Episode 04: Micah 5:2-5a

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How has God changed your life through little things?

Additional texts:
Luke 1:46b-55
Psalm 80:1-7
Hebrews 10:5-10
Luke 1:39-45

Transcript

00:01.69
Kevin Shock
Hello, Tend fiefdom.

00:05.49
Nathan Pile
Fiefdom!?

00:05.67
Kevin Shock
ah Nate. Yeah, I don't know. That those was the first. It was the first other like ah geographical thing that popped into my head. Like Tend nation is your thing. But ah now that I'm thinking of it, I don't like Tend fiefdom.

00:18.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah, you're gonna have to stick with nation.

00:18.89
Kevin Shock
But anyway.

00:20.70
Nathan Pile
Stick with nation, my friend.

00:22.67
Kevin Shock
ah

00:22.76
Nathan Pile
It's like, holy crow, we just elevated ourselves there.

00:26.86
Kevin Shock
ah

00:28.57
Nathan Pile
Fiefdom.

00:28.57
Kevin Shock
Well, anyway. welcome to Welcome to another episode of 10. Nathan and I are so excited to ah attend scripture with each other. That sounded almost sarcastic. It's not. ah I am excited. this is a I'd rather be doing this than any other thing that is on my to-do list right now. Let me just say that.

00:46.02
Kevin Shock
um

00:46.60
Nathan Pile
Of course, one of those things is to have hip surgery, everyone.

00:47.12
Kevin Shock
but

00:49.16
Nathan Pile
So that means that um ah ah that he he's picking us over um over the knife.

01:00.69
Kevin Shock
ah but Well, I don't I don't get a choice.

01:02.15
Nathan Pile
That's probably not true.

01:02.73
Kevin Shock
I can't just.

01:02.87
Nathan Pile
he probably He'd probably choose to have hip surgery sooner. um

01:06.26
Kevin Shock
No, no, if the doctor, if the doctor said, hey, we can do it in 10 minutes, I would I'm sorry, I'd stop recording this episode and go do it. But anyway. um Yeah, no, this I'm I'm glad we're doing this today. This is ah as we record this, the season of Advent has just started. As you listen to this, the season of Advent will be wrapping up.

01:27.90
Kevin Shock
um And so I, Advent's one of my favorite times of year and I'm excited to talk about some of these texts that I don't think that we have talked about yet in, um, in our, any of our episodes.

01:40.09
Nathan Pile
in our discussions, past discussions.

01:40.34
Kevin Shock
So yeah. So it's a today, uh, as we, as we prepare for the fourth Sunday in Advent, we're looking at Micah chapter five versus two through five a.

01:54.61
Kevin Shock
and Nathan, I picked a translation where there's a break between 5a and 5b, so I think we'll know when to stop in time.

02:01.15
Nathan Pile
Ooh la la.

02:02.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, the translation we're looking at is the ah New Revised Standard Version updated edition. ah You may have that um nearby you ah in print copy, or if not, you can go to biblegateway dot.com or the Bible Gateway app,

02:18.82
Kevin Shock
and find lots of translations, including all of the ones that Nathan and I use on ah that resource. Our three questions for today, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how has God changed your life through little things?

02:38.81
Nathan Pile
A little information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white in our late forties, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran church and we were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

03:03.67
Nathan Pile
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience. The fifth chapter of Micah.

03:24.35
Nathan Pile
But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me, one who is to rule in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days. Therefore he shall give them up until the time when she who is in labor has brought forth. Then the rest of his kindred shall return to the people of Israel. And he shall stand and feed his flock in the strength of the Lord,

04:03.09
Nathan Pile
and the majesty of the name of the Lord his God and they shall live secure for now he shall be great to the ends of the earth and he shall be the one of peace.

04:20.72
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with group you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Kevin um shares his response to what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text.

04:36.63
Kevin Shock
Uh, there, there was a lot that kind of captured my attention. So i I don't know which to go with. I don't want to just go with the last one I heard, because that's the one ringing in my head. I think that, um, I, one of the things that I heard there was, uh, whose origin is from old, from ancient, from of old, from ancient days. Um, it just,

05:04.44
Kevin Shock
strikes me because we we human beings look for the nice shiny new thing and the person the person who has um the person who has the best new idea or the the one who is innovating in a new way.

05:25.38
Kevin Shock
um

05:27.95
Kevin Shock
And so there's something i don't there's something about this text that just makes me feel like it comforts me. It's not, this is some this is some brash new ruler who's gonna be raised up and vanquish all of all of the nation's enemies. This is someone who's going to um come, but who who is rooted in what has already been and and is going to create a nation of peace. um There's lots of like feeding

06:03.14
Kevin Shock
stand standing and feeding, ah not o ah you know not um rallying and fighting, but standing and feeding. And in that last line that we end with, and he shall be the one of peace, ah this is a real restoration kind of text and restoration that does not necessarily

06:25.37
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

06:31.77
Kevin Shock
require that other things or other people are going to be destroyed, at least not in this, not in these three and a half verses that we read today.

06:43.50
Kevin Shock
um It may be somewhere else. um In fact, 5B kind of points to it, but it doesn't even, but but it says you know it says if if if the enemies, if the Assyrians come into our land and tread upon our soil,

06:51.30
Nathan Pile
yeah

06:58.79
Kevin Shock
we will raise against them seven shepherds and eight rulers.

07:03.11
Kevin Shock
So even there, it's it's shepherds and rulers, not um not soldiers.

07:10.23
Kevin Shock
um yeah i so there's But anyway, i'm I'm getting far afield that that this ruler, this person who's gonna be raised up, who's going to be birthed into this nation is rooted in the things that have already been it is also a comfort to me. there's There's something comforting to me. And it goes beyond nostalgia of um some someone new embracing what has already served us well. and And that's not the same as saying, oh, let's just go back to the good old days. that's I hear in that this is someone who is going to

07:55.41
Kevin Shock
um

07:58.15
Kevin Shock
going to work on new problems in new ways, but they're not doing this alone. They're doing this with wisdom from the ages past. And I think that's what that's what attracts me to that image in this text.

08:13.99
Nathan Pile
Well, I think my overall um piece, I would echo what you're saying.

08:15.18
Kevin Shock
What about you, Nathan? What what word, phrase, or image ah

08:22.52
Nathan Pile
There's a level of comfort here. ah my My words are just before yours. um But i find I find comfort here in these first these early this early verse um of this text. And for me, my my where my mind went to as I was reading was this phrase of who who are one of the little clans of Judah. And so as as um a lifelong Christian, I think

08:59.16
Nathan Pile
the amount of times um since the pandemic, it probably, you know, i've I heard it before the pandemic, but I've heard it way, way more since the pandemic of how how tiny, how small our churches are and how um like that, like it's a it's a a part of blame, it's a part of,

09:15.69
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

09:27.37
Nathan Pile
Like, like the, you know, we're, we can't be the church because we're so tiny or we were not able to do what we think the church ought to do because of our size. Um, so, um, so that, that, that piece of, um,

09:49.06
Nathan Pile
here, Micah is writing to what I would consider to be a, a Very human instinct to kind of complain about we're not big enough.

09:59.22
Nathan Pile
We don't have enough clout we're not going to be able to do anything and So here's this word of you know, something is going to come forth from you.

10:01.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

10:08.49
Nathan Pile
That's going to rule Israel It's going to to have that old wisdom that you you were kind of talking about that's gonna lead the way um But buddy, but first they want to make sure that um

10:23.77
Nathan Pile
Bethlehem, which would have been a major city outside of Jerusalem, um

10:32.07
Nathan Pile
Micah is still kind of saying, hey, you who feel like you're small and tiny of this bigger bigger country of Judah,

10:44.18
Nathan Pile
um

10:49.47
Nathan Pile
like big things will happen in the midst of of this little clan. And so, you know, for us as God's people today, we, you and I are not bashful about talking about that we believe that the church is shrinking and it is shrinking so that God can prune the church. We taught, you know,

11:11.75
Nathan Pile
and I don't need us to talk about that anymore today. then then but and So if somebody's hearing this for the first time, go back and listen to any number of podcasts.

11:14.93
Kevin Shock
Mmhmm.

11:20.00
Nathan Pile
I can't tell you which ones. We should probably go through and and put some kind of a a word search together, um Kevin, and and so that people could find those kind of easier.

11:32.54
Nathan Pile
but but but so that you could find when we're talking about that pruning piece um a little bit more. But but I do believe that we're not we're not small enough yet as the church. We're not healthy yet as a healthy plant. And so there's still pruning that will happen. um We will still get smaller as the church, which is sad news. It breaks my heart as a lifelong Lutheran Christian to think that the church is getting smaller. But right now in our world,

12:04.80
Nathan Pile
society has said that um is is teaching that we don't need faith, we don't need God. It's all about me and what I want in our world and um people drink the Kool-Aid.

12:17.52
Nathan Pile
you know so So we have to recognize that that that we need each other and that we need ah um love and that we need a vision and the gift of the Holy Spirit that is that is given to us freely, um that we need those things to be able to be the people of God and to accomplish God's way in the world. And these little clans of Judah, these little churches of of small synods, um these little congregations, whether it be in the middle of a major city or out in the hills and valleys um of the countryside.

13:00.55
Nathan Pile
God's still going to be working through them because God, in as Micah is saying here, god is working God works in these little clans.

13:10.94
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

13:12.82
Nathan Pile
And here God is talking about leading leading Israel because of of that. And so, yeah, there's there's hope for me here ah without going too far down the bunny hole.

13:26.57
Nathan Pile
I think there's, there's um There are things that we can do in and small settings in our small communities that will bring about and bigger changes as other small communities. See them and say, oh, we could do that and and adopt our patterns. I believe that the the way, when you talk about innovation, I believe the way forward for us now is is going to be found in local communities.

13:55.85
Nathan Pile
um is going to is going to be the thing that changes the church and leads leads the church forward. I know there's big conversations about how do we change the hierarchy of of our national denomination, but I'm not positive we know how to do that.

14:12.39
Nathan Pile
um

14:13.02
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

14:14.15
Nathan Pile
I'm not sure we know what we need as a leadership tier or a hierarchy because we don't know yet what kind of congregations and what we're going to be doing in congregations in our local contexts. um Those need to shift, I believe. so um First, and then we could build whatever the the structure is that is needed. We could reduce a structure to give us money and and resources to do some of that, I think, but I'm not in that kind of a position to advocate for those things.

14:44.31
Nathan Pile
Well, I could advocate for them. I I am not in the place i'm not in a room that gets to make those decisions. But I could advocate that way, that that the little clans of Judah is how God is is going to reform the church again in whatever that looks like. so So I think there's hope here, theres and and that to me is inspiring. Again, it's Advent, so it's it's a reason why it's your favorite season of the year.

15:11.97
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Yeah, there's hope. There's hope. There's inspiration. Yeah, I I mean, I just you you said it all. You said it all great. So I yeah i don't need to add anything, but yeah. um I think the scope, our scope of vision is too great and.

15:33.92
Kevin Shock
um and And both both in time and space, we we spend a lot of time and this isn't a wrong thing to do, we spent but we spend a lot of time you know sending things to like through the channels that we know to send them um to help people who are in need. ah and And we also do, I think as congregations, take care of needs in our community, but I think there are a lot of needs that aren't as obvious

16:09.79
Kevin Shock
And sometimes a need for people is that they need a community where they can feel safe in figuring out who God is for them. And they and they need a place where they can, um like when they're trying to escape the the hurriedness of their life, they need a place where they can land for a little bit. Yeah, they' there's just there's so much there's so much ministry to be done right outside of our doors.

16:39.55
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

16:40.37
Kevin Shock
um

16:40.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and that's exactly when I said there was directions I didn't want to get into. Those are the exact directions you're right on. that that Those are the directions that the church needs to be.

16:48.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

16:51.71
Nathan Pile
um Like, it's not that we have to change our theology. It's not that we have to...

16:59.10
Nathan Pile
ah we We need to spend time with Bible study. But it's not that we need to do more and more and more Bible study. The thing that we, the the thing that our world needs is a place to connect.

17:13.08
Nathan Pile
Um, and you can do that in small spaces in small places, small clans.

17:13.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

17:18.01
Kevin Shock
Sure.

17:19.66
Nathan Pile
That's actually better.

17:20.32
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

17:22.00
Nathan Pile
So, yeah, do a second time.

17:25.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Looking at Micah chapter two. But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, you who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me, one who is to rule in Israel.

17:40.97
Kevin Shock
whose origin is from old, from ancient days. Therefore, he shall give them up until the time when she who is in labor has brought forth. Then the rest of his kindred shall return to the people of Israel, and he shall stand and feed his flock in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God. And they shall live secure, for now he shall be great to the ends of the earth, and he shall be the one of peace.

18:11.90
Kevin Shock
Nathan toured what is God calling you in this text.

18:16.88
Nathan Pile
That phrase live secure is ringing in my ears as you read it. um As I was listening, no, I don't want us to feel like ah that word secure is only about, yes, it is about safety.

18:37.01
Nathan Pile
um But I think there's a lot more that gets wrapped up in that. And so, you know, to live, we we see we We live in a very anxious time.

18:49.74
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

18:51.62
Nathan Pile
and um And our fears, we have lots of fears on on on so many levels of, of and and again and and rightfully it's so.

19:08.70
Nathan Pile
the you know The world has, there are,

19:14.80
Nathan Pile
people that are out there that are seeking to do others harm.

19:25.20
Nathan Pile
But some of the the stats that I look at as a camp director and trying to make sense of how we how we can help our families um raise their kids, how we can how we can help those kids when they come to our site, how would we can help our young adults when they're working here.

19:41.57
Nathan Pile
most of the Most of the stats from when you and I were kids oh of crime, of drug use, um of all of those things, most of those were higher in our lifetime than they are today.

19:57.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I literally just had this conversation with somebody else.

20:03.85
Nathan Pile
So, ah well good, then you know all the stats. So, uh, cause I don't have them right here at the tip of my tongue, but, but like this idea of being secure, I think is really important.

20:07.16
Kevin Shock
Well, I don't know all the stats, but yeah.

20:13.25
Nathan Pile
Yes. And and we live that way. We, we, we, like I as a parent want my kid to have a secure life and I as a camp director want every camper. My number one goal as a camp director is for camp to be safe.

20:26.13
Nathan Pile
um

20:26.28
Kevin Shock
who

20:27.18
Nathan Pile
Not comfortable is is the thing that I've had to add in the past probably three or four years. I don't want you to be, I'm not always going to make sure, I'm not going to guarantee that you're going to feel comfortable, but I am going to make sure that you're safe. um And that is a piece of of pushing our own personal boundaries of what makes us feel comfortable.

20:48.70
Nathan Pile
because we have some things in our society, some of ah the structures of our society that have that have been baked in there that need to be pulled out. If we're gonna say that all people are welcome, then we have to figure out how all people feel welcomed.

21:05.08
Nathan Pile
If we want all everybody to to have value, then we have to make sure that all people have value, that that they feel valued. And to do that,

21:15.47
Kevin Shock
Mmhmm.

21:17.08
Nathan Pile
It means that some of us that are that have benefited from the structures that are in place, specifically um middle class, um white and male, those those would all three be things but sometimes you can get rid of the male and it just could be middle class and white.

21:33.00
Nathan Pile
um we've benefited in in some of our structures of our society and so forth. And I think some of this paradigm shift is becoming more and more clear to me, part of how we're how the our world needs to shift, how we're going to reform for these next 500 years is if we're gonna say that people are free, then we need to make sure that they feel that they're free.

21:55.52
Kevin Shock
Mmhmm.

21:57.08
Nathan Pile
um and and And so then we have to we have to remove things that are in the way so that all people can live a life of dignity can live secure you know that they're that they're not that they don't feel threatened that they they feel like they can put up they can eat you know they're not or where they're going to lay their head at night you know all of those pieces help us to feel secure and so um a part of of this reformation means i think we're going to have to rewrite so some of our social contracts which is

22:33.49
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

22:34.21
Nathan Pile
really, really hard, big work.

22:36.45
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

22:36.79
Nathan Pile
Like I don't even know how to do it.

22:38.29
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

22:38.47
Nathan Pile
I'll be honest. Like, and so, and what I mean by this is here's my one example. I have many examples, but here's one.

22:44.69
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

22:45.08
Nathan Pile
um If we're gonna say that um we're gonna care for our planet and yet we still allow businesses and companies to hurt our planet so that they can make a profit and there's no penalty for them whatsoever, or it's it's a slap on the wrist that it doesn't cause them to stop doing what they're doing, then that's a bad social contract. We have a bad social contract, so a new social contract has to be written.

23:19.06
Nathan Pile
If we're going to say that we're going to that we need to take care of our planet because it's the only one we have to live on, and that we want to make sure it gets passed down for every generation, well, that means there's we have to do some we have to write some different rules. There have to be different ground rules that are written. And right now, those ground rules favor the people that make the money and and hurt the environment. um We can't hurt the environment anymore.

23:45.11
Nathan Pile
You know, i was I was looking, I was talking about hunting with some of my um family members this past weekend over Thanksgiving because it's hunting season in Pennsylvania. And um and so I looked up um a map from Millersville University of of, they've tracked the temperature every month of every year since like 1912 or something like that.

24:10.28
Nathan Pile
And so it shows you how much warmer we are. So like the last 25 years, I've been the warmest 25 years ever in the history since we started to record in over a hundred years. and it's and ah and And nowhere in that hundred year cycle is there a period of 25 years where it gets really, really warm and and then it goes back. like Like we're hurting the environment.

24:33.62
Nathan Pile
We're doing it. We're causing the climate to change.

24:34.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:37.33
Nathan Pile
And so until we take responsibility for that and write a different social contract, this idea of living secure, that That's what I feel called to. And so that like this passage kind of drives me to say, um it's not just about living safe. It means that I'm passing on something that to to the to my daughter and the future generations, to campers that come to camp so that they too have a planet.

25:04.57
Nathan Pile
that they get to live on um that cares for them in the same ways that this planet has cared for me and for um the billions of people that live on it today. But like we're we have a short, defined window of time that we have to move on these things, or we'll do irreparable damage to our home. And so that's one social contract that that I talk about that has to be. like We have to look at it, and we have to rewrite it.

25:32.38
Nathan Pile
um And it's going to take people in local communities standing up and saying, this is wrong. This this this shouldn't be happening here.

25:45.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

25:45.30
Nathan Pile
um um Or let's do it better. Let's find another solution. And so locally for me, that you know that's a conversation a lot of times here that we talk about coal or wind power.

25:59.26
Nathan Pile
um because they put a lot of windmills up here in Somerset County as a way to provide electricity. Well, we've done coal in this region for a long, long, long period. And so people are upset that they've lost coal jobs. I get that.

26:14.62
Nathan Pile
and And we need to do a better job in in politics and Chamber of Commerce is to find other ways to bring other employment here, but it can't be about coal anymore. We have to move towards the green energy stuff because it hurts our environment too badly. I just talked about the 25 hottest years.

26:38.20
Nathan Pile
so um So those pieces, like that to me is what this what I feel called to here in this passage is is yes, there's hope, but but there's also a call toward of hoping to make this vision, this dream of living secure, what that looks like.

26:44.73
Kevin Shock
who

26:55.97
Nathan Pile
Yes, God is gonna be a part of it.

26:56.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

26:57.49
Nathan Pile
Yes, God is going to lead that way. um and And so I think there's a place for us as as God's people in the church to be top pushing and guiding that, if that makes sense.

27:07.38
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah Yeah, I i think there are i mean there's a lot there that I want to comment on, so I'll just kind of turn that into my answer to the second question. One is that um I think shifting the narrative is something I feel called to do.

27:19.49
Nathan Pile
and

27:22.79
Nathan Pile
yeah

27:22.80
Kevin Shock
ah And you had mentioned about you know all of those statistics about crime rate dropping, drug use dropping. um and Now, overall, there are certainly areas where drug use and crime have increased or those things have shifted.

27:37.32
Nathan Pile
Sure. Absolutely.

27:39.12
Kevin Shock
um But ah it we we technically, statistically speaking, live in a less dangerous world. now in regards to those things than we have previously.

27:54.11
Nathan Pile
Right.

27:54.58
Kevin Shock
But there are people and systems, people and systems who have created this narrative of you have to be afraid about all of these things that could happen, about all of these things that not even that are happening, but or or they say, well, they're happening elsewhere and they're going to happen to you too if you don't

27:57.60
Nathan Pile
Other things.

28:19.34
Kevin Shock
Do this. um ah You know, I'm like I'm amazed by the amount of. ah This isn't I'm not I'm not being judgmental about anything, anyone who's listening to this, but but I notice when I.

28:38.03
Kevin Shock
Have walked the dogs around town, how many houses have security cameras up?

28:43.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

28:43.85
Kevin Shock
And things like that, and um I mean, now very few people who listen to this podcast never really, we leave our doors unlocked.

28:54.85
Kevin Shock
Like all day long.

28:55.59
Nathan Pile
Right.

28:55.65
Kevin Shock
I mean, yeah. it it but i think But I think part of that is that we feel secure and we have neighbors who do not feel secure.

29:08.95
Nathan Pile
right

29:09.11
Kevin Shock
And if we're living on the same block, what's the difference?

29:12.68
Nathan Pile
Right.

29:14.39
Kevin Shock
that's ah That's a, I think that's an important question to ask.

29:17.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

29:17.52
Kevin Shock
um If we have zero cam, now we don't leave our doors unlocked. for We do lock them at night because we're all upstairs, including the dogs. If anyone wants to try to to enter our house during the day when Heath is here, good luck to you.

29:37.59
Kevin Shock
like leave your leave your card. So if you want to sue us for the medical bills that we'll ensue, if you get out of the house, then good luck to you. But anyway, ah yeah ah um yeah we have a we have a different security system.

29:52.34
Nathan Pile
so You just have a different guard system.

29:56.25
Nathan Pile
All right.

29:56.74
Kevin Shock
That's right. But and when we you know when we go on vacation, yes, all the doors are locked. um But I think there is ah there's a difference of narrative there. um And I think it comes down to the question of you know when I was a kid, i did we talk about this before?

30:12.34
Kevin Shock
it Was this another conversation I had somewhere else? you know When I was six years old, I was riding my bike all over town.

30:17.85
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that was us, who we talked about last week, yeah.

30:19.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I know that there are parents, neighbors of mine, who who won't let their kids that age do that.

30:27.88
Nathan Pile
yeah

30:28.40
Kevin Shock
um So narrative is one thing. i feel and And I feel like you know it's it's not a narrative. it's not a um it's not ah It's not a pie in the sky kind of like, oh, let's just talk about good things narrative.

30:41.67
Kevin Shock
It's a let's tell each other the truth and let's lean on hope narrative.

30:44.52
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

30:49.10
Kevin Shock
that That's the narrative that I'm talking about. and And it's a narrative for you and for me, Nathan, that is born out of good news being delivered to people who are living in troublesome times. ah Just what we're reading here, and this is that the god is God is going to birth someone one into the world. and And we know that God already has birthed that person into the world.

31:16.64
Kevin Shock
And yet, day in and day out, so many of us who um who affirm that we follow this one act like he's not even around.

31:32.65
Nathan Pile
No.

31:33.34
Kevin Shock
Because because we're afraid. Because we're we're afraid we are paying more attention to our enemies than our neighbors in a negative way.

31:44.75
Kevin Shock
And um and we're we we want we want things to be destroyed instead of fed. So that's one thing um in response to what you said. the other The other kind of narrative or social contract that I would really like us to rewrite is, um and it's related to the whole ah taking control of the narrative or or shaping the narrative and it comes down to commerce, which, you know, that's my broken record thing anyway. But here we are. We just as we record this, we just came through. ah Today is Cyber Monday. You know, we had Black Friday, then Small Business Saturday, then I don't I don't know.

32:32.68
Kevin Shock
go hunting on Sunday in Pennsylvania, then ah Cyber Monday, and then Tuesday is Giving Tuesday.

32:39.92
Kevin Shock
So if you have any money left from Good Friday, Small Business Saturday, and Cyber Monday, you can give that, oh yeah, well I said good, yeah, Black Friday, whoops, okay, it's not Good Friday, it's Black Friday.

32:42.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Black Friday, it's Black Friday, Kevin. Yeah, yeah.

32:53.53
Kevin Shock
um That's good for somebody. ah

32:56.76
Nathan Pile
That's true.

32:58.56
Kevin Shock
um And so it's just this, like again, it's the world sends us these messages of, there's nowhere in there that says, here's a day where maybe you think about not buying anything. it's it's Here's a day where you go to all of the large,

33:20.91
Kevin Shock
corporate department stores that you go to.

33:22.88
Nathan Pile
hmm

33:23.41
Kevin Shock
Here's a day where you go to the small businesses in town. Don't forget about them too. Here's a day when you order stuff online. but' Where's the day where we just say, let's let's stop spending period for a day.

33:38.65
Kevin Shock
And and I think about, you know, um the choices we make about where we where we spend our money shape the world that we live in.

33:51.60
Kevin Shock
and um And I think you know I talked about people and systems that spin the narrative. um you know One of the fear tactics is ah you know we don't have any jobs in the United States. And this is a political fear tactic. And and you know I think that both of the major political parties use it. you know We'll bring more jobs back doing this. And we'll do this to bring more jobs back and and and hurt hurt corporations overseas when the reality is we've gotten ourselves in this in this um situation by by spending and consuming the way that we are used to doing.

34:31.02
Nathan Pile
right

34:32.19
Kevin Shock
um you know Our soon to be inaugurated president is talking about tariffs a lot, um but i I haven't heard anyone talking about like you know penalizing um CEOs who make 100,000 times more than their next highest paid employee.

34:53.11
Nathan Pile
Bright. Millions and millions of dollars. Yeah.

35:00.64
Kevin Shock
like That's a problem. ah you know The profit, putting profit above all things is a problem.

35:02.32
Nathan Pile
you know

35:07.08
Kevin Shock
It's it's what killed the railroad in the United States. It's what i mean it's all kinds of things that ah are affected by the narratives that we proclaim and thereby the ways that we act. um So yeah, it just like the the smallest choices, the smallest choices. I recently found out I ah have it ah have a thing against a certain corporation that probably is getting a lot of business on Cyber Monday, because for some of the reasons that you, um

35:43.61
Kevin Shock
ah that you name Nathan about our environment. There's there's a certain corporation that if you if you buy something from them and you don't like it, you can send it back. And you can do that 16,000 times until you have the thing. And and that and and those trucks, those airplane, those jets, all that stuff will drive and fly back and forth from the from the warehouse to your house until you get the thing that you like. That is super cheap because some kid is building it. And ah and and all of that all of those carbon emissions, everything is just you know like, we don't think about all of those things.

36:22.34
Kevin Shock
Um, so I do, uh, you know, like the other day I was looking for, I was looking for a pair of shoes that would be helpful for me. And so I did go online and I found something that, you know, I realized might be at a store, a local store, which wasn't a small business, but it was a local store. And I called them on the telephone that you can still do this.

36:51.99
Kevin Shock
and and asked the young man who worked there, do you have these in stock? And he said, we have one pair left. Would you like me to put it aside? And I said, yes, please. And I said, I'll be in before you close tonight to get them. And no no place that I order from online could do that for me.

37:11.78
Nathan Pile
no Nope.

37:13.47
Kevin Shock
could find me.

37:14.10
Nathan Pile
Nope.

37:14.11
Kevin Shock
and And then when I got there and the young man handed me the shoes, he said, would you like to try them on before you leave? And I said, yes, I would as a matter of fact. And so I left there with a pair of shoes that I knew fit me.

37:28.36
Kevin Shock
And all it took was a little human interaction to make that happen.

37:31.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

37:32.31
Kevin Shock
um But it's like those those things that, did it did it take more, it like technically it took more of my time to do that. because I couldn't just order it from my recliner and wait for it.

37:46.26
Nathan Pile
right

37:46.42
Kevin Shock
But um but also it saved me a lot of time because I needed the i needed the product and I knew I was gonna get something that I wanted and was going to work for me.

37:57.52
Nathan Pile
and you didn't have to send it back.

37:59.17
Kevin Shock
And I didn't have to send it back, right, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

37:59.42
Nathan Pile
Like sending it back is a hassle.

38:04.35
Kevin Shock
So I mean, you know again, there's narrative, there's there's truth and there's and there's half truth. you know, sitting on your recliner and ordering things and just being able to return them at your will, like that's convenient.

38:10.13
Nathan Pile
Right.

38:15.41
Kevin Shock
hey that It's convenient in one regard, but it's not, yeah, but it's not it's not entirely convenient if it's something that you need in ah in a timely manner, yeah.

38:19.69
Nathan Pile
Ordering, ordering it is convenient.

38:29.61
Kevin Shock
So that's all to say. This this reading from Micah is about shifting the narrative.

38:39.45
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

38:40.47
Kevin Shock
You know, don't look at don't look at the don't look at the big leaders that you've been that you've asked for, like Israel and Judah did. Don't look to the big leaders that you've asked for to be raised up again and come and take care of all of your enemies and raise you up as this powerful nation. Look for someone who is ah who at their root is about what God is about.

39:10.09
Kevin Shock
And that is raising up mighty, not necessarily big, but but effective leaders from small clans and leaders who aren't gonna vanquish your enemies, but are instead going to focus on feeding you and building you up and raising you into a nation that is healthy and well.

39:36.42
Nathan Pile
No.

39:36.54
Kevin Shock
and and i think And I think that's part of the truth that we gloss over or that we overlook, not gloss over, overlook in our current social narrative. And that is we think our enemies are somebody else. And we don't consider that we may be our own worst enemy.

39:59.78
Kevin Shock
And the way to get healthy and well isn't to just get rid of everyone who threatens us, but to actually change the way that we live and and listen listen to God as to how we might do that best.

40:18.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

40:21.54
Nathan Pile
Amen.

40:21.88
Kevin Shock
Well, one why don't we look at it a third time, Nathan?

40:25.02
Nathan Pile
Third time.

40:31.46
Nathan Pile
But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me, one who is to rule in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days.

40:49.87
Nathan Pile
Therefore he shall give them up until the time when she who is in labor has brought forth. Then the rest of his kindred shall return to the people of Israel, and he shall stand and feed his flock in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God. And they shall live secure for now He shall be great to the ends of the earth, and he shall be the one of peace.

41:23.63
Nathan Pile
How has God changed your life through little things?

41:31.87
Kevin Shock
I don't know if I have specific examples, although i could probably I'm sure I could think of specific examples. I just think that I am more often shaped and affected and moved by one-on-one interactions or or small group interactions than I am by grand gestures.

41:58.08
Kevin Shock
for a whole broad group of people, if that makes sense.

42:01.66
Nathan Pile
Mm.

42:02.42
Kevin Shock
I more often see God present in just a conversation I have with somebody or sharing a meal with somebody or a kind gesture that somebody

42:17.15
Kevin Shock
that somebody gives toward me or or even, it doesn't even have to be toward me. It can be something that I see occurring between two other people. that It's that kind of stuff that makes me say, um this is what I want out of life.

42:33.06
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

42:34.67
Kevin Shock
not Not big sweeping change, although that would be fine too. I'm and i'm not saying that wouldn't be fine. but um But what I really want out of life is small things that caused me to take notice of the way that God is working and um and truth telling on a small scale ah and and building life and community with the people, not just the people who are around me, but the people who might be around me at any given moment. It doesn't necessarily just mean

43:11.00
Kevin Shock
the people in the town where I live. It could mean the congregations I visit. It could mean you know that the the towns that I travel to on vacation. it It could be any of that kind of stuff. That's the stuff that affects me. And that's the stuff that shapes me. um And and that's the those are the things, the the interactions, the relationships, the community. That's where I see God at work most clearly.

43:42.03
Kevin Shock
And so I think that that, what was the question even? I remember the small things part of it.

43:45.59
Nathan Pile
I was going to change, changed your life through those small things.

43:47.01
Kevin Shock
Oh, how, oh, how has God changed my life? Yeah. Yeah. So I think when I see those things happening, it, it causes me to consider, as I've already said, it caused me to more, to consider more deeply.

44:00.00
Kevin Shock
How do I really want to live?

44:02.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

44:04.52
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I was just talking, I was just talking in the office here this morning to Ann Ferry and she was in, we were just chatting about things, but that was one of the questions we kind of ah wrestled or you know came up in our conversation was this idea of you know these these little choices, these little decisions that we make

44:04.76
Kevin Shock
What am I being called? What am I being called toward? Yeah.

44:29.54
Nathan Pile
um But what does god what's God intending for us for life? you know and and And again, this this question, your answer um would be the mind's mind the same as yours. in And the reason that I think that this paradigm shift is about the local community, the local context, is because that's where we make these little these little things, these choices about doing these little things.

45:01.82
Kevin Shock
yeah

45:02.26
Nathan Pile
about how we spend our time, about how we spend our money. um They don't feel like they're that big of a difference, but they make a huge difference when we all do them together.

45:14.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah. who

45:17.06
Nathan Pile
And so you know and and so that's one of the things that the pandemic can teach us is that like smog disappeared when the whole world shut down.

45:17.41
Kevin Shock
yeah

45:29.04
Kevin Shock
ah Right. Right. Yeah.

45:30.48
Nathan Pile
Like there were there were cities that said, oh, we didn't see those we haven't seen those mountains in years because they weren't now driving to work or and other things weren't happening.

45:30.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:36.81
Kevin Shock
Uh-huh.

45:41.39
Nathan Pile
So like those like we can make choices. The paradigm shift that that is difficult is that we have to make the choices together.

45:53.43
Nathan Pile
Our community, your community, you know, everybody that's listening is their communities. When a network of of leaders can can bring about change in their local context and in their um settings and people say, yeah, I can make those choices.

46:14.77
Nathan Pile
um

46:14.83
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

46:16.65
Nathan Pile
That's when together we start to to make that impact. And so, and it's those little things. It's it's living as community. It's caring for each other and in in in our neighborhoods. um It's making sure everyone feels secure.

46:30.09
Kevin Shock
Hmm hmm.

46:33.79
Nathan Pile
yeah Yeah. Again, having just had celebrated a holiday of of Thanksgiving with my family. and have spent spent many days with that family um and different meals.

46:49.18
Nathan Pile
we had Yes, we had Thanksgiving meal, but we ate at least one, if not two meals a day together Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And so yesterday was the first day that I didn't see most of my high family.

47:05.00
Nathan Pile
um No, that's not true.

47:05.20
Kevin Shock
who

47:06.76
Nathan Pile
I saw them. I just didn't eat a meal with them. Well, had had I had communion with them, so but I didn't have a... a meal of sustenance.

47:15.47
Kevin Shock
You didn't have a sit down sustenance meal with him, right?

47:17.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah, right. I had a, I did have a meal with them though. So technically that's still true yesterday. So, but like, but there was something, there's something about being together. There's something about how that nurtures our soul. I know that this morning coming in and, and, and, and um,

47:42.20
Nathan Pile
recording these podcasts, I'm better than I was at the end of last week um because I've had some downtime. I've lived life with people that I love and um and shared life together and told stories and and made memories and shared love with one another.

47:51.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

47:58.55
Nathan Pile
So oh like those are the little things and and they've made a difference in my life today, Monday, as I'm sitting in front of this microphone, I feel differently. I'm thinking differently.

48:11.57
Nathan Pile
I hope it causes me to lead better this week.

48:13.89
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

48:16.28
Nathan Pile
So ah yeah, these little changes, and and that's I think that's behind these little changes that God is inspiring in the midst of us in communities.

48:28.87
Nathan Pile
That's where that's where what brings about change. i So yeah.

48:36.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and I think, you know, Nathan, even just a quick comment, um even this podcast itself, I know that we've talked on here before about how we, you and I thought for years about, well, what kind of podcasts would we wanna do until we finally landed on this? And um and a lot of our ah lot of our figuring that out was, well, we just don't wanna add our voice to a bunch of other voices that are out there.

49:04.44
Kevin Shock
um We want this to be a tool and that we talk about this all the time. People who are listening, you know this. We do this to try to encourage you to think about things, but also have these conversations with the people around you.

49:21.98
Nathan Pile
Yes.

49:22.53
Kevin Shock
Like it's it's it's fine to listen to me and Nathan, but that doesn't really accomplish a lot. And I mean, I'll admit that. and that nathan Maybe Nathan says some things that accomplish something.

49:32.55
Kevin Shock
But it it um but the the the real thing is Nathan and I are being selfish because we do this for each other and and we we know the value of it and we want you to know the value of it.

49:32.94
Nathan Pile
No, no, no.

49:39.67
Nathan Pile
Yes.

49:46.38
Kevin Shock
and And we want you to feel encouraged to do to have these kinds of conversations with people that you live with or that you see or that you're friends with. And and like we've said like we said two episodes ago or three episodes ago, um we're gonna work on adding some more voices to this podcast throughout this year um because it's it's it's important for us to have those conversations.

50:14.79
Kevin Shock
ah And the reality is we're we're not, we're not going to pull any people, we're not going to invite anyone into the conversations because we think that they necessarily have something particular and special to say to the world.

50:30.94
Kevin Shock
Although I think we do think that about all of them because we just know them and think that they're good people. Um, but, but because we want to have conversation with them.

50:43.03
Kevin Shock
That's the thing.

50:43.22
Nathan Pile
No.

50:44.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So. it it It is these these small things make a huge difference. And I think if we put all of our time and energy into trying to make a huge difference, then it's difficult for us to make any difference at all. um Because our scope is just too big and we get overwhelmed. But but thinking about, you know can i have a can i can I say hello to my neighbor

51:15.79
Kevin Shock
and let that be a first step and just see where that goes. Yeah. Nathan, I don't know if you answered that question three.

51:26.24
Kevin Shock
um

51:26.51
Nathan Pile
that um I said I'm in the same area as you are and then went on and talked for like six minutes.

51:30.35
Kevin Shock
Okay, okay.

51:32.67
Nathan Pile
So I think so.

51:33.48
Kevin Shock
Okay, all right, all right. Well, um yeah, we hope that ah in in this season that you're seeing God doing amazing things in very small ways.

51:49.06
Nathan Pile
Yes.

51:49.27
Kevin Shock
um Because we do trust that that's the case. ah And and that's for me, that's what a lot of the season of Advent is about as we look toward Christmas, is that it's seeing God doing unspeakable for good, unspeakable things, unimaginable things, uh, in the smallest interactions and in the smallest ways.

52:17.54
Kevin Shock
Um, so some other texts that, uh, might help you to see that as well. Uh, Oh boy. Yeah. Some other texts. Wow. Mary, here we go. I love my Mary.

52:30.42
Kevin Shock
Um, my mother, Mary, um, This is this is her Sunday Advent for and especially because we are ah in this year of the of our appointed readings. This is ah this is Luke's year and Luke focuses on her more than anybody else, pretty much. um So ah we have the the solemnity appointed for worship this week is actually Mary's song.

53:00.77
Kevin Shock
um but it's also the gospel. So if you read Luke 1, verse 39 through 55, you will hear um Mary's song of praise to God and her prayer of hopefulness that God does amazing things through insignificant people. um And you'll hear the reason also why she sings that song ah because she is,

53:31.83
Kevin Shock
She goes to her cousin's house and Elizabeth says that she is blessed because she is bearing the child who will be the savior of the nations. And Mary sings this wonderful song in response to that. So so Luke one verse 39 through 55 is the whole thing. ah Psalm 80 verses one through seven, let your face shine upon us and we shall be saved. And Hebrews 10,

53:59.81
Kevin Shock
versus five through 10 is talking about um the ah the savior, the one who has come, I have come to do your will. So friends, we hope that you have opportunity um to reflect with one another during this busy, busy season. ah Take some time just to focus on the things that are important to you and and the people that you want to focus some time with.

54:28.72
Kevin Shock
um and And we pray that that will lead to some good reflections of of the amazing things, of witnessing the amazing things that God is doing. ah And above all, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

54:42.47
Nathan Pile
and peace.