Episode 36: Psalm 78:23-29

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How do you know what satisfies you?

Additional texts:
Exodus 16:2-4, 9-15
Ephesians 4:1-16
John 6:24-35
2 Samuel 11:26—12:13a
Psalm 51:1-12

Transcript

00:01.15
Kevin Shock
It's time again to tend. Nathan is here. Hi, Nathan.

00:05.53
nathanpile
Hi, Kevin.

00:07.32
Kevin Shock
Kevin is here. That's me. ah the this week This week we're looking at ah one of the Psalms, Psalm 78 verses 23 to 29.

00:19.82
Kevin Shock
We're using the common English Bible. um Again, that can be found on BibleGateway dot.com or the Bible Gateway app. ah and the three questions that we will be looking at this time. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how do you know what satisfies you?

00:45.88
nathanpile
Hmm.

00:50.01
nathanpile
Interesting, interesting, interesting. um A little information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white in our late 40s, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran church. and where we were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experiences as we read

01:32.76
nathanpile
passages together. And so today we're going to read from Psalm 78 verses 23 through 39.

01:43.40
Kevin Shock
through 29.

01:44.69
nathanpile
29. What did I say? 39? Sorry, it's 29.

01:46.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:48.56
nathanpile
God gave orders to the skies above, opened heaven's doors, and rained manna on them so they could eat. He gave them the very grain of heaven, Each person ate the bread of the powerful ones. God sent provisions to satisfy them. God set the east wind moving across the skies and drove the south wind by his strength. He rained meat on them as if it were dust in the air. He rained as many birds as the sand of the seashore. God brought the birds down in the center of their camp, all around their dwellings.

02:32.72
nathanpile
so they ate and were completely satisfied. God gave them exactly what they had craved.

02:43.50
nathanpile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. ah Kevin, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

02:56.32
Kevin Shock
rained, mostly because it rains unusual things in this text.

03:06.83
Kevin Shock
it it It rained not water, not rain, but it rained manna on them so they could eat. ah God rained meat on them as if it were dust in the air. And he rained as many birds as the sand on the seashore. ah Yeah,

03:23.12
nathanpile
Yeah.

03:25.30
Kevin Shock
It's just interesting to me that there's that that's the verb that is, that's how it's translated ah in this in this translation. um And I'm sure it's translated faithfully. it just is a ah It's bit of an odd image. As I was listening to you speak, the reigning manna from heaven, I don't really have an issue with, but he reigned meat on them. that don't I don't know.

03:50.65
nathanpile
That's where that's where I lost it.

03:51.29
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, yeah.

03:52.15
nathanpile
I'll be honest. That's where I like. So my I have a 13 year old daughter and a couple of years ago she wanted to watch cloudy with a chance of meatballs.

04:01.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

04:02.27
nathanpile
Which is a cartoon movie thing.

04:04.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

04:05.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah. It was a, it was a book before that. I didn't, I never saw the cartoon or movie, but the, I don't know.

04:10.08
nathanpile
Did you read the book?

04:12.26
Kevin Shock
I, I remember it from when I was a kid, but I don't know if I ever read it.

04:12.61
nathanpile
No.

04:15.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

04:15.57
nathanpile
Well, it's it's it's exactly as insane as this sounds, which is like like, I don't remember the full premise of the movie, but at some point there's giant hot dogs falling from the sky.

04:20.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

04:30.14
nathanpile
and um and meatballs, like landing on people, killing people, not killing people, crushing people, um because it is a cartoon after all. But anyway, like the idea of it rained meat, like I just see a slab of a ribeye or ah ah a steak, like landing on people by this translation of he rained meat on them.

04:56.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

04:56.40
nathanpile
I understand that it's going to be a bird in a minute, but um but the idea just feels very cartoon-esque to me of of of this image.

04:57.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

05:05.72
Kevin Shock
yeah

05:10.21
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

05:12.55
nathanpile
ah

05:12.71
Kevin Shock
So rained manna meat and birds.

05:15.97
nathanpile
Yeah. and And for me, it was rained meat.

05:17.05
Kevin Shock
What?

05:18.38
nathanpile
Absolutely.

05:19.00
Kevin Shock
Okay.

05:18.94
nathanpile
That was the thing that stuck out oh of like, again, and I get that it was pop.

05:19.98
Kevin Shock
and Okay.

05:23.21
nathanpile
There was a lot of it. There was more than the sand of a seashore. There was it was like dust over the air. um I do find it um interesting from the psalmist that it rained down in the center of camp and all around their dwellings, but not on their dwellings. um

05:43.41
nathanpile
So like, like, to me, that would be something that would have to have happened if it was just like, whole birds.

05:52.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah,

05:53.82
nathanpile
Like, how do you miss all of the tents of the Israelites?

05:57.56
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah.

05:58.03
nathanpile
ah Otherwise, you know, like kind of like, we're gonna drop birds and, and, you know, kind of a thing. Obviously, again, this is God. um ah Providing for God's people so God can avoid the tents um But there are definitely this idea of thousands and thousands of Israelites um And maybe hundreds of thousands, I don't know how many actually end up leaving the um Egypt to to make the travel with Moses um But the idea that there would be

06:38.77
nathanpile
all of those people would have tents and animals of their own and for the birds not to have killed a human or landed on a tent or taken out the livestock because raining raining birds or raining meat seems like it could be a little bit like a missile coming at you or a cannonball.

07:03.07
Kevin Shock
It, yeah, it does seem that way. I think that's why with the manna, I know the manna was a flaky substance. So at least that falls slowly, kind of floats to the ground, but yeah, meat, meat does not float to the ground.

07:08.32
nathanpile
right Right, floats, floats lightly on the ground.

07:18.66
nathanpile
and So, so it is, it is an interesting, um, it is, it is a, this Psalm is full of, of, of images, like, like they would be like reading it.

07:34.14
nathanpile
You can picture it. It seems a bit absurd. Uh, but God is doing it. Um,

07:40.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

07:41.31
nathanpile
God is doing it. and so All right, you wanna do it a second time?

07:42.97
Kevin Shock
Yep.

07:47.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah. That's a, that's a kind of a world record for us for the first answer, but yeah, around graining meat.

07:50.06
nathanpile
and very It was very fast, but I'm not sure what else you get to say about raining meat.

07:55.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's look at it a second time.

07:58.59
nathanpile
If you have something that we missed about talking about raining meat, please, please, please, please write it down and let us know. um

08:08.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah, please, please send your raining meat stories to.

08:10.03
nathanpile
and as we yeah

08:10.96
Kevin Shock
ah

08:13.04
nathanpile
ah just don't have I don't have a good reigning meat story. um It just seems like you'd have to be dodging birds.

08:17.41
Kevin Shock
ah Well. Yeah, yeah, I don't I don't have a good first hand reigning meat story, but it does it does bring to mind for me the um and I can't remember where this was or when it was exactly, I think it was in the 1970s sometime. But when there was a there was a beached whale someplace in the United States. that ended up, they were like filming it for television, like doing a TV story and it, um, it had, it had died. It was bloating. And then like in the middle of filming, it exploded.

08:51.34
nathanpile
Oh my gosh.

08:51.59
Kevin Shock
And, and it was just, there were just chunks of whale that were like, like landing on all the people who were gathered.

08:56.33
nathanpile
Landing on the camera, people. That's hysterical.

09:01.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

09:01.04
nathanpile
It's hysterical.

09:01.88
Kevin Shock
I can't, I, I can't remember.

09:03.70
nathanpile
It's not hysterical that the the whale blew apart, but yet at the same time, that's pretty, pretty, again, something that I would not think would happen.

09:04.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

09:07.78
Kevin Shock
No, the poor whale. Yeah. Yeah. Or, or the, um, I'm also thinking about the, uh, Turkey drop from WKRP in Cincinnati.

09:25.12
nathanpile
That's a, that's a true Generation X.

09:28.23
Kevin Shock
That is a true.

09:28.20
nathanpile
That's a true Generation X.

09:29.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, you gotta be right around our age, maybe a little bit older.

09:32.50
nathanpile
You have to be our age or older or older to remember the ah live broadcast of, what was his, Les Nesman or what was his name?

09:35.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yep.

09:42.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah, Les Nesman. That's right. That's right.

09:43.80
nathanpile
Les Nesman making of the Turkey Drop in WKRP in Cincinnati.

09:44.24
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

09:49.76
nathanpile
Also a very good, funny memory.

09:49.94
Kevin Shock
on on Yes. So God god was not raining turkeys unable to fly onto the camp, but ah but but quail. so ah well Oh.

10:03.23
nathanpile
If you're a younger generation, you could probably look up Turkey Drop, WKRP Cincinnati, and there's probably an old YouTube clip somebody has, because it is rather it is rather hysterical, um comedy.

10:13.28
Kevin Shock
I'm sure there is. Yeah.

10:18.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah. It's it's kind of a legendary TV clip from our generation.

10:20.56
nathanpile
yeah and it is it is a ah It's funny that I recall that, but I do recall it.

10:22.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:28.98
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah.

10:28.95
nathanpile
I was young, but I do recall it.

10:32.24
Kevin Shock
All right. Well, but second time through.

10:34.71
nathanpile
Well, that we just we just took our world record and and kind of blew it apart because it took us us three more minutes to get to the second time.

10:35.01
Kevin Shock
Let's look at.

10:38.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:40.31
nathanpile
But anyway, here we go.

10:40.63
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Okay.

10:41.82
nathanpile
Second time through.

10:42.31
Kevin Shock
so um Psalm 78 verses 23 to 29. God gave orders to the skies above, opened heaven's doors, and rained manna on them so they could eat. He gave them the very grain of heaven. Each person ate the bread of the powerful ones. God sent provisions to satisfy them. God set the east wind moving across the skies and drove the south wind by his strength. He rained meat on them, as if it were dust in the air. He rained as many birds as the sand on the seashore. God brought the birds down in the center of their camp all around their dwellings, so they ate and were completely satisfied. God gave them exactly what they had craved. ah Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

11:29.31
nathanpile
to go and get the reigning meat. No. um

11:32.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I'm glad you get to read it the third time and not me. ah

11:37.34
nathanpile
It's all right. When you said reigning meat, I laughed too, but without, without the, it's raining meat.

11:40.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I know. boom

11:45.03
Kevin Shock
Oh, gross.

11:45.29
nathanpile
Hallelujah. It's raining meat.

11:46.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, actually, hallelujah may have been what the people said whenever God rained meat down on them.

11:50.58
nathanpile
They might've said that's right.

11:52.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's...

11:52.59
nathanpile
That's right. Maybe this is ah who wrote that song. And do you know who wrote that? Maybe that's what they were really thinking.

11:57.15
Kevin Shock
No, i I doubt it was the Israelites, but um yeah.

12:00.35
nathanpile
It was definitely not the Israelites.

12:02.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Anyway, Lord, what is God calling you?

12:04.01
nathanpile
Anyway, um ah well there's there's a statement in 24 that you read. so my My original answer was that um satisfied, but when you read 24, um when you read the verse 24, he gave them the very grain of heaven. And this translation that we're reading has an exclamation point to that, um which I also picked up when I read it the first time through. But um like like the psalmist is exclaiming, God is giving them the food of heaven.

12:52.14
nathanpile
God is giving them the food of heaven. And so there's this idea almost of that I hear in that statement of almost thankfulness. ah um And so, ah which I think is a little bit in stark um comparison to the word satisfy. Uh, because satisfy to me means like, Hmm, I've eaten enough. I'm feeling good. Doesn't mean I'm not thankful, but at least in our American culture, satisfy kind of means I've taken care of my humanly needs. And this statement in 24 kind of makes me feel like.

13:32.14
nathanpile
Like, can you believe it? God's giving you something so amazing. And and so there's ah there's this idea of of a of that statement making me feel like they're there should be thankfulness in our satisfaction. or in our satisfaction um But it's not saying that explicitly. And so there's a part of of me already as a disciple or follower of Christ that says that state the second statement in twenty verse 24, I should also be thankful for how God meets my cravings or meets my needs that I'm satisfied. um I'm not positive that the the the texts is there, but the psalmist is alluding to that God is doing this amazing thing for us, feeding us from heaven.

14:23.31
nathanpile
um And so that idea of satisfy to me feels very humanly, a very human need and or desire. um Like I want to eat. I want to be satisfied.

14:35.14
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

14:35.51
nathanpile
I want to sit here with a full belly. um Kind of a thing.

14:40.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

14:41.81
nathanpile
So there's a there's a there's a um I guess a rub that I hear um that I don't think the the author is necessarily articulating, but in reading these words or having hearing you read these words to me, um like I feel called to that that I should be more than satisfied, which would lead me to being thankful. um But it doesn't use that word thankful and the in this passage.

15:12.04
Kevin Shock
yeah ah Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I um there There does seem to be, I agree with you, there does seem to be an understanding of gratitude here. ah i Yeah, the the thing, as you were talking, the thing that I was thinking about is, um I don't know if you watch the, if you've ever watched the show alone, are you familiar with that?

15:35.67
nathanpile
Yes.

15:36.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, Lisa and I, that's

15:38.54
nathanpile
About week seven of camp, I wish to be a contestant on Alone.

15:46.83
nathanpile
And I'm almost there. I'm almost to week seven. Next week is week seven. So like then that's when when I'm like, I want to be a contestant on this show.

15:50.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

15:54.61
nathanpile
I don't want anyone around me.

15:54.79
Kevin Shock
You want a boat to drop you off on some remote island?

15:56.01
nathanpile
I don't want anyone around me.

15:59.84
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

16:00.09
nathanpile
And let me be there by myself for 40 days.

16:00.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

16:02.77
nathanpile
Yep, I'm good.

16:03.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um yeah I think I think about how like for those people, um you know their whole like you know they build their shelter. um they're They're on their own. They're out in the middle of nowhere. and they are so much of their waking hours has to do with procuring food so that they can simply so they can survive.

16:27.41
nathanpile
Mm hmm.

16:30.72
Kevin Shock
And I the ah Yeah, and just when you know whenever, like there's a new season on, so Lisa and I have been watching it, and and anytime you know someone, like they don't have they don't have luck for a few days and then they like catch a big fish or something like that, or or or they they trap an animal and like they're you know like the gratitude just exudes from them.

16:50.43
nathanpile
Mm hmm.

16:57.63
Kevin Shock
And um and I think about in this situation, like this this is a real gift I mean, obviously this, this Psalm is a, it's a song of praise, but you know, I, I'm sure you dear listeners can pick up that this is about the, this is about the Exodus. This is about, it's a song of praise about the Exodus, about the people wandering through the desert and God providing what they needed. I, I think that, you know, for the number of people that the tens of thousands who were going through this wilderness journey,

17:31.56
Kevin Shock
the the fact that God gave them every day what they needed to have to physically survive, and they could focus on continuing to move.

17:44.56
nathanpile
Hmm.

17:44.75
Kevin Shock
like like continue I know they were wandering, but but like continuing on the journey, they were like you know I'm sure there was some kind of healing going on because they had just been released from slavery.

17:56.00
nathanpile
Hmm.

17:57.00
Kevin Shock
you know They were like no longer being

17:58.33
nathanpile
Yeah.

18:00.45
Kevin Shock
beaten or having to like, you know, involved in in oppressive labor. So, you know, I can't imagine that a people who were in that situation were moving through the desert very quickly.

18:12.83
nathanpile
yeah

18:12.99
Kevin Shock
And and so here's here's a gift that God gives them that they don't have to expend all of the energy searching for food in this place that really doesn't have any food to give.

18:25.48
nathanpile
yeah

18:25.90
Kevin Shock
um God is sending them. God is raining this food for them down from heaven. And and I think that probably at the get-go, there was a lot they were exuding gratitude. We we hear how the um the or the repetitive nature of this giving of this gift, um they begin to lose sight of the fact that it is a gift and they start to complain about you know having to eat quail and prepare manna.

18:41.79
nathanpile
Yeah. Right.

18:52.43
nathanpile
right

18:53.01
Kevin Shock
Into cakes, you know, and like let's just go back to slavery where we had those delicious cucumbers um But yeah, ah so I guess I in hearing you talk I Think that um I was also I was thinking about reading through it. I was thinking about how often do we eat something or or receive something that um not just Not just aids in our survival, but like gives us exactly what we need. And we just it's it's become so commonplace that we don't think to give thanks for it. um Or to have some kind of gratitude for it. you know i mean we like we've We've all pretty much, not everybody, but

19:44.40
Kevin Shock
And, you know, situations are different for different people where they live. But we, where we are in our situation, are in a society where most people. If they need something to eat, they have the means to get it.

19:57.68
nathanpile
Hmm.

19:58.68
Kevin Shock
um And and there's there's an abundance of food, generally speaking, in our society, there's an abundance of food, recognizing there are places where food is much harder to procure, even in our own nation.

19:58.80
nathanpile
Hmm.

20:13.14
Kevin Shock
um or people don't have the means to just get whatever they need. um But for us in our situation, like it just becomes commonplace that, you know, but like I think how, I think how convenient and how um I guess convenient is the right word, but also just like, yeah, I, we live in a system where, you know, my, like Lisa and I, There are nights when we both have like you know been working hard all day and we either don't have the food in the fridge that we need to make something or or the things that we have to make are just burdensome to make.

20:56.85
Kevin Shock
And so you know she'll call me on the way home from work and can we just order a pizza? Yes, let's just order a pizza. And and you know and we we call a place and magically there's a pizza there to pick up that we could pay for.

21:08.84
nathanpile
Rainin' pizza in Howard.

21:09.49
Kevin Shock
it Yeah.

21:11.76
nathanpile
It's rain and pizza.

21:12.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right. It does rain pizza in Howard sometimes. um But I mean, that like we don't give a thought to that, I guess is my point.

21:20.56
nathanpile
Right.

21:22.50
Kevin Shock
like It's just become something that we feel like we're entitled to, or is such a regular part of our life that we don't, we take it for granted, I guess.

21:32.34
nathanpile
Mm hmm.

21:33.91
Kevin Shock
And and what i what i'm what I guess I'm thinking about in this reading is that God is calling me to not take things for granted. that that the food we receive is a is a holy gift.

21:47.84
nathanpile
Hmm.

21:48.48
Kevin Shock
Even for us, even if it's commonplace, even if there's an abundance of it, it remains it still is a holy gift.

21:56.63
nathanpile
Sure.

21:57.77
Kevin Shock
And and I think that i think that part of the reason part of the reason there is food insecurity in our world and part of the reason there's there's food injustice in our world, that food is not distributed equitably, is because we do take it for granted. Those who have it do take it for granted. And and that makes it even harder for us to consider the situation of people who don't just have it um because we kind of, you know, we generalize our own experience and just, ah you know, the if if i can if I can order a pizza from the from the pizza shop that it's two blocks away from me, well, why can't anyone do that?

22:42.13
nathanpile
Hmm. Hmm.

22:45.28
Kevin Shock
You know, there's there's lots of reasons why other people can't do that.

22:46.08
nathanpile
Right. The people can't do it. Sure.

22:48.73
Kevin Shock
And and i think I think that we would have a lot less food insecurity and a lot less food inequity or injustice if everyone simply had more gratitude for the food that they have.

23:02.26
nathanpile
Hmm.

23:03.41
Kevin Shock
I think it would help us to be mindful of the people who don't have easy access to food or or the things that they need to satisfy them in a way that's not just, you know, i I feel good, but like gives them all the nutrition they need and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm what I'm feeling called toward. ah If I'm being honest, I don't I don't often think about like where my food comes from and I don't.

23:36.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I don't think about what all that goes into like getting that food to me.

23:41.83
nathanpile
getting it absolutely well especially with the grocery stores today like most of us just we walk a couple down through a couple of aisles and we pick up our groceries and and we come home and the labor necessary

23:58.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

23:59.35
nathanpile
to acquire the things, the the the diversity of foods that we've gotten from the grocery store for us to really, again, if you use your image of the alone TV show, there's no way people are getting all of those things in one day. um If you're a hunter-gatherer, kind of a lifestyle, like if that's what you're doing.

24:23.75
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

24:23.85
nathanpile
you know you're You might be hunting a deer or a bunny or something like that for that day, but that's what you're doing and you're probably doing it all day long. You're not like also picking berries as you go because if you're picking berries, then you're not looking for

24:35.73
Kevin Shock
Right.

24:39.44
nathanpile
game hunt um you know yeah or you're at least you're not hunting well let's put it that way you you might get berries that you can eat but you're not hunting well on what you're doing and so yeah there's definitely a part of this as you were talking again that word satisfied to me sticks out in this passage

24:42.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

25:06.03
nathanpile
um the two times that it's stated about being satisfied. Is that right? Is it in here twice?

25:20.59
Kevin Shock
um

25:20.79
nathanpile
Yes, 25 and 29. um

25:23.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, okay. Yeah.

25:24.82
nathanpile
So God provides provisions to satisfy them.

25:27.01
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

25:28.30
nathanpile
um and And I do think it is that. And and and if it were ah a 40-year journey and manna and birds are all you're getting, um

25:44.13
nathanpile
like it seems very transactional. Again, even the word satisfy, I don't know why it's ah does that that word does it doesn't do it for me, but the word satisfy feels very transactional to me.

25:52.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

25:54.78
nathanpile
It's not a it's not a grateful full word. It's not a thankful word. It's not a like we've been blessed by this. it's i've I've met a need that I need that i have to have to fill my stomach so that I have the energy to travel the next day.

26:06.90
Kevin Shock
Mhm.

26:10.94
nathanpile
And so I'm satisfied.

26:12.76
Kevin Shock
Mhm.

26:12.94
nathanpile
um I don't know why it strikes me that way, um but it does. and and so ah and And I guess because it strikes me that way, I feel like it's on purpose by the author. um

26:26.97
Kevin Shock
Mm

26:28.09
nathanpile
because the psalmist in lots of ways talks about glorifying God or blessing God in other places. And and the and this remembrance of this story, and the celebration of this story in song, we've used a word that seems a little bit more transactional. We need this thing. God provides this thing. We eat it, consume it, and we move on.

26:53.29
Kevin Shock
hmm Hmm. Hmm.

26:58.63
nathanpile
So, no.

27:01.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I am. Hmm. Yeah. I don't get the same feeling from that word, but I understand what you're talking about. Yeah.

27:08.59
nathanpile
Sure, sure. Yeah, this is definitely my my lens here.

27:09.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:14.92
nathanpile
So.

27:17.27
Kevin Shock
Well, and I I mean, I think that's, I'm glad you lifted up because different words hit people in different ways and yeah.

27:24.85
nathanpile
You have something else?

27:25.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Um, uh, no, no, I don't actually know. I thought I did, but I, I lost it.

27:33.40
nathanpile
Okay.

27:35.55
Kevin Shock
So let's, let's go on. Yeah.

27:37.89
nathanpile
Third time through.

27:39.43
Kevin Shock
Okay. You read it.

27:40.92
nathanpile
God gave orders to the skies above, opened heaven's doors and rained manna on them so they could eat. He gave them the very grain of heaven. each person ate the bread of the powerful ones. God sent provisions to satisfy them. God set the east wind moving across the skies and drove the south wind by his strength. He rained meat on them as if it were dust in the air. And he rained as many birds as the sand on the seashore. He brought the birds down in the center of their camp, all around their dwellings. So they ate and were completely satisfied.

28:23.34
nathanpile
God gave them exactly what they had craved.

28:31.10
nathanpile
Kevin, um how do you know what satisfies you?

28:38.61
Kevin Shock
Yeah, now now I'm struggling with this question because because of the way that the word that word strikes you. um

28:47.73
nathanpile
Oh, actually I'm okay with your question because it feels very, satisfies again, feels very human to me. So, um so.

28:55.64
Kevin Shock
OK, OK, yeah. Yeah, i think I think because the other, um the word that I'm a little bit uncomfortable with in this reading is is crave.

29:01.05
nathanpile
Mm.

29:07.19
Kevin Shock
um

29:08.99
Kevin Shock
Like I ah God gave them exactly what they had craved. Like for me, a craving is but more closely related to ah and not not ah not a human need to be satiated, like not a human need for nutrition, but like to to satisfy ah ah a taste or like, like This isn't the right right word for food, but almost like lusting after something.

29:44.08
Kevin Shock
but you know so Like a craving for me is not something.

29:45.15
nathanpile
Mmm Ice cream man ice cream I see last night in our household I came home and everyone's like let's go for ice cream and I was like, all right Nope, nope, did do it did not but it was yummy Mmm

29:48.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

29:53.63
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah, right. Like ice cream does not add to your nutritional needs for the day. um But but it might add it might it might satisfy your emotional needs or or some other kind of or you know like um i mean it definitely you know fat and sugar definitely triggers something in our bodies so it's it's not it's not a need to like right right for me yeah yeah for me for me craving is like a

30:20.82
nathanpile
It satisfies something. Maybe not the healthy side of our body, but it does satisfy something.

30:30.04
Kevin Shock
Oh, I really have a taste for this or something like that. And yeah. And I, I mean, I, I guess I have to.

30:37.57
nathanpile
But but though but they they do, the Israelites crave meat. like right like the God provides the manna, and then they complain about, well, we really need meat, God.

30:43.96
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

30:49.81
Kevin Shock
Right.

30:49.91
nathanpile
That's what we really need.

30:50.51
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

30:51.36
nathanpile
They're like, like, cause at first God, they complain and they're like, we're so hungry.

30:52.05
Kevin Shock
Right.

30:54.36
nathanpile
We need something to eat. God provides manna in the morning. And then they're like, but we're still hungry. We want meat. And that's when they get the birds in the evening. Um, so there's that part of craving again.

31:06.23
Kevin Shock
right

31:08.15
nathanpile
Like when, uh, when I hear that, you know, they got, they got exactly what they craved again.

31:14.24
Kevin Shock
Right.

31:15.78
nathanpile
like yeah Again in my head that makes perfect sense. There's things that we crave that don't really aren't the best for us, but they might satisfy us.

31:27.51
nathanpile
And so there's that idea of like God's provided this thing.

31:28.07
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

31:33.59
nathanpile
And though it is from heaven, it is the very grain of heaven. um

31:41.11
nathanpile
It's still

31:44.58
nathanpile
Like it's just meeting a physical ah physical need that my body has as opposed to um something more holistic, I guess.

31:49.96
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

31:58.27
nathanpile
I guess that's how where i I see the whole and satisfied.

32:01.18
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

32:02.75
nathanpile
um and and and And I guess the ice cream is ah is a nice example of that.

32:03.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

32:10.16
nathanpile
Like I can eat the ice cream and feel like, huh, okay, I'm all right.

32:14.20
Kevin Shock
Okay.

32:14.31
nathanpile
Um, like, like I don't need to eat anything else today, but was the last 600 calories I put into my body really all that helpful to my body?

32:15.56
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

32:18.83
Kevin Shock
right

32:26.13
nathanpile
Probably not.

32:27.46
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

32:28.17
nathanpile
Um, so I feel satisfied. My, my gut feels full. My brain has gotten all of the little, um whatever chemicals, you know, eating provide needs and whatever the eating, the action of eating provides for my body, it has released those positive little chemicals all over my body.

32:41.35
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

32:51.56
nathanpile
I'm not sure if I get dopamine from eating or if I get the um what's the other the other big one.

32:58.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I can't, I can't remember.

32:59.36
nathanpile
um

33:00.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:01.35
nathanpile
Uh, but like, you know, whatever it is, there's that satisfied feeling, but, but I, you know, am I going to be sluggish tomorrow? Cause I ate, uh, the small cone at the ice cream store, which was really three fists stacked on top of a cone.

33:18.74
nathanpile
And you're like, this is insane. This is way too much ice cream.

33:21.84
Kevin Shock
I know.

33:22.79
nathanpile
And yet I still consumed it all.

33:22.96
Kevin Shock
I know.

33:25.37
nathanpile
Um, uh,

33:25.70
Kevin Shock
I know. we we have learned um We have learned to order two of our dogs at least get the baby cone now and instead of the small cone.

33:33.52
nathanpile
Small good It

33:35.42
Kevin Shock
The small cone works for our 100 pound dog, but the 40 and the 50 pound dog, they get the baby cone because they can't possibly, I mean, they could eat it, but it wouldn't be good. um

33:46.03
nathanpile
wouldn't be good for the owners later on ah No

33:48.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right. I know, honestly, I mean, this example is helpful because, again, like our our own, like the relationship with ice cream in our household, you know, it's been it has been unbearably hot this summer. I mean, I mean, and and not

34:03.32
nathanpile
Oh, hottest summer in 12 years since I've been again.

34:06.57
Kevin Shock
i I know, I know that there are other places in the country and in the world that are much, much worse than where we live, but like, you know, we have, we currently have a puppy in the house and that dog needs exercise.

34:07.83
nathanpile
Oh.

34:12.32
nathanpile
Yes, yes.

34:18.17
Kevin Shock
That dog needs it, you know, some kind of, uh, uh, stimulation and there have been.

34:24.24
nathanpile
Yeah.

34:27.15
Kevin Shock
but Let's say a higher number than average nights where. Instead of walking the dogs, Lisa and I look at each other and like, let's just throw them in the car and go get ice cream. Because that like you know that excites them. like It stimulates them to get in the car. They like go and they get a treat.

34:42.44
nathanpile
Sure.

34:43.40
Kevin Shock
and like you know like it it works out It's like a low-level way to work out some energy. And we get to sit in an air-conditioned car instead of getting all sweaty from going on a walk.

34:54.17
nathanpile
You're right. and Walking the dog for a mile walker, yeah. yeah

34:59.10
Kevin Shock
But the thing I like about that example is that that's exactly it. That whole action is satisfying a need of ours. It's not just a physical need, but it's like this is Yeah, this this is going to help us get through another evening of these unbearable temperatures, like that kind of thing.

35:22.92
nathanpile
Yeah.

35:23.19
Kevin Shock
um So yeah, yeah. i I guess the other thing I was going to say, which was kind of sitting in the back of my head, you know ah this question I realize now that this question in our conversation, I realize now that this question comes from a personal place for me.

35:33.96
nathanpile
Hmm.

35:40.42
Kevin Shock
um and And I think part of it is, ah Well, I guess I'll just be transparent. i you know i I have come to recognize as I've gotten older that I have not had the healthiest relationship with food. And um and like i you know it's one of those things that like I've never been diagnosed and i'm not even like i you know I'm not even at the point where I would say, you know I would ask my doctor, like do I have an eating disorder? But but definitely,

36:16.08
Kevin Shock
You know, there are, yeah, i like it's been an unhealthy relationship and and more transparency, you know, age and and like not perfect habits.

36:20.27
nathanpile
Hmm. Hmm.

36:28.94
Kevin Shock
I'm like, I'm not a completely unhealthy person. You know, I do exercise and I have like a decent diet. um You know, age and and genetics have kind of caught up to me. And so I was like slowly creeping into, diabetic stage, you know and and when i and when I got over that line, ah you know my doctor said to me, okay, now we gotta do something.

36:45.23
nathanpile
Hmm. Hmm.

36:52.76
Kevin Shock
Like like what you know what you're trying to do isn't working. And so he put me on some medication, some pills, which helped a little bit.

36:56.75
nathanpile
Hmm.

36:59.91
Kevin Shock
And and then he and then he put me on one of these drugs you know that is like... everyone's talking about and has been in the news and stuff like that. And I got to tell you, it like threw things under control real fast. and But the thing that I realized is like, i I'll never forget Nathan. I was listening to a podcast one day, like an interview podcast, and and they were talking about Ozempic. And and like the person who was talking about their experience with it said, Like I can get through a day now and not be obsessed with like what I'm going to eat later on.

37:36.63
nathanpile
Hmm.

37:37.07
Kevin Shock
And when they said that I was like, oh my gosh, like I i feel that way.

37:41.63
nathanpile
Hmm.

37:43.69
Kevin Shock
Like like there are there are times whenever I'm craving something and like i can't I can't just put it out of my head.

37:46.77
nathanpile
Hmm.

37:51.55
Kevin Shock
And like, and this this was a doctor, you know, like like a medical doctor who was talking about this, how like, you know, we We have evolved in such a way or have been taught in such a way that like chemicals change in our brain. And some people just have a problem like dealing with cravings.

38:11.18
nathanpile
Hmm.

38:11.54
Kevin Shock
And and it becomes like like the thing the one thing I noticed is that when I went on this drug, my anxiety went down.

38:20.67
nathanpile
Wow!

38:21.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, because I was not like I was not having the same obsession with food that I had previously.

38:25.38
nathanpile
Hmm.

38:29.95
Kevin Shock
And you know in granted, there are some side effects and things like that. But now, like for the first time in my life, I feel like I'm at a place where i my body, like I can tell what my body needs. and And when it has what it needs, I can tell it to stop. like I like I can stop eating.

38:52.75
nathanpile
Hmm.

38:53.17
Kevin Shock
Like I don't, I don't have to be a member of the clean plate club anymore or, you know, or like, or, you know, there, there are nights when, um, you know, when we do go for ice cream. That I used to be like, well, I i should probably eat something healthy before we go for ice cream. And there are nights now that I can just say, well, not really that hungry. I ate pretty well throughout the day. We can just go and get ice cream and that's okay.

39:17.65
nathanpile
Sure.

39:18.21
Kevin Shock
and I don't have to eat something else on top of it, you know, in order to quote, unquote, be healthy.

39:20.24
nathanpile
Top of it. Sure. be okay, right?

39:24.03
Kevin Shock
So yeah, so like this whole this whole notion for me of like satisfaction and craving, ah yeah, I don't know. it It just, it hits me in a certain way just because of where I am in my life and, and you know, things that have been going on with me for like the past year or so. um And so there ist there is a notion of like human beings being able to, Sometimes it's difficult for us, um almost impossible for us to like be thankful for the gift that we've been given through these through through food or something like that. And um yeah, I mean, I don't know what, i just like just I just feel like now that I'm looking at this question, I'm like, oh, geez, Kevin, you're like, you're like ah this is all your neuroses that have written this question.

40:16.69
nathanpile
no and I don't think so because it's in the tex. It's in the text. It's not that you didn't Hmm Hmm

40:20.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I know it's I know it's in the text, but but like you know I I I actually like I actually went back and forth between should this question be what satisfies you or should this question be how do you know what satisfies you? And I and I think part of the reason I wrote that question is because now I have a greater understanding of what satisfies me. And and I think that there is a it it it does get it has an effect on how gratitude plays into what I, you know, the gifts I receive, the gift of food. um And um yeah, and also just, you know, all of the kind of, how do I want to say it? um You know, all of the kind of like societal stuff that goes around that too, you know, I mean, that, you know, I've i've talked before on here about how

41:11.95
Kevin Shock
you know I've struggled with poor body image throughout my life. um But you know like when when people say, and I'm not saying this, I'm saying this as a very ah plain explanatory comment, yeah there's a lot of times when people see fat people, they make a lot of judgments about them.

41:30.38
nathanpile
Hmm.

41:31.95
Kevin Shock
and you know and and I And I think I used to look at myself in the mirror and make a lot of judgments about me.

41:33.92
nathanpile
About yourself.

41:38.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and and and now,

41:38.91
nathanpile
Yeah.

41:41.56
Kevin Shock
Thankfully, with with so some age and some wisdom and the grace of God, I don't do that anymore.

41:45.98
nathanpile
Hmm.

41:49.71
Kevin Shock
and um and And I'm grateful for that. And it hasn't just been like you know taking this drug. it yeah it's just It's growing too. you know it's like it's It's maturing. you know And and I wish I could I wish I could talk to me 30 years ago and say,

42:11.29
Kevin Shock
Don't be so concerned about how you look because your your life is not gonna be built on that. Your your life is gonna be built on other things that are that are much more important and that will give you much more satisfaction.

42:27.87
nathanpile
right But the hard part about our culture is that that it that it feels like when we're when you're younger, the things ah the things of culture and society say that the way you look is really important.

42:35.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah, oh yeah.

42:43.22
nathanpile
um

42:44.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

42:45.39
nathanpile
which convinces us at a younger age that that we do have to worry about it. So it takes us maybe the rest of our lives to fight off some of that and and recognize God is working in us in other ways and is working to help us be satisfied without,

42:54.94
Kevin Shock
Sure, sure. Mm hmm.

43:04.87
nathanpile
like that it doesn't have know we don't have to look a certain way as a part of that.

43:09.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that, and I'm glad you said that because when, when you say that, it makes me think, yeah, that there are people who lose their life because they can never come to terms with just with, um, recognizing that they're beloved as they are.

43:27.04
nathanpile
Mm, yeah, yeah.

43:29.20
Kevin Shock
And and and and there are there are lots of different scenarios that I can think of in ways that you know maybe firsthand I haven't witnessed, but but I but I've heard about or I know about. And um and that makes me also think that like although this Psalm is particularly about meat and manna, God gives us other things that satisfy our needs.

43:58.95
nathanpile
Yeah.

43:59.68
Kevin Shock
and um and And some of that is just is is abiding love. Some of it is mercy, you know, that God doesn't reject us whenever we mess up or, you know, whenever our imperfections come shining through.

44:12.80
nathanpile
yeah

44:18.83
Kevin Shock
um but there are There are many things that God gives us that satisfy us. And ah and and I think for me, you know the question is what I wrote, because the verse, the way it's translated, that last that last half verse, God gave them exactly what they craved. and And I don't get that. ah The image I get from that is not an image of, well, we could have we could have ah cucumbers tonight or we could have quail. And God knew that they preferred quail.

44:50.39
Kevin Shock
It it wasn't that.

44:51.27
nathanpile
Right.

44:52.59
Kevin Shock
It was that like their bodies were actually craving, like they needed protein.

44:58.03
nathanpile
They needed protein.

44:59.89
Kevin Shock
And so God gave them protein.

45:03.70
nathanpile
yeah

45:04.69
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, again, we go back to alone and you know, the people who try to try to persist for 40 days on, on berries, it doesn't work. It does not work.

45:14.65
nathanpile
No.

45:16.62
Kevin Shock
You can eat all the, all the wild berries in the world and you will never get your nutritional needs. Um, that, so yeah.

45:22.44
nathanpile
Met. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

45:25.03
Kevin Shock
But anyway, that, yeah.

45:26.10
nathanpile
And I think that's an interesting piece about Crave, because I think sometimes we can, like when we were talking about ice cream, we were talking about what our taste buds and what our what our bodies want.

45:35.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

45:37.30
nathanpile
But yeah but the And I'm sure in the context of of Hebrew language, again, when we translate, there's lots of English words and there's only a few Hebrew words that that, like, and so we've used this word, craved, and it does feel like it's a very individualized selected piece, but I like the way that you talk about craved in that it's not so our taste buds, it's it's that our body, our muscles, it's our it's our organs, like, They need these things to survive. That's the kind of craving that we're talking about here. ah like to To survive the journey, to physically walk around the wilderness, their bodies needed protein.

46:23.57
nathanpile
um their bodies needed manna. And so there's there's this i there's this piece of craving that goes just beyond, I think, today's idea of craving, which is, I really want to eat Chinese tonight, where i want or I want um pizza or more or ice cream. this This type of craving goes to the very core of survival um of of being able to make it through the journey that is in front of them, which is physically demanding and is is walking.

47:01.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

47:02.41
nathanpile
and is and And again, using the image from the Alone series, the people that are only eating berries by day 20, they can't be as active anymore because they don't have enough energy to expend. They're just tired and they're they're sleeping for 14 hours because they can't

47:17.87
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

47:22.73
nathanpile
they don't have the energy to go because they burn a lot of energy trying to build their house or their hut or or whatever it was that they spent the early portion of the show doing.

47:24.43
Kevin Shock
Right.

47:29.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

47:31.25
nathanpile
um Some kind of a fish contraption that didn't really fish and didn't catch anything.

47:31.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

47:36.00
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

47:36.59
nathanpile
yeah know

47:37.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

47:37.42
nathanpile
um And so here God is providing what they crave but but that idea of craving is is is what the body and the muscles and the organs are saying we need this to survive.

47:50.99
Kevin Shock
Yep.

47:52.89
nathanpile
um so

47:54.92
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah, the amount of time that ah Lisa and I look at the TV and say, why are you spending so much time on your shelter?

48:05.53
Kevin Shock
Go out and figure out how to get a rabbit or something.

48:08.01
Kevin Shock
like like Yeah.

48:08.02
nathanpile
right right More time hunting, less time shelter.

48:13.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

48:13.29
nathanpile
um

48:13.69
Kevin Shock
Right. Right. Right.

48:17.20
nathanpile
At least early because it's always the weather always is gonna change at least it's always seems to the seasons I've watched the weather always is gonna get bad and so but So yes, yes, eventually you're gonna need ah an okay structure but but to lose all to give all of your energy up on On the structure and the only time you need the structure is the last 10 or 15 days But you have to survive the first 30 days first

48:18.48
Kevin Shock
All right.

48:26.41
Kevin Shock
You're right. Right. Right. That's an inevitable. Right.

48:42.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

48:46.57
nathanpile
ah to get to the last night or fifteen

48:46.75
Kevin Shock
Right. and and and those And those last days whenever the ah the animals are hunkered down and not on the and the fish have gone deeper so your lure can't reach them anymore.

48:52.94
nathanpile
right they're not moving because it snowstorm yeah

49:00.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. ah Right.

49:02.83
nathanpile
yeah yeah it does feel as if

49:04.40
Kevin Shock
I mean, I mean, I gotta be honest, I haven't really, like, I've certainly spent time considering the plight of the Israelites, but but reading the Psalm and and thinking about alone honestly has put it in a new perspective for me.

49:19.98
Kevin Shock
ah It has, because this, like you're thinking, ah like I said earlier, these are people who are, there they're escaping

49:20.99
nathanpile
Yeah.

49:27.96
Kevin Shock
a horrible, oppressive situation. So like not only do they just need the energy to like keep on the journey, but like they have wounds that are healing. they have like they have They have babies who need mothers who have healthy breast milk and things like that. you know i mean Yeah, they they like there their needs, their physical needs and and the burden of those needs is great in order for them to accomplish

49:58.75
Kevin Shock
and arrive where where, you know, the place that God has prepared for them.

50:01.73
nathanpile
The next place. Yeah, yeah.

50:03.37
Kevin Shock
So yeah, they so they need a lot of help and and yeah.

50:06.15
nathanpile
but and And you had said this earlier, and I thought about it, but then you had so many said so many things that I only I didn't get back to this point, but that that idea of grieving, leaving a place.

50:17.07
Kevin Shock
Mm.

50:17.32
nathanpile
and the um and the emotional healing um that has to occur, the emotional and mental healing and and social healing that has to occur, having left a place and now wandering a place that's completely foreign to you. like Again, we we all know what what deep grief does to us.

50:39.80
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

50:41.13
nathanpile
yeah and and how it like, you feel like you've been hit by a train, you're exhausted for weeks, you can't, like our emotions also are a part of this.

50:45.82
Kevin Shock
yeah

50:51.13
nathanpile
Now, but hopefully not 40 years, hopefully they were able to get.

50:52.02
Kevin Shock
Right.

50:55.87
nathanpile
healthy after living in ah in ah in ah and ah an oppressive um system you know to to say, hey, we're better going back to the oppressive system, shows that you're still not freed from the of what how they controlled you um mentally and and all of those pieces.

51:12.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. absolutely Wow. Yeah.

51:14.97
nathanpile
And so, like, again, all of that has all of that when we're talking about healing and you're talking about physical healing.

51:16.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

51:20.54
nathanpile
Yes, all of that's a part of it. And then you have all of this other emotional that that I think we're more aware of today or or we're trying to be more aware of and talking about and in more open ways when we we're talking about mental and social health of individuals, like all of that, too, is a part of this journey um so that they can be freed from having been oppressed for

51:27.42
Kevin Shock
Uh huh.

51:42.75
Kevin Shock
yeah

51:43.45
nathanpile
generations. and And so, you know, they're still and under the old system when they think life is better if we just go back to being oppressed. No, no, that's not, that's not true. um And so you still have more healing to do. And so that too is a part of this, of the body doing all of these physical things that the body needs to do, because we're also then dealing with our emotional and

52:05.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

52:06.33
nathanpile
and and trying to get healthier in that way. And that takes energy, that takes ah takes time, that takes the hard work of talking about it and and and praying about it and being in com community and being in healthy community that helps you reflect back and see, oh, you know you know there was somewhere here in the last couple of months I was reading something that said, you know it takes us seven years to be able to talk about

52:18.30
Kevin Shock
Right.

52:31.07
nathanpile
something that we like seven years to process, something that happened seven years before before we can really talk about it in a clear and open way, something that is deeply connected to us.

52:38.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm hmm.

52:42.01
nathanpile
So like, like the Israelites couldn't really see their full experience until they were away from Egypt for seven years.

52:52.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right.

52:52.95
nathanpile
you know, kind of a thing. and And then to be able to then start to make sense of it after those seven years makes some sense.

52:55.08
Kevin Shock
Yep.

53:00.30
nathanpile
You know, again, that we wouldn't have known that then. we you know It wasn't until recently that I knew that I couldn't really talk about something, you you know, that's still kind of close um in your lifetime.

53:11.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

53:13.39
nathanpile
And so you have to give yourself time to to deal with your your own emotions, your own baggage, to do the healing, to to then be able to get your 365 degree view of from above of being removed from that space and and time so that you can say, oh, I see how that affected me now. Oh, I see why I was feeling this um and to be able to kind of analyze it and process it. So yeah.

53:38.50
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And and i can I can remember hearing a very similar notion, of someone talking about COVID one time, when we were like in the midst of COVID.

53:48.70
nathanpile
Hmm.

53:49.06
Kevin Shock
And ah and you know this was a psychologist um who who said, you know essentially, it it's going to take society at least seven years to return to normal.

53:59.53
nathanpile
Hmm.

53:59.80
Kevin Shock
quote-unquote normal for us to like work through all of the after effects of the pandemic too. so that So to hear you quote that same number seven years is is interesting to me.

54:06.13
nathanpile
Yeah.

54:11.05
Kevin Shock
That that must be a ah kind of conventional wisdom you know amongst trauma experts and yeah and and in that, yeah.

54:11.32
nathanpile
so Yeah. And then in that world. Yeah.

54:19.46
Kevin Shock
um I also have to say, Nathan, I really, really appreciate your perspective on the the plight of the Israelites. um I think it's so easy for us to read them talking about their cucumbers and watermelons um and say, oh gosh, oh, they they they lost focus so easily. But to think of it from a sense of they have not been completely liberated yet. they're still stuck in the in the in the mindset of that system.

54:47.59
nathanpile
Yeah.

54:50.17
Kevin Shock
That to me opens up a whole new understanding of of their plight. And I really appreciate that you brought that forth. That's something I'm gonna be thinking about for a while. um So yeah, you've you've been you've been saying some things recently that really get me looking at scripture in new ways. So I'm um ah i'm ah happy about this. you know Like this doesn't, yeah.

55:11.63
nathanpile
So it's finally paying off our

55:12.29
Kevin Shock
it And not finally, it's been, it's no, it's not

55:15.19
nathanpile
our 25 year or 30 year friendships finally paying off.

55:20.25
Kevin Shock
No, not paying off. That's not, it's been, it's been valuable the whole time, but there, there have been some things lately that you said that I'm like, Oh, wow.

55:23.25
nathanpile
I know it has been.

55:28.39
Kevin Shock
I didn't, I didn't really consider it in that way before. And, and this really, this helps me to get deeper into it. So yeah. So I appreciate that. I'm, I'm grateful for that.

55:37.41
nathanpile
I'm grateful for all of our time together, buddy.

55:37.59
Kevin Shock
You're given. you're you're giving me what I need to be satisfied. So, um all right, additional texts. These are all, like we heard last week, these are all about, ah last week was about food too, and bread from heaven. We're right in the middle of Mark's year of hearing from the gospel according to John about

55:56.46
nathanpile
Mm.

55:56.80
Kevin Shock
Jesus being the bread um and giving bread and and multiplying bread. So additional text, Exodus 16 verses 2 to 4 and 9 to 15, the Lord gives manna in the wilderness, so directly related to the psalm we just read. Ephesians 4, 1 through 16, not necessarily about food, but maintain the unity of the faith. ah John 6, 24 to 35, Christ the bread of life. And then we have the semi-continuous, the broad swath of stories from Hebrew scripture. 2 Samuel 11, verse 26 through 12, verse 13a, where David is rebuked by the prophet Nathan.

56:39.89
Kevin Shock
And then Psalm 51 verses 1 through 12, have mercy on me, oh God, according to your steadfast love. And Psalm 51 is the Psalm that's attributed to David. ah Legend says that this is the Psalm he wrote after Nathan rebuked him. So um so those two things, those two readings go hand in hand as well.

56:56.12
nathanpile
Hmm.

57:00.92
Kevin Shock
um But yeah, i I appreciate the space to talk about some things, Nathan. I appreciate the

57:06.06
nathanpile
yeah And peace.

57:07.23
Kevin Shock
the ability to reflect in new ways on scripture. and um And I look forward to our next time together. And friends, we all we both hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.