Translation: New Revised Standard V’n updated ed. (NRSVue)
3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How does it feel that God knows your inmost parts?
Additional texts:
1 Samuel 3:1-20
1 Corinthians 6:12-20
John 1:43-51
Translation: New Revised Standard V’n updated ed. (NRSVue)
3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How does it feel that God knows your inmost parts?
Additional texts:
1 Samuel 3:1-20
1 Corinthians 6:12-20
John 1:43-51
00:02.14
Kevin Shock
I'm ready to tend. Are you Nathan you didn't know that was coming.
00:06.92
nathanpile
Ah, he he I didn't know that one was coming and he all. He also just said right before I hit record I'm really mellow because of this drink I'm having it's like the same is like the same to is like the same like I'm so mellow and.
00:16.61
Kevin Shock
Um, that's not exactly what I said I.
00:25.33
nathanpile
And then I hit record and he says I'm ready to tend.
00:27.56
Kevin Shock
Ah, like guys you're going to friends I'm drinking something that's completely legal and has nothing in a you know like yeah, no it just yeah, never mind it Nathan's making it sound like I'm drinking some? ah. Illegal elixir or something anyway, I'm just I'm really excited to be here today but I'm also mellow to be here today Nathan so I'm glad that we're together and I'm glad that everyone's listening to us be weird with each other anyway.
00:45.32
nathanpile
Ah.
00:55.86
nathanpile
Me too I am too I am I'm I'm glad we're together.
01:02.10
Kevin Shock
Today. Nathan and I are going to be talking about ah among other things. Perhaps ah psalm 100 psalm one thirty nine versus 1 through 6 and 13 through eighteen the translation we're using is the new revised standard version updated edition.
01:09.48
nathanpile
Me.
01:19.29
Kevin Shock
Again, that's on that can be found on biblegateway.com or the biblegateway app where there are lots of different translations available. Um, but you can follow along with whatever bible you have nearby and the 3 questions for today. What word phrase or image strikes you in this text toward what is god calling you in this text and maybe you do need to be mellow for this last one Nathan how does it feel that god knows your inmost part. That is related directly to the to the verse. So.
01:50.74
nathanpile
Ah, yeah, yeah, that I might yeah disclaimer about who we are. We are men married to women in financially stable households white in our late 40 s college and seminary educated. We work in the lutheran church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania all of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. But none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole communities. Compiled interpretation for life with god and one another so we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as you engage scripture scripture psalm one thirty nine. verses 1 through 6 and 13 through 18 o lord you have searched me and known me you know when I sit down and when I rise up you discern my thoughts from afar you search out my path. And my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways even before a word is on my tongue o lord you know it completely you hem me in behind and before and lay your hand upon me.
03:21.18
nathanpile
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is so high that I cannot attain it for it. Was you who formed my inward parts you knit me together in my mother's womb I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful. Are your works and I know very well that I know very well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was being made in secret intricately woven in the depths of the earth your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed how weighty to me are your thoughts o god how vast is the sum of them I try to count them. They are more than the sand I come to the end I am still. With you. If you are meeting with your group you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own Kevin what word phrase or image strikes you in this text.
04:38.41
Kevin Shock
It's an image for me today. Um, it is the intricately woven in the depths of the earth um, as you were reading that I just you know we like we live in a. We live in an age where we know a lot about science and we know just for for lack of a better term. We know how babies are made. Ah, we know how people form in the womb. Um. You know all that all this kind of stuff and and there's something about science that as much as I appreciate science. Um, when you're reading poetry. There's something that you know science can kind of scientific language can sterilize a ah ah concept and. This notion of I just love the way that this image makes me feel tied to creation and that there is um, you know there are echoes of it for for me. There are echoes of the.
05:36.79
nathanpile
M.
05:48.25
Kevin Shock
The other biblical verse. Um, ah you know you you are from dust and to dust you shall return. Ah, there's the this just this idea of God forming a body a being. Um.
06:08.90
Kevin Shock
Including both body and soul. Um I you know I don't know that that the Hebrew concept is is nephesh being um that kind of unifies all of the things that we separate out like body mind and spirit. Ah. Forming a being in the depths of the earth pulling pulling that being out of the ground. Um it just the way that it makes me feel like I'm tied to the earth creation but also tied to god who exists. Above and around and in all of this stuff as well is ah is a moving image for me.
06:53.73
Kevin Shock
It does talk about. You know you knit me together in my mother's womb that line is in there too but something about that intricately woven in the depths of the earth just really spoke to me today.
06:56.12
nathanpile
Yeah, ah.
07:06.51
nathanpile
Well and I um I like as you continue to paint what the the psalmist here is writing as they paint a picture with their words. Ah, but that idea of connecting us to. The the beauty the richness of creation and the creator I Just appreciate how you pull that I have pulled all that of that together here because I I agree with you as a ah, a conservation biologist. Ah. When we talk about science It can It can feel very disconnected from the beauty that is creation which um and so I appreciate you picking up on those those words that that inspire you here.
07:48.50
Kevin Shock
M.
08:02.10
nathanpile
Um, by the psalmists writing and the and technical leave and the translator's writing I guess because they've English words to express the Hebrew Richness of the text um did you by chance look at any of the.
08:07.89
Kevin Shock
Um.
08:18.82
nathanpile
Ah, Hebrew scholarly stuff sometimes you do look at that before you like the other.
08:26.67
Kevin Shock
You know what? I I didn't for this one but I kind of wish that I would have at this point there there are very in in this version. The new revised standard version updated addition there. There are very few footnotes. Um, at least compared to some others. But yeah.
08:41.42
nathanpile
Yeah, because sometimes the reason I ask that everybody is is sometimes the some of the different translations that Kevin picks are really but they do a really beautiful job of um, picking that artist kind of artistic words.
08:43.86
Kevin Shock
Um.
08:59.57
nathanpile
To help. Um, you know, kind of explain or extrapolate extrapolate what was written here a little bit differently than we would um that the ah n rsv does a nice job too it' but sometimes it's just a little bit more artistic so I just was curious because I haven't I I have 2
09:13.56
Kevin Shock
Um.
09:18.89
nathanpile
2 of those books on my shelf behind me but I didn't grab it either. So um.
09:22.59
Kevin Shock
Well, um, what I did do is. It's easy in on biblegateway.com to ah flip to a different version and I know one that has a lot of notes with it is the the net bible the new english translation so I looked at that and it says it does have a note for. That this section here. It says the phrase depths of the earth may be metaphorical that is euphemistic or it may reflect a pre-scientific belief about the origins of the embryo deep beneath the earth's surface and then it also says that job. Chapter 1 verse 21 also closely associates the mother's womb with the earth. So anyway, that's yeah, but I would be I would be curious, especially sometimes not often, but sometimes we use the um.
10:06.10
nathanpile
My real.
10:15.49
Kevin Shock
Robert Alter translation of the yeah of hebrew scripture and I would be curious to see what he has to say about that well and even how he translates it honestly. But yeah.
10:16.19
nathanpile
And that was the one I was thinking of specifically. Yeah.
10:26.88
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah, more so I was not so much the notes I just was wondering what words he might have used to kind of paint that picture a little bit more vividly here. So but yeah, thanks.
10:37.85
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, but part of the part of the reason I chose this translation is because it does translate um in familiar language to a lot of people another verse here and that's verse 14
10:54.61
Kevin Shock
Ah, where it says I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Um, That's ah, that's a phrase that ah a verse that I've heard a lot in our traditions circles. Our denominational circles. Um. And I think I I could be wrong. But I think um, extraordinary lutheran ministries which is a um and an organization that works for equality in ordination and church service when it comes to. Ah, the Lg B D Q I A plus community. Um I'm pretty sure that I've seen this verse on their like some of their publicity and in some of their materials things like that. So yeah that I am fearfully and wonderfully made and and and I just.
11:36.00
nathanpile
Um.
11:49.10
Kevin Shock
I like that I I read that particular verse and some other translations. Um, and it was nice but it didn't quite say it in the exact same way. Um, and I I like that translation of that particular verse. So yeah. What about you? Nathan what? what word phrase or image strikes you.
12:05.55
nathanpile
Nice. Well thanks I Got the word I got um um, caught on was hem. Um, and so that idea that that God Hems us hemed me in.
12:13.79
Kevin Shock
E.
12:23.42
nathanpile
Behind him before lay lay your hand upon me that idea of ah of in my head It took me this time reading it through took me in ah like a very snuggled in bed or a snuggled in sleeping bag.
12:41.45
Kevin Shock
And.
12:43.26
nathanpile
God's tucked me all in nice and tight and and I'm nice and warm on this Cold. It's a cold day here at Camp and so that that idea of being all tucked in being both being protected by that which is around me that idea of. Being hemmed in but then also that laying on of a hand kind of a presence I'm I'm here with you in the midst of of this that was a comfortable, um, comfortable feeling reading that here this this? um.
13:19.58
Kevin Shock
E.
13:20.50
nathanpile
This time through that that kind of again, maybe the artistry of this psalm of of god being with us knowing us you know providing for us. But that. First 5 there for me was the the piece that kind of got my mind kind of dancing and thinking about the um the god's connection to us. So.
13:54.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah I'm I'm glad you ah I'm glad that's the 1 you you picked out because um I heard the when you were reading it. You know we've talked about this before I sometimes. The other of us doesn't follow along as 1 person reads it so we're just listening to the text instead of reading it along. Um and I heard I heard you say ah you lay your hand upon me or lay your hand upon me. Um, and that can take a variety of connotations. Ah.
14:11.24
nathanpile
Right now.
14:26.76
Kevin Shock
You know, ah laying the laying a hand on someone. Well first of all, that's a that's a euphemism for like hitting someone which I don't I know it I know it doesn't mean that here. Um, but but laying a hand on someone can be a like can be a sign of correction.
14:32.16
nathanpile
Sure sure.
14:44.53
Kevin Shock
Guidance or you know something like that but coupled with the phrase that you mentioned you hemmed me in behind and before and lay your hand upon me, it makes it and and your description of it made it feel to me like a much more gentle mothering comforting nurturing kind of.
14:59.79
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah.
15:04.50
Kevin Shock
Ah action. So yeah I Yeah I appreciate your being ah kind of you know wrapped up in a bundle like a baby you know I mean that was that was the that was the image I got my head as you were talking. Yeah.
15:18.16
nathanpile
You're right it? What right? No yeah when when when Rachel was a little baby I used to swaddle her and so it was to make the blankets so tight that her arms and her legs couldn't move around and and and just and like.
15:22.59
Kevin Shock
Ah, but.
15:28.80
Kevin Shock
M.
15:36.00
nathanpile
Wake her up because that would be something that would happen for her is that she would like her own jolting of her body would kind of wake her up because her arms would hit her face or so that idea of being hemmed in. So so snuggled in that she couldn't even couldn't even move but yet also know that that we were present.
15:44.42
Kevin Shock
Um, again.
15:54.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.
15:55.15
nathanpile
Um, you know that there's something about that touch that just helps to bring the calm. So yeah.
16:02.97
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah I don't think so let's look at it a second time from psalm one thirty Nine oh lord you have searched me and known me.
16:03.98
nathanpile
Yeah, anything else for you? new.
16:19.87
Kevin Shock
You know when I sit down and when I rise up you discern my thoughts from far away you search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways even before a word is on my tongue o lord you know it completely. You hemmed me in behind and before. And lay your hand upon me such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is so high that I cannot attain it for it. Was you who formed my inward parts you knit me together in my mother's womb I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made wonderful. Are your works. That I know very well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was being made in secret intricately woven in the depths of the earth your eyes beheld my unformed substance in your book were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed. How weighty to me are your thoughts o god how vast is the sum of them I try to count them. They are more than the sand I come to the end I am still with you Nathan toward what is god calling you in this text.
17:36.18
nathanpile
Listening to your read it that time the word that came to me was it was off of the word from praise. But the word that popped into my head was a sense of gratitude of being given um, all of these.
17:46.26
Kevin Shock
M.
17:52.87
nathanpile
That this is the relationship that I have with God The creator God The Redeemer God The forgiver that that that God would know me would worry about my inward Parts. You know that all of this. Would be a part of our relationship and so the as as you were reading the thing that kind of came pouring over me was this sense of of gratitude and and it was the the verse 14 there where where it said I praise you but but um. For me that that praise is about Gratitude. It was about um who God has made me to be and that God has taken enough time to know me and that I am valuable enough to God. For God to to all of these pieces knit me together knows the number of my days. Um, you know and and has been a part of ah that God is a part of what my thoughts are of of the day. Um, and what they're going to be and and what the words are they're going to come out of my mouth that God knows all of that is is pretty amazing. Um, and causes me to feel blessed and also.
19:18.15
Kevin Shock
M.
19:27.35
nathanpile
Is a reminder to me of how how much I take all of that for granted and so that gratitude you know that that hearing these words brings a part of that gratitude because there are there are definitely times that I am not writing or thinking these.
19:31.52
Kevin Shock
M.
19:45.71
nathanpile
These words that the psalmist is sharing here. Um that I'm not as as I'm definite Definitely just not as tuned in to that This is who God is and is a part of my life. Um, and so a gratitude for that that. We have a God that is that tuned into us even though at times I'm not that tuned into God Um, so a deep appreciation for that I think is what I feel called toward art to to into in this in these words.
20:04.76
Kevin Shock
Oh.
20:12.49
Kevin Shock
Um.
20:14.83
Kevin Shock
M.
20:23.14
nathanpile
A gratitude for who I am and who God has made me to be but but also that God has accepted and valued me in these very special ways. So.
20:34.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah huh.
20:40.33
nathanpile
How about you my friend what towards what is God calling you in these words.
20:47.69
Kevin Shock
Well I Boy I don't think my answer is going to be as good as yours I I really? Ah I appreciate that. Ah I appreciate that gratitude is ah is where you where you ended up there. Um, for me I I was thinking About. Um I think security I There's um I or I guess I guess to answer the question properly ah to to um, allow myself a sense of security in God's presence. Ah, where my mind went thinking about this question in our last episode. Our final question was how do you something along lines of how do you deal with not knowing something about God and and I think um.
21:35.52
nathanpile
E.
21:39.68
Kevin Shock
I think that question could also apply to this reading as it did last week's reading. Um, but I ah, if I'm reading if I'm thinking about that question in regards to this bible verse this passage. Um. My answer is how do I deal with it I'm fine with it. But I mean there's yeah, there's a notion here of ah I definitely don't know everything about god and I definitely don't know everything god knows um and. And not only do I not know it. But it's so it's so far above me and beyond me that I never will know it? Um, but this is the god who you know knits me in the depths of the earth and this is the god who swaddles me and and and and holds me and nurtures me.
22:17.33
nathanpile
And.
22:36.30
Kevin Shock
And so why would I need to know everything I mean that's kind of that's the feeling that I get I I think that? Yeah, so what? what? I'm what I'm being called to is to be to be okay with mystery and the unknown which ah I think in general.
22:37.46
nathanpile
He.
22:53.29
Kevin Shock
Is a really helpful way to approach a life of faith. But um, but specifically related to this reading. That's what I'm really feeling. Yeah.
23:04.71
nathanpile
Well and and your comment there at the end of of um, approaching having that attitude of approaching.
23:21.44
nathanpile
A life of faith I do think being able to recognize that there's there's mystery and that we can't know it all. Um, that's very different than our culture. Um.
23:35.94
Kevin Shock
You.
23:40.79
nathanpile
Very different in that um, being able to say um, it's okay to that that there's part of this that we don't know if we don't understand that. Um.
23:59.30
nathanpile
That's a little countercultural for us. But I do think being able to embrace the gray the mystery the you know when I was when I was in when I graduated from college and was trying to sort out what I was going to do with my life. Ah I talked a lot about being in the wilderness of.
24:00.17
Kevin Shock
E.
24:18.87
nathanpile
You know, wandering around in the wilderness like moses and the israelites for 40 years now. It wasn't forty years but it was several years of my life that I was in that discernment process. Um, kind of a thing. Ah and I can remember that it kind of irked me that I didn't know. Um.
24:26.50
Kevin Shock
But yeah.
24:37.97
nathanpile
That it wasn't clear because it was. There's a sense I think at times that we're supposed to have it all put together. We're all supposed to know exactly where what was next I think over time I have grown to realize that never like I'm I'm still in a bit of in the wilderness kind of wandering.
24:39.31
Kevin Shock
3
24:57.72
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, sure.
24:57.89
nathanpile
Ah, and sorting out and so there's I've kind of had to come to peace with that and and the piece of that. Also I as you said I agree with that that it that.
25:15.39
nathanpile
The flexibility Maybe that you have to allow yourself. Um, the mystery that is a part of life and the world. Um, everything in black and white I think robs some of the wonder and the awe of what God has put into creation for us. If Everything is black and white and so that that gray area that that fogginess that being in the wilderness. There's something special about that I think ah the the more I as I continue to live in it that uncomfortableness of it.
25:35.61
Kevin Shock
Um E we hear.
25:54.62
nathanpile
Is also a comfort. So so I appreciated your your thoughts with that.
26:00.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and I I mean I What you said that resonated with me is that there is. There's this constant sense of being in the unknown. Um I mean there there are there are times in life when ah ah.
26:09.90
nathanpile
Now.
26:19.47
Kevin Shock
There? Well okay to something else just came to my mind 2 things I'd like to say there are times in life where we are definitely the situation. Our life seems to be less secure or less certain than other times in life and then there are also times in life that. Perhaps unrelated to outward factors and Forces. We deal with uncertainty better or worse. Ah, and I you know I think um.
26:51.59
nathanpile
Um.
26:57.38
Kevin Shock
I don't know something something that made me think about this is that there are well this is a personal example and I I won't give any like like specific example, but you know I've been Lisa and I have been together for more than you know going on 11 years now
27:08.61
nathanpile
Are.
27:16.99
Kevin Shock
And we've been married for eight and a half um so I'm ah I'm starting to gain at least some knowledge of like how I am as ah, a husband and how I am in my relationship with someone else who shares a house and and. Finances and all this other stuff with me ah and more than that too. But you know like the practical stuff. Um, there are times whenever Lisa will say something to me that is that you know indicates some uncertainty about you know, a career or a job or. Or our you know our dog situation or something like that where I just my initial reaction is to just freak out like you know like don't don't change anything on me like don't you yeah I mean that's that's where my mind immediately goes. Um.
28:08.31
nathanpile
Um, ah.
28:14.19
Kevin Shock
And and I feel bad about that because it's usually just it's just like a gut reaction and then once I let it settle for a little bit I'm like oh ah, this isn't going to be such a big deal you know or like this this uncertainty isn't such a huge thing like life's going to continue and there might be some changes but you know.
28:24.62
nathanpile
6
28:34.70
Kevin Shock
That we're going to deal with it. How we do, You know how we deal with everything. Um, but the times when I'm much better at it is when I see that she's freaking out about uncertainty or a possible change Or. Or you know or trying or wrestling with the what Ifs of Life. Ah, and in that those situations I am much better at becoming the comforting. Um, we're you know we're going to deal with this. We're going to work it through together. It's just you know it will. Like we'll take it as it comes and um and we will figure things out and that's that's kind of where I am you know it? Yeah so I like that.
29:22.38
Kevin Shock
Ah, just the whole the whole thing that you were talking about. You know the the wandering through the desert and the uncertainty of life and um, it just made me reflect on how I can be really bad at dealing with that and how I can be really good at dealing with that and reading this scripture makes me feel. Like why would I ever be bad at it because this is the this is the reality of God God's presence with me and with all of us that uncertainty is there and there is so much about our lives in the universe that we don't know. But.
29:49.88
nathanpile
He.
30:00.93
Kevin Shock
God numbers all our days God takes you know God holds us tightly? um God is there to guide us and to you know and to and to shape us. Ah you know like there's nothing to worry about not that we don't worry.
30:15.30
nathanpile
Now now.
30:19.30
Kevin Shock
But there's there's nothing. There's nothing that we are going to encounter that God either hasn't already encountered or doesn't know about or doesn't know what we need in that situation. So yeah.
30:37.50
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, thank you? Okay are.
30:38.80
nathanpile
All right? Let's do this a third time I don't know why I went here this is where I need to be there. We go here's the reading. Oh Lord you have searched me and known me you know when I sit down and when I rise up. You discern my thoughts from far away you search out my path and my lying down and are acquainted with all my ways even before a word is on my tongue o lord you know it completely you hem me in behind and before and you lay your hand upon me.
31:02.11
Kevin Shock
That can be.
31:12.64
Kevin Shock
Um, see it.
31:16.76
nathanpile
Such knowledge is too wonderful for me. It is so high that I cannot attain it for it. Was you who formed my inward parts you knit me together in my mother's womb I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made wonderful. Are your works. And I know very that I know very well. My frame was not hidden from you when I was being made in secret intricately woven in the depths of the earth your eyes beheld my unformed substance in your book. Were written all the days that were formed for me when none of them as yet existed how weighty to me are your thoughts o god how vast is the sum of them I try to count them. They are more than the sand I come to the end. I am still with you Kevin how does it feel that god knows your inmost parts.
32:23.60
Kevin Shock
Nathan I'm here drinking my mellow drink like I'm good with it man I'm good with it. This is not this is not helping people to it. Um folks. It's just it's just it's just hotp water. It's not yet.
32:36.16
nathanpile
It's a hop water everybody. It's just hop water. Yeah, but he's just he's just high on the love of god.
32:40.21
Kevin Shock
And anything in it. Ah I'm just I'm I am I am and also I'm ah in a in a busy season I'm feeling. Good about my to do list for the first time like three days so so I'm just I'm just feeling good right now all all around. But um, yeah, no to expand that I mean I am good with it man but um to expand that out. Ah.
32:55.62
nathanpile
She first.
33:11.72
Kevin Shock
What I would like to say is that I you know there are there are well even we don't even read the whole psalm here this is like verses 1 through 6 and then 13 through 18 So there there are parts of the psalm that are missing again for what reason I'm not entirely sure. Um, this is. We we always pick readings that are ah appointed readings for Sundays in our tradition. So sometimes there are chunks missing for 1 reason or another um, but anyway I think that if you read certain parts of the psalm out of the context of the whole psalm. It can be kind of anxiety inducing. Um, you know that like the the thing about um before ah now I have to find it before a word where is that.
34:05.94
Kevin Shock
Oh verse 4 before a word is on my tongue. Oh lord do you know it completely. Well, you know like that thought by itself I'm not really I'm not too happy about that because there are words that end up on my tongue that um I'm sometimes I'm embarrassed that I've said after they come out of my mouth or.
34:21.91
nathanpile
Nice.
34:25.45
Kevin Shock
Or um, are there words that although are you know are not um in the context or not terrible words Perhaps um, are probably words that you know God would rather I don't use I don't I don't know, but but even even worse than that are the things that don't even come. From my tongue but words that I just think in my head that you know I you know words that I would like to say to people that I know it's better if I don't say it? Um, So I'm not you know I'm not like just reading that by itself I'm not a huge fan of God. Of God know my inmost parts but reading it in the context of the whole Psalm I am because I think that you know sometimes we act or speak in a certain way. That is maybe not our best selves. But I think that all of those things stem from some kind of hurt or Insecurity or trauma that we carry with us. And for God to know all of that stuff intimately gives me a lot of comfort and a lot of a lot of hope. Um, you know there there are things.
35:55.43
Kevin Shock
Well as we say in 1 of our um in one of our confession texts from our liturgy. Um the thoughts and words and deeds of which I am ashamed I'm not I'm not a fan that god knows those all the time. but um but god knows the things that bring me shame and god knows the shame that's been thrust upon me that I shouldn't have to deal with and that gives me a lot of comfort does that make sense.
36:30.29
nathanpile
It does probably some of that is because I too am torn a little bit about this text. Um and and you hit the the place for me that that um.
36:43.35
Kevin Shock
Um, okay.
36:49.13
nathanpile
We live in a and a very our our world and our culture um causes us to curate who we are a bit so social media would be a for instance.
37:03.64
Kevin Shock
Um, oh.
37:06.99
nathanpile
Of that I think in some ways now anybody that knows me knows that I'm not a big social media person. Ah um, but no, no I don't but I would say I curate it in other places.
37:14.19
Kevin Shock
Think yeah I was gonna say do your do you curate your life on social media because I think the answer that is no but um.
37:25.90
nathanpile
And and am worried about um the words that I use the image that I present. Um, and so even though I don't use social media I would still say that there are parts of my life that I curate for the world to see.
37:32.70
Kevin Shock
M.
37:44.80
nathanpile
And so to have all of that known. Um by by god where I don't get to erase it and and make it better. Um, you know, not that I would go and do it. But there's an uncomfortableness of being that exposed or the word that Brene Brown would say is vulnerable. Um, that someone knows me that was well so if it was one person that it's god that knows me again. It makes me feel a little a lot better about it actually.
38:09.99
Kevin Shock
E.
38:23.13
nathanpile
For the as as you were kind of sharing that there. There's a there's a part of that part of the one who creates to know me that well again, there's something makes me warm and fuzzy about that that that I'm that vulnerable with anyone else would. Make me feel exposed and um and so there's there's something about our world because god would want us to strive for being able to be vulnerable with others for others to know us deeply and meaningfully you talked about your. Relationship with your wife that would be 1 of those examples that you that we're to be working towards and living in that relationship. Um, so so there's a part of this passage that does make me feel uncomfortable in the world that I live in in that I don't like to be that vulnerable with.
39:01.53
Kevin Shock
E.
39:20.30
nathanpile
Um, about myself that that that there would be and yet at the same time. There's a piece that last piece of this verse as I read it kind of stuck out to me again as it did um the when you read it that I am still with you. So no matter.
39:36.86
Kevin Shock
M.
39:38.75
nathanpile
Like I don't get lost in all of the thoughts god doesn't get lost in all of the thoughts god still sees me for me and loves me for me hasn't walked away from me because I've blurted out ugly words out of my mouth or I've simply thought. Ugly words in the back of my mind that I've never shared with anyone else. God's never walked away from me god is still with me. So again, there's there's the there's this part of this passage that the the first 2 times I've reflected upon it.
40:02.80
Kevin Shock
E.
40:15.80
nathanpile
Has lots of warm fuzzies for me in and when I say warm fuzzies makes me feel good makes me makes me feel connected to the creator that has made me to know that I'm that intimately tied to the creator. But there's also something about the way the wording of your question and I'm not going to say that your question is is the problem.
40:25.99
Kevin Shock
Oh yeah.
40:34.50
nathanpile
But but the how does it make me feel that God knows my inmost parts. It doesn't make me feel good to know that any thing knows the ugly side of me the side that I I keep from others. Um, and so.
40:46.60
Kevin Shock
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:51.54
nathanpile
And it's and it's not that it's the ugly side of me. It's just that It's my sinful selfish side you know and so that part of it is is the part. Ah you know that's the that's the rub for me the uncomfortableness for me of this passage is that.
40:56.47
Kevin Shock
M.
41:09.77
nathanpile
No matter how hard I've tried to curate in my life. God still knows all of that though the comfort comes in in the those last verses in that last verse in verse eighteen of god hasn't walked away from me despite it. Me being completely vulnerable and god knowing all of this about me whether that is body shape. Um, you know yesterday Hannah um had me do a video quick for camp and I got done and and she sent me the video clip and I was kind of like oh man we should go redo that I don't like the way I look you know you know.
41:47.92
Kevin Shock
Ah, yeah, yeah.
41:48.48
nathanpile
We We didn't We didn't but like that part of us that that in our own Ma in our own minds curate ourselves so that we feel better about the image that we put out in the world and here is a passage Of. God knows all of us fully and completely from the very beginning knows the number of our days knows the words that we've not even yet formed and yet God Still so you know the the psalmist reminds us God still is with us. Um.
42:26.51
nathanpile
And that's powerful in in a world where where we have always been as human beings um belonging and acceptance is a part of of you know we have chemicals in our brain in our bodies that. When we have community that those those those chemicals are released and we're like oh it feels so good to be a part of this community feels so good to be accepted feels so good to belong. You know there's like 4 chemicals and 2 of them might would be considered selfish. Um. how how does um he uses that language. Um, ah now I'm just blanking on his name Simon Sinek talks about we have self too selfish chemicals and 2 unselfish chemicals and so the so 2 selfish chemicals are about me. Um.
43:12.31
Kevin Shock
And.
43:22.53
nathanpile
And and happen for me when when something happens good for me and the other two are about the community. Um, and and what the community when I when I'm when I belong and fit in those chemicals kind of go off and and so that's why we have this survival instinct in ourselves as human beings to survive.
43:29.91
Kevin Shock
Um.
43:41.97
nathanpile
Personally, but also to survive survive together and so there's a part of this passage that that makes me feel and realize both of those you know the the tendencies of both of those chemical pieces and in our own bodies that that struggle is going on that. That wanting to make sure that I myself am am strong and survive that I make it through you know so that I'm not vulnerable and yet at the same time recognizing that there's another side of me that wants to be to feel belong and and and accepted. And here is a passage that says you you belong in are accepted the the creator the the one who made you doesn't matter how you curate your life I Love you for who you are completely and fully and no matter what happens I'm. Still there at the end I'm still with you. So yeah, so that was ah my long. My long gambit to get there. But the the question makes me a little uncomfortable but in the the end it. It.
44:38.98
Kevin Shock
M.
44:58.50
nathanpile
I Need to know that I belong and am accepted and and God does that for us and this passage tells us how that kind of happens. So.
45:09.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah, just what you said right? there at the end. Oh by the way I enjoyed listening. Do you talk about this. So don't apologize for being long but um I I. It. It reminds me that in our tradition we talk about scripture interpreting scripture and that um the part of the work of scripture is that it. Um you know there are some. There are some passages that if you just look at those passages. Um.
45:37.17
Kevin Shock
For what they are by themselves out of context. It seems like there are parts of scripture that contradict other parts of scripture. Um, but when you look at scripture as a whole you see how the how the overarching themes tie everything together.
45:44.93
nathanpile
Um.
45:54.28
Kevin Shock
And so I think I think what you just said there is a good example that um yeah, if you and and what I said too in answer to this question if you read some of these verses by themselves. They're anxiety inducing. Um, but but yeah, where it ends up is. Brings us to a place of peace and um and that's evident the whole way throughout the psalm ah throughout this passage of the psalm. Ah, but yeah, but you have to read the whole thing in order for it to make sense and to and and to get the idea that God wants.
46:26.30
nathanpile
M.
46:31.68
Kevin Shock
Us to have about our relationship with God Yeah I I was I was curious. Um I just looked up on the internet. The I googled ah selfish chemicals because I knew take to the place. So yeah, it took me right to a? ah.
46:46.62
nathanpile
But.
46:51.50
Kevin Shock
An article about Simon Sinek in his latest book or I don't know if it's his latest book. But I know it's the one that was on your night table whenever we were at the youth event back in December. Um, yeah, um.
47:01.57
nathanpile
Um, yeah, yeah.
47:05.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and so the right the 2 selfish ones are endorphins and dopamine that mask pain and um and and help and and help us to get things done. Um and then serotonin and oxytocin.
47:09.81
nathanpile
No.
47:17.30
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah.
47:22.89
Kevin Shock
Are the 2 that are the self less chemicals and Serotonin is the one that that's released whenever we feel like we're loved or accepted or respected and oxytocin is the one that's released um as a result of like physical touch. So So those chemicals um. Strengthen our social bonds and create meaningful connection with others. Yeah, that's interesting I didn't I Yeah I bet.
47:48.12
nathanpile
Yeah, it's super like that chapter was super interesting to read to kind of think about how how it affects you know that that as human as as Homo sapiens as human Beings. Um. We have gotten to where we're at because of the way that we're chemically made. Yeah, we figured out how to survive more than any of our other you know Homo Erectus didn't like they were bigger and stronger but they didn't survive as well as Homo sapiens did you know? and so.
48:09.69
Kevin Shock
Right right? have? Yeah yeah.
48:24.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, ah, that's interesting.
48:25.80
nathanpile
There was a part of doing it together. Um, ah, both both individually and together like the the things that we ah are our characteristics as human beings um being able to survive individually and together. We've needed both of them throughout the 50000 years that homo sapiens have been around and we're going to need them for the next fifty thousand again um and and it comes down to these these you know these chemicals that are are part of how we've been made.
48:52.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, no well.
49:00.90
Kevin Shock
This this little exercise um makes me want to retract one of my earlier statements or at least speak to it again I think I said that science can sterilize the way the poetic way that.
49:15.64
nathanpile
Yeah, ah sure.
49:17.56
Kevin Shock
But ah, but here's an example of of science. Um, um, augmenting and ah and boosting kind of my appreciation for how how these things how scripture is written and how this how how poet there's.
49:26.87
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
49:33.12
Kevin Shock
To me. There's something poetic about learning about those chemicals I Guess as a way to say an easy way to say it? Yeah, ah yeah, well good. Um, yeah, so if you um I don't know what.
49:41.31
nathanpile
Ah, ah.
49:49.11
Kevin Shock
Whether it would release ah dopamine or ah serotonin or what but but if some of those chemical releases are um, caused by you ah thinking about scripture and reading it and ah being mellowed by it. Maybe um. There are some additional texts that you could use first samuel chapter 3 verses 1 through 20 is the account of the calling of Samuel when god god speaks to Samuel in the dead of night and ah it takes a couple of times for Samuel and um. And eli to figure out ah that it's actually god talking another one is first corinthians chapter 6 verses 12 through 20 that talks about ah glorifying god in your body and in the body of the church and John 44 through 51 is John's account of the calling of the first disciples which I think might might be my favorite account. Um, because first of all Nathaniel says can anything good. Come out of Nazareth but I don't know what Nathaniel had against.
50:51.19
nathanpile
E.
50:59.77
nathanpile
You up you up.
51:03.44
Kevin Shock
Against nazarenes. But um, but he quickly learns that something good can come out of Nazareth and his name is Jesus ah so um, yeah I've I've enjoyed talking with you as always Nathan and appreciate your um. Both your succinct and your lengthy ah reflections and ah and I can so I can speak for Nathan when I say that we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.
51:23.30
nathanpile
You as well. My friend you as well.
51:30.41
nathanpile
And peace.