Episode 06: Luke 2:41-52

Translation: The Message (MSG)

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
What things are you holding dearly, deep within yourself?

Additional texts:
1 Samuel 2:18-20, 26
Psalm 148
Colossians 3:12-17

Transcript

00:02.24
Kevin Shock
Hello, everyone. Merry Christmas.

00:05.56
Nathan Pile
Merry Christmas.

00:07.93
Kevin Shock
Welcome back to TEND.

00:12.54
Kevin Shock
This week we are looking at the first Sunday of Christmas, and particularly the Gospel reading. ah Luke the second chapter, verses 41 through 52.

00:26.58
Kevin Shock
Um, this is one of the very few, if not the only, ah it's the only, um, account we have of the boy, Jesus.

00:39.24
Nathan Pile
Mmm. Not Kevin not Kevin and Nathan not Kevin

00:39.60
Kevin Shock
not the infant Jesus, but the boy Jesus um in in all of scripture, at least scripture that we find that has is in the canon of the Bible. ah There have been other writings about the boy Jesus, but we don't include them in what we read in scripture. I mean, we, the church historically has not included them in what we read in scripture. Not yeah not like, yeah, not the ELCA, not Kevin and Nathan, like 2000 years of Christian tradition.

01:09.39
Kevin Shock
um We are going to look at the message translation today. I wanted to...

01:15.48
Nathan Pile
I did see that and I was excited.

01:18.41
Kevin Shock
Well, I wanted to try... it's It's mostly a narrative. There's not a lot of ah philosophical stuff going on, so I wanted to try it and I i liked the...

01:23.22
Nathan Pile
right

01:27.29
Kevin Shock
we We'll talk about it as we get into it.

01:29.43
Nathan Pile
yeah

01:30.11
Kevin Shock
Our three questions for today. What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And what things are you holding dearly, deep within yourself?

01:45.44
Nathan Pile
Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white in our late 40s, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and we were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

02:07.10
Nathan Pile
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as you engage scripture. And ways that we um do that is through our email and through um social media. So those,

02:33.41
Nathan Pile
We'll share those things at the end of the podcast as reminders, but we look forward to engaging um with you around scripture. Our reading is from Luke, the second chapter.

02:52.09
Nathan Pile
Every year, Jesus's parents traveled to Jerusalem for the Feast of Passover. When he was 12 years old, they went up as they always did for the feast.

03:02.77
Nathan Pile
When it was over and they left for home, the child Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but his parents didn't didn't know it. Thinking he was somewhere in the company of pilgrims, they journeyed for a whole day and then began looking for him among relatives and neighbors. When they didn't find him, they went back to Jerusalem looking for him. The next day they found him in the temple seated among the teachers, listening to them and asking questions.

03:32.96
Nathan Pile
The teachers were all quite taken with him, impressed with the sharpness of his answers. But his parents were not impressed. They were upset and hurt. His mother said, young man, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been half out of our minds looking for you.

03:55.65
Nathan Pile
He said, why were you looking for me? Didn't you know that I had to be here dealing with the things of my father? But they had no idea what he was talking about. So he went back to Nazareth with them and lived obediently with them. His mother held these things dearly, deep within herself, and Jesus matured, growing up in both body and spirit, blessed by both God and people.

04:25.99
Nathan Pile
ah If you are meeting with group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. um and Kevin, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

04:39.86
Kevin Shock
it's an It's an overarching image, as you're and I'm holding back laughter. and Maybe I'm just in the Christmas spirit, but I realized that Peterson's translation makes the first part of this sound like the first part of the plot of the movie Home Alone.

04:57.90
Kevin Shock
ah

04:58.15
Nathan Pile
Ha ha ha!

04:59.24
Kevin Shock
is his parents His parents assumed that he was among relatives and friends, and they were already on the flight back to Nazareth when Mary

05:09.69
Kevin Shock
bolted forward in her airline seat and said, Jesus.

05:17.16
Kevin Shock
she She just realized they had left him in Jerusalem.

05:21.17
Nathan Pile
Well, if you all ah haven't seen the Home Alone series, you ought to check that out after Kevin's high recommendation here.

05:29.41
Kevin Shock
I would assume that most of the people who listen to this podcast have seen Home Alone. It's such a ubiquitous film. But anyway, um yeah that's I mean, honestly, I feel like I should give another answer, but that's really what stuck out to me. um the One thing that ah one thing that did did stick out to me that also just, I mean,

05:52.89
Kevin Shock
Peterson's verbiage makes me chuckle, but ah but not in a not in a shake my head kind of well it's kind of in a shake my head kind of way, but but also I think that he says things in a way that really get to the root of the feeling behind the narrative sometimes.

06:10.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

06:10.61
Kevin Shock
And um a lot of other translations say that his parents were astonished. ah And, and astonished always makes me think amazed, but then when you continue to read on, they're not amazed.

06:25.72
Kevin Shock
Peterson gets to the root of it, but his parents were not impressed. They were upset and hurt. I mean, that really, um, yeah, I, I appreciate that translation because astonished, certainly astonished can mean like, you know, like upset.

06:31.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

06:40.36
Nathan Pile
Well.

06:45.63
Kevin Shock
Irate, ah flabbergasted that he has done this to them.

06:47.15
Nathan Pile
Right.

06:51.16
Kevin Shock
um they're They're not astonished with his teaching. They're astonished with his behavior that he would be that he would be um somewhat neglectful of them or neglectful of his responsibilities.

06:57.03
Nathan Pile
Yes.

07:05.07
Kevin Shock
After all, Jesus is, I said at the beginning of this podcast, this is the account of the boy Jesus, but at this time, I'm 12 years old. He's, he's skirting right on adulthood here.

07:18.91
Nathan Pile
Yes.

07:20.01
Kevin Shock
Um, and so even though he's a boy, even though he's a 12 year old, he, there are different expectations of 12 year olds in Jesus's time than there are in our time.

07:33.22
Kevin Shock
Uh, so I, yeah, I appreciate, I really appreciate this translation. His, his parents were not impressed. They were upset and hurt. So yeah.

07:42.23
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and in ah and and I appreciate that because it like the idea of um astonished like the the thing I would have thought about was shocked that they were shocked and um but shocked in in in being hurt and upset like like that's the the piece here not like oh wow he's such a good student um shocked. And so you kind of pulling that out and and helping us hear that I think is is really important because it there is a piece, um because for me, so so the thing that stuck out of is the very humanness of his parents in this passage.

08:24.70
Nathan Pile
um and And the very end of this reading where it the the words that kind of caught my attention were blessed both by God and people. um And so of course I wanted to go and look and see how it is written in the other translations that we read sometimes.

08:41.63
Nathan Pile
And it talks about Jesus increased in wisdom and in years and in divine and human favor. um But i i i this language again catches my imagination a little bit that

08:47.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

08:54.77
Nathan Pile
um Luke and his telling of um of the young Jesus is You know, favor is not really a word we use very often anymore. And so this idea that he's blessed by God and blessed by people, um people who watch over him, even when they are hurt and upset, um because he does things that a kid would do, which was whatever the input, you know, my impulse is to stick to do this thing. um You know, I can, I can remember getting lost in stores and my parents having to come and find me.

09:30.84
Nathan Pile
um

09:32.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

09:32.70
Nathan Pile
or even sometimes hiding in stores. I can remember there was a James way that had one of those round, round clothes, like the clothes were hung on a hanger and it was, it was circular.

09:44.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. yeah ah huh

09:47.36
Nathan Pile
And, and I can remember hiding on the inside, like knowing that I was there and I could see my mother, but my mother had no idea where I was at. And she was like, pan it, like, oh my gosh, did it, did it.

09:59.20
Nathan Pile
And I'm like, I got you. And she's like, you're the worst. Um, yeah, you know, because like I was in this super secret hiding place kind of thing.

10:11.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:11.64
Nathan Pile
So, ah so this idea that, um,

10:17.53
Nathan Pile
that that his parents are, are, are like every other parent, um, and, and you can't be,

10:25.99
Nathan Pile
One of the things I'm learning as a parent is that I can't be everywhere and shouldn't be everywhere because if I want my kid to learn some independence and responsibility. um

10:39.89
Nathan Pile
so would you know So that part of it is like, we have to there there has to be that ah ah bit of freedom, but in that bit of freedom, they're still worried about where he is and when they can't find him.

10:55.83
Nathan Pile
you know, become panicked and and rush back to the place um where he must be because he's not with everybody else. And so um so this idea that that we think of Jesus as a blessing to all of us um and the Christ is that, but also that his parents can be and the people that are around him, the family, the community that surrounds him are a blessing to him.

11:03.33
Kevin Shock
Right.

11:21.42
Nathan Pile
um kind of strikes me in this passage. so

11:28.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah, i I really appreciate the way that I think that Peterson's translation of this really paints a wonderful picture and ah an accurate picture of those those kinds of interactions between parents and children.

11:45.30
Kevin Shock
I appreciate that you said that Jesus was acting impulsively. He did. He was acting impulsively.

11:50.84
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah he

11:51.97
Kevin Shock
It it was it it was a It was a good thing that he was doing. It was a and perhaps even a needful thing that he was doing.

11:59.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:03.04
Kevin Shock
But a he could have he could have said to Mary.

12:05.96
Nathan Pile
it wasn't a very responsible rate It wasn't a very responsible way of doing it.

12:08.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah, he could have said to Mary, I need to stay in the temple for a few days and talk to the teachers.

12:13.07
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah yeah your done Your dad has to work.

12:14.78
Kevin Shock
Now, maybe he didn't say that because she would have said, no, you're coming home with us. But. ah

12:22.30
Nathan Pile
We have to get home.

12:23.53
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, perhaps there would have been that argument then. um But yeah, he he I mean, he was acting impulsively.

12:28.62
Nathan Pile
right

12:31.46
Kevin Shock
He was acting, I think he was acting according to the spirit.

12:35.40
Nathan Pile
Right.

12:36.16
Kevin Shock
but But as we hear in other places in scripture, sometimes acting according to the spirit causes friction among family members.

12:44.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

12:44.98
Kevin Shock
And um and that's what that's what happens here, yeah.

12:45.05
Nathan Pile
Yep, yep.

12:48.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:49.64
Kevin Shock
I just i think it's a, i In this translation, I'm getting a more honest, more accurate picture of that parent-child relationship.

13:00.06
Kevin Shock
and And one thing I appreciate about this is that it makes Jesus feel more human to me, which um I think is always, a for me at least, it's always a good reminder that Jesus dealt with the same things that we deal with and

13:01.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

13:06.87
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah.

13:19.07
Kevin Shock
and even you know perhaps did some of the same things we do. not i always I always like to say that Jesus always stops short of sin, but there are a couple of times that he skirts the line.

13:32.86
Kevin Shock
And I think this is one of them.

13:34.12
Nathan Pile
Well, and because he's because he's human and holy.

13:34.21
Kevin Shock
I think he's not...

13:36.04
Nathan Pile
And so um it makes sense that he would skirt the line, you know, like, yeah you know, that human, that humanness of him ah coming out.

13:41.37
Kevin Shock
Exactly, right, exactly. Yep, yep.

13:47.60
Nathan Pile
Yeah. No, I appreciate it for those reasons too. Like it's helpful to be reminded. And I think at times our gospel writers are are writing about um the teacher that that they love and um and who is divine.

14:04.97
Nathan Pile
And so at times, um and we don't get to see this human side of Jesus all the time. And so I appreciate when we do so.

14:13.83
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, the other just quickly. The other thing I appreciate about this is um this reading is that he realizes he has hurt his parents.

14:25.40
Nathan Pile
Yes.

14:26.13
Kevin Shock
And so he goes back to Nazareth with them and lives obedient with and obediently with them. but But he this is Jesus has learned his lesson. The boy Jesus has learned his lesson here.

14:37.42
Kevin Shock
And yeah, I again, he's um He's human, so he has to learn some lessons. and and um that's For me, that's such an important part of the incarnation of God becoming flesh, is that God learns what it means to live with and to be in relationship with an imperfect, emotional creation, human beings.

15:06.77
Nathan Pile
Right. Hmm. Yeah.

15:12.52
Kevin Shock
And this is a great example of it, yeah.

15:12.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

15:15.39
Nathan Pile
and

15:18.28
Kevin Shock
Okay, yep.

15:18.62
Nathan Pile
Alright, why don't we do it a second time?

15:21.08
Kevin Shock
ah From Luke chapter two, every year Jesus' parents traveled to Jerusalem for the Feast of Passover. When he was 12 years old, they went up as they always did for the feast.

15:32.96
Kevin Shock
When it was over and they left for home, the child Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but his parents didn't know it. thinking he was somewhere in the company of pilgrims, they journeyed for a whole day and then began looking for him among relatives and neighbors. When they didn't find him, they went back to Jerusalem looking for him. They booked a flight out of France the next day so that they could get home. ah The next day they found him, sorry, little home alone reference there. The next day they found him in the temple seated among the teachers, listening to them and asking questions.

16:08.84
Kevin Shock
The teachers were all quite taken with him, impressed with the sharpness of his answers. But his parents were not impressed. They were upset and hurt. His mother said, young man, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been half out of our minds looking for you. He said, why were you looking for me? Didn't you know that I had to be here dealing with the things of my father? But they had no idea what he was talking about.

16:34.62
Kevin Shock
So he went back to Nazareth with them and lived obediently with them. His mother held these things dearly, deep within herself, and Jesus matured, growing up in both body and spirit, blessed by both God and people.

16:51.04
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

16:55.57
Nathan Pile
um There's something about the search for this are that the that the parents put on and and even Jesus's response to them of, why were you searching? Why were you looking for me? So I feel i feel called toward um some level of, of of and and maybe it's because we've come out of Advent and we have this idea of watching and looking in the season of Advent, and so that's still kind of fresh in my head. um But there's this idea that that i hearing this cartridge, this idea of

17:33.62
Nathan Pile
of of seeking out, of searching for um God in our place. and um And then Jesus's response even makes me feel a little bit like, well, if I was paying attention, I would know. ah But there's absolutely times when I'm super distracted and I'm not paying attention.

17:55.97
Nathan Pile
and or and or feel like I know. um and And maybe they're separate times too, but this idea of um of being able to, you know, God has has given us, you know, the free will, ah free a free spirit to to be who we are, to to to go down the roads we want to go down.

18:25.54
Nathan Pile
um

18:28.39
Nathan Pile
But as a part of being a a follower of Christ, one of the ways that I live into that is that I am that i am seeking seeking and searching for Emmanuel.

18:43.72
Nathan Pile
And so what does that look like? How do I do that on a daily basis? Or or how do I remind myself to be looking for um God's love in the world, God's spirit in the world,

18:56.07
Nathan Pile
um seeking to to bring about justice for those who are ah the last lost, lonely, lame, and the least.

19:07.03
Nathan Pile
um

19:09.62
Nathan Pile
Because I think when i'm when when when I feel without God, um I need to be reminded that that i that I need to be seeking, seeking and looking because God is already in the world. and so um This passage kind of tells me a little bit about that. Even even if i if if even though i I am at fault for that separation from God, um for me being able to kind of re-engage myself in that search, re-engage myself in looking for um for Jesus in the world, for the Holy Spirit in the world,

19:56.49
Nathan Pile
um because there's something about it that then transforms me. Having had faith experiences in my life, those you know those things transform me. And so when when I feel disjointed or unconnected to God, a reminder for me is that i that all I have to do is is look for God and God will

20:28.76
Nathan Pile
show up um because God is always present.

20:29.91
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Mm hmm.

20:32.24
Nathan Pile
God is always um doing God's thing. It just might not be in places where I'm at. It might not be that i may be that I'm not looking um in the places that I am.

20:46.04
Nathan Pile
And so to to kind of be um shocked, you know, that that description that you had given um

20:56.89
Nathan Pile
you know, the the times in my life, there are times in my life that I have felt hurt that God has separated God's self from me. But was it really God or was it me? And I was blaming God for separating.

21:06.03
Kevin Shock
Mhm.

21:08.01
Nathan Pile
ah And it was really me who did that who did that um part of it.

21:09.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

21:12.72
Nathan Pile
So um yeah, there's there's a piece of this passage that just kind of calls out to say, keep searching, keep looking, God's here. um and And I guess I don't feel like there's judgment in Jesus's answer, though though the language could could provide some judgment to there. It doesn't feel too judgy, like I don't feel judged for having lost my way as a disciple.

21:39.20
Nathan Pile
um

21:41.88
Nathan Pile
um but i just But God is doing god God's thing. And so if there's, If God's doing that work and I'm not present in those places because I've chosen not to be, um, well, I need to go back out and find where God is.

21:58.22
Nathan Pile
And then that reminds me of who God is and what God does, um, and kind of go from there.

22:05.50
Kevin Shock
Mmhmm.

22:06.27
Nathan Pile
So I think that's probably place where that, um, that question, you know, that question in this path and this passage kind of strikes me.

22:06.90
Kevin Shock
Mmhmm. Mmhmm.

22:19.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um I it's interesting that you're um ah you're talking about divine connections and such.

22:19.41
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend?

22:31.55
Kevin Shock
um I I guess I'm thinking in a in a human sense, ah paying attention to human relationships um and ah

22:48.68
Kevin Shock
and I don't I don't know. it ah i'm I'm thinking about thinking about Christmas and family dynamics and things like that. ah Things are a little different for us this year because we're staying at home and not traveling, but still family dynamics creep into the things that are going on.

22:59.23
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

23:07.15
Kevin Shock
And um yeah, so I ah yeah, I'm I'm thinking about how

23:17.91
Kevin Shock
Uh, some, some of this is, some of this is, uh, tinted a little bit because of just some conversation my spouse and I had yesterday about some family things, not, not between us, but ah other family things. And, and thinking about how, how easy it is to, uh,

23:40.55
Kevin Shock
make assumptions about expectations, not communicate things well. Um, and then before you know it, things are out of control and people are upset and hurt. Um, and, um, yeah, it didn't, it didn't help that last night. We kind of, we but we both kind of had long days and then, uh, we were, we sat down to watch a couple of episodes of some of our like,

24:06.13
Kevin Shock
Um, you know, relaxing TV shows and both were episodes that were dealing with like sibling rivalry and stuff.

24:07.50
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Oh. oh

24:16.24
Kevin Shock
And we were like, ah Lisa said something about like, why, why does this have to be the plot line of every show we're watching? today Um, so I, you know, I think that I, I don't, I don't think that Jesus intended to hurt or upset his parents.

24:24.74
Nathan Pile
and Yeah.

24:34.69
Kevin Shock
Um, but that's what happened. And ah and I think that it's it can be very easy for us to kind of be be be focused on our own wants and needs um in such a way, not not that I'm saying that that that in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but in such a way that we aren't paying attention to the wants and needs of other people.

25:00.13
Kevin Shock
um

25:00.23
Nathan Pile
yeah Yeah, if they become all-consuming.

25:03.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

25:03.50
Nathan Pile
ah but Focusing on my wants and needs becomes the the all-consuming part of that, yeah.

25:07.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. um Because you know human relationships are complex and human emotions are complex and it's easy to it's it's easy to get off track a little bit. So um yeah, I think that that's that's also something that i'm I'm guilty of the same thing. And so I feel like that's something that I'm in this season ah just overall for a variety of reasons, something I'm thinking about, but it this reading brings it to the forefront for me as well. Yeah.

25:45.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

25:51.50
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

25:51.92
Kevin Shock
and And I think just to piggyback on what you said, I think that paying attention to our human relationships um and considering the needs and wants of other people also helps us to tune in to what God is doing among us. I think that there's something there's something inherent in being considerate of other people that opens us to the way of God because that's at the

26:29.17
Kevin Shock
That's at the center of the way of God. Love loving God and loving your neighbor and being considerate of your family members, being considerate of the people around you.

26:40.22
Kevin Shock
That's loving your neighbor.

26:42.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

26:44.85
Kevin Shock
Yep.

26:50.79
Nathan Pile
Okay, ready to do this a third time?

26:52.49
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

26:56.74
Nathan Pile
um Every year, Jesus's parents traveled to Jerusalem for the fat feast of Passover. When he was 12 years old, they went up as they always did for the feast.

27:12.25
Nathan Pile
When it was over and they left for home, the child Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but his parents didn't know it. Thinking he was somewhere in the company of pilgrims, they journeyed for a whole day and they began looking for him among relatives and neighbors. When they didn't find him, they went back to Jerusalem jerusalem looking for him.

27:37.08
Nathan Pile
The next day they found him in the temple, seated among the teachers, listening to them and asking questions. The teachers were all quite taken with him, impressed with the sharpness of his answers. But his parents were not impressed. They were upset and hurt. His mother said, young man, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been half out of our minds looking for you.

28:07.44
Nathan Pile
He said, why were you looking for me? Didn't you know that I had to be here dealing with the things of my father? But they had no idea what he was talking about. So he went back to Nazareth with them and lived obediently with them. His mother held these things dearly, deep within herself. And Jesus matured, growing up in both body and spirit, blessed by both God and people.

28:39.92
Nathan Pile
Well, Kevin, what things are you holding dearly deep within yourself?

28:46.89
Kevin Shock
um I I think it's related to my answer for number two, um but kind of a twist on it, I think. i'm you know is As this podcast is dropping, I'm somewhere in a hospital in in some ah in some form of either being open or closed or asleep or awake or with an old hip or a new hip. Um, so I'm, I, but I'm leading up to that. I'm very mindful of the, the support network that I have. Um, and I'm, and when I say mindful, it's not just grateful. It's, um,

29:42.60
Kevin Shock
I'm also. I'm also harboring a desire to build on it. um And I don't know if it's I don't know if it's just my pain and discomfort right now, but I've been I've been dealing with this feeling the last couple of days, ah feeling like.

30:05.19
Kevin Shock
um people are People are being thoughtful and mindful of me in ways that I'm not sure that I would be thoughtful and mindful of them.

30:13.67
Nathan Pile
Hm.

30:14.50
Kevin Shock
And um and I'm trying not to feel too guilty about it, ah

30:22.46
Kevin Shock
but um but rather just recognizing that everyone has different gifts And, you know, I mean, you know, everyone has different ways that they pay attention to people and and and different things that they, you know, different love languages, so to speak, different things that they feel called to do. um And so I'm just I'm grateful for that. But also thinking then what what do I contribute to the network of people around me? And how can I do that more?

31:02.07
Kevin Shock
So that's just that's just something that I'm, that's something that I'm thinking about a lot, something that is, ah I think the other, I think the NRSV translation of that line is Mary helped pondered these things or held these things deep in her heart.

31:22.38
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

31:23.97
Kevin Shock
ah And that's that's what I'm holding deep in my heart. as we read this. um

31:36.00
Kevin Shock
thinking about yeah Thinking about the people around me and the support I'm receiving and um gratitude and also a call to something more. What about you, Nathan? What things are you holding dearly?

31:54.18
Nathan Pile
Well, I think um the the as as we read this passage three times, the obviously this language, and I knew it was the third question, so I've tried to stay away from it um so we could talk about it here, this idea of Like Mary held all of these things deep within herself and yet she's shared them obviously with the gospel writers or members of the groups who become the gospel writers.

32:29.26
Nathan Pile
um so that the that her story lives on. you know these These are things that she treasured about her time with Jesus, because none of the disciples were floating around at when Jesus was 12.

32:41.16
Nathan Pile
So they weren't writing this down. um This isn't a Tom Brokaw moment um from NBC News, um or ah I don't know any of the old um Walter Cronkite.

32:53.79
Nathan Pile
um that's That was another old, another, yeah, that's the,

32:54.83
Kevin Shock
There you go, that's the one.

32:57.66
Nathan Pile
so So here you have this um experience of Jesus that is very personal, that has been treasured by his mother who then has shared it um with disciples and that this those disciples have passed it down until it gets written down as a part of of this story.

33:22.16
Nathan Pile
um and And I appreciate your reflection piece of of that everybody kind of has their own way of caring for people. And this is Mary's way. Mary's way was to savor it, to to savor those moments as a mom, ah to kind of say, oh, boy, were we scared, but, you know, whoa, this kid, but you know ah what an amazing um kitty is, you know, kind of a thing, you know, and, and we, we have those experiences when we're scared to death for our kids. And then, you know, we watch them come out of it and, and, and we know everything's okay at that moment. And then you're like, Oh wow. Um, and so there's this care that she has, um,

34:13.75
Nathan Pile
has developed as a part of who she is. and And your reflection that everybody does, provides care in their different ways. um And how important that is, and how do we, I think this has been a gnawing, and ana something that's been gnawing deep within me, is how do we help bring those...

34:40.30
Nathan Pile
um

34:43.79
Nathan Pile
vulnerable individuals out of each of us. I think there's something about society right now, culture right now, has us hiding that from our world. And yet I think as as as Christians, as as um followers of Christ, as disciples of of this rabbi, how do we bring about that caring more fully for one another?

35:11.26
Nathan Pile
um And I'm glad to hear your community has rallied around you because I've honestly, buddy, I've thought, how do I take care of my buddy during this time? And of course, all of the things that I can think of, like, bring you a meal, I'm two and a half hours away.

35:27.53
Nathan Pile
And so, um you know, not things that ah we would be able to do easily.

35:28.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:33.36
Nathan Pile
um But there's still, you know, there there's still that piece of how do we care for each other? um Because I think if we can do that authentically, if we can do that from a vulnerable perspective, because like for Mary to tell this story, Mary has to look bad, right?

35:52.39
Nathan Pile
Like, I wasn't paying attention to my son as we walked back from Jerusalem.

35:54.38
Kevin Shock
yeah Right, right, right. Right, again, again, it's home alone.

35:59.56
Nathan Pile
But like, yeah to it's the first iteration.

36:02.12
Kevin Shock
It's, it's, it's, Catherine O'Hara, how could you leave Kevin at home like that? Yeah, no.

36:10.22
Nathan Pile
um so like So she has to be vulnerable to tell this story, but in telling this story, it also shows us a richness of who Christ is, but it also we hear at the end of this passage, tells us a little bit about how she cares for him.

36:23.15
Nathan Pile
um and essentially the the Christian community going forward because she holds onto this story and then shares it. um And so, and it's not that they didn't care for Jesus because they went and searched for him and then um you know said, how how could you do this thing?

36:40.28
Nathan Pile
We're trying to keep you safe and and you're working against us here, Jesus, um kind of a thing.

36:41.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah, of course, right.

36:45.76
Nathan Pile
And so there's all of that that gets wrapped up in. And so how do we, um You know, this is, as I think about like how do, i one of the things I've been wrestling with this fall is thinking about how, how do I personally do that? How do I continue to be vulnerable and talk about my things that, um my own brokenness, my own pieces that that get in my way of trying to ah live into God's ah ways so that I can also share that caring side.

37:20.77
Nathan Pile
um you know and and and be able to do that. and so And how do we help others do that? Because I think when you and I have talked pretty extensively in these past podcasts about building community and and relationship with one another, well, vulnerability and caring are critical components of building community. and And I think for God's people in our world today,

37:47.39
Nathan Pile
the thing that that um we should have in spades or the things that we should should have plenty of is vulnerability and caring because we're told that we we are loved, that we belong, um that we are forgiven, um and then go and share that love with others.

38:09.24
Nathan Pile
And so how can we build communities that are deeply rooted in,

38:09.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

38:15.00
Nathan Pile
um and who Mary is. And so so that's that I think that's one of the things that that um that I'm holding on to in this season right now for myself of kind of thinking about how how can I do it for myself?

38:31.01
Nathan Pile
How can I mirror Mary's example of being vulnerable in order to be able to show others a deeper side of who God is from the experience that I've had with God?

38:31.36
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

38:43.33
Nathan Pile
But that vulnerability means that I'm going to share stories that aren't putting me in my best light. um

38:50.03
Kevin Shock
Sure.

38:50.96
Nathan Pile
because that's typically probably where I have experienced and feel God's love and forgiveness um when i've when I've fallen down or or when I've erred or hurt others. And so being able to kind of talk about that in honest ways um and share the way that ah that I've been cared for by others in those moments um and then try to to replicate it or mirror it when it happens, when when I'm the one that that is the caregiver. on the um or the Maybe I'm the forgiver too, but the one who's kind of there to also nurture those who are living through whatever it is that that has

39:38.47
Nathan Pile
caused the you know the upheaval in their life. And so so I think that's the, as I listened both to your sharing and and thinking about a deep concern that you know ah the fall and the early winter is my time to kind of think about and dream about how do we create, how do we what what are we trying to create at camp as ah as an experience?

39:41.17
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.

40:03.16
Nathan Pile
for our guests and for our summer campers. um And boy, if we could get this across, it would be a powerful lesson here in this next year of how we do that.

40:13.85
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I had, um related to your reflection there, I had a revelation this past weekend, we did our annual Synod ah youth event, and I was one of the Bible study leaders for that. And, um you know, was with a couple of groups of kids,

40:36.17
Kevin Shock
I hit a ah hit a brick wall ah in the in the Bible study discussion because um I had a couple of groups where everyone was saying, oh yeah, we we don't ever feel like God judges us.

40:49.64
Kevin Shock
We know that God loves us. We know that God's merciful.

40:51.87
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

40:53.15
Kevin Shock
and And I was like, okay, well, there's not there there's not really a lot of nuance or complexity that but we can talk about if you feel that way. and And thanks be to God that you do feel that way.

41:07.08
Nathan Pile
Right.

41:07.29
Kevin Shock
um And these are, you know, ah all the kids who were voicing it, I would say, and I didn't know all of them personally by far, but um are all kids who, you know, they they talked about other struggles they had Um, but I got the impression that these were all people who all young people who had very supportive communities around them, their families, their churches, their, their, um, their teachers in all that kind of stuff for people who generally supported them. And they, and they felt accepted by, there was one group where I did have a couple, a couple of kids.

41:49.37
Kevin Shock
And I would say, you know honestly, now I'm thinking about, they were probably about the age that Jesus was in this in this reading. A couple of kids who, when when I finally felt like the discussion was going that way, um asked pretty plainly, do you ever feel like God is judging you? And two of these kids raised their hands.

42:13.42
Kevin Shock
And what I realized is that these are kids who deal with things that kind of put them in some ways on the margins of society and they feel like people judge them.

42:27.61
Kevin Shock
um Now, one of these kids, exactly, exactly, right?

42:30.74
Nathan Pile
And so if judged if judged by people, judged by God.

42:35.79
Kevin Shock
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how many Bible study you leaders you have saying to you, God doesn't judge you, God loves you. um for who you are and wants the best life that you could possibly have for you. ah it it You could have a million Bible study teachers saying that to you, but if you have people in your life who don't exhibit it, and and I'm not saying one one of these kids I do know personally, and they have a very supportive family network.

43:09.26
Kevin Shock
um ah But i I can only imagine that this kid deals with some looks or comments or things like that, maybe from people in the church, maybe from classmates at school.

43:29.27
Kevin Shock
um And it just, I don't, you know, like again, holding this stuff dearly, um makes me want to be a part of a church where people in situations like that are surrounded so much by love, by by the by the exhibiting of love, not just talking about it, but the exhibiting of love um that they that they know, that they that they don't question that God loves them.

43:53.93
Nathan Pile
Yes.

44:10.29
Kevin Shock
And, uh, and, and I've also been listening to a book, uh, right now, uh, Barbara Brown Taylor book, um, where, where she skirted on some of those issues toward the end of the book. Um, and talked about how something that's been, been, I don't want to say what weighing heavy on me, but has been deep within me, uh, these last few months. And that is, um,

44:36.82
Kevin Shock
that that what we believe from from a modern perspective, from a the things that we hold in our head, are not don't hold a candle to the things that we hold in our heart and the disposition that we have in the world.

44:56.68
Kevin Shock
we We can convince ourselves so easily that everything we believe is right and therefore every action we take must be right. that we neglect to see if we're doing it with a vindictive heart, with a judgmental heart.

45:10.55
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

45:13.29
Kevin Shock
um And and all of the stuff that we all of the stuff that we hold in our brains, this was kind of this was what I liked about how Barbara Brown Taylor talked about it. She was talking about the difference between ah belief and faith. And there was one other word that I can't bring to mind right now.

45:32.53
Kevin Shock
It wasn't trust, because faith was kind of wrapped into that, but it was something else. um And how over the course of time, those those the meaning of those things have moved from heart and disposition to just what we think about and what we hold in our heads.

45:51.68
Nathan Pile
Mm.

45:51.96
Kevin Shock
And I hear parallels to that in things that I've said in sermons in the past few months about, at the end of the day, our opinions are just our opinions. They don't do anything to shape the world in a healthy way. How we live with one another is what shapes the world in a healthy way. And so going back to these kids, I'm going to say to them every chance I get that God loves them, but what they really need is they need people showing them that.

46:20.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

46:22.92
Kevin Shock
And ah yeah, they're, you know, they're, they're good kids who are dealing with some issues. Um,

46:30.85
Nathan Pile
Sure.

46:32.33
Kevin Shock
and And it's so easy for the world, for our world, to just give, like, i don't think I don't think people, people don't even know the effect that a sideways glance has on a person. And sometimes they don't even know that they're giving a sideways glance to a person. You know, you see someone who's a different gender identity than what you expect them to be, or they're not dressed the way you expect them to be, or or something like that, and and if you stare just a little too long, people notice that, they notice that, and they know what you're thinking in your head.

47:12.09
Kevin Shock
And um so there's just a, for myself, as much as for anyone else, I feel this i feel this desire to to retrain how we interact with one another.

47:23.89
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

47:28.08
Kevin Shock
and And I, again, at a conference a few weeks ago, heard a reminder, Nathan, that thing that you, that a thing I heard from Bishop Ortiz in DC, that you said that you wrote on your computer there, that let your let your judgment become curiosity.

47:28.66
Nathan Pile
a

47:43.83
Kevin Shock
And and not in a not in a, what's going on with you kind of thing, but but but in a but in a way of, um I wanna know more about this person.

47:58.93
Kevin Shock
I want to know more about what makes them who they are. And then we learn about one another. And when we learn about one another, it's harder for us to isolate ourselves from one another.

48:15.86
Kevin Shock
Anyway, that I said a lot more than I was planning to, but you kind of opened the door there.

48:22.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. No. And, and, and, um, yeah, I love everything. I love all of that. And, and, and how do we get, how do we get, you know, how do, how do we un un un unbound ourselves so that we can be living in those ways.

48:44.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah. It's Titanic work. It, it, it, it.

48:46.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah. It's yeah, it's really big, really, really big stuff.

48:49.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. And, and slow, big and slow.

48:52.49
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

48:52.89
Kevin Shock
Yep.

48:54.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

48:56.71
Kevin Shock
Well, um, I appreciate the conversation and, uh, it's, I dunno, in some ways a heavy conversation for Christmas, but, um,

48:57.08
Nathan Pile
Mm hmm.

49:06.42
Kevin Shock
ah Here's some additional text to also think about ah during the Christmas season. 1 Samuel 2, verses 18 through 20 and 26. It talks about the boy Samuel grows in favor with the Lord and the people. That's an interesting story in contrast to the Jesus story. Samuel lives at the temple and his mother left him there on purpose. ah But she comes to she comes to visit him every year.

49:34.17
Kevin Shock
um and ah And Eli, eli bless us, are because of that.

49:41.23
Nathan Pile
Because of that.

49:41.67
Kevin Shock
um Psalm 148, the splendor of the Lord is over earth and heaven. And here you go, Nathan. Colossians 3, verses 12 through 17, clothe yourselves in love.

49:49.13
Nathan Pile
Oh, yeah.

49:54.78
Kevin Shock
Let the peace of Christ rule your hearts. Yeah, so I feel like we just had a discussion similar to what we would have had had we looked at the Colossians text.

50:04.32
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, I agree.

50:04.87
Kevin Shock
um

50:07.38
Kevin Shock
So friends, there you go.

50:07.41
Nathan Pile
It's one of my favorite passages. It's one of my favorite passages at Colossians text.

50:12.14
Kevin Shock
So a good one to a good one to consider if you have some if you have some downtime this Christmas season.

50:17.66
Nathan Pile
the

50:17.79
Kevin Shock
um ah But friends, we do wish you a a hearty Merry Christmas and ah and and pray that the ah the gift of the gift of the incarnation of our Lord, ah the gift of God with us, Emmanuel, is something that you are experiencing during this time.

50:37.97
Kevin Shock
As Nathan said earlier, you'll hear in just a second the ways that you can share your reflections with us, and we and we hope that you do. And then we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

50:50.76
Nathan Pile
And peace.