Episode 26: Isaiah 6:1-8

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
What prevents you from speaking the word of God?

Additional texts:
Psalm 29
Romans 8:12-17
John 3:1-17

Transcript

00:02.35
Kevin Shock
Whom shall I send and who will go for us I don't know where I'm going with that. But that's going to be in our reading today as we tend together. Um, and it seems like um, almost like god ah god perhaps is asking the question who. Will tend so let's be those people. Ah I'm probably just reading too much into it. You can you as you listeners as Nathan as you and I discuss and as the listeners discuss and think about things that we're saying.

00:18.94
nathanpile
Who will tend.

00:36.81
Kevin Shock
They can decide whether god is actually saying that or not anyway, it's a good time to tend and we're looking today at Isaiah chapter 6 verses 1 through 8 Um and the translation we're using is the new revised standard version updated edition the n r s v u e.

00:56.54
Kevin Shock
That is available on biblegateway.com or the biblegateway app or you can use whatever bible or app is easiest for you to use as you follow along and engage this text with us are 3 questions for this week what word phrase or image strikes you in this text toward. What is god calling you in this text and what prevents you from speaking the word of god.

01:27.28
nathanpile
Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households white and in our late 40 s college and seminary educated we work in the lutheran church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania all of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. But none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with god and one another so we want to know what you hear and think. From your life experience Isaiah the sixth chapter verses 1 through 8 and the year of that King Uzziah Died I saw the lord sitting on a throne high and lofty. And the hem of his robe filled the temple seraphs were in attendance above him. Each had 6 wings with 2 they covered their faces with 2 they covered their feet and with two they flew and one called. To another and said holy holy holy is the lord of hosts the whole earth is full of his glory. The pivots on the thresholds shook at the voices of those who called and the house filled with smoke and I said.

02:56.20
nathanpile
Woe is me I am lost for I am a man of unclean lips and I live among a people of unclean lips yet my eyes have seen the King the lord of hosts then one of the seraphs flew to me. Holding a live coal which had been taken from the altar with a pair of tongs the seraph touched my mouth with it and said now that this has touched your lips your guilt has departed and your sin is blotted out. Then I heard the voice of the lord saying whom shall I send and who will go for us and I said here am I send me.

03:49.41
nathanpile
If you're meeting with a group you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own Kevin since we're gathered together. Um, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text.

04:04.54
Kevin Shock
Ah, it's it's the hem of the robe filling the temple and I and I really don't have any like I don't have any deep meaning for why that strikes me. But. I do love that image I I love the image of god um, well god reigning above all things. But I also love the image of um I think it brings to mind for me. The the woman who touches the hem of Jesus's robe and is healed. Um, so it's definitely a ah mixture of images from scripture. Um. There's just something about being engulfed surrounded in the in the hem of god's robe that um brings to mind for me healing and safety and.

05:16.44
Kevin Shock
Belonging.

05:16.95
nathanpile
Hmm, it's interesting.

05:21.13
Kevin Shock
It it I mean I guess we would like we literally in English use that phrase being hemmed in and and that's this to me is a is a very positive connotation of being hemmed in.

05:28.66
nathanpile
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

05:38.97
Kevin Shock
That Isaiah even even though Isaiah is feels himself to be unworthy and unclean and and his people are unclean the the hem of the robe of the lord is still within the temple and. And providing shelter. Um to the people even though they need even though they need transformation even though they need a word to redeem them. The god is still present.

06:15.31
Kevin Shock
Providing shelter for them.

06:19.62
nathanpile
Well and that's ah, that's an that idea of being hemmed in um, again I I hear everything that you're saying in the makes complete sense that that idea that we're that god is is protecting us again. It gives that I that that image from. From Jesus talking about a mother hen kind of protecting her her her chicks that that idea that that god's robe keeps us keeps us protected. You know the you know clothing in in ways protects us from the the environment that we're.

06:57.10
nathanpile
That we live in kind of a thing so that idea um when when you started I thought you were gonna go well at least my mind when you started my mind went to God is much bigger than our world because just the hem.

07:13.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

07:16.47
nathanpile
Just the hem of it is God is just God's hem is fits in our big temple here you know, kind of a thing and so that idea that God is bigger than but I like your your version is much more intimate care caregiving kind of ah.

07:21.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

07:32.56
nathanpile
An interpretation which I like that.

07:34.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah I mean there is a sense of the the Largesse of god in this in this reading in that image. Um, and I do definitely I mean when I picture that in my head that is a part of it. You know like standing in the temple. Cannot see all of who god is you know you can't see the entire holy presence. Um, but but there is for me my yeah, my mind and my spirit then go right? to? This is a.

08:09.24
Kevin Shock
This is a protective kind of covering this is ah a protective presence and I think that the other thing um sometimes I feel like I feel like I've preached on this lately. But um I think we get a lot. Ah we kind of get stuck in the notion perhaps that. Um.

08:27.25
nathanpile
That.

08:27.89
Kevin Shock
God protects us because God um loves us which I think is true. Ah, but then I think sometimes as human beings we we take the further tact to say and God loves us because we are like we've earned it.

08:47.30
Kevin Shock
We're we're worthy of being loved. Um and and we are worthy of being loved but not because of who we are because of who God is and um, so for me I The thing that I've been thinking a lot about lately is that protection is um.

08:52.62
nathanpile
God is sure.

09:05.20
Kevin Shock
Is not just for the people who um, who who need that more vulnerable people it is for them. It's not just for people who please God which I think is a. Relatively low lower number than what we tend to think it is anyway. Um, but it's also protection is needed in order for God to transform us. Um, protection is also for the people who um, perhaps even are opposed to god.

09:39.45
Kevin Shock
Think that God would protect people who are opposed to God ah doesn't intuitively make sense but in order for God to transform them. They need to have some kind of protection and and for me the the real life though I haven't been through it personally.

09:58.41
Kevin Shock
Ah, a real life example of that perhaps is like somebody going to rehab that they need they go to Rehab because they need to change their entire way of living they they have to reorient themselves or be reoriented. Ah you know to to. To break free from addiction or or to live to live with the addiction that they know that they have but in order to do that. They have to be in a place where they know that their needs are going to be taken care of.

10:31.53
Kevin Shock
Like they have to be in a place I think maybe they don't have to be but it but perhaps it's more successful I don't know I think it would be helpful to be in a place where you know you're going to have clean sheets and clean towels. You're going to have a place to put your head down at night you're going to have meals. You're going to have. People who are guiding you through therapy counseling. Whatever it might be You're going to have other people who are going through the same thing um to help you like ah like I think this network of support needs to be in place in order for your life to be transformed. And I think that that's the case with um I think that's the case with with human beings and the ah the reality of sin and repentance and all of that kind of stuff I think I think repentance comes better for people who maybe ah to borrow phrase from the.

11:25.53
Kevin Shock
Recovery community um people who have hit rock bottom but also have some kind of shelter have a place where they feel like they're protected and can do this transformation. Um.

11:43.18
Kevin Shock
I Don't know I might I might be projecting a little bit there but I I theologically I have been thinking a lot and I think preaching too about how God provides protection not just. Because we're vulnerable but also in order that our lives may be changed.

12:06.99
nathanpile
Well and I love that Um, the image of your your reflection in that even as I think about um as I make changes in my own life to to strive to be. Um, to strive in my relationship with God and in my relationship with other human beings that there are things about my life that I need to um blinders you might say are scales that are on my eyes that keep me from seeing certain things.

12:43.23
nathanpile
And so this idea that I too need protection as I'm striving to live in God's ways and recognizing that God God provides that freely unconditionally because of who God is.

13:03.38
nathanpile
Well earlier today. 1 of our neighbors stopped in and we were talking about the the the fracture of the United Methodist Church ah he's a member of of the United Methodist Church and so was sharing his his um his heartbrokenness about that fracture but also in in some ways as he admitted some of his own judgments and biases about that. Um.

13:38.98
nathanpile
And and as we were talking. You know we we talked a little bit about this idea that that um, that in our own judgment. Yeah, we need God's protection in ways um to help free us from from our own judgment. Help free us from the things that that the structures that are that our culture that our society he he's from a generation a little bit older than mine and so that you know he recognizes that that that's part of what colors his worldview is. Having grown up when he grew up. Um, as a part of that but like they're they're because it makes us vulnerable I Think that's the thing that your your reflection kind of brings up for me is is for us to to make those changes. To our the way that we look at the world the way our lens on the World. We become vulnerable because we've we've essentially taken some major blocks out of out of the foundation of our system that we look at the world and so being able to know that we have God's protection in the midst of that.

14:53.67
nathanpile
Um, not that we not to not that we well Well I think we we we need to recognize that that that feeling vulnerable makes us like we don't like that and I don't like that I don't like to make myself vulnerable um to others very often and so being able to.

15:13.34
nathanpile
To be vulnerable and trust that God is there to um to hem me in as I rebuild what God is is calling me to rebuild to to rebuild a better vision of of the creation that God has made and and calls me to live into. Um, that I can also recognize and rely on that God is there that God is is hemming me in is is you know I think that's a powerful image for us um to to in some ways it gives us some grace to say the way I look at the world is wrong right now.

15:51.88
nathanpile
Help me God look at the world in a better way. No so.

15:54.94
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, yeah, and and what you say there makes me think just quickly. Um maybe vulnerability is necessary in order for us to be transformed. Um, and.

16:03.69
nathanpile
Oh I Absolutely think it's true. Yes, yes.

16:09.28
Kevin Shock
And so because I kind of said before there are people who need protection because they're vulnerable and I guess I would add a caveat there that there there are people who are made vulnerable by Evil forces in the world there. There are people who are made vulnerable not because they need to change but because.

16:28.89
Kevin Shock
The world oppresses them and then there are people who um through one way or another through their own will or or through outside circumstances need to become vulnerable in order that they might be transformed. Um, both both scenarios I think lead.

16:47.69
nathanpile
Yes.

16:47.75
Kevin Shock
To healing and it and and the healing may look different but it still is it still involves God's God's protection God's provision and God's healing.

17:08.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, anyway, that's that's probably a philosophical thought that I could ah I could I could think on and riff on for a little while longer but I would like to hear what you.

17:22.45
Kevin Shock
Are bringing to this first question in what word phrase or image strikes you.

17:27.90
nathanpile
My word is us down in that eighth verse where the master or the Lord's voice says whom shall I send and who will go for us. Um.

17:31.30
Kevin Shock
Oh.

17:39.54
Kevin Shock
Us.

17:44.43
nathanpile
Um, that idea that um, that can in ancient and in the early church. There was a ah theological wrestling with um God being one and yet. In 3 persons and what does that look like and does that mean that there's 3 different gods. Um and yet in time from time to time in the old testament. We get this plural pronoun for God This isn't the only place that that occurs but that idea that. Um, again, it goes back to that idea of of only a hem fits into the fits into the the temple which would have been huge. The temple would have been a huge space. Um here God is God is bigger than um.

18:42.27
nathanpile
Then our preconceived notions of of of of he god is bigger than our preconceived notions of of 1 person. Um that god has found different ways to interact in.

19:02.70
nathanpile
Um, in creation and that those those different persons um have different different natures different different um gifts and characteristics. And and so the the best way to describe. Um them here is us. Um you know and and you know I'm well I don't want to. That's so that's where.

19:36.82
nathanpile
Like that word us stuck out to me here in in the reading as I as I said that word us again. Um I had I had this this passage has lots of things to kind of question and look at um, but that word us at the end was the thing that kind of caught me that that. Got my my mind fascinated on. Oh well, what's God trying to say to us here with that idea of who God is that again our that our our image of who God is our preconceived the the names that we put on God the. Box that we um that we make and and place got in you know God does these things that I think if we're paying attention say your box isn't big enough for me.

20:31.66
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, your your reflection There takes me back to to my the image that I was talking about and um and it just brings to mind for me that we. We might in the temple see the hem of the robe of God and off of that, construct the rest of the picture. We cannot see in our own mind to assume who God is and and and I think that what you say points to the. Points to the the idea in that image that we can't possibly see the wholeness of God just by what we perceive before us. Um that God is so much bigger than that and and God God is all of our.

21:12.60
nathanpile
Yeah.

21:26.29
Kevin Shock
Metaphors for god and so much more and there there you know there is um I I mean I I believe and and and and supported in this belief by both Hebrew scripture and the new testament that god is one. Um. But that one is so much more than what I can imagine and and 1 way that we that that followers of Christ talk about the one the the largeness of the the god who is 1 is is that we talk about god is one in 3 persons. Um, because that helps us to explain that god is so much more than like one little box as you said 1 little box that we can put god in or even 1 large temple that we can put god in um. God is more than that so yeah that I appreciate that hearing what captured your attention and yeah and and it makes it makes a lot of sense to me what you said and is a good thing to keep in mind.

22:41.54
nathanpile
Great when we do this a second time.

22:42.62
Kevin Shock
All right? Yeah, we'll look at it a second time from Isaiah chapter six in the year that king Uzziah died I saw the lord sitting on a throne high and lofty and the hem of his robe filled the temple seraphs were in attendance above him. Each had 6 wings. With 2 they covered their faces and with 2 they covered their feet and with two they flew and one called to another and said holy holy holy is the lord of hosts the whole earth is full of his glory. The pivots on the thresholds shook at the voices of those who called and the house filled with smoke. And I said woe is me I am lost for I am a man of unclean lips and I live among a people of unclean lips yet my eyes have seen the king the lord of hosts then one of the seraphs flew to me holding a live coal that had been taken from the altar with a pair of tongs. The seraph touched my mouth with it and said now that this has touched your lips your guilt has departed and your sin is blotted out then I heard the voice of the lord saying whom shall I send and who will go for us and I said here am I send me. Nathan toward what is god calling you in this text.

24:10.87
nathanpile
Um, um.

24:16.15
nathanpile
Well that there's there's there's no doubt um that that I feel called to to go I was trying to. Think about how the rest of this passage has been built um and to see if there was anything else that that felt um as strong as that with with this idea of the seraphs and um, they're singing of praise to God. Um, and the and and the you know the the smoke and the voices and all of those pieces. Um, but I don't think there's anything that I feel.

25:07.76
nathanpile
Called more to um than that idea to to go um and to go to go where God God calls where God sends. Um and what that looks like. So. There's not um because I was curious. Ah as the author as as as Isaiah kind of built this the witness of this moment. Um were there other things that that I personally felt called to and um.

25:46.46
nathanpile
I didn't I didn't feel that um, not that being called to go isn't a big deal because to go means you know where we're to go where god calls is is a bit mysterious. A bit of a um wanderer around the wilderness living in the gray. Um, it's not always ah, a clear flashing yellow sign that says go this way Nathan um, but having an openness to go.

26:17.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

26:22.80
nathanpile
Um, where sent is a um.

26:31.73
nathanpile
Well, it's ah that's a hard piece like I think back to seminary and I can recall hmmming and hawing about when you when you finish seminary the the way that they used to assign us as as pastors. Was that if you said that you were open to anywhere in the church. You could truly be called to anywhere in the United States um to a church now you could put you could say well I'm interested in these synods specifically or these regions of the United States and they.

27:06.10
Kevin Shock
And.

27:08.93
nathanpile
Typically took that into account the the bishops that did the the do that assignment process. Um that they considered putting you in those in those geographic areas. Um and you could absolutely restrict and say well I have to be. Here because of work and that kind of stuff I didn't have a reason to completely restrict because I was unmarried as I came out of Seminary. Um, or at least when I filled out my paperwork to come out of seminary I was not Married. Um I Guess which should be the way that I say that.

27:41.37
Kevin Shock
Ah, yeah, when you filled out your paperwork then think and things changed.

27:43.95
nathanpile
It's when I filled out my paperwork because by the time I because by the time I left somewhere I was married but um, but I had already filled my paper work. Um, ah, but that I but you know that part of of filling out the paperwork.

28:02.46
nathanpile
Like my own mind I was like how I am going to put down 3 sentences because I'm I'm not positive I'm willing to go anywhere. Um, you know and stories fly around the seminary when you're in seminary of like well there's a opening in Noam Alaska you know, kind of a thing and you're like.

28:19.10
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

28:21.83
nathanpile
But do I am I really truly open to go to Noam Alaska um, and out of fear I probably said no no I don't know I'm not willing to go to Noam Alaska and hence the idea of putting 3 in it seemed a little bit more.

28:30.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

28:39.31
nathanpile
Like I had a little bit of say I had a little bit of control about where I might end up um, kind of a thing and so so but again that idea of being called to go. You know what I wasn't I wasn't willing to go anywhere I was willing to go.

28:58.61
nathanpile
With these parameters. Ah so that's a hard that's a hard thing to in this passage to hear that you know here I am send me um or who whom shall I send and who will go for us. Um, you know even I put parameters on God of saying.

28:59.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

29:16.46
nathanpile
Yes, god I'm willing to go as long as it's in Pennsylvania ah, um, and so that that I that piece of being able to truly trust um, what it means to go.

29:21.72
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah.

29:32.75
nathanpile
You know I wanted to be able to say yes I'm open to wherever the church needs me to go but when it came down to it when it came down to black and white on an application I I chickened out I guess and said Pennsylvania please.

29:49.90
nathanpile
Um, still willing to go just anywhere in Pennsylvania. So.

29:55.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah I don't Well yeah and I don't I don't think that that means ah I don't think that that means you weren't faithful to the call that you were receiving. Um, yeah.

30:05.13
nathanpile
Sure sure Yeah, absolutely and I absolutely articulated it that way in that I felt called to the people where I had grown up was was absolutely you know and that in that sense I felt call that was ah absolutely a true call.

30:12.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well.

30:20.74
nathanpile
But at times you can look back and say well you know could the people of no, no, Noam Alaska benefited from my call to be with them. Yeah, maybe but again I wasn't really, but maybe not so so you know so.

30:30.94
Kevin Shock
Maybe yeah well I mean lest you lest you extrapolate the lesson the lesson too far. Um Isaiah served among the people that he knew he did not go to Noam Alaska.

30:42.87
nathanpile
That's true. That's true. Yes.

30:48.21
nathanpile
Ah, no Noam Alaska really wasn't there. Well there was probably some kind of a town or something there but maybe not no, it definitely would oh I know that there's no, people in them I mean like there wasn't Alaska when Isaiah was around. That's what I'm saying.

30:48.55
Kevin Shock
So. Oh I know there there there are Lutherans in Noam Alaska I Do know that.

31:02.58
Kevin Shock
Over right? No I know all all I mean is I know I was I was just using your town. But what your example but um, right? But ah Isaiah stayed among the people that he knew. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:05.52
nathanpile
That's all I would say.

31:12.92
nathanpile
Right? The the people that he know sure. Absolutely.

31:20.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um, my my answer to the second question is maybe ah also about the people that Isaiah knew I am I'm really taken aback by the.

31:38.48
Kevin Shock
By what he says um when ah when he finally gets a chance to speak after the seraphs had ah kind of said their thing or announced themselves in the presence of the lord in the temple. Um. Where he says woe is me I am lost for I am a man of unclean lips and I live among a people of unclean lips yet my eyes have seen the King the lord of hosts. Um there I don't know there's something in that there's something in that declaration there that.

32:16.38
Kevin Shock
Makes me feel like um, it's good for me in my life and my ministry to um, recognize that I am living among a people of unclean lips and. Also that I am one of them that that it's it's more than just I you know? Well I'm I'm a pastor so you know I'm better than all these people which I don't think anyone ah of us explicitly says ah do think and I don't even think you need to be a pastor to.

32:53.44
Kevin Shock
Give into that um temptation to think that you're better than somebody else. Um I think that's a human thing but it it's it's helpful for me to remember that. Um.

33:10.69
Kevin Shock
That that my my sin is counted also among the sins of the people that I am called to serve and and the people around me. Um, there's there's nothing. There's nothing of my own doing that. Separates my my righteousness from their righteousness or my worthiness from their worthiness I'm I'm one of them and um and and yet my eyes have seen the King the lord of hosts.

33:50.40
Kevin Shock
God is God is there in the midst with all of us. Um, not not just me because I've done something to earn it. But um, but all of the all of us who have unclean lips and are in need of that that healing that um, that restoration. That Isaiah talks about so much in his in his writings. Um, we're all in need of that myself included. So yeah.

34:12.91
nathanpile
No.

34:25.40
nathanpile
Um, no I appreciate I appreciate that because it is a a humbling thing to be God Servant Um, and and I say that first as a servant of God not as a pastor like.

34:42.34
nathanpile
We're all called to be servants of God Um, and so that idea of of being a servant of God there there is that recognition of I'm not any different than anyone else of these people that I'm among.

35:00.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

35:01.63
nathanpile
That I'm with um, um, it's humbling um to to to be called to to to serve among others among among other Christians to be. Seen as a leader but recognizing that it's ah again more about what God is doing than it is about what I'm doing or what what I have done.

35:39.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

35:42.60
nathanpile
All right? Let's use the third time oop there we go.

35:44.73
Kevin Shock
Okay.

35:53.19
nathanpile
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw the lord sitting on a throne high and lofty and the hem of his robe filled the temple seraphs were in attendance above him. Each had 6 wings with 2 they covered their faces and with 2 they covered their feet and with two they flew and one called to another and said holy holy holy is the lord of hosts the holy earth the whole earth is full of his glory. The pivots on the thresholds shook at the voices of those who called and the house filled with smoke and I said woe to me I am lost for I am a man of unclean lips and I live among a people of unclean lips yet my eyes have seen the king. The lord of hosts then one of the seraphs flew to me holding a live coal that had been taken from the altar with a pair of tongs the seraph touched my mouth with it and said now that this has touched your lips your guilt. Has departed and your sin is blotted out then I heard the voice of the lord saying whom shall I send and who will go for us and I said here am I send me.

37:26.50
nathanpile
Ah, Kevin what prevents you from speaking the word of god.

37:34.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah I Um this is a I guess the the more I think about this question the more I just want to answer it with like the um that this is this is the hypothetical question and I should just say. Nothing Um, it's it sounds to me the more that I hear it read it sounds to me like the question that we engaged a couple of episodes ago with the Ethiopian eunuch what is to prevent me from being baptized. Ah, ah, um, but I I.

38:11.88
Kevin Shock
That's not where my mind was whenever I was first thinking about the question I I think that um, there might be a couple of things one that there could be 2 ways for me to think about it one is that I ah can feel like I'm prevented. Um, because I'm not either I'm not worthy or I don't know the word of god well enough and and and what I mean by the word of god is not scripture necessarily but I it I can't I can't point easily to what.

38:50.50
Kevin Shock
God is saying to us in this day and age I'm not saying that That's true. But I'm saying if there were something to prevent me. It would be that I think the other the other side of the coin that I can look at in this question is um.

39:09.46
Kevin Shock
There There are things that don't necessarily prevent me from speaking but they do prevent me from um, being clear with the word of God and not my own words and my own. Thoughts and my own opinions about things. Ah, and so what? what prevents me from doing that is a sense that I am a man of clean lips who resides among a people of unclean lips. Um, which is a which is a.

39:44.57
Kevin Shock
Metaphorical way of saying Self-righteousness Self-righteousness prevents me from speaking the word of God It doesn't prevent me from speaking but it does it. It precludes me from using the word of God whenever I am speaking because I'm too interested in my own word.

39:45.83
nathanpile
Hmm Yeah yeah.

40:03.53
Kevin Shock
In my own wisdom. Um, and so that's what can get me in trouble. Um, those are yeah those are 2 different directions that I kind of could take with that question one that I don't feel like I'm worthy enough I don't know enough and the other one is that I I guess on the other end of the.

40:22.65
Kevin Shock
Spectrum is um I think I know it all and so but so I'm ah I'm happy to tell other people. Um, but it it just may not be the word of God whenever I tell them So ah yeah, what.

40:34.87
nathanpile
Yeah, well and and I would like just to respond to what you're saying and and in absolutely agree that second piece is. as I as I heard the question that that second part of it for you of that. Um, that self-righteousness ah that that we that that I can feel and um.

41:10.54
nathanpile
Didn't it be a part of of my proclamation. Absolutely I think that can get in my own way. Um I'm I'm fairly Opinionated. You know that about me as my friend that that I have opinions about those things and and they're strong opinions and um or Beliefs. Values. Ah, and when I think I'm right I I I try to be open to to things but my Self-righteousness um can be kryptonite for me. And and to be absolutely fair and honest politics is one of those areas. Yeah like like I'm not I'm not saying that I agree with the whole platform of the democratic party. But.

42:02.97
nathanpile
It is more of a platform that I agree with than the Republican party most of the time. Um, and so I can be quite indignant sometimes um in my in my judgment in my self-righteousness about well you're just wrong and.

42:20.32
nathanpile
And recognizing that even though I know if if I'm if I'm if I'm calm cool and collected that we all need to live a little bit more in the middle than we do on on the the extremes of of any issue of any topic. Um. Finding Compromise. Um, as we live together now I say that but there's also being some some realities of of truth like there's There's not a lot of compromise around murder like it's a pretty clear cut issue.

42:56.26
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, yeah.

42:58.18
nathanpile
Um, but places where there can be more of a spectrum being open to hearing all sides. Um I think my self-righteousness absolutely can get in my in the way of speaking God's word because I I. Me thinking I'm right gets in the way of of speaking God's word. Um, and so how how again how do I control myself. Um, in the midst of that. Um.

43:35.23
nathanpile
In in the midst of of those emotions that kind of well up inside of me and that you know goes back to my conversation with my neighbor here earlier today of of being able to kind of sit and listen to his points yet at the same time be able to maybe plant some seeds because if I just kind of went at him. From the opposite side he was' it was just gonna become a tug of war match right? like it was just gonna become whos whose will is is so being able to kind of just listen and and say at some points I disagree or have you thought about this um or what do you make of that.

43:57.88
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah.

44:15.40
nathanpile
Kind of you know to to plant to plant some seeds that might cause him in his own reflection to to be more open to things and this is something I appreciate about this neighbor, we've had. We've had these conversations for years since I've been here he usually comes in to get something that he. That he that he needs from the camp office and when he does he usually comes with something he calls it bible study Hey, it's time to have bible study pastor and so then he comes back and we have we have bible study for a little bit. Um, but how do we?? um. How do we? How how do I have that conversation and and and help God's word. Um, encounter this individual without my own self-righteousness getting in the way of that and and those are harder and those are hard conversations I find.

45:10.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:11.42
nathanpile
Um, though I have found a way with this with this individual to be able to do that I can also think of 2 or 3 other neighbors that might show up and my self-righteousness. Ah it would be harder for me to hold it into check. Ah, um, and so um.

45:22.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

45:27.70
nathanpile
You know? So absolutely I think as I answered this as I thought about this question. Absolutely the thing that prevents me from speaking the word of God most often is myself it is It is me that gets in the way of that and and for both of the reasons that you've highlighted. Um I would say that.

45:35.99
Kevin Shock
And and and.

45:46.77
nathanpile
Um, my self-conscious my Self-righteousness piece is probably a stronger stronger side of the coin. Um for me at times of the thing that gets in in the way though, there are also times that um.

46:03.77
nathanpile
Well and I might even say it's a 3 sided coin because there's even sometimes as you were as I was thinking about this question of like like in polite company to try not to bring up conflict you know to kind of. Put it back in somebody's face. There are times that that prevents me from doing that and and typically that would be somebody that would be older for me. Um, ah, but sometimes though that that idea of.

46:42.88
nathanpile
Culturally trying to be kind. Maybe not kind and nice or or um, but that that third piece sometimes would I would say I allow that to get in the way of speaking the word of god. Because I feel like well maybe this person just isn't yet ready to hear whatever it was that I was going to say something about the conversation that we're having or something that they've said doesn't feel like it's the right time to push back and so besides my own my own self-doubt.

47:11.45
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

47:22.37
nathanpile
My own self-righteousness. Um, um, that's third part portion portion of of me again. This is all dealing with me preventing myself from actually speaking the word of god um, it would be something that I've learned. Or believe that I've learned as a nicety of the world that I shouldn't do this at this time and so so so maybe to kind of keep them self-righteous self-doubt and self-learned maybe might be the 3 things that I would say but all of them have to deal with my with me getting in the way of.

47:45.59
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah.

47:58.45
nathanpile
Doing that thing.

48:03.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that I'm I'm interested in thinking more about that last piece that you talk about um and and the kind of riding The. Balance between.

48:21.40
Kevin Shock
With with holding or holding back in conversation for the sake of peace in relationships. Um, but with with balancing that with um, the.

48:38.25
Kevin Shock
The the urge to to speak righteousness into the world. Not our own righteousness. But God's righteousness. Yeah, um, and I think that's a I I can I can relate to that that balance. Um, yeah, and and and.

48:40.44
nathanpile
Right? But God's right? Yeah, no.

48:58.14
Kevin Shock
Right? because a question that I think about too is if I'm am am I withholding saying something um for the sake of of preserving relationship or am I withholding saying something because it will keep the peace which may not be. Which is pseudo relationship. Not real relationship. Um, or am I withholding saying something. Um, well, there was a third thing that I thought of and that had been ah, an escape to me. But. I think that there can be yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a balance. It's something. It's something that I struggle with that maintaining that balance.

49:51.52
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, so anyway.

49:58.15
nathanpile
So some additional texts Kevin.

50:02.81
Kevin Shock
Yes, am I The additional text person this time I am I am sorry I was waiting for you to do the additional text and then I for yes because I had the reading up in front of me and not the ah not the prep sheet that we use okay additional text. Um.

50:19.53
Kevin Shock
Related to our reading for this week which is um which is the what what is the date on this. The May twentieth is when this is dropping so this is um, this is for what we call? Yeah, what we call in our tradition trinity Sunday.

50:30.40
nathanpile
Be the Twenty sixth of may.

50:38.12
Kevin Shock
Um, so there there you go with your us Nathan ah, perhaps that's part of the yeah we have? yeah ah so anyway, some additional text to consider psalm 29 worship the lord and the beauty of holiness.

50:42.90
nathanpile
Yeah, there it is maybe that's part of the reason it's there. Yeah.

50:56.20
Kevin Shock
Ah, romans chapter 8 verses 12 through 17 is about living by the spirit and John 3 1 through 17 some very famous verses at the end of that reading ah entering the reign of god through water and the spirit this is Jesus's

51:13.17
Kevin Shock
Late night interaction with ah the the scribe the Pharisee Nicodemus um and the famous John 3 16 and and 17 verses. So ah Nathan I as always I appreciate your reflections and ah and.

51:32.87
Kevin Shock
Friends who are listening I hope that our reflections helped to fuel your own reflections on this text and ah and as always we invite you to share your reflections with us via social media or email that you'll hear about in just a second on this podcast. Ah. And also as always we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

51:56.75
nathanpile
And peace.