Episode 24: John 13:1-17, 31b-35

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What makes it difficult for you to follow one simple commandment?

Additional texts:

Exodus 12:1-14

Psalm 116:1-2, 12-19

1 Corinthians 11:23-26

Transcript

00:00:02.06
Kevin Shock
um Nathan and I have hit a new record that we've been talking for almost three hours before we hit play on the podcast. So I don't know about Nathan, but I'm kind of ready for a nap. um

00:00:17.36
Kevin Shock
No, it it obviously it was...

00:00:18.30
Nathan Pile
we we've not solved any problems but it has been good conversation

00:00:24.03
Kevin Shock
Well, no, I, no, I disagree. Nathan solved a problem for me, at least temporarily. He did.

00:00:30.32
Nathan Pile
oh okay

00:00:30.78
Kevin Shock
He temporarily solved a problem for me. And I'm, I'm very appreciative of that. ah You should know that when Nathan I have a conversation, we're not just like shooting the breeze. um We, it's usually pretty deep.

00:00:42.54
Kevin Shock
So that's, that's why I say I need a nap, but I am ready. We have not talked a lot about the scripture yet this morning.

00:00:49.62
Nathan Pile
Mm-mm, no.

00:00:49.92
Kevin Shock
So, um,

00:00:51.57
Kevin Shock
I think, I think it's time for us to turn to that, especially since we're now recording, uh, this, uh, this podcast episode gets us into, I guess, technically the last one did, but these are this one in the next episode, our special edition episodes, because we are in Holy week, uh, or as this drops moving into Holy week.

00:01:14.04
Kevin Shock
And so this is a episode about a text that we read on Maundy Thursday. Um, the first day of the great three days of celebration.

00:01:26.29
Kevin Shock
um I guess technically it starts in the evening. I'm not sure what the timing is, but it's the the chief feast of the Christian faith is the three days.

00:01:34.03
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yeah.

00:01:36.35
Kevin Shock
And so this is this is leading us into that. um So today we're going to be looking at John chapter 13, verses 1 through 17 and 31b through 35.

00:01:50.96
Kevin Shock
Nathan and I are looking at the Common English Bible. I'll say Nathan right off the bat, I just chose without looking at a bunch of different translations, I wanted to hear these texts from the Common English Bible translation.

00:02:02.68
Kevin Shock
So I didn't even look around, but this one and the Good Friday text are both CEB translation that we're using.

00:02:03.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:02:09.08
Nathan Pile
Okay.

00:02:10.79
Kevin Shock
um And our three questions for this episode, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And I don't want to hear this as a as accusatory, but what makes it difficult for you to follow one simple commandment?

00:02:28.28
Nathan Pile
Well, we'll have plenty to talk about there. Um,

00:02:31.97
Kevin Shock
Well, let's read the text and then we can have a conversation about it.

00:02:34.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, we will.

00:02:35.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:02:35.56
Nathan Pile
um I do, one of the things Kevin said was talking about the three days and and then he he inserted, and I guess that's really, it starts in the evening.

00:02:47.01
Nathan Pile
um And so just to expound on what he said and why it is um of interest to us, um the three day,

00:03:00.31
Nathan Pile
um Celebration, um some of you might also call into question, well, it doesn't really feel like a celebration. That's true at the beginning. um But it starts in the, it's a feast.

00:03:11.59
Kevin Shock
It's a feast

00:03:13.65
Nathan Pile
um And so, ah but it starts in the evening because our um siblings of the Hebrew tradition, the the new day starts on, at evening.

00:03:30.63
Nathan Pile
And so when we talk about three days, it starts the evening of Thursday night um because that is when they gather for,

00:03:43.92
Nathan Pile
for the meal and for Passover um as a part of their tradition. And so it also plays out for us in the same way.

00:03:57.75
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:03:59.33
Nathan Pile
your Your screen froze for a minute, so I thought I lost you, but you're you're good. So, okay.

00:04:03.59
Kevin Shock
No, I don't even think my screen froze. I think I was just, ah I was still listening.

00:04:08.36
Nathan Pile
ah just You said about evening, yeah, you said about evening, and I just wanted to kind of articulate why it's evening.

00:04:10.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:13.62
Nathan Pile
It's not so much that we...

00:04:13.69
Kevin Shock
No, heard all that.

00:04:15.17
Nathan Pile
yeah No, I knew I know you already knew the answer to all of it, but um the evening piece was the piece I wanted to take a moment just to explain, um is is why everything happens in in the evening, and that is because of ah tradition that continues...

00:04:24.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:04:34.80
Nathan Pile
from our siblings um of the of the Hebrew faith.

00:04:36.80
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:04:38.35
Nathan Pile
So.

00:04:39.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right. And and even it's often well, I don't want to say often, but at least in the area where we live, um the Easter vigil is not often celebrated.

00:04:53.08
Kevin Shock
But that really is the that's the primary or that's that's the first celebration of the resurrection, which takes place beginning Saturday night.

00:05:04.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:05:04.85
Nathan Pile
No. No. So, um here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable ah households, white, firmly in our middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

00:05:23.22
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

00:05:40.09
Nathan Pile
So we're, we want to know what you hear and think from your life's experience as you engage scripture. Um, and just reading that again, Kevin, I am, I'm reminded um,

00:05:58.04
Nathan Pile
that I'm glad we do this podcast and and we and we share this information every time.

00:06:04.31
Nathan Pile
Just in that that it takes us as community to wrestle with these words. and And when I say community, each of us from our own perspective, each of us from our own perspective,

00:06:17.11
Nathan Pile
sense of, of, uh, values and things that are important, uh, our, our lens, the way we look at the world. Um, and then we put that with everybody else's through shared conversation, um, gives us a fuller sense of what God is really calling us to as the people of God. So, um,

00:06:39.46
Nathan Pile
It took us a long time to get to this place where we were doing podcasts. And I can only hope that because it took us so long that maybe this part of it is, is moves us in a good direction.

00:06:52.59
Nathan Pile
So, um but reading it, it feels like it feels that way today again. So, so I, I share all that.

00:06:57.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I like to think that we put some thought into it.

00:07:01.61
Nathan Pile
We, yeah, we definitely, we definitely but did put some thought into it, but yeah.

00:07:02.09
Kevin Shock
And...

00:07:05.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. And, and also just the lift up to that. I, I have always learned a lot from people who are not like me.

00:07:13.10
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and having them help me interpret a piece of scripture that I, that I'm blind to is always a blessing.

00:07:24.89
Nathan Pile
Like helping me see a more fuller picture of, of the, of what God is, is teaching us in in a passage of scripture. But I don't know because my, so my experience is limited. And so my view is limited.

00:07:38.82
Nathan Pile
um It's not that, you know, like, in our world, we get defensive and are like, well, that's not the way I look at it. But to be able to push and make my, my, um my boundaries or borders making to be able to push them and make them bigger because of somebody, what somebody has taught me about their interpretation of God's scripture, um making my world bigger, my worldview bigger.

00:08:04.81
Nathan Pile
I always appreciate that. Even if it's hard to to wrestle with, there's ah there's a ah gratitude that goes with it, for sure.

00:08:13.49
Kevin Shock
Yep. And again, in the words of Bishop Leila Ortiz, let your judgment become curiosity.

00:08:19.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yep.

00:08:21.96
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:08:23.65
Nathan Pile
All right. John, the thirteenth chapter.

00:08:28.49
Nathan Pile
Before the festival of Passover, Jesus knew that his time had come to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them fully.

00:08:40.76
Nathan Pile
Jesus and his disciples were sharing the evening meal. The devil had already provoked Judas, Simon Iscariot's son, to betray Jesus. Jesus knew the Father had given everything into his hands and that he had come from God and was returning to God.

00:08:59.00
Nathan Pile
So he got up from the table, took off his robes, picking up a linen towel. He tied it around his waist. Then he poured water into a wash basin and began to wash the disciples' feet, drying them with the towel he was wearing.

00:09:13.66
Nathan Pile
When Jesus came to Simon Peter, Peter said to him, Lord, are you going to wash my feet? Jesus replied, you don't understand what I'm doing now, but you will understand later.

00:09:26.00
Nathan Pile
No, Peter said, you will never wash my feet. Jesus replied, unless I wash you, you won't have a place with me. Simon Peter said, Lord, not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.

00:09:43.01
Nathan Pile
Jesus responded, those who have been bathed need only to have their feet washed because they are completely clean. You disciples are clean, but not every one of you.

00:09:55.52
Nathan Pile
He knew who would betray him. That's why he said, not every one of you is clean. After he washed the disciples' feet, he put on his robes and returned to his place at the table.

00:10:08.11
Nathan Pile
He said to them, do you know what I've done for you? You call me teacher and Lord, and you speak correctly because I am. If your teacher and Lord, have washed your feet, you too must wash each other's feet.

00:10:27.34
Nathan Pile
I have given you an example. Just as I have done, you also must do. I assure you, servants aren't greater than their master, nor are those who are sent greater than the one who sent them.

00:10:42.36
Nathan Pile
Since you know these things, you will be happy if you do them. Now the human one has been glorified and God has been glorified in him.

00:10:54.15
Nathan Pile
If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify the human one in himself and will glorify him immediately. Little children, I am with you for a little while longer.

00:11:08.05
Nathan Pile
You will look for me, but just as I told the Jewish leaders, I also tell you now where I am going. You can't come. I give you a commandment.

00:11:19.85
Nathan Pile
Love each other. Just as I have loved you, so you also must love each other. This is how everyone will know that you are my disciples when you love each other.

00:11:34.67
Nathan Pile
Excuse me.

00:11:34.99
Kevin Shock
Bless you.

00:11:35.67
Nathan Pile
but I was trying to fight it off to the end, but I didn't make it. oh If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own.

00:11:48.39
Kevin Shock
You almost made it. Boy, you're only like three words from the end.

00:11:51.05
Nathan Pile
I was only three words and I could feel it coming.

00:11:51.15
Kevin Shock
Oh, boy.

00:11:52.97
Nathan Pile
I was like, can I get to the end? Nope.

00:11:56.70
Kevin Shock
ah

00:11:58.09
Nathan Pile
ah So ah Kevin, ah what word, phrase, or image struck you in the text today?

00:12:05.39
Kevin Shock
um it's hard for two reasons one there's so much in this text it's it's a complex text I I I struggled with whether to read it or not in this episode but I think I don't think that that we did this one last year at least um the other thing that was making it difficult for me to focus was that um this this is a this is one of those narratives that

00:12:11.79
Nathan Pile
I, Yeah. Nope.

00:12:31.87
Kevin Shock
as as a Christian leader, but certainly ah you don't even have to be a Christian leader. This is just something that you've heard so many times. It's a it's a central text to the faith. And so it's it's almost hard to pay attention or not to pay attention, but to hear to hear new things because your your brain is already trained to ah interpret the narrative as you have come to know it.

00:13:00.97
Kevin Shock
um

00:13:01.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:13:03.44
Kevin Shock
So I, but still there's something that sticks out to me, has stuck out to me before and for some reason is speaking to me today and it's it's um

00:13:15.79
Kevin Shock
it's Peter's, what's what's the word I even wanna say? I'm um struggling to think of the right word. um

00:13:28.04
Kevin Shock
Over reactivity, I guess. I oh like he goes from one extreme to another in a very short amount of time. And I don't know if it's because he wants to please Jesus.

00:13:41.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:13:41.92
Kevin Shock
I think a lot of it is because he wants to please Jesus. But he also I think he wants to please Jesus how he would like to be pleased or please Jesus on the terms that he assumes Jesus would like to be pleased.

00:13:44.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:13:54.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:13:55.12
Kevin Shock
uh instead of actually paying attention to what Jesus is saying uh or doing at that point so you know um I you know oh I I can never let you wash my feet well and I I can't remember how the CEB says it if if i don't wash your feet what does Jesus say

00:14:14.81
Nathan Pile
You won't have a place with me.

00:14:17.02
Kevin Shock
you won't have a place with me. Right. Right. You're cut off. You're out of the circle.

00:14:21.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:14:21.31
Kevin Shock
The, uh, I, uh, last month I rewatched the, uh, the, the Focker, uh, movie trilogy and, uh, the circle of trust you're out here out of the circle of trust.

00:14:22.68
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:14:32.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Trust. Yeah.

00:14:34.83
Kevin Shock
Um, uh, and, um,

00:14:35.71
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:14:39.74
Kevin Shock
And and then, okay all right. So if if I'm cut off, then don't just wash my feet, but wash every part of me.

00:14:46.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:47.77
Kevin Shock
um And and, you know, again, Jesus just I imagine Jesus shaking his head at this point. Like, come on, Peter, you're you're already you already bathed. This is a Yeah, this I'm I'm doing this for a particular reason, a particular purpose. Like, don't yeah don't get in the way of it. I think I honestly think that's what some of what Jesus has to be feeling here. it's Don't get in the way of it.

00:15:09.94
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:15:10.04
Kevin Shock
um and And I think that Peter gets in the way of it because he is making assumptions about what Jesus wants.

00:15:17.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:15:18.21
Kevin Shock
And making assumptions about how how he might please Jesus as one of his disciples. So that's, yeah.

00:15:28.15
Kevin Shock
that That's something i feel like I feel like people do that sometimes. Maybe not to the extreme that Peter does here, but certainly making assumptions about what will make someone else happy or doing something based on our own, what we would like to see rather than what is good for the other person we're doing it for or right for the situation.

00:15:40.43
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:15:49.67
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:15:51.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:15:51.67
Nathan Pile
Well, there's a lot of times that I use that image of a pendulum swinging back and forth. And so I appreciate you using that here is that the that oftentimes, you know, oftentimes when I talk about it, it's one generation act reacts one way.

00:15:56.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:16:05.11
Nathan Pile
And then the next generation after them says, well, I'm not going to do it the way my parents did it. And they swing the pendulum the whole way across to the other extreme and you're like well couldn't we just somewhere as human beings realize that we should just be in the middle someplace like like instead of instead of going too far the other way um can't we can't we do that differently and so um it does Peter uh as Peter does is ah

00:16:22.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right. Yeah.

00:16:39.42
Nathan Pile
a great reminder of what we do as, uh, as sinful human beings, trying to guess it right. Trying to look good in front of,

00:16:51.96
Nathan Pile
um

00:16:55.35
Nathan Pile
the son of God and, and really the rest of the disciples, you know, like that's, that's also, uh, a part of this here, um, of,

00:16:56.86
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:17:07.26
Nathan Pile
you know, trying to get it right, trying to guess what the the next pieces are. So yeah, I appreciate that, that piece of, um, pendulum swinging back and forth and what that means for us and, um, and how we do that. So as human beings, it's, it is our motivations.

00:17:29.72
Nathan Pile
Um, we wish they were we you know i wish my motivations would lead me to do something different than what peter does here but it's a reading it as perfect example of i do the same stuff i my own selfish wants and desires has me go swinging back and forth trying to find a place to um to land and trying to get to guess what's right.

00:18:00.69
Nathan Pile
Um, or what the, what would give me the best, um, the best outcome, um, and whatever I'm trying to rate. So, so yeah, I appreciate that.

00:18:14.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah. What about you? What word phrase or image?

00:18:17.00
Nathan Pile
Um, again with you, there was, there was a lot here. Um, the place where I landed in the end was, um the disciples are now at the same place that the Jewish leaders are, which is you can't come with me.

00:18:34.77
Nathan Pile
um

00:18:35.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

00:18:37.05
Nathan Pile
And so, of course, when I read it, my first thing was to go back and say, okay, what did he say? When was the last time he spoke to the Jewish leaders? And when did he tell them they couldn't go along?

00:18:48.25
Nathan Pile
um You know, wanting to connect it to whatever that point in John was here. Yeah. But there's ah there's a part of this of what what about this journey is Jesus's only to continue. That is's that the threat that the that we, even his disciples, can't go along. um The ones that have have been the closest to him that have wanted to...

00:19:17.31
Nathan Pile
two um

00:19:22.18
Nathan Pile
to pro use you know to to have that uh honor and title of being Jesus's students um you know the rabbi is ah is leading the way and so we have chosen to follow in the rabbi's way

00:19:44.06
Nathan Pile
there' The next steps aren't ours. we We don't get to go along in the same way. And so the confusion that would bring up for um those disciples that were with him in the moment, but also what it means for

00:20:04.75
Nathan Pile
for me to today of like, there are there are things that are God's to do that are not Nathan's to do.

00:20:15.87
Nathan Pile
and and And I need to be reminded of that. One of the little post-it notes that I have posted on my wall right behind um the microphone here says, um what's it say exactly? It says, God-sized project.

00:20:29.76
Nathan Pile
um but It cannot be all up to me. if it would be, it would be a Nathan-sized project. um So there are projects that are not Nathan's. They are God's projects.

00:20:42.08
Nathan Pile
um And they those are not Nathan projects. um And so there's something that's going to happen in these coming days that is a God-sized problem that God is going to complete and accomplish that's not the disciples.

00:20:57.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:20:59.77
Nathan Pile
so

00:21:00.31
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep. Yeah, I know I've heard you say that before.

00:21:04.53
Nathan Pile
No, no.

00:21:05.36
Kevin Shock
And yeah, I think I think it's an important, well, whether it does or not, I think it's an important, it's an important perspective to maintain in in a lot of situations, but certainly in, yeah, in situations where it's obvious that God is a part of what's going on.

00:21:07.23
Nathan Pile
Doesn't make me any better at it.

00:21:10.86
Nathan Pile
but But I got the sign there. I got the sign there.

00:21:17.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:21:25.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's good to maintain that.

00:21:26.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:21:28.77
Kevin Shock
perspective.

00:21:32.00
Nathan Pile
So.

00:21:33.24
Kevin Shock
and Okay, um look at it a second time.

00:21:34.05
Nathan Pile
All right.

00:21:36.48
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:21:37.53
Kevin Shock
From John 13, before the festival of Passover, Jesus knew that his time had come to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them fully.

00:21:49.51
Kevin Shock
Jesus and his disciples were sharing the evening meal. The devil had already provoked Judas, Simon Iscariot's son, to betray Jesus. Jesus knew the Father had given everything into his hands and that he had come from God and was returning to God.

00:22:06.03
Kevin Shock
So he got up from the table and took off his robes. Picking up a linen towel, he tied it around his waist. Then he poured water into a wash basin and began to wash the disciples' feet, drying them with the towel he was wearing.

00:22:19.56
Kevin Shock
When Jesus came to Simon Peter, Peter said to him, Lord, are you going to wash my feet? Jesus replied, You don't understand what I'm doing now, but you will understand later. No, Peter said, You will never wash my feet.

00:22:32.59
Kevin Shock
Jesus replied, Unless I wash you, you won't have a place with me. Simon Peter said, Lord, not only my feet, but also my hands and my head. Jesus responded, Those who have bathed need only to have their feet washed because they are completely clean.

00:22:48.15
Kevin Shock
You disciples are clean, but not every one of you. He knew who would betray him. That's why he said, not every one of you is clean. After he washed the disciples' feet, he put on his robes and returned to his place at the table.

00:23:01.14
Kevin Shock
He said to them, do you know what I've done for you? You call me teacher and Lord, and you speak correctly because I am. If I, your Lord and teacher, have washed your feet, you too must wash each other's feet.

00:23:12.77
Kevin Shock
I have given you an example. Just as I have done, you also must do. i assure you, servants aren't greater than their master. nor are those who are sent greater than the one who sent them.

00:23:25.08
Kevin Shock
Since you know these things, you will be happy if you do them. Now the human one has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him. If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify the human one in himself, and will glorify him immediately.

00:23:40.66
Kevin Shock
Little children, I'm with you for a little while longer. You will look for me, but just as I told the Jewish leaders, I also tell you now, where I'm going you can't come. Nathan, what is God calling this text?

00:23:53.22
Kevin Shock
just as I have loved you so you also must love each other this is how everyone will know that you are my disciples when you love each other. Nathan, toward what is god calling you in this text

00:24:07.15
Nathan Pile
um I think well it's not that I think I I know exactly what I'm going to talk about um

00:24:20.82
Nathan Pile
I feel called to to dirty jobs not nice things um um

00:24:36.29
Nathan Pile
and and and And maybe it's not just dirty jobs. It's it about being, putting more emphasis on the other than on myself.

00:24:48.38
Nathan Pile
And one of the one of the things that um Hannah and I have been working with here at camp is to try and figure out how to articulate um about different parts of character.

00:25:00.05
Nathan Pile
We're looking at a grant that we're trying to write to help us um get better at developing character within our campers. And one of the challenges is that this is a um

00:25:14.06
Nathan Pile
it's it's for any kind of camp, right? And so it could be for a Christian camp or it could be for a Jewish camp. It could be for a for-profit camp that doesn't have anything to do with faith um whatsoever.

00:25:27.90
Nathan Pile
And so when you talk about character, they're not talking in necessarily about the same language that we use at camp all of the time. um And so one of the words that I've been wrestling with is that word humble.

00:25:39.26
Nathan Pile
And so it's a characteristic to be to live in humility, right? Or it's a character strength, a character trait to be humble. But when we talk about in the church, I've been trying to figure out, well, what's a good, what would be a good character trait that connects to serving are the our neighbor, loving our neighbor?

00:26:01.99
Nathan Pile
um Being a servant um and and, you know, kneeling before somebody. Like, to to kneel before someone and wash their feet is you're you're being vulnerable and the other person is being vulnerable.

00:26:17.34
Nathan Pile
um at at least ah very much so in our society. Whereas in Jesus's society, this was a way of of welcome and hospitality into the to the home or to the space.

00:26:28.33
Nathan Pile
um Washing the dust off of your feet. ah We now will wear socks and shoes and and so we're not collecting dust as we walk. But this is ah like this is a very vulnerable thing to let somebody else touch our feet.

00:26:43.93
Nathan Pile
And for us to be the one touching somebody else's feet is a very vulnerable thing. And so I'm trying to figure out what those care, what characteristics, make up serving the other.

00:26:56.08
Nathan Pile
And humility is one of the words. um and And of course, when we teach about serving the other at camp, we never use the word being humble. We don't talk about humility. It's not a like that, at least not in connection with that idea of service.

00:27:10.38
Nathan Pile
And so that's been an interesting piece for me because it's not the only character trait either that, that you know, is around this idea of service. um But it is one that I've kind of wrestled with. of Like, how do we how do I humble myself to serve the other?

00:27:27.16
Nathan Pile
um And i and there is there is a part of of humility, though, that is baked into that. Being willing to not expect others. You know, in this story, Jesus, isn't it as the teacher, he's not saying, Peter, go wash everybody's feet.

00:27:49.72
Nathan Pile
um but is willing to to be the one who serves.

00:27:56.49
Nathan Pile
And so how do I, as a disciple of Christ, i do that? and and And going back to our mara- part of our marathon conversation today, Kevin, of and how do I make sure that I have enough energy to keep doing that?

00:28:13.66
Nathan Pile
um And not just become something that people walk on top of. Like that part of service for me is is tough.

00:28:22.18
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:28:23.19
Nathan Pile
Like I've, you know, I have a tendency to ignore what I'm feeling and just keep pushing through to accomplish whatever that thing is.

00:28:39.90
Nathan Pile
But how do I how do I be a servant but not be a doormat? I think is ah is a place where I'm wrestling right now in my own personal life that of that piece. And so hearing this passage, I don't think Jesus is, Jesus is saying, be a servant of others.

00:29:01.12
Nathan Pile
But what I also have to remind myself is Jesus isn't saying, be a doormat. Just let everybody walk all over you. And not that there's a lot of people doing that in my life. I'm just trying to figure out that what does that mean?

00:29:13.78
Nathan Pile
What does it mean to serve and yet not kill myself in the process of serving?

00:29:22.18
Nathan Pile
Because God has also created for me for life. And so figuring that out in myself, um this this passage, as you read it this time, brought all of that up for me.

00:29:34.14
Nathan Pile
Like, how do how do I articulate and and understand this idea of serving the other whether it's, uh, it's empathy and humility, which would be character traits that I would, would kind of connect to it.

00:29:49.43
Nathan Pile
Um, and yet as a Christian, we talk about love also, and that, that's more, that's more familiar to us, loving our neighbor so much so that we're willing to be a servant for them.

00:30:02.94
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:30:05.34
Nathan Pile
all of that has been rattling around in my head for the last couple of weeks of of of how do I articulate this as we try to to figure out how we wanna expand our camp programming, improve our camp programming, but also maybe seek some um grant funding to help us accomplish that.

00:30:22.93
Nathan Pile
um But being able to name it and claim it as the true values of who we are at Sequanota. um And for us, that language would be around service to others.

00:30:33.52
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:30:33.53
Nathan Pile
um But how do we help, as we're teaching it, how do we help teach it in a way that it's a healthy way to the next generation? So that they do honor the way of the rabbi in that we serve one another, but that we don't do it to the place of burnout or our own our own health,

00:31:02.12
Nathan Pile
you know, falls apart. So, so that, that's kind of, um and you reading that passage brought all of that up in my head here today.

00:31:04.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:31:11.07
Nathan Pile
So,

00:31:14.76
Nathan Pile
yeah, so, but I do, I still feel called to it. It's just figuring out how do we, how do I do that in healthy ways? How do I how do I be the servant mirroring our master um and, and recognizing Jesus gave it all on a cross

00:31:22.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:31:33.93
Nathan Pile
but our relationship,

00:31:37.91
Nathan Pile
yeah do we really, yeah do we need to go and die on a cross as well? Because it's Christ has already done that work. We can't we can't accomplish what that work was.

00:31:48.32
Kevin Shock
Right. That's not, uh, that's a God sized project, Nathan.

00:31:52.07
Nathan Pile
It is, it is, yeah, yeah.

00:31:53.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Um, yeah. Something that your, your reflections made me think about is that, um, Jesus has the, the, the act of servanthood. There's one thing about Jesus that he has easier than the rest of us.

00:32:10.55
Kevin Shock
And that is he's, he knows what's best for others.

00:32:13.60
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:14.76
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:32:15.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:32:16.74
Kevin Shock
And I think if we knew what was best for others, then it would be easier for us to serve. um But I think what we do instead is that we rely on others to let us know what is best for them, or we make assumptions about what's best for them.

00:32:34.79
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:32:36.23
Kevin Shock
Neither of those, making assumptions I don't think is a healthy thing. um but But I think it's important for understand to have conversation with others, um, um, about what they actually need and how we can, how we can help meet those needs.

00:32:57.33
Kevin Shock
Uh, I also then think that sometimes people will not be completely honest with us or with themselves about what it is that they actually need, like what would actually be helpful.

00:33:10.95
Nathan Pile
Mmmm.

00:33:11.30
Kevin Shock
Uh, And so that does sometimes I think lead to the feeling of we're seeking to serve, but we ended up feeling like we're being taken advantage of.

00:33:22.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:33:23.28
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah. The other phenomenon in our society is this kind of this notion of, um, you said that you don't think of humility as necessarily being a You haven't in the past articulated that as being a character trait of servanthood.

00:33:43.45
Kevin Shock
but um But I think that we've seen a lot of what service without humility looks like in our society because people, um I was having this discussion with somebody, maybe it was you at some point, um that young people in our society really are taught that serving service is important.

00:34:06.22
Kevin Shock
but I don't think they're ever given the why of it.

00:34:09.03
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:34:09.96
Kevin Shock
ah You know, lot there are there are high schools. Is this true for Rachel for graduation? Will she have to fulfill so many hours of community service before she graduates? Do you know if that's the case?

00:34:20.51
Nathan Pile
Um, no, that is not the case for for her.

00:34:23.90
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right. But it is the case in some, at least there was a, there was a,

00:34:26.41
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. We sign, we sign all kinds of paperwork here for people that volunteer, kids that volunteer for ed camp and then are getting graduation credit.

00:34:37.11
Kevin Shock
Okay. Okay. Yeah. But that doesn't, all that teaches them is that service is a way toward earning something that you want for yourself,

00:34:47.73
Nathan Pile
ah Yeah. Yeah.

00:34:48.17
Kevin Shock
which is not helpful.

00:34:49.02
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:34:51.69
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:34:52.55
Kevin Shock
I mean, it might, it might, you know, if you're going by the thing of you, you, you act into a way of thinking, then, then maybe it could be helpful.

00:35:02.31
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:35:02.52
Kevin Shock
that by the act of service, people will see the importance of it. But I don't know that, I don't know that human beings who don't have a fully formed brain at that point can necessarily make that translation.

00:35:16.49
Kevin Shock
um

00:35:16.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:35:19.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so ah we we see a lot of service without humility ah or service that is, that on the surface looks like we're serving others, but we're actually serving ourselves.

00:35:32.32
Nathan Pile
right Yeah, I had several service trips that I took as a um mostly college age person and after that were called service trips.

00:35:32.83
Kevin Shock
ah

00:35:46.33
Nathan Pile
But, you know, after four days of service, then I spent three days on a tropical island.

00:35:53.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, well yeah. Yeah.

00:35:55.81
Nathan Pile
You know, so there's, there's, and, and, and, you know, it was, it was good that at the time somebody helped me to start to ask questions of, are we just coming and doing what we want to do while we're in this space and place for these individuals?

00:35:57.46
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:36:13.80
Nathan Pile
Or is it what they really need? And unfortunately the answer was we came with what our, what we thought was the ways to fix problems in those settings and,

00:36:17.03
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:36:25.07
Kevin Shock
Yes, right.

00:36:25.29
Nathan Pile
and then tacked on a couple of days of vacation after it.

00:36:26.24
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

00:36:28.40
Nathan Pile
um and And didn't really spend time finding out what is it that these communities need and then

00:36:28.41
Kevin Shock
Yep, that's right. That's right.

00:36:37.25
Nathan Pile
doing the work of true service to help me help them meet those needs as opposed to us doing what we wanted to do while we were there and then have a fun trip on the other side of it.

00:36:44.20
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:36:51.67
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

00:36:51.73
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

00:36:53.79
Nathan Pile
So it became, not only did the cert was the service not, um like the service was good. Like it's not that we didn't do good service work. It was just like, it wasn't what was needed to this community.

00:37:07.63
Nathan Pile
Or could we have listened more closely and more deeply and, and served, served them in better ways?

00:37:15.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:17.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:37:18.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um

00:37:19.80
Nathan Pile
What about you, my friend? What, uh, toward what are you called to in this passage?

00:37:20.84
Kevin Shock
yeah ah

00:37:23.75
Kevin Shock
It's, I mean, it's not too different from what you said. I think that the thing that I was thinking about hearing it again a second time um is that, you know, Peter, oh Peter doesn't want to wash his feet or have his feet washed, but that, but ah that is a needful thing in that society.

00:37:43.39
Kevin Shock
And I think about how, when we, reenact that in many congregations will reenact this, the foot washing during a Maundy Thursday service.

00:37:54.96
Kevin Shock
um But there will also be a lot of people in those congregations who do not participate in it. And, and I've, I've thought through a lot, what good does that do for us?

00:38:07.29
Kevin Shock
um Because as you say, we live in a society where we wear socks and shoes. So the washing of feet does not really have a practical purpose.

00:38:16.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Hmm.

00:38:17.29
Kevin Shock
it it is ah it's an example of service but it doesn't have a practical purpose so I guess i'm what I'm called toward is discerning what is an actual pr useful practical way of service and how we ritualize that um not just how we ritualize it but also maybe that's something I have to think about in my own life too how I serve others and uh

00:38:49.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah, finding finding ah finding practical ways that make it even a small difference. I mean, when you think about it, foot washing is, I mean, we the the the thing that happens when we ritualize foot washing is that we some people do something that doesn't have a practical purpose and other people, because they're made to be uncomfortable, don't do it at all.

00:39:16.17
Kevin Shock
And so we just let a lot of people off the hook.

00:39:16.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:39:19.86
Kevin Shock
for something that Jesus says, as I do this to you, so you should do it to others.

00:39:22.57
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:39:26.06
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:27.08
Kevin Shock
And, and so I think that if, if we're going to let people off the hook, then we always have, we also have to lead them into, in, into a process of figuring out, okay, what's a way that you don't get let off the hook.

00:39:40.85
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:39:41.69
Kevin Shock
And it doesn't have to, you know, it doesn't have to be a big thing. I don't think that foot washing is that big of a thing, actually. um But what Jesus does here, at least in my interpretation, is he gives a a low level example of service that will be magnified infinitely by the high level act of service that he is going that in hours he will have completed.

00:40:11.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:13.07
Kevin Shock
I mean, the right. he he he he has, ah what he's to use your terminology, Nathan, he's giving the disciples a human-sized project that is a foretaste of the God-sized project that he is about to complete.

00:40:25.17
Nathan Pile
God's project.

00:40:27.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

00:40:27.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:28.18
Kevin Shock
Because his his service, um no one, no one in Christian history says, well, that Jesus, he sure was a good foot washer.

00:40:28.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:38.17
Kevin Shock
ah No, he's the he's the crucified one.

00:40:42.76
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:40:44.10
Kevin Shock
That's what we uphold, right? he He gave his very life so that all humankind can have life.

00:40:45.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:51.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:52.91
Kevin Shock
And um yeah, that's the we we can't we can't follow in that we can't follow in that completely, not in the way that he did.

00:41:02.59
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:41:02.80
Kevin Shock
But we can find something like foot washing that will serve our one another and neighbors in human small ways that might lead to a ah big difference being made ah as to how we live with one another.

00:41:19.52
Nathan Pile
No.

00:41:20.61
Kevin Shock
So, yeah, that's I'm, I'm, I'm called toward figuring out what is the what what is my what is the modern equivalent or what is my equivalent of foot washing?

00:41:21.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:41:29.59
Nathan Pile
yeah Well, and I appreciate that because it has my head even thinking and spinning about, well, what is that thing? um What is that thing that

00:41:37.46
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:41:39.86
Nathan Pile
um

00:41:42.54
Nathan Pile
factors in humility?

00:41:45.45
Nathan Pile
Humility? Humility?

00:41:48.60
Kevin Shock
Mhm?

00:41:49.27
Nathan Pile
and um calls me to look at my neighbor and see something that they need done and do it for them um in in in 2025 um and um and if you're um a preacher I'm sorry I don't have that answer for you um

00:42:00.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.

00:42:12.61
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:42:13.16
Nathan Pile
Like if you're listening today and it would be great if Kevin and Nathan could just tell us what that is and we could, you know, bring that in and as a part of our ah Maundy Thursday service.

00:42:15.10
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:42:22.05
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I wish I could, but I haven't.

00:42:24.28
Kevin Shock
I can't.

00:42:24.65
Nathan Pile
um ah you Kevin just brought it into my head and so I'm going to have to think about it.

00:42:25.42
Kevin Shock
No.

00:42:29.79
Nathan Pile
and And I may not have a perfect idea even coming out of that, um of of what that looks like.

00:42:30.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well.

00:42:35.97
Nathan Pile
But humility, that that humbling is a key part of it.

00:42:42.83
Kevin Shock
And I will say, actually, this just came to mind hearing you talk. um foot washing might be ah a practical thing of service in certain times in certain places I just just thinking through this I just for um before I got my hip replacement for months it was impossible for me to wash my feet I couldn't, I couldn't bend down far enough now I mean I found like

00:43:07.77
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:43:13.16
Kevin Shock
I found tools and aids and ways to do it that were like not satisfactory in my mind, but you know, but we're at least acceptable that I was having some form of hygiene for my feet.

00:43:26.07
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:43:26.26
Kevin Shock
But, but honestly, like a big thing, um I'm not I'm not like I'm not ah downplaying Lisa in any way here, but like she's she's like grossed out by feet and toes. And so like one thing that I really couldn't do was I couldn't I couldn't trim my toenails, not on my not on my one foot.

00:43:48.81
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:43:49.11
Kevin Shock
And so I actually went I went into surgery with two of my toes on my left foot, like way longer than I wanted them to be.

00:43:59.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:59.85
Kevin Shock
And not just for not just for appearance purposes, like it was not comfortable to have them that way.

00:44:04.41
Nathan Pile
sort of more you know yeah

00:44:05.89
Kevin Shock
um And so... and so um Like that is an example I, you know, of like that, could that could foot washing couldn't be a practical thing for someone who has mobility issues for some, but, but that's not something that you do in, in front of the whole church.

00:44:16.58
Nathan Pile
Sure. Absolutely. Yeah.

00:44:23.06
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:44:24.21
Kevin Shock
ah

00:44:24.34
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:44:24.90
Kevin Shock
Um, uh, and yeah. And, and I will say, since I gave an example of something of Lisa was not willing to do, um, you know after surgery I had to wear compression socks and get them changed every day and she was really great about putting those difficult to put on socks on me every day for a couple of weeks at least so yeah but but there could be practical things like I don't know if there's I don't know if there's one thing

00:44:44.42
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:44:47.66
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:55.58
Kevin Shock
that is applicable to every human that we could just say, okay, this is something we can do in the same way.

00:45:00.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:45:03.69
Kevin Shock
Now, one year at my congregation, we, we did have, we had dinner church on Maundy Thursday. Well, we had that more than one year, but one year we tried hand-washing, which is a practical thing that people want to do before they, ah need that people have before they eat.

00:45:14.30
Nathan Pile
No. Mm.

00:45:19.24
Nathan Pile
Eat. Sure.

00:45:21.59
Kevin Shock
And, uh, and we did that and it it went fine. And people were somehow more willing to do hand-washing than they were to do foot-washing, which I think I understand why. Um, but the other thing is that hand-washing for all of the people there who were there, uh, they, they could have washed their own hands pretty easily.

00:45:30.22
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:45:39.98
Kevin Shock
Like it wasn't something as though someone was taking something on that was difficult for them to do.

00:45:40.33
Nathan Pile
sure Right. All right.

00:45:46.59
Kevin Shock
um Yeah.

00:45:49.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:45:49.79
Kevin Shock
I think I think we do see it lived out in certain ways in the church and outside of the church. But um but as far as something that is like that we can ritualize that is common to everybody, I think that's hard to figure out.

00:46:03.89
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:46:04.18
Kevin Shock
And maybe maybe Jesus did not intend to give us something that was common to everybody, but something that um he could do for these 12 that he was breaking bread with that night.

00:46:18.01
Nathan Pile
sure Well, and there's a way of honoring them that is in this too.

00:46:19.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:46:22.61
Kevin Shock
Yeah, absolutely.

00:46:23.23
Nathan Pile
So it's not just, yeah, yes.

00:46:23.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:24.71
Nathan Pile
They could have washed their own feet having come from wherever.

00:46:28.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

00:46:30.37
Nathan Pile
We also know that they probably because of Jesus's conversation, conversation with Peter that they bathed probably before they came to the Passover dinner. Um,

00:46:42.18
Nathan Pile
for multiple reasons because it was a it was a feast celebration kind of a thing. And so some river, someplace, they probably dunked themselves in it, even if it was muddy water.

00:46:55.14
Nathan Pile
Um, because again, they weren't taking showers. Like it wasn't like their homes had that kind of ability to it.

00:47:03.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right. Right.

00:47:04.28
Nathan Pile
So, ah so it makes some sense that they would have prepared themselves to come to this meal. Could they have washed their own feet? Sure. But there's a piece that this idea that the teacher honors,

00:47:17.09
Nathan Pile
the students um by washing the feet, whereas a host might will honor you as a guest by having your feet washed. Now, maybe probably not by them, but by one of their servants kind of a thing.

00:47:29.47
Nathan Pile
of That would have been a common piece.

00:47:29.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure.

00:47:31.80
Nathan Pile
So the there's a couple of, ah you know, that piece of honor we hadn't really named, but I want to make sure that there's something about that as well in the midst of this humility and the and the service piece.

00:47:43.51
Nathan Pile
There's part of honoring honoring the other um

00:47:48.32
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:47:49.65
Nathan Pile
um

00:47:50.10
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:47:51.67
Nathan Pile
in that service as well. And so again, you can see that in hand-washing, absolutely. There's still an intimacy to that. um

00:48:01.77
Nathan Pile
and And there would be a way of kind of honoring the other person in hand-washing. um Like to me, there would be an intention of that of this as well. Like if you were like holding the sponge the cloth with like your fingertips and just kind of, you

00:48:23.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure.

00:48:24.24
Nathan Pile
touching the foot lightly, like the intention isn't there.

00:48:24.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:48:26.98
Nathan Pile
Like people are going to be like, that's a nice foot wash. um You know, same would be true of a hand wash, you know, kind of but so there's a, like, so there's a lot that gets wrapped into this, which it makes it even harder to figure out what it might be that we could do that would have those pieces um to it.

00:48:40.60
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:48:47.50
Nathan Pile
But I think it it's a good, it's a good um exercise to exercise ourselves in thinking what would cause us to feel all of these things in that moment.

00:48:59.25
Nathan Pile
um Again, something that is a human size project as opposed to a God size project. um

00:49:08.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:49:09.54
Nathan Pile
um But helping us, helping us live into an experience what it means to be a servant of another. um, it changes us if we're truly the servant, if we're, if we're truly doing servant work, it's hard not to recognize, you know, recognize a change in our own heart, in our own mind.

00:49:23.11
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:49:40.55
Nathan Pile
um And I think that's, you know that's a part of of what this is. When we do service work, when we know the person that is doing that we're doing it for couldn't do it for themselves, like,

00:49:56.67
Nathan Pile
um

00:49:59.58
Nathan Pile
but change it causes it causes a change in us. And I think that's what a part of this um feast on this first of the three days is designed to kind of help us think about what does that look like for us how do we how do we find how do we how do we experience what Jesus is is teaching us so that we can take that forward in our life

00:50:29.35
Kevin Shock
yeah well um I mean your your reflections also make me think maybe it's a moot point to try to ritualize it we have to maybe we have to find a way instead to encourage people to think about the ways that they can be

00:50:38.75
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah.

00:50:44.92
Kevin Shock
ah in in helpful

00:50:50.29
Kevin Shock
humanizing service to one another in their life as people of faith.

00:50:56.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:50:57.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:50:57.96
Nathan Pile
Yeah. and and And getting us to think of it just as you and I are sitting here having this conversation.

00:50:58.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:51:03.36
Nathan Pile
um how do we How do we help people have the same conversation in our congregational spaces?

00:51:12.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

00:51:13.06
Nathan Pile
um That too would be just as effective. Having intentional conversation about how do i how do i make a sacrifice of me to honor and help you?

00:51:27.48
Kevin Shock
Mhm

00:51:28.13
Nathan Pile
How do I how do I make the other person just as human as I am human? You know, we talked about the, you talked about dehumanizing um a little bit, like ah part of this is is helping us to practice that discipline of valuing the other as much as we value ourselves.

00:51:53.13
Kevin Shock
All right, Nathan, I'm looking at the time.

00:51:54.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:51:54.61
Kevin Shock
We better read this a third time.

00:51:55.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. We better do a third time. Here we go. Before the festival of Passover, Jesus knew that his time had come to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them fully.

00:52:09.65
Nathan Pile
Jesus and his disciples were sharing the evening meal. The devil had already provoked Judas, Simon Iscariot's son, to protr- betray Jesus. Jesus knew the Father had given everything into his hands and that he had come from God and was returning to God.

00:52:24.90
Nathan Pile
So he got up from the table and took off his robes, picking up a linen towel. He tied it around his waist. Then he poured water into a wash basin and began to wash the disciples' feet, drying them with the towel he was wearing.

00:52:40.25
Nathan Pile
When Jesus came to Simon Peter, Peter said to him, Lord, are you going to wash my feet? Jesus replied, you don't understand what I'm doing now, but you will understand later.

00:52:52.21
Nathan Pile
No, Peter said, you will never wash my feet. Jesus replied, unless I wash you, you won't have a place with me. Simon Peter said, Lord, not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.

00:53:06.05
Nathan Pile
Jesus responded, those who have bathed need water. only to have their feet washed because they are completely clean. You disciples are clean, but not every one of you.

00:53:18.38
Nathan Pile
He knew who would betray him. That's why he said, not every one of you is clean. After he washed the disciples' feet, he put on his robes and returned to his place at the table.

00:53:28.99
Nathan Pile
He said to them, do you know what I've done for you? You call me teacher and Lord, and you speak correctly because I am. If I, your teacher and Lord, have washed your feet, you too must wash each other's feet.

00:53:44.71
Nathan Pile
I have given you an example. Just as I have done, you also must do. I assure you, servants aren't greater than their master, nor are those who are sent greater than the one who sent them.

00:53:58.74
Nathan Pile
Since you know these things, you will be happy if you do them. Now the Holy One, that the now the human one, has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him.

00:54:12.45
Nathan Pile
If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify the human one in himself, and will glorify him immediately. Little children, I'm with you for a little while longer.

00:54:25.21
Nathan Pile
You will look for me, but just as I told the Jewish leaders, I also tell you now, where I'm going, you can't come. I give you a new commandment, love each other.

00:54:36.33
Nathan Pile
Just as I have loved you you, so you also must love each other. This is how every everyone will know that you are my disciples when you love each other.

00:54:52.46
Nathan Pile
Kevin, what makes it difficult for you to follow one simple commandment?

00:54:58.77
Kevin Shock
Oh man.

00:55:01.72
Kevin Shock
the The complexity of human beings.

00:55:04.72
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:55:05.14
Kevin Shock
If we all just felt the same way about things and had the same experiences, it would be so much easier. um

00:55:14.38
Kevin Shock
ah really, um and I think, you know, we were talking a lot earlier today, Nathan, I think the the um emotional energy that sometimes it takes to love someone else.

00:55:28.51
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:55:29.14
Kevin Shock
ah I prayed a prayer in a situation yesterday praying for unity. and um And I just, I would try to be as honest as I could in that prayer and said, ah unity is hard when we're in the messiness of human relationship.

00:55:49.36
Nathan Pile
Mmm. Yeah.

00:55:49.95
Kevin Shock
And I think the same is true for love.

00:55:50.90
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:55:52.75
Kevin Shock
Love is hard in the messiness of human relationship.

00:55:56.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:55:57.14
Kevin Shock
And, and I think, um, self-preservation comes into play. And I think rightly so. I think that, I don't think it does us any good to love our way into an unsafe place.

00:56:12.34
Kevin Shock
Um, but as you and I have talked about on per, I think on this podcast before, um I do think like, I, I think I should be able to love myself into an uncomfortable place.

00:56:27.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:56:30.50
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:56:33.23
Kevin Shock
Complexity, self-preservation.

00:56:37.02
Kevin Shock
Jesus lets me off the hook. And I think that makes it hard, too.

00:56:43.33
Kevin Shock
I think that loving each other is a life and death kind of thing. um But we also go into it knowing that we're forgiven when we fail. And so the the consequences of being life and death don't feel quite the same.

00:56:58.98
Kevin Shock
But again, maybe I'm looking at that from a self-preservation standpoint. if if If not loving someone means having broken relationship with them, maybe it is a life and death situation.

00:57:12.41
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:57:13.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah. What about you? What makes it so difficult for you but to do one simple commandment?

00:57:18.30
Nathan Pile
well at you yeah you you've yeah this you know having read the the piece that we've read this this commandment to love um

00:57:32.09
Nathan Pile
you you've hit the nail on the head in that, it that it's, it's hard that my my feelings get in the way of of loving others. And, and it's because sometimes my feelings get hurt because what I may be hearing somebody say is, is absolutely true for them, but I don't like their response to me.

00:58:00.01
Nathan Pile
And so then how do I, love them and then sometimes their response is telling me the truth like something that I did hurt them and and I don't I don't ever want to hurt like intentionally i'm not trying to hurt other people but I I hurt I heard of and like I know that I've lived long enough that I hurt other people and and I've not done it in in intentional ways, but that doesn't mean that it's okay.

00:58:21.25
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:58:25.30
Nathan Pile
I, you know, I have to apologize. You have to seek reconciliation with those individuals. Um,

00:58:35.43
Nathan Pile
and, and so that, that push for relationship and connection, um,

00:58:44.57
Nathan Pile
means again that I have to to deal with some of the things that whatever it is that's going on for me in that moment, I have to deal with those pieces and then continue to try to seek to have, if I'm going to love, if I'm going to, um you know, we talk about God's grace and God's grace is love and forgiveness. Forgiveness at some point needs to be a part of it if I'm going to have a relationship with somebody else.

00:59:12.18
Nathan Pile
um

00:59:12.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:59:13.71
Nathan Pile
because I'm going to hurt them, they're going to hurt me. Um,

00:59:18.86
Nathan Pile
because my, my selfish wants will, will at some point take over and I will not be worried about them instead worried about myself and self-preservation.

00:59:33.09
Nathan Pile
And when I calm myself down, when I get, a chance to process my own emotions, then I might see, okay, I need to go back and apologize because I want, what's more important to me is this relationship than it is the foolish things that I said in the moment when I was trying to preserve myself.

00:59:51.24
Nathan Pile
um And so because we're different, because we don't have the same um lenses for the world, that that that diversity makes us richer if we can figure out how to live differently in the midst of that diversity. um were

01:00:15.17
Nathan Pile
We cherish having a um having different people in the world and and and appreciate that peace, but having all of that means that I, that it can't be my way.

01:00:31.07
Nathan Pile
And that's just a hard thing to to live out and and to keep practicing. It's a discipline. oh And as today, the idea of...

01:00:43.98
Nathan Pile
christians today the idea oh oh of practicing, like there's certain things that we wanna practice, but to be honest, none of us are really good at practicing it, like anything. like that you it's ah To be the best in in your sport, takes it takes a great amount of discipline to be able to keep practicing and practicing diligently.

01:01:09.59
Nathan Pile
And so there's only a few, you know there's a small percentage that become the best in their sport. um But that means that they've had to sacrifice lots of other pieces in their life to become the best basketball player or whatever your sport is.

01:01:26.51
Nathan Pile
Most of the rest of us, us average human beings, um that idea of of of having that kind of discipline to love our neighbor boy, we, we, it it would take a, it takes a significant amount of practice to be able to do that, to be, to be even just average at it.

01:01:46.20
Nathan Pile
And, and most of the time we're not, we don't want to put that kind of time in, um, because of, because it does take work to, to love each other.

01:01:57.41
Nathan Pile
And so, you know,

01:02:03.07
Nathan Pile
that that piece of what makes it so difficult is is that i have to practice it I have to know that it's a discipline and and even days I don't want to do it I I have to try and practice it um

01:02:20.16
Nathan Pile
and so that's what makes it so difficult because it's not a it's just not it Because we're diverse and we're different and and have different ways of looking at the world,

01:02:33.41
Nathan Pile
um we have to we have to make the time, you have to put the time in to get better at it. and um there are parts about my life I can look back and say, Oh, I've gotten better about this aspect of loving my neighbor. But if I look closely at myself, there's lots of other ways that I'm still not good at about loving my neighbor.

01:02:56.34
Nathan Pile
And so that means I have to keep practicing, practicing that piece.

01:02:56.65
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

01:03:02.34
Nathan Pile
um When it becomes a practice or a discipline, um it it means that I have to keep keep looking at it, keep analyzing how it's, do how I'm doing with it. And, and, um and, and when it comes to that, when it comes to that kind of rigor, that's what makes it ah ah hard to do as a command.

01:03:24.71
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

01:03:24.95
Nathan Pile
Because in the end, when something is rigorous, eventually I get to the place for me personally, I get to the place of like, boy, this is really hard. Can I can I just take a break?

01:03:36.44
Nathan Pile
and And I realized that taking the break is much easier and and I like to do that.

01:03:37.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah, Yeah.

01:03:40.68
Nathan Pile
And then I don't keep after it until a word of scripture or conversation with a friend reminds me that I have to keep doing this.

01:03:53.20
Nathan Pile
I have to keep practicing it. So,

01:03:58.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And we each might have our own way of doing that. and We don't all have to love in the same way.

01:04:01.28
Nathan Pile
absolutely.

01:04:03.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:04:03.76
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. Yeah.

01:04:04.58
Kevin Shock
Um, but you're right. It takes, it takes work. It takes a lot of work and we are, we get let off the hook and we justify pretty easily why we, why we can't do it or why we don't do it.

01:04:17.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:04:18.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:04:19.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:04:19.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, that, I think that gives, uh, certainly gives lots of lots for me to think about. I hope it gives all of you listeners to lots to think about too. And please, as always, let us know what you think.

01:04:32.43
Kevin Shock
Um,

01:04:32.73
Nathan Pile
Yeah

01:04:33.47
Kevin Shock
Challenge us ah question us affirm us whatever whatever you feel called to do, but um we like to hear your your feedback additional texts, as we look at Maundy Thursday and this great celebration.

01:04:44.16
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:04:50.37
Kevin Shock
um Again, in quotes, celebration, this great feast. ah ah Exodus chapter 12, 1 through 14, the Passover of the Lord. Psalm 116 verses 1 and 2 and 12 through 19. I will lift up the cup, lift the cup of salvation and call on the name of the Lord.

01:05:10.46
Kevin Shock
And then 1 Corinthians 11 verses 23 through 26. Paul hands on to the people what has been handed on to him, the communion meal and proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

01:05:23.55
Kevin Shock
ah Nathan, as I've already said, you've given me a lot to reflect on, and appreciate that. And ah and we ah welcome your reflections too, dear listeners. We hope to attend our faith with you again soon.

01:05:35.33
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

01:05:37.09
Nathan Pile
And peace.