-A Davis , hyphen Clark . I'm also on Instagram . Feel free to find me there . I love to travel , eat good food . I share a lot of other information as well at Erica A-R-I-C-A dot Faye , f-a-y-e , and I'm also on LinkedIn . I'm working through LinkedIn . Linkedin is not my favorite , but we're working through , we're pushing through . So if you want to connect on LinkedIn , we can connect on LinkedIn . You can find me at Erica Davis Clark as well , so okay , okay .
Speaker 1Well , that was great in a little bit of short time that was . That was a fruitful amount of information you need to come to the Brown Girl RDH conference .
Speaker 2I , I know and it's in DC , right and I love DC Around the corner .
Speaker 1It's October 3rd . We'll have so much to talk about , but thank you so much for being on this episode , our final episode of the season . All right , you guys . That's it for this season . Thank you so much for listening . Bye , bye .
