Hacks, Apps, and Scrapping Gold Earrings: A Dental Journey

In this exciting episode of Dental-ish, we dive deep into the world of dental hygiene with our esteemed guest, Dr. Tonya Jeffries. As a prominent figure in the field, Dr. Jeffries shares her extensive experience and insights, making this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in dental hygiene and its evolving landscape.

We kick off the conversation by introducing Dr. Jeffries, who has an impressive background in academia and advocacy. She has held various roles, including faculty member, clinical coordinator, and program director. Notably, she made history as the first African American president of the Maryland Dental Hygienist Association, where she has been instrumental in advocating for legislative changes that expand the scope of practice for dental hygienists in Maryland.

Dr. Jeffries discusses her recent accomplishments, including the publication of her book, The Dental Hygiene Hack, which serves as a guide for aspiring dental hygiene students. She also reveals her innovative creation of the first mobile dental hygiene app designed to support students throughout their educational journey. This app is a game-changer, providing essential resources and tracking tools to help students succeed in their programs.

As we delve into the challenges faced by underrepresented groups in dental hygiene, Dr. Jeffries shares her research on the lack of diversity in the field and the disparities that exist. She emphasizes the importance of representation and mentorship, particularly for students of color, and how her work aims to bridge these gaps.

The conversation takes a personal turn as we reflect on our own journeys in the dental hygiene profession. Dr. Jeffries and I share our experiences of navigating the challenges of being minorities in a field where representation is often lacking. We discuss the importance of support systems, mentorship, and the need for organizations like Brown Girl RDH to empower and uplift aspiring dental professionals.

Throughout the episode, we touch on the evolving expectations of new generations entering the workforce. Dr. Jeffries highlights the differences in attitudes and behaviors among today's students compared to previous generations, particularly regarding professionalism and accountability. We explore how these changes impact the dental hygiene profession and the importance of adapting our teaching methods to meet the needs of today's learners.

As we wrap up the episode, Dr. Jeffries shares valuable lessons she's learned along her journey, emphasizing the importance of perseverance and obedience to one's goals. We also discuss the significance of community and collaboration in driving change within the dental hygiene field.

Listeners will walk away from this episode with a wealth of knowledge about the dental hygiene profession, the importance of diversity and mentorship, and practical advice for aspiring dental hygienists. Dr. Jeffries' passion for her work and commitment to making a difference in the field is truly inspiring, making this episode a powerful reminder of the impact we can have when we uplift one another.

1. "I created CE courses. I do a CE course on implants, third molars." - 00:01:31
2. "We have great disparities of oral health in our communities, and we need clinicians that look like us who are able to speak to and be effective in those communities." - 00:04:37
3. "I had a 4.0 the entire time. Like I was like, I already made it to make it." - 00:08:06
4. "I just knew I had to work harder and I knew there were other challenges to overcome." - 00:05:39
5. "The hygiene hack really does give that upfront information to people who are interested in this industry." - 00:12:05
6. "If you don't have support, money can always be a thing. But the biggest thing is that support, that support will get you far." - 00:13:41
7. "I think it starts with the level of respect and the expectati

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome back to season four , episode two of Dental-ish . Today's guest is Dr Tanya Jeffries . She has the dental hygiene hack . Welcome , Dr Jeffries .

Speaker 2 0:10

Thank you , I'm excited to be

Meet Dr. Tanya Jeffries

Speaker 2 0:12

here .

Speaker 1 0:12

Yes , we are excited . We have been back and forth on social media and the Brown Guard age groups . We haven't actually met or crossed paths , but we do see each other and I'm so excited for you to be here . Tell the audience a little bit about yourself .

Speaker 2 0:25

Sure , sure . So I came into hygiene . I've been in academia for a long time . But in addition to academia I've definitely served in other areas of hygiene . So I've been faculty , I've been a clinical coordinator , I've been program director . Outside of academia I've also enjoyed being the first African American president of the Maryland Dental Hygienist Association . I've advocated for bills . I have a bill in my name with my colleague where we have expanded the scope of practice for Maryland dental hygienists to be able to do assessments and oral assessments at community fairs or events . This is one of the first steps that were taken to sort of give us greater autonomy in Maryland .

Speaker 2 1:13

I created CE courses . I do a CE course on implants , third molars . I do interdisciplinary education , all of those things . I really am big in accreditation . So my more recent projects have been building and helping programs become accredited . I've launched my consulting business in that . And then on top of that , my most exciting project is the recent book that I just had published and authored . It's called the Dental Hygiene Hack . It is for those who are interested in hygiene , for those who are coming into the program and have been accepted into the program . But I didn't stop there , of course . I created the first mobile dental hygiene app for hygiene students . It will carry the student through the entire curriculum , so I'm super excited about that . We've launched it . I've had my great colleague from ADHA she wrote the forward for the book and we've been marketing this thing and getting it out there to students and programs . So we've done a little bit of work .

Speaker 1 2:19

It's amazing what you have done and what you have accomplished , and I'm just like whoa , whoa , whoa , whoa , whoa , whoa . I have not met another person in the industry that has accomplished so much . So congratulations , and I'm super , super proud of you . As far as the accomplishments and the apps , Now I'm like oh I gotta pick your brain . Whoa you're like . We're the organization going as far as connecting students . Our biggest thing is giving scholarships , mentoring those students and giving them a pathway for dental hygiene or , you know , higher education . So that's amazing .

Speaker 2 2:52

When did ?

Speaker 1 2:52

you first hear , or how do you first hear about Brown for REH and the impact ?

Speaker 2 2:56

So it's so funny I was getting my doing my research with getting my doctoral degree . My doctoral degree focused on the lack of African-Americans in the field of dental hygiene . Being a program director in academia , I saw a lot of disparities in diversity for students that will come to the program and are successful in programming . That kind of really launched the book as well . But in my research I learned about you and your work and in fact you may not know this but I would love to even your work and in fact you may not know this but I would love to even get you a copy of it .

Speaker 2 3:26

But I actually quoted you in my dissertation and so I was super excited and it just made me learn and follow you so much more , follow Brown Girl RDH so much more . And then I just been so busy but I knew this was one of my checkoffs to definitely get connected . Get connected to the people who have been doing the work in terms of really bringing about this industry for our community . I mean we need it . We have great disparities of oral health in our communities and we need clinicians that look like us , who are able to speak to and be effective in those communities . So that's how I learned about us and I've been following you ever since and really , you know , if I can have a downtime , really try to you know , do what I can do to contribute to your success .

Speaker 1 4:12

Oh my gosh . So no , I don't even know how many quotes I've said . All I know is boots to the ground and I just kept like just tracking the pavement , like I just have to keep going . I didn't know where I was going , but I just knew what we needed just being in the industry and not seeing anyone that looked like me in every office that I ever went in my dental hygiene school . I graduated in 2012 in upstate New York . So upstate New York , it's not a lot of minorities in the program . I think I was the only one , and I was the only one with a baby . So my thing was like I wasn't even supposed to be there . I knew I had to work harder and I knew there were other challenges to overcome and I knew it wasn't just me .

Speaker 1 4:51

When I was a little girl , I used to be like well , why aren't there any brown Disney princesses ? I really thought like that you know how people say it's in you Moving forward . I look like me , because I don't think there's anything out here , because every office that I worked in I was only the only black ones . I was like what's going on ? And I just remembered in dental hygiene school you know when I got that first orientation list , it was like all of this stuff and all this money . And I was like let me go to the pawn shop . I started taking gold earrings off , gold chains off and it just wasn't enough . So I'm like you know what ? I'm not going . I didn't know about student loans , I didn't know about any of that stuff . But it was funny because I got pregnant with my daughter in high school . I always wanted to be a dentist and when I got pregnant I was like , yep , that's not going to happen .

Speaker 1 5:31

I had to figure out what's next . And then I saw the community college and I'm like it's either cosmetology or it's a dental hygiene school . And I said , you know , I just had a baby and I want to get in this program

Breaking into dental hygiene

Speaker 1 5:44

. And they were like you should do dental assisting , you have a baby . It's very competitive . And I was like I actually did the certificate program for dental assisting already . I took it . It was online . I actually was working in an office , saw how the hygienists were . I saw the autonomy that they had as far as like working with their own patients , the run there , run there . I'm like how do I do it ? You do . And of course , the dental hygienist didn't look like me , but she had a Hummer and in my mind I was like I need a Hummer .

Speaker 1 6:08

Remember back when everybody had Hummers and you were like , ooh , they were rich if they had a Hummer . She's like , no , it's so hard and programs hard and whatnot . And I was just like I'm smart , education is not going . Challenge was financial support being able to not work had to work on the weekends at the Home Depot they tell you not to work and then taking out student loans and you know , selling things to get what I needed and trying to put my daughter in daycare but got through the program . I had a 4.0 . The entire time I had a 4.0 . But I had an attitude too , because I'm like y'all are crying about washing the dishes and I got a baby with a fever . Right now we are not the same .

Speaker 1 6:42

It made me understand like everybody doesn't have the same journey and different walks of life have to work a little bit harder . So then , in 2020 , black Lives Matter , trust me I started Brown Girl RDH in 2018 . And I remember my very first conference with RDH Under One Roof and I had Brown Girl RDH and I had brownies that like they were turning their nose up , like imagine probably five or six minorities and they would come and they were like , oh my God , this is so amazing . I didn't know there was something called Brown RDA . Let me learn more . And you know , I was so excited and young at the time and I just remember somebody would just walk past and act like they didn't see us , Like I'm not going to look that way and some people really embrace what we were doing .

Speaker 1 7:19

We were doing the work before we got there , so I was taking money out of my pocket , paying for instruments , paying for board fees , like I was doing it , and I was just posting to what I was doing , like literally working and paying it , and nobody gave a handout , there was no grants , there was none of that . I was just doing it myself until I started reaching out to companies and like I don't want money , let me get a handpiece . Then I started partnering with like young dental Q optics , like these kids need loops , can you sponsor loops ? And they were like sure , we can give our product . And it shifted because most nonprofits , when they start , it's all about like , let's raise money , let's raise money . I'm like I'm putting my own money in . I just need your product , I need your uniforms , I need your instruments , like there's stuff that we cannot afford .

Speaker 2 8:08

So that's how we started , because now I look back at it , I see organizations .

Speaker 1 8:09

They're trying to do the same thing . When 2020 happened it is Black Lives Matter Everybody was like , oh my gosh , they jumped on the diversity train and everybody was diversity experts . So it was just like I've been saying this the whole time . So the authenticity you know , that was two years in the making , three years in the making and authenticity people really gravitated towards me like you know what it is . You've've been doing this and that's when this podcast started , because you're like we don't even have a black dental hygiene podcast . Things are changing .

Speaker 2 8:27

Now we're back off the diversity chain but a lot of that too , was , you know , just presentation where , without a lot of substance , in the background , it was like , yeah , let's include , you know , a black person in it or let's include an african-american in it . Yeah , to say , yeah , we , we were doing something and it didn't really speak to or maybe add resolve to some of the true disparities that have that happened with African Americans who are trying to really attain this career field . But that's really why you know well , that kind of is one of the big reasons as to why I wrote the dental hygiene hack . It was a sort of like a tip off of the dissertation , which was the work that you were already doing , recognizing that we're looking at the numbers , looking at the disparities and , just like you're saying , when you got into hygiene school , you may not realize , oh my God , I'm going to have to buy a $1 , hundred dollar pair of loops or I got to do . And so the hygiene hack really does give that upfront information to people who are interested in this industry . It tells you things like when you come in , you're not going to be able to wear your tattoos visibly and you're going to have to depend on your peers as a , you know a good resource and if you don't already have your home life together , this is where you know we're going to give you that real story as to what to expect in terms of preparing yourself . You know , if you have kids .

Speaker 2 9:58

Oftentimes , you know , like you said , african Americans have different struggles coming into the industry than others , just because culturally and communally we are just . You know we face different challenges . But if you didn't know that , oh my gosh , I'm going to have to be in the school . You know so many hours a week and I didn't know that clinic courses were four hours and I got to find my own patients and you know a lot of academia . We really don't share that information , even the application process .

Speaker 2 10:27

We're kind of thought when I did the research , a lot of the research pointed to oh well , african-americans just don't score well in science courses or they're not really good in math , so this is why they fail out . Well , I kind of like challenge that . Is that really why we're failing out ? Could it be the lack of representation that we're seeing , the lack of support that they're getting ? Could it also be some of the other financial challenges and burdens ? So I wrote that to really speak to those things prior to getting yourself into the program and it's a way really to prepare to be successful in the program and it's a way really to prepare to be successful in the program .

Speaker 1 11:05

I think a guide is needed and the foundation needs to be there , because one , if you don't have support , you have people who are saying , like you can't do that , like nobody ever does that , why would you even want to be in somebody's mouth then somebody who was very unsure , didn't have that confidence instilled in them or didn't know who they were . But be like , yeah , you're right , let me , let me go try something else , and then it might put them on a different path . So , yeah , with that mentorship support . I used to say BrownGuardi , it's just like the aunties , like the auntie that you needed , that you didn't have . Like we are . We are here now . But you know , the industry in itself is changing . The generations are changing . Now , all of the members and stuff , the people who started with BrandBrand , they're mommies and they have families now and they're married . Back then they were not . That was seven years ago . So now this new generation is the microwave generation is not fast enough . I don't work for it . Tell me the answers you know .

Speaker 2 11:54

Well , I'll add to that . This new generation is like , if you're correcting them , you know , oh my gosh , I'm going to go to the Dean , I'm going to go to the president of the college that . Someone corrected me . I've literally had students hire attorneys because they failed a class . Not only just hire attorneys , but they go out to I've had them go out to their councilmen because or their senators because they failed a class and they were unsuccessful to get them back in the class .

Speaker 2 12:23

It has been a challenge to hold on to the values . I remember when I was in a hygiene school . I'm not going to say like I was fearful of my faculty , but I definitely had a level of respect for the experiences and knowledge that they brought to the table and then where they were going to take me . So nowadays it's not like that . We're so open and available for information . You can hardly teach sometimes without someone already looking at ChatGPT to either challenge your thought or the moment . So it's unique , it's a very unique time . It doesn't mean that it's not possible , but it does mean that we do have to challenge our pedagogy to learning and how we extend our information to today's learners , because it's very different .

Speaker 1 13:15

I really just shake my head and it's sad , because the things that I see as far as professionalism , even from some doctors , it's like , oh , would you like , what are you doing ? Like on social media , and it's like you're really doing that . Like what patient's going to take you serious , like the patient that is putting their health in your hands does not want to see their provider dancing and twerking .

Speaker 2 13:35

Now the other thing when you think about professionalism , we think about the recent Nevada situation

Brown Girl RDH's journey

Speaker 2 13:43

where they were trying to remove all of education for hygienists and say , oh yeah , we can just train them in office . And that's very concerning . It's a threat to public health . Many times patients don't understand the significance of being a licensed professional . So that was , it was very scary . I was so glad that that didn't pass , but at the same time , please don't , you know , think that that's not going to be a whole , you know , force of other bills and other states who really want to see the industry change . So we have to be careful , we have to be very careful and just abreast on what's happening .

Speaker 1 14:23

I think it starts with the level of respect they are viewing the dental hygiene profession . Like anybody can do it . What is happening in the profession ? To where anyone would even challenge that ? They're not doing it to MDs , they're not doing it to nurses .

Speaker 2 14:35

No , I think we're on the same page with that , because I think the same thing Like why hygiene ? You know what are we doing in our profession that is , allowing that gap to be regarded in a way that ? But yet we're saying we are licensed professionals . I'm also a chief board examiner , so I do oversee , like , board exams for hygiene throughout different institutions and I will say that I see a very different presentation on how students even show up for their board exams . I mean , some of them forget to even have on scrubs , even though it's a mannequin exam . You know we are informed to still show up as if this was a , you know , a regular patient exam . So they're lacking PPE . They don't seem kind of prepared sometimes . So it's a real difference .

Speaker 2 15:28

I totally remember my exam . I mean I wouldn't say I stalked my patient , but I literally like showed up two hours , like five o'clock in the morning like please don't go anywhere , please show up . And you know it was very accommodating for my patient . You know , just looking over my notes constantly just wanting to be prepared . But here it's just the kind of casual . They may . They may come to the board exam late or you know it's it's . It's a difference .

Speaker 1 15:54

There needs to be something in between high school graduation and real life before they even get to college to interview and like this is how you present , this is how you act , this is how you talk , this is what you expect . These are the real world . I was prepped in high school about what the real world was going to be like .

Speaker 2 16:11

Right , definitely , and I think . And then there's a whole system in place that doesn't allow for that communication . But this is a shameless plug because I want to say that's definitely what the hygiene hack does . It really speaks to those things that are in between your . You know , your cycle , your transition , your journey . But I totally agree , I do see that there is a disconnect between the expectations of high school , from K-12 coming into even community college , and I see that there are shortages and there's barriers for all , not to say that we don't have strong teachers of education in K-12 nor for college , but it is to say that there is some disconnect and it's a whole system of non-support . But I will say that on the good note is that we do have organizations such as yourself , who have been on the forefront since you began to notice those barriers , to really speak to them and then also apply some resolve to help and support , you know , students along the way .

Speaker 1 17:16

I think this will be a great resource and I would love to get with you to see how can we share it with some of our students and what that looks like , because we do have a large group of student members . Will you be at the Brown River RDH conference ? I ?

Speaker 2 17:28

will , I will , I will , I will , I will . So I was . I was fussing through whether or not I could do and I'm still kind of like I don't know if I'm late or not , but I was fussing whether or not I should do a table . I've been wanting to do a table , but I had a commitment for another venue at the time that someone else is going to handle for me so I could be at stronger RDH . So I'm still fussing . I still really want to man a table there and see how that can work , because I think that would be great .

Speaker 1 17:57

So what we do with the community is anyone who is a member at the conference can be a vendor and have a table as long as you're a member . So we like to pour into who supports them , meaning they have a paid membership with Brown Girl RDH Last year we had that in bonnets and then we had books and t-shirts , so we always allow that . I think the dental hygiene hack is going to be a great resource . Ok , so mentorship matters . Do you have any mentors outside of the field or in the field ?

Speaker 2 18:25

You know , that's that's interesting . I've had two really great mentors along my journey . That one was a faculty of mine and she's been someone who I can reach out to and call and and in fact she's

Generational challenges in dental education

Speaker 2 18:41

been very inspirational in my journey in terms of the Maryland Dental Hygienist Association , getting into other forms of hygiene , like creating my CE courses and things like that . I will say that outside of hygiene it's been very interesting because I've been more of a mentor to mentees , if that , if that makes sense , and you always kind of feel a little empty in that spot , if you know . I mean it's just like I don't know if it's because hygiene is such a narrow industry that you know you , it's hard to find those relationships .

Speaker 2 19:28

But I have been able to establish a relationship recently with a young lady who she's established a school , the first African-American to establish a . She does like solar panels , she teaches students how to do solar panels . So I've been connecting with her . The exchange has been very valuable , very fruitful and I feel so blessed and lucky to be able to , you know , connect and lucky to be able to , you know , connect . But again , it's just kind of trying to find those rooms to step in to establish that relationship and connection and that trust between someone . It's been a little challenging , and maybe because we all are so busy , but I think it's more important now than ever to be able to just like reach out and just you know , even if it's once a month , hey , how are you , how's your mental , how are things going ? Is there anything I can do to you know , help you to advance or help you in your journey ?

Speaker 1 20:24

So yeah , Sometimes I'm stuck in the same boat because I'm usually pretty much a resource to people . So when you find people like , oh my goodness , where were you all my life , it's draining . When you're not a friend , you're not a contact , you're literally a resource for people .

Speaker 2 20:37

So right , yeah , it feels a little bit isolating , because you're like I'm really trying to find that person who can match my energy . In that sense , Like you , we may be a lot alike in that , where you know I have a lot of friends , but our energy and our journeys are different . You know , if I'm in a room of women , I'm probably thinking in that room , Now what are all of our occupations in this room , and how can we bring it together and make something out of it ? Whereas , though , they may be thinking and it's not wrong , one is not more than the other but they may be thinking where can we go on vacation ? So it's challenging , it's definitely challenging .

Speaker 1 21:21

It is , but you know that's why the 1% is the 1% .

Speaker 2 21:24

Yep , that's so true , that's so true .

Speaker 1 21:29

Okay , so any valuable lessons that you've learned that you'd like to share ? I ?

Speaker 2 21:34

think I kind of thought about this before too is that I just keep going , even when I don't really understand the why . I think that sometimes we're

Mentorship and professional growth

Speaker 2 21:45

I'm a Virgo so a lot of times I will like question , like , okay , why am I doing this , why am I doing that ? And sometimes you know , life just needs you to continue to move and your why will be there at the end of your you know your goal . Don't always question it , particularly when it comes to servancy , where our paths have crossed . I mean you had no idea that I actually read more on you than here and actually quoted you .

Speaker 2 22:11

So having this recycle back to this interview is just , it's wonderful and it's intentional , and I don't think it's by mistake at all . I think it's intentional . I think that there's probably things that we will be working on in the future , at least hopefully . But again , that to me is is something that's been precious to me . And then obedience over understanding , like when you really are obedient to what it is you desire in life and not always question it , you'll see that life is going to and the universe is going to support you back . I don't know . I just I think those things have been able I've been able to use to keep me afloat , I think .

Speaker 1 22:48

Good . So the universe doesn't give you what you ask .

Speaker 1 22:50

It gives you what you are yes , you want it all day but I think people just really have to believe you have to ask for clarity and the clarity doesn't come just because you're asking . You have to actually make progress towards it and then you're like , okay , this makes sense . Thank you so much for even adding a quote or anything about me , because I'm always like , if you , if you know me , if anybody knows me , I never like to be in the front conferences or anything Like . I'm always putting people on the platform and in reality , most people in the industry . They want to be the first forefront , they want to be the ambassador , they want to do things . So when I used to get sponsorship deals with any kind of brand products , I would use the ambassadors , I would use the girls , I would use the students , if that makes sense .

Speaker 2 23:31

Oh , that makes a lot of sense . That makes a lot of sense . And again , that's that shared work . I mean , that's something that I lead by being a program director . You really do . If you're not like challenging those who are under you or who you're leading , you're not getting the best out of it and if they look good , you're always going to look good , even if you have to come at , you know , the last curtain call . Then you're out just to show face . But , honestly , that's what I love to do . I love to create

The Dental Hygiene Hack app

Speaker 2 23:58

behind the scenes , I love to see it come to fruition . And it really isn't about me , it is about you know the journey , the purpose .

Speaker 2 24:07

There are so many nights where I believe in question OK , why am I writing this book ? What do I see in it ? But I put five years of research and talking to students , talking to faculty . I would do like after every cohort , graduation and before a cohort came in twice a year . I do like what is called the Vegas phone call .

Speaker 2 24:28

We do a Zoom call , tell everybody on the call , rename yourself on the call so I don't know who you are because their names are going to show up . So name yourself as a cartoon character and then I just ask them , you know , just honest questions . Speak to the questions . This is not about , you know , being like a session of just complaints , but I want to hear what your challenges are . I want to hear what your stories are because I want to create something that's going to help the next generation come along . So it's been a lot of research , it's been a lot of talking and really trying to get their story . I kind of see it as like the students wrote the book , the faculty wrote the book , you know .

Speaker 1 25:12

You have to be able to connect with your audience and if you're marketing to students , you have to know you're not a student , so you have to know your audience , and I think that's where people get it off track , like who are ? You doing it for Right . I know I can't do or say certain things because I know who my audience is .

Speaker 2 25:23

Right , that was the whole idea too , behind the app . I had no idea I was going to create an app . All I knew is that every time a class would speak , somebody in the class maybe one , two or maybe even three , and even as a program director , somebody was failing out because they did not meet a clinic requirement , they didn't have their class two patients , they didn't have a competency , and I'm like there's gotta be some way that we can unify this thing across the country , everybody using the same technique . And how do we do it when we're speaking to this generation ? The generation has their phone with everything they do . So I created it where all of their comps , from semester to semester to semester , no matter what school they're in , can be uploaded onto their phones .

Speaker 2 26:14

Their patient information could be there in a typical compliant , and they're able to track , they're able to measure their performance , they're able to get it even sends off notifications like okay , we're halfway through the semester and you haven't gotten your arresting comp , or hey , your GPA is dropping in . You know your patient calc classifications , or you know . Or hey , you did a fantastic job , you met that goal . So it really does help them to stay on track and I think that's what students use . They like technology . So it was just like I found a um developer and got with them and was like , okay , the rest is history . But yeah , speaking to your audience is is for sure .

Speaker 1 26:58

Where can people find you ? Everywhere .

Speaker 2 27:02

My students help to keep me relevant . So on all social media , we're on Facebook , we're on Instagram , we're on LinkedIn . I have my own website itself , tdjeffriesconsultinggroupcom . You guys can find me there and as I make my way around more and more schools , I have so many institutions right now lined up to do presentations on the book , the app and just information , so feel free to DM me .

Speaker 1 27:32

Students or potential students DM me all the time now and so if anyone does DM you or you have any students , refer them to Brown Bar RDH . We have a lump sum of money every year and if we don't use it it goes back to our sponsors .