Dissecting Martyrs 2008 | New French Extremity Horror | Spoiler-free

Hello, Horrorphiles. In this episode, we dissect the 2008 French Extremity classic,  Martyrs. Directed by Pascal Laugier and staring Mylène Jampanoï and Morjiana Alaoui.

“Lucie is plagued by reoccurring nightmares of when she was abducted and tortured in an abandoned slaughterhouse. Determined to overcome her trauma, she enlists fellow abuse survivor, Anna to help her enact revenge. Finding their picture in the local paper, Lucie tracks down her captors, but Anna questions Lucie’s sanity as she slowly spirals into madness. Described by The Telegraph as the greatest horror movie of the 21st century, MARTYRS is a groundbreaking, relentlessly disturbing horror that employs shocking violence and haunting visuals to tell its bleak tale of abuse and vengeance” according to Shudder.

This is Dissecting Horror: Examining the anatomy of fear in film, television and literature with Kelsey Zukowski and Steven Aguilera.

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Transcript

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Hello, Horrorphiles. You're listening to Dissecting Horror, examining the anatomy of fear in film, television and literature. I am filmmaker Steven Aguilera. I'm writer and performer Kelsey Zukowski. In this episode, we'll examine the 2008 French Extremity film Martyrs. We'll explain what that means momentarily. This dissection will be spoiler free. We are the horror whisperers, you're champions of horror and keepers of the fearscape, On this podcast of frightsome delights, if you will. I will. And we hope you will join us, too, won't you? Lucy is plagued by recurring nightmares of when she was abducted and tortured in an abandoned slaughterhouse. Determined to overcome her trauma, she enlists fellow abuse survivor Anna to help her enact revenge. Finding their picture in a local paper. Lucy tracks down her captors, but Anna questions Lucy's sanity as she slowly spirals into madness. Described by The Telegraph as the greatest horror movie of the 21st century, Martyrs is a groundbreaking, relentlessly disturbing horror that implies shocking violence and haunting visuals to tell its bleak tale of abuse and vengeance. According to Shudder. written and directed by Pascal Lowy. John, sorry for the butchering. I won't even try to pronounce the actor's name. It's French. Okay, let's try. It's Lucy is played by Marlene Jum Panahi. Anna is played by more Jonna Ally. We there are what, six letters in her last name and five of them are vowels. Regardless, the casting and performances were extraordinary. So far on this podcast, we haven't really dug as deeply into foreign horror. Aside from our Christmas horror episode with the offbeat yet deliciously dread filled rare exports. It seemed about time to dissect another cultural take on the face of fear, a la French horror While there are certainly powerful American horror films, I largely feel foreign horror just manages to cut a little deeper and explore those dark and dreaded realities of human existence in a more profound way. French horror has a very poetic and complex nature to it that can be equally beautiful and enthralling and utterly brutal and disquieting. The new wave of French extremity really hit me in the early 2000, ignited some of the strongest reactions of me of indie horror films to this date. These films really show the power and potential of horror. Taking the darkness, depravity, fear, and even unimaginable perseverance and strength and humanity among such unrelenting vileness and using horror to creatively give a new life to it. In a way, these films shy away from nothing. Having a raw, ferocious quality to them full of gore. But the blood and torment are full of purpose and really an artistic vehicle to expose and explore the evils of the world, The true damage of such torment, and the importance of holding onto yourself, resisting the condemnation of those who seek to keep you captive in their malice to go off. A quote from the director actually really hits on the power and importance of this wave of horror and partially what he brought in this film. Quote, The film is a personal reaction to the darkness of our world. And I like the paradox within horror films take the worst of the human condition and transform it into art, into beauty. It's the only genre that offers this kind of dialectic. And I've always found this idea very moving to create emotion with the saddest, most depressing things in existence. So Stephen and the other first timers to the subgenre welcome to the wonderful world of French Extremity cinema. It was certainly my initial foray into it. I had heard of similar themed pieces from around that era, but there were more. We've got to be careful about our language sexual based nature and violence along those lines are what I'd heard. But I haven't actually watched anything along those lines. So extremity, new extremity or often new French extremity, among other variations, describes films from around roughly the turn of the 21st century that cause scandal and controversy, notably for including graphic images of violence, especially sexual and other forms of body horror. So they tend to be so extreme, in fact, that it often makes the viewer question if enjoying such content is even moral. I felt actually a bit of Japanese horror, a little bit on flavors here and there, notes of that. And even at the end it went a bit Stanley Kubrickian if I can not coin that word. All right, I've heard mixed reactions from people who were very disturbed or upset or disgusted with this film couldn't quite bring themselves to say that they enjoyed it, but were at least intrigued. And I definitely was intrigued. But I will say that for myself personally, I. I loved this movie with no reservations. All right. We finally did it in front of film. Yeah. I was going to ask you out of curiosity, did you did you predict I would like this film or not like this film? You just didn't carry the way you were going to. Well, I knew it was time for some foreign film and French is just me among some of my favorite modern horror films, and I just really extremity like it really has a lot of just power and beauty to it, but also just French horror as a whole. Just houses very like I feel like they really kind of utilize, you know, what they see in the world or the human condition and kind of creatively infuse it into horror, like really just using all of the elements as a part of the artistry down to the gore. So I felt like it was time we dove into just this branch of horror cinema. But I figure it at least, I mean, it's I really haven't spoken to most people who didn't think this was film was powerful in some way or another, whether it made them uncomfortable, whether it was, you know, too much or not. Again, I mostly talked to diehard horror fans. So most people are in the camp of appreciating that more than anything. But yeah, I was a little on the fence. I figured you would appreciate the the artistry of it, but yeah, overall, take away this prize. Mm hmm. Well, we both know my stance on screaming women, That was the biggest danger, if anything, was just too much screaming. But considering what they're going through. Yeah, they're. There was a significant amount of screaming, but it didn't bother me since it wasn't screaming in the form of cowardice, but more through torment or anguish, which somehow was okay with me. I guess. More importantly though, it was from characters that I was rooting for. I actually realized something while watching the 2015 American remake, which we'll be covering in our next podcast. Subscribe. As we know, I tend to be very perturbed by screeching, screaming women in horror films, but what occurred to me was that this only really holds true for characters I'm not invested in. But if the characters are solid and I'm rooting for them she can scream any way she wants as much as she wants, and it will actually work in a way that the filmmakers intended. Yeah, it's interesting. Like if you're invested and care about the character, then you can kind of go there, but it's more when it's someone you don't care about and it's just this annoying, sort of frivolous, I guess, high, high pitched squeal that it becomes more annoying. But I'm glad that, you know, nothing was taken away here. And yeah, I think if anything it's like as they're suffering and fighting and enduring everything, it's almost it's both show of just the human vulnerability and just being a vehicle for the trauma and cruel illness and violence in the world. But it's also sort of a show of strength and survival in a way. The only real complaint I have is that being in French, it has subtitles. And we both know how I feel about reading. And yes, even reading subtitles irks me. But it didn't. It wasn't like a film that was really heavy in dialog. It was more walls graphic. And so they probably want you to watch all this graphic stuff versus listening to much of dialog anyway. But yeah, I, I didn't have too much of a problem with. I watched a couple of times and I thought, well, maybe I needed to reread a couple of things because I might have missed a point or two. But overall, process of subtitles, it didn't really detract. There's a distraction to it because you have to look down and read what what the fuck they're saying, but you want to see what's happening at the same time. So my attention is divided. But you you said once, I think you watch movies with the subtitles anyway, even in English. Not always. It's only if I. If I think, like, I might miss something. Like, it's usually sometimes if it's like, you know, a sort of strong accent, like right? yeah, I will sometimes if I don't need them, I don't. But I do. I love a lot of foreign horror foreign films, period. So I will gladly take the subtitles. But for me, what is more distracting is dubbing I, I owe like dubbing because it just never sounds natural and it takes me out of it. I have an affinity for it in Bad Kung Fu movies, there's a certain charm to it. It adds to the cheesiness somehow. But beyond that, I think I may have seen something like maybe the orphanage age or something. I don't remember that had that and it was fine. I get into it after a while, but it's awkward, at least in the beginning. confusingly, when I see the rating on Shudder's TV app, it has five out of five skulls. But on Shudder's website it has four out of five skulls. On Rotten Tomatoes. It has a critic score of 64% and audience score of 69%. It's always disconcerting when the rest of the general population doesn't see a movie the same way I did. One starts to feel a bit Gaslit Gaslighted. Whenever the past tense of gaslight is, but it makes me question whether I actually did like it as much as I thought. I remember seeing Star Wars episode seven, eight and nine, which remember really liking them coming out of the theater and it was after hearing all the criticisms follow ing before even rewatching any of them, I decided I didn't care for them as much anymore. And I'm I find that disconcerting because it makes me feel like I'm too easily swayed by other people's opinions. But I, I really don't think so. I, I actually agreed with too many of their points but didn't think about these things while the movie was happening. I was letting myself just watch the movie and be immersed in it. So I think this movie is different because it isn't just about how good the movie was. it was affected by how disturbed people were when watching it. And they they might rate the film based partially on the fact that it upset them versus how good the film actually was, how well-made it was by the filmmakers. And so the ratings can be a bit confused. I think I think any experienced that you have with a film, mean it's valid no matter what, it's how you experience it and how you felt. And there are films that that was entertaining or enjoyable or I was engaged in it. And then you can look at it critically and be, oh, you know, different flaws brought up or say, okay, yes, that is all valid. That could have been better story wise or, you know, whatever it may be. But you can definitely have enjoyment for something. As we you know, we recently had your guilty pleasure episode, so we know that you can enjoy something with still pointing out where maybe there were flaws or things that could have been better. But yeah, this one, I think people are definitely going to have a big reaction to one way or another. again, it's not how I view it at all, but you could have the take away that this really was even French extremity as a whole is sometimes labeled as a exploitative genre, which is really further from what the point and purpose of it is at all. But it is extreme violence. Not so much in this film, but there can be, you know, excessive nudity, violence, sometimes sexual, you know, situations along with that violence and just very, very over-the-top gore. But again, it's not it's the way that it's done. It's really a metaphor for whatever it is that that filmmaker is trying to explore throughout the world. And just like the human condition and possibilities here, a big focus is just a look at human monsters. And I think a big part is that just that power and extremist thinking. No matter what's the core or purpose of a religious, political, you know, anything beyond that and just how dangerous that extremist mentality can be. So it's more if there's like, for example, there was Human Centipede is one that when I knew you know, obviously has a reputation for being very disturbing. But it really depends on, I guess, what you take away from it as the viewer and kind of what you feel the intent or purposes or is there a purpose? Because that was one, I watched it and it really took me a minute to soak it in and be like, How do I feel about this film? And I had to really like think about it. And I was definitely on the bridge of this. Could be really powerful and brilliant or this can be utter trash. And I decided this is utter trash, partially because it seemed like shock felt for the sake of it. And there was a lot of great areas for potential to explore what you know, this doctor, what is the reason that he's doing this? And, you know, so many different elements from the the victim, from the captor perspective, a lot of which, you know, is present here as well. But none of that was really explored. And the themes and the story really was backseat to everything else where I feel like this is the opposite. But yeah, in the end, if there's not a purpose or points, then it's just, exploitative and shock value and, and that's all that it really is. But if there is a story and something a point that they're trying to explore an expression, then it's art and to me, this one is very strongly on the art side of that. I remember years ago a friend saw that Spielberg film A.I. Artificial Intelligence, and I asked her how it was, and she said with such disdain, it sucked. I asked her why it is a Spielberg film, sci fi right up your alley, and she just said It just sucked. And after a bit of questioning, I realized that it wasn't the quality of the film that she found bad. But some of the subject matter, it just really triggered her specifically some harm. Coming to a child or an Android child or something like that. So she wasn't actually talking about the quality of the film at all. And these days, whenever someone says a film doctor was terrible, I clarify, was it was it actually badly made or you just didn't like it? There's a difference. I also know someone who repeatedly stated that Baba Duke was terrible. He just kept saying, Oh, that movie was terrible. And I I know the guy. And so based on my knowledge of him, I'm pretty sure it was because you just found that kid really annoying and it just grated his nerves throughout the whole thing. And so he just protested or rejected the film as a whole for that reason. I do think it's arrogance to declare a movie is bad just because it didn't align with your taste or to hate a movie because an actor in it reminded you of your 10th grade math teacher. Yeah, no, I agree. There's a lot of films. I'm like, That film does absolutely nothing for me. I do not like it. But I also recognize if it's especially if it's just not like a genre sub John aren't particularly into. It's just not my type of film that doesn't necessarily mean someone else can't get immense enjoyment out of it, or I can even respect what they're doing, but not personally like it. There is something to be said, though, for filmmakers who I think do get off on making an audience feel uncomfortable. They're what's the guy who did Midsommar Ari Aster Yeah, I think I get a little bit of that vibe from him. Like he's just trying to make you squirm in your seat. He did Hereditary. Yeah, I haven't seen his last film yet, which I've heard some polarizing reactions to, but it really seems like he's very into trauma, just like every one of his films is just deeply, deeply traumatic in that experience of it, which I haven't I haven't read enough of about him in his life to know where that comes from. But that seems to be the thing that he likes to explore. So yeah, it's definitely anything disturbing, you know, it's which I have respect for because that's part of I feel like one of the great things about horror is, is nothing necessarily to taboo. It's there to take a looking deeper lens at to the uncomfortable ugliness that is in the world or you know, things that we experience and it's sort of even even through kind of amping it up, whether it be like very bloody or just, you know, this, it's usually extreme things happening to a person that's just pushing the limits of what they can like physically, emotionally endure and just seeing what that does to a person. But through amping that up, it can kind of whether it be related ability or just adds a certain power or understanding that even if you're not saying this is literally adjacent to what might happen to someone in life, it's usually more of an extreme. But through that extreme it it becomes more powerful, which is a great avenue and thing that horror is capable of even getting back to Star Wars, you know, put Star Wars in every episode somehow. But Orion Johnson, who did The Last Jedi, is famous for, quote, subverting expectations, unquote. And I think he's another one that that gets a kick out of making people uncomfortable. He said something like that to some extent in a quote from from years before. But Paul Thomas Anderson, I think is another one. I remember coming out of the theater after seeing Magnolia with my friend Tall, and he asked me, So what do you think? And without really considering it, I, I said, one of my favorite things I've ever said. I said I really liked it, but I never want to see it again. And it was apt in that I actually did end up seeing it again on Blu ray later, but it was very uncomfortable to watch. But it was also so well-done and well-acted and there is a balance there But I don't feel like the filmmakers here. If we can finally get back to talking about martyrs, we're out to torture the audience. That may well happen as a side effect, but it was more like they were trying to just tell an intense story. It wasn't gratuitous. It wasn't torture. CORN The violence had a reason. It was shocking, but it wasn't trying to shock for the sake of shock value. It just wouldn't really work unless you took it that far. And there was a story and a message and a vision with characters that you were conflicted about. No clear cut Hollywood heroines or heroes. It was messy. It was raw. And I found that refreshing. martyrs and as an ongoing thing in a lot of French extremity films, the torture and the hero has to endure it shouldn't make the viewer uncomfortable, full of rage and sorrow on the on their behalf of what they're going through. It's meant to be almost like you're experiencing it second hand to this person and just that gritty uncomfortableness and all of the emotions that it stirs up. That's really a major part of the point in wanting to fight, wanting to see them rise above against the odds. It uses these extreme elements showing the threat of tormenting and ripping away a person from skin to spirit. Just show the extent of the depravity. Getting us to bring a lens to our own world and the cruelty that is often rationalized and tucked away in our society. Nice thing about such a film from 2008 is that it predates the current trend of shoehorning all kinds of political messaging, which out of habit I kept expecting to kick in the stars to female leads but doesn't make the villains out to be the patriarchy or some thinly veiled Trump like character. There were no themes of race, immigration, identity politics, marginalized groups, etc. this is pure storytelling. Without a gender, you can make a movie about those things as long as it fits the actual subject matter, and that's fine. they weren't there to do some shallow, gimmicky kind of show, but devoted themselves, especially the actors, wholly to an incredibly intense performances. This may be the most intense or extreme movie of I've ever seen that I was really into. Anyway, it found a way to engage me without repelling me too much. So there was a good balance there. Witnessing our main characters committing such horrific acts caused some inner conflict in me as to whether I should be rooting for them. but the atrocities by all parties always still had some valid justification or logic to them. It's nuance, not black and white. And despite all the literally crazy things these women were doing, we could still sympathize with them, which is not an easy trick to pull off as a whole. I would say it's definitely the the villains are, you know, more obviously in the in the wrong here and representing just the the sort of cautionary tale of any extremist thinking and how throughout the history of our world, in many, many cases time and time again, you can rationalize any well-meaning thing, whether it be, you know, for the good of all or, you know, here it's pushing and pushing the human mind and body through its capabilities to get answers, you know, potentially that are out there that one can only grasp when they're at that point maybe just have the shaky balance between life and death. our heroines here, so to speak, are definitely not blameless. They have you you feel for them, especially with Lucy and the trauma she went through at a very early age. And even upon being able to escape the grasp of her captives, she was able, to somewhat, you know, have at least a chance at a normal life, but was still haunted by a very literal psychological demon that these just that the trauma released and kept alive in her. So it was really just a desperation to try feeling that vengeance was the only answer to be free. Even if that didn't unlock her cage, they could create, a chance for her to try to come away from this. But in the end, she's also still another another sort of pawn in this endless cycle of violence and unrest. So in a way, she's still a part of the problem, in a way of fighting fire with fire when it's just constant cruelty and bleakness in the world. And that's all that there is. It's just a perpetuating cycle. So you definitely feel for her. you want her to kind of fight forward and find a way to, like, get past this, but ultimately, a bigger part of the point isn't necessarily right or wrong. It's more it's more just the potential of what this type of world could look like. It was intriguing to consider why they were doing these things, why it was happening. And as much as I wanted to see our heroines get away, I was equally intrigued by where this was going. There wasn't a predictable structure or journey I think that was one of my favorite things about it is that you think the story is going to go a certain way based on how it starts. Even the first I don't know, 2 minutes, there's a fake out. You think, Oh, wow, this the story. There's something specific happening between these two characters struggling and it's like, Oh, wow. It just went a complete different direction and then you see the first five or 10 minutes play out and you think, Oh, these people aren't on the poster. Where is this going? And you're becoming invested in them. And they took the time to really show you these people in the world and then things would get turned on their head big time. Think, Wow, okay, I didn't see that coming. And then that goes on for like half the movie. Then it's like, Wow, okay, that happened. So where are they going to go from here? And I was just so mesmerized. it could theoretically be that they were still following your standard three act structure, and it was just so well disguised in their their story. But it was just so refreshing to see a film where they they didn't give to Fox at all about making things fit any kind of model. it was very creative and fresh. And then you get these performances, which were just unbelievable and, the casting the children who play the later adult leads, they're the perfect representation physically. And I don't know how they do it. Usually it's in France. How many actors could be in France? You think these small like British, you know, they still have this huge repertoires of people who probably take their craft much more seriously than than we even do. But it feels like every step of it was done with such care by someone who really was passionate about their story and carried their vision through from the writing process throughout the filmmaking, in production and post-production. So it wasn't like just a bunch of random people who didn't really care about each other or even know each other. Doing it was like almost a family project, and I was really impressed by that. Even though clearly it was low budget and limited location, they really milked everything they could out of what resources they had and it worked. think that's one of the things that definitely stands out about it. Really, really sharp, powerful writing. And it is kind of this constant twisting and turning sort of labyrinth of a story in itself of where is this going to go? And yeah, you, you think you're on one path and it goes a completely different and it just really keeps you enticed and gripped and where is this going to go? And then with a really, really powerful ending, which I think that the ending itself, without saying anything, definitely extremely powerful and just leaves you with the core of the story that they were trying to tell and the commentary and forewarning of sort of the darkness in our world and what that can really look like and just how twisted even know it it can leave you on. I agree it also and that the acting was just absolutely phenomenal where there are instances is where as extreme as it is, there feels like there's a good amount of subtlety to this, especially as we get deeper into it and what's happening and potentially why there's enough there. But even just the look and anguish and fight and everything that the actors are able to convey just in their facial expressions alone, that, not everything has to be said. We we understand. And it's just very deep rooted rage and emotion and connection that we feel to them through that This film actually contains no sex. They even state very early that nothing sexual was inflicted upon the victims. Yet it was weirdly erotic and had some sexual tension. But that's the French for you. They could have easily gone in that direction but didn't. The brutality had a higher purpose, which makes the villains even seem less psychotic, giving them a depth quality of character beyond just being sadistic or twisted. They weren't seemingly enjoying it, but did it more out of a sense of duty without giving anything away. By the end, all the disturbing effort they put into it almost seemed justified, which I think is is a far cry from the Human Centipede like you were talking earlier, although I never actually watched the whole thing through of human. Is that considered extremity or is that just something trying to act like the say more body. Body horror, a big difference with extremity, I mean you can definitely have things that are over-the-top gory. I feel like the subject matter and just the story and artistry is a big point of extremity in itself that sort of what they're using pushing this, you know, human capabilities to the brink and just this endless amount of suffering and the will for the, you know, human spirit to keep on fighting through. But it's it's all to really kind of illustrate some of the the evils and unrest in the world and just within, you know, the human condition and what people can be capable of and what this, you know, sense of human monsters looks like. But it's not it's never it's never pointless or just to shock, you know, it's always it's always kind of using it to to push the characters through this extreme as well as with the villains showing, usually it's like a parallel, something, you know, in the real world and what what those dangers can look like if brewed and kind of gone on shock Yeah, I got that sense. There's a, there's a bigger story they're trying to tell and this is more of a metaphor of anything. You can't compare this movie with Megan, for example, or Martha Regan, as some people call it, but they are both horror. The range of what horror encompasses is so vast. When I talk about horror to people who are not really into it, they describe their impression of it, which is actually not unlike what martyrs is as extreme violence, torture and death, blood and guts, disturbing material that's very graphic. But this is artistically done and in a way which has meaning and depth. And yet those people who hate on horror or are averse to it will still watch something like New Country for Old Man, which I've never seen and never will. But I understand it is extremely violent. But that's somehow okay because it's a drama. If you watch any period pieces like The Tudors, which was only depicting what actually happened in history regularly excessive torture scenes like heads on spikes in the dozens like it's not anything that's being created within the horror genre. It's depicting things that have existed in our world for a very long time. But yeah, I agree there's can be a I think most people don't view horror and assume that there's any sort of meaning or positivity. They might think, okay, like you enjoy, you enjoy it for like a fun factor. yeah, I think a lot of people just they don't maybe they're, they're more connecting horror to things like slashers or torture, which yes, this has a lot of torture film elements, but it's with artistry and and a purpose a number of themes that it's digging into from, you know, the the power hungry and extremists dangers that we kind of hit on a little bit. But also just I think the extent of what any kind of trauma can do to a person, especially as you see how even the beginning setup of this film hunting down the families saying that never happened. the scars and the very literal inner demons that this traumatic experience created. And Lucy very much concerned stays with her and is just this kind of continual life sucking horror that stays with her. and that's something I think very relatable. Many people in this world have had some sort of trauma from one thing or another. So think it's just a way to bring understanding to that really. This is a very thought provoking film. It sticks with you for days. Actually, I. I thought about it quite extensively for like a week. as a filmmaker, I would tend to analyze things, what worked and what didn't and so forth. Anyway. But beyond that, the story and the daring ness of it impressed me quite a bit. Despite its grotesqueness, this gave it it gave it a freshness and it was just a wild ride. It was it was bold. It was intriguing. Would I ever make a movie like this? No, I would say never, just not my style. But I see the the true genius behind it and the care and interest in artistically presenting something beyond just the gratification of showing people suffer. Just to tie into the intense. I actually have one other quote from the director. Mars is almost a work of perspective fiction that shows a dying world almost like a pre apocalypse. It's a world While evil triumphed a long time ago where conscientious have died out under the reign of money and where people spend their time hurting one another. It's a metaphor, of course, but the film things that are not that far from what we're experiencing today. Would you say French Extremity films are still around it? I'm not there's not not so much it seem really predominant There's some from the late nineties but especially early 2000 through almost like 2015. The last five years there's been less, but there's also I've seen, I think, similar things, not quite like even another big French extremity film inside the film makers of that made another film called Live that was really powerful. It was definitely gory and artistic, but it wasn't, I would say it didn't have as much of that excessive trauma and a lot of French extremity is it's in the subtext, but a response to things that are going on politically. Like one of my favorites, Frontiers, which I guess it's good that we didn't I didn't choose that one because it is more political. know you said you don't always like that commentary, but it was there was and I think it was 22 in France. There was an election going on and there was a very right wing on the edge of extremists candidate that was doing very well. And the director of Frontiers actually had a nightmare about it that inspired this entire film. So a lot of it a lot of it dug into, I think, Ghosts of the Past. And there was a lot of immigration rights and issues and fear of the other and yeah, things along those lines. But then also ties in to just kind of really a character who's just put through more than you can imagine anyone going through and surviving. So I think that's a big, a big part of it. Like you have final girls and or, you know, final boys and other horror films, but it's not to the extent where they're being pushed this severely of what you can almost not imagine how anyone can endure what they're enduring, but they find a way to kind of fight through it and with, you know, obviously, this depends on on the film, like kind of what the take away and where where the character ends up. But I think it's a little bit of that really just pushing a person to the extreme, which also is sort of a conversation about the people doing that to her and what and how those things kind of exist in the world and kind of be wary of letting that go unchecked. Because I think, as you know, with the quote that we just had here, it's sort of a forewarning of if type of evil is allowed to just breed and run wild. And no one kind of challenges it, then that's when you just get a total dystopian society of cruelty. I'm okay with politics in the film if it's that's what the story's about. But if it's just cramming in, that doesn't really fit just for the sake of your own activism. But I remember the Dead Zone with Christopher Walken had a lot of politics in it. It was more of a, caricature of what politicians were like in that. But I really love that film. I just watched it again. God, maybe we should do that one next. Anyway, I've seen it so sure. It's it's based on Stephen King material, as you know. I'm sure you didn't read the book or anything. Not that one. I don't even know if it was a book. It might have been one of those short, short stories. They just cannibalize anything that he's scribbled and can make a green lit. Stephen King Okay, Mars is sure to get under the skin of even the most avid Gore around. The Gore here is meant to be extremely discomforting, tedious and a test of endurance to have bigger conversations. But it is certainly not fun. There are a number of moments that were difficult to watch, even in revisiting this film. And I'm not really one who gets squeamish very easily from cinematic gore. Some of these most spine tingling moments are just as filled with outrage and sympathy and aren't all during torture moments. Some are just moments of human kindness and seeing the reaction of someone who's so brutalized. The guard self is exquisite in a force of its own, but more importantly, it's what it represents. The level some will go to without blinking an eye. And the pain many are subjected to endure far beyond comprehension. More than anything, the Gore represents both human suffering and the importance of truth, visibility and human compassion. The victims or would be martyrs of the story here are put through such relentless torture more than most could imagine. Even the lucky ones, like our protagonist, Nurse Lucy, Find a way out, are never truly free of the horrors of the past. And what she had to endure through this film takes a look at how torment especially happening to one who is young, is an always hovering force, continuing to take away pieces of who you could have been in this. It depicts one of the most vicious acts that can be released on a human, even if not to this extreme or with this intent. Cruelty to children, even from this one person meant to be there and kept them safe are extremely common, thus bringing a lens to the capabilities of humankind. Trauma can create monsters within us that might fight for us in moments, but can quickly turn their wrath and viciousness at us. This jury and horrific depiction of these victims regularly having to contend with psychological horrors on top of all that's physically done to them was a constant and true to the physical atrocities they were subjected to. It was a poignant extra layer of realities of trauma and how some scars can take on their own life. It brings me back to visions of experimental asylums in the past and how entrapping and hopeless that fate could become of anyone who was unlucky enough to step into those doors. Even if you weren't crazy such horror leaves a mark and creates demons that grip on you for dear life, which is just one of the many examples of history where those in power, whether with noble intentions or selfish ones, did unspeakable things and preyed on those who had no way out of their torment. It's not easy to watch, but are taking on this hard truth can be important an incredibly formidable. but this film stands out for its ferocious example of how horror can expose, process and transcend some of the darkest, most brutal possibilities in our world. And the damage it can inflict is an extremely powerful horror film hanging on emotional, psychological and body horror and digs deeper to have important conversations about the dangers of a world built on cruelty, power and profit and manages do so in a beautifully bloody and discomforting cascade of the exploration of evil when truly given its reins. did you pick this film because it was your favorite or the most popular or best exemplifies this? I think it exemplifies the genre very strongly. It's I probably have a very solid clothes like Top five French Extremity. My absolute favorite is Frontiers, which I briefly mentioned. I have had many reviews and discussions on that already, so I figured, okay, maybe bring this is probably probably when people reflect on French extremity three that get mentioned the most and tend to be the most iconic and appreciated are martyrs inside and frontiers. Frontier is probably maybe being a little lesser. Just one of my personal favorites. So yeah, I'd probably say martyrs and inside are some of the top two that really are associated and celebrated in this subgenre. And so yeah, I was a little bit between the two inside is incredible as well and taps into well it's very bloody and just thrilling and captivating and very fast paced and just kind of grips you in and the horror and the fear and there's a lot of really strong themes. It is very like cat and mouse chase survival. And then also with I probably, you know well discuss the remake shortly. probably wouldn't have watched it the remake if it wasn't for a discussion piece, but granted, it has been a few years. But I figure that would also be a bit of an interesting discussion of you have a film like this that is so strong, or if you're someone who was just too couldn't handle, you know, I couldn't handle, but the the gore, you know, turned you away or it was just too much. And you you know, you didn't get anything out of it. I think for both avenues of the people who really loved it and the people that this film just didn't work for, probably everyone would say this is not a film that really needed to be remade. And that can kind of be an interesting discussion to have. It is a difficult job of a remake to honor and kind of bring alive what was great or influential or powerful in the original while still having a little bit of your own, twists or expiration or something, something new that you're adding. But it can definitely be hard to balance that. And with I'm noticing recently there's been a few examples of horror adaptations that tackles something very dark and disturbing and uncomfortable, which is a great thing that horror does. It goes those places that many are afraid to go and then it doesn't quite go to episode. Did you see the remake already? Oh, wow. Okay. I heard very bad things, but I'm like, You know what? This might make for some good conversation, so let's do it. I'm sure it will. And our next episode will dissect the 2015 American remake of Martyrs. Subscribe so you don't miss out on all the fun. and stick around for our bloopers at the end. If you would like to join our Society of Grotesquerie and Loathing, please subscribe and give this podcast a like. Comment your wretched thoughts below along with what you would like us to expose in future episodes. Keep our podcast suffering on by finding it in cold, black withered hearts to support us on Patreon. a link to our PayPal is also below for one time donations of any amount. It was nice knowing you. All right. I am rolling. Hello, Horror files. You're listening to dissecting, horror, examining the anatomy. You know what? It sounds like I'm saying dissecting horror. Like a prostitute. That's. I mean, that's a word that always gets misconstrued I've caught you doing it a few times in the past. I'm like, It should be. We should emphasize the horror genre. And also we say every time we say, what is it? Fright. Some delight. It sounds like we're saying frights and delights, but it's really fright. Some delights not that anybody gives a fuck, but. All right, that's the eighth. We'll try it again. Hello, Horrorphiles. You're listening to dissecting horror. It sounded ridiculous. Do try it again. In this episode, we'll examine the twist. We are the horror whisperers, horror whisperers. That's another one I shot in this and I can't even say enunciate. We are the horror whisperers that was too much. We are the horror whisperers, you're champions of horror and keepers of the fearscape, on this, on this podcast. It's going to be a long podcast, one hour just of getting it right. So what happens? You don't get any sleep. Okay, There are certainly powerful American horror. I mean, we're going to do. That's For me, this these films really for me, these films really show the power change. Just read that whole No, Unless you felt like it was lacking somehow. That makes me feel so much better that you're as bad about it today as I am. having a raw, ferocious quality to. how talking is hard. Yeah, words are hard. All right. Now we're rusty is only year. And The film is a personal. The film is a personal. Oh, my God. Is going to be a long discussion. Kubrick, Korean, Kubrick Kubrickian if I can not coin that word. you, if you would like to join our Society of Grotesquerie and Loathing, please subscribe and give this podcast to like comment your wretched thoughts below along with what we would like, along with what we would, along with what we along with what Hold my hand up. Okay. Okay. Comment your wretched thoughts below along with what we read, along with what we along with what you would like us to expose in future episodes. Keep our part. guy. Why do you think this Keep our podcast suffering on by finding it in your cold, black withered hearts to support us on Patreon. That sounded like you're really careful about sending these records. And then it's like the one thing we've said more than anything else over and over each time, Okay, I'll do it again. Let's start from the top. It was nice knowing you one more time. Okay. It was nice. Yeah, I know. From the top. No, no, I think we actually we breezed that one. I don't know why, but. Okay, we go. It was nice knowing you guys.