Leading with Heart: - Sarah Louise Gandolfo (Ep 1)

Leading with the Heart - Sarah Louise Gandolfo (Ep 1)

Presented by Kriegler Education and hosted by Lili-Ann, this podcast is your new go-to for insights and inspiration in early childhood education.

In the inaugural episode, we are thrilled to feature Sarah Louise Gandolfo, a celebrated and award-winning leader in the early childhood sector in Australia. Known for her passion, dedication, and transformative impact, Sarah shares her journey, including the challenges she faced and the lessons she learned along the way.

Listen to Sarah’s compelling story about overcoming burnout, staying true to your values, and the power of relationships in professional growth. Her insights on self-care and finding joy in your work are invaluable for anyone dedicated to early childhood education.

Don’t miss this inspiring conversation that promises to enlighten and motivate educators and enthusiasts alike. Join us as part of a community striving to elevate early childhood education.

 Listen to the first episode of "For Your Ears from the Early Years" now!

Transcript

00:00:00Speaker 1 This is For Your Ears from the Early Years. The podcast connects you with the leading voices in early childhood education. Join me, Lili-Ann Kriegler, weekly as I bring you engaging interviews and fresh insights to inspire and inform your practice brought to you by curricular education; let's map the future one episode at a time.  

Welcome to the Kriegler Education podcast. To 'For Your Ears, from the Early Years. I'm Lili-Ann, and this is our inaugural episode. I'm thrilled and honoured to introduce our very first guest, Sarah Louise Gandolfo. 

Hello, Sarah. Thank you so much for agreeing to be the first interviewee on this podcast dedicated to the early years. 

00:00:57 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Lili-Ann. It is such a privilege and an honour to be in this space with you and to have a yarn. 

 00:01:06 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're happy to do that because having a yarn is exactly what this is about.  Now, Sarah Louise, please briefly introduce yourself to our listeners. 

00:01:17Speaker 2: Of course. I'm Sarah Louise. I call myself a forever learner.   I am the type of person that can't stay out of the classroom. I have a little bit of a problem in that area, so I am an early childhood teacher. I have been for a number of years now, but I also have a Masters's Degree in Educational Leadership.  I've done a bit of work in research and we'll be hoping to do a PhD sometime in the near future. That will all be dependent, of course, on the fact that I've got two young children; a 6 year old and a 10 year old in primary school.  I'm now no longer an early childhood mum, but very much still early as a primary. So it will all depend on where that kind of heads into the future and what that looks like.  

0:01:59Speaker 1 Well, it's always difficult putting together motherhood, career and your extensive activities beyond those things, which we will get to fairly soon. 

Still, you've given us a little bit of an idea, but would you share with our listeners a bit about your journey in the early year childhood sector and how did you discover your passion for it? 

 0:02:25Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.   I love actually talking about this because I feel like a lot of people in early childhood came to early childhood the same way I fell into it after high school. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't have the marks to go to university. I had this brief, you know, kind of notion I wanted to do architecture or psychology.  But you know, Atar was not for me. I needed to do something else.  And so I ended up doing the diploma programme at Swinburne University four days a week. You know, full-time hours, very full-on which is, you know, kind of unlike what we have now.  But what that two-year course did for me was open my eyes to a world I had no idea about. I'm the eldest of four, so I've been to my brother and sisters' kindergarten, and I've done some volunteer work. You know, I've done some childcare work during high school as well, but I didn't really realise that it was so much bigger and that there was more to it.  There was planning, learning, and relationships with families beyond drop-offs and pick up.  

And so that was the moment that I went this is for me.  This is what I want to do.  and I, you know, had the ambition to go to university.  t did take me a few years to get to that point because I didn't have the kind of academic rigour that I do now.  I had to take my time, worked, and was a room leader. I met people in the sector, and I went from kind of position to position as my qualifications grew.  Eventually, I landed in leadership and management roles and found myself in advocacy, doing things outside of services at that point.   I had, you know, about 10 to 15 years of working in services before I went down the path of consulting. Being with people in different capacities has been really interesting as well. I love that this sector is so multifaceted that we can dig into our passions at multiple levels, which is exciting.  

0:04:36Speaker 1 Yes, and you've described not one pivotal moment but several pivotal moments and several realisations. I am a great believer in AHA moments in these interstitial moments between one thing and another.  But let's talk about that reflecting on your career. What are the key milestones or the moments that shaped your professional identity? And how did it lead you to throw this spotlight on understanding relationships within the industry?   I want to know all the great stuff that you've achieved as you've made your way in this incredible sector that we belong to.  

I think relationships have been a huge part of every key milestone for me, and it was when I started to realise that those relationships were key.  I was realising that there was more to the sector than met the eye, it wasn't that, you know, just babysitting and playing with children all day. There was more to it.  But those relationships, I guess, kept me going.  And as I think about my career trajectory and the fact that.  You know, I left positions for higher positions because my qualifications changed, and I wanted to make some progress.  The people around me supported me, pushed me, and encouraged me, sending me off to PD, and spending time with, and talking with me about my ambitions.  These amazing leaders, in particular, are helping me to grow, and that's when I thought I wanted to be that person, too.  I want to be that person for other people coming through. I realised that that relationship piece was where my strength was connecting with others and building them up as well.  and so as I've moved through, like, yes, I've won a few awards and gotten some scholarships along the way.  But I don't equate them to my success.  I  equate them to the success of the people around me, who I've been very fortunate to work with and those relationships, I think, have continued to carry me, and I've got my coaches and mentors who work with me at that professional level, and I've got professional colleagues and people that exist in different spheres for different reasons.  But again, those relationships are where the heart of this work is, whether it's with families, whether it's with the children, or whether it's as adults in that professional space.  Oh, I can't say the word relationships enough, you know. 

 0:07:17Speaker 1: You're very humble.  You've glossed over those awards, and I would like you to mention them because, as you've said, Sarah Louise, you want to be someone who can be a leader, someone that other people might follow.  So even talking about your awards and scholarships will inform other people about what they might aspire to and achieve the way you have. You should be pretty specific about what they are.  

0:07:50 Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's fine.  The first one that I won was the Agnes Barents Conference Award through Early Childhood Australia, Victoria.  This was before I was on the committee before I even fully understood what ECMA was and what the committee did.  That award allowed me to attend a conference in Queensland, so I attended the ACL Early Childhood Conference, where I presented. 

That was one of my first presentations, so I went along and presented there.  And I got to share the work I was doing in service with a range of other amazing professionals from across Australia, which has created some relationships with people I'm still connected with. In 2020, I was also the ACL New Voice Scholarship Award winner for Early Education and Care, which was exceptionally pivotal in changing the type of work I was doing. And obviously, we were in the pandemic at that time; 2020 was quite a surreal time.  And I needed to focus more on what I wanted to do.  and that put me on a path.  took a little bit deeper at academia in particular because being the award winner for that got me invited to the editorial board for the ADL Journal, which predominantly has yet to have an early childhood voice in terms of the journal or the editorial board.  To be in that space with principles and professors and people from all over the country has just been absolutely amazing and an absolute gift for my professional identity. And then I think it was a year later, or a couple of years later was recognised as one of the AJEC’s 100 years of Excellence Award winners, so to recognise the people who have stuck it out, done the work for a really long time and continue to make a difference in the sector in multiple different ways.  So those were the three that, you know, really stand out for me and all of which, again, when we think about those pivotal moments, have certainly put me on a path of deeper commitments and wanting to do more thinking.  When I get to that point of going, what more can there possibly be?  Actually, there is so much more. And it reignites that fire and just kind of keeps me going a little bit, but absolutely, if listeners think about awards and nomination, you know, Early Childhood Australia and Victoria, other States and territories as well, I sit on the Victoria Branch, but other States and territories, and the National organisation as well have a range of awards and we really want to recognise the people that are doing good work, whether in metro areas or, you know, regional rural towns.  Everyone's doing great stuff, and we'd love to celebrate that and showcase the work of people.  

0:10:47Speaker 1: That's amazing.   I remember the new voice coming across my LinkedIn and it really made me aware of what you were doing. It was pivotal for you.  I've used that word before, pivotal, but, again, can you go over AEL? Can you tell us what that stands for? 

 0:11:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the Australian Educational Leader journal.  So it’s a peer-reviewed journal, the editorial board Do Blind Review every article that comes through and what we're looking to showcase, you know, research papers that people would like to publish but also success stories predominantly around leadership.  But there is a little bit about practice there as well.  It's very relational. Well, we want to show the sector as an education sector as a broader sector that there are intersections between early childhood primary, secondary, and tertiary, that new things are happening on a regular basis.  And I think the AEL Journal makes that really accessible.  Like, yes, it is part of a membership.  You do need to purchase it, but I think it makes the reader engage in a really different way than what research looks like, because it's not a traditional academic journal. It's got really lovely pictures, and it feels nice in your hand, and it's just a beautiful, almost magazine style journal that I find would be really useful to, you know, write all over highlight post it.  t's a very practical journal. Which I guess makes it differ a little bit from traditional journals, so it makes that a little bit more accessible, but I'm so pleased that you know, over the time that I have been on the editorial board, we have had an early childhood voice, an early childhood piece in almost all editions and I'm continuing to get LinkedIn messages, you know, weekly about people who are wanting to share their work, not knowing where to go to get that published.  And you know, I think AEL is a really great space for those leaders in the sector doing amazing work.  

0:12:56Speaker 1: Now, I so agree with you that sometimes the early years are left out of that idea that education is a lifelong thing, and you identify yourself immediately as a lifelong learner.  It does start almost before a child is born, and I often think that the early childhood space is seen as a bit of an island away from the other education, and sometimes even not as important, so I'm thrilled that you are putting us in exactly the space that we need to be so people understand the value of it.  

Now you have a professional identity. Professional identities can be quite personal. So tell us a little bit about your professional identity and if you can name some of the core values you link with who you are as an early childhood professional.  

0:14:01Speaker 2 It's a really great question because my professional identity has changed so many times in my 21 plus career.  I'll start with the idea about values, because I did some work right at the start of the pandemic doing Brene Brown's Dare to Lead course.  It was facilitated by an organisation here in Melbourne. I was very fortunate to be part of that and what that course did helped me narrow down those values because being, you know, Italian we've got lots of values around respect and kindness and all of these things. Still, it all felt very wishy washy and I didn't really know how to articulate what that meant in the context of work, family wise, sure.  But work was a really different story.  

And so I did this course, and I walked away knowing absolutely what my 3 core values are and how I want to live my life personally and professionally.  They are courage, kindness and integrity. And what I've done is create spaces for myself through the work I do with others.  All through the work that I do through my consultancy, Learning to Lead in Early Childhood, I've made sure that whoever I'm working with aligns with those values in some way.  And what I hope is that when I work with people those values are loud and clear and it's been great to have feedback actually from a few people who have who have said that, you know, those are the words that they would use to describe me.  That is the way that I work with others.  And so when I think about that in connection with my professional identity, I think for a long time, my professional identity was very caught up in the places I was working with or the organisations I was working within. I adopted the identity of those groups.  

But having done that course and then spent a lot of time reflecting during COVID, I had a period of burnout. I kind of questioned who I was and what the purpose of life was.  And asked do I keep working in the sector? And I needed that to happen because what it did was spit me out the other end. As a professional doing the work that I do, my identity is solely focused on ensuring that children are, first and foremost, in everything that we do.  They're first and foremost in our advocacy and system designs.  I also work as a lecturer, and when I'm speaking to pre-service teachers, children are at the forefront.  And so my professional identity almost steps away from myself and becomes this other thing: children. It is children, and it's the whole purpose of why we do what we do. When I come to this space through my values and through that, priority, that's what guides my work, and that's why I do all the different things that I do and why I wear all the hats that I do. Because I truly believe in the impact we can have as a sector.  

0:17:05Speaker 1 That's that's amazing.  Courage, kindness and integrity almost set your compass, your true north.  And I, love that.  I've just been reading a finance book by Tony Robbins.  He interviewed some of the amazing business billionaires and investors worldwide and asked what made their business successful.  Each time, not one of them did not say it is the culture of the organisation.  And what is a culture made from? A culture is made from those key values, so that is it's great, and it is always a journey to find out who you are as a professional. So building strong relationships is essential in any field.  Even these investment brokers.

OK.  So, how did you shift? How did you come to focus on the importance of the words you use, ‘kindness’ and ‘meaningful connections’ within teams of educators? Because that's quite a different word than many other people use in their leadership space.  

0:18:20Speaker 2 Yes.  That's a conversation I have a lot about why I choose the word kindness. I am not worried about the softness of that word. I actually see it very differently. I see kindness as a strength.  And I see kindness as something that is actually very difficult to do at work, particularly when you're in a leadership position. And I mean, the story of how I came to kindness doesn't paint me in the best light, but I do share it because I think it helps others reflect and think about their own work as well.  It was during my time as centre director it was my first role as a Centre director.  I had an amazing team. When I look back now, you know, they were absolutely fantastic and had all been there a very long time.  My approach to leadership was very technical.  t was very theoretical.  It was very much I need you do this and therefore I am implementing this and I am not flexible and there is no wiggle room and no, you won't argue back with me.  What I say goes.  

It was very much that. You know, I am the boss. This is what it will be and so I made a lot of really bad decisions, and I probably upset a lot of people.  I still have relationships with a lot of the people I worked with.  So, I don't think it wasn't good, but looking back, that was a very defining moment for my leadership where I stepped into my next leadership role.  I mean, I can't be that person.  t didn't feel right for me anyway. That wasn't my natural persona.   I was putting on this act of wanting to be the leader and the saviour of this organisation.  So when I moved into my next role.  I went in knowing that there were some challenges that I was going to face, it was a very unique setting, but I knew that I had to  just own who I was and be the person that I wanted to be. And so, you know, we muddled through it.  It was a good probably 6 months before we found our groove as a big with a big team. It's about 50 educators.  That’s big. When I started to think about Brene Brown's work and I was doing that work with the data lead course, I started reading up on Sonya MacDonald, who was an amazing businesswoman from Queensland in Australia and I was looking at Doctor Paige Williams's work around anti fragility in leadership and when I. took all of this stiff and I kind of mixed it up in my mind; I went actually the word kindness really encapsulates that for me. So I started to take this kind of leadership approach, which is, you know, I talk about it in my training.  

This is not to be confused with niceness because niceness allows seven people to have the same day off because they all desperately need it.  But actually, the kind leader negotiates and says, well, you know, you've got an appointment.  That's obviously a very different scenario to this person who needs a day. Let us find a day where you can have it, you know, the kind leader steps into a space of going: I can hear you, and I understand, but we need to make sure everybody's on the same page. So once I've established that, I realised that that approach worked.  We had an amazing team right up until COVID hit, and obviously, that really changed the way everything worked.  but you know, we had this incredible morale.  We had this incredible commitment from the team for the work they were doing.  

And the interactions they were having with children and we actually saw that a lot of those challenges we were having with children started to flow away because we as a team were working a lot more functionally, so I've carried that service in my heart as I've moved forward. I've continued to develop this idea of kindness and think about what this looks like as an early childhood leader, and you know, that idea of relational capacity, that idea of building relationships with people and stepping into a space.  

With kindness, that is what continues to guide my thinking around leadership and the way I interact with other people. 

 0:22:18Speaker 1 That's a wonderful explanation, and I like, and I hope our listeners heard that distinction between nice and kind. In kind, I think that's beautiful.  Now you're very enthusiastically communicating the very positive aspects of our early childhood sector, which I wouldn't say is everybody's.  So, what do you believe sets our sector apart, and do you know how and why do you communicate so passionately about it?  

0:22:55Speaker 2 I love this sector for so many reasons, but I love it because, like I said at the start, it is multifaceted. There is an opportunity for everyone that I don’t think exists in other places.   I don't know. I've never worked in anything other than early childhood, so maybe there is.  but when I look at our sector, and I go, you know, you can work directly with children, you can work in pedagogy roles.  You can be the leader of a service.  You can be an area manager. Operations manager.  There are all these different things you can do, and that's just with services. I also view early childhood as looking at, you know, early childhood intervention and inclusion support services that are available. 

And I'm sure there's many other, you know, even in family violence and social work and all those sorts of spaces. These are all early childhood people, regardless of their qualifications.  So when I'm talking about the work that we do, I don't just talk about those people that are, you know, on the ground with the children every day.  Absolutely, They're as valuable as everybody else.  But my passion comes from the fact that if your strength is not necessarily working directly with children, but your strength is strategic planning, there is an operations role for you.  If your strength is not in the budget, which mine certainly is not, don't give me a budget.  If it's not budget, but it's, you know, creating beautiful play spaces. There's a job for you.There is something for everybody.  And I think when as a sector, we start to see these individual strengths of people and we start to apply that relational lens, that’s when we're going to start to see this beautiful shift into, you know, less turnover, you know, more people staying past five years would be amazing.  

But I think that's what needs to happen.  We need to find our passion in our strengths and then find positions, organisations, and places that will support us to do that work.  Rather than trying to fit us in a box that we may not quite fit. 

 0:25:00Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to hear you're talking about this because people do have a very specific idea of what early childhood is, and you've offered a variety of incredible roles that people can fill. So, in your experience, what are some common misconceptions people have?  About early childhood and you know, how do you and we work to dispel those?  

0:25:26Speaker 2: An age-old question, right?  Because you know, we're just babysitting and we just play all day, and we don't have qualifications, and you know the.  List goes on and on. I think we need to come together to work to dispel this.  This, for me, has been something I've been thinking about for quite some time.   I volunteered as the chair of my son's previous kindergarten, a stand-alone kindergarten with a single room.  But my work has always been in long daycare, so I'm very much a long daycare advocate for the benefits that that can bring to children and families.  But I've also learned much about the standalone Kinder World and what that can do for children and families.  My thinking had always been around access and making sure that children have places to go for extended hours because families need to work, and sessional kinder didn't really support that. But now that I've been in both of these spaces and got to experience it, I'm almost dispelling these myths kind of as I go, that every place is special for someone.  And again, it comes back to that idea that not everyone's gonna fit in the kindergarten box because some people have to work.  Some people don't need long daycare.  And so that doesn't work for them.  We need the options. But what I found is that if you're the lone voice in trying to dispel these misconceptions, or these myths, or try to speak out and advocate.  The lone voice doesn't work.  And for a long time, it felt that way.   

I didn't really feel like I had people around me to help me with that voice kind of space.  But when you find your people and I because I wouldn't say I like to use word tribe.  But when we find your people in Early Childhood Australia advocating for children and access and inclusion, great.  Then we've got organisations like the social justice and early childhood group, where I sit on the foundation board, and we're advocating to ensure that every child, everywhere, every educator, everywhere, every family, everywhere has the most positive early childhood experience that they can possibly have.  

And you know, that's complex and complicated in different parts of the country and for different types of people. When you find your people, that's when the dispelling starts. And if we sit and we do this on our own, it's not gonna work.  We're speaking to a brick wall.  You need that collaborative approach.  To be able to lift the authority kind of that feels a bit uppity to say, but, you know, if you're, if you're just the lone wolf in it, no one's listening.  We need a collective. We need to come together.  So if there is something that you believe in, if you truly believe that long daycare is not just babysitting, find the people who are talking about it.  Find ECA, find the local group, join them and start that conversation on a much bigger level.  Because that's when we're also going to have impact.  I think it's very different to have a conversation, but then to actually start to move things politically, we need to come together as that collective. 

 0:28:30Speaker 1 That's incredible advice because yeah, as you say on our own, nobody will change anything.  And if ever I'm at a conference and describe, you know, when I was teaching secondary, I would go to a dinner party and people would say ohh wow, Lil, that's fantastic.  You know, what subjects do you teach?  What year level do you teach?  And if I said I was teaching Early childhood they were ohh.  shame.  oh that's so nice, you know… And it's just like the whole idea.  So I was thrilled on my very first trip to Reggio Emilia changed that so much where I embraced the professional that I am, and understood how important this area of development is.  The most critical time for children's development.  So, it's very, very important to dispel that.  And to raise the profession if more people are doing what they say, all boats are lifted on a rising tide.  So we want the tide to rise.  

 I really love the way you've explained that you've experienced some challenges.  Is there a challenge or a thing that you faced that you know you really had to work hard to overcome? And what was it, and what did it teach you? 

 0:29:44Speaker: Hmm.  I think other than that first kind of director role that I had, something that has significantly challenged me in my career was when I entered that period of burnout.  And I am very open about sharing that because I believe a lot of people are sitting in that space, teetering on the edge of burnout or being in that burnout.  So now I was pushing very hard. Obviously, during the pandemic, I was doing different kinds of work.  I realised that I couldn't keep going at the pace that I was going, and people who know me know that I am 1,000,000 miles an hour.  I love to do a lot of things, and if you look at my social media, I still do a lot of things. I haven't learned my lesson there, but I have slowed down a little bit, I promise.  What burnout taught me was that we need to stay true to our values, that if you are not in the right place, it's OK to leave, find something else that does bring you joy, and it could just be the type of work that you’re doing.

It could be the organisation you're working for.  There's lots of different problems, But if you're teetering on that edge of going, I want to leave the sector.   would encourage you not to, but to find a different way of engaging with the sector.  And that's what I did.   actually had to step away from working with services for a period of time so that it was more of that periphery role in the professional learning space.  It allowed me to take a step back, breathe almost, and look down on the sector from that kind of bird's eye view. Let's reevaluate for a second what's really happening.  Here are my values.  Where do I want to have impact?  And after a period of time, I was able to then reengage and come back in and I spent some time working at the absolutely beautiful Maroondah Occasional Care in Croydon.  Which, you know, it is home to children ages zero to five, you know, 20 just over 20 children in a room with 5-6 educators.  And it's just glorious all day, every day.  

And it was so reinvigorating and so joyful for me.  And I thought that's the lesson that I want people to come away with from my story: take that break to think. Re-evaluate in line with your values.  You've got to know those values, so maybe there's a little work you have to do, but get some work in line with those values and then re-enter with a different mindset, feeling a little bit more refreshed and also take things like annual leave like make sure that you're taking your leave and your entitlements because you know for me that was something that I didn't do and I was often very unwell.  Because I would push and push and push and push.  And you know, I come from a generation where it very much is you don't take your sick leave, you don't take your annual leave.  And if you've got 100 hours banked up, you know you're.  You're doing something right. But now I'm like, actually, if you're on more than zero, you're you're doing something wrong, cause you need those breaks.  Your body can't function.  Oh yeah, I think that that period of burnout is the most significant professional challenge I've had.  But I have come out of that with a brand new outlook on the sector and life in general. I hope that people hear my story and learn from that so that they don't have to experience what I went through because I actually don't want that for anybody.  

0:33:02Speaker 1 Yeah. No, it's, if you hit a wall, there's no joy in that. But it's good to hear you say that you needed a physical space and a psychological space; and an intellectual space, and possibly even a spiritual space to overcome and get through that challenge and thank you very much for your vulnerability in sharing that. We really appreciate that. Now Sarah obviously life is not completely wrapped into work.  Are there any personal hobbies or interests that contribute to your overall well-being?

  0:33:44Speaker 2 Yeah, absolutely.  I posted recently about the fact that we were taking a little mini vacation to Queensland for my son's birthday, and this is something that, post-burnout, I've been able to implement effectively with my family.  Things like day trips taking, you know, just taking a Wednesday off, a sneaky mid-week break.  To break up a bit of the monotony and change the scenery a little bit, that's probably been one of the most significant things that contributes to my well-being overall: having these many, many breaks on many vacations.  But I also love to crochet, be creative in that space, and read. And I've, you know, had to rethink what reading looks like.  And I do love a good audiobook now, especially when I'm driving so much for work and things like that.  So, making sure that we're still making time for those things without stressing ourselves out about it because I didn't crochet, for example, for a very long time because I thought, gosh, what a waste of time.  But now, you know, I'm crocheting while I'm waiting for the kettle to boil or I pick it up.  if I'm hopping on an aeroplane and waiting for the plane to take off.  o, you know, I've just built these little joyful moment into my day rather than going ohh, I need to spend an hour doing something for me or I'm gonna slip back into burnout but cause actually, that's not what contributes to burnout and that's not real self-care.  Real self-care is incorporating this and making it more systematic and strategic. So yeah, those are kind of the few things that I do.  

0:35:20Speaker 1 I love that.  Yeah, I am.  When I was teaching full time, we know that as early childhood educators, there was no space between you and children. You know, if you're in a prep class and you want to walk outside for one second to say hello to someone, you can, but not in the early childhood space. They're on top of you all the time.  And I used to think to myself.  You need a little break every hour.  Well, every day, every week, every month and every year. Eeven if in that hour you would say and we're very fortunate to have another companion working with us in early childhood classrooms to say, ‘you know what, I'm just gonna go and wash these paint brushes by the sink, ‘Would you hold the fort for 5 minutes’.  Because in that 5 minutes you wouldn't have to respond to anything else, so that's the minute in the hour. So yeah, very, very important that having that little bit of time off.  The other thing, when you talk about audible books, I am so thrilled I discovered audible books.   have read probably 50 books a year I would never have read “read” in inverted commas obviously.  And my car is called Honeybee and she's become the university. The Honeybee University.  Because I listen to things all the time. I'm with you on both of those things.  Now, Sarah Louise,   is there a message?  I'm gonna ask you two questions.  The one is a message.  One is advice. Is there a message you would like to convey to everyone who's involved or aspiring to enter this field?  

0:36:55Speaker 2: There is the message.  From the outside, the sector might look a little bit broken.  We're a little bit kind of roughed up.  We took a hard knock during COVID. We've continued to take some Hard Knocks.  And that's kind of that's yes, OK, it is happening, but there is still a heart in this sector, and I think anyone who's thinking, you know, is early childhood for me.  f it's in your heart.  If you're already thinking about it, you are the one that's going to bring that.  You are the one who will help relaunch that spark that people, unfortunately, got knocked out of during a really difficult time.  And we welcome you.

We want you here.  We we need people like that to be entering this sector because children are worth it.  And, you know, as educators, we need those support systems around us.  So if you're thinking about it, if you're partway through your studies, and you're worried, it's not for you if there's already something in your heart.   It is for you.  This is it. 

 0:38:02 Speaker 1: That is a sensational message. I really thank you for that.  

Now, what advice do you have for people who want to join this sector?  

0:38:13Speaker 2: I think I've got two bits of advice.   I think the first one is spending the time thinking about your values and really starting to understand who you are as a human 1st and the type of things that you, you know, the way you work and what you like to do and all those sorts of things.   I think you need to do that work first.  

The other piece is to find a mentor and I can talk about this till I am blue in the face. Turning a mentor or a coach or someone to talk to is so important and I don't mean someone that you have to pay for.  That can be one avenue if that's the only avenue you have, but you know, going to, you know, your room leader and just saying, hey, can we have a coffee sometime and just talk about the sector or coming along? 

Through an ECA meeting find someone that you can debrief with someone that you can critically reflect with, so it needs to be someone where there's kind of an equal level of power you don't want anyone to overpower in that relationship, but, and that's why I say not a paid relationship, because that equates to immediate power whether we mean to or not. But when we're thinking about who we are and what we want to do, I think having a relationship with someone, even just one person, can make such a difference to the longevity of your experience in early childhood,  cause it can be very lonely if you feel like you're alone. There's no one kind of around for you to have those more robust conversations.  

Maybe you're in a really great service where everybody's like that, and I'm so grateful that you're in that position.  But if you're not reaching outward and starting to network, find those people, and establish a mentor or coach relationship, that's the piece of advice. It does take work.  It does take courage. It takes a bit of vulnerability, as you have used that word before. But the payoff in the long term, I think, is just so sensational that, you know, I can't give any other kind of advice.  

0:40:20Speaker 1 Well, that's amazing for someone who's a beautiful mentor anyway, to recommend finding mentors.  And yeah, I'm the same.   I have so benefited from beautiful people who've shared with me and cleared my path a lot of the time and just been incredible supporters.  So yeah, I fully agree that that advice is marvellous.  

Now, I'd like to ask interviewees what is a quote that they love is there a quote that you would want to leave with us?  

0:40:55Speaker 2 My absolute favourite quote, and one that I often return to, is by Maya Angelou, who said, ‘Do the best that you can until you know better.  Then when you know better, do better. And if I think back to my entire career, that's what I've done when I've known better I 've done better.  and you know I keep that in my heart.  And I had that on my phone with me a lot of the time.  That's what kind of guides me as I go.  

0:41:21Speaker 1 Yeah, and Maya Angelou would know, wouldn't she?  Civil rights leader, poet, survivor of domestic violence, incredible writer. Sadly departed, but beautiful advice for us to to use and to help us put one foot in front of the other every day.  Sarah Louise, thank you so much for your wisdom, for your time and we send you out to continue your path of courage and kindness and integrity.  And I hope that at some stage in the future we'll be back exactly on this podcast talking about something else. 

 0:42:04Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, Lili-Ann; this has been absolutely fantastic.  

0:42:08Speaker 1: Well, it's been an absolute joy Sarah Louise.  Now, I'm sure having heard all this, there will be a lot of people out there who want to reach you, who want to know how to get hold of you, how to talk to you.  So how would they get in touch with you? 

 0:42:24Speaker 2: The easiest way to get in touch with me would be either through my Facebook page,Llearning to Lead in Early Childhood, or through my LinkedIn, which is just Sarah Louise Gandolfo, and I absolutely welcome messages in my inbox.  There is no expectation of booking things and paying for things.   I want to talk to people because I believe so much in this sector. I hope to hear from people and support the amazing people coming through.  

0:42:50Speaker 1 Alright, so now you know how to get hold of Sarah Louise Gandolfo and have a marvellous week, everybody. This is all about the early years. Go out there and do what Sarah says. Bring your heart and let's make things happen.  

0:43:07Speaker 1 Next week, we're speaking to Rose Molyneux, a highly esteemed educator, on the topic of Nature as Teacher and Embracing Outdoor Education. Come along and listen to Ros as she talks about the incredible nature space that she has created on her family farm. 

Goodbye, everyone, and have a fabulous week.