Episode 09: Acts 8:14-17

Translation: New English Translation (NET Bible)

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
How might the Holy Spirit change your view of others?

Additional texts:
Isaiah 43:1-7
Psalm 29
Luke 3:15-17, 21-22

Transcript

00:00:02.34
Nathan Pile
Welcome back to Tend, a Bible podcast. Well, we are um in the new year. um it It's really beautiful weather.

00:00:16.67
Nathan Pile
ah you know What can we say, Kevin?

00:00:20.08
Kevin Shock
Do you, do you have a crystal ball, you can see when this episode is dropping.

00:00:25.32
Nathan Pile
I have no idea what the weather is going to be. I just said it was beautiful, so people might be confused if it's a really bad day that I'm kind of ah a sick, sick person that I like bad weather. I don't know what it's going to be. But ah but it is, ah though we don't know what the weather is outside, we do know that it is good to be together.

00:00:42.47
Nathan Pile
um

00:00:43.00
Kevin Shock
It is.

00:00:43.55
Nathan Pile
And we just, ah we're just kind of talking about that, the importance of being together. So ah so today um we are um looking at Acts the ah eighth chapter, um and we're gonna read verses 14 through 17. So our short reading today, we're gonna, Kevin and I are gonna read it out of the new English translation. um You can follow along with ever Bible Ya Got at Home, or you can go to BibleGateway.com and follow along or in the app. The three questions um Kevin and I are gonna wrestle with today and invite you to join us is what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text toward what is God calling you in this text? And the third question, how might the Holy Spirit change your view of others? um Interesting question, Kevin.

00:01:42.93
Kevin Shock
We'll see.

00:01:43.12
Nathan Pile
So yeah.

00:01:45.70
Kevin Shock
I'm I'm Kevin, and that's Nathan that you just heard talking, and here's some information about us. We are men married to women in financially stable households. We are white in our late 40s, college and seminary educated.

00:01:59.41
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran church, and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:02:11.59
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and with one another. So we wanna know what you hear and think as you read scripture from your life experience. So Acts, the eighth chapter, verses 14 through 17.

00:02:30.56
Kevin Shock
Now, when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. These two went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. For the Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And Peter and John placed their hands on the Samaritans and they received the Holy Spirit. If you are,

00:02:57.93
Kevin Shock
meeting with a group or with somebody else, you can pause the podcast now and ask the questions of one another. Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:03:11.52
Nathan Pile
um I am interested in what um what Samaria did. What was the sign? How did the disciples know that Samaria had accepted the Word of God? When you read it, I was kind of like, oh, what does that mean? um And so it was a curiosity of mine of um You know, sometimes we get these readings and they have details that that go beyond, we just talked about last week, the the three gifts of the Magi and what those what those gifts were. This one, we don't seem to get much more than um that ah the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the Word of God, but we don't know what that means and looks like.

00:04:02.41
Nathan Pile
um And but the the apostles send um send help. They send some send some preachers, send some disciples to the go and do some teaching teaching down there.

00:04:15.62
Kevin Shock
Mmhmm.

00:04:16.60
Nathan Pile
And so um so there's a piece here, like I'm just curious about what does um but does the accept it accepting the word of God, what does it mean to be open to the word of God and and look like?

00:04:32.28
Nathan Pile
you know, I have a sense of that in my own life. But interesting to think about, again, um some pieces of this passage that that stick out. So Samaria um would have been an area that was um Samaria, ah so to put it into some biblical context, Samaritan everyone would have been from Samaria. So if you think about that Bible story,

00:05:02.04
Nathan Pile
um The Samaritan was from Samaria and he was considered to be an outsider for the Jewish faith tradition. And so, you know, the priest walks on by the Samaritan, or the Samaritan is the one who kind of stops and helps the person that's hurt heard along the side of the road. The priest doesn't. And so the the the big, what's the word I'm looking for? The big,

00:05:34.91
Nathan Pile
The word is stuck in my head is conundrum. It's not so much conundrum. It may be like the the shock of the the story of the gospel of the Good Samaritan is that it's this outsider who's willing to stop and no one else who are the insiders are willing to stop kind of a thing.

00:05:40.81
Kevin Shock
Click it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

00:05:49.94
Nathan Pile
So, so Samaria would be outsiders um are accepting the word of God and so or being open to the Word of God. ah and i And I'm the one that's putting that word be open. The translation has um that word had accepted the Word of God. um In my head, I'm trying to make sense of what what it means to be accepted. ah And so they were being open to, they were allowing the Word of God to engage them and and um

00:06:22.27
Nathan Pile
and inspire them in their life together, all of that would seem like parts of being accepted kind of a thing. So because the Samaritans weren't, it's not that they didn't believe in God, it's that they believed they had a place where they too could worship God in the midst of their country um of some in the in the midst of some area.

00:06:45.16
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

00:06:47.99
Nathan Pile
And so it's not that there there was a lack of of um love for or thanks for who forgot. It was simply that they believed a little bit differently than the the the temple leaders in Jerusalem.

00:07:07.42
Nathan Pile
who were the leaders of the Jewish faith at the time. So um so yeah, yeah that the word accepted kind of caught my attention as you read it there our first time. So what about you, my friend?

00:07:19.96
Kevin Shock
Well, I, first in response to some things you said, um yeah, it's not, you're right in saying it's insider-outsider ah issues here at play, but also, I mean, that's that's kind of generalizing it. it's It's really about the people who practice religion the right way and the people who practice religion the wrong way.

00:07:42.58
Kevin Shock
and ah and the Samaritans are the ones who practice religion the wrong way, but Jesus' whole point in that parable is that um the one that you assume practices religion in the wrong way is the one who does the right thing for the right reasons.

00:07:59.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:08:00.28
Kevin Shock
um

00:08:00.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:08:01.59
Kevin Shock
and And I think it's important to note that you know we you and I have talked enough about scripture to know that there are different different authors of the books and different contexts and different stories.

00:08:13.63
Kevin Shock
But I know we've said in this podcast fairly recently that the person who wrote the gospel of Luke is the same person who wrote the book of Acts.

00:08:21.62
Nathan Pile
yep yes

00:08:22.76
Kevin Shock
And that they're really, even though there's John is between them in the in scripture, um they're really two volumes of the same story. And ah so when we're reading from Acts and it makes a reference to Samaritans,

00:08:38.38
Kevin Shock
the parable of the Good Samaritan would have been in the first volume of the book that these people are reading, and it would have um it would it would trigger it. Like, this is this is correct, that it triggers the, oh, I remember Jesus talking about Samaritans before, and here we're talking about them again.

00:08:48.79
Nathan Pile
right

00:08:56.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:08:57.27
Kevin Shock
um And the thing, yeah, I I didn't know exactly what it meant either when it said had accepted the word of God, except that we also learn two verses later that they had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, which I think to me means that they have, they have um they're now following the way of Jesus as they practice their faith. And certainly this doesn't mean all Samaritans, it just means the the group of the people in the church who are in some area there, so yeah. So yeah. um

00:09:33.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think I think the the points that you raise are very important that this is the this is a narrative about something that is happening in the early church, ah but it also has a lot to say about the divide between ethnicities, divide between practices of faith,

00:09:57.63
Kevin Shock
um this is a These four short verses are verses that point to um a growing unity in the church over the division that had existed there before, yeah.

00:10:09.74
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

00:10:13.75
Kevin Shock
um The thing that jumps out to me in this text is that um it's when they hear that the Samaritans had accepted the word of God that they then send apostles to continue to work with them.

00:10:25.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:10:28.59
Kevin Shock
to train them well, and also to to lay hands on them and and so that they can receive the Holy Spirit. um I think the reason it stuck out to me is because um I think for in our culture right now, and it's not necessarily in our tradition as Lutherans, but the overarching methodology in the church I feel like is to get someone to quote, unquote, accept the word of God is the end goal.

00:11:02.38
Kevin Shock
And that's actually, once they've done that, that's when we stop working with them. This is for, in the early church, this was a starting point to work with them.

00:11:12.96
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's great point.

00:11:13.52
Kevin Shock
And um and to me, it just highlights the importance of um the importance of formation, and building community and building relationship over simple indoctrination.

00:11:25.60
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:11:29.79
Kevin Shock
it's it's It's more important to practice community and practice unity with one another than it is just to make sure that everyone's believing the right thing. Yeah, yeah. It reminds me of

00:11:50.23
Kevin Shock
Well, I don't even know if I want to go down this road. but Something I read on Facebook this week that ah I was ah was triggered. And it was just long story short, someone who was, who I think had probably been hurt by the church, um but a lot but that hurt was coming out sideways and it very is very much a proponent of making sure that people believe the right things.

00:12:19.86
Kevin Shock
and the church church has practiced the way, practiced things the way they were in scripture, has has led to this person being very rigid about who's right and who's wrong,

00:12:30.10
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hey.

00:12:32.48
Kevin Shock
um who's following Jesus and who's going down a road towards Satan, ah and and actually reading this post that actually, I'm not friends with this person, someone else that I know had shared this post,

00:12:46.11
Kevin Shock
um ah triggered enough of a memory in me to remember that I had had a run-in with this very person in my congregation years ago. And um and in his tactic, my my egregious sin was not doing an altar call at a funeral to make sure that everybody knew that um they had to accept Jesus in order to go to heaven. And if they didn't do that,

00:13:16.73
Kevin Shock
then they were going to hell.

00:13:20.57
Kevin Shock
um That has never been a part of my tradition, the tradition I've grown up in. And I don't think it's a very effective way to also to introduce people to the love and the grace of Jesus Christ. I don't think it's very effective. But also this person registered this complaint with me by cornering me as I was walking out the door to go to the graveside to be with the family. And um my my just my I spent too much time thinking about this this week. And my my overarching thought was that no one is going to receive salvation if they just see you acting like a complete jerk to everybody they know.

00:14:14.96
Kevin Shock
Like if your form of evangelism is to make sure that everyone's doing the right thing and insulting and ah and pushing away everyone that you think is doing a wrong thing, like people people are gonna be able to see what a jerk you are and they're not gonna receive the message.

00:14:15.18
Nathan Pile
right

00:14:38.66
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:14:40.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So, I yeah. ah I just.

00:14:46.39
Nathan Pile
Well, because they're what they're trying to do is, is with at least what they're saying they're trying to do is bring people to Christ. But but what we're doing is building walls that don't need to be there.

00:14:53.63
Kevin Shock
Right. but Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Right. and And that's the whole the whole reason I bring this up is because that that I think is a I don't want to say it's a natural outcome. It's a possible outcome.

00:15:12.55
Kevin Shock
of a tactic that is only interested in getting people to accept the word of God.

00:15:18.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:15:19.81
Kevin Shock
um If you don't see any relationship with those people beyond that point, you can treat them however you want to, and it doesn't matter.

00:15:19.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:15:26.27
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:15:33.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and and unfortunately, um how you treat people as a as an apostle of Jesus Christ does matter because where your heart is matters. And and in fact, it's more important than the words that come out of your mouth.

00:15:54.30
Kevin Shock
um and And your your adherence to the to the way of Jesus Christ is um evident in the way that you interact with other people.

00:16:08.37
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:16:12.08
Kevin Shock
And if your interactions are prideful or can be perceived as prideful, if they're divisive, um that's that says a lot about your adherence to the way of Jesus.

00:16:27.74
Kevin Shock
And you may be farther from the way of Jesus than what you think you are.

00:16:32.11
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:16:34.44
Kevin Shock
so

00:16:35.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:16:35.58
Kevin Shock
It's not, it's not my place to, I can't say that for sure. It's not my place to condemn, but what, what interests me about this reading is that the church says, Oh, they've come into the church.

00:16:45.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:16:47.22
Kevin Shock
And so at that point they don't say, Oh good. Like our job's done. They say, Oh, now, now we need to go and build a relationship with them. Yeah.

00:17:01.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay.

00:17:02.79
Nathan Pile
Well, and and to share the blessings and gifts that have been given to us.

00:17:05.79
Kevin Shock
it its it Yes, yes, to share the blessings and gifts that have been given to us. Yeah.

00:17:11.41
Nathan Pile
yeah And what a powerful message for the church today, like for us today.

00:17:11.61
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:17:18.98
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:17:20.37
Nathan Pile
um

00:17:23.21
Nathan Pile
um One of the things we' you and I talk about on this podcast is that the church has more resources than it ever has had. um So how do we how do how do we share that in such a way as opposed to saying, oh, we don't have enough or we can't really share or we gotta get more people in here so that we have.

00:17:34.52
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:17:47.70
Nathan Pile
But there's there's things about we as the church that a we can be doing because again, the the thing that John and and Peter are doing is simply going and being present.

00:17:50.37
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:18:03.83
Nathan Pile
It's not that they're taking huge financial gifts. They're just going and walking alongside those who are, have been opened to this relationship with God in new ways, in new ways.

00:18:20.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and ah I can imagine that there would be people who would dispute our claim that the church has more resources than it ever does.

00:18:30.64
Kevin Shock
And I think that probably in some corners of the church, in our own corner of the church, we are seeing a decrease in some of the resources that we've had. um but um But we also have

00:18:39.99
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

00:18:43.98
Kevin Shock
And again, not every congregation, but a lot of congregations have endowments or have monies in reserve or something like that. um And um I just, as someone who and someone who works in a regional church office, I sit back and think about how much more ministry we could be doing if only we were in better relationship with one another and shared our resources better with each other.

00:19:08.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah, go.

00:19:09.56
Kevin Shock
we We really could still, I mean, we are doing some powerful ministry. Our ministry would be made even more powerful with those relationships build up.

00:19:20.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:19:20.97
Kevin Shock
But you know, things get in the way like budgets and worship times and have to be in my building in order to see God. ah it Yeah, it's right, my schedule.

00:19:31.72
Nathan Pile
Or my schedule instead of what what might it be? what what What might it be to look like to live as community in some different ways? Yeah.

00:19:40.09
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:19:44.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah. i so When I make those comments, I'm not saying that we don't that there aren't some financial

00:19:44.51
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:19:50.15
Nathan Pile
challenges. there We see some financial challenges because of the way that we budget and the way that we think about things, but but um most of our contexts have buildings, it has people, and it has some and does have some financial resources, which to say all three of those things are happening in the history of the church, um in and not just in big communities, but in most communities,

00:19:52.42
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Hmm.

00:20:16.61
Nathan Pile
that that that shows a ah bit of of um of wealth, to say that you have all of those things happening, not in just major cities, buddy and and leadership, to you know not just people, but people with leadership.

00:20:23.80
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:20:34.48
Nathan Pile
you know like Those are all assets to us as as the people of God. So, yeah. yeah But I appreciate your clarification there to help others hear that.

00:20:46.57
Nathan Pile
so

00:20:47.20
Kevin Shock
Well, I don't, I don't think you're, I don't think you're far off when you say that we have more resources than we ever have.

00:20:52.25
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:20:52.41
Kevin Shock
I think yeah, i yeah. When you look at the buildings.

00:20:54.57
Nathan Pile
It's not just that everybody, I'm not saying that every building has giant endowments. I'm not saying that. That's not what I'm saying.

00:21:00.62
Kevin Shock
No, no, no.

00:21:01.72
Nathan Pile
But but there's more that to assets than money in hand or money in the bank. There's there's more to assets than that.

00:21:08.80
Kevin Shock
You're right, right. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep.

00:21:14.14
Nathan Pile
And so I think one of the places that we are poor in the church today, where I would say you know two or three generations ago, we were probably richer, which was people were willing to give of their time freely to the church.

00:21:31.77
Nathan Pile
That is it would be a deficit, I think. that there There is where we have some

00:21:35.23
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:21:37.32
Nathan Pile
um Like, the people are there, but do they have the time? um Or will they make the time? I think that is a part of one of the the deficits I see in the church as compared to two generations ago.

00:21:53.32
Nathan Pile
because many churches got built by, you know, four or five or six generations ago, um got built by the people who showed up and said, well, I got some extra lumber. I got some extra lumber.

00:22:03.56
Nathan Pile
I got some, I got some extra paint. Okay, let's put some walls on, um you know, kind of a thing.

00:22:05.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:22:09.92
Nathan Pile
And it was whole communities, more than one faith tradition that came together and built a church. And then they share that church. Well, now we all have to have our own churches. you know, Lutherans and United Church of Christ and Methodists and Presbyterians and that doesn't include, you know, and then you all of the denominations that go on after that, like the 43,000 Christian denominations that there are on the planet.

00:22:19.89
Kevin Shock
Right. Right. Yeah.

00:22:35.22
Nathan Pile
We've all built our own buildings, but so yeah.

00:22:41.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um I uh I guess we've we've heard just what you just said there made me think that we've heard that term social capital before that talks about the investment that we put into relationships and being community.

00:22:59.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:23:00.12
Kevin Shock
And and so ah in regard to this conversation about resources, we have

00:23:09.53
Kevin Shock
We, we have, we put more, I think that are are just our societal value right now is to put more emphasis on financial capital.

00:23:21.16
Kevin Shock
And so that's, that's how we think we build up resources.

00:23:26.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:23:27.59
Kevin Shock
But, um,

00:23:30.76
Kevin Shock
but But what we have done that at the expense of social capital, we've lost social capital and social capital is greatly important in building up resources because just for the reason you said that, you know, you have you have this large group of people where one person says, you know, I have i have some extra lumber. One person says I can offer some, I can donate some labor. One person, you know, you have all these people putting things into it and that they're able to do that because they're in relationship with one another.

00:24:00.63
Nathan Pile
so No.

00:24:01.32
Kevin Shock
and And then they build something amazing. And we we don't the relationships are not existent anymore. Not that they're completely non-existent, but you're right. we We have put all of our focus into building up things.

00:24:17.04
Kevin Shock
individually or parochially, meaning you know each each parish, each congregation has to be that thing. And that's the that's the even I'm not even talking about like physical resources.

00:24:29.11
Kevin Shock
um you know i've I've spent some time trying to talk congregations lately out of um that they have to have every ministry for every person.

00:24:39.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:24:39.48
Kevin Shock
you know, because a healthy congregation in their mind means we have we have our own pastor, we have worship on Sunday mornings, we have a Sunday school program, ah you know, we we offer um we offer ah care and fellowship for our senior adults, you know, the like that they have all of these programs for like differing ages and things like that. And I've tried to tell congregations, look at look at who are the people that need your ministry right now and focus on ministering to them.

00:25:11.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:25:12.58
Kevin Shock
maybe Maybe you don't need a children's Sunday school program on Sunday morning, but maybe you need ah ah ah an after-school care program or place for kids to go ah one day a week, um or or maybe there just aren't any kids right around you.

00:25:33.53
Kevin Shock
and But you have all of these senior people who come to your congregation every Sunday morning, focus on doing something for them.

00:25:40.67
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:25:41.61
Kevin Shock
um and And if the church down the street has the after-school care program, let them have it. Let let them do it and and find ways to build a relationship with them so that you can help them do that better because it's still ministering to your community.

00:26:01.20
Kevin Shock
and and that's And it's hard for people to hear because then it becomes, well, then they won't come to our church. ah but it And then then you raise the point, is is the is the goal to get people to come to your church or is it to do ministry for your community?

00:26:20.64
Kevin Shock
And if there there is a right answer to that question.

00:26:26.11
Nathan Pile
Well, I really appreciate that clarification of of social capital.

00:26:27.22
Kevin Shock
There's a right and a wrong answer to that question. I hate to say it.

00:26:34.19
Nathan Pile
um

00:26:35.12
Kevin Shock
who Who was it who coined that phrase? was that ah Was that a Robert Putnam thing? Was that a "Bowling Alone" thing or did it come before him?

00:26:41.50
Nathan Pile
I don't, I don't know.

00:26:41.64
Kevin Shock
I don't know.

00:26:42.67
Nathan Pile
I don't know.

00:26:42.91
Kevin Shock
ah But it but it is it's an important, I think it's an important concept when we're talking about, yeah.

00:26:46.48
Nathan Pile
yeah Yeah, there's financial capital, social capital, um and I think you' you're right. there We would be at a deficit of social capital, and a and we've reversed that. So in 50, 100 years, whatever, you know I don't know exactly. like You'd have to really kind of do some research to kind of narrow down that time, but I think we've shifted Somewhere along the line, our culture convinced us that financial capital was more important than social capital as that as the community of faith. And so we bought into it, we drank the Kool-Aid, and we made a push for those kinds of things. um And so now they we need to take the physical financial assets that we have to help us.

00:27:29.99
Nathan Pile
go back and relearn social capital, the, the, the importances of those those lessons.

00:27:32.87
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:27:35.29
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yeah

00:27:35.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:27:38.14
Nathan Pile
So, all right.

00:27:39.19
Kevin Shock
All right. I think we should look at it a second time.

00:27:43.44
Nathan Pile
I couldn't agree with you more, Kevin, that just really super insightful, um, that, and he's looking at the timer and seeing that we've only been on the first question for 27 minutes.

00:27:54.21
Nathan Pile
So, um,

00:27:56.95
Kevin Shock
You don't know that. You're right. You don't know that.

00:28:01.00
Nathan Pile
Now, when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the Word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. These two went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon them, any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

00:28:28.48
Nathan Pile
Then Peter and John placed their hands on the Samaritans and they received the Holy Spirit.

00:28:38.88
Nathan Pile
ah Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:28:47.02
Kevin Shock
I, I think ah prayer. um i i will I will be working to improve my prayer life until the day I die. I don't think I will ever be in a place where I feel like it's where I want it to be. um But this ah this this reading really highlights for me the importance of praying for ah other communities.

00:29:15.14
Kevin Shock
and and other people. and um And the power that prayer has, I'm i'm not even gonna say, i'm not going I think that i think that the the outcomes that prayer can bring about are myriad. So I'm not even gonna go into what the outcomes could be, but I do think that prayer is a powerful ah a powerful tool in building relationship and in um in bringing growth, and I'm not necessarily talking about um expansive gross growth, it could be deepening growth ah to the church as well. So I think that um think that a lot of times for me, and I think it's true for some other people,

00:30:09.80
Kevin Shock
Maybe quite a few other people. we we tend to We tend to pray for people when we know that they're in need. um the When the reality is, everyone in every community always has some kind of need. ah And so I think even when we don't know what

00:30:34.27
Kevin Shock
a congregation or a community or a town, a person needs, we can still effectively pray for them. And it's a good thing to do so.

00:30:47.50
Nathan Pile
Well, and how it softens our heart.

00:30:50.61
Kevin Shock
Well, that was what that was that was one of the one of the outcomes that I was not gonna try to project on other people.

00:30:58.83
Nathan Pile
Oh, well.

00:30:59.35
Kevin Shock
but but But yes, I will just come out and say, yes, that that indeed is an outcome in my mind. That's that's an important outcome.

00:31:08.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:31:08.85
Kevin Shock
And and I we're gonna tip into third question answers if we go down that road much farther, yeah.

00:31:13.52
Nathan Pile
Go too far, yeah, ah yeah, yeah.

00:31:16.13
Kevin Shock
So what about you, Nathan? what is ah what What is God urging you toward in this text?

00:31:22.10
Nathan Pile
um

00:31:25.57
Nathan Pile
So a couple of things that I'll be honest, the toward, as I read this a second time, there was some other things that kind of played off for me. um And wondering about

00:31:46.12
Nathan Pile
you know, what what inhibited the spirit to show up was the peace that that that kind of stuck out to me. So I went back up and looked at that career.

00:31:54.63
Kevin Shock
Oh, asking that question, you mean?

00:31:57.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, so instead of, I agree with you that that the thing that I feel called toward, it would be pray, would be prayer. um Because here, prayer is a powerful piece. When we pray for others, it, um it it um

00:32:13.11
Nathan Pile
yes, it can soften our heart, but it also, um

00:32:19.55
Nathan Pile
it's it's like um It's like a ah cheering fan who has nothing.

00:32:29.46
Nathan Pile
They benefit in no way from the outcome other than they're standing there cheering you on. you know I think of different people in my life that have done that, um that have been cheerleaders that have supported me and and in some ways given me confidence

00:32:49.07
Nathan Pile
in being a disciple of Christ who did nothing more than, you know, pray, pray for me, um cheer for, you know, be on the sidelines, not necessarily physically on the sidelines, but it feels as if they're on the sidelines, cheering for you in life, saying, you can do this, Nathan, it'll be okay, keep going.

00:33:12.23
Nathan Pile
you know, all of the things that we need to hear. um And so this idea of of that piece of prayer um is a part of it. So that I do feel called toward um as we do that and and and and I appreciate your piece of that we do it for others, that we seek out for others, seek out in our own prayer life to to those individuals that we,

00:33:41.02
Nathan Pile
see or from conversations, no need prayer um that we that we do share that, I think is a powerful piece. But again, I was stuck on that word accepted and and I was reminded a little bit about um the word that is, I had to go look, it was deco-mi is the word that's being used here.

00:34:07.04
Nathan Pile
and and And so, deco mai means to receive, to accept, and to welcome.

00:34:15.01
Nathan Pile
So the apostles heard that's the samaria sumaritan the samaria that Samaria had welcomed the Word of God. probably and And I like that better, or received the Word of God over that accepted part.

00:34:31.87
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:34:34.66
Nathan Pile
Only because I grabbed my Bible off the shelf that I have and I pulled it down and above accepted I have underlined and the word welcome written in and I'm like, oh, I would like the word welcome better than I would like the word accepted.

00:34:49.41
Nathan Pile
um

00:34:52.26
Nathan Pile
Because there's something about that accepted language as Lutheran Christians that I think turns our stomach a little bit. um Like it's my it's it's me doing this and yet we we say over and over again, God is the one who's acting and is engaged in these in this story with us. And usually is the

00:35:15.85
Nathan Pile
anything good that comes out of it is coming out of it because of God, it not because of Nathan did it.

00:35:20.47
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:35:21.79
Nathan Pile
Nathan accepted this gift. and so um But then I wondered, well, what's keeping this spirit from um from the people of Samaria?

00:35:33.62
Nathan Pile
If they've been baptized, as we as Lutheran Christians believe, the gift the gift of baptism brings with it that gift of the Holy Spirit. ah

00:35:46.03
Nathan Pile
And yet there's about the presence of these of Peter and John showing up. And yes, the prayer that's involved, but something about their presence helps helps the people of Samaria know and trust that they that the the gift of the Holy Spirit has come upon them.

00:36:11.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:36:13.19
Nathan Pile
so So that's where my head went.

00:36:14.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:36:15.22
Nathan Pile
As I read this a second time, i had to kind of i still it was still chewing on me a little bit, bit but there's something about their presence. um and And again, I think it can be done in prayer. I think it can be done in intimate ways that that praying with someone, praying for them with in their presence,

00:36:39.07
Nathan Pile
as as um as rostered leaders or pastors of the Lutheran Church, Kevin and I have had the experience of praying for someone, like sometimes they're on their deathbed, sometimes they're in ah and a hospital bed, sometimes they're just at home and have felt very lonely. um But the intimate nature that prayer can be for that moment when we're with someone else.

00:37:06.13
Nathan Pile
um but When I was a parish pastor, one of the things we used to do at the end of every service was individuals could come forward for an individual blessing.

00:37:16.75
Kevin Shock
Mm.

00:37:17.00
Nathan Pile
um And it was always, um again, I never felt like it was anything that I did. It was always just a ah moment of prayer for the individual and for myself um and it was oftentimes kept between us whatever like they would share what their they needed a prayer for and and then I would share that prayer or blessing upon them in words and so but it was always it always felt very intimate to me of of two people together and so ah and to be honest it's one of the things that I

00:37:53.84
Nathan Pile
ah Like I wonder if the parish continues to practice that piece of their life together because some days it could last 10 or 15 minutes. People would come up if it was a bad week or, you know, until there was, again, just an intimate per A.

00:38:04.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:38:12.25
Nathan Pile
me being vulnerable enough to tell another person, Hey, I need prayer for this. And then that other person saying, let's pray about it together. Um, ah just something about that. And so John and Peter here feel that way to me, you know, holy always there. And it was just now the Samaritan, the the Samaritans felt, Oh, yeah, maybe.

00:38:40.62
Nathan Pile
um

00:38:43.36
Nathan Pile
What we do know is that they felt the Holy Spirit when this when this when their visit was over.

00:38:50.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:38:52.42
Nathan Pile
you know and so

00:38:53.31
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:38:53.71
Nathan Pile
um so it goes All of that goes back to you, kind of that idea of prayer and ah and and the our own striving to be better at it in our life um for ourselves, but also for everyone else that we walk alongside with.

00:39:14.07
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:39:16.42
Nathan Pile
So.

00:39:18.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's some I really appreciate your reflection there. That's it. i I think your, your story about how you used to do that with people in the parish, uh, highlights the great need that exists for it.

00:39:36.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:39:37.35
Kevin Shock
And, um, yeah, and, and, and, uh, and also what it does to transform the community.

00:39:39.19
Nathan Pile
Well, and we, and

00:39:43.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah, and and I'll be honest, as a as the new pastor called to that setting, it was really uncomfortable for the first year or so.

00:39:44.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:39:53.63
Nathan Pile
like ah I now look back on it and say it was a it was a special thing, but that was after doing it for six and seven years. like Every week, every... Now, again, part of our seminary education was that we did that in other spaces, in ah in a hospital, in a congregational visit setting where you're oftentimes in somebody's home, in a little bit more private space.

00:40:11.21
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:40:16.70
Nathan Pile
And so to do it up in front of everybody always, like that first year, I would say, you know I don't remember exactly, but I do remember that it was felt more awkward than it did year six and seven.

00:40:28.99
Nathan Pile
um

00:40:29.53
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah

00:40:30.40
Nathan Pile
you know being in that space and a part of that leader ah leadership of that congregation with others, it very much became a part of what I understood my my role to be in that space and place.

00:40:45.17
Nathan Pile
But at the same time, i probably now that I think about it, I would have yearned for it for everyone else in that congregation, for them to have that same awkward fight through it for a year so that you feel like you can do this for each other.

00:40:55.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Mm hmm.

00:40:59.92
Nathan Pile
because someday I'm going to be called somewhere else as as as a pastor.

00:41:00.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:41:05.30
Nathan Pile
like ah didn't Now that I think about it, I wish I would have found ways to help members of that congregation feel like they could do that for each other.

00:41:11.46
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:41:15.70
Nathan Pile
so a deficiency of my leadership at that time, but ah no not to say but negative. and like not I don't see that as a it was a negative thing, but it would like looking back, boy, as a as a leader in a church today, how can we help each other pray for each other in those intimate moments? When you've said something that takes the breath out of my lungs and I know it takes the breath out of your lungs, how do I pause for a moment and say,

00:41:43.24
Nathan Pile
I'm going to pray for God right now with you, like it's not a part of our Lutheran Christian tradition. There are other traditions that are really good about saying, hey, let's pray about this right now.

00:41:52.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:41:53.37
Nathan Pile
We are not so good about that. It could be our German, it could be our German side too, I don't know.

00:41:55.94
Kevin Shock
Well, and I think, and I think, no, no, no, I do think, I think it has something to do with our are cultural cultural DNA, so to speak.

00:42:06.47
Kevin Shock
um but i But I also think that there are sometimes when, um i think I think that ah you can you can err on either side.

00:42:18.72
Kevin Shock
um of, I don't want to say i don't wanna say you can pray too much, but but i do but I do feel like you can sometimes. I mean, I just feel like I can think of situations that I've been in where it's like, we're offering a prayer here. And it it feels, I guess what I want to say is it feels more like we're offering a prayer just for the sake of offering a prayer.

00:42:42.92
Kevin Shock
than actually engaging in a in ah in a in a mindful, thoughtful way with God in the situation.

00:42:52.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:42:52.35
Kevin Shock
um But I will say I what you say is also true, or at least how I'm interpreting it it right now, um that in our tradition, there are times when we probably should pray that we need to we need to do a better job of tuning into the Holy Spirit who might be leading us to pray um and not just doing it whenever we think of it, so to speak.

00:43:23.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, anyway.

00:43:25.38
Nathan Pile
Well, it's funny that it's not funny. It's it's um interesting to me that you say this when Friday I had the ah was working with a group that was here on camp's property and um I got done. We were working on team building for to help them work with each other in team building. And the leader of the group said, hey, could you pray for us right now? um We just have a big year coming up. And I hadn't been a part of any other conversation. So I just didn't know what the heck I was praying for.

00:43:54.56
Kevin Shock
ah Okay, yeah.

00:43:55.35
Nathan Pile
like And so I just did it because as the pastor at camp, you get asked to pray sometimes. And so you just prayed.

00:44:01.37
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:44:03.74
Nathan Pile
But there wasn't any of the, well, what art you like I hadn't been with them all day. And so like I prayed in such a way that I said, you know we've been gathered here today um talking about the the work that we're going to do together.

00:44:18.58
Nathan Pile
um And of course I didn't know the, I don't, I know the community, but I don't know that like there's 22 people in this group. So are they all Christians? I don't, I don't know. Like, how do I make my language not exclusionary?

00:44:30.46
Kevin Shock
Oh, that's a...

00:44:31.87
Nathan Pile
How do I not like it? would Yeah. It's a, it's a, this was a government entity that was there. Um, that was here. Um, and so like, like I feel weird in some ways, like, I don't know what everybody's, but the leader asked and I was like, sure.

00:44:42.37
Kevin Shock
Huh.

00:44:46.07
Nathan Pile
Okay. And so we just kinda. They all came around and got into a big circle and I prayed. and um but like how do we so in my I had my own apprehensions about like what am I praying for?

00:44:59.68
Nathan Pile
what am I How do I provide some words here and as they get prayer for 2025 and the work that they're going to do together?

00:45:06.84
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:45:06.86
Nathan Pile
um In my mind, I would call some of what they do ministry because they help They help the those, the last, the least, the lonely, and the lost, and the lame within our county, like that's the the social type of an agency that they are, but they're all they're mostly funded from the government kind of a thing. And so um and so in my mind, what meant much of what they do is ministry-based.

00:45:32.91
Nathan Pile
um

00:45:35.40
Nathan Pile
in that they're caring for one another. They're living and walking alongside one another. But I tried to not use that word ministry. I tried to use the word work that we do to get, you know, again, in the midst of that prayer.

00:45:44.78
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:45:45.59
Nathan Pile
But like, as we were sitting there praying, I'm like, boy, this feels awkward. I wish I knew a little bit more about what was going on and how I could help. What what could my words be that will bring um

00:46:00.02
Nathan Pile
attention to to what it is that they're they're trying to accomplish this day. Because ah i they they were here for seven hours and I was with them for an hour. And all we talked about was team building kind of thing. Like I came with activities and then they sought to work together to accomplish those ah the challenges that that that we that I put in front of them. And then we debriefed it and talked about how how could we you know how could we be better at the teamwork that we accomplish every day.

00:46:28.20
Nathan Pile
So there's there's something about that authentic prayer, the language that we use. and And so being a part of the community helps that. And obviously, I didn't feel that way on Friday.

00:46:39.60
Nathan Pile
As like again, sharing the things that you shared, like that was I was like, oh, that's probably part of why I felt weird about this.

00:46:40.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:46.54
Nathan Pile
Because I didn't ah didn't have some of the connections to the community.

00:46:46.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm hmm.

00:46:50.81
Nathan Pile
And it would have been better for somebody that was in the room the whole day to have prayed. um

00:46:57.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:58.98
Nathan Pile
because that that made some sense for them, because they were together.

00:46:59.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, yeah.

00:47:04.12
Kevin Shock
And and I think we'll, go ahead.

00:47:04.27
Nathan Pile
So, but, no, I was just gonna say, like, I tried to put words to something that I wasn't a part of, and that's hard.

00:47:06.60
Kevin Shock
Sorry.

00:47:12.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is hard to do that. I also think that maybe, um

00:47:20.01
Kevin Shock
again, I think i think that you you probably provided a service for them that they needed, um even though you didn't feel like you were prepared for it. um and ah And I think sometimes that, sometimes we're we as people of faith are called into that.

00:47:38.82
Kevin Shock
um I also think that, ah

00:47:39.80
Nathan Pile
sure

00:47:42.63
Kevin Shock
that probably Peter and John also didn't know a lot about the situation that they were going into.

00:47:48.74
Nathan Pile
Right, true.

00:47:48.94
Kevin Shock
ah um But but but they were they were going there with a specific purpose.

00:47:49.88
Nathan Pile
Right, true.

00:47:53.88
Kevin Shock
And so I think that they probably had some kind of idea about the things that they wanted to pray for and needed to pray for in those moments. um So yeah, yeah.

00:48:04.64
Nathan Pile
Well, and even if they didn't know when they got there, if they spent time with them, they learned what they what they were going to pray for.

00:48:11.05
Kevin Shock
but That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

00:48:13.86
Nathan Pile
No.

00:48:14.34
Kevin Shock
They were entering into deeper relationship with those people.

00:48:15.12
Nathan Pile
No.

00:48:17.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:18.26
Nathan Pile
No.

00:48:18.94
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:48:19.24
Nathan Pile
No.

00:48:20.27
Kevin Shock
Yeah. ah that That just reminds me too.

00:48:21.54
Nathan Pile
No.

00:48:22.79
Kevin Shock
you You said something early on in the answer to this question about, um you know, ah like how how did they know they hadn't received the Holy Spirit?

00:48:33.17
Kevin Shock
Or I can't remember exactly what you said. you know They'd been baptized.

00:48:35.52
Nathan Pile
no

00:48:36.21
Kevin Shock
um i Yeah, i i there's in the book of Acts, you know this, Nathan. I'm just saying this for the benefit of anyone else who's listening who may or may not know this.

00:48:46.76
Kevin Shock
Just to remind us that in the book of Acts, water and the Spirit are a part of every baptism. But sometimes the Spirit comes first and then the water comes later. Sometimes the water comes first and then the Spirit comes later.

00:48:59.37
Kevin Shock
um and And we, after 2000 years, have gotten used to the practice. And so like an our in our right in the in the Lutheran church and in many other traditional and um branches of the Christian church um or historical branches of the Christian church, but we put water in the spirit all in the same right. But but even you know remember Nathan, I know you know this, but but those two things are separate in our right.

00:49:29.74
Kevin Shock
um we baptize with water in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

00:49:31.05
Nathan Pile
Yes.

00:49:33.70
Kevin Shock
And then after we do that, we do lay hands on the person and pray for the Holy Spirit to come upon them. And then and then we also anoint in our tradition, we anoint them saying, um making the sign of the cross with oil on their forehead and saying that ah you have been marked with the cross of Christ and sealed with the Holy Spirit forever.

00:49:58.31
Kevin Shock
So it sounds like it it almost sounds like the the book of Acts is making a division where there doesn't need to be one. um But I think, first of all, they're the early church, so they're leaning into it.

00:50:11.53
Kevin Shock
ah They're learning still.

00:50:11.99
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

00:50:13.19
Kevin Shock
And um but we essentially do the same thing. We just do it all at the same time.

00:50:17.36
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:50:18.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:18.82
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a part of our tradition. And it's a part, again, with what i what I know, what, you know, what I grew up with.

00:50:23.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:24.39
Nathan Pile
but um And so it's weird here to have this idea of, but I i appreciate your clarification of being able to say, you know, whoever did the baptism forgot the second part, so they had to send Peter and John.

00:50:37.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And and I don't think I don't think it would ever happen.

00:50:40.32
Nathan Pile
I don't

00:50:41.85
Kevin Shock
But if the story came to me that someone, you know, someone said to me, oh, yeah, I was I was baptized. ah You know, I was baptized recently. I had the water port on my head and ah and they they somehow in the conversation told me that, well, no one no one prayed for me or no one anointed me with oil.

00:50:58.67
Kevin Shock
I would I would say, did do you mind if I do it? Like, like I would I would want to do it.

00:51:02.28
Nathan Pile
yeah sure

00:51:04.82
Kevin Shock
I would feel like, I would feel like, you know, that you're not you're not necessarily missing out on anything, but let's just be sure.

00:51:05.10
Nathan Pile
sure

00:51:11.90
Kevin Shock
let

00:51:12.69
Nathan Pile
Let's give you some confidence as you move forward.

00:51:15.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:51:15.73
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:51:15.85
Kevin Shock
And maybe give me some confidence too.

00:51:17.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:51:18.02
Kevin Shock
that Yeah.

00:51:18.68
Nathan Pile
Oh yeah.

00:51:21.61
Kevin Shock
All right.

00:51:21.89
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:51:21.97
Kevin Shock
Well, um, let's look at acts eight a third time.

00:51:23.84
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:51:26.55
Kevin Shock
Now, when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. These two went down and prayed for them so that they would receive the Holy Spirit, for the Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on the Samaritans and they received the Holy Spirit. Nathan, how might the Holy Spirit change your view of others?

00:51:56.77
Nathan Pile
um As we said earlier, it revealed our hand a little bit um because you were trying to avoid the third question.

00:52:02.98
Kevin Shock
Hm.

00:52:05.05
Nathan Pile
I just jumped in with both feet. um But I think as I have found in my life's experience, when the Holy Spirit is working on me um to change my view of others,

00:52:23.87
Nathan Pile
um A, I start to get to know them. And um and I realized that maybe judgments or things that I held against them, not out of anything that I actually knew, a prejudice and that I might have, um but like that prejudice piece, as I get to know them, I'm like, oh, I'm wrong about who they are.

00:52:53.45
Nathan Pile
And so this piece of the Holy Spirit, um

00:52:58.44
Nathan Pile
my the way that it changes me towards others, I use the word of softening my heart. Yes, it helps soften my heart, but it also helps me to to see them and value them as human beings um that are different than I am, um ah but the who still have immense value in the eyes of God.

00:53:12.91
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:53:22.60
Nathan Pile
And so the Holy Spirit often is most of the time subtle, not always subtle, um but slowly kind of, it's like um like God is is is slowly working on helping me to kind of see, oh, you said this thing about so-and-so, but now you start to get to know him.

00:53:29.09
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:53:46.81
Nathan Pile
I can remember back years and years ago when I was like as a camp director, um I started as a program director and so I was young and you know impulsive and I had gone to a camp conference and and was sitting and talking to other young camp leaders ah about another camp leader who I didn't know but my only interaction was that that I had heard that that he had gotten a job that that somebody that I knew and love in camp camping world didn't get that job.

00:54:17.65
Nathan Pile
And so I automatically just said, well, like he's like an enemy. In my head, I made that judgment about him and kind of said, oh, he's a jerk.

00:54:23.40
Kevin Shock
yeah right right

00:54:25.91
Nathan Pile
you know And so I came to find out years later that he was in the hallway and overheard me saying it to these other young camp leaders.

00:54:34.17
Kevin Shock
ah

00:54:34.27
Nathan Pile
And and so that always, so he just kind of stayed away from me. And so what we were talking about 15 years later was that I didn't know him well and that I was sorry that I didn't know him well.

00:54:46.79
Nathan Pile
And then he kind of shared, well, this is part of the reason why I stayed away from you.

00:54:47.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right.

00:54:51.18
Nathan Pile
And I thought, oh, stupid Nathan.

00:54:55.61
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:56.07
Nathan Pile
um

00:54:56.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:57.19
Nathan Pile
you know So there's this idea that, and so obviously the the my heart had softened um and and I learned things and it wasn't so much that I learned things um learned things about this individual, um which was you know which was showed me that my judgment of of him was wrong um when I was young and made those brash comments about the person who I didn't know at the time.

00:54:58.10
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:55:23.75
Nathan Pile
um But there was, a the again, the Holy Spirit kind of working and and now you know now we have a relationship and and I've gotten to know him and value um his wisdom and the things that he does know about outdoor ministries because he's a good leader in the church.

00:55:40.81
Nathan Pile
But at the time, you know as young,

00:55:40.86
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:55:43.49
Nathan Pile
you know, there was things that I said that got in the way of that relationship. So like, I'm glad the Holy Spirit found ways to mend both of us and brought us together. ah But that wasn't due to anything that I did. That was absolutely the Holy Spirit kind of working. And so I think about that um in the context of your question here of of like, how might the Holy Spirit change your views? Well, the Holy Spirit helps me to see things that I didn't see and and and helps me to be more open to to them. Again, that's a word of accept as opposed to receive or welcome. Like the Holy Spirit helps me to be more welcoming, helps me to be helps me to receive others um into my into my life that that will enrich me if I can keep from judging them on the front end of things.

00:56:40.61
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:56:41.70
Nathan Pile
So I think how I see the Holy Spirit changing by by helping me to be more open, by helping me to to see who they are and and listening to who they are, it helps me to to kind of value them as human beings, whether they're a Christian or not.

00:56:42.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:57:03.21
Nathan Pile
if I can remain open to that um with the gift of that Holy Spirit, keeping me from casting judgment on them when I hear them describe themselves in whatever way I might feel like might cause them to be a, I don't want to say an enemy, but somebody different than I am. And so therefore I start to make judgment about them just because they're not who I think they should be.

00:57:30.13
Nathan Pile
If the Holy Spirit can help me to do that, boy, then I get to see who they are and get to value them for who they are in different ways.

00:57:36.25
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:57:40.83
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend?

00:57:42.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, I I honestly, I honestly don't think I have anything to add.

00:57:42.97
Nathan Pile
um

00:57:47.39
Kevin Shock
I think i what you say about softening my heart, um that that is something that happens. ah And that is ah I think any time we're able to work, we we are open to seeing people in a new way. The Holy Spirit has a way of speaking to us truth about those people. And um I, yeah. Yeah, i don't I don't have the exact story that you told, but I have stories that I feel like are close to it. um You know, people people that I didn't, um

00:58:31.56
Kevin Shock
I mean, I get along with just about everybody, but sometimes I get along with people because I keep them at arm's length. and And I can think of people in seminary who I probably kept at arm's length that um now I i you know ah don't and don't necessarily have close relationship with any of them, but I i do interact with them on social media. And i think I've thought to myself a few times my goodness, this is someone that I would love to have in our Senate or, you know, uh, you know, not, not someone that I, um, have the urge to like go out and visit them or anything like that.

00:59:00.32
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah.

00:59:08.72
Kevin Shock
But, uh, but that I value from afar as a colleague and, and I think what you have said, a lot of it has to do with we've both grown over time.

00:59:24.50
Kevin Shock
Um, But I can't, in all of the situations, I know that I have been the one who has had to grow more in order to see the value of that person. And and sometimes growth is also synonymous with being humbled.

00:59:42.63
Kevin Shock
um it i I don't think of myself as a prideful person, but I can see the way that pride has affected the way that I view others.

00:59:54.66
Kevin Shock
And and the Holy Spirit has the ability to teach us teach us just about anything about anyone, and also teach us about ourselves through relationship with others.

00:59:54.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:00:12.94
Kevin Shock
And um sometimes we don't like what we learn, But then the Holy Spirit also shows us ways to grow from that. Yeah.

01:00:27.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I do too.

01:00:28.14
Nathan Pile
Well, I give I give thanks for that. the The spirit is working in these ways in our own lives.

01:00:34.90
Kevin Shock
I do too.

01:00:34.97
Nathan Pile
and have been and have come more in in line with recognizing that sometimes I need to, as you share, be humble and and say, I was wrong. you know um Maybe they don't need to hear that. Maybe they need to hear, I was wrong for keeping you at arm's length or whatever that is, but that the that the spirit works on us to help us see others more fully, I think is truly a blessing.

01:01:02.43
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I agree. Yeah.

01:01:08.65
Nathan Pile
All right, a couple of additional texts. Isaiah 43, chapter 43, verses one through seven, when you pass through the waters, do not fear for I am with you. A familiar text, Psalm 29, the voice of the Lord is upon the waters.

01:01:28.14
Nathan Pile
And Luke chapter three, verses 15 through 17 and 21 through 22. This is the baptism of Jesus with the descent of the Holy Spirit upon um upon the Christ child.

01:01:40.93
Nathan Pile
So, or upon the Christ, he's not a child anymore. He's a young man um in the world, so.

01:01:45.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah. and And this is, um yeah, the just quickly, the this is also, ah these are the readings for the festival that we call baptism of our Lord in the church.

01:01:55.43
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:01:58.96
Kevin Shock
So that's, yeah, it's Jesus is getting baptized in this too.

01:02:00.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:02:03.18
Kevin Shock
That's why there's so much baptismal imagery in these texts.

01:02:03.85
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:02:07.56
Kevin Shock
That's all.

01:02:08.43
Nathan Pile
Yeah, so yeah that common theme that kind of runs over all of those. So, well, Kevin, thank you as always for your reflections and for especially this conversation of of the gift of the Holy Spirit that works in our lives.

01:02:22.26
Nathan Pile
I'm gonna keep wrestling with this idea of prayer this weekend. I'm confident of it. So, um we hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

01:02:26.97
Kevin Shock
Mmm.

01:02:30.61
Nathan Pile
Grace to you.

01:02:31.89
Kevin Shock
And peace.