V/H/S Halloween | Spoiler-free Dissection

Hello, horrorphiles. In this spoiler-free episode, we’ll review V/H/S Halloween now streaming on Shudder.

"A collection of Halloween-themed videotapes unleashes a series of twisted, blood-soaked tales, turning trick-or-treat into a struggle for survival,” according to The Internet Movie Database.

This is Dissecting Horror: Examining the anatomy of fear in film, television and literature with Kelsey Zukowski and Steven Aguilera.

We hope you find it in your cold, black, withered hearts to join our Society of Grotesquery and Loathing and keep our podcast suffering onward:

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Photo credit: Slevin Mors

Transcript

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Hello, horrorphiles. You're listening to Dissecting Horror. Examining the anatomy of fear in film, television and literature. In this spoiler-free review, we dissect V/H/S Halloween. I am filmmaker Steven Aguilera. I'm writer and performer Kelsey Zukowski in our society of grotesquerie and loathing, if you will. I will, and we hope you will subscribe for more. Won't you? A collection of Halloween themed videotapes unleashes a series of twisted, blood soaked tales turning trick or treat into a struggle for survival. According to the Internet Movie Database, In a world where Halloween focused horror films are a rarity. VHS Halloween emerged from the abyss this year to give us some new blood. Halloween Fair ideal for gore hounds, campy horror fans, and those who appreciate the idea of the childlike wonder and spooky delight of Halloween night. Quickly rotting and contorting to something far more malignant. Primal and pitch black. I always appreciate material that takes hold of a familiar, innocent wonder and strips away any safety net, examining what it would look like in a more grim manifestation. And VHS Halloween definitely succeeds there, not letting anyone be free of the terror and bloodshed, including children, which offers a more realistic, brutal view of the manifestations of the dead, unleashing havoc on the living. All the shorts take place around a Halloween tradition, such as trick or treating, exploring a creepy abode, or venturing into a haunted house built for the season. Feeling more connected to Halloween than many Halloween set horror movies do, and offering a more adult, darker view of what that escalation of the trick could look like. Most of the shorts dive into the allure of Halloween and its traditions ingrained in us since childhood. While acknowledging how as we get older and more desensitized, we get bolder and braver, more eager to find something to satiate our appetites for that Halloween nostalgia, as well as the hauntingly thrilling. But in finding just that, the evil that lurks in plain sight. Could trap and torment us forever. Not unlike the film Trick or Treat, which we reviewed last Halloween. It was last Halloween, right? I think we did Hocus Pocus one and two was howling. And trick or treat the year before. I want to say Not unlike the film Trick or Treat, which we reviewed two Halloweens ago. This work is comprised of multiple distinct storylines bound together, with found footage as their primary common tie. It totals five distinct stories, with a sixth wraparound segment, as it's called, which is broken up and plays out between the others. unlike the film Trick or Treat, however, these stories do not intertwine or culminate into some unified overarching story or message. Their only connecting theme is Halloween itself. some segments showcasing it more than others. Beyond that, it does not consider why these distinct videos have been packaged together, or even suggest who put them together. Aside from some sharing a similarity in tone, each brings its own flavor of horror. Having been written and directed by separate filmmakers. You can definitely pick up on some inspiration from Trick or Treat, especially being an anthology largely capturing the spirit of Halloween and the dark consequences it can hold while not being quite on that masterfully crafted level. the one thing missing. To stand among the ranks, along with trick or treat, is the connection between Halloween stories. There are common themes, and all are united by taking place around Halloween tradition and frightening flights of fancy gone horribly wrong. But they aren't truly intersecting. Or for all we know, existing in the same universe. Crossover in the stories or wraparound segment that intersected would have been more effective to make it all feel like a well-oiled machine, connected in grisly horror. I could see myself either revisiting the film on future Halloween seasons, or just a favorite segment or two. That's not a bad thing in itself, but in comparison, Trick or Treat feels more connected, each segment infusing and connecting to the other, all showing the delight and grim consequences of not honoring the spirit and rules of Halloween. I couldn't see myself just watching one segment of Trick or Treat and be satisfied and ready to move on. Each part powers the whole and the whole is so special and essential to take in from beginning to end. This isn't quite on that same level of being a connective anthology Halloween horror collective in the same way. Instead, it feels more like a more brutal adult. Goosebumps telling various scary stories centering around spooky adventures and the Cobb mystery that go horribly wrong. Like sifting through a variety of candy on Halloween night. Each story here was its own unique treat. Whatever you're into from the macabre to the creepy to the spooky to the perverse, there's bound to be something tasty in here that you will enjoy. My trust here was soon earned and I quickly settled in, knowing I was in good hands. Each segment was met with curiosity and interest as to what new direction and creative storytelling was about to unfold. Confident it would land at some satisfying result. Phages Halloween absolutely delivers on the gore giving us buckets of blood and plenty of creativity. The segments feature burning are rotting flesh, bloody eyeballs, and gruesome and psychologically haunting body horror, among many other ghastly ends. It really leans into the bizarre, brutal and grotesque, none of which comes across as pure shock value, but adds to the demented horror of each story, representing a more ghastly side of what lurks in the shadows. This film is not for the faint of heart. It goes to exceedingly graphic places and does not hold back. It is twisted and over-the-top to the point where all one can do is laugh. Pressing things so far beyond reality and into absurdity. That's a word, right? Absurdity. It is funny, and it is gross. I can't imagine any horror fan walking away from this feeling that its potential was not fully reached, that they were let down because it wasn't taken far enough. such a range of disturbing elements might, I suppose, trigger at least one thing in each viewer. As with the brutal outright slaughtering of children in the most gruesome of ways, perhaps this explains its four out of five skulls rating on shudder. You think it was rated lower for harming children? I think there are people who get triggered easily, like if there was like a dog that died in this, it might have, lowered my opinion of it slightly because I don't think that's, something that, filmmakers especially horror should be putting in films because, I don't like it specifically because I don't like it. very, Yeah. No, I if anything was, plus, for me, just that horror is discomforting and ugly and it shouldn't shy away. And that's, if anything, it's more true to life because, I mean, the sad truth is that sometimes horrible things do happen to children, too, you know? So I liked that the whole thing kind of started sort of like the Halloween is almost like a safety net of spooky. Scary, you know, like where for the most part, you don't really fear for your life. It's kind of taking away that safety net and not letting anyone truly be safe from the unrelenting horror I thought was pretty grim. On Rotten Tomatoes. VHS Halloween holds a startling 95% critic score, but 54% audience score. It was 57 a day ago, and dropping. It's usually the other way around with horror. I think the critics tend to be more condescending to it. And the fans, especially if it's a good film, would, bolster it higher. But this is the exact opposite, which I think as time goes on, my faith in Rotten Tomatoes and, any kind of aggregate system like that feels more rigged. Like there's some weird algorithmic thing, that's not working right. Or somebody is manipulating the numbers in a way that, is wrong or immoral. It could be the case. I feel like sometimes, especially with horror, if something is even like in the 90s, the marketing in the film will definitely utilize that because it is such a rarity. But who knows? There could be could be, a workaround there of how they got there. And they're like, okay, if we just capitalize on this, then everyone will want to see our film. I could see someone like Disney having the pull to somehow get in there and manipulate things, but shudder. Probably not. Yeah, no. Because there's I feel like shudder films have a pretty wide range. Like it's usually far more of the niche audience. So they kind of know, especially like something like this, that I think it is all horror fans are going to love it, even just how it the brutality of it. And again, as we've talked about before, the it's very rare where you get a true horror film that takes place on Halloween and in some way is about Halloween. So I think even that in itself, as far as, fan reviews, I know we're both kind of coming into this, not necessarily fans or probably the most experienced. Even with the VHS franchise as a whole. I have heard some other thoughts of people feeling it's kind of like middle for the whole VHS, franchise that is better than some and not as good as others. So maybe that could be a factor. They could be comparing it, like maybe there's another VHS film that they're like, oh, this one was better. So it wasn't quite that good. So it's not five stars for me. Although this film was on my radar, I can't say it was one I was looking forward to or anticipating. In fact, despite many close calls to this day, I've not experienced any other installment of this VHS franchise. But perhaps there is something to be said for going into a film with zero expectations. It is an odd thing. That expectation in itself can be a real factor in how good a movie turns out to be, independent of its actual filmmaking quality, and I do have to say that I was caught off guard by this film. I found it exceptionally imaginative, demented, and entertaining on a scale I was not expecting. Possibly even saying that raises your expectations to the point of potentially diminishing your experience of it. Regardless, this makes me curious to see the others in this franchise, of which there are eight found footage films, two spinoff films, and one mini series. Kelsey, you mentioned that you saw the original VHS movie. How does this compare in quality and style? Well, I was not a fan of the original VHS before Shudder and Bloody-Disgusting collaborated on this franchise, which they took over in the past few years. One of the most offputting elements of the first film was simply a set of truly horrible, unlikable characters. And the opening segment that I dreaded every additional minute I would have to spend with them the thought of their impending brutal deaths, not even doing as much for me as I would have hoped, and it's one I would probably potentially go back to and see if it was as bad as I remember. I think it was mostly that first segment that, like, really killed it for me. And it did have a good reveal, a good ending. But it was it's not it's not often that I have characters in a horror movie that I just can't stand that much, that it just ruins the entire thing for me. And I think that's kind of what happened there. I don't remember it vividly, but I remember the last segment and the original being better, so that redeemed it a little bit, but I think I just, I was just had such a distaste for the film. So it was partially the, the characters and kind of what we, talked about a little bit in our found footage episode of Dissecting Horror. Some of some of the, downfalls is sometimes it can go very style over substance, where you have the shaky cam and the grittiness and things that can, to make it a little bit more raw and real. But then if you don't also invest in the story and make it compelling and make the audience involved and make them care, then everything kind of falls apart. So I feel like it also felt like it was just kind of taking advantage of like the style of found footage without giving me substance. And I always want substance with my horror. I will say VHS Halloween exceeded my expectations as well. This is the first time a VHS film has come out that I really was even intrigued or wanted to see it. And a big part of that is that it focused on Halloween. Absolutely. And just the rarity of a Halloween horror film and wanting to see what they came up with. But additionally, I have a lot of love for shudder as a company, and knowing that they that the original, creative intent and those who kind of controlled this franchise in these films had change. That was definitely an element of it. And knowing that there was a lot of different collaborative indie energy on it. So I'm like, all right, let's give this a shot. And it definitely, it did exceed my expectations as well. And particularly in regard to utilizing the capabilities and strength that found footage style can give you, but also not not, disregarding the importance of the writing and characters, even though not every character needed to be immensely likable or relatable, they are at least written and performed well enough to invest us in the twisted Halloween adventure on hand. Each segment is paced well, giving us and of context of a bigger personal dilemmas, connections, and desires in their lives without spending too much time on backstory before diving into the mystery and terror ahead. In the first full segment entitled Coochie Coochie COO, I feared we were off to a bad start as we are introduced to its two main, thoroughly annoying and unlikable characters, Lacey and Kaylee. My immediate impulse was that I hated them being so early in the film. I dreaded having to endure an hour and 55 minutes of this level of lesser character development. Fortunately, that wasn't the case. To my relief, I came to realize that I felt that way because I was supposed to feel that way. These were despicable characters by design, not the result of bad writing failing to be edgy. We were meant to root for their demise, making it that much more satisfying when they do get their comeuppance. Comeuppance. I like that word. At least I hope that was the intent. I can't completely rule out that this offputting effect may have been, at least in part, unintentional. Interesting. So you were very much how I felt about the cast in the original, and I felt differently about those girls. I mean, not I won't say that they're almost the most profound connective characters ever, but I don't know. I liked the, I guess sort of coming of age about to go on to a next chapter or journey in their lives, or kind of it was very, friendship peace of having one last hurrah for Halloween and, no, overall, overall, I was I liked them enough to care about what happened to them and to want to go with them on, on this journey. And I think that I really actually the that segment was my favorite. I would say, I have two favorites, but, I think that one stands out. The, it has a definite and enchantingly eerie quality to it. And just like the mystery and enigma of this place that they find and, the kind of dark history and morbid curiosity of this place that they're in and trying to figure out what's going on. And as it and unravels more and more. And I was probably it's hard to say there's a lot of weird, in the horror in this whole film. But it's definitely one that leans into the, weird and grotesque and even psychological more and definitely body horror, which, of course, I love. So there was, there was just some very I feel like it was also one that, dug more into the roots of this evil and the, the source of it. Why? Like, what was the spawn and creation of this tragedy that has been infecting other people? And there was just a very, very heavily creepy entrapment involved. So, yes, I enjoyed it quite a bit. If you inspect any musical artists greatest hits album, despite each song being of their highest standard and popularity, Some will still be less favored. People are just going to respond to songs that resonate with them personally for whatever reason. To that point, what may be the weakest segments in VHS? Halloween to me might be the most favored by Kelsey here. In fact, I fully expect her to say that to my face after I finish making my point here. No segment of this film really let me down. Still, I did appreciate some more than others. If pressed, I would say the weakest complete segments were the first and the last. My advice is to always begin and end your work with your strongest material. Research actually backs this up. I'll spare you the fancy technical terminology, but studies show that we most easily recall the first and last items in a series. The stuff in the middle tends to get forgotten. With that in mind, if the audience is more inclined to remember the very first and very last things they see, then these should be given the greatest consideration. If the best impression is to be made and passed on to others. You didn't see it, but my jaw dropped in your statement there. I'm like, of course I, have down. My favorites are the opening and closing. And of course, those are your least favorite Shocker. Yeah. Well, I'll let you, plead your case, and then, I'll give you my favorite. All right, well, we dug into, a little bit of the opening. So for the closing first home haunt, the setting alone, I love. I love the passion and creativity behind any haunted, immersive experience, but especially home haunts, because it's usually people, again who are just passionate and pull resources and just bring. It's like a celebration of haunted splendor, alive and creative fun ways. So the setting alone was fun and, yeah, I just had I like the escalation and then kind of going beyond I mean, I like the ones that were kind of based on trick or treating and how that can go wrong and deadly consequences. But I also liked the representation of digging into some of the origins, more of Halloween and, the, which another segment as above so below also did this and was probably maybe a little bit more on the nose about looking into the, the, the darkness of the other side and with that veil of the living and the dead being most fragile. So I like kind of trying to create some authenticity. And, you know, in having these like, haunt experiences, trying to find something that makes it stand apart and makes it more immersive and more real. But then in tapping into True Darkness, of course, you're always sort of playing with fire and you never know what might come out. And without spoiling too much with the ending, I love that. It was just a fun, chilling energy to it. And there's ample bloodshed. We get a little bit of a final girl fight and just very feral witchy energy. I liked in a way it almost elements of it almost reminded me of like and focus. Focus was even more brutal like rather than it's still, you know and hocus pocus you still have this, you know, it is very dark that they're sucking life out of children. But I feel like that almost this almost took that and made it way more visual and way more brutal and way more bloody. So it was fun. I would still say the first one, Coochie Coochie COO was my favorite, because I think that was just had the most elements working for it. Between the creepiness and the mystery and the body horror and, the roots of tragedy. And for what? The, the origins of that death that creates this infesting, rotting, otherworldly life that is then attacking other people, I think that was the most profound and gone into the most. So the most developed, I would say, and most connective. So that would probably still be my favorite. But I thought it said and done a very brutal, fun, no. did you, recognize the cameo by legendary makeup artist Rick Baker? I don't know. This was in the shop or no, in the line at the haunt. Yeah. He was, one of the people going through, I think he was giving the, tour guide the father a hard time throughout the whole thing. He was the, makeup artist behind American Werewolf in London. I think he won an Oscar for that. I'm not really sure. And he did, the Wolf Man with Benicio Del Toro and Tim Burton's Planet of the apes. Men in black, King Kong, 1979. Even worked on Star Wars A new Hope. I actually have his autograph, and it's, I never met him, but he signed it to Steve only because my friend Steve, who used to work for him, asked for his autograph. And then, Steve gave it to me. And if I could just refrain from telling everybody that it's made out to my friend Steve and not me, then I could probably get away with his original intent of it looking like an autograph intended for me. But I still have it, and I treasure it. But, was curious if you would even know who Rick Baker was, but I do, I do know know who it is. I just didn't recognize him by my face. But that's very cool. About 20 minutes in, I began considering the toll this film was having on my tummy. Not so much from the extreme gore or any emotional distress, but rather induced by the many strobing lights and whipping around of the frenzied handheld camerawork. After rushing in time to the bathroom to empty the contents of my stomach, it occurred to me that perhaps it was the combination of the big bowl of buffalo chicken wings. I just enjoyed, coupled with a large, refreshing fruit smoothie I had whipped up and two rich, sugary donuts I had previously eaten. but may have had more to do with it. My point is, if you're feeling at all nauseous before watching this film or are prone to motion sickness in general, I would advise you to either not watch it or somehow just not be nauseous before watching it. Throwing up beforehand may help regardless. After disgorging my dinner I felt better and the movie also felt better. Just need to eat some eyeballs right before you watch it, because then you can be right in tune with the characters. If you've seen this movie, you'll you'll get that reference. Speaking of which. Despite having to read subtitles, which I loathe, my favorite was the Spanish segment entitled IRT supra SIC infra, which translates from Latin to as above, so below. At the risk of sounding like a snob, I did not expect this caliber of filmmaking to unfold. I would even venture to say this was one of the most effective and memorable horror sequences I have ever seen, and it really stayed with me. Exceptionally creative, compelling, acted, shot and thought through. Well, I'm glad that was your favorite and not 1 or 2 of the other ones, because I did like that one a lot too, so I can respect that. We actually agree about something. Yeah, I definitely, I think there was a good, a good setup to it's where you're kind of already anticipating the darkness, but then kind of going into what this might entail and digging into sort of, I guess, like the history of who they're trying to reach and then and sort of again, playing with that, trying to channel the other side and even even with good intentions, how horribly wrong that can go, Them Spanish, they're they're good at their horror. What was the one that I was I was going to rewatch, The Orphanage. Oh, great. Great movie. But, yeah, not Benicio. I get Benicio mixed up with Guillermo. I think one of them's from Mexico. I think Gerome was actually from Mexico. And I keep thinking he's from Europe, And fittingly enough, there was another great foreign film called As Above, So Below, which was French. Oh. What was the Spanish one which was found footage as well. So, you know, doesn't was it wreck. That was, Spanish. Yeah. Okay. That's that's the other one I haven't seen. Yeah. Wreck. And then quarantine was the American remake, right. And I've not seen that either. The film's atmosphere and various setting for each segment brings peak Halloween nostalgia and macabre wonder full of jack o lanterns, candy that bites back, classic green cackling witches that don't relent from bloodshed, and labyrinthine haunted houses with tragedy, mystery and hypnotic entrapment. There's ample creepy intrigue with the settings alone complemented by an ominous, tension fueled score that builds off that unsettling yet oddly enchanting mystery. Weirdly, it wasn't until an hour and 20 minutes in that it occurred to me that everything here was found footage. That aspect was almost invisible, since it was so seamlessly integrated into each story, and what was happening felt so organic. Or maybe I'm just so used to the format that I don't think of it as being out of the ordinary anymore. I did feel I was pretty natural. The found footage style was well utilized, each segment offering a reason for the filming from video diaries of one last Halloween horror to crime scene investigative retreats, there is a more gritty, raw, natural feel to each story, almost putting us in the shoes of the Halloween adventurers as they face off against the terror before them. There are a lot of wide shots, with the camera dropped among the dark escalation that has taken place left skewed and off center, creating a wider sense of dread and paralyzing fear. This would have been a good one to see in a theater with a crowd. In fact, I think its effectiveness is diminished by the fact that I watched it by myself in my sparse apartment, all alone. Okay, that that painted me as sadder than I intended. enjoyed some aspect of nearly every short here. The wraparound segment was campy, gory, and macabre, but I did feel it got a little repetitive by the end. Still nothing that took away my enjoyment from the film. It just didn't engross me as much as others. The segment Kid Print felt a little bit like an outlier, the only one that didn't involve supernatural horrors, creepy intrigue, or tap into the wicked, fantastical spirits from beyond coming to life and seizing power on Halloween night. Still, I can appreciate the depiction of human evil existing in the world. Even if Halloween wasn't as crucial of an element on this segment, it did tie in the evil hiding in plain sight, which was present in many of the other shorts, and it did broadly touch on relevant dangers and fears with kids trick or treating. I think there was a little more potential there to tap into that human evil and grounded fear beyond the supernatural. If they were going to have one stand apart from the others, it was still creepy and push the limits of the taboo of children being harmed in horror films and had a form of trickery and its reveal. But it's probably it's a key piece that at times makes the anthology feel a little more disjointed than it should. Absent here is any sense of investor interference, people pleasing, focus groups playing it safe or meddling studio execs. The pure joy of horror filmmaking definitely shines through. Each segment of this VHS film was written and directed by the same person. I will always advocate that whoever writes the script should ideally direct it so that he or she may carry forward their purist vision from original inspiration through to final result. In fact, this VHS franchise has become a prominent format for new horror talent in writing and directing is discovered and showcased under the umbrella of a feature film. Hell, that would be actually right up my alley. If I may may be so blunt. there is no way of submitting oneself for consideration, Since the offer is by invitation only. But if anyone out there from shudder is listening. For the record, I would be very excited to participate. Now. Thing is, I don't know if if they take people who have like existing shorts that they've seen and say, our next VHS film will be with the theme of Halloween or 1987 or something. And can you write something from scratch that aligns with that mandate? Or if it's one where I could write some generic enough story, and then if it's a Halloween theme, I can just make it happen on Halloween night or something like that. So I'm pensive about writing anything until, anything happens, if anything happens. Yeah, I think more, probably more likely they're they have an idea. This is going to be our next VHS film or, you know, for any horror anthology, I think and having either like a setting or theme. And then I guess either opening it up to filmmakers, submit what you have, or they might have certain filmmakers in mind of like, hey, we're doing this. We'd love to see what you have sent us your entry. But along those lines, if you were hired to develop one of the shorts in VHS Halloween and make it into a feature, which one would you choose? Oh. It wouldn't be the first or the last one. You make them so likable where you're like, these are people. Well, I'm reluctant to say anything that would, tick off the people who I hope to hire me. I don't know. like, what do we have? We have the, I don't think the wraparound one would work for, you'd have to develop a lot. You have to add a lot more to that. I mean, it's possible, but. yeah, But. Yeah. So, so not the first one, the Spanish one. It feels like there's a very strong setup and payoff, and I don't think there needs to be anything more to tell that story. I think if you stretched out that set up to be an hour, and then the payoff to be the last half hour, it'd be like, plodding. And I don't think that would work for me. fun size was. Was that the one with a conveyor belt that was with the penises? That's the one. Yeah, I think that works better as a gag. Yeah. I don't think any of them would really potentially be, suitable for a feature. And that's something I was thinking about. If I made a segment, would I engineer it to have franchise potential? Would it have some Chucky like character or some sort of premise like Nightmare on Elm Street that could be developed into its own feature film? But that's that remains to be seen. But yeah, I don't I think as far as the tone and the type of film, I think the Spanish one is more most along the lines of what I would come up with, but I don't think that particular story, would be easily translated into feature format, And another question. Every one of these stories takes in the club atmosphere and setting that could create intrigue. But with the largely devastating ends for those that walk into the darkness they behold. If you had to wake up in one of these haunted experiences, which story would you choose Ooh! Not the first one. Maybe. Actually the first one. You do like creepy, mysterious, see, that's the one that I grew up watching, so I feel like It is very gross, Yeah. And I like an A for me and a good one. I. But I'm also one. I have so many. Health woes. I guess you could call it that. Body horror is actually cathartic and soothing for me. So the more like, deteriorated and gross it is, it's actually soothing and even a little empowering. Kid print that was actually taking place in the 80s. And, I remember the 80s. And so I think I would, I would like to be in that universe again. that esthetic with, videotapes and all the rest of it, in fact, my friend whose name is Steve, who worked for Rick Baker, we used to hang out, in the 80s, and he used to do makeup effects on me and so forth. And he, he had a a video camera, and we would make little shorts back then. So there's, there's a nostalgia factor, but for people like you who aren't really, out of diapers by then, I don't know that it would have the same impact. Although you liked, Stranger Things, didn't you? Yeah. I mean, I was just going to say, like, yeah, Halloween in the 80s with. And I mean, that's just like one of the best periods for horror and a lot of film. There was I was a great, a very great decade for film as a whole. So I could see I could see the appeal of, 80s Halloween night. And I thought, oh, you're not one of the kids that get kidnaped. right? I don't remember that ever happening. Were they? They would take footage of everybody in case they were killed. I mean, that sounds like. Yeah, I don't know where that comes from. Maybe that was a thing in the Midwest or something, but, that episode I thought was very clever. I loved how it ended, and it kind of buttoned all the, loose ends of what? The possibilities of who did what. And I'm trying to talk without saying anything, so my hands are tied. But let's just say that I thought it was one of the more entertaining ones and creepy in a way, because it wasn't supernatural, just because it could actually happen in reality. Yeah, I like I liked that. I think for me it felt stronger as a short than a piece of the collective Halloween story. Many of the shorts nearly work as Halloween centered morality tales in line with Grimm, fairy tales with horror being unleashed and responses to chaos, disrespect and playing with fire, characters test the limits of following the rules of trick or treating, like taking more than one piece of candy and challenging the year too old for trick or treating judgments. They get some even test a more dangerous boundary of spirits from the other world in hopes of a good scare, or even a well-intentioned but deadly pull to connect with the dead. Some are more effective than others in sticking the landing and finding a voice in the tone of a dark forewarning, or a look at tragedy allowed to erode and in fact, like in Coochie Coochie COO, but others feel a little inconsistent. I very much enjoyed the demented and trapping nature of the short, fun size and its gleefully vicious, enigmatic villains, but if it was a morality tale motivation of keeping order to the chaos and disregard for Halloween rules, then this wouldn't have affected most of the characters. We have to assume our villains are only motivated by entrapping, toying with their victims, creating fear, and unleashing hell without any true rhyme or reason. Perhaps beyond relishing that fear and mayhem, even that we really don't know. Part of me is okay with that. There is something to a monster you can't begin to understand or attempt to reason with. The short was still twisted fun, but the lack of truly having a purpose or a point at the end does hold it back and makes it stronger as a short and less so as a piece of the anthology that isn't as connected in theming. these are all short, so I get having a little less time to dig into them, but it is something that can be done with one line of dialog, or to have the direction of the story go a different way to allow it to be an anthology aligned in its narrative. I did notice that in the first episode, if you rewatch it, you'll see the two girls, encountering some of the characters in the neighborhood that do appear. Later, they come across the old couple who, they're scolding somebody in the later episodes. I'm not sure. And then there's another one where they. They're at the house where you're only supposed to take one one piece and they grab the whole thing and run. And I thought, oh, okay, well, these are going to all intertwine later in some way, but I watch those later episodes and we don't see those girls appear in them. So it's like there was a very vague, almost afterthought that we're going to make these things somehow fit and dovetail together. But I think it just kind of made it more confusing. Like, set up expectations for failing because they did nothing with that later, and it was so hastily done that it didn't really sink in. What was happening, because it was never carried forward in any of the other segments. Interesting. I did not recognize of like, oh, this is that person from that other segment. So I think I just took them as different characters or just didn't make that connection. So in a way, I kind of appreciate the effort of I mean, that adds to it somewhat that this could be happening in, like in at least adjacent neighborhoods on the same Halloween night. I kind of like that more than just like various. Well, I guess it's not all the same night because one of them's in the 80s, but. So maybe. Yeah, I think there was I think. But like even with like a lot of the, the themes and most it's like almost connecting and almost there on that same level. But yeah, there's a few, there's a few disconnects that I think hold it off from being as, as well crafted and as connected as something like trick or Treat. Do you think that if they did, somehow find a connective tissue to, bind all of these different episodes together, it would have made it better? Or do you think that each one was best suited in their different time frames and different settings? No. I think it would have been better. I think that's what would have set it, set it above, from like it. For me, this was like enjoyable and good but had but had some flaws. And those flaws are kind of all rooted in not and not being connected enough. So I think that would have really pushed it to a higher level and made it a better film for me. I think. I think you're right. It would have probably reminded me of Trick or Treat, and I would have thought, oh, are they trying to emulate that? But that's kind of a superficial criticism for me to have. But at the same time, I think one of the strengths of this film was that each of the individual stories was told by a distinct voice, and to have somebody above that somehow controlling each of the, narratives from each of these artists might somehow trip up their creative freedom in what stories they wanted to tell, especially since one is in Spain and the others are in America. It would have been kind of hard to make those fit. Yeah, I, I definitely respect that. This was very indie. Like, it seemed like each and in like a good way. I mean that and that each story felt true to that filmmaker and the story that they wanted to tell. So I loved that aspect. I think what the anthology is, I usually my at least my hope or expectation is for them all to connect into this bigger story. So I feel like it would be different if I was like watching these at a film festival and they were in like a random block, then I would probably enjoy them all on their own merits. But I think with an anthology there is, it's implied that they're all a part of this bigger story, at least for me. And if it was a situation where they each were assigned to write a story based on a particular theme and nothing was actually written or converted into conform to this, Halloween premise, it could have been a thing where they just said, as part of your mandate, we need your story to fit in with some of these other stories. Here's some connective thread that, should happen, or we're going to work with you after you write your story to make that happen. But there was no such thing there. So maybe it was. They all have their individual stories, and then they just, made them somehow fit for Halloween. Some stories actually had very little connection to Halloween, like the, the Spanish one even, it wasn't really so Halloween themed. They just, made it so that they were going to an underground Halloween party and they were dressed, but it could have been really in any setting or any time of year, technically. But I think, like they mention of Halloween, the, the bridge between the living and the dead being most, like open and fragile. That's kind. And I liked that in a way, because a lot of the other segments tapped more into, I guess, like more modern traditions of Halloween. So for me, that was more taking it back to like the original roots of Halloween. I see. And that's that's the essence of As above. Okay. Well, that makes more sense. Well, that's actually even more genius than I thought. the it would be very challenging, but I think a good, a good writer or showrunner would somehow be able to make it all work together. But I'm okay with this. I think this this came off well, and I feel, if I was to write something for a segment I think it would feel more liberating for me to be able to write whatever I wanted. Yeah. I think it's, it would be, I guess, ideal either to have the idea from the beginning of, like, these are kind of like how we want to connect things, like even a lot of, for me felt like Halloween, like morality tales or like for warnings. So if that was consistent with all of them, I feel like the idea of them would have been enough to make them all feel connected. Even if you didn't have one character walking through the same neighborhood. Someone in the other short. Like that's almost more important that the themes and voice to be more connected. But at the same time, I don't want to compromise, let's say the Spanish one. I don't see that as being compatible with Fun Size. They're just so completely different in their, even almost genres, more of a comedic tone or campy. And the Spanish one was definitely more serious or procedural. Even so, to connect those two, I think both of them would suffer to be yanked from their place that they were intended to be more like something that the other is not. Yeah, I think, though, they both can kind of connect and like, yes, very different tones, but they're both sort of challenging. Against the norms of Halloween or things that happen on this day. One more, it seemed like they had good intentions or were trying to connect or understand this person from the past, but and so kind of opening a door and you don't know who's going to come in. So it's a little bit of like a plain with fire thing. I mean, fun size. Yes. It was more just kind of pushing limits and being funny and chaos for the sake of it. But that was also be careful. Be careful who you trifle with, sort of a thing. All right. Well, I think it would be a tricky thing to pull off. And I wouldn't want something shoehorned in, like at the end of a marvel film where they just kind of stick something there just to set up a connection with another, film or story. It would need to happen organically, and it's possible. It'd be very tricky, but I don't know that, it's necessary for this franchise if the precedence is just to have a series of shorts aligning to, a loose overall theme, but I haven't seen any of the other ones, so I guess, I should probably do that but I definitely want to see the first one. I don't know if I want to invest into seeing eight movies and a series and then two spinoffs. That seems like a bit much. I might, I'm not going to necessarily rush off immediately soon as we end this podcast, but I would I would definitely consider watching, the more recent ones with Shudder and Bloody-Disgusting because I like what they did with this one. And I have heard there are some better ones. So I think they kind of tap into different genres. I mean, different decades of horror. So, yeah, I would consider if I, you know, liked this one that they did. And then going into a past one and because again, it might have been a very different tone and voice with the, with the shift in ownership. I think a great many adults would love to relive the experience of trick or treating. What I wouldn't give to go trick or treating again. And there's nothing really stopping that from being a thing beyond the cultural agreement that it's somehow only meant for children, if anything, as grown ups would appreciate it most. Unlocking a powerful nostalgia within and giving us this one day a year when we get to be kids again in disguise. Economically speaking, it would do nothing but stimulate further sales of Halloween candy, costumes, and merch. Personally, I think it would be fun and endearing to see grown ass adults at my door dressed up with candy buckets extended as long as they weren't being shitty, drunk or threatening about it. Of course. Yeah, I agree, I would, not so much for the the candy, but I mean, I love even walking over here seeing some people's Halloween decorations. It's like a good I always like the reminder, especially in Southern California, having grown up in the Midwest. I love October, one internal October. But sometimes it feels less like Halloween here in the Midwest, especially with, like, the fall foliage and all that. So any reminder I can get as much Halloween centered material I can watch, as much I can see. The more being involved with that, I think, is, yeah, it's just like a fun sort of escapism. With dashes of spooky. And I just, I love seeing the different. I love the costume aspect, too, of being someone different for a day and just having fun and being creative with it. So yeah, I think I agree, like, and I liked how they tapped into a lot of trying to challenge the judgment of being too old for trick or treating, and I liked that it was a lot of even young adult characters, but trying trying to have a own sense of their rush or thrill or fun of Halloween, even if it's escalated from what they would have wanted as kids. There's much about Los Angeles or Hollywood, if you will, that influenced or informed our overall sense of what, Halloween is through the the movies that have been made yet it feels like this pocket of the world is excluded from actually feeling like Halloween itself. Like, I really it's so hard to get that vibe to, to really feel like you're in the spirit of Halloween here, because it always feels like summer all year round. Most people, I think, would really, they come here for that reason, but I kind of hate it myself. I prefer a more, cold, gray, miserable sort of, environment. Something probably more like, San Francisco or even Portland, something like that. That's more foggy and so on. But, let's not say I hate it here, but as I look out my window and I see the sun shining in and it feels kind of like hot and stuffy in this room, and can't get into the spirit of Halloween so much here. And so it feels like we never really get to enjoy it. Yeah. The the crisp, chilly nights are always are always nice and does make it feel a little bit more more true. I think I went, a hunt, I think it was like September, but it was still Halloween season and it was like 90 degrees. So that that wasn't quite ideal. And like I said, I just really, really love the colors of fall and fall foliage and all of that. So not having that is a bummer. But there's also things like, I remember, having my costume as a kid and going trick or treating, and in Ohio, it was always cold and windy on Halloween, almost too much. So where I would usually have to wear, like my big puffy winter coat over my costume and you can't even, I'm like, no, I want to show off my costume. I want to be whoever I'm being that year. So, I mean, there's there's the good in the bad. I don't like very cold weather. I hate that, but fall is like the perfect for me. It's. Yeah. Not as sunny, a little cooler, chillier, but not freezing where I'm miserable. I don't think I've ever actually experienced freezing because I've never lived outside of California, If I had another suggestion for Halloween, I think someone needs to sell a big bag of candy beyond the usual variety of 3 or 4 kinds. That's actually consistent with what you would realistically get as a haul at the end of trick or treating. I'm talking extreme random variety with a few great things, a few obscure, and a bunch of nostalgic. It might even have things like, a little box of raisins or a little thing of walnuts from that one twisted lady on every block, pushing kids to eat healthier snacks. This could even be sold in a pillowcase or a choice of classic candy bucket designs. It's kind of like you get the reward of having trick or treated without doing the work. Yeah, and I suppose if you're not allowed to do the work because you're an adult, you can at least have that experience at the end of just having candy, I like that. No, I think that's cool to have. What realistically, if you had gone trick or treating, these are the type of things that you would have gotten. That's actually a pretty good profitable idea. Yeah, I'm sure many adults would, buy that. many lazy adults just go to Walmart and grab the the bag of candy. For me, the most disturbing tradition of Halloween is a revolting practice I've never actually witnessed in person. I'm talking about bobbing for apples, When I was very little, I really. really wanted to try this. But now, if it seems rather unsanitary, to say the least, to plunge one's face, hair and open mouth into a tub of wet fruit slathered in kid spit and kid snot as everyone sloshes their filthy lips, tongues and teeth over at all or is it just me, Did you ever bob for apples when you were a kid? Where you're from? I don't think so. I mean, there was, like, caramel and candy and apples that you would get, but I don't think I had like a barrel. I had, throw my face into which. Yeah, I agree, doesn't it doesn't sound great. And that's probably the real horror would be in whatever disease you get. And definitely now as an adult, I could I just think of, like, I have a very sensitive jaw. I would like, probably like, unhinge at the attempts of that. yikes. Well, there's also the fact that kids are probably wearing makeup and they have oils in their skin. There's so many secretions that can come off of a child that you don't want festering in this, big tub of water, which is, like, probably warm and like a big petri dish for every other kid to become infected with. And then their family, then the world, and everyone's dead. Definitely. I can see the camera going into a microscopic level as amoeba are working their way into people's ears, and, that's actually a real thing. You can. You can get an amoeba in a river swimming in, it will get into your brain and, it can kill you. I am a fan of any, body horror. know. Well, eco water and body horror. So, yeah, you had it at all. Isn't it funny how many, categories of horror there are? You can take any any, like, peanut butter, peanut butter horror. Well, I am allergic to No, I could be more. Yes. A very diverse genre, Being the first VHS film that is piqued my interest since the original VHS Halloween, even if not perfect, exceeded my expectations and was a worthy venture. Back to the franchise. Things I didn't like in the first one were handled better here. Less style over substance, better use of the gritty, jarring, claustrophobic attributes of found footage and stronger atmosphere writing and characters that actually pull you in and make you want to go on this haunted, grim adventure with them. VHS Halloween worked off the childlike wonder and macabre marvel of Halloween Nights, but then reimagines it in a more adult scope, pushing its subjects far beyond a harmless scare, delivering a worthy and much appreciated addition to Halloween horror. When it's Halloween, we've got like a week and a half. Yeah, it's Friday, not next Friday. But the following. I don't know about you, but I well, I love all of October. And of course Halloween is the most exciting day of the year. So I just love Halloween. But I'm always like kind of torn because I'm like excited that we're getting closer and closer to Halloween. But the closer we get, the sooner it will be over. And then I'll be sad. Yeah. How much of that is just in our heads, though? Because it's really a date. I mean, we can create in our lives, in our routines, Halloween, any time we want. We can enjoy the food, we can enjoy the films. But I suppose there are certain attractions. don't some of these attractions actually extend into, November? Do they just all stop? Some. Some will go because Halloween is also on a Friday this year. So some like immersive haunted walkthroughs, will extend that weekend, which is November 2nd, which is also fitting because that's day of the dead And all the candy is a lot cheaper the next day. But I'm trying to lay off candy. will partake and we'll get a small bag of something, but I it's usually the the point of downfall for me every year is, that particular day and it's such a slippery slope because you start a little bit and then it's like, you know, I'll just enjoy myself for the next couple days and then, oh, that was really good. I think I'll have a little more. And then pretty soon, 10 pounds later, you're regretting your decisions, but I think, Halloween. It's worth it. Good for you. Enjoy what you can. I think one bite would kill me. Fair enough. Well, I'm. But I do also like the discounted Halloween decor. Or, as I like to call it, year round home decor. Do you go to Michael's? Oh, yeah. I went once this season and then you have the later in the season it gets even like Spirit Halloween the day after Halloween. They usually have everything like 50% off. So that's when I'll let myself indulge a little more. What do you get? Just like signage and clocks and things or little figurines of black cats and, Yeah, I can be some of that. Like. Well, I have certain certain themes in my apartment, so I have my kitchen is very witchy focused. So one year and with a heavy hocus pocus, focus. So one year there was like a plaque that said, like, it's just a bunch of hocus pocus. So I got that one year or, my bathroom is sort of like aquatic horror. So a lot of creature from the Black Lagoon. But recently when I went to Michael's, they had this pretty cool looking, like feral siren Woman, and it was sort of like a sculpture. So now that sits in my bathroom, so, you know, just different or even like Michael's has a lot of, like, like artwork, like picture frame stuff. I got like a Edgar Allan Poe, like photo, photograph with some, like, quotes from some of his, books, and, I don't know, various I think I one year I got, like, a raven mask. So, you know, just what what whatever fits, whatever catches my eye. Do you have a wardrobe filled with, costumes or costume adjacent sort of attire? I have a section of my closet that is. Yes. Are you into hats? No. Not really. Oh, I mean, the occasional, like, witchy hat, but in general, I don't like how hats feel on my head. Well, I look at you and I look down at your shirt and there's actually kind of a symmetry in the bangs and the hairstyle, the I'm wearing and Elvira shirts just to paint a picture for the listeners. She is in a graveyard stabbing a pumpkin, puking. It's pumpkin guts up with, like, little ghosts and skeletons and jack o lanterns and such. And cleavage actually not Kelsie so much as Elvira herself representing for me. There you go. On that note, Happy hunting. If you would like to join our Society of Grotesquerie and Loathing, subscribe now and give this podcast a like and be sure to comment your wretched thoughts below. keep our podcast suffering on by finding it in your cold, black withered hearts. To support us on Patreon. 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