Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)
3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How are the deeds of Christ followers examined today?
Additional texts:
Psalm 23
1 John 3:16-24
John 10:11-18
Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)
3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How are the deeds of Christ followers examined today?
Additional texts:
Psalm 23
1 John 3:16-24
John 10:11-18
00:00.60
nathanpile
Welcome back to tend a bible podcast this week we're going to be looking at acts the fourth chapter verses 5 through 12 and we'll be Kevin and I are going to be reading from the common english bible so you can. Ah, follow along with any bible that is close by or go to biblegateway.com or use the biblegateway app and follow along with the common english bible are 3 questions this week what word phrase or image strikes you in this text. Toward what is god calling you in this text and how are the deeds of Christ followers examined today whoo that is gonna be a good one Kevin now.
00:48.66
Kevin Shock
I Will we'll see we'll see where it leads up.
00:53.43
nathanpile
Yeah, as as as is typical Kevin and I talked for a little bit before we got on and I didn't know that that was the third question and we were talking about some of that ourselves.
01:04.66
Kevin Shock
Yes, what? Yes, we were actually ah now now that I think on it. Yeah, a disclaimer about it. Kevin and Nathan we are men married to women in financially stable households white in our late 40 s college and seminary educated. We work in the lutheran church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania all of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. But none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else including you. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with god and with one another so we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience and perspective through email or social media addresses at the end of the podcast. Ah, reading from ah acts 4 the next day. The leaders elders and legal experts gathered in Jerusalem along with Annas the high priest Caiaphas John Alexander and others from the high priest's family. Had Peter and John brought before them and asked by what power or in what name did you do this then Peter inspired by the holy spirit answered leaders of the people and elders we are examined today because something good was done for a sick person a good deed that healed him.
02:25.20
Kevin Shock
If so then you and all the people of Israel need to know that this man stands healthy before you because of the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene whom you crucified but whom god raised from the dead. This Jesus is the stone you builders rejected he has become the cornerstone salvation can be found in no one else. Throughout the whole world. No other name has been given among humans through which we must be saved if you are meeting with a group you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own Nathan. What word phrase or image strikes you in this text.
03:03.68
nathanpile
Ah I'll be honest with my my head my thought vortex that occurred for me in in your reading of the passage um was the description that the the author of acts Luke x. Um, has put in here in so Peter inspired by the holy spirit. Um, and I don't know why my head thought about this but I thought what a great way to be described to future generations like like I'd take that like as a preacher I'd be like if people said ah.
03:40.56
nathanpile
Nathan inspired by the holy spirit. Um, like I don't have any qualms of of that it has to be my words that I say actually I want them to be god's words I want them to be I ah want them to be um, something that is helpful to others as as I speak and.
04:00.53
nathanpile
Lead and recognizing that I I also know that I don't do that perfectly and and um and Kevin and I were just talking about situation of which I'm in that I know that I don't always ask my best or act my best um as I interact with this group of individuals that I've.
04:18.52
nathanpile
Ah, been challenged with here as a part of my my colleague at camp and so um and so recognizing um that the gift of the holy spirit is is given to each of us is in in in each of us and so um, this moment in time. Peter says the though the says words that are inspired by god that um that again this third person um is watching and and and there are like wow Peter said some really good things here that.
04:55.60
nathanpile
We want to make sure we pass on and tell others about and so um, that idea of of that we're all inspired by the gift of the holy spirit. Um, and what does that look like for us. How do we? How do we live into that. And and at least for me a part of of Kevin you and I meeting weekly to kind of have these conversations my hope is that that there's a nugget of of our conversation that somewhere embeds in my brain um, in the midst of hearing god's word kind of wash over us. That then the holy spirit holds onto within me that I might use it at some point in the week to help someone else be inspired so that was that was the that was the phrase that kind of stuck out to me that idea of of Peter here talking but but.
05:49.55
nathanpile
But it's not just. Peter's words it's this idea that we're inspired by the divine. Um, you know and and there's absolutely times that I would pray for that on myself to kind of say god just send your spirit to to do because I don't know what the next right move is. Um, but to be able to kind of recognize that every time we have an interaction every time we're within community. We have the the possibility that god might inspire us in a way that inspires others um like is is powerful so that's where my.
06:28.34
nathanpile
Thought for text took me today. How about you my my friend what word phrases or image struck out to you.
06:31.50
Kevin Shock
You Yeah, ah it's It's the same phrase Honestly, um, and and part of the reason I'm I was thinking about that is because this is such a common phrase in the book of acts. Um, and.
06:49.50
Kevin Shock
And you know I I acts is um, trying to think how to say this you know we Christian people Christ followers live with a vision of the future when Jesus returns. Um. There is wide and varied opinion about what the future will look like when Jesus returns some people think the return of Jesus is going to be a horrible terrible thing for the earth um I happen to fall into the camp where I think it's going to be a wonderful joyful beautiful thing for the earth um, um.
07:24.44
Kevin Shock
Ah, it. It. It may not. It may not be comfortable for everybody myself included because anything that is a part of me or in me that is not of god will be um, cast out or burned away or at least challenged. Um, so um, I'm not going to get my own way in the kingdom of heaven I know that right now I have to figure out ah between now and the time when Jesus comes how exactly I'm going to deal with that. Whatever it happens. Um.
07:49.14
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:02.90
Kevin Shock
Ah, like like you said, um, you know what what? a? what? a great way to be remembered that the words that I say are inspired by the holy spirit but the truth of the matter is maybe maybe about I don't know 2 to 3% of the words that I say are inspired by the holy spirit and the rest just comes out of my my. Ah. Sometimes ugly heart. Um, anyway, so that was a very long and windy tangent to come back to um the book of acts is a picture of the of the past of the history of the church that is a foretaste of that kingdom to come because. Things people are being healed people are being gathered together. Ah everyone sharing everything in common in the early church that more and more people are coming to ah trust in Jesus? um, there are all kinds of amazing amazing things happening and and acts. The author of acts makes it clear that the reason all of these amazing things are happening is because the holy spirit is in control of all of them including at many times the very words that come out of the people's mouths and ah.
09:18.24
Kevin Shock
So that I I think that it it makes me reflect on how little of what I do in the world is inspired by the Holy spirit. Um, and and yeah and and I mean yeah, how do it. Yeah, well I don't want to get I guess this will be into question number 3 I think that we know when something is inspired by the holy spirit and when something is not ah so the thing that the other thing that I like ah.
09:55.43
Kevin Shock
and and I actually realized I misread it when I read through it is the is what Peter then says to the um, the people and the the leaders and the elders I read it as a statement but it's a question.
10:10.53
Kevin Shock
Are we being examined today because something good was done for a sick person a good deed that healed him what a what? What a word of judgment.
10:21.20
nathanpile
Um, no no.
10:24.35
Kevin Shock
Ah, are are you are you mad because we're doing good things in God's name. That's that's that's what it is. That's what it is? Yeah, yeah, yeah and I and I can understand that I can understand that sentiment if ah, you know if.
10:29.84
nathanpile
Ah, yeah yeah.
10:40.27
Kevin Shock
Peter and John were going around ah punching people in the face and saying that god had told them to do that then that's probably worthy of examination but they're not they're healing people I mean they're lifting. They're helping people they're lifting them up and.
10:51.49
nathanpile
Um, right.
10:56.93
Kevin Shock
And and this this is what you this is the Hill You want to die on so to speak you know? Um, yeah so I but I guess both of those things together but inspired by the Holy spirit. Is it.
11:02.27
nathanpile
Um, right.
11:09.17
nathanpile
Yeah, well and and your reflection reminds us of something you and I talked about before that the the acts of the apostles which is the title of this book is really the acts of God and you you know you've said that that that that all of this book is is wrapped up in.
11:16.81
Kevin Shock
Right.
11:27.49
nathanpile
In God acting in the world and and of course as human beings we give it. We give you know the the connection to sometimes to the humans. Um, that are doing the actions but but behind all of that is always God um.
11:43.10
nathanpile
And so I you know I appreciate that from your reflection. There was 2 other things and of course ah they've now left my brain um as a part of this but the and so maybe it maybe it'll come back to me at some other point and I'm not going to belabor us here. Ah, ah.
11:58.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, um, just in response to you quickly I think that we just don't we don't have a good sense of in our day and age of what apostles actually means um apostles you know from Greek means one who is sent.
12:15.56
Kevin Shock
So so even in the in the title of that book. There is the implication that they're sent by somebody and that would be God Um, but yeah, but I do think that I I think that when we talked about it previously I said that I thought the name of the book should be the acts of the Holy spirit.
12:18.66
nathanpile
Right.
12:32.64
Kevin Shock
Through through the lives of the apostles or something like that. But yeah, yeah.
12:32.92
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah, yeah, or even if you um, actually translated apostles to the sent ones you know that that I continuing that idea of the acts of the holy spirit through the scent ones the ones who are sent. Um, yeah.
12:43.97
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, the ones the ones who were sent by God yeah.
12:52.38
nathanpile
Yeah, there'd be a better better. Ah, um, description of what goes on though. Let's be honest Matthew Mark Luke and John are not actually the best you know type titles for cause sport either.
13:06.36
Kevin Shock
No, they're not no, no, no, it would no be like it would be like calling that the Harry Potter series like J K Rowling one J K Rowling to it that it doesn't make any sense. Yeah yeah.
13:10.30
nathanpile
Ah, so we we.
13:22.19
nathanpile
Ah, we could. We got better title. We could have better title people in early in the church. It would have been um you know something else.
13:22.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah, no it. In fact, when when.
13:29.10
Kevin Shock
When and even this has become a newer thing for me and when I preach and I refer to the title of the gospels I Always say the gospel according to or something like that which which even that of itself is probably a bit negligent I should probably say like.
13:39.15
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah.
13:48.46
Kevin Shock
Ah, the gospel the good news of Jesus Christ according to but I yeah but it's it's insider language I think when when I say the gospel I think people know that I'm talking about the story of Jesus at least from the pulpit. So yeah.
13:49.49
nathanpile
Yeah, right? Yeah, it is it is yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Well good. Why don't we do this a second time.
14:06.42
Kevin Shock
Great.
14:12.40
nathanpile
Ah, the next day the leaders elders and legal experts gathered in Jerusalem along with Annas the high priest Caiaphas John Alexander and others from the high priest's family. They had Peter and John brought before them and asked. By what power or in what name did you do this then Peter inspired by the holy spirit answered leaders of the people and elders are we being examined today because something good was done for a sick person. A good deed that healed him if so then you and all the people of Israel need to know that this man stands healthy before you because of the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene whom you crucified but whom god raised from the dead. This Jesus is the stone your your builders rejected. He has become the cornerstone salvation can be found in no one else throughout the whole world. No other name has been given among humans through which. You we must be saved.
15:33.14
nathanpile
So Kevin um toward what is god calling you in this passage.
15:40.65
Kevin Shock
I Think um to examine my words and actions and thoughts. Ah that yeah I think I'm still thinking about the.
15:51.56
nathanpile
Um.
15:57.92
Kevin Shock
The answers that you and I gave for being inspired by the Holy spirit I don't know how regimented it has to be but I think it's a good practice for me at least I won't speak for any other Christian person um to to think about why I.
16:17.70
Kevin Shock
Say something or do something or react the way that I did or whatever it might be um and and that doesn't that doesn't always mean sometimes it leads to contrition and confession. Um.
16:36.99
Kevin Shock
Sometimes it leads to an apology that I have to give ah sometimes it leads to regret. Um, but I think also what it what it really helps me to do the whole purpose of it is to help me in the days that will follow from now.
16:55.92
Kevin Shock
To be better able to recognize what the holy spirit is guiding me to say and do and think and how the goal of the how the holy spirit is calling me to live so that my let my life actions words proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ
17:16.21
Kevin Shock
We we have in our um in our hymnals. The the red words which are like this the stage instructions that are stage directions. We we call rubrics and that's just because it comes from a Latin word I think meaning red like Ruby. Ah.
17:22.95
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah.
17:33.40
Kevin Shock
Rubric and um and in the brief order for confession and forgiveness at the beginning of our worship service. There is a um, what does it say now. It's a a a short. Ah um, ah time for.
17:53.10
Kevin Shock
Self-reflection or something like that. The the word self-ref reflection or self-examination is used and I can't remember it's one of those things I think it's self-examination. Um, Basically you're you're being instructed to think about the sinful things that you have done. Um, but I don't think that you always I don't think it just has to be. Relegated to the sinful things you've done I think that you can examine all of the things that you've done and and judge which which were good and which were fruitful and which were not helpful and which perhaps were sinful and um, yeah, so.
18:29.78
Kevin Shock
Ah, just think self-examination self-examination is what I'm feeling called to in this text. What about you? Nathan.
18:32.17
nathanpile
Now. Well I would I would I would reiterate that I think that that I'm your your reflection is is you know I was stuck around the the question that the high priests um the high priest and the high priest's family kind of ask Peter and John. Which is like what's your mode What's what's the mode of here. Um, you know, kind of trying to dig in and I think about myself you know I quite I ask that question a lot I I think about that um in a ah in a significant way. Um.
19:09.60
nathanpile
Like in in my own responses to the things of the world that I live in like I see something and I'm like Well what's the what's the motive behind that Person. What's going on you know and instead of instead of being like Wow look at this amazing thing that's happened I get critical of what I'm seeing before me. And I think that's a big part of our culture right now is that we're all kind of critically looking at our organizations our institutions our our our culture as a whole and and and and even to the point of individuals that we've gotten to the place of of of asking each other. But maybe we don't do it verbally to the actual person. Maybe we just do it in our own head but questioning and and essentially in that questioning maybe not always but sometimes making judgment just by the question of of ah making judgment about the other or making judgment about the Organization. You know, whatever, whatever it is that I'm.
20:06.79
nathanpile
I'm asking that that kind of primer question of you know how do you do this thing. You know what? what? What's what's behind what you're doing here essentially is what they're They're really asking. Um, and so so what is that and you know that's a part of who I am.
20:17.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.
20:25.49
nathanpile
And so your idea of self-reflection I think is ah is a good one to be able to say for us as Christians today. How do we self-reflect. How do we self-evaluate ourselves. How do we wrestle with some of those inner voices that loses sight of the beautiful thing that's in front of us. Because of our fear because of our own distrust because of um, the you know,? whatever's behind that and so like I'm not saying that we just blindly go into things either I'm you know I'm not advocating that way that like we're we're rational. We have rational minds.
21:05.92
nathanpile
They've helped us survive and and live along and and successful lives. But but I also think that sometimes the pendulum can swing too far and and I know it does in my life I can at least say that that sometimes I'm not able to look at this beautiful thing in front of me.
21:23.39
nathanpile
Because I'm making I'm making judgment about it because maybe I disagree with some aspect of their life and so you know, um, a for instance might be an example of when I was in college um I made I made judgment about other christians. Because I didn't think their theology was as good as mine. You know? and so um, they could have done something really good on campus as a group but I kind of like stuck my nose up in the air I'm I'm doing what the high priests are doing here kind of saying ah their motivation though isn't in the right place. Um.
21:43.46
Kevin Shock
Oh wow.
21:57.38
Kevin Shock
Ah, yeah yeah.
22:01.68
nathanpile
But they they did this wonderful beautiful thing and so like like how do I get by that part of me How do I How do I So How do I like the only person I can have any control over is me and so how do I when I hear that voice in my head. How do I turn that voice down. And instead look with um with grace and gratitude upon what the beautiful thing that that has happened instead of being um me first instead of me maybe maybe part of it is I'm jealous of of that they did this thing and I didn't wasn't a part of it. You know I don't. I Like you have to when you're in those moments you kind of have to kind of do the self-evaluation piece as you say of of what is what's really what am I Really feeling here and what and am I responding to so um, you know I Yeah so I think that that you're.
22:42.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah.
22:55.53
nathanpile
I'm I'm in the same place I feel this passage kind of calls me to kind of self-evaluate myself again this that's influenced but from our initial conversation I think of of being inspired by the holy spirit. But um, but how do I as ah as a follower of. Christ's way of of god's way in my life. How do I work on my own my own judgment my own prejudices that cause me to kind of want to dig in and evaluate what somebody else has done because I don't think it's right.
23:31.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.
23:32.91
nathanpile
Um, or I don't think they're right? Maybe they think that they did was right? but there's something else about their group that I just call into question. So.
23:42.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah I I wonder ah it resonated with me I mean I've I've had I've had similar experiences where I've just kind of looked looked down my nose at somebody whose theology I didn't agree with and. Maybe wasn't paying attention to the the things that God may have been doing through them. Um, but ah, you know you said is it my own jealousy like that could have been a motivation. I Wonder if that's the case here with the leaders and elders and legal experts too If they're thinking at this point if these guys keep doing this stuff.
24:22.64
nathanpile
Um, yeah, yeah.
24:35.97
Kevin Shock
People aren't going to listen to us for religious advice anymore they're going to start following them and and that's a and that puts them. Yeah it it. It's it I don't want to say it strips them of their authority but they're the privilege that they enjoy because of their authority is.
24:55.91
Kevin Shock
Undermined, Um, and that's not I'm I'm not saying that it should. It should be undermined I think um and and that's an honestly that brings up another thing about self-evaluation or self examination. Ah thinking about. You know you and I are both people who have we we spent time in graduate school getting advanced degrees in religious Matters. We have been trained to serve a specific role in the church and right now our.
25:32.25
Kevin Shock
Part of the church is changing where other people are stepping into some of those roles perhaps without the same kind of training or um education and and for me.
25:51.97
Kevin Shock
I'm finding myself and I was with a group of people yesterday in a meeting who are all ah not that we have a hierarchy in our church. But if we were to go by if we were to talk about ranking they all ranked on my level or higher. Um. And and we were having honest conversation about how is god working through people in ways that we were not taught that god works through people and and what what might god be calling us to do in the church.
26:30.94
Kevin Shock
Ah, to open doors for people that that have been previously closed and how do we? Um, you know someone may not have to have a master's degree in order to presided Holy communion. Ah. And I mean I tend to think that someone does not have to have a master's degree to preside at Holy communion. But then there are there are other conversations that come with that that it's still it's still um, there still needs to be formation that happens. Ah and there has to be some way to hold people accountable. And and so that um to help ensure that the work they're doing is of the Holy spirit and not of their own um ego or ah, but but I say all that to say.
27:27.37
Kevin Shock
People like you and me Nathan who wear the collar and have the degrees are just as susceptible to being driven by our own ego than you know, rather than the holy spirit. So I'm I'm not saying I'm not saying that I'm not saying that more education insulates us from that. Um.
27:37.90
nathanpile
Yeah, absolutely.
27:45.58
Kevin Shock
That that accountability that we are talking about for people kind of outside the system. Um that accountability exists to some extent inside the system but maybe could maybe could exist in an even better form. Um, yeah.
27:59.12
nathanpile
Um, yeah.
28:05.90
Kevin Shock
There is you know there is kind of like a in the back of my head I'm slowly disabusing myself of that thought but in the back of my head there is a I spent 4 years of my life I spent tens of thousands of dollars to to get this privilege and and now people are.
28:25.25
Kevin Shock
Stepping into it and a much what I what I perceive to be a much easier way. Well who am I to say who God calls to this work. It's not up to me, not me alone and and some of it is I just have to get over myself.
28:44.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah I I can still well the other the other thing I've been thinking a lot about I guess I'm getting a little too turning into therapy more than reflection on the bible. But um, ah. The other. The other thing that I've been thinking a lot about is that ah just because other people are stepping into a role. They might be similar to mine in the church does not mean that my role is not still important and valued and.
29:16.34
nathanpile
Right.
29:20.63
Kevin Shock
And in fact, it might even be redefining my role in my call that other people are now doing this and so so much more The reason for self-examination and discussion with others about how best do I serve. The hold people of God in the position that I'm in and some of it Some of it might be empowering other people to do the work that I'm already doing for the sake of the gospel and and you know and my.
29:41.45
nathanpile
Yeah, well.
29:56.82
Kevin Shock
My my student loans are my student loans. They're not God Student loans My my degree is my degree. It's not God's degree. Ah I mean but but but my call is God's call.
30:10.35
Kevin Shock
And so it's it's best for me to know what exactly God is calling me to.
30:18.54
nathanpile
Well and and I think there's a part of this passage that is like beautifully parallels what you just kind of talked about like the the high priests and these other priests could be looking at how is god calling us to do something differently. Instead they're grilling the the 2 guys that did something to kind of say how'd this happen and and so it's more of a you know it's not a let's let's let's see what. It's ah it's a different kind of sets of questions you know and and so this situation could have been played out in another way of of having calling Peter and John before them and saying wow how you know they could even start maybe with the same question of how'd this happened but but.
31:12.21
nathanpile
What do you hear God doing in the world that we're not hearing you know that's not what their their question isn't that but it would be it could you could start from a kind of same place of how you know this is amazing. How did this happen and yet at the same time. The follow up question can be more of of.
31:31.53
nathanpile
What's wow. What's God doing in our world and how can we work. We're called by God How do we? How do we live into that in in some different ways instead. It's more about holding on power and holding on control um kind of a piece. So um.
31:44.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it this and this conversation also reminds me of another part of scripture in the gospel of Jesus Christ according to John ah note what note what I did there? Nathan um, yeah, okay.
31:48.79
nathanpile
Yeah.
32:00.56
nathanpile
I did I did thank you? um.
32:02.55
Kevin Shock
Ah, in in chapter 7 Jesus Jesus has come from galilee he's back in Jerusalem he's in the temple teaching even though he knows that people are plotting for his arrest and his death and this is still pretty early in the gospel. Honestly, um.
32:20.72
Kevin Shock
But we hear that towards the end of the chapter. The crowd was divided over Jesus someone wanted to arrest him. But no one grabbed him. Ah the guards came back to the chief priests and they asked why didn't you bring him? ah the guards say no one has ever spoken the way he does ah and the pharisees reply.
32:39.59
Kevin Shock
Replied this is from the CEB have you have you 2 been deceived have any of the leaders believed in him has any pharisee. No only this crowd which doesn't know the law and they are under god's curse and then Nicodemus who was one of them.
32:58.00
Kevin Shock
And had come to Jesus earlier said our law doesn't judge someone without first hearing him and learning what he is doing does it and what was their answer. You're not from galilee too. Are you look it up and you will see that the prophet doesn't come from galilee.
33:16.24
Kevin Shock
Right? that I mean there it is that is the perfect example of the religious leaders and and I'm not talking when I say religious leaders I mean religious leaders I don't mean I don't mean jews I don't mean it. It's any it it could it could translate to us today as easily as it did then um we want to hold our privilege. We want to hold our power and we don't want people challenging that and and it's not just in the church either. I mean it's in so many aspects of life. But I think that this you know.
33:52.00
Kevin Shock
The guards go to and they're I mean they're mesmerized by him. No one's ever spoken the way he does and you want us to arrest him. Well, it's not your call to make it's our call to make you you do? what we tell you to do and then one of their own comes to them and says yeah but we haven't even heard what he's doing. We haven't we haven't learned about him yet.
34:11.82
Kevin Shock
Even the law tells us to do that and and you know and they they just they just batter him too. What's your problem Nicodemus don't you see how he's challenging us. Do you want to go listen to him. Ah, yeah, yeah.
34:15.28
nathanpile
Um, ah right.
34:31.37
Kevin Shock
Anyway, well should we look at this a third time. Okay from acts 4 the next day the leaders elders and legal experts gathered in Jerusalem along with Annas the high priest Caiaphas John Alexander and others from the high priest's family.
34:34.35
nathanpile
Let's look at it one more time.
34:50.63
Kevin Shock
Had Peter and John brought before them and asked by what power or in what name did you do this then Peter inspired by the holy spirit answered leaders of the people and elders we are being are we being examined today because something good was done for a sick person a good deed that healed him. If. So then you and all the people of Israel need to know that this man stands healthy before you because of the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene whom you crucified but whom god raised from the dead. This Jesus is the stone you builders rejected he has become the cornerstone salvation can be found in no one else. Throughout the whole world. No other name has been given among humans through which we must be saved Nathan how are the deeds of Christ followers examined today.
35:43.72
nathanpile
Um, so I'll go back to our disclaimer as I start this? um I'm a Christian looking at christians um or critiquing us as christians I don't have any idea.
36:00.62
nathanpile
In my experiences um of what it looks like for somebody. That's not a Christian looking at looking at the church I know I've heard things and so forth. But I don't have any personal personal experience in those ways. So so.
36:11.49
Kevin Shock
Personal experience. Yeah.
36:18.74
nathanpile
I Share that at the beginning of this the the next part of it I would say that we as Christians are can We are this passage. We are the Chief priests. Um as Christians in my in my life We typically are really good about tearing each other down. Um. And and showing our division and and our separation in in unfortunate ways. Um, and so I would say that that we as Christians can be really critical of of um.
36:56.70
nathanpile
Of What other Christians are doing what other Christians are saying um and I think it's easier to do that. It's easy to critique. What somebody else is doing than to put ourselves out there and so the the. My end piece of so I've say those couple of things. Um I Think the the thing that our world and others and I think other Christians need to um, not so much See. Um. But like there's a part of um, the acts of the Holy spirit. Yeah um, sending God's servants out into the world. There's a sense of bravery in some of the pieces that they're doing.
37:50.64
nathanpile
And I'm not positive um that that being brave. It's harder to be brave right now as the church than it is to critique what we're doing or what others are doing and so I think we we have a ah tendency. Um.
38:10.50
nathanpile
To look at others deeds and examine them harshly critically um and point at our so put it on point at ourselves and say hey this is that we're not that way we're not that way. Um. As we examine as we examine others I think the the part that the the question makes me kind of yearn for is is how do we do brave things that goes against society and and people can critique us for that. Because maybe we didn't do the right things but I almost feel like we're not doing brave things because we don't want to be critiqued and so the fear of of examination has has limited. Our. Our being inspired by the holy spirit and so I guess that would be um I it doesn't feel like our our deeds as as the followers of Christ were where we live in a world that that that kind of judgment that kind of. Um, examination is happening all the time and because it's happening all the time we're also a little bit more shy. Anxious um, fearful to take brave.
39:45.24
nathanpile
To to to venture out and do brave things even though the the I think as as the word might inspire us as as the Holy spirit and the word might inspire us in the world that we live. Um I.
40:03.62
nathanpile
Were were hesitant to step into doing the deeds of Christ because because we know that there's there's criticism and examination out there. Um, maybe from our own neighbors who sit in the pews next to us.
40:23.61
nathanpile
Um, and maybe from people Well beyond that and so it's easier to just join with the criticism and the examination of others and then kind of sit there self-righteously and say yeah, but we're not like that. So I don't know that's where your question kind of led me.
40:38.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah I mean I I agree with pretty much everything you said there my reflection led in a different direction and um again I I think that you're.
40:48.20
nathanpile
Okay.
40:56.64
Kevin Shock
You're on target with what you're saying it led me to think about people who are outside of the church and who ah examine the church as an as an outside voice and you know I think I think a lot of times you see it on.
41:14.88
Kevin Shock
I see it on social media that there are comments memes. Ah you know stuff that talks about how how christians could act a little more like Christ you know I mean I mean stuff like that. Ah.
41:28.53
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah.
41:32.44
Kevin Shock
I think I for one this is not a I don't want to say it's an entirely popular opinion I would hope that a lot of people would agree with it. But I think that I think that christians benefit. From some critique not criticism critique I mean let's let's be honest about that criticism is tough to swallow. But I think if if people if there are people who are not followers of Jesus who are looking at the church and saying. This is what I see when I look at you. It's good for us to listen to that because in my mind they don't they don't have anything to gain by critiquing the church. They're already not in the church. Ah you know it doesn't.
42:27.40
Kevin Shock
They don't have to pay us any mind at all. Um, but I also think that the holy spirit can work through people who are who are not followers of Jesus but have some idea of who Jesus is to help us.
42:45.30
Kevin Shock
Get better in line with following Jesus I don't to say it? Um I think that we again perhaps unpopular opinion. Not you'll agree with me Nathan but and and probably a lot of our listeners will too I think we benefit from a pluralistic society.
43:02.22
nathanpile
Sure. Absolutely.
43:04.47
Kevin Shock
I Think I think we benefit from having a lot of different viewpoints ah from having different people of different faiths. It's what I treasure as an American that that we are different people and. It seems to me like as I get older. We do a worse job of being unified in our diversity and I think that I think that for a long time. Also diversity was not the was not the desired and goal assimilation was um.
43:41.70
Kevin Shock
But I think diversity is a good thing because it helps us to see well. The whole reason you and I give that disclaimer at the beginning Nathan and our worldview is narrow because of who we are. It's based on our experience and so if we can see the world through the. Through the perspective of somebody else who is different from us. It will help us to understand the whole world better and so for me if there are people who are not followers followers of Christ who are looking at followers of Christ and willing to give their their. Reflections on how we are doing I think that's a good thing. Not a comfortable thing but a good thing so i.
44:22.40
nathanpile
No, no well and and your your reflection helps me to kind of put in in um, in into context my my the 3 points that I was making because that third point I think is is that. Critique from the outside. Um, like I think I think people from the outside of the church say that like if you're going to say that you follow Jesus and be brave enough to follow Jesus? um, we we don't we're we're not willing to risk and live into that and I and so I I appreciate your.
44:59.11
nathanpile
Kind of fleshing that out because I I kind of jumped from where I was at and and I kind of just interpreted in my again I don't exactly know where people outside the church believe and and feel unless I have conversations with them and and the things that the people that I have had those conversations with um and and. Ah, memes that you see on social media. The things that you see as blurbs and and so forth whether it's in a news article kind of lead lead me to make the assumption of of kind of lumping all of their the things that I've read and and and conversations I've been a part of to kind of say one of the. 1 of the issues for for christians one of the critiques. Ah for christians is that we're not brave enough to live into who Jesus calls us to be now that might again, that's all my my kind of take on other people outside of it but I but I agree I think that that. We the people ah of god's people need to be willing to hear critique beyond us. Um, so that maybe that can you know again god can use them to inspire us to be something else. Um to to. To be inspired to move in new ways to be the acts of the holy spirit in us today. Um, kind of a thing and so yes, we have scripture for that and and but I also believe wholeheartedly that the holy spirit.
46:21.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah.
46:34.50
nathanpile
Works in in in all people um and and so are we willing to to be challenged from the outside so that we might begin to kind of look. Um, what was the word you it was an examination or wasn't evaluation. Maybe it was examination.
46:51.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah examination Yeah self-examination. Yeah.
46:53.16
nathanpile
That we do that self that we do that self-examination. Um, can we listen can because it it is uncomfortable. Can we listen and be uncomfortable, be vulnerable and look at ourselves and say yeah, we do need to be braver in areas of as the church.
47:12.90
nathanpile
To have courage to to try and live opposite of culture to live um a more vulnerable life that that makes us open to people critiquing us and saying we think you're wrong. Um, so yeah, no I appreciated your reflection because it helped me make sense of what I did in my own reflection of of of why did I jump to bravery after the other 2 pieces it was because ah in my head I was thinking about how others ah outside the church.
47:51.40
nathanpile
At least how I've heard others outside the church critique The church. Um, and so I hear that that that critique of be brave Christians be brave. Um, be who you be who you who you claim to follow.
48:07.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, brave. Yeah well bravery is another word that we could unpack but I don't yeah yeah I agree with you it does it does require bravery. It requires compassion to.
48:08.77
nathanpile
So.
48:15.78
nathanpile
Sure sure sure.
48:23.99
nathanpile
Um, yeah, no yeah yeah.
48:26.33
Kevin Shock
and and I think I think that compassion does being compassionate truly compassionate requires bravery as you were when you were talking back talking about self reflect self-examination Nathan ah, the rubric came to mind it says silence for self-examination. That's what it says? Yeah, yeah anyway I don't think so now just these additional texts.
48:46.98
nathanpile
Silence for Self-ex examination. Yeah, all right anything else. Ah here on this passage.
49:00.94
nathanpile
All right? We have psalm 23 this is the lord is my shepherd passage and so that connects here in this. Um.
49:16.73
nathanpile
With this theme for the for the Sundays lectionary first John chapter 3 verses 16 through 24 love in truth and action again that idea of of um.
49:35.22
nathanpile
The the acts of the apostles. The the acts of the holy spirit the acts of you and me and how that lives out in our lives that gift of love and then the gospel from John or the good news of Jesus according to John chapter 10
49:49.46
Kevin Shock
There you go.
49:53.55
nathanpile
Ah, versus 11 through eighteen Christ the shepherd and so this is oftentimes the Sunday we refer to the good shepherd. Um passage. So this idea of the shepherd coming and leading us. Um.
50:09.86
nathanpile
Leading us in life in our in our day-to- day actions in life. So well. Kevin thank you for your reflections and and thoughts here of this passage again. This was a fruitful conversation for me that I hope will inspire me in my. Week ahead. Ah we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.
50:33.85
Kevin Shock
And peace.