Episode 03: Zephaniah 3:14-20

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How does fear affect the way you live?

Additional texts:
Isaiah 12:2-6
Philippians 4:4-7
Luke 3:7-18

Transcript

00:01.07
Nathan Pile
Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy it's time to tend.

00:06.39
Kevin Shock
Oh, that was really loud, Nathan.

00:12.39
Nathan Pile
Well I'm excited.

00:12.48
Kevin Shock
That's going to get that. Well, good, good. I'm excited too.

00:17.29
Nathan Pile
ah Yeah it's time to tend everybody it's ah season three episode three we're going to look at Zephaniah. the third chapter today, fourteen to verses to 20. And Kevin and I are going to read from the Common and English Bible. You can follow along with whatever translation you have close at hand, or you can look it up on Bible Gateway if you like, and follow along on the Common English Translation. As always, we're going to um

00:51.21
Nathan Pile
In our tending, we're going to answer three questions. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how does fear affect the way you live?

01:06.77
Kevin Shock
Whoo.

01:06.91
Nathan Pile
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's that is a big one.

01:08.06
Kevin Shock
That's a big one.

01:09.67
Nathan Pile
Wow.

01:10.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:12.43
Nathan Pile
Good stuff.

01:12.85
Kevin Shock
Um, I can't speak for Nathan, but I do know that Nathan and I are pretty similar in a lot of ways, including we are men married to women in financially stable households, white in our late forties college and seminary educated.

01:28.22
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience and your reading of scripture.

01:55.65
Kevin Shock
Zephaniah chapter three, verses 14 through 20 from common English Bible. Rejoice, daughter Zion. Shout, Israel. Rejoice and exalt with all your heart, daughter Jerusalem. The Lord has removed your judgment. He has turned away your enemy. The Lord, the King of Israel, is in your midst. You will no longer fear evil.

02:19.81
Kevin Shock
On that day it will be said to Jerusalem, don't fear Zion. Don't let your hands fall. The Lord your God is in your midst, a warrior bringing victory. He will create calm with his love. He will rejoice over you with singing. I will remove from you those worried about the appointed feasts.

02:38.70
Kevin Shock
They have been a burden for her, a reproach. Watch what I am about to do to all your oppressors at that time. I will deliver the lame. I will gather the outcast. I will change their shame into praise and fame throughout the earth. At that time, I will bring all of you back at the time when I gather you. I will give you fame and praise among all the neighboring peoples when I restore your possessions and you can see them, says the Lord.

03:07.29
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group or another person, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Nathan, we're reading Zephaniah 3, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

03:22.95
Nathan Pile
um ah Well, to be honest, at the beginning of this, as I as i listened to you read it, um I was struck by the that Zion is a sister, a daughter.

03:41.67
Kevin Shock
Mm.

03:41.84
Nathan Pile
um

03:44.88
Nathan Pile
And um not in a not in a bad way, in any way, shape, or form, i because it was a different, rejoiced daughter Zion, um it just caught my attention. And so then of course it had me thinking, well, what is what is um the author here of Zephaniah saying to us um because Jerusalem is also considered a a sister city. um And so, um yeah, it was just i was I was interested and curious, it does make me wanna go back and look at all of Zephaniah um around around why why this city is seen in this way. um It seems uncommon to me. And so does he does Zephaniah

04:40.37
Nathan Pile
Constantly talk about cities in the feminine or is it or is it?

04:44.55
Kevin Shock
In the feminine. Yeah, I don't know.

04:46.96
Nathan Pile
um Because it's just not familiar to me that the that other cities other prophets that write don't seem to write about cities being Put in the feminine so um So yeah, that was it was just an interesting and and they're at the beginning of it it's all about um It's all about praise. It's all about rejoicing. It's all about um giving thanks.

05:20.38
Nathan Pile
so yeah

05:23.37
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

05:23.48
Nathan Pile
there there There's lots in this though that I could go down through. and

05:27.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

05:28.29
Nathan Pile
ah pick out other other phrases that had also caught my attention.

05:28.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

05:31.13
Nathan Pile
But right at the very beginning, that was the first thing that, got moved so just those first couple of words. And I'm like, whoa, why are we calling Zion and, um well, it's the same city, Jerusalem and Zion are the same city, but why are why is it getting this, getting the connection to daughter?

05:49.53
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

05:50.89
Kevin Shock
yeah Yep. Hmm.

05:52.82
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? What word, phrase or image struck you?

05:55.85
Kevin Shock
ah the The phrase, well, sentence phrase, he will create calm with his love.

06:04.24
Nathan Pile
Mmm, that was another good one, yep.

06:06.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's the way that that's translated in CEB. I don't even know exactly what it is and I could look very quickly here at some other ah translations.

06:22.35
Kevin Shock
Oh, of course I... hit the wrong thing. Well, okay, I can't look very quickly. Anyway, I could i could if I hadn't been trying so hard.

06:31.10
Nathan Pile
Looking quickly is over.

06:35.95
Kevin Shock
um So new revised standard version, ah he will renew you in his love. that I mean, that's that's a nice thing to say too, ah but I don't know, just the those specific words, he will create calm with his love.

06:43.71
Nathan Pile
Yeah?

06:50.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

06:50.90
Kevin Shock
ah Two things I like about that. I like the idea of calm being created. and That's a wonderful notion, ah probably at all times, but I'm feeling it at this time in this world right now. ah Creating calm would be a great thing, but also ah that God creates calm not by beating us over the head with it or forcing it down our throats, but by loving us. ah And um that's,

07:22.01
Kevin Shock
It just, it speaks to me. And it also makes me beg the question. It begs the question for me then. um do I when When I'm exhibiting love for someone else, does it create calm for them?

07:37.78
Kevin Shock
Not to put myself in the place of God, but on a much, much smaller scale. ah does it Does it create calm when I'm when I'm in a holy and good way loving somebody else?

07:48.40
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

07:54.71
Kevin Shock
I know it I know it can create calm for me. Sometimes the calm I experience from God's love comes through the love of somebody else. Yeah, when someone's showing care for me or concern for me or even just paying attention to me, that can create a great space of calm for me, yeah.

08:22.58
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's an interest. Again, it was an interesting phrase as as um as you read it. But I love your question of is does my does my love bring calm to others?

08:38.90
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

08:39.88
Nathan Pile
That same question. um

08:44.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

08:48.34
Nathan Pile
um ah Here's my question. um What do you think, in verse 16, don't let your hands fall? Is that about praise?

08:57.94
Kevin Shock
I don't know. I don't know. That was and that was one of the ones that there are there are also a couple of phrases in here that are. A little confusing, I think we're not entirely clear.

09:08.53
Nathan Pile
No, it's definitely a mystery because because it's we're we're talking about all of these things.

09:08.69
Kevin Shock
Um.

09:13.94
Nathan Pile
um like you don't need to fear evil which again a nice idea we're reminded don't fear Zion and then don't let your hands fall um yeah

09:23.07
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. New revised standard version says, uh, don't let your hands grow weak. Which has another connotation, but, um,

09:36.19
Kevin Shock
Oh, the new English translation, the net Bible, your hands must not be paralyzed from panic.

09:47.71
Kevin Shock
That almost sounds like a Eugene Peterson thing there, but that's, that's no, I mean, that I don't mean that in a bad, I don't mean in a derogatory way.

09:49.95
Nathan Pile
and it hey hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Oh, oh, all right. All right. All right.

09:57.84
Kevin Shock
It just, but I mean, that's the kind of, he uses more emphatic language.

10:01.53
Nathan Pile
Words.

10:03.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:03.37
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

10:03.96
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:04.34
Nathan Pile
Yep.

10:04.93
Kevin Shock
But that's a,

10:05.15
Nathan Pile
Well, and but but I appreciate that translation compared to what I'm reading here because I'm not really sure what this means.

10:10.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:11.03
Nathan Pile
But, but that idea of because, because I, you know, when sometimes we see images or um Like there would be people that would hold someone who is praying a priest's arms. They would hold them up for the priest because the priest is so tired of of um of praying. So that idea of don't let your hands fall. Like I'm like, is that what this is about? um But it makes more sense that don't don't allow your anxiety to cause you to,

10:47.14
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

10:48.01
Nathan Pile
to to you know, be paralyzed, to be er not able to to function or work or to serve, to love.

10:58.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

11:00.78
Nathan Pile
So.

11:01.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um Eugene Peterson doesn't even mention hands in his translation.

11:08.24
Kevin Shock
But I like his translation of those two verses of 16 and 17.

11:10.65
Nathan Pile
All right, what's he got? What's he got? What's he got?

11:12.61
Kevin Shock
Jerusalem will be told don't be afraid dear Zion. Don't despair. That's the hands line Don't despair your God is present among you a strong warrior there to save you Happy to have you back.

11:26.00
Kevin Shock
He'll calm you with his love and delight you with his songs.

11:30.69
Nathan Pile
a Yeah, yeah.

11:31.32
Kevin Shock
I Really like that image ah And and ah

11:38.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

11:38.91
Kevin Shock
I like that it that it's predicated by ah happy to have you back.

11:42.05
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

11:46.71
Kevin Shock
that's a That's a beautiful, beautiful understanding of how God desires us and how God desires that connection with us, how God desires to be in relationship with humanity.

12:03.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:04.02
Kevin Shock
um this is a it's like It's a comforting, calming, Um, delighting image because God is just happy to have us back.

12:16.31
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:17.32
Kevin Shock
Um, that's, um, I heard Nathan this, uh, as we're recording this, this is a still late November, but, um,

12:29.42
Kevin Shock
ah Recently, I was at a and was it a conference for ah new pastors and deacons in our region and heard one ah just a fan fantastic sermon from Bishop Kurt Kusserow of the Southwestern Pennsylvania Synod.

12:47.21
Kevin Shock
ah he's That's the area around Pittsburgh ah for our listeners.

12:47.45
Nathan Pile
Mmhmm.

12:51.25
Kevin Shock
um He was preaching on the

12:58.46
Kevin Shock
on the Valley of the Dry Bones from Ezekiel, and ah and likened the way that God talks in that that reading to a seven-year-old. And the way that he did it was that he was talking about, ah now where nowhere is Dry Bones? why why um

13:26.95
Kevin Shock
Why did I think, now I'm not, I thought it was in a certain place in in the election area, but now I'm not finding it. So now I have to remember exactly what he talked about. um

13:39.96
Kevin Shock
He asks Ezekiel, God asks Ezekiel in that text, um can these dry bones live? And um and Ezekiel replies, oh Lord, you know,

13:55.67
Kevin Shock
You know whether these dry bones can live, but he talks about he Kurt Bishop Kusserow talked about um in this reading you get a sense of like a child who who wraps a gift.

14:09.97
Kevin Shock
and then gives it to an adult who says, and then the child says, open it, open it, come on, open it. Is just so excited to see to see the reaction of the person receiving the gift.

14:15.75
Nathan Pile
Right, right.

14:21.59
Kevin Shock
um And ah and you you know the child, what is it?

14:21.64
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

14:26.21
Kevin Shock
What is it? Open up, open it up. So we see what it is. What is it? What is it? And and it was just that I'm doing, I'm not doing it justice, but Bishop Kusserow did this wonderful parallel of God being excited like that seven year old.

14:36.85
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

14:38.82
Kevin Shock
you know can these Can these dry bones live Ezekiel? Can they? Can they? Do you think they can?

14:46.97
Kevin Shock
Ezekiel, you know I don't know. you You tell me. You show me. um And then God all along intends to show Ezekiel, but wants to engage in this back and forth before because God is so excited to show Ezekiel.

14:51.04
Nathan Pile
Right.

14:59.76
Nathan Pile
Before it. Hmm.

15:02.88
Kevin Shock
and um and And so I love that. I get the same feeling from that. um from that translation in the message, happy to have you back, he'll calm you with his love and delight you with his songs.

15:19.57
Kevin Shock
That's an image of the God that I heard presented in that sermon by Bishop Kusserow.

15:24.42
Nathan Pile
yeah

15:25.93
Kevin Shock
God's just so happy to have you back, yeah.

15:29.66
Nathan Pile
Well, and and and even in this pass-, you know, there in 19, you get this idea of watch what I'm about to do.

15:29.67
Kevin Shock
yeah

15:37.59
Nathan Pile
you know um you know, so there is that invitation.

15:37.68
Kevin Shock
yeah absolutely yeah

15:40.87
Nathan Pile
And so just as you talk about and describe that that energy um that um Bishop Kusserow shared in in the sermon, like you can see it in this passage. Absolutely, you can you can feel that energy, that same kind of energy here um from Zephaniah as um ah this writing kind of gets placed on the page for us.

16:00.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

16:08.81
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

16:11.91
Nathan Pile
All right, we wanna do it a second time.

16:12.11
Kevin Shock
All right. Yes. Yes.

16:17.11
Nathan Pile
Rejoice, daughter Zion, shout to Israel. Rejoice and exalt with all your heart, daughter Jerusalem. The Lord has removed your judgment. He has turned away your enemy. The Lord, the King of Israel, is in your midst. You will no longer fear evil.

16:38.58
Nathan Pile
On that day, it will be said to Jerusalem, don't fear Zion, don't let your hands fall. The Lord your God is in your midst, a warrior bringing victory. He will create calm with his love. He will rejoice over you with singing. I will remove from you those worried about the appointed feasts. They have been a burden for her, a reproach.

17:08.74
Nathan Pile
Watch what I am about to do to all your oppressors at that time. I will deliver the lame. I will gather the outcast. I will change their shame into praise and fame throughout the earth. At that time, I will bring all of you back. At the time when I gather you, I will give you fame and praise among all the neighboring peoples when I restore your possessions.

17:37.94
Nathan Pile
and you can see them," says the Lord.

17:44.08
Nathan Pile
Well, Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

17:50.89
Kevin Shock
Oh, that this is always the hardest question for me. I. um

18:03.33
Kevin Shock
i I don't. OK, I'm going to try to talk talk through this. ah The thing that the thing that I notice in this text is that this is before. The people return from exile.

18:20.62
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

18:21.50
Kevin Shock
are brought back from exile.

18:22.76
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

18:23.44
Kevin Shock
and And yet, the language that's being used here, that it it it is it is all language, like this is coming, but but the way that the way that God speaks through the prophets whenever something is coming makes it seem like it's already here.

18:40.74
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

18:43.55
Kevin Shock
and so that you know um Nowhere here does it say, you know I'll tell you at that time, don't fear, Don't let your hands grow weak. ah God is saying it through Zephaniah right now. Watch what I'm about to do to all your oppressors at that time. And then and then the thing that I love is that God doesn't say what God is going to do the to the oppressors. God says, I will deliver the lame. I will gather the outcast. I will change their shame into praise and fame throughout the earth. God in detailed fashion describes

19:21.44
Kevin Shock
what God is going to do for those who are marginalized, for those who are hurting.

19:25.33
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:26.19
Kevin Shock
ah And so where all this leads where all this leads me is I sometimes have to remind myself or be reminded that even if my situation in the moment is difficult, and even if I'm paralyzed by panic,

19:50.98
Kevin Shock
or frustrated under fear that God is worthy of praise and and God is worthy of paying attention to. God is worthy of my attention and my affection. And um I know that when I dive into God's Word what like when I do with you every week, Nathan, but also when I do in several other times throughout the week, ah throughout any given week. um It doesn't change my circumstances, but it might change how I feel about my circumstances.

20:35.59
Nathan Pile
Hmmm.

20:35.74
Kevin Shock
and And so I think that that constant reminding myself or recalling the promises of God in Scripture is something that I feel called to ah because it does, that in and of itself opens a channel for God's love to come to me and thereby create calm even in a difficult situation.

21:10.69
Kevin Shock
So I don't want to, I don't want to minimize it down to something like, you know, being sure I read my Bible whenever I'm upset or I mean, it could be that, but but it could be any way that I, I am reminded of or remind myself of the promises of God, even in difficult circumstances.

21:34.96
Nathan Pile
Hmm The um This one for me Particularly this passage was a little bit harder to think about there because there seems like there's lots of pieces here I appreciate your piece that your piece around um Around praise and rejoicing

21:35.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

21:56.63
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

22:04.19
Nathan Pile
um

22:07.09
Nathan Pile
And I think that probably would echo our land where I was that because when I as I read down through this. um

22:19.40
Nathan Pile
There's there here this minor prophet is trying to say to the people of Israel. um Rejoice because of all of the things God is going to do. And.

22:37.44
Nathan Pile
um as i was standing As I was sitting in worship yesterday, like um so again, we're recording this at the end of of November, so we just celebrated Christ the King.

22:50.41
Nathan Pile
And of course, we had some nice booming hymns for Christ the King Sunday, like Lift High the Cross and Crown Him with Many Crowns.

22:54.41
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

22:58.61
Nathan Pile
right and um and And as we're sitting there singing those songs, I'm sitting thinking, why do we Why do we not sing more in culture?

23:12.15
Nathan Pile
Why do we not?

23:13.10
Kevin Shock
Oh, yeah.

23:14.80
Nathan Pile
you know like And so like why have we as a society kind of pushed singing to the edges? um

23:26.64
Nathan Pile
you know And and like I don't know, it was just,

23:33.03
Nathan Pile
I thought that I had and now and now reading this passage makes me kind of, I hear Zephaniah saying to us, you know, re resist rejoice, oh, daughter of the Allegheny Synod.

23:47.75
Nathan Pile
um yeah you know

23:52.24
Nathan Pile
ah share praise, exalt God because God does big things. and And this idea of not being afraid in today's world, it would be great news for us because we're afraid of lots of things.

24:05.04
Nathan Pile
And and I'm not saying that we shouldn't be, but fear has been we've allowed fear to take up a a strong part of our lives.

24:14.48
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

24:15.68
Nathan Pile
um And so here, the to have a prophet kind of, though speaking, um hundreds of thousands of years ago, well, not hundreds of thousands of years, thousands of years ago, we're talking 2,500 years ago um roughly um Give or take you know again this not being exact um But roughly the Babylonian tech captivity is taking place 500 years before Jesus and so um ah You know that's 2,000 years before us and so all of that it's happening timeline wise but Like it's still I think

24:35.03
Kevin Shock
Give or take, yeah.

25:00.20
Nathan Pile
could be a word that we would hear today um and the of of how do we set down our fear? How do we not be paralyzed?

25:11.93
Nathan Pile
And how do we give thanks and praise? How do we lift up our arms in praise? Now, again, as a Lutheran Christian, that would be pretty rare. we're not we're not We don't praise commonly with throwing our hands up in the air. And and you know other than maybe on Palm Sunday when we have some palms in our hands and we flap those in the air, that's about as ah ah animated as our arms get normally during our praise sessions as Lutherans, I get that.

25:38.57
Nathan Pile
but But boy, what why why why do we why does our are our praise seem muted, I guess? Maybe that would be my question. you know what and And so here we are called out by the the minor prophet to remind us.

25:57.19
Nathan Pile
ah Let's give thanks in big ways. Let's give let's let's praise God for who who God is and what God is going to do.

26:01.05
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Mmm.

26:05.32
Nathan Pile
and And so this reading is interspersed back and forth with these words of praise and these reminders or teachings about, um A, teachings about things that we should let go of, but then also teachings about who God is.

26:21.31
Nathan Pile
um God will, as you said earlier, And God will create calm um in our hearts. And so um if this is who God is, then how do how do we how do we engage that calm um and that love and then allow it to transform us into ah into people of praise, people of giving thanks?

26:49.66
Nathan Pile
and so So yeah, I don't know, that like that word of rejoice kind of sticks out to me ah of what word or phrase or or what what do I feel God calling us to. I think in some ways it is a ah word of, I feel this passage is calling me to kind of, how do I rejoice? And and of course, yesterday's experience kind of making me feel like, um

27:13.00
Nathan Pile
you know, i I know I've said this in the past, I had a hey um children's choir director when I was a kid. who used to say, when you're done with worship, you should be exhausted.

27:24.16
Kevin Shock
Mm.

27:24.19
Nathan Pile
um That was kind of her moniker. And so she told us as as kids in the children's square, I want you to sing out. I want you to to you know sing with, make a joyful noise with your voices when you're in worship together.

27:38.16
Nathan Pile
And so that when you go home, you're just so exhausted you need to take a nap. um

27:43.95
Nathan Pile
you know And and you know when you're 10 or 12, you're like, okay, Pat, I can really sing. I don't think I'm gonna need a nap after church, but okay, well, I'll sing out kind of a thing.

27:54.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:55.53
Nathan Pile
Now as a 48 year old, well, I guess technically I'll be 49 by the time this is played, but ah I can feel exhausted on a Sunday.

28:05.30
Kevin Shock
yeah

28:06.37
Nathan Pile
um I can feel exhausted on a Sunday that, ah I do need a nap. But there's something about that, that i about her description to us as a choir and and this passage together of how do we get it how do we how do we make a noise, how do we make a proclamation that is joyous and celebratory um about our God um because God is all of these things.

28:39.86
Nathan Pile
and so how do ah How do I rejoice? how do i And how do I help a community rejoice as a, ah though I'm not necessarily leading worship every Sunday. I do lead worship specifically here at camp in the summer. um How do we make that worship joyful?

29:00.54
Nathan Pile
that it engages all of us, that that we become wrapped up in in rejoicing and exalting God. Because like when I sing, and this is just, I can only speak for me, but when I sing, there's something biologically that happens to me. And I know that there's research out there that says, you know, when we sing certain things are happening in our and our ah body chemistry that that, you know, uplift us.

29:26.65
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

29:27.32
Nathan Pile
So why as a culture have we gone away from from that singing? I don't know. it's It's an interesting, it's peculiar to me and this passage kind of really brings it back up in my head.

29:38.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I mean, we we certainly have.

29:40.97
Kevin Shock
ah We i I don't want to echo too much of what we said in our previous episode to this one, ah but but we really do value the things that we do more than the world we create or the or becoming the people who we are.

30:04.32
Kevin Shock
So you know you look at how music education and the arts in general have been cut, funding for that has been cut in schools.

30:10.16
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah.

30:12.15
Kevin Shock
ah programs for that have been cut in higher education. um And maybe it's because you know ah someone knowing how to play an instrument or someone knowing how to sing a song or ah or you know children having that opportunity is not going to earn anyone more money.

30:33.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

30:34.20
Kevin Shock
um I mean, it might earn the artists themselves money, but you know it's it's not like I think that that's what we put a lot of emphasis on in our world.

30:43.35
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

30:43.54
Kevin Shock
ah how How is this going to produce something?

30:46.25
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

30:48.12
Kevin Shock
And um so then the thing that we've stopped producing is ah is goodwill and and calm and care amongst one another.

30:50.17
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

31:00.10
Kevin Shock
That's the thing that we've stopped producing. um I even think like I, you know, this is, I have a, i have what's the word I want to say? I have a ah strange relationship with um patriotism,

31:21.73
Kevin Shock
nationalism, um things like that. i I will, you know, I am respectful in the way that people want me to be respectful about certain things.

31:32.55
Kevin Shock
Uh, but that's all to say. One thing that I wonder about is why did the star spangled banner become a performance at sporting events?

31:44.28
Nathan Pile
Mmmm.

31:45.14
Kevin Shock
That's a song. and I think that's a song that should be sung communally. It should be sung by everyone who's gathered there who feels like singing it, but it should, be it should be group song, not individual performance.

31:51.34
Nathan Pile
yeah Sure. Hmm.

31:59.35
Kevin Shock
Um,

32:01.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And I know that, you know, that other cultures are different. There are other cultures where children still by and large grow up either playing instruments or singing or because it's a community event. It's a community characteristic.

32:19.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

32:23.17
Nathan Pile
It's bringing beauty into the community.

32:26.51
Kevin Shock
It's bringing beauty into the community. And now we have also have scientific data that shows that it releases good hormones in our own bodies and helps us to make connection with other people.

32:40.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

32:41.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. It makes us, music and singing together makes us healthier. Whether it's praise of God or not, whatever we're doing together, it makes us healthier.

32:55.53
Kevin Shock
So yeah, I, yeah, I, I like your answer, Nathan, and it gives it gives me a lot of food to ponder.

33:05.42
Nathan Pile
Oh.

33:07.44
Kevin Shock
let's ah

33:08.66
Nathan Pile
Do it a third time.

33:09.80
Kevin Shock
yeah Let's consider the the third question. From Zephaniah 3, verses 14 through 20. Rejoice, daughter Zion, shout Israel. Rejoice and exalt with all your heart, daughter Jerusalem. The Lord has removed your judgment. He has turned away your enemy.

33:27.75
Kevin Shock
The Lord, the King of Israel, is in your midst. You will no longer fear evil. On that day it will be said to Jerusalem, don't fear Zion. Don't let your hands fall. The Lord your God is in your midst, a warrior bringing victory. He will create calm with his love. He will rejoice over you with singing. I will remove from you those worried about the appointed feasts. They have been a burden for her, a reproach.

33:53.08
Kevin Shock
what I am about to do to, watch what I'm about to do to all your oppressors at that time. I will deliver the lame. I will gather the outcast. I will change their shame into praise and fame throughout the earth. At that time, I will bring all of you back. At the time when I gather you, I will give you fame and praise among all the neighboring peoples when I restore your possessions and you can see them, says the Lord.

34:23.10
Kevin Shock
Nathan, our third question, how does fear affect the way you live?

34:33.05
Nathan Pile
um

34:39.19
Nathan Pile
ah Well, fear makes me... I become more isolated.

34:47.84
Nathan Pile
um Fear ah makes me less willing to take new risks. um

34:59.36
Nathan Pile
and try something else out. um It ah inhibits my creativity.

35:14.27
Nathan Pile
um

35:19.13
Nathan Pile
It can be lonely. um oh you know And so I think all of those pieces

35:30.40
Nathan Pile
Like I'm not living, when when I'm living in fear, I'm not living well.

35:44.47
Nathan Pile
um

35:44.48
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

35:45.67
Nathan Pile
ah it it is It is, well, fear fear fear is scary for sure, but but it it it can have such a detrimental effect on me that I'm not willing to, I'm not i'm not able or I'm not willing to to put myself out there to take on new new challenges or or share an idea. I'm not willing to engage with others.

36:23.31
Nathan Pile
um

36:27.33
Nathan Pile
and And when all of that happens, again, ah to me, it's like it's not ah it's not a very full life. It becomes ah a very lonely a time when i'm when I'm allowing fear to be the winner um in the way and in in in regulating the way I live life. like a fear is the And then there's definitely times where and when fear is a part of that.

36:54.77
Nathan Pile
um I think i probably there's also a part of sadness to me when I'm afraid because of all of those choices, because I'm not doing those things. There's also a level of so of deep sadness for me because I don't want to say I've given up on living.

37:21.36
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

37:22.01
Nathan Pile
but I'm afraid of living and so thereby those things that I would have, um the things that give me life, like I like to create, I like to envision new things, I like to be gathered with other people.

37:23.94
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

37:36.17
Nathan Pile
um But you know part of the idea of fear seems to take all of that, the places where I get life from seems to take that away.

37:51.29
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

37:53.70
Nathan Pile
And so, like as I'm thinking about the the people that are part of the Babylonian captivity, they've lost they've lost big aspects of of their life, of of of the the honor that they would have had when they lived in Jerusalem.

38:11.52
Nathan Pile
the, um,

38:15.98
Nathan Pile
the way of living life, the thing that would have nurtured them, all of that would have been taken away. and i And I hear some of that in, well, I hear a lot of that in this passage. Again, Zephaniah trying to get the people to not be afraid any longer. Get get back to living, get back to being the people of God. So, how about you, my friend? what

38:48.42
Nathan Pile
What, how how does fear affect you in life?

38:48.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

38:52.48
Kevin Shock
I mean, most of what you said is is my response as well. I um ah The big word that you said right at the beginning is ah isolation. I think the fear isolates. um And not only does it isolate because we get we want to protect ourselves from other people, but it also isolates because we ah fear

39:16.88
Kevin Shock
Fear forces us to stop seeing people like people. um

39:27.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

39:28.12
Kevin Shock
and And what I mean by that is that we um we label people, we categorize them into something we believe about them instead of seeing them for the people that they are. ah So I think that um

39:46.02
Kevin Shock
fear fear allows us to dehumanize others.

39:50.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah, make judgment, make judgment about them.

39:50.67
Kevin Shock
And yeah, yeah.

39:52.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

39:54.19
Kevin Shock
And I think that, um and yeah, and so yeah, literally then I think that it enables us to start seeing people as things instead of people and things that will get in the way of the life that we want.

40:05.96
Nathan Pile
Hmm

40:10.04
Kevin Shock
ah even though they currently aren't doing that, but that someone has told us that they will do that. ah And so isolation is a bad thing, but i but I really appreciated hearing all that you said about how um fear robs us of life. I mean, you didn't say that exactly, but I think you said that fear keeps you from living. um And I think it's very true. I think it's incredibly true.

40:39.47
Kevin Shock
that we we miss out on so much whenever we're wrapped up in fear. And I guess what part of what I'm thinking about, what I'm wondering about is why do we then choose fear over so many other things?

41:01.07
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

41:01.53
Kevin Shock
ah if If life If life with fear is no life at all, then why do we keep letting fear creep in the way that it does?

41:09.19
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

41:12.82
Kevin Shock
um and it And maybe it is because it it appeals to our our most basic instincts. um We talked a couple of episodes ago about that but wonderful author and theologian, Walter Wink, and we talked about the third way Um, because so much of life is fight or flight. And, and that just reminds me that so much of life is driven by fear. Um, but we fear, fear is a natural response, I think in a lot of situations, but I also think fear is something that we do not have to persist in. We can choose not to persist in it. And, um,

42:05.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so that. I just I agree with you wholeheartedly that fear isolates and fear. Fear makes life into something less than life.

42:19.16
Kevin Shock
um

42:22.44
Kevin Shock
And it's not it's not helpful. It's not it's not helpful on an individual scale or on a grander scale, either one, it's not helpful.

42:34.08
Kevin Shock
It might get us out of immediate danger, but if we're not in immediate danger, then it just over-protects us and isolates us. Yeah.

42:49.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that idea of over-protecting as you were talking there that

42:56.58
Nathan Pile
that fear causes us to overprotect. And that in that overprotection then, it's like anything else in in in life when we have when we have too much of it, it actually becomes a detriment to us. So we overprotect and so, and in in out of fear, we over protect ourselves, our children.

43:26.89
Nathan Pile
um

43:30.52
Nathan Pile
But if we if it you know it's one thing to protect against certain things as best as you can. But when we over protect, we start to say no to other possibilities. And so we lose out on, on living.

43:49.61
Nathan Pile
Like we're not gonna, we're never gonna leave our house because it's not safe. And so we we don't have connections with other people. We don't see beautiful sunsets um falling behind gorgeous mountains because we've never traveled anywhere to see it.

44:10.57
Nathan Pile
um You know, we've never seen the ah glass-like lake calm, perfectly calm lake because it's too scary to go out into the wilderness.

44:22.25
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm, mm hmm.

44:24.25
Nathan Pile
um

44:28.04
Nathan Pile
And so that that piece of over-protecting, I think its it's a pretty common, like I find that I have to push myself at times as ah as a father,

44:40.54
Nathan Pile
Um, raising a daughter in sometimes a terrifying world, you know, do I let my daughter ride her bike on the road?

44:51.86
Nathan Pile
Um, when I was a kid, my parents let me ride my bike on the road.

44:53.13
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

44:58.16
Nathan Pile
Um, like I was young, 10, nine, maybe even.

45:04.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:05.87
Nathan Pile
Now those were, we called them the back roads.

45:05.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:09.54
Nathan Pile
They weren't the major route running through town, but they were still roads. They were paved.

45:15.01
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

45:16.09
Nathan Pile
Cars were on them. We had to go around the cars. ah you know Cars had to go around us. ah

45:25.53
Nathan Pile
But you know now there's this, well, it's not that I don't trust my daughter, it's that I don't trust anyone else. I don't try the trust the people in their cars. um And so then there's a part of me that has now limited the independence of my daughter, of teaching her independence, of being able to make choices on her own, that I think just then spirals out of control, that yeah that that she can be she'll be a grown adult and and not have taken risks.

45:45.63
Kevin Shock
Mmhmm.

46:02.02
Nathan Pile
And unfortunately I do see that when I work with our young adults to- today, um the lack of risk taking that was taken you know taken when they were younger. And so now they're in their 20s and the idea of taking, taking a risk and something that they don't know is so terrifying to them that they can't ah can't even do that. It's too much anxiety. They're paralyzed in fear.

46:28.92
Nathan Pile
They're paralyzed and their their arms aren't moved. What was the phrase? that we Their hands, you know, their hands fall because, yeah, paralyzed from panic.

46:35.50
Kevin Shock
I'm paralyzed from panic, yeah.

46:39.65
Nathan Pile
So, you know, that that part of, um like, how do we give ourselves a healthy dose of of protection, yet at the same time recognizing that we can't control everything?

46:40.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

46:58.07
Nathan Pile
you know As a parent, there that i er I try to err on a side that I'm allowing my daughter to experience something instead of me having made sure that everything is perfectly 100% safe because there's there's nothing, there's there's no situation that I can 100% protect completely.

47:21.97
Nathan Pile
because it's got other people involved. um Yet i I can convince myself that I can, or at least I think I do, and or I'm limiting what experiences she gets to experience. And so how does that get in the way of living life, of of of having new experiences, of ah seeing what God intends for us to see?

47:52.20
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

47:53.40
Nathan Pile
So.

47:55.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um

47:58.30
Kevin Shock
I'm just I remember having a conversation several years ago with ah somebody about, you know, about oh all of these, all these bad people in the world and how we have to protect our children and all that kind of stuff and trying to explain that

48:18.68
Kevin Shock
Oh, my goodness, there's there's a lot of dog traffic right now. They need to be right near me, apparently.

48:24.02
Nathan Pile
Hee hee hee.

48:24.17
Kevin Shock
um Trying to explain that ah that the. The statistics, the the um the occurrence of violent crime had actually plummeted in the years since I had grown up, and it's still the case the that that the crime the crime rate has plummeted.

48:40.60
Nathan Pile
Mmm. Mmm.

48:47.90
Kevin Shock
And I'm not saying it's zero, not by any stretch of the imagination, but it's much less we protect children now more than I was protected as a child.

48:59.38
Kevin Shock
And the world was more dangerous, like empirically, empirically speaking, when I was a child.

49:03.27
Nathan Pile
when you were a child

49:06.43
Kevin Shock
Yes.

49:06.93
Nathan Pile
know

49:07.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah. There was a greater chance of me being abducted of, of, you know, uh,

49:08.00
Nathan Pile
me

49:13.37
Kevin Shock
of violence happening to me, you all that kind of stuff, there was a greater chance of that happening. But now we, um I'm I'm just surprised. And this is not, ah it's not a judgment on anybody because I think that think that our whole society has gone this way.

49:27.88
Nathan Pile
when you were a child.

49:31.16
Kevin Shock
When I visited my ah my nephew and nieces a few months ago, um they were excited because you know like they would go on bike rides with me. And I think that they go on bike rides a lot, but but there was there was a little bit of, at least I got a little bit of a feeling of you know make sure make sure you stick with Uncle Kevin you know where you're going. like And they have ah they have a big neighborhood that they can ride in, but there are parts of it that has,

49:59.97
Kevin Shock
you know, fairly decent amount of traffic. um So they do have to be careful. And I was kind of trying to teach them, you know, how how to ride in a line, ride against the, on the shoulder so that you stay safe, you stay out of traffic's way, all that kind of stuff.

50:12.11
Nathan Pile
no

50:15.49
Kevin Shock
um But, you know, like you were talking about, Nathan, when I was a kid, i I learned how to ride a bike. I got my first bicycle when I was, I think when I was just about to turn six,

50:28.70
Kevin Shock
And that next summer I rode everywhere all over town.

50:33.71
Nathan Pile
right

50:34.20
Kevin Shock
ah look it I was a six or a seven year old.

50:34.52
Nathan Pile
yeah

50:37.53
Kevin Shock
And I, I've told people it was like getting my driver's license and ah granted, you know, it was, uh, my, I'd ride to my grandparents' house across town and I knew the first thing I'd get off my bike, I call my mom and make sure she knows that I got there.

50:51.49
Nathan Pile
Right?

50:53.87
Kevin Shock
Okay.

50:54.54
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

50:55.18
Kevin Shock
Um,

50:55.95
Nathan Pile
Right.

50:56.76
Kevin Shock
But just the fact that I was like, I was allowed to do that on my own. I don't think that that would happen today.

51:00.88
Nathan Pile
right yeah Yeah.

51:03.60
Kevin Shock
Not in the same way. So.

51:05.80
Nathan Pile
Well, we were going to let our daughter um ride one mile to her friend's house and we called to tell the mother that that was going to be happening um and the mother's like, I'll just come get her.

51:23.29
Kevin Shock
Well.

51:24.86
Nathan Pile
Like we were like, but you're kind of missing them what we're trying to do here.

51:25.54
Kevin Shock
well

51:29.43
Kevin Shock
It's, it's nice that you're willing to do this.

51:30.76
Nathan Pile
out yeah yeah like It's not that we're not willing to drive her the one mile, it's that we're trying to...

51:31.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

51:38.38
Nathan Pile
And she was just like, well, she can't bike a mile. and like She's 13. She can bike a mile.

51:47.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right.

51:47.73
Nathan Pile
But the mother wouldn't allow it to happen. So we didn't do it um that time. We did it someplace else, but we didn't do it there.

51:54.59
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

51:54.94
Nathan Pile
like So like, but, but, you know, ah you know, my daughter made, she didn't look like she was overly disappointed, but like, I would think that there would be a little disappointment in being able to say I can bike to my friends.

52:11.50
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

52:13.77
Nathan Pile
You know, that's a part of growing up. so

52:16.95
Kevin Shock
Right. And and I think that we in some regard, again, I don't have empirical evidence for this, but I think we can see how there are. um There is evidence that young people nowadays, and I'm not even talking about Rachel's age, I'm talking about older than that are less independent than what they used to be.

52:39.67
Nathan Pile
yeah

52:40.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah. and and perhaps have been over protected or shielded from ah certain things so that now they're over protected and shielded from a lot of things.

52:54.97
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

52:54.99
Kevin Shock
So.

52:57.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I'm not, ah you know again, I'm a camp director, so I'm not proposing that things be unsafe.

53:03.13
Kevin Shock
Oh, no, not at all.

53:05.68
Nathan Pile
But I do worry that we,

53:10.69
Nathan Pile
that we've we isolate too much because of fear.

53:13.20
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

53:15.31
Nathan Pile
and Yes.

53:15.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah, if we if we live in fear, we're going to presume that things are less safe than they actually are. And then and then what happens then we become we overprotect and we become more isolated.

53:27.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:27.96
Nathan Pile
right

53:29.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:30.88
Nathan Pile
And become more divided because of that.

53:33.06
Kevin Shock
And right, if we're more isolated, then we're more divided.

53:35.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

53:36.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yep.

53:40.32
Kevin Shock
Yep, absolutely.

53:41.09
Nathan Pile
So. Alright, some additional texts that you ah might be interested in. in reading that connect with um this these reading this reading that we've taken from Zephaniah. Another reading from is from the Old Testament, or First Testament Isaiah, the 12th chapter, verses two through six. i am Again, this is, in in your midst is the Holy One of Israel. So Isaiah, um you know, being prophet being prophet Isaiah here,

54:19.86
Nathan Pile
um in that 12th chapter of Isaiah. Philippians chapter four, verses four to seven, rejoice, the Lord is near. And there so there we pick up that theme of rejoicing again, um that we talked about a little bit. And then Luke the third chapter, verses seven to 18, one more powerful is coming and two will baptize with fire. And so this is the proclamation of John,

54:46.91
Nathan Pile
um to the people about who who is coming.

54:53.90
Nathan Pile
um As always, Kevin, I'm thankful for your reflections and our time together as we as we tend our faith. ah We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

55:06.85
Kevin Shock
And peace.