Dissecting Horror
Dissecting Horror
Stopmotion - Spoiler-free Review | Under the Radar Indie Body Horror Gem or Missed Opportunity?
Hello, horrorphiles. In this episode, we dissect the film, Stopmotion, now streaming on Shudder. This dissection will be spoiler-free.
“A talented stop-motion animator becomes consumed by the grotesque world of her horrifying creations—with deadly results,” according to Rotten Tomatoes.
This is Dissecting Horror: Examining the anatomy of fear in film, television and literature with Kelsey Zukowski and Steven Aguilera.
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Photo credit: Slevin Mors
Hello, horrorphiles.
You're listening to Dissecting Horror:Examining the anatomy of fear in film, television and literature. I'm filmmaker Steven Aguilera. I'm writer and performer Kelsey Zukowski. In this episode, we dissect the film, Stopmotion, now streaming on Shudder. This dissection will be spoiler-free. We are the horror whisperers, your champions of horror. In our Society of Grotesquerie and Loathing, if you will. I will, and we hope you will subscribe for more, won’t you? A talented stop motion animator becomes consumed by the grotesque world of her horrifying creations with deadly results. According to Rotten Tomatoes. I have a deep love for stop motion animation, even more so when it digs into a macom set of characters with an explorative spirit. It's a niche subgenre that has a way of satisfying the spooky, whimsical nature in me, both exhilarating and soothing. So a dark psychosis artist obsession horror film utilizing the creepy yet fantastical nature of stop motion animation and exploring the level of meticulous dedication, time, passion and imagination that stop motion takes. Yes, please. I had high expectations, and this film still managed to surprise me with how utterly it tantalized and spoke to me with every vividly haunting and visceral frame. Last episode, Steve talked about how interview with the vampire was all the things that intrigued and enthralled him in a horror film. And I have to say, I think stop motion is a perfect example of that film for me, and has an offbeat, experimental style and eerie tone powered by many gripping themes that are incredibly relatable to the artist's journey, such as the duality of creator and creation, the fear of never having an original or true voice, and the daunting reality that you can give all of yourself flesh and blood to your craft, and it still may never be enough. while artistically exploring a surrealist stop motion art within the art concept through my two favorite types of horror psychological and body horror. Our main character, L.A., played by I sling friend Seok, yearns for a self-identity, a voice, and life of her own after living as a mere extension, a puppet, if you will, to her mother, a legendary stop motion animator stricken with arthritis, necessitating the use of her daughter's hands to perform the storyteller's work. Ella's mother. Stella, played by Suzanne Blake, a refreshingly pronounceable name for a change, is insufferably strict and overbearing, crushing her adult daughter's creativity and growth. I find that situation to be a clever setup to a horror story about stop motion. However, it did take me two viewings of the film and thoughtfully working all that out in writing to actually process and appreciate what was there. Perhaps I'm just not that observant or deep, But I also don't feel I need my handheld with every detail spelled out. But I couldn't decide if this film as a whole was either so deep that it was incomplete, conceivable to me, or there was only an apparent deepness with little actually happening to make sense of. It was either trying to feel deeper than it really was, or was deeper than I was picking up on. regardless, a good balance had not been struck between clear storytelling and the all too abstract arthouse Dario Argento vibe to the point of divorcing me for much I could relate to. Not everything has to be so mainstream and on the nose, but I also need to be able to follow and relate to the story and characters without the film aspiring, so hard to be high art. Interesting. So not even as like a fellow artist or in horror artist specifically. You didn't feel like you could relate to any of, like, the themes that were being explored here? No. It reminds me of, my teens, where I had many friends who were into stop motion and into makeup effects, and we were just so into that sort of art form as it relates to film. And I felt a surge of, warmth tingling over me at the sight of the stop motion itself. But the characters and the situations that are in, in this film did very little. Okay. I figured we were either going to really, really agree or really differ on this film, which is fair. It's, you know, very experimental and artistic, and I think it's something that's really going to be evocative and connect to someone or not at all. Ashling Frank cozy, which I did look up and that's the pronunciation. Oh, how you say it. So, Yeah, she delivers a powerful, captivating, evocative performance as Ella. She reflects much of the complexities of her inner being, from the conflicted emotions of dealing with an overbearing, narcissistic mother while still wanting to do right by her, to her passion and desire to digesting how so many around her underestimate and devalue her creative spark to little flickers of madness and the thought of what it might be like to truly let go, to embrace your impulses and to say to hell with it. And the impossible task of trying to adhere to other standards. While some of this is supported in dialog and the story we are given, much of this is conveyed in a look without a word needed from Josie. The more fitting for a character who struggles in finding her voice and even having the chance to lend it out. I didn't place her at first, which is often a good sign of an actor falling into their roles, but she also gave an incredibly powerful and harrowing performance in the historical drama turned revenge piece The Nightingale, and a strong supporting performance and The Last Voyage of the Demeter. More recently, she has proven her ability to tackle complex, dark material in a very raw, emotive, human way that can speak to an audience. hopefully we see her in more horror going forward. Caitlin Sprinkle as the little girl is just as captivating, capturing both the imaginative, daring, spirited spark of childhood not yet worn down by adulthood, and second guessing and honoring the delightfully morbid inclinations that many would be afraid to suggest. Her energy, mannerisms and delivery feel very authentic to a child of her age while still holding an ethereal, commanding, and knowing nature that helps power the story in a satisfying direction. She also had a strong performance on the newest season of Doctor Who, and the episode boom. Between the two, it seems like a promising start to her career. The cinematography and overall visual style partners vibrancy and nightmare so well throughout the film. It feels very indie and experimental, which I mean in the best possible way. Every part of the film simply oozes artistic expression and contemplation on the passion of that calling, and even where the dangers lie in losing a part of yourself to it, you can never get back. The art within the art of stop motion film captures both the childlike wonder, simplicity, and fear and evil in an unsettling and spirited way. The sight of the stop motion film as simple and familiar, yet offers an eerie and trapping atmosphere for the girl who was created to face the Ashman, a man of nightmares and dread. As the mad ambition sets in L.A., throwing all of herself into the story slowly becomes her waxed art, escalating us to that also satisfying body horror. While body horror is more often portrayed through rotted, flaking and bleeding out the body slowly and gruesomely falling apart until there is nothing left or one is perhaps reborn anew. I appreciated this more unique take on body horror, utilizing a horror and not expose flesh or rotting, but becoming something inanimate and seemingly made of artifice and imagination come to life. Things do take a bloody turn, showing the desperation in L.A. and a great representation of putting your blood, sweat and tears into your passion project. Which should be enough for those who want that bloody body horror, while being subdued enough that most normally averse should be able to handle it, It's actually the connective exploration and symbolism of the wax, allowing her to become something new, or perhaps simply reveal what was always under the surface, waiting to be brought into creation. That is more horrifying. It's this angle of body horror losing oneself and bodily autonomy and its psychological ramifications that offers the most creepy and harrowing moments and visualization and an impact as she fights to her last breath to not let her work go unfinished, no matter the forces against her. Aside from that occasional juicy body horror, the best part of the film for me by far, was the actual stop motion sequences themselves, which comprise only a few brief moments scattered over the film. I've always been very fond of that esthetic. The story and the stop motion animation itself she is creating does not seem to hold much significance or parallel to what's happening in her life, or with her fate. At least that I could figure out. How is this symbolic of anything or furthering the story's theme? Felt like a missed opportunity, or did it make sense to you? I mean, I think. I think it kind of one of the main themes of this film, I think, is fear and many different, many different ways. So I think it almost kind of reminded me a little bit of The Babadook, which was a film I like, like 90% of. I loved 90% of when I watched it, but like, the ending really didn't sit well with me. And then once I kind of understood more the intent and the mixture of needing to view certain elements as like a real monster or terror that was really happening, and then also being able to realize what it symbolized to the, the protagonist in that essentially depression, that there was an element that was real, but really, like at its core, it was more this like manifestation. It's, you know, again, they're both very like psychological. So I think it's more of like that exploration of, of one's fear. And in this film, her fear takes many different forms. But fear of control, I think, is like a big a big source of it. And that that is kind of shows in many different ways. So I think with the film within the film is more kind of taking that in a more traditional horror, you know, just survival or just this looming, mysterious, scary figure coming after you in this entrapping setting. And kind of giving in to that in a way. And for her, you know, in her real life, there's a lot of different fears. But what, like one thing that it goes into is, definitely fear of control, of not having a voice of like, not creating something that matters of, I think even validation, especially with the relationship with her mother. Some of it, you know, they didn't have to spell out too much, but some of it you can assume if she kind of followed her path like lead narcissistic. And the mother probably never really gave her much encouragement or validation, and seemed like that kind of dynamic of someone who can never really quite live up to their parents. You know, high expectations. but there must have been something that kind of sparked this, you know, this love of this art, you know, that was given by her mother, even while constantly demeaning her and telling her, you're not doing this right, and all of that. So I think there is, it was kind of a more traditional horror sort of mirror image of more human, everyday fears that she was facing. And a long answer may Well, that's that's an interesting interpretation, but I'm feeling like you're maybe having to stretch a little bit to make it fit and make it work. I don't know that that it doesn't feel like it would be that obvious if that if that is in fact what they were going for. I don't know that, they did a very good job of putting it out there, but something about good art is that it's open to interpretation and allowing each of us to, look at things in a certain way that, we can reflect on and as meaning for us. So I'm down with that. One empathizes with Ella to the extent that no one would want to live a life like that. But aside from the undeserved misfortune of her plight, I felt little or no empathy or rooting interest for her, although I did not dislike her either. I was just not able to connect. I was not convinced the torment she experienced under her mother justified the psychosis she was manifesting. Sufficient trauma had not been set up to make her behavior make sense. I can see how living for so long under that level of suppression could make someone crack. However, her mother's stroke and coma early in the film should have been liberating for her, if anything. Yet she remains tormented in a further deteriorating state. I get that people can be crazy for inexplicable reasons, even when brought up by loving parents. But aside from her oppressive mother, there was no real motivation for her emotional and mental decline. I don't know, I think I viewed it less of what she just so traumatic to make this reasonable. I think I viewed like, obviously this is really happening to her, but I think a lot of it was just this exploration of artists obsession and that if you are an artistic or creative individual, it's like this, this just need and you where even if you think, okay, I don't have a voice or can I make my own way, I think that almost doesn't even register with her because it's just this, this need. She doesn't not even just not knowing anything else. It's just that genuine and drive and passion in her that she's just determined to make something happen. So I think, I don't know, like I didn't necessarily I mean, it's really happening, but I didn't take every moment literal of like, what a person really do this just because their parent was narcissistic and dying. Because that's true of a lot of people and they don't go off the edge like that. But I think it was more just about exploring, I think very relevant themes. And I think you could even use some of that, especially the the body horror as it takes on this sort of the, the creator and creation kind of becoming one. I think that's more just, a lot of people in their art, they put so much of themselves into it. And I think like it even like ties into it, like very relevant whether you're a horror, or doesn't even have to be horror, but a lot of there is a lot of dark, taxing material out there. So whether it's from a writer, director, you know, standpoint and I think sometimes even more as an actor, because you have to really go there and bring something authentic of yourself and kind of be in that mindset. And a lot of times you're portraying whether it's, you know, based on a real person or not, you're or you're kind of bringing alive whether it could be a sociopathic killer, or it could be someone who's just, experiencing torment or abuse or anything. But there is a certain need to bring that to life in a realistic way, where you have to get in that mindset. And this balance that's really can be really tricky of wanting to portray it and live it, at least for that time. You know, that short period of time when you're on set or doing a project, but then separating yourself enough where it doesn't continue to take over your your mental state. And that's I think we've seen actors really struggle with that. And, you know, sometimes there's other things going on in their life depression or drugs or any number of things. But, there's definitely been actors who say this, like, these characters are like Evan Peters comes to mind of like he had to step back from working with Ryan Murphy for a bit just because he tends, you know, he's does incredible with the material, but he's really good at playing very deranged, like very dark, mentally taxing characters. And that's kind of become his thing. not necessarily. I don't even think. I mean, I think he likes and sees values in it, but I remember for a time it's like, I, I just have to step away for a bit because it's, it's like having me have almost like mental breakdowns. And I just want to be happy for a little bit. so I viewed it more as not how realistic is this for a person where they're going to descent into body horror? No. Probably most struggling artists or even artistic obsession. They're not going to that level. But I think there's something creative and relevant and thrilling to utilize horror, to just explore and examine things that whether you as a human or you as an artist, might struggle with. Yeah. And I think what we were saying before about actors is the most pertinent and the closest to, a type of artist susceptible to succumbing to, mental issues because they're putting themselves so deeply into that role. They're literally being that deranged person or whatever, person that might be in a sad state that they're, portraying. But in this case, a stop motion animator. I don't see that level and of involvement it there's no reason it couldn't be. But it feels more detached to me because it's so slow. It's like one frame at a time that they, they don't have. It's not like getting lost in it in that sense. It's more like, it's paced in a way that you're always able to judge, on a technical basis. Each frame that you're doing, you're focused on that technical aspect to where you're probably not going to get lost in the character in its motions beyond, doing that. Yeah. I understand what you're saying about sort of being a more technical art form and maybe being a little more removed. In a way, I definitely think actors would be more susceptible. because even even as a writer, if I'm, I've written some very disturbing, traumatic things and, there is, you are kind of in that dark place, but I don't know, I feel like it's a little easier to pull yourself in and out of it, where especially, like, if you're an actor and you're on set and it's go time, like you, you know, obviously different actors will handle it differently and can more be in this traumatic, intense place. And then the camera cuts and they're there themselves and they're joking around. Some people have to say a lot more in character, which potentially are these traumatic, isolating places more. I'm probably more on the latter half of that of where, I really want to stay. Like if I'm a character who's being traumatized or her is going through something where she's questioning her own reality and being attacked and, you know, all of these different ways and is very alone and, oh, depressive thoughts would come on, you know, along with that, I'm usually like, where I just have to I can't let myself be happier or joke around. Like, I almost have to pull myself more away and stay in that dark place. I guess maybe doing more indie films and not being able to like, section off as much time as someone like, you know, for example, Heath ledger stayed in this, hotel and kind of or, you know, hotel motel, I don't know, but, basically shot himself away from the rest of the world and society and tried to get into that dark, chaotic nature of the Joker and had one of the most brilliant performances. And again, there was other things definitely going on. It's not I mean, it's not like he had no issues in life whatsoever. And then he did. He got in character and did one film, but I think there is an element there of him so successfully getting into that dark, maddening place that I think it did affect him mentally and at least being somewhat of a factor. And, you know, what ultimately happened to him? yeah, I think definitely actors. I think it's most difficult with. Oh, I think before I was gonna make almost a joke of, I love and I'm so fascinated by stop motion film, but it is so tedious. Like, I'm glad I can appreciate stop motion as a viewer and not have to create it, because I think in so many even even film, you know, is a slow process. From writing a script to, you know, everything that that takes place even once you're on set and filming into slowly making it come to life. But it's like it's like a snail's pace by so far in comparison for stop motion. And, I feel like it. Yeah, it could be a maddening process where I could kind of see the madness fitting in sooner. But I also feel like not that it's more imaginative than other creators, but if someone's arm moving and just, you know, could could create something so big, like in your mind, you have to see so much bigger than what you're having happen inch by inch, frame by frame. So I think there's also an element of you have to have a very vivid kind of, I don't know, explosive imagination and mindset, which could be wonderful. Or I could see it kind of taking away from you and I think a big part of the concept and point of this film is basically kind of exploring things like even Frankenstein, you know, of just creating something and losing control of it. And you're kind of monsters coming back to come alive and reverse the roles in a way. Well, I'd imagine for us tedious as it is, to have to move something a couple millimeters at a time to have to draw in cartoons, the entire frame, just to have it move that equivalent would be, even more daunting. But, patience is a big factor. And I do think what you're saying about having that overall vision of where things are going, especially if you're you're animating several characters at once or like a Ray Harryhausen thing where a thing maybe have ten arms and you got to keep track of where each arm is moving and you can't, you know, mess that up. That's impressive. yeah, there's there's there's much to be appreciated there for sure. There are ample creepy moments, and fear is a definite driving force here. But its objective is not for a quick shock, scare or creep out moment. Its ambitions and intent run a little deeper. There is a genuine. The monsters we create have a power against us angle, where stories and artifice collide with reality and personal truth, which does show a real threat to our protagonist. But the inner battle is just as fierce among this traditional fear. It tackles things like the fear of and validation, not being able to create something that matters and control being unreachable, turning to ash, and falling into the wind. Much like her created monster, the Ash Man. I found the pacing and stop motion to be perfect. A grip me from the beginning with a striking, enchanting, dreamlike style. Added constant foreshadow, wing tension, and eerie escalations while taking enough time on our protagonist story and struggle, making us invested in her plight for artistic satisfaction. Even while she felt farther away from the world around her. Which really speaks to that fragile balance, especially for those who put themselves in a mindset of dark fictional settings. We all have our own preferences on ambiguity versus the more clear cut I can see for some this might come across as too literal or on the nose with its metaphors, as characters do literally spell out some things to come, or things the character is most threatened by. Like you will never have control and then seen how trapped she is, or even her mom calling her poppet constantly as she is controlling her to control the puppets and then diminishing her ambitions to contribute ideas and have a creative identity of her own. The poppet, of course, is a fixture of their art, but also poppets were considered a small figure of a human being used in sorcery, again used by another without having the power herself. for me. I appreciate it all taking very human fears and anxieties, especially regarding artistic ambition and need, but could also apply to many other areas in life. I loved how it utilized the horror genre to show what that would look like. If used as a literal cage of sorts. I don't mind some having to go back and think what something might have meant. And films, especially the more artistic, sometimes it offers more power to a story, allowing each viewer to take away what it means to them. I also don't love when I watch something and everything is so vague, unclear and up for interpretation that it doesn't manage to affect or stimulate me, or even let me walk away feeling like I really knew this person's story or what it meant to its creator. I want to have a sense of the creative intent. If it's an exploratory and thematic piece like this, I want to go on that exploratory journey with the director and everyone else who brings a film to life. Stop motion offered a good balance of exploring many connective themes through haunting, symbolic visualization, taking us on a thrilling journey of creative fulfillment and personal destruction in equal measure, while still letting there be some room for wandering and interpretation. Which I guess was not the case for you, but my opinion. Fair enough. I didn't get the sense that any specific supernatural element was actually present, though perhaps there should have been to suggest some alternate explanation for what was happening. No, I viewed it as like, yeah, like, Descent of psychosis, really, just of this mad ambition. And again, like a look at what, how much you have to throw on to make maybe not have to. Maybe it's like, yes, maybe a little more of a forewarning of having that desire and want and need to throw all of yourself into something, you know, blood, sweat and tears. But there, there kind of being a line that if you give yourself too much, especially to something with dark material, then it can destroy you. Although I don't take this as an overt point of the film, this does tap into a topic which has always bugged me when we're artists are conflated with psychosis, as in, the true creative spark stems from either heavy drug use or that all true artists are crazy, or at least weird. Some sort of link between artists and madness, that sort of thing. Which is nonsense in my observation, artists are really no more crazy than the rest of the general population. They may or may not be more dramatic, expressive or artistic about how they go about their eccentricities is all. Look at any film set and you'll find it filled with talented professionals, mostly artists, conducting themselves as sanely as anyone else. I don't mind the exploration because I think it's interesting. And even if you again, like, I feel like I'm not taking this 100% literal so I can understand the just that exploration of kind of giving yourself so much that what's left when you're, when you take of like, who who are you and who is your identity outside of this? And there's not really any balance in her life and things like that. But it's absolutely like it wouldn't be fair to say, oh yeah, all artists are crazy. And I think it's just because some of the best art comes from very dark, real things that happen to people. And I think it's a beautiful thing of art to be able to take that pain or that struggle and using art as like a catharsis for it to understand what happened to you and how it changed you and kind of create something positive out of that. And usually it helps other people. So it's like taking something damaging and just bringing all this good out of it in an authentic, true way. So I feel like that's more where I think it comes from. But definitely there's a lot of people who portray very deranged art characters or music that's very dark. And so many people say, oh yeah, this is like the nicest guy. And, you know, so it's definitely not, I guess, so, to not believe in the stereotype. But you can acknowledge that. I mean, yeah, that's true of anyone. Like, you don't have to be an artist, but there's a lot of people who go through very traumatic, hard things in their life and hopefully if it's not art, they find another way to kind of digest that and kind of rebirth something in their in themselves that allows them to maybe acknowledge what happened to them and maybe it stays with them, but they're still able to kind of create something positive going forward. There's something mysterious about artists in people's eyes because they they are set apart from normal folk in a lot of ways, because they have this ability to create on a level that is almost magical. If they're good artists anyway, that transcends reality and the kind of create their own reality. And it's a fascinating exploration and when an artist is off balance, for whatever reason, it's probably going to express that or she in a way that is more interesting. And it kind of taps into that fascination about artists. And so it makes for an interesting story, or it stands out in a way that perhaps does so more than if a bricklayer, flipped out or something. So I get that. But and I don't think this film is trying to make any statements about that necessarily, but it does, even if inadvertently lean into that a bit. I really appreciated the score and sound design. There was a lot of use of sound effects, such as the sounds of tearing flesh or creaky puppet movements interwoven into the eerie, tension building score hitting on the drive and reality of our protagonists, and creating a sinister sense of anticipation. I do agree about the, the sound effects. And I was thinking, at a few points where visually it wasn't too much happening as far as flesh being peeled, it was almost like, a sliver of something was coming out. I won't give anything away, but the sound was just so squishy and magical. it just it heightened it to such an extreme. it's a testament to how powerful the soundtrack is when it comes to body horror alone. I will say that I don't get, like, cringing moments a lot while watching horror, but that was one for me. I think partially the sound and just my own experiences. I've. I've dislocated my kneecap three times and had surgery, which was probably like getting over that surgery is probably like the most difficult time I had in my life. And I can again, my leg's better, but like, I still kind of feel it. I feel that, kind of connected thing. So body horror connected with even minor surgery. And again, the placement, tends to get me a lot more. So it's also could be a little personal thing, but yeah, it got me. It's not it wasn't a lot, but I feel like again, it didn't it wasn't like, this isn't like, over the top, super gross body horror film, but it had enough of those moments, I think, to appease people who normally like that. The score, however, if you want to call it that, is closer to sound design here, an assortment of grating, screeching string instruments among other experimental fare found in countless horror films. To the point of cliche, I do love these sorts of disjointed orchestral horror tones when used sparingly or to punctuate a moment, but when it's used as actual score for prolonged periods, it becomes a bit random and uncreative, even if it does fit the mood well and feels too generic, even lazy. I have a series of, sound libraries that other. They just let a bunch of, violinists and other sorts of, performers do random screechy sounds, and they're very handy when you need a moment. That just sounds creepy and weird, but it's not like I feel like I'm a composer when I'm using one of these sounds. And so for me personally, I think watching this film, even though I'm sure they had actual hired, performers, do all this, I felt a little bit like, that sounds like something that they could have gotten from a library. It didn't sound like somebody put a lot of thought into arranging, music to specifically fit moments. It was more, you could have placed this or that there or there, and it just had a tone or feel to it. So I liked the sound of it, but I don't think it was next level. It just felt a little bit lazy. I can see how you felt. It was overdone. especially with like the puppet sounds. And as the film goes on, that's more and more which again, it works for me. I thought it was creepy and I think it worked with her becoming more and more of her creation. But there is a lot of it, to be fair. So I can I can see where it would be too much and you're like, okay, we get the point. Working some different sounds. For me, this commits the most atrocious sin of any film, horror or otherwise. It bored me. I must have checked how much time was left at least 20 times throughout. I expected the pacing to pick up after the first act, but it never did. and when a film fails to engage you, it's going to drag. This is one of those that feels like a 15 minute short, stretched out to feature length. Indeed, if I were the one editing this at a pace I prefer, 15 minutes is what we'd be left with. 20 tops. I get that everyone has their own tolerance for what is considered too fast or too slow. Some prefer things take their time. I am not that person. Wow. Again another one. Amazing how we watch the same film and have such different experiences. Of course, like I said, I was exhilarated from the first shot and I thought that I was like, wow, the pacing is perfect. It's constantly moving forward and giving us more and more, wow, okay, okay, yeah. what? so you said you would cut that much of the movie out. So I'm curious what what was like the bulk of where you're like, this is doing nothing for the story. Well, I was looking at each scene and I was thinking, okay, what is the essence here that we need to convey? And it felt like most of the scenes were just conveying a mood. And I can see how you can't rush certain moods. You have to let it, play out. And some moods are just not fast. If that makes any sense. You have to linger on certain, sad moments or on moments that require, pacing that builds tension. I get that, but I can't remember the specific scenes. But I remember thinking, specifically, like, this entire section could have been omitted. Or for me, because the only points that I really loved were the stop motion. I wanted to just skip ahead to those points. And there we that film, you know, like, can I just watch your finished stop motion film Everything in between? outside of it? I certainly wasn't invested in her as a character. And so I just I wanted her to just get over it, you know? And I wasn't really feeling a sense of. I wanted to watch her heal or support her. I just didn't care at all. And so that was the main thing. If I if I gave a shit about her, I would have probably wanted to be along that journey with her, but I just wasn't. okay. Yeah, I definitely felt connected to her, but I feel like it was more about these bigger, universal themes of artists and storytelling and and even on a more human level, just validity and having your purpose and vehicle, whatever that may be, I think is what I connected to. I was a little I wanted her to like, have satisfaction and to have if it's that artistic expression and finishing her film, if that was it, then like I wanted her to have that. But I again, I also love body horror, so I also wanted it to go there. I usually, I definitely find, I don't know, I find body horror very cathartic for many reasons. I think there's the just the human body can be such a range of things, but at any moment something, you know, there is a certain fragility and at any moment something could take over you that you don't know what's happening with you. And I think just the horror of that, especially coupled with psychological, I think, is one of the most just daunting, terrifying things like not having control of your body and then your mind potentially going with it, or having your mind and having to just deal with the reality that you have no control, even over your own body. And anything can be happening to it that can be bigger than you. also, someone who has a good amount of health issues and been trying to figure out what those are for about ten plus years. So there's also a part of me that finds it, like actually oddly soothing to, I don't know, like explore just the body just totally falling apart or becoming something new and not having control of it. And sometimes it's just a grim ending and some. But I don't know, it's almost like still acknowledging that darkness rather than rather than, I don't know, like not acknowledging it. And just the sometimes the terror and mystery and not knowing what's happened happening even within your own blood. But a lot of them also actually, like, are strangely empowering in the end. So, yeah, I do have again, I like wanted her to have her like creative satisfaction, but I also wanted them to explore this descent fully and kind of give in to it. So it works for me. Fair enough. I'm not really sure what the overall message here is supposed to be, or if there is one. There seems to be some apparent deep meaning attempted, but I don't see what I'm supposed to walk away from this with the entire time I had no idea where this was going in a bad way, nor did I really care. As mentioned, I did watch it a second time to give it a fair shot. I thought I might grasp some additional sense of what was going on, but I didn't at all. Nor did I appreciate it any more or any less. It was exactly the same experience. No spoilers, but I was hoping the ending would culminate in some sort of intense, poignant message or meaning paying off everything leading up to it. If it did, it went over my head. It feels closer to a horror version, to the ending of 2001 A Space Odyssey, more like a weird nightmare, and is about as random and pointless mixed in with some other Freudian bullshit. And what was with that slimy black egg like thing? The film opens and closes with What does that symbolize? What the hell are you trying to say? Did you get that? I mean, egg, I would say represents birth. That's what reminded me of 2001 A Space Odyssey. But it felt like it was just, being pretentious. Like, that was an overall symbol of life that, you can throw in there and people can just interpret it any way they want. But it felt like it was misplaced, and I don't quite get how it fits with this story, so I'm upset about that. Okay. yeah. I didn't think that was like a key point for me. I actually really did like the ending and thought it was powerful and clear. But again, to each their own. yeah, I don't know. I think I think it just explored a lot of things and a lot of themes really powerfully, where most seem clear to me. There was some that you could still kind of look deeper into. Wouldn't be like, okay, you could probably take this away from this. But again, I think the main premise and point, I think, is acknowledging the passion and will and drive and like the good elements of that of your your art and your purpose and your creative calling. And I think just also acknowledging how much it takes to create art and put yourself into it and just the connectivity of it and without giving too much away, it was kind of addressing and acknowledging her fears beyond this ash man. But the more kind of personal fears and things that she coped with, like in her life and putting that into, okay, those are there and they might box you, but ultimately you can still have this creative satisfaction. You never knew if you would be able to achieve. well, I'm glad you got that out of this film. Yep. Okay. As a sort of plot hole, it seemed an unlikely coincidence that two characters who are not even really friends or colleagues in their field or anything, would both have a strong connection with the stop motion industry. Our stop motion animator lead character just happens to be dating a guy whose sister works specifically in stop motion advertising. A bit of a stretch, I think it's too niche. Maybe I wondered about that, and I thought, well, you know, there's probably some backstory. You know, they don't have to get into that sort of thing, and I probably wouldn't care if they did. But that stood out as like, it's not like they're both in website design. Yeah, it's a pretty it's a pretty selective, I guess, like genre of film, to be fair, like very few. There's probably more on the like independent level, but at least that's like available to most people. It's like sometimes a couple of years before one comes out. So it seems like a pretty rare field. To be fair, I think there was just a need to have some other stop motion character in there to make some of these subplots come off, and they did a sloppy job of connecting these two people who needed to somehow come together, and they could have done that more creatively in a way that like maybe there were some previous, collaboration or something they did with two people and they could have made those two people. But I don't want to get into the story. But that bugged me. I think that was that was dumb. I mean, yeah, probably was more of a critique on like, commercialization first, like pure artistic intent because she even says things like, I would die if I had to work at a job like yours. Been using this art form she loves and, kind of commercial way, so. And that's fine. I like that idea. And I think that that should have been explored, but it's just how the commercial, set of folk met with that old fine art, type of folk just it didn't feel organic at all. And it was just it was bad. It was. It was bad. And I hate them for it. Okay. Well, Stop motion was released one month before Late Night with the devil, both foreign made independent horror films released by IFC films that tackled their respective subgenres of horror in a unique, refreshing way. In my opinion, at least, maybe not. Stevens. While there has been some buzz on stop motion, definitely increasing a bit with the recent shutter release late Night With the Devil blew up more and had surprise success there, even being enough demand to bring it back to theaters earlier this month for a limited release after its shudder streaming release and reaching a record milestone for the streaming network. I'm here for all the horror successes, especially those with clear intent to bring alive horror that offers something original and digs into substance of the complexities of the human experience and the dark consequences one can face to make their dreams a reality, which both of these films represent well. I was let down with some aspects of Late Night with the devil, but the bulk of the film I really appreciated. I definitely view it as a success, as a win for horror and especially independent, creatively fueled horror heavy on psychological and cultural exploration That doing well commercially, critically and among audiences, horror fans and many more casual horror watchers likely is wonderful. That being said, I absolutely feel out of the two, stop motion is the stronger overall film. I don't say that as an opportunity to put down Late Night with the devil, but it did strike me as curious for all of their commonalities, including both being highly critically praised. Thus far, the buzz and fan approval on stop motion is far lower being the difference. It is the more experimental and understated of the two, and it could be that more people simply gravitate towards possession and Devil films over the more surreal artist journey body horror of stop motion. It feels like it's not as much a lack of appeal, but might be if you ask Steve as much as much as it is just under the radar. even for horror fans. Obviously I quite love this film, so I would love to encourage all horror fans to give this one a shot, especially if you are a horror storyteller or one who simply wants to take a closer look at what a creator goes through, even metaphorically, to achieve the art that stirs your soul. In conclusion, I have to say this was not a bad work at all. It just did very little for me. There was no connection. I didn't hate this film, but I do hate being bored. I liked it on par with the Rotten Tomatoes audience score of 49%. Put it that way, you, Kelsey, seem more in line with the critics score of 91%. Yes, absolutely. Actually, it's my favorite horror film I've seen this year. Well, I, I feel, as you do about Late Night With the Devil. Like, I really liked it, but there were certain points that were, you know, whatever. And I think we're in agreement on that. We almost did a, an episode on that. Yeah, perhaps we should have, but, this film today, yeah, it wasn't up there anywhere close to to late night for me. And I don't know if like, I don't personally enjoy exorcism or devil films that much. Me neither. But I think that's why that was honestly. Well, I think it was for a lot of people. I think it was just that, the critics score on Rotten Tomatoes was so high, they're like, just for a horror film that's just so rare that they're like, wow, this must be great. So I think that kind of encouraged a lot of people to check it out and got on their radar. But the critics score is almost the same for this film. It's 91% versus 97%. So it's really not yeah that different. And again, they came out around the same time same, you know, film distribution company. you know, different you know, they came from different parts of the country and again, different, you know, subgenres. But yeah, I don't know. It seemed like it went a little I guess I'm not even like necessarily hearing, oh, I watch this movie and I hated it. I thought it was trash. I'm just like, there's some buzz on it. I'm hearing some talk, but not nearly as much. And just, you know, with the some of the, you know, commonalities. It was just interesting. Well, for me, late night was it came across as more, comedic and, campy and was playing with horror tropes like, the cult aspect and, the Rosemary's Baby kind of, feel of, getting your career, propelled through, deal with the devil kind of a thing. And I found that just more propelling of one in just being entertained while watching it. And there wasn't it wasn't so deep and there wasn't, it was more cruise control. And I think that might be a more suitable or easy to digest form of horror entertainment for more people. are definitely very different tones. again, they do both have kind of a focus on the psychology of the characters that they're going through. I think it not being deep enough, though, it's like it was in the beginning, but then it wasn't at the end. That's really my biggest issue with Late Night With the Devil. I was very consumed and enjoying the story and cared about the lead character, and I just thought everything that was happening was interesting, interesting. So I was very engaged in the story. I know for some people they're like, oh, not enough. It took forever for something to happen. You know, I actually was very engaged. But again, I was with this story as well. But I think, again, didn't mean to obviously wanted to compare them a bit, but we don't have to go into too much detail here. But, in the beginning of Late Night With the Devil, it seemed like very much trying to connect it to culture and human nature and things, you know, with things that happened in that time period. And I didn't mind the turn that it took at the end. I actually thought it was interesting, but it was one of those that's like, oh, here's the shock twist and that's it. And then I felt like it didn't then connect it to this initial commentary and subtext it presented. So it just fell a little flat for me. I get it, But overall, I think I still appreciate did that. It even tried to do something new because again, Exorcist was brilliant. It's still a lot of horror fans. You know, the one film they're like, oh, this is the one that still really scares me and haunts me. But I think a lot of times when there's a subgenre where there's a horror film that's so iconic, that's I think happened with, night of the Living Dead as well, with zombie films that they find something iconic, and then every other horror film for like 50 plus years is like, okay, well, this is the formula, this is what we got to do, and that there's a lot of similar possession films that even if what they do is good and solid on screen and compelling, and it's good acting and good visuals and, you know, creepy, there's just something drastically taken away from me because it's the same story. And so I think I just so appreciated that late Night With the devil was like, oh no, we're not going to do that. We're going to do this totally different setting, different tone, different focus. It's going to have different connections. so I think like that's and that it was successful, you know, independent kind of going its own path, trying to do something different. I think that's a win alone. I didn't even think, going into it, that it was more of an exorcism type thing. And I don't think they got too much into that. It wasn't really the focus of it, but the, original Exorcist was such a magnificent masterpiece that I agree. It set the tone and set into motion. So many copycats like Star Wars, you know, there's so many knockoffs of that and so forth. But I never got like, how much can you really do with an exorcism? And I tend to go into boredom at the very thought of, okay, you're going to be stuck in a room with somebody while they're chanting stuff out of a Bible, and the other person is going to be contorting and screaming and cursing and whatever, and it's like, okay, what kind of There's gonna be a big showdown. Yeah. And if you could do something, different with that, great. But I never understood why. Why it's a genre at all. But people really like these things. And I've had actors say, oh, and if you ever do one with an exorcism, I want to be in that one. Okay. I'm like, it's not going to happen, but great. Yeah, I don't know if it's just I think it's maybe that film being so iconic, but I would think it's also has to do with like, the devil being the ultimate conceptualization of evil and temptation and taking over. You must be something like that. But likewise, I for me, I felt stop motion put a fresh kind of twist of their own identity in their own exploration on body horror. And I. I love stop motion and I think it it meshes well with horror. I think they work so well with each other, and, Tim Burton is used to it a lot, and I think it's proved successful, but, like, how do you make a movie out of stop motion and horror when what's happening is, moving so slow as far as the artistic process of it? But when you see, like the old Ray Harryhausen films with the skeletons and so forth, that that vibe, it just I love it so much. But I don't know how I would make a movie out of that, but I would love to try. And this direction they took for me, it's not like I'm opposed to psychological thrillers, but I felt like it was lacking an authentic supernatural layer to it that I think would have somehow, lent itself to a more interesting piece for me if it was just more actually scary and, not that what's in the mind isn't the most terrifying thing that can be. The stuff people do in real life is just scary in my mind, I don't know, but it just I would have. I wanted to be more in a different, environment and somehow transported into a different world. That world of the stop motion that she was creating. And that was great for those few seconds here and there. But I didn't feel like that even had it anything to do with the story. It was just sort of this separate little vignette of, a play that were kind of irrelevant. And I it's weird that I would just enjoy those more than the rest of the entire movie if they were more, dovetailed with each other. And we can be more into that world. I think I would have liked it a bit more, a lot more. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. I felt it was just like, I really like the combination of the two styles. And I definitely do agree there's a lot of great kind of creepy stop motion animation. And there's some that are full on horror, but it's it's definitely a rarity. So I liked seeing the escalation and the immersion of the two and what that could create. But yeah, I guess if the what was happening with her outside of the, the piece within the piece didn't work for you, that makes sense. I, I mean, usually I, I love supernatural, so usually I'm all I'm all for that. I don't know, I didn't feel like I needed it and that's and I kind of liked that the art and story had the ultimate power, that it was almost more haunting. What you can create in your mind and what that can do to you than if it was like a ghost or vampire or something like that. I can. as much. I mean, I wouldn't mind if we threw vampires into this movie too, but why not? There is an admiration and respect I have for people who can tell an amazing story just talking over scrambled eggs. And it's like the wow, that just totally blew my mind. What just happened at this breakfast scene? if they could span that, level of, power and creativity in doing something mundane and make it really work, if they could apply that to stop motion or whatever the subject is, then that would been amazing. But it just it's just a me thing. I guess. I just didn't, I didn't feel it here. I feel like this was a missed opportunity. It could have been something great. And that's part of my disappointment. Yeah. I mean, stories either connect or don't connect. So I get it. There's a lot of things I can even love on paper, but I'm like, if it doesn't really immersive, you don't care. If you don't connect, then it just has no impact. And you definitely want a story to have that impact. So make sense. Stop motion is an artistic examination of the dark side of artistic obsession and identity within the art. But perhaps even more importantly, outside of it, the film reflects a mindful examination of the artist's struggle, full of debilitating fear of personal autonomy and moments of exhilarating satisfaction. When you are able to bring dead things to life heavily, playing with a connection between bringing imagination to mundanity and death to life, and a new manifestation If you would like to join our Society of Grotesquerie and Loathing, subscribe now and give this podcast a like and be sure to comment your wretched thoughts below. our podcast suffering on by finding it in your cold, black, withered hearts to support us on Patreon. a link to our PayPal is also below. For one time donations of any amount. It was nice knowing you.
