Episode 048: Isaiah 25:1-9

 Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text? 
Toward what is God calling you in this text? 
What are you waiting for God to do?  

Additional texts:
Exodus 32:1-14 
Psalm 106:1-6, 19-23 
Psalm 23 
Philippians 4:1-9 
Matthew 22:1-14 

Transcript

00:02.54
Kevin Shock
Hey folks, it's time to tend. Ah here we are again to talk about scripture. Um Nathan and I changed the ah prep sheet. We do a little bit so I'm I'm actually a little confused about what we're talking about today. It's right there in front of me. It's just the. My brain is not used to the new flow yet. So we are going to be talking about scripture today. It's this just threw me off buddy I anyway, yeah, right, right? that means nothing to you who are listening probably but today we're talking about isaiah chapter 25.

00:28.82
nathanpile
We're going to talk about episode 48

00:38.19
Kevin Shock
Versus 1 through 9 and the translation we are using is the new revised standard version updated edition again, you can always find that on biblegateway.com or the biblegateway app are 3 questions for today. What word phrase or image strikes you in this text. Toward what is god calling you in this text and remember this third question always related to the scripture. What are you waiting for god to do.

01:07.39
nathanpile
<unk> disclaimer about our demographics any discussion that follows comes from the perspective of Nathan and Kevin who are middle aged cis hat white male pastors in the lutheran christian tradition. Born and raised in western pennsylvania and we hope that your conversation comes from your perspective and goes in different directions isaiah the twenty fifth chapter verses 1 through 9 o lord you are my god I will exalt you. I will praise your name for you have done wonderful things plans formed of old faithful and sure for you have made a city a heap the fortified city aroon the palace of foreigners is a city. No more. It will never be rebuilt therefore strong peoples will glorify you cities of ruthless nations will fear you for you have been a refuge to the poor a refuge to the needy in their distress a shelter. From the rainstorm and a shade from the heat when the blast of the ruthless was like a winter rainstorm the noise of foreigners will heat like heat in a dry place. You subdued the heat with the shade of clouds the song of the ruthless was stilled.

02:42.00
nathanpile
O this mountain the lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food. A feast of well-aged wines of rich food filled with marrow of well-aged wine strained clear and he will destroy on this mountain. The shroud that is cast over all peoples. Covering that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever when the lord god will weep will wipe away the tears from all faces and the disgrace of his people. He will take away from all the earth for the Lord has spoken. It will be said on that day. See this is our god we have waited for him so that he might save us. This is the lord for whom we have waited. Let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation. If you're meeting with a group you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Well Kevin what word phrase or image strikes you in this text.

03:49.92
Kevin Shock
The image of God preparing the feast on the Holy mountain for all the nations to come to. Um I I'm especially mindful of it now because we are.

04:05.86
Kevin Shock
Hearing in the news all the time ah people fighting over the Holy mountain. Um, not that it's not that it's one Holy mountain. But it's really discouraging the way that um.

04:24.74
Kevin Shock
Way that people I've been thinking a lot about this in the last couple of days since we heard this news about what's happening in Israel and the gaza strip and um I ah that.

04:36.31
nathanpile
Um, even.

04:41.87
Kevin Shock
That we're that we're fighting for what we think are holy causes that we go to war because we think God is calling us to do that and in the lutheran Tradition. We do say that. Perhaps there are times when God is calling us toward War to end some kind of injustice. Um, but I just find it hard to see in what's happening right now and I know there's I know there's a lot of injustice there.

05:17.22
nathanpile
Um.

05:20.29
Kevin Shock
I Know there's a lot of injustice there. Um so I'm not I'm not necessarily saying this to like you know to blame one side or the other one religion or the other one faction or the other um but it it's heartbreaking for me that we fight that we. We're willing to kill people in the name of God Um, whenever this image. This image is an image of all the nations of varied.

05:44.37
nathanpile
Yeah.

05:56.63
Kevin Shock
Background and race and and probably even faith practice coming to this mountain to be well fed and to exist in peace with one another that. Um.

06:16.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's that's that's what I long for I think that's probably what a lot of people long for I Think that's what palestinians and Israelis long for to I don't know if I don't know if all of them would be able to say that they long to be in.

06:25.33
nathanpile
Now.

06:33.86
Kevin Shock
In peace in that place with each other. Um, but I think they would all prefer peace over what's happening right now I would like to think that.

06:45.26
nathanpile
Now.

06:49.68
Kevin Shock
So that image I mean just the the the image the image of the feast is um is I think a wonderful holy image. But for me, you know the feast is not um, the feast is not about the food. The feast is about the gathering.

07:07.84
Kevin Shock
The feast is about the people in peace around the table. Their weapons down rich rejoicing in one. Another's presence.

07:26.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so that's the image. We're usually not that serious right off the bat. But oh.

07:33.51
nathanpile
Well but but this passage I think takes us there. Um there you know as I both listen to your reflection and and think about this as I was reading it I got one of the things that popped into my head was. While we're reading this and you know in the you know if we had done this early last week. It wouldn't have had some of the power that it has today. Um, so right right.

07:58.98
Kevin Shock
Right. Right? Yeah yeah I still would have been drawn to that image but not right. It would not have been such a stark contrast to what we're seeing right now. Yeah.

08:13.14
nathanpile
Yeah, so with the breakout of war the fighting between essentially 2 peoples fighting over the land and as you said about them fighting over the mountain. Just that idea of.

08:35.41
nathanpile
We have a God who can make anything holy and yet we as humans have this tendency to have the right place be holy or the right. You know the the tendency is even like the right words or the right theology that we have all of the you know we have like that God can't make some other mountain as holy as where jerusalem sits. It's silly. Um.

08:55.49
Kevin Shock
Know who.

09:08.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, and and I and I do I do understand that I understand the striving over jerusalem I do understand that I for me at least in the.

09:11.49
nathanpile
You know.

09:24.85
Kevin Shock
I mean I'm not familiar with the quran very much at all. Um Isaiah I'm familiar with ah and in isaiah the whole point of the people being reestablished is that they will be a beacon to the other nations. So it's never.

09:29.29
nathanpile
Sure.

09:44.47
Kevin Shock
In Isaiah at least I'm I'm sure you know there are lots of different interpret and I also don't know I don't know midrash or any you know any rabbinical commentaries on on the Torah or the or the prophets or the writings. Um, but.

10:03.66
Kevin Shock
Jerusalem is intended to be in isaiah at least a place where all the nations gather and they and they gather there because god has called them there to live in peace. And to be a light to the whole world. So yeah I ah yeah, you know there's there's a lot of there's both a lot of writing that I'm not familiar with and there's all kinds of context.

10:39.37
nathanpile
Though Sure sure sure.

10:40.70
Kevin Shock
It's gotten us to where we are today. Um that I'm that I'm just kind of you know, ah sweeping under the rug here. But what I'm looking at is if I just look at this scripture and if I look at it in the context of the whole of this book this prophetic book. Isaiah I mean it's clear what the purpose of Jerusalem is it. It is the holy it is the holy land. Um, and and it's to be a gathering place for all the peoples.

11:17.29
Kevin Shock
I think the other the other short reflection and then I want to hear what you have to say the the other thing that I think about and this actually ties into the sermon I preached this past week as well. Um, but I think the more that we try to.

11:34.82
Kevin Shock
Um, the more that we try to do a holy thing by preserving what God has called Holy it seems the more we try to do that the more we end up desecrating. What is holy.

11:50.73
nathanpile
And.

11:53.41
Kevin Shock
I Mean that that war right now is desecrating the land and right right? or right right? right? right? Yes, no of course of course that yeah I Just yeah.

11:57.90
nathanpile
No, and the families and the people and you know sure well I know I know but I don't I'm just saying like that and I think that's the piece of this that is so hard. Um, of that. There's there I don't ah you know that to live in the Middle East I don't I don't um, know all of the things that are influencing this fighting. Um. I don't have to live day to day there I don't have to worry about my safety if I'm on one side or the other I'm not I'm not you know? and so there's lots of this war and any war that I don't fully understand the ramifications of ultimately.

12:39.93
Kevin Shock
Um.

12:51.17
nathanpile
Um, but there's there's there's something about our drive to make holy that just falls apart as you said.

13:08.78
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah.

13:09.42
nathanpile
You know and so and and so you know I think that's like how do how do we do that? How do we? How do we look at ourselves and recognize that the thing that god is calling for in this passage is um is a giant feast of rich food and wine. For all people it says it multiple times. All people um and and yet the thing that we find ourselves doing is that very human thing of. What it feels like to me that very human thing of I have to have it my way at this point like like I like this idea of everybody can sit and have a feast together but we'll do that once everybody follows my rules. Um, um, as human beings as human beings. We say that not god that we as human beings say you know if I'm the if I'm the the government of Israel Jerusalem can be a city for all all others. But.

14:15.34
Kevin Shock
Um.

14:25.35
nathanpile
Um, you have to follow our rules for that to be the case. Um, and and for people of Hamas to say we want to be free and be able to travel the city that is holy the way we want to.

14:31.65
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah.

14:43.65
Kevin Shock
Um.

14:43.70
nathanpile
And so they just keep fighting fighting. You know the the struggle of humans who's going to be in control. Um you know and so it's we want this Holy city.

14:52.64
Kevin Shock
That's it. Yeah.

15:01.47
nathanpile
To be what did it say at the beginning because that was part of where my mind first went though this passage has got lots of stuff to it and so my mind went to a couple of different places. But um, ah you have done wonderful things plans formed of old faithful and sure. Um, you know and so that that that expression of of this is who god is old faithful and sure what a statement.

15:20.32
Kevin Shock
Ah.

15:37.53
nathanpile
Of this is this this being who God is here at the beginning of of this chapter um and recognizing that that that God is constantly working towards.

15:56.90
nathanpile
This feast on the mountain though in weeks like this one. It feels very far away in my in my in my mind.

16:06.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah, actually yeah yeah, actually the first half of this reading it feels closer to that. Um, you know there's there's it's interesting that the first half? Yeah yeah.

16:10.84
nathanpile
Yeah, you know the City's gonna be a heap and in ruins.

16:20.74
Kevin Shock
The first half of this reading is about there's you know there's there's speech ah, ah against foreigners. Um, yeah, the the the noise you know there's they talk about you know the.

16:27.45
nathanpile
Yeah.

16:34.99
Kevin Shock
Cities of ruthless nations will fear you the noise of foreigners like heat in a dry place and then there's a clear break between verse 5 and verse 6 where you know I I think I don't know that um this is one of those places where I think that maybe.

16:41.27
nathanpile
Yeah.

16:53.64
Kevin Shock
Um, our the learning that we've had is helpful a little bit and that is um, peoples on this mountain. The lord of hosts will make for all peoples that that word is indicates all other nations.

17:10.77
nathanpile
Yeah.

17:12.78
Kevin Shock
Ah, like all other all other types of people. Not you know the people. Well what we would what we would call the gentiles. Um, so this is this is clear that um for me in verse six. There's a change that all of that. Um, all the division between god's chosen people the jewish people and foreigners is now done away with and god is preparing a feast for the jewish people and the foreigners. To come together on that mountain and be well fed and and when they are on that Mountain Mountain together this this shroud that's talked about um which in verse eight we I think is an allusion to death. Shroud that's cast over all peoples the covering that has spread over all nations. He will destroy on this mountain he will swallow up death forever and what what a prophetic word in the middle of a war when people are already.

18:14.80
nathanpile
Map.

18:26.40
Kevin Shock
Morning they're dead or they don't know you know their family members are missing. They don't know where they are I mean I heard stories on the radio this morning both ah about the family members of an 85 year old woman who's looking for her. They have evidence that hamas. Captured her and she doesn't have any of her medications or anything how long she going to be able to live and the other story I heard was an infant that had been carried off and you know that it's it's brutality.

18:49.80
nathanpile
E.

19:02.40
Kevin Shock
In in the name of God It is brutality and God is not brutal. Easy for me to say in my in my comfort I've I've never I've never been oppressed I've never no one has ever told me because of my faith where I need to go or where I can't go.

19:13.90
nathanpile
Right? right? yeah.

19:26.99
Kevin Shock
Or what language I need to speak or no one has ever done that and and and boy when I when I hear ah what um, sorry dear listeners if this offends you ah I'm not sorry. That's not that's never an apology when someone says if this offends you. Um, people in the United States christians in the United States do do not know what oppression and um, ah, what's the word I'm looking for well certainly not oppression. But um.

19:55.30
nathanpile
Um.

20:03.53
Kevin Shock
I Think there's ah, there's a strain among certain christians that we're being. We're being censored or we're being oppressed or we're not. You know we're not free to worship as we want and that is a lie that's a lie. No one. No one is ever now you might not agree with some.

20:13.88
nathanpile
Yeah.

20:22.36
Kevin Shock
Political policies based on what your faith says. That's that that I will concede but that is not preventing you from worshiping God the way that you want to worship. No One's ever. No one has ever told you that or me that I can't worship the way that I'm. Feel called to worship that I can't gather with other christians that I can't read my bible or pray that I'm not allowed to go to a certain area of the country because of who you know the faith that I have or the God that I worship that has never happened and so we are not. We are not oppressed here. We're We're not.

20:43.74
nathanpile
Now.

21:00.45
Kevin Shock
Um, we're not in danger we're not in danger of having our faith expression taken away from us. Um I think there are propagandists who will tell us that to get us all worked up to get us in fear so that we're ready to take up arms if we need to.

21:15.90
nathanpile
Well and and society doesn't look like it did but that doesn't make it oppression.

21:17.95
Kevin Shock
Which again.

21:23.62
Kevin Shock
That's exactly right, right? right? right? There are other people who have taken um, taken a place in the in the public square um, that you know christians may not be right at the center of everything like we were. Fifty years ago but that doesn't mean that we're not still able to be who we are anyway, that was a that was a long tangent but um I just yeah, yeah, well Thanks.

21:54.24
nathanpile
No appreciate it I appreciate it. Um, and and you you another word for me which was the other part of mine which was death. Um and I appreciated your reflection on it in that.

21:58.23
Kevin Shock
Ah, yeah.

22:04.64
Kevin Shock
The.

22:10.67
nathanpile
God Swallows up death Forever can be words of comfort to those who are oppressed or or feeling like they are being killed. Um, whether through war or through some other.

22:30.49
nathanpile
Wrong judgment or at least seen as wrong judgment upon them the but there's there's also a part of this phrase that when I read it that boy we're not very comfortable with death any any level of death.

22:39.74
Kevin Shock
Shape.

22:46.68
Kevin Shock
Oh no.

22:49.77
nathanpile
And yet death is a part of life and so we want God to save us from death and yet at least from my biology side of me um, death had like.

23:03.66
Kevin Shock
I.

23:07.49
nathanpile
Right now. Our trees are changing color here at camp which is really pretty for two weeks and then it's going to turn brown and the and the plant's not dying but it looks like death ah and and no one ever says ooh. Let's go out and look at the brown leaves.

23:19.39
Kevin Shock
E.

23:26.73
nathanpile
You know we want to go see the colorful ones but but but it's a part of the cycle of life death is and and as ah as a hunter and a fisherman for me like we can be pretty in today's world we can be pretty far off where our food comes from. We go to the grocery store. We pick it up. It's been processed so it's been cleaned up. Nice and neat put in a plastic bag or.

23:50.70
Kevin Shock
Me.

24:00.66
Kevin Shock
Um.

24:01.31
nathanpile
Ah, styrofoam tray with some saran wrap over top of it and but like from from the our ancestors when they had to go out and kill the the.

24:17.89
nathanpile
Cow for the winter so that they had food all winter long like that death brought them life and they had a like a touch of that as a part of them like that touched their lives so like today like I even think about um, you know when I first became a pastor.

24:28.96
Kevin Shock
Me me.

24:37.59
nathanpile
Seventeen years ago 1 of the things that was odd to me was that I went to the funeral home for the viewing in my in our parish and and and I went to lots of funerals and lots of viewings as I served as a pastor. But like that's taken that experience is taken out of the home. It's taken out of the sanctuary space unless there's a funeral done at the the actual sanctuary space the holy and so we've taken this part of of something that makes us feel very uncomfortable.

25:03.47
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, yeah.

25:16.31
nathanpile
And removed it from our lives and yet as as a good lutheran Theologian I would say out of death comes life. We believe in the resurrection we believe that God is constantly remaking the world. Um, that God is constantly.

25:21.34
Kevin Shock
Are.

25:34.36
Kevin Shock
Um, who.

25:36.12
nathanpile
Bringing life out of death and so being able to see to to take off a part of that to remove it from from our lives means that we don't experience it. We don't experience death in the same way. Um, and.

25:49.65
Kevin Shock
Um.

25:52.83
nathanpile
Some of the most intimate moments of my ministry and of my family life is sitting next sitting with family as their loved one dies for my loved 1 in the in the setting and so.

26:05.60
Kevin Shock
Sure.

26:09.53
nathanpile
Those are those ah have always been for me Holy moments. But we've and and and they're powerful moments but boy I also feel like we're trying to push those off to the side in our lives and so then then that encounter of.

26:11.74
Kevin Shock
Here.

26:22.11
Kevin Shock
A.

26:28.20
nathanpile
The holy also gets missed. Um, and instead you know, just hearing that phrase at the beginning of verse 8 he will swallow up death forever gives us that idea of boy god if you could really make this go away if you could really make the this idea of.

26:29.34
Kevin Shock
Here here.

26:47.70
nathanpile
Of of death not be there now I know that's not what what's being said here but but there's a feeling of that I think in our in our world and and I understand that there's hope in this passage but today when I heard that word death. Um it it also struck me as.

27:01.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:06.79
nathanpile
Boy we're just not really comfortable with that and so I could I can hear the plea of God take death away from us so that we don't have to experience the loss and the sadness and the the pain that goes with it because you have all of those things when.

27:23.75
Kevin Shock
Um.

27:25.17
nathanpile
Ah, loved 1 dies. Um.

27:26.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and oh yeah, and and yet that is that's what makes it holy there's some, there's something about 2 things that I was thinking about as you were talking in your reflection one. We don't.

27:35.97
nathanpile
Oh.

27:46.74
Kevin Shock
And we've already said this we're not the ones who make things holy holiness. Holy things. Holy moments. Holy people are given to us and we at our best receive them openly. And so I was thinking about you know you were talking about the situations where you've been with either 1 of your loved ones has died or or you know the family member of ah of a church person. You know, ah a parishioner or something like that those are those are holy moments like those are. Those are not things that we don't make them holy ah god gifts them to us and and and there's something about death that makes us vulnerable and being vulnerable.

28:24.79
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah.

28:38.31
Kevin Shock
Can make us open to the goodness that God is showing us and and I'm and I'm not saying that like you know that God God causes death in order to bring something better out of it. No, but but God takes what is the the thing that we fear most in humanity and God um.

28:48.30
nathanpile
That.

28:58.90
Kevin Shock
Lessons its impact. There's something about this reading that. Um I love that image of swallowing up death forever. Um, because the the reason I love that image is because this is a feast.

29:15.70
nathanpile
E.

29:17.73
Kevin Shock
And all of the people are eating rich food and well-aged wines and God is eating death. There's just something about that image that ah like gets me right in the core of my being. Um.

29:24.64
nathanpile
Stand.

29:35.40
Kevin Shock
But the other thing is that that line doesn't say he will pretend that death was never a thing but like like there's an acknowledgement there that death was a thing is a thing and um and and you know here in in Isaiah just like in revelation.

29:41.52
nathanpile
My. Work right.

29:54.71
Kevin Shock
God does not ah stop the crying God wipes away the tears from all the faces like there's a there's a it's clear. Yes, yes, let let the tears flow. Let the grief happen and God will be there too.

29:58.83
nathanpile
No, let's the emotions be felt let the let's the emotions be film.

30:13.56
Kevin Shock
Show us mercy and and comfort us in time of need. Yeah yeah I know I I mean I agree with you buddy that we yeah we don't We do not like physical death is probably the Death. We deal with the best. But I mean we and we don't deal it with that. Well but well no right right? but but we do everything we can to avoid it. Um, you know, Ah, which I think there's you know? Okay, so.

30:34.79
nathanpile
I Was gonna say and we don't do that. Well so that just tells you that just tells you how.

30:47.11
nathanpile
Um.

30:51.86
Kevin Shock
It's a good thing to try to be healthy. That's for sure. Um, there are some people who really do their best to avoid death at all by all costs at all costs. Um the other and the other thing is that we do not handle Well the death of our institutions or the death of our traditions or whatever it may be and.

30:52.73
nathanpile
Yes.

31:11.80
Kevin Shock
And there's something about this reading that says the the goodness of God is not going to be delivered to you in a way that it ever has been before and and you're going to be.. There're going to be different people around you Um, but this is. This is how this is how amazing it's going to be um so you know this is not I don't I don't know I don't know this is this is there's something about this that it's um, this. This worship this gathering looks different than what has come before it.

31:56.94
nathanpile
Well something there that you said causes me to ask a question that's that's not 1 of our 3 questions but is a question that that um, as you said earlier.

32:12.88
nathanpile
Physical death death of a loved 1 death in the family or a friend. We do better than anything else. So why is it that. That that's the case and we're not able to allow death to happen as you said to organizations or institutions. Why is it? Why is it that we're will with physical deaths death. We think that we have enough control with the organization and institution that we can just make it happen as opposed to there. There's ah, there's a there has to be a place where we recognize there's nothing that we can do for our loved one. Like maybe they've exhausted. They've tried every medical solution that could possibly be out there in the practice of medicine and there's nothing else that they can do and so we've had to come to a place and just kind of say I give up or I give or we throw our hands up and and you know. We ask why? God sure. But but that we're able to to do that and so so I don't know just it as you were talking about it. Ah, that was the question that kind of popped into my head is what is it from your experience. Do you think.

33:42.14
nathanpile
That does that.

33:42.59
Kevin Shock
I Think what I would answer you have already answered you named it exactly we the physical death we have to recognize at some point that we cannot. We cannot control it. It's it's going to happen.

33:46.93
nathanpile
Okay, okay.

34:00.72
Kevin Shock
No Matter what we all the money in the world. All of our willpower every every medical intervention that can happen is not going to stop it but we do think that way about um, our churches. Our schools. Our traditions. Um, you know we we're always looking away for those things to carry on and we do not do a good job of acknowledging the things that are out of our control.

34:34.98
Kevin Shock
I you know I that that's something I feel like I feel like in the last five years or so that's something that I've really um, had to come to terms with on my own. Ah and I think probably covid helped with that. That um, there are certain things that are simply out of my control and I cannot do anything about them and it doesn't mean that I don't it. It means that I have to adjust it has to I have to adjust what I do and how I live ah in order to.

34:57.81
nathanpile
Um.

35:02.69
nathanpile
M.

35:10.62
Kevin Shock
Either work around those things or work in spite of those things or even embrace those things and move forward. Um, yeah, but ah, we we try to control whatever we can control and and the more that we think. That our own need to control things is for holy purposes the more we're going to dig in our heels. Which at its worst leads to what's happening in Israel and Gaza right now if I bomb them enough I'll be able to control them.

35:38.37
nathanpile
Um, now.

35:43.80
nathanpile
Then Sure sure.

35:54.63
nathanpile
And Ukraine's the same way. Every war is the same wherever there would be violence and war happening. Yeah.

35:58.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and and and Ukraine is not. That's not necessarily for holy reasons. But again I know that you and I have talked about this Nathan and maybe we're going to talk about it even more in in months to come, but.

36:07.56
nathanpile
Great.

36:18.24
Kevin Shock
We you know we talked about the ah the image from Dan Erlander's manna and mercy that pyramids are built up with the people who have the control and the power on top and all of the other classes underneath them and who are the people that ah that uphold the pyramid the military.

36:37.69
nathanpile
Now.

36:37.95
Kevin Shock
And the religious leaders and that's exactly what you see happening in Russia and Ukraine now is that I mean Carol who I I can't remember if he's arch archbishop of the russian orthodox church or whatever he is a firm supporter of Putin.

36:54.95
nathanpile
Well.

36:56.61
Kevin Shock
And say and giving assent to you know this is the right thing to do the the the Holy the holy father is saying that this war is the right thing to do and and the military is there following in step behind.

37:01.82
nathanpile
He's.

37:15.10
Kevin Shock
You know, as though this is some honorable cause. Ah yeah, so it's it's just like Dan erlander prophesied it to be well well it was really he was just really interpreting scripture. So but yeah, but yeah.

37:16.13
nathanpile
Um, but yeah.

37:25.76
nathanpile
No. Right.

37:34.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, you're right? It's not it right? but that war was not ah entered into for necessarily holy reasons. But but somehow religion and holiness has become a part of it. Yeah yeah.

37:47.10
nathanpile
That's become a part of it. Sure.

37:51.63
Kevin Shock
Wow. Okay, this is a this is a long first question reflection Nathan um, maybe we I don't I mean I'm thankful for that it was it was a fine reflection. But um, maybe we move on to the second question. Ok from isaiah 25

37:53.19
nathanpile
It was a long first question. It was a long first question.

38:03.15
nathanpile
No picked up.

38:10.34
Kevin Shock
Ah, Lord, you are my god I will exalt you I will praise your name for you have done wonderful things plans formed of old faithful and sure for you have made the city a heap the fort fortified city a ruin the palace of foreigners is a city. No more. It will never be rebuilt. Therefore strong peoples will glorify you cities of ruthless nations will fear you for you have been a refuge to the poor a refuge to the needy in their distress a shelter from the rainstorm and a shade from the heat when the blast of the ruthless was like a winter rainstorm the noise of foreigners like heat in a dry place. You subdued the heat with the shade of clouds the song of the ruthless was stilled on this mountain. The lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food. A feast of well-aged wines of rich food filled with marrow of well-aged wines strained clear. And he will destroy on this mountain. The shroud that is cast over all peoples the covering that has spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever then the lord god will wipe away the tears from all faces and the disgrace of his people. He will take away from the earth for the Lord has spoken. It will be said on that day. See this is our god we have waited for him so that he might save us. This is the lord for whom we have waited. Let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation Nathan toward what is god calling you in this text.

39:41.37
nathanpile
Um I think it happens there at the end I think it's um, we are to see and we are to wait so we are to be waiting for god.

39:51.20
Kevin Shock
I mean.

39:59.27
nathanpile
But also of all of the things that was set up above about the things that God is going to do. We need to be. We need to be watching for that so that we see when God is is present with us when God is there and so.

40:14.19
Kevin Shock
Um.

40:17.86
nathanpile
And so knowing um in in seeing knowing that God is present when we when we see the miraculous that God has done when we see the what again the phrase up at the top the old faithful and sure when we see. Plans formed of old faithful and sure things that represent our God a God who creates at the beginning a God who sustains God's people and a God who as as you. Gave us so wonderfully a little bit ago who eats up swallows up death who who you know that that's who this God is and so being able a to be patient and to wait and I think we we heard some of that tension. In in that long reflection here that we just had of of that desire for God to Intervene as we try to as as human beings at times control. To control the world or to make it what we think to be holy but instead to be waiting and watching waiting and seeing um a God who intends for.

41:48.77
nathanpile
The most extravagant meal to be given for all and and I say that the most extravagant meal because a well-aged wine that is strained clear I mean they've taken everything out of it. They've taken all of the little ah little. Things that would settle at the bottom of that wine bottle. They've they've strained it all out so they've really done everything they can do to make it the best of the best um that rich food filled with marrow that idea of of the richness of what's in the the bone of our.

42:10.77
Kevin Shock
Um.

42:20.70
Kevin Shock
Um.

42:27.58
nathanpile
Of our essence of the bone of of the the food that we eat. Um, yeah, it's the best of the best and so here we have a God that's going to provide that meal.

42:43.65
nathanpile
But we have to you know we have to recognize that That's who this God is gonna give us the best and is going to take the worst which is death swallowing it up. So how about you? My friend.

42:52.72
Kevin Shock
Oh.

43:01.88
nathanpile
Toward What is God calling you in this text.

43:04.24
Kevin Shock
Yeah I think I think waiting is something that was on my mind as well and I think of waiting um, ah this is you know this is also a ah scripture reading that sometimes we hear in the season of advent. Ah, before Christmas which is all all of those texts are around waiting ah and in the hope that god is going to do something that has never been seen before um, but but I also think um, so waiting in my mind is an active thing. It's not just.

43:18.48
nathanpile
Has used.

43:36.81
Kevin Shock
Not just sitting around twiddling your thumbs. It's also being on watch ah and and so I think about going back to what we were talking about in our last reflection. Um, there's something for me about looking looking for the holy moments The holy things the holy people. Ah.

43:39.15
nathanpile
This is this.

43:55.26
Kevin Shock
That are everywhere around me. Um, that's something that is sometimes is is lacking remember remembering that I don't I don't create What is holy that God creates it and and and my my job at best is to. Look for it to pay attention to it to be aware of it. So.

44:19.78
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah I appreciate that idea that waiting isn't just I'm going to a bus stop and sitting in waiting for the bus to show up but that there's ah, there's an active part for me of.

44:26.23
Kevin Shock
No for.

44:37.15
nathanpile
Of that process.

44:40.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, waiting is more you know the the bus stop. Um there, there's a schedule you can't you pretty much know when the bus is coming. Yeah that that's the difference between Holy waiting and and and worldly waiting. Um.

44:50.11
nathanpile
Um, but you know it's I.

44:55.29
nathanpile
Yeah.

44:58.90
Kevin Shock
You know waiting I think of it more like ah um I don't know like you're like you're waiting to spot a whale or something like that but like like just standing standing on the shore or on the deck of a boat and just.

45:09.39
nathanpile
M.

45:17.25
Kevin Shock
Staring at the ocean because you have a feeling that something's going to pop up there but you never know when and you never know exactly where so you're constantly on watch for it. That's I think that's more that's more like holy waiting. Except I also would say that sometimes you don't have to wait for God As long as you have to wait for a whale because I think God's creating that holiness all around us. Yeah.

45:42.30
nathanpile
Yeah.

45:51.22
nathanpile
Well and and in light of our reflection of death earlier I Think about you know we you say look we're looking for a whale but I also think about that waiting for death when when my grandmother passed away she was on hospice for.

45:51.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

46:10.84
nathanpile
Months. Um, and we put her in the hospice center in August and she passed away in in November ah but I would say pretty much since the time she went in I was in. Weekly and then really come October I was in almost every day because there's a sense of waiting and it wasn't a good waiting. Um and yet it was a powerful waiting.

46:44.10
Kevin Shock
Um.

46:49.37
nathanpile
It was. It was good to be there. It was good to have had the interactions both with her and with the family. Um, but it was like we weren't doing anything like we were waiting like you sat and you sat in chairs and you talked and told stories and.

47:01.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

47:08.27
nathanpile
And shared memories. It was a there was waiting in that too so get to me on that emotional just thinking about it right.

47:24.47
Kevin Shock
Um. You.

47:27.47
nathanpile
Um, but I do think that you waiting isn't and again, that's we've already said that in that waiting there's that was a holy time. Holy moments because of what God is doing in that time and space.

47:47.19
nathanpile
But as you said it was active and engaging and now looking back I'm able to see the holy in the midst of that waiting you know I don't think at the time. Um.

47:57.94
Kevin Shock
M.

48:05.28
nathanpile
You know I'm like oh I'm gonna go to the hospice center because it's a holy moment. You know it was it was it was um, there was other things that drove me at that time but looking back now you can absolutely see.

48:09.20
Kevin Shock
Right? right.

48:20.15
Kevin Shock
Um, sure.

48:23.11
nathanpile
It was the waiting of of God in that way too. So.

48:31.13
Kevin Shock
Um.

48:36.27
nathanpile
All right? Do it a third time.

48:37.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, let's yep yep.

48:46.20
nathanpile
O lord you are my god I will exalt you I will praise your name for you have done wonderful things plans formed of old faithful and sure for you have made a city a heap the fortified city a ruin. The palace of foreigners is a city. No more. It will never be rebuilt therefore strong peoples will glorify you cities of ruthless nations will fear you for you have been a refuge to the poor a refuge to the needy in their distress a shelter from the rainstorm. And a shade from the heat when the blast of the ruthless was like a winter storm winter rainstorm the noise of foreigners like heat in a dry place. You subdued the heat with the shade of clouds the song of the ruthless was. On this mountain. The lord of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food. A feast of well-aged wines of rich food filled with marrow of well-aged wine strained clear and he will destroy on this mountain. The shroud that is cast over all peoples. Covering that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever then the lord god will wipe away the tears from all faces and the disgrace of his people. He will take away from all the earth for the Lord has spoken. It will be said on that day.

50:22.65
nathanpile
See This is our God We have waited for him so that he might save us. This is the lord for whom we have waited. Let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

50:39.48
nathanpile
Kevin what are you waiting for god to do.

50:47.20
Kevin Shock
I was thinking about that question as I was hearing you read again and I think that it's um, it's easy to just ah say you're waiting for God to do something external and I guess my answer is external but I'm I'm waiting for I'm waiting for God to. Ah, change the hearts of all people my own included like the feast is already there right before us. The mountain is already Holy God has already swallowed up death.

51:23.26
Kevin Shock
All of the external things that we want that we human beings have wanted God to do God has already done. The only thing preventing us from embracing it fully is that we are too stuck on ourselves.

51:42.60
Kevin Shock
And so yeah, so you know if that's if there's 1 other thing that god has to do that's it in my mind change our hearts turn our hearts to you into one another oh lord and ah. And everything that you have done will be made clear.

51:59.40
nathanpile
E.

52:08.46
nathanpile
You Well in yours yours is yours as yours as always yours is very um, um, it's well um, voice. It's all it's well articulated. Um, ah.

52:09.68
Kevin Shock
That's my reflection What about what? but but.

52:26.91
nathanpile
What are you waiting for God to do if I were to respond to that I think it's I would echo what you're saying um but I would put it as let's just get around to it already God my impatience. Ah so.

52:42.69
Kevin Shock
Um, oh I Oh no I mean I'm and I'm impatient about it too. Yes, for sure. Yeah.

52:46.79
nathanpile
Yeah, so I know you are but but um, the what are you waiting for God to do is is is just as you say it's is helping to change all of our hearts. Um, and.

53:05.73
nathanpile
Again, Um, ah, changing my heart specifically and so for me, there's always ah, a level of waiting you know I get impatient I'm not a very patient person. Um, and so waiting for God to to do this thing of of ah which I believe wholeheartedly is about trying to gather all peoples of all nations together God is just. So patient in trying to do that and to make that happen. Um, that for me, um, my my the thing I'm waiting for God to do is is to make a hat you know make it happen if.

53:42.69
Kevin Shock
Oh.

53:59.96
nathanpile
And and this gets us into theological conversation of pieces. But you know why? Why hasn't God done. It. Ah you know people will say Well, there's the ah you know God is free. There's free will and God wants us. To engage in that process for ourselves not just in.. It's love isn't free if it's forced upon us Essentially so I can't love my neighbor if God just says love your neighbor if God has made it law. Ah.

54:32.84
Kevin Shock
Well if if God forces your hand to love your neighbor. Yeah, right now right.

54:37.63
nathanpile
Right? It's not it's not I haven't I haven't done that I I've been forced out of out of out of fear to do it or for some other reason. Maybe it's fear. But. That's the one that's kind of the most current today that I think that we could grasp onto. But but we're to choose love to to to see the example of god's love for the world. God's.

55:01.26
Kevin Shock
Um.

55:15.32
nathanpile
Graciousness of providing a rich meal and that then we're to to to mirror that in our lives The you know. I Don't want I want I want it to be that way the the way that as a lutheran Christian I see the world I want it to be that that we change our hearts and so I would say again, you are you were far more articulate being able to kind of say it succinctly. The. That I'm waiting for the same thing. My response would just be much more of let's just let's go God make it happen already because of my own impatience with God bringing us all along in that process. So.

56:19.27
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and ah yeah I mean I I So it's just it's just me wanting the work to be done I I I think that God is I think that God is in process I you know I think that God is doing that. Um, but.

56:27.82
nathanpile
Um, yeah, oh absolutely. Absolutely.

56:33.31
Kevin Shock
You know you just get these. You get these ah points in life where you're looking at the way of the world and you're thinking Oh my gosh We are so far from it and I trust that God is still you know, whatever terminology you want to use. Um.

56:53.42
Kevin Shock
Trying to shake the you know me trying to fashion our hearts of stone back into hearts of flesh. Um I trust that god is doing that. But yeah, no I you you're right I mean I think you're right Nathan I'm just get it done already god it's.

57:10.35
nathanpile
Well and and from my biological um my roots Ge ah ah Ge Geology Roots I think one of the pieces you know we feel like we're close but at the same time.

57:11.95
Kevin Shock
That's how I feel.

57:28.82
nathanpile
There's ah also big seismic things that have to happen for us to get closer to that thing that God is really calling us towards um and so Earthquakes need to occur to make those big adjustments.

57:31.18
Kevin Shock
Sure.

57:38.95
Kevin Shock
Um.

57:46.89
nathanpile
And so it feels like we're farther away than ever. Um and yet there's there's a part of me that that's still hopeful that that with with Big. Um. With big structural earthquakes where um I don't want to say bad things but where where death where death and destruction is going to be a part of it. New life is going to come out of it. Um.

58:13.30
Kevin Shock
No.

58:24.32
nathanpile
As a part ah of of that those big earthquakes which will then get us closer I think you know when we say love all people um love all nations. Yeah again.

58:35.30
Kevin Shock
O.

58:41.37
nathanpile
If you look at our world. We're We're not very close to that if you're watching the news article headlines. Yeah, so there there has to be big things even even for us in the Western world that feels like we're pretty peaceful and we're pretty that.

58:47.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

58:59.46
nathanpile
People have their space in place. We make all kinds of of judgments and accusations still against one another. Um, and so there's there's still some shifting that has to occur. Ah.

59:18.55
nathanpile
For God's vision to come into to come into place.

59:23.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah I think and I I agree with you I think that the the danger is when ah people who are in charge of things or even people who aren't in charge of things. Ah think that it's up to them to create the earthquakes that are going to disrupt the things that you know, um.

59:37.70
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah up, go.

59:41.51
Kevin Shock
Ah, like ah like fire missiles. Um, but um, yeah, but the other thing too is that um I think that I don't think that the earthquakes have to be tragic things or bad things. Ah.

59:43.67
nathanpile
Right.

59:55.41
nathanpile
No, no, no, no, no.

59:58.80
Kevin Shock
But but they will be uncomfortable things for those of us who want to maintain control and are not interested in having our hearts change at all. Yeah, so I guess I guess they they probably feel bad in that.

01:00:08.51
nathanpile
Yeah.

01:00:16.80
Kevin Shock
In that scenario but I don't yeah yeah, well anyway, any anything else. Ah anything else to add Nathan has been a pretty heavy ah episode. But I'm thankful thankful for the conversation.

01:00:28.64
nathanpile
It has been that has been yeah, thankful for the conversation. Yeah.

01:00:35.93
Kevin Shock
All right? Some additional texts. Oh let's talk about people doing their own thing. Ah exodus 30 chapter 32 versus 1 through 14 ah, the people make a golden calf. Um, that's always a fun one to read ah psalm. One zero six verses 1 through 6 and 19 through 23 ah prayer remember your people o lord ah psalm 23 um is appointed for this week in ah in conjunction with this isaiah 25 reading. The lord is my shepherd. Ah, from philippians chapter 4 verses 1 through 9 rejoice in the lord always and another difficult reading boy Jesus really says some hard things towards the end of Matthew's Gospel ah Matthew 22 1 through 14 a parable of a wedding banquet.

01:01:23.51
nathanpile
And.

01:01:30.24
Kevin Shock
And a ruthless king so we hope that um we hope that you've had some ah good reflections listening to this podcast reading through the scripture. Um, and we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:01:44.51
nathanpile
And peace.