Episode 35: Galatians 3:23-29

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

From what has Jesus set you free?

Additional texts:

Isaiah 65:1-9

Psalm 22:19-28

Luke 8:26-39

1 Kings 19:1-15a

Psalm 42—43

Transcript

00:00:01.70
Nathan Pile
I got up, got out of bed, ran a comb across my head. Uh, yeah. Welcome back everybody to Tend, Bible podcast.

00:00:09.13
Kevin Shock
Oh, is that a song? Is that a song by, what are what are they called?

00:00:12.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:00:14.88
Kevin Shock
The cockroaches? the

00:00:16.84
Nathan Pile
Could be. I don't have any idea. It was taught to me when I was in summer camp when I was 16 by a guy that was double my age. Uncle Don Coslow.

00:00:25.18
Kevin Shock
Oh, it's a, well, yeah, that makes sense.

00:00:25.29
Nathan Pile
Um...

00:00:27.24
Kevin Shock
It's a Beatles song.

00:00:30.37
Kevin Shock
I think it's, I think it's a day in the life by the Beatles.

00:00:30.43
Nathan Pile
um

00:00:34.15
Nathan Pile
Maybe.

00:00:35.03
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:00:35.61
Nathan Pile
Could be. I don't know. So, that one of the things that we used to sing every morning at camp when he and I would show up for assembly, which was the gathering at the beginning of the morning.

00:00:47.99
Nathan Pile
And we'd say, got up, got out of bed, ran across my head. So, yeah. So, that's that's how my day's going. um

00:00:58.14
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:00:59.05
Nathan Pile
I um

00:00:59.89
Kevin Shock
Good.

00:01:00.81
Kevin Shock
Glad you ran a comb across your head.

00:01:03.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah, no it doesn't mean it did anything, but I did run a comb across my head. And then I put a hat on. So, um we are I'm in the throes of summer camp.

00:01:10.56
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:01:13.25
Nathan Pile
Kevin, how are you?

00:01:15.31
Kevin Shock
I'm doing okay. I'm doing just fine.

00:01:18.20
Nathan Pile
All right.

00:01:18.85
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:01:19.29
Nathan Pile
um Kevin, is he's got a big shirt on that says hug today. So, he's giving out hugs, if you see him.

00:01:26.89
Kevin Shock
It says, it says hug your dog and Nathan and I already had this conversation, but only, only hug your dog.

00:01:27.84
Nathan Pile
ah I, I can only see hug. I only can see hug. I can only see the word hug.

00:01:35.05
Kevin Shock
And only if you know that your dog likes it, do not hug other dogs. That is not a, that is not a helpful thing to do.

00:01:42.09
Nathan Pile
That's your public, public announcement, right? what What's that called?

00:01:46.55
Kevin Shock
Yes, that's my public announcement.

00:01:47.48
Nathan Pile
PSA, public safety announcement for the day.

00:01:50.58
Kevin Shock
Yes.

00:01:51.05
Nathan Pile
Only hug your own dog if you know your dog likes to be hugged.

00:01:54.62
Kevin Shock
Yes.

00:01:55.56
Nathan Pile
Um, otherwise you have to ask the dog and, and you don't really understand dog. So it would be hard to understand coming back, but that's not why we're here today. Even though we got that public attendance, that public safety announcement out of the way.

00:02:05.53
Kevin Shock
No.

00:02:08.97
Nathan Pile
No, instead we are here to tend our spirits. And, um, Kevin and I are, um, Excited to chat today. We're going to look at Galatians chapter 3, verses 23 through 29. Kevin and I are going to read from the Common English Translation, Common English Bible, CEB.

00:02:31.47
Nathan Pile
And so you can follow along on... um Bible Gateway or on the Bible app or whatever Bible you have close at hand as we read this text today.

00:02:45.88
Nathan Pile
We will also discuss, as is our norm, um three questions. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:02:57.32
Nathan Pile
And our third question today, from what has Jesus set you free?

00:03:04.73
Nathan Pile
um

00:03:04.81
Kevin Shock
just a sm- Just a small question.

00:03:06.78
Nathan Pile
Just a small little um little ditty for us today. All right.

00:03:14.38
Kevin Shock
Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

00:03:27.84
Kevin Shock
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

00:03:43.16
Kevin Shock
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience and perspective. As Nathan said, we're reading from Galatians 3 verses 23 through 29 the Common English

00:03:55.48
Kevin Shock
from the common english bible Before faith came, we were guarded under the law, locked up until faith that was coming would be revealed, so that the law became our custodian until Christ, so that we might be made righteous by faith.

00:04:11.54
Kevin Shock
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian. You are all God's children through faith in Christ Jesus. All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

00:04:25.00
Kevin Shock
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither a slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Now if you belong to Christ, then indeed you are Abraham's descendants, heirs, according to the promise.

00:04:42.40
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now ask the questions to one another. ah Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:04:55.98
Nathan Pile
um I, as you read it, the this time through, I was struck by the idea of the law being a custodian um for us and that And so so, you know, again, a custodian, oftentimes it makes me think of, you know, somebody that is, yes, a caretaker.

00:05:26.00
Nathan Pile
Sometimes we talk about custodians.

00:05:26.27
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:05:29.96
Nathan Pile
Like if I think about like when I was in school, the custodians oftentimes cleaned the buildings. um that we were in and so kind of took care of of cleaning up mopping taking out trash that kind of stuff um and so here we have this image of the law being our caretaker before before faith came

00:06:00.95
Nathan Pile
we were we were being cared for by the law um And I just find that I find that to be interesting where my head went immediately as I started to think about was, was how, how different our relationships are from law being our caretaker to faith that, that has been given to us.

00:06:28.54
Nathan Pile
Um, and so, yeah, so I'm good. That's, that's as far as I'm going to go right now. Um, But that was the thing that kind of caught my attention was this idea that that this law that has been handed down, this law that has been given by God was the was the thing that was to care for us.

00:06:52.33
Nathan Pile
and And though it does a a obviously meets that expectation,

00:07:03.69
Nathan Pile
like, again, if I go back to my image of being in a school, like the custodian really only has so much control over the children in the school.

00:07:18.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good point.

00:07:20.40
Nathan Pile
ah like Like the custodian has to clean up the mess, but oftentimes the custodian, and again, if we're using the image of the school, ah the cus- custodian didn't come into my classroom and was like, okay, you kids are terrible at cleaning up after you're like, that just didn't happen.

00:07:38.64
Nathan Pile
um They might've said something to the teacher maybe. And then the teacher had to say something to us, but the custodian wasn't, wasn't the one that was yes, they became the the cleaner up of messes, but they they weren't the one trying to.

00:07:56.06
Nathan Pile
They didn't come and tell us that we were weren't doing something right now. Again, this can be in limitations of words and and and human being stuff here with this idea of my understanding of of custodian.

00:08:11.39
Nathan Pile
But I find it interesting that the law

00:08:16.52
Nathan Pile
The law was the caretaker. um And yet the law was, the law is set ah set aside or is set up that it's it's either black and white. You're either, you're in or you're not. you're not and And oftentimes as I think of a caretaker, I think a caretaker has to be able to recognize recognize nuance, recognize challenges. But here the law is just It's either clean or it's not, you know, as a caretaker.

00:08:48.96
Kevin Shock
Yes. Yeah.

00:08:50.29
Nathan Pile
And so that's that's an interesting image to me.

00:08:50.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:08:53.52
Nathan Pile
and and And also feels like that at some point in time, it absolutely breaks down, which again, if we read the Old Testament, it does time and time again.

00:09:06.63
Nathan Pile
Or we, I wouldn't say that the law breaks down, but we fall short of meeting that law. so

00:09:18.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I I appreciate your point that the um that the caretaker doesn't have control over the, well, like you used the the school, the the caretaker doesn't have control over the kids.

00:09:30.27
Kevin Shock
But I think even in a, you know, The other place we hear custodian custodial is the the person who um is in charge of caring for a child, like legally.

00:09:43.97
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, custody.

00:09:45.40
Kevin Shock
And

00:09:45.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah,

00:09:46.51
Kevin Shock
and and in those cases, the the custodian often doesn't have complete control either of what the child is doing or going to do.

00:09:58.70
Nathan Pile
yeah.

00:09:59.09
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, I think it was helpful for me to hear that because I you know I always, we've talked down this vein before that this does not, ah passages like this, we in in our tradition, which is pretty well influenced by Paul, um do not think that the um the gospel negates the law, but they work hand in hand.

00:10:17.30
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:10:26.18
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:10:26.39
Kevin Shock
And it certainly does not, um It's not a big word here, supersessionist, in that ah that we don't think we don't think that that Jewish people are no longer chosen people by God. We still uphold that in our tradition.

00:10:44.51
Kevin Shock
um

00:10:44.76
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:10:46.18
Kevin Shock
um So it's not, Paul is not necessarily saying here, do away with the law. He's saying the law has served and serves a purpose. um But by itself, the law was not able to bring about righteousness.

00:11:02.11
Kevin Shock
and And when I read it, I read it it's because the law depends on us adhering to the law in order to create righteousness.

00:11:03.23
Nathan Pile
hmm

00:11:10.07
Kevin Shock
And human beings ah don't really have the power to do that um because of our brokenness, because of our sin.

00:11:16.19
Nathan Pile
hmm

00:11:20.15
Kevin Shock
ah so So righteousness has come through Christ, through the gift of faith. and um And the law did a great job of taking care of us up to that point and now now Jesus has brought righteousness into the world for good and and what this really is is it's a it's a movement at least in the understanding of salvation from this is something that uh relies on our work to this is something that relies solely on god's work yeah so yeah

00:11:55.50
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:12:01.86
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? What word, phrase, or image strikes you about this passage?

00:12:03.57
Kevin Shock
um

00:12:07.46
Kevin Shock
I don't want to sound too dorky or anything, but and. um And is the word.

00:12:15.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that doesn't sound dorky at all.

00:12:15.60
Kevin Shock
And yeah, ah right. It's um and in verse 28. um And this is something that always has, I think, always has caught my ear.

00:12:31.08
Kevin Shock
Um, but I've been thinking about it based on some things I've read recently that it's very clear in the Greek that, um, there is neither slave nor free, nor is there, me Im I'm sorry, there is neither Jew nor Greek.

00:12:45.61
Kevin Shock
There's neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female. The, the conjunction there changes from or or nor, depending on the English translation to and, um,

00:12:58.50
Nathan Pile
um

00:13:00.94
Kevin Shock
And, uh, I, I don't think,

00:13:08.25
Kevin Shock
I think, I think what this does is that it doesn't necessarily mean that, um, that, that gender is different than, uh, race or class as far as being, being a separator of human beings.

00:13:27.02
Kevin Shock
Um, But what this what I read and what I read in this is that that's exactly what Paul is talking about, is that all of these things that have separated us, and that male and female harkens back to language that's used in Genesis. I mean, that's something...

00:13:48.60
Kevin Shock
um You know, that's something that's early language. um And so I think that that's part of the reason why Paul uses the and there so as to mirror that language.

00:14:01.51
Kevin Shock
But I think it's become more clear to me over time. And what he that what he's saying is things like designations of. Race.

00:14:14.95
Kevin Shock
Jew or Greek class, slave or free and gender. male and female, are wiped away in the unity that we have in Christ.

00:14:27.95
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:14:28.16
Kevin Shock
and And it's a wonderful thing to like think that with your head, but it is so much harder to

00:14:39.57
Kevin Shock
live that out in your opinions about peop- other people.

00:14:47.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:14:49.05
Kevin Shock
I don't know how else to say it. I think that, um, I think that Christians think that we still cling to the law. And, um, I think we think that, you know, Jesus, Jesus makes everyone righteous.

00:15:08.46
Kevin Shock
And then also you have to complete these things according to the law or, um, live up to the law standards in order to remain righteous.

00:15:11.99
Nathan Pile
Thank

00:15:19.49
Kevin Shock
or something like that. I can't, I don't know exactly how to articulate what's, what's the theological gymnastics that someone is doing in their head. the The reality is, is that we still, as, as I've observed it, and I think lots of people have observed it, we still in the church use a, use distinctions of race, class, and gender to separate some groups of Christians from other groups of Christians.

00:15:47.11
Nathan Pile
We do. We do.

00:15:48.91
Kevin Shock
And, um, and Paul is pretty clearly saying here that none of those distinctions matter anymore.

00:15:56.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:15:59.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:16:01.85
Nathan Pile
Yeah, even if this is, you know, 2000 years ago, those distinctions of of race, class, and gender... absolutely still play out

00:16:16.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah, maybe not the particular ones that um Paul is talking about here, but but certainly, yes. they Yes, they're they're all still

00:16:26.37
Nathan Pile
well what one of them is the same you know we're we're dealing with um anti-semitism in our news today and

00:16:36.70
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:16:41.20
Nathan Pile
know, that phrase g Greek, you know, or not necessarily, but, but yeah, so it's just, it's, it is

00:16:51.31
Nathan Pile
a part of, of humanity and our, in our own judgment and other pieces. Boy, we have a hard time putting down race, class, and gender.

00:17:07.92
Nathan Pile
We want to divide ourselves up in those ways.

00:17:15.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah, we do.

00:17:15.47
Nathan Pile
for whatever For whatever

00:17:16.54
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:17:20.79
Nathan Pile
whatever reason.

00:17:23.70
Nathan Pile
you know well that's interesting It's just interesting to me, um the way that you share that, that we we can't seem to get away from this part of our humanity, of dividing ourselves up in these and these categories.

00:17:42.71
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Yeah.

00:17:46.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And the other, well, the other reason I'm just going to throw this in here quick. Well, maybe it'll be quick. um The other reason I'm thinking of this is just because an article I read recently in Christian Century by a theologian who talked about merisms,

00:18:04.55
Kevin Shock
And what a merism is, is that you use two contrasting um or or even complimentary things to talk about the the whole sum of things.

00:18:21.98
Kevin Shock
So um day and night, when we talk about you know day and night, we're talking about

00:18:31.88
Kevin Shock
dusk, dawn, sunrise, sunset. I mean, we're talking about every part of 24 hours, which we know that there's, there are varying stages of daylight and, and darkness.

00:18:46.19
Kevin Shock
Um, but just using the phrase day and night implies that we're talking about all of those things, uh, young and old. We're not just talking about little kids and very elderly people.

00:18:56.31
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:18:59.25
Kevin Shock
We're talking about everyone in between too. And, um you know, the this article was talking about um gender differences and and when God creates male and female, especially because God is using a lot of merisms in Genesis one ah to talk about this and that, you know, all of the God is using a lot of literary tools to talk about the sum of all things that God is creating.

00:19:32.52
Kevin Shock
Uh, um, anyway, there, there have been from the beginning of time, people who have been born without clear binary gender designation.

00:19:46.21
Kevin Shock
And so this person's hypothesis, which I tend to agree with is that when God talks about male and female, God is talking about every human being of every gender expression and every, um,

00:20:01.47
Kevin Shock
ah and every sex designation ah that exists, that God is including all of all of the genetic all all of the genetic and ah psychological variations um when God says male and female.

00:20:23.50
Kevin Shock
um And...

00:20:24.89
Nathan Pile
Does this this article that you were reading, or maybe you just know this from being a fantastic student of theology, um but is

00:20:24.94
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:20:33.58
Kevin Shock
Well, I don't know about that, but

00:20:40.56
Nathan Pile
is you know does it compare, is every time that that in Hebrew text or in at least in Paul, we talk about male and female. Is it always male and female?

00:20:51.67
Nathan Pile
Is always used that junction or connection?

00:20:53.56
Kevin Shock
I, that I don't know. I do know that it is that, that, that is the case here.

00:20:58.15
Nathan Pile
Here.

00:20:58.41
Kevin Shock
And frankly, I don't know how many times Paul uses male and female.

00:20:58.63
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:21:02.55
Kevin Shock
Or how many times Hebrew scripture uses male and female.

00:21:02.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah. don't I Yeah.

00:21:05.85
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:21:06.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:21:07.13
Nathan Pile
um I didn't didn't know if that if it was that extensive of a study or if it was more localized to a couple of verses or

00:21:08.62
Kevin Shock
But

00:21:14.61
Kevin Shock
it it, it was, it was focused on particular verses. it It was, it was a, it was a, a very short exploration of some of the places where scripture engages

00:21:30.64
Kevin Shock
language and conversation about people of varied gender expressions.

00:21:38.88
Kevin Shock
Um, and actually a large part of it is talking about Eunuchs,

00:21:42.69
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

00:21:44.15
Kevin Shock
um which Jesus does. Jesus.

00:21:47.79
Nathan Pile
I find it, I just find it very interesting. That's why I asked that question to go a little deeper with it just because it's, I'm not challenged, a challenge.

00:21:50.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. I don't know.

00:21:54.05
Nathan Pile
And and if you're the listener, I, Kevin and I know we're not, i'm that I'm not challenged, but I want you, the listener to know, I'm not challenged.

00:21:54.70
Kevin Shock
No, no, no.

00:22:00.55
Nathan Pile
Like, I'm just, I am curious if, if this is a way that helps us to see scripture more clearly or to understand that piece.

00:22:08.54
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:22:10.69
Nathan Pile
Um, because as we talk about gender, um, more and more as we're learning more about um gender identity and and gender and sexual orientation and all of these pieces, um that image of male and female giving us the, not just a spectrum, but ah maybe a full um fuller sense of of all that gender can be is helpful.

00:22:43.70
Kevin Shock
who Yeah.

00:22:45.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:22:45.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. and And I think that it's just clearly what what Paul is saying here is that this is this righteousness that comes through the gift of faith and through Christ Jesus is um is all expansive.

00:23:05.63
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:23:06.61
Kevin Shock
It includes people who adhere to the law and people who don't adhere to the law. It includes people who are of high social position and people who are of low social position.

00:23:18.75
Kevin Shock
And in fact, they are equalized in that ah in this in this righteousness.

00:23:22.11
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:23:27.46
Kevin Shock
And it includes... male people and female people and every other kind of person in a, in a gender or, or sex understanding that there is, there's not, no no one is, ah no one is being excluded in this passage.

00:23:50.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:23:54.71
Nathan Pile
Nice. I like it.

00:23:56.30
Kevin Shock
Anyway, and

00:23:56.89
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:23:59.04
Kevin Shock
and and is And is an inclusive word. it's it's thought we find We look in scripture, human beings look in scripture all the time to find ways to exclude people because that's just a part of our it part of our sinful nature.

00:24:09.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:24:13.69
Kevin Shock
It's part of our instinct. um how How can i put myself in a better position than somebody else when it comes to relationship with God or knowledge about religion or faith or any of that stuff. Yeah.

00:24:30.73
Kevin Shock
So anyway, this is, but this is inclusive.

00:24:35.09
Nathan Pile
Right. All right, you want to do it

00:24:38.02
Kevin Shock
All right. Yes. Let's do that, please.

00:24:44.83
Nathan Pile
second time? Before faith came, we were guarded under the gut law, locked up until faith that was coming would be revealed.

00:24:55.92
Nathan Pile
So the the law became our custodian until Christ, so that we might be made righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian.

00:25:11.28
Nathan Pile
You are all God's children through faith in Christ Jesus. All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

00:25:22.68
Nathan Pile
There is neither Jew nor Greek. There is neither slave nor free. Nor is there male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

00:25:35.72
Nathan Pile
Now, if you belong to Christ, then indeed you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to the promise.

00:25:47.76
Nathan Pile
Toward what is God calling you in this text, Kevin?

00:25:52.67
Kevin Shock
um I think that God is calling me to see the righteousness in every person

00:26:02.43
Kevin Shock
that Christ has claimed.

00:26:06.03
Kevin Shock
um It's not easy to do.

00:26:09.37
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:26:10.07
Kevin Shock
not this It's not easy to do. I don't think I have a problem doing it. I'll tell you where the biggest... ah the biggest barrier that I have to that exists, and that is people who don't feel the same way.

00:26:27.91
Kevin Shock
Like, I I don't have a I don't have a problem seeing the righteousness of Christ in people of other cultures, other races, other genders, other sexual expressions, other um other classes. I don't I don't have a problem seeing how Jesus loves all of those people.

00:26:44.85
Kevin Shock
where I have Where I encounter personally a problem is If someone is talking to me about who's in and who's out in the right, when it comes to the righteousness of Christ, I have a problem seeing righteousness in that person.

00:27:06.94
Kevin Shock
So I think, you know, I think someone of someone of any class is, can be a child of Christ and an heir to the promise.

00:27:19.84
Kevin Shock
But when someone comes at me and says, well, this kind of person can't be, then I have a problem seeing it in that person.

00:27:28.76
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

00:27:29.59
Kevin Shock
If it makes sense.

00:27:31.34
Nathan Pile
Absolutely makes sense.

00:27:31.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:32.58
Nathan Pile
And I would I would agree that it that that's one of my, that would be a group that would be also hard for me not judge them properly.

00:27:32.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:44.69
Nathan Pile
not judge them

00:27:50.64
Nathan Pile
and and and and put them in their own group which i would would thereby say is out out of what god is doing um and yet again because of who god is there's god makes room for them too which would be hard for me to fathom um

00:27:58.90
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:28:12.36
Kevin Shock
you Yeah. no Well,

00:28:16.14
Nathan Pile
Cause I want to, I want to just put them on the outside of the box. know, like you judged other people and put them say they can't be in. So I want to judge you and say you can't be in.

00:28:26.56
Nathan Pile
And then I'm not any better than they are.

00:28:28.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. and then and And then I'm I'm not sure, like I think I think the another point of struggle in addition to that is not just not seeing that person for the child of God that Christ has made them.

00:28:42.87
Kevin Shock
um Because it it seems to me like they're not acting as though they're a child of God whenever they're doing that kind of stuff. I mean

00:28:49.94
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:28:50.65
Kevin Shock
I mean, children are called to welcome other children well into the family and faithfully into the family. and it does And that does not mean condoning bad behavior.

00:29:04.48
Kevin Shock
um

00:29:07.74
Kevin Shock
ah But it does mean that people, um how do want to say this? we we are When we're welcomed into the to the the body of Christ, into the faith community, it shapes who we are.

00:29:24.19
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:29:24.92
Kevin Shock
And and I think I think a lot of times when I when I hear people, um

00:29:37.39
Kevin Shock
when when I hear people making distinction or or designation about who's in and who's out, it it feels to me like, wow, the community has not done its job in shaping you into the child of God that you that you are.

00:29:54.65
Kevin Shock
um And because because children of God don't talk about other children of God in the way that this person, this hypothetical person might be talking about them.

00:30:05.76
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:30:06.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:30:08.52
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:30:09.62
Kevin Shock
So I, yeah, I was reading this morning. um Yeah, I, gosh, I've, I have way, way cut my social media consumption for my own wellbeing.

00:30:22.28
Nathan Pile
Hmm. That's good.

00:30:24.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:30:24.68
Nathan Pile
That's good.

00:30:25.33
Kevin Shock
Um, I, I finally deleted all of the social media apps off my phone. So, so I, I really only look at Facebook if I have my laptop open and even then it's not like a constant thing.

00:30:33.01
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:30:37.77
Kevin Shock
It's just a now and then, um, But I did because of something I heard someone talking about. um Look online. ah And because there was recently in State College an act of vandalism or an attempted act of vandalism toward a pride flag that was flying outside of a church.

00:30:59.98
Kevin Shock
And so then, you know, you go on the news site and then, you know, you can read all the comments of underneath the news story on Facebook.

00:31:00.13
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

00:31:08.70
Kevin Shock
And the number of people,

00:31:13.07
Kevin Shock
who say something who say something along the lines of a real church shouldn't have a pride flag anyway, um or something along those lines.

00:31:23.41
Nathan Pile
Ay, ay, ay.

00:31:23.83
Kevin Shock
it it like it it it makes it really It makes me wonder why those people see themselves as the judge of what a real church is.

00:31:34.41
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:31:35.49
Kevin Shock
like it And it it even makes me wonder

00:31:40.52
Kevin Shock
when when When is the last time that you yourself have darkened the door of what a real church is?

00:31:46.81
Nathan Pile
Well, it's almost putting ourselves in the role of custodian, right?

00:31:49.95
Kevin Shock
it Yes. yeah Yes, that is exactly right. That's exactly right.

00:31:55.04
Nathan Pile
We're trying to say you're in or you're out.

00:31:55.19
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:31:58.42
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:31:58.91
Nathan Pile
We're the caretaker now.

00:31:59.39
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

00:32:00.86
Nathan Pile
and and And even under the law, we weren't the caretaker.

00:32:06.69
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:32:08.03
Nathan Pile
The law was the caretaker. We were not the caretaker. And so we have this temptation as human beings to want to be... well, to want to be God, to want to be the caretaker.

00:32:22.84
Kevin Shock
Right, right. right

00:32:24.58
Nathan Pile
um and And that's a part of our sinfulness. Absolutely. Always, you know, for me, that's pretty standard. Part of my definition um is when we want, when we think we're the most important, when we think we're the, the, the person that gets to make that judgment.

00:32:43.78
Nathan Pile
Typically we've put ourselves in, in the caretaker role, in the God role. And that's not, we're we that's never our role. Not, not under the law or under the gospel.

00:33:00.11
Nathan Pile
So, so, yeah.

00:33:02.43
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah yeah right being ah being a caretaker of someone means that you are taking care of them and and I guess in in one term of the in one meaning of the term custodian some people just want to sweep the church clean of everything that and everyone they disagree with but

00:33:10.70
Nathan Pile
you know

00:33:25.90
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:33:27.62
Kevin Shock
But we are called to be, we're called to be caretakers of of creation, of one another.

00:33:27.83
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:33:34.88
Kevin Shock
um and And God has given us ways to do that. God has given us direction. And then God has also given us the son who shows us and teaches us and gives his life for us so that we can take care well of one another.

00:33:54.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah. ah What about you, Nathan? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:34:00.58
Nathan Pile
ah there's there For me, there's there's pieces of this faith. ah So again, I agree with everything that you said, and and there's a part of that. But just to kind of expand on this question a little bit more, there's there's pieces of this gift of faith that we've now been given.

00:34:21.11
Nathan Pile
And how do I live with that? that I think um you know So I feel called toward faith, and I recognize as um there's always a part of that, me that lives in the challenge of what it doesn't mean to trust, what does it mean to to live in faith in God. and so um So I feel called toward faith, but for me there's also this this extra side of being very human,

00:34:51.91
Nathan Pile
and struggling with that idea of faith because I'd I'd much prefer to have that black and white law that i could feel like these people are in and these people are out um faith the the freedom that comes with faith here means that there's more gray in the world or more um fog. Like I can't see the whole picture all of the time with faith, um which means I seeking to be faithful means I have to struggle with it. I have to work at it.

00:35:30.79
Nathan Pile
um And so and ah this passage, I feel there's there's a part of that struggling of faith that is that That though it is a gift, um it's still a gift that I have to figure out how I'm living with it.

00:35:52.77
Nathan Pile
And the challenge that thereby comes with it.

00:35:53.30
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:35:54.19
Nathan Pile
Because different way living than the law. so

00:36:00.78
Nathan Pile
because it's a different it's a different way of living then under then under the law

00:36:10.65
Nathan Pile
And so that that that ambiguity, I don't know if it's ambiguity, that that unknown-ness maybe is the way of living in faith. those The places where we have doubt, the places where we have questions.

00:36:26.42
Nathan Pile
um

00:36:29.62
Nathan Pile
When we're called to live in faith, that that's a part of the way.

00:36:34.53
Nathan Pile
But it feels... feels

00:36:41.20
Nathan Pile
less certain than under the law. And so the the desire to go back to the law, that tension of of going back to the law, as opposed to trying to live in faith.

00:36:53.36
Nathan Pile
Though I feel very much so in this passage called to live in faith. And so how do i that that internal struggle piece is a piece that this passage kind of brings up for me.

00:36:58.21
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:37:08.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um

00:37:13.46
Kevin Shock
right Yeah, right. I mean, the law the law isn't easy because no no person can keep track of all those 600-some

00:37:26.70
Nathan Pile
623, I think. I think

00:37:28.17
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right. I can never remember the number commandments.

00:37:30.72
Nathan Pile
and it's that many.

00:37:32.21
Kevin Shock
There's not just 10 of them, but even if there were only 10 of them, we still wouldn't be able to do it.

00:37:33.56
Nathan Pile
Nope.

00:37:37.23
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:37:40.13
Kevin Shock
Especially if, you know, we, we have the, we have the interpretation of Martin Luther in our tradition and that, you know,

00:37:44.59
Nathan Pile
was going to say, but when he says do not kill, well, that really means don't harm.

00:37:50.72
Kevin Shock
yeah, it doesn't, yeah, it doesn't.

00:37:51.50
Nathan Pile
And not just humans, but everything.

00:37:53.78
Kevin Shock
Right. Right, and not and not and not just with your fists, but with your mouth too.

00:37:58.07
Nathan Pile
Right, right.

00:37:58.17
Kevin Shock
it Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, for him, no no, no, the sin is present even if the thought enters our head.

00:38:01.65
Nathan Pile
Luther doesn't take it easy on us. see we're We're all out. Right,

00:38:07.34
Kevin Shock
That's the thing.

00:38:07.47
Nathan Pile
right.

00:38:08.25
Kevin Shock
um

00:38:08.29
Nathan Pile
right

00:38:09.39
Kevin Shock
And ah right, so there's no way we could do it. It it lays out a very clear picture of what what is required under righteousness, but there's no way that we could do it.

00:38:21.08
Kevin Shock
And And also it lays out, I have to say, I'm I'm of the type of biblical interpreter, which I think is a faithful biblical interpretation, that it lays out exactly what the the people who were who were fleeing Egypt and slavery ah had to do in order to be ah faithful people and and and become the community that God intended them to be.

00:38:45.44
Kevin Shock
um

00:38:48.01
Kevin Shock
But that all is to say, Uh, living in faith is easier in one sense in that, um God has more of the control over the righteousness that happens.

00:39:01.61
Kevin Shock
god God is in charge. We're not in charge. And, and yet it also means that we don't have a clear cut direction for every situation we're going to encounter.

00:39:14.91
Kevin Shock
And so like we have to rely on the Holy Spirit to guide us.

00:39:15.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:39:19.14
Kevin Shock
And sometimes that that we that just throws us into the realm of mystery and and needing to say that there are some things I don't understand.

00:39:25.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:39:30.49
Kevin Shock
There are some things I don't know about. And I'm going to have to lean on the Spirit and to to shape me to be the person who the spirit and the community and the spirit through the community to shape me to be the person who, who loves in the way that Christ has loved me.

00:39:52.08
Kevin Shock
There's just a lot of mystery there. So.

00:39:55.25
Nathan Pile
Well, and and there's something about our time right now that mystery seems harder

00:40:04.52
Nathan Pile
than, again, what we've known, or I might say in in this passage, the law.

00:40:10.84
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:40:11.65
Nathan Pile
You know, like like, so there's this, again, as human beings, we have this tendency to kind of look back and look nostalgically upon what was good in the past, or at least what we perceived as good in the past.

00:40:22.79
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:40:23.91
Nathan Pile
But

00:40:26.67
Nathan Pile
the there's still a lot of brokenness in that past, even though we might i have idealized it or made it shiny and feel like it's the, you know, was good. There's the mystery part of it.

00:40:43.11
Nathan Pile
doesn't, you know, it's less concrete. I don't know. And so being able to be willing to explore or venture into that um can take a courage that we just don't,

00:40:57.04
Nathan Pile
um

00:41:00.72
Nathan Pile
we prefer prefer prefer prefer to put aside and give us Give us what we know. Give us the way it was. you know i feel like that's a little bit of our politic, political culture right now.

00:41:13.52
Nathan Pile
um because and And because it's a part of our political culture, it also becomes a part of just our culture culture. It becomes a part of the church culture. it becomes a part of our family culture. We want that which was...

00:41:29.04
Nathan Pile
which was known. And yet this gift and and your question, your third question is going to take us there. um This gift is, is freedom.

00:41:41.71
Nathan Pile
But sometimes we feel like freedom is what we're afraid of the freedom that it might entail. And so let's hunker back away from mystery, hunker back away from,

00:41:47.49
Kevin Shock
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:41:54.84
Nathan Pile
of, ah from faith. And let's just, Let's live in what we know kind of a thing. so

00:42:07.22
Nathan Pile
But I like that idea of that faith brings us brings us into such a way that that we should be able to be and can be open to

00:42:21.85
Nathan Pile
to mystery and where God's taken us.

00:42:23.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, just ah just a little over a chapter away from this is Paul's famous, uh, very, uh, maybe I shouldn't say this anti-American slogan for freedom. Christ has set us free.

00:42:43.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:42:44.40
Kevin Shock
Uh, and it is not, it is not easy to live into. It is not. like Yeah. Christ has called us to live in freedom. And Paul says, then don't let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

00:42:55.21
Kevin Shock
But what what the concept of freedom, as we understand it politically in the United States has become, is ah you you have the gift of freedom and you need to meet all of these requirements in order to continue being free.

00:43:13.39
Nathan Pile
To be able to be free.

00:43:14.77
Kevin Shock
You have to, right, you and you have to have requirements

00:43:14.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:43:18.32
Kevin Shock
political opinions. You have to show that you, uh, that you, uh, revere your freedom and the one who has, I, and I'm, and I don't want anyone to hear, you know, when he, when you, when you see bumper stickers and slogans, um, that say freedom isn't free.

00:43:20.03
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:43:36.86
Kevin Shock
ah but that's a, that's a, not a Christian concept.

00:43:40.38
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:43:40.99
Kevin Shock
It's, it's, it's far from a Christian concept. And, and that is not me saying that I don't, um, I don't honor, I I very much so honor veterans and sacrifices that they make the service that they do.

00:43:53.14
Nathan Pile
And they've made.

00:43:55.40
Kevin Shock
um

00:43:55.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:43:56.01
Kevin Shock
But what we're talking about here is we're not, what they have gained for this nation is not the freedom that Paul or Jesus Christ are talking about.

00:44:07.21
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

00:44:08.37
Kevin Shock
it's ah It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a brand of political freedom. And when our leaders have been terrible ah and Gregory requiring things of our soldiers um for nefarious purposes, then we're talking about it's also to.

00:44:24.75
Kevin Shock
uphold a level of convenience and privilege as a nation. And that's not on the soldiers that's on our leaders

00:44:36.29
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:38.74
Kevin Shock
Thank you veterans.

00:44:43.65
Kevin Shock
And I don't say that lightly because you put yourself in in roles that I would not be willing to put myself in. But that's not it. But when it comes to the freedom that God has given us, it is free.

00:44:57.84
Kevin Shock
It is free.

00:44:58.95
Nathan Pile
It's a gift.

00:44:59.57
Kevin Shock
it's It's given by Christ and no one can strip us of it.

00:45:04.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay. Well, why don't we go on to that third question?

00:45:07.95
Nathan Pile
Third question. Let's move there.

00:45:10.91
Kevin Shock
Okay, from Galatians chapter 3. before faith came we were guarded under the law locked up until faith that was coming would be revealed so that the law became our custodian until christ so that we might be made righteous by faith but now that faith has come we are no longer under a custodian you are all god's children through faith in Christ Jesus all of you who were baptized into christ have clothed yourselves with christ there is neither jew nor greek there's neither slave nor free I mean it.

00:45:42.84
Kevin Shock
for you are all one in christ Jesus now if you belong to christ then indeed you are Abraham's descendants airs according to the promise

00:45:54.09
Kevin Shock
Nathan for what has from what has Jesus set you free

00:46:00.64
Nathan Pile
I would, my first response, my first response to this would be me.

00:46:00.76
Kevin Shock
I mean like

00:46:06.52
Kevin Shock
okay

00:46:10.29
Nathan Pile
I didn't hear your question. what were well You had a second question?

00:46:13.90
Kevin Shock
Well, I would, no, I automatically started to say one thing and then saw the, looked on the prep sheet and saw that I had written something else down.

00:46:21.36
Kevin Shock
There are two questions there. From what has Jesus set you free? And for what has Jesus set you free? Those are two different  questions.

00:46:28.02
Nathan Pile
Yes, yes, yes.

00:46:29.11
Kevin Shock
So from what?

00:46:29.61
Nathan Pile
yeah So I was answering from what, so from what, because I read the question myself.

00:46:31.01
Kevin Shock
yeah Yes. Answer. Let's answer the one I wrote.

00:46:33.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:46:34.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:46:34.85
Nathan Pile
So from what has Jesus set me free? In many ways, I would say Jesus strives to set me free from me um and my own, my own confines, my, you know, we've talked about this a little bit today, that desire to, um to judge others that I feel like are wrong and, and should be,

00:46:57.56
Nathan Pile
that that judgment should be come upon them um for their wrong ideas or they're wrong um their wrong judgment.

00:47:08.77
Nathan Pile
But also the the doubts that I talked about here in this in this last question, that piece of my own self-doubt or my own desire for certainty um in the midst of that.

00:47:23.02
Nathan Pile
um freedom and mystery, still wanting to have a clear path. clear path Well, I'll do this, God, if I could just have a clear sense of what the direction I'm supposed to move in or or if I can see the end final end result.

00:47:38.76
Nathan Pile
So Jesus comes and all of these pieces would be things that I would associate associate with selfish Nathan, selfish and sinful Nathan, that that get in my way of being more loving, more empathetic, um more connected to the community um or communities that I live in and and um strive to be a part of. And so Jesus...

00:48:10.71
Nathan Pile
has come to free me of, of the, my per those personal fears, though, my personal, um, um,

00:48:23.76
Nathan Pile
selfish wants and desires for the world. And so that would be, that's definitely a part of, of this, kind of the conversation that we've had today and and the ways that I feel Jesus has brings about freedom or setting me free.

00:48:43.54
Nathan Pile
And also also helps to free me acceptance

00:48:51.95
Nathan Pile
broken world acceptance of a broken world and the parameters of that broken world. So there's parts of of the world that we live in that I just have adopted as, well, that's just the way the world works.

00:49:08.31
Nathan Pile
And yet Christ's freedom should help me to to have hope that that doesn't mean that's the way the world has to be or continue to be, that I can seek and strive to to be a part of

00:49:27.42
Nathan Pile
of the freedom that God intends for the world,

00:49:34.02
Nathan Pile
which means I also need to unburden myself with some of human-made culture, human-made structure um that that I've adopted as, well, if I'm going to survive in this world, this is what I have to do.

00:49:54.31
Nathan Pile
um So like all of all three of those are wrapped up into this freedom that that Jesus gives me. But all of them have the unifying peace being me.

00:50:11.27
Nathan Pile
you know So the freedom is has has been to help me free myself from...

00:50:11.88
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:50:20.81
Nathan Pile
From my own standards, from the standards of ah of the the world that I have believed to have to be the case, even though, again, I think Jesus comes into the world to radically disturb it, to kind of say world's ways aren't God's ways.

00:50:39.62
Nathan Pile
And so I need to be reminded of that freedom so that maybe I can keep looking at the world with new eyes of what Jesus is trying to do.

00:50:54.61
Nathan Pile
What about you, my friend? From what has Jesus set you free?

00:50:58.90
Kevin Shock
Well, I've had some time to think about this. so um So I feel like my I have a more concise answer than I normally do. ah

00:51:12.51
Kevin Shock
Christ has set me free from the need to please God so that I'm free to love God. And and it ah the same has also happened for people.

00:51:30.08
Kevin Shock
Christ has set me free from the need to please people so that I may fully love people. not that i'm Not that I'm perfect at it. Not that I do it well. but um But I think i've I've seen both of those changes in my life over the course of time that I used to be more concerned about pleasing God than loving God.

00:51:53.07
Kevin Shock
I mean, as a kid, especially, I think.

00:51:55.11
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:51:55.79
Kevin Shock
And then, um, and then, ah the same has been with people that, that lasted longer into my adulthood.

00:51:55.89
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:52:05.50
Kevin Shock
Um, but I feel like, I feel like in the last, I don't know how many years, the last decade or so, I'm finally getting a handle on it.

00:52:05.58
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:52:15.91
Kevin Shock
That, not but Now I will say there's a complex relationship in my, in my, uh, in my body and my psyche, um, with, I don't have the need to please people, but I also, ah viscerally despise disappointing people.

00:52:41.34
Kevin Shock
Um, so there's, so there's that complicated, ah relationship still exists within me.

00:52:49.17
Kevin Shock
But I think, I think from an intellectual standpoint, I ah understand it better than I did before.

00:52:55.94
Nathan Pile
sure sure keep practicing it yeah

00:52:56.36
Kevin Shock
And so I hope over time I can live into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah but no

00:53:07.25
Nathan Pile
well and and um A, I appreciate the conciseness, because I think that probably some, well, because some of what you're talking about is is what I was struggling to kind of articulate here, ah of of how how do we

00:53:19.22
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:53:26.89
Nathan Pile
we, knowing the way and living the way are are different things. Yeah. And we have to begin to understand the way to be able to try to experiment and practice and live the way.

00:53:42.24
Nathan Pile
um And so it's a twofold piece. And so you're you're boiling it down to that idea of of loving God and loving others.

00:53:58.68
Nathan Pile
I think is is ah is a, I appreciate it in in in helping us to kind of recognize that knowing it doesn't mean that we're doing it.

00:54:10.08
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah, right.

00:54:11.83
Nathan Pile
um And again, are our human tendencies and our community tendencies can sometimes be, well, you're not getting it, so you must be out.

00:54:25.66
Nathan Pile
not You're not inside God's box here. And yet, and and yet, faith frees us from the black and white of the law, like the clear boundary of the law, because we couldn't do the law to begin with.

00:54:46.85
Nathan Pile
It was too, hard as you said earlier, it's too hard. 623 rules, we couldn't keep it. we We couldn't keep 10 straight. And then we added, you know, 613 more.

00:54:57.45
Nathan Pile
um And so being able to to do all of that, even though it might have cared for our soul and cared for our direction for living life, it was too hard to do. And and now this gift of freedom is ah is another way, but it's not simple.

00:55:18.09
Nathan Pile
um simple

00:55:22.80
Kevin Shock
no

00:55:22.85
Nathan Pile
because it it takes practice for all of the reasons that you we've talked about, putting away race, class, and gender as things that divide us and all of the other things that we use to divide ourselves, um putting that away to be able to say that every person has value.

00:55:45.98
Nathan Pile
And that's the way God looks at them. And so how do I practice that lens? How do I practice using God's lens for the world as my lens.

00:55:59.47
Nathan Pile
Um, that's powerful. So.

00:56:02.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's ah that's a good reminder, Nathan, using God's lens for the world God's lens for the world as my lens. Yeah, and that's and that's hard because how many times have we said in this...

00:56:15.23
Kevin Shock
in

00:56:17.63
Kevin Shock
in this, uh, this very podcast episode that we can't put ourselves in the place of God.

00:56:23.24
Nathan Pile
Right, right.

00:56:23.74
Kevin Shock
Um, but, um, but we have learned about God and, and we've learned some pretty simple things about God. Um, and, and they, they all pretty much point to love.

00:56:41.30
Kevin Shock
It's the, and that's all that's,

00:56:41.67
Nathan Pile
Well, and oftentimes what we want to do is is usurp God's way with our way when we when we become the caretaker or when we try to take the role of caretaker.

00:56:47.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

00:56:53.50
Nathan Pile
this piece of using God's lens isn't like we don't get to hold the lens. It's not our lens. It's God's.

00:56:59.49
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:56:59.66
Nathan Pile
Um, we don't have, so it's being able to peer into the world through that lens, but recognizing it's not our lens.

00:57:01.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:57:06.87
Nathan Pile
We can't create it. We can't make it. Um, you know, it'd be interesting to have somebody on that's like an expert of lenses and and the reality of how hard it is to make a lens anyway.

00:57:18.30
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:57:18.80
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:57:19.57
Nathan Pile
like the glass lenses that we wear and and all of that goes into those. But being able to kind of think about it's not ours to make, though we want to. We want to make that lens so that it just makes us comfortable and it makes us,

00:57:37.05
Nathan Pile
like we we feel like we're in control and we have the power if it's our lens, but it's it's not our lens. God to borrow lets us borrow the lens to peer through it.

00:57:48.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. And, and I think that, uh, that the person of Jesus is there's the lens. We, we, we, we look, we look at how Jesus interacts with people and treats people.

00:57:58.51
Nathan Pile
There it is. yeah

00:58:05.91
Kevin Shock
And that's our, that's the lens right there.

00:58:09.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:58:15.25
Nathan Pile
Yep.

00:58:15.33
Kevin Shock
and Okay. Well, anything else?

00:58:18.35
Nathan Pile
I don't have anything else um except that we have some additional readings. um Those additional readings come from Isaiah 65 verses 1 through 9. The prophet is sent to a rebellious people.

00:58:31.80
Nathan Pile
Psalm 22 verses 19 through 28. In the midst of the assembly, I will praise you. Gospel is Luke chapter 8 verses 26 through 39. Jesus casts out demons and specifically demons possessing a man.

00:58:52.00
Nathan Pile
of the Gerasenes. And then first, ah some additional texts that are, are these the semi-continuous readings, I'm assuming.

00:59:00.83
Kevin Shock
Yes, we're back in that season.

00:59:01.51
Nathan Pile
um So we're in that season in the summer where um the Revised Common Lectionary gives us long, like passages of some Old Testament Psalms and texts that would allow us to to read even more of the Bible.

00:59:19.92
Nathan Pile
And so, um First Kings 19 verses 1 through fifteen a Elijah hears the word of the Lord in the midst of silence. And then Psalm 42, 43, so two Psalms, send out your light and truth that they may lead me.

00:59:34.98
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:59:40.07
Nathan Pile
And so additional text that would, that would, um echo some of the themes that we've talked about to- today um here off from this Galatians passage, but would give you some further further reading in scripture as you're, maybe you're doing your weekly devotions or so forth.

01:00:02.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And, um, before we sign off a couple of, uh, just wanted to lift up. We received a couple of emails recently about, um, about ah a, uh, current episode or not a current episode, but ah a recent episode, uh, the, the one on Romans.

01:00:20.01
Kevin Shock
And I can't remember exactly. That's the, that's the, um, the, that was another children of God and heirs of the promise, uh, reading from, from Romans eight.

01:00:27.06
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:00:29.45
Kevin Shock
But, um, Sherry wrote that, ah you know, Sherry, the one who always checks in to make sure I'm doing okay, that I appreciate. um But she wrote this time that she ah felt joy, um the joy that was emphasized in that in that episode and appreciated it.

01:00:46.21
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:00:47.73
Kevin Shock
and and And her prayer is that all of our congregations focus on being welcoming so that all of our pastors and all of our people feel the joy shared in our communities. That's a great prayer, Sherry.

01:00:57.85
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:00:58.56
Kevin Shock
Thank you for sharing that.

01:00:59.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:01:00.16
Kevin Shock
And ah Susan um emailed and said that um that she listens to our podcast all the time.

01:01:00.18
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

01:01:07.68
Kevin Shock
Thank you, Susan. That's great to hear. We we suspected it, but it's also great to have that affirmation.

01:01:12.79
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:01:14.14
Kevin Shock
um But she said this particular one really touched her. The church has some cleaning up to do. ah But reversing the believe, learn, belong to a belong, learn, believe process is a start.

01:01:31.96
Kevin Shock
And she thanks us for taking the time to talk about that. So so thanks to Sherry and to Susan.

01:01:35.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah. right

01:01:37.67
Kevin Shock
And as always, we, well, Nathan will say it too, but we we welcome your your emails, your comments, and any feedback you have.

01:01:47.21
Nathan Pile
yeah Well, and it's ah it's this is an ongoing conversation together. um And so, again, your words, ah sharing those back, at whether they be in person or um ah through email or through social media, continues the conversation of each of these different um dialogues that Kevin and I share together, but also intend, because we've recorded it, we intend to share it with you.

01:02:11.69
Nathan Pile
And so how do we share this ongoing conversation together? Again, Kevin and I are exploring ways that we might be able to do that in a, in more of a closed community way, um, digitally. Um, and that will be coming here as, as we, uh, continue to work this process through.

01:02:29.62
Nathan Pile
Um, but we, we give thanks for our time together. Uh, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:02:39.93
Kevin Shock
And peace.