Episode 36: Luke 9:51-62

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What gets you off-course?

Additional texts:

1 Kings 19:15-16, 19-21

Psalm 16

Galatians 5:1, 13-25

2 Kings 2:1-2, 6-14

Psalm 77:1-2, 11-20

Transcript

00:05.11
Kevin Shock
Nathan lives at camp, so he only has the sound of ah tweeting birds and gently blowing breezes to distract him during podcast recording.

00:16.80
Kevin Shock
ah It's quiet here in Howard today. Normally I have lawnmowers or screaming children or dogs barking or something like that. So we're going to take advantage of this next bit of time to have some quiet scriptural and theological reflection.

00:29.90
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:35.64
Kevin Shock
Okay, today um we are looking at Luke chapter 9 verses 51 to 62. The translation we are using is the NRSVUE. I'll let Nathan sing his little ditty at some point if he wants to.

00:51.29
Kevin Shock
um The three questions we're looking at today, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And what gets you off course?

01:05.44
Kevin Shock
Nathan?

01:06.16
Nathan Pile
I told Kevin this was a great question, and and I feel like we should just launch into that right now because it's easily I'm easily distracted today.

01:12.50
Kevin Shock
ah

01:13.31
Nathan Pile
Easily distracted. So we could I could I could just go on and on about what gets me off course, but I won't.

01:14.70
Kevin Shock
oh

01:19.12
Nathan Pile
So um ah and some information about your hosts. ah We are men married to women in financially stable households, white firmly in our middle age. College and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

01:35.91
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as you engage scripture.

02:01.28
Nathan Pile
Luke 9, chapter 9, verse 51 to 62. In the New Revised Standard Version, updated edition.

02:12.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's a new one.

02:14.45
Kevin Shock
That's a new ditty.

02:16.38
Nathan Pile
Like, hey, you feeling creative.

02:16.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Good.

02:21.95
Nathan Pile
When the days drew near to him, for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem. And he sent messengers ahead of him.

02:33.02
Nathan Pile
On their way, they entered a village of of the Samaritans to prepare for his arrival. But they did not receive him because his face was set toward Jerusalem.

02:44.32
Nathan Pile
When his disciples, James and John, saw this, they said, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them. Then they went on to another village.

02:57.66
Nathan Pile
As they were going along the road, someone said to him, I will follow you wherever you go. And Jesus said to him, Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head.

03:12.63
Nathan Pile
To another, he said, follow me. But he said, Lord, first let me go bury my father. And Jesus said to him, let the dead bury their own dead. But as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.

03:25.91
Nathan Pile
Another said, I will follow you, Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home. And Jesus said to him, no, no one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.

03:48.30
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or if you're just listening along in your car, ah Kevin's going to answer what word, phrase, or image strikes him in this text.

04:03.72
Kevin Shock
Um, there, there's lots of stuff in here, um that makes all that makes my ears perk up. Um, but I think, I'll, I'll just stick with the first one I heard.

04:17.20
Kevin Shock
And that is, um, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? Um, I mean, it's just,

04:28.09
Nathan Pile
It's just great.

04:28.56
Kevin Shock
yeah.

04:29.28
Nathan Pile
It's just great. I'm a disciple of Jesus and I want to bring I want to bring the retribution.

04:30.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

04:35.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, that's that's part of it is that they yeah, they seem so eager to um I don't know what it is in the gospel, according to Luke, that they discover that they have some kind of um well, that that their proximity to Jesus has given them power to do ministry.

04:59.44
Nathan Pile
No.

04:59.60
Kevin Shock
And that includes at one point casting out demons. And at some point they go from ah being amazed at being able to cast out demons to thinking that they'll try to rain fire down on the people who don't welcome them.

05:15.02
Kevin Shock
um I mean, if I'm not mistaken, I'd, oh, it no, it is very human.

05:18.19
Nathan Pile
It's very, it feels very human though. It feels very human.

05:22.49
Kevin Shock
It is, it is, it's, it's extreme, but maybe that's the point of,

05:28.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah, of what's going on here.

05:28.87
Kevin Shock
of this part of the narrative.

05:30.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

05:30.69
Kevin Shock
um I think that I can't think, I don't ah yeah I don't know, I don't have the I don't have the whole of the gospel according to Luke right in front of me, so I'm I'm I don't know exactly what what had happened with sending out the apostles And I mean, in Luke's language, I don't know exactly what happened.

05:53.53
Kevin Shock
um but But I'm sure, I mean, in other gospels, at least they're casting out demons. They're they're they're doing all of the things that Jesus can do. They're healing the sick. um And they come back amazed that they can do it. ah This doesn't really translate. This is, I think that, well, and the more I, more I,

06:16.56
Kevin Shock
work through it as talking about it. Maybe it's because they confuse, they're confused about, they think maybe that the power is seated in themselves.

06:26.84
Nathan Pile
um

06:27.57
Kevin Shock
They only have the power to do those things, cast out demons, heal the sick, because they're doing what Jesus has called them to do. But if they try to do other supernatural stuff that's according to their own will, it's not going to happen.

06:42.76
Kevin Shock
I mean, that's that's part of, I think that's part of the irony of this part of the narrative is that the readers who are reading this know that that they would not be able to command fire to come down from heaven and consume their the people who didn't welcome them.

06:58.49
Nathan Pile
yeah

06:58.92
Kevin Shock
Like, it's just not in line with everything else that's going on. So so wouldn't a

07:02.66
Nathan Pile
does Yeah. mean It's not a part of Jesus's narrative at all.

07:06.07
Kevin Shock
No, no, it's not. No, it's not something that would would be a part of his ministry. So... even their suggestion of it is absurd, but maybe that's just because they're still, you know, this is also, we we hear, I assume at some point in this gospel, and I couldn't tell you exactly where that this is, you know, we remember hearing that Peter was called Satan by Jesus and was told to set his mind, not on human things, but divine things.

07:41.62
Kevin Shock
And that's what's happening here is they're setting their mind on human things and not divine things.

07:50.38
Kevin Shock
Anyway, that's, that's, that's one of the many things that captures my attention in this reading.

07:55.01
Nathan Pile
in this reading yeah um again there was lots ah your yours was one of them the the other one um for me is again Jesus is very definitive of what it means to be um or not definitive maybe um

07:55.37
Kevin Shock
What, yeah. What about you, Nathan? What, what strikes you in this text?

08:15.46
Nathan Pile
In some ways, the words just feel a little harsh about what it means to be a disciple. And so the second section is also

08:22.75
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

08:25.29
Nathan Pile
um about that. And so I specifically that last verse of 62, no one puts a hand on the to to the plow and looks back ah is fit for the kingdom of God.

08:37.16
Nathan Pile
And yet it's very human. to like Again, if i'm if I'm plowing a field, like I know what I do and with like a rototiller. I look back every now and then. Does it all look okay? Does it look like it's working out all right?

08:52.68
Nathan Pile
um

08:53.48
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

08:54.06
Nathan Pile
So there's this idea of of if ah we're serving God's kingdom. Don't be human. Don't be human to say goodbye to your family.

09:03.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah

09:04.22
Nathan Pile
Don't be human to bury your dead father. um And so it does feel... again, harsh is the way it it feels to me.

09:15.14
Nathan Pile
um And, and though I also understand the other side of this and, and, and even experience it as the church or as part of the camp ah where I work is like, like we look back and say, well, I wish it was like that.

09:34.91
Nathan Pile
And so, and when that happens, we're like stuck

09:40.20
Nathan Pile
We're like, we're not moving forward. Instead, we spend our time looking back and celebrating what was. And so there's this, our own humanity gets in our way of moving the the the gospel or the good news forward, saying, and I think we we're right now we're in a, um,

10:03.36
Nathan Pile
a particular part of that age, at least it feels that way. Maybe every age feels this way that, that when you're in the midst of so much, um, upheaval, um, and anxiety in our, in our so cultural systems, in our church systems, um, that we have this thing that we look back and say, oh it was better.

10:24.54
Nathan Pile
was better back then. um

10:27.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

10:28.73
Nathan Pile
And so this idea of, and so that part of it for me in this, like it makes sense. If my hand's on the plow and I'm and I and I and I look back, um then I become transfixed on what ah what what was behind me.

10:45.24
Nathan Pile
um as like as you know as you really wre- As you really wrestle with this section of what it means to follow Jesus.

10:45.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

10:54.91
Nathan Pile
But it is... um does again it it feels a little harsh yet at the same time this this quote here at the end that i've kind of latched on to is also like i can see where our our humanity gets in the way of us following the ways of Jesus

11:14.75
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah yeah

11:15.60
Nathan Pile
stunts our stunts our movement forward at least it feels like that right now and and i wouldn't just say right now would say for the last

11:26.05
Nathan Pile
20 or so years, it feels that way as a part of the church that we're constantly looking back and saying, pointing to when, when it was better, or at least when we felt it was better, when there was more people showing up.

11:41.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And, oh boy, I'm, I don't want to be, I don't, I don't want to be yes martyred for what I'm about to say.

11:50.87
Nathan Pile
ah

11:53.67
Kevin Shock
Um, I think it's, I think it's because we human beings often equate

11:54.91
Nathan Pile
No martyrdom. No martyrdom, anyone.

12:05.36
Kevin Shock
easier with better.

12:08.26
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

12:10.07
Kevin Shock
when there were When there were more people in the church, we didn't have to worry about how much money was coming in.

12:13.25
Nathan Pile
It was easier.

12:17.47
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

12:18.13
Kevin Shock
When there were more people in the church, there were always was always a critical mass to to either run or participate in the programs that we were doing. um

12:31.49
Kevin Shock
When there were more people in the church, we didn't have to go out and tell other people about Jesus.

12:41.46
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:43.20
Kevin Shock
When there were more people in the church, we could afford to piss some people off. And didn't it didn't matter if they didn't come back.

12:53.02
Kevin Shock
Fewer people in the church means that we have to work harder to get along with one another. And we have to work harder to bear witness to what Jesus is doing among us. That's, I mean, that's the reality.

13:04.97
Kevin Shock
it's It's harder when you have fewer people. And not just for the human reasons that we think of. It's harder for some of the holy reasons too. have to We have to put our hand at the plow and not look back.

13:18.69
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

13:19.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, a couple of reflections on what you said. First of all, think it's important to note the first verse in this reading.

13:30.64
Kevin Shock
And that is that this is a point in the gospel. ah Jesus is always focused on his mission. But this is the point in the gospel wherever he turns to Jerusalem and he knows what his mission life and ministry are going to culminate in, and that is death on a cross.

13:51.04
Kevin Shock
And he is, he's laser focused on it now. He's, he's headed that way. He knows, he knows that he's going to go into Jerusalem.

14:02.03
Kevin Shock
He's going to stir up trouble ah just by, just by being who he is, not, not intending to stir up trouble, but the clash between,

14:13.61
Kevin Shock
the kingdom of God and the kingdom of this world. Um, and so he's he's laser focused. And so he's asking his people to be laser focused too.

14:22.67
Nathan Pile
Yeah

14:23.72
Kevin Shock
I think, I think that's part of what's going on here in this reading. Uh, the other thing I just wanted to mention, and maybe I've talked about on this podcast before something I heard years ago that has been so helpful to me ah more metaphorically than practically,

14:40.60
Kevin Shock
um although practically a little bit too, is, uh, uh, Bob Skelly, who is a, uh, lay leader in our synod in the church here.

14:51.41
Kevin Shock
Um, and is a retired psychologist has done for years has done, uh, uh, psychological evaluations for candidates entering ministry for us. He he just, he served on Senate council. He's done a lot of stuff.

15:06.00
Kevin Shock
It's going to be at the Tend festival in, in just a few days, but which will have, will have been this last weekend when you listen to this.

15:09.98
Nathan Pile
Couple days. Couple

15:14.83
Nathan Pile
days, yeah.

15:15.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

15:16.22
Nathan Pile
and So don't go looking for it You can't come.

15:16.41
Kevin Shock
um Yeah. Don't go looking for it.

15:18.96
Kevin Shock
It's already over. Sorry. um But he, he grew up on a farm. And, uh, he, I remember him telling me one time, and I can't even remember the context of the the conversation, but he said, if you want to if you want to plow a straight line or mow a straight line in a field, you look to the end point, you keep your eye focused on the end point, and then everything will work out. If you're looking at the ground right in front of you, you start weaving back and forth because you can't maintain perspective on what's ahead.

15:54.41
Kevin Shock
And, um, It has helped me ah in one section of my yard to mow straighter lines, that is for sure. ah

16:05.18
Nathan Pile
Everybody, Kevin's got like a, um it's like three picnic tables.

16:05.64
Kevin Shock
But...

16:09.40
Nathan Pile
That's how big his yard, his backyard is. It's like,

16:11.40
Kevin Shock
It's a little bit bigger than that.

16:12.79
Nathan Pile
A little bit bigger. little bit bigger than that.

16:13.83
Kevin Shock
um On the...

16:14.91
Nathan Pile
Maybe four.

16:15.24
Kevin Shock
um

16:15.90
Nathan Pile
Four picnic.

16:16.06
Kevin Shock
on the area On the area that I mow between our property and the neighbor's property, there's a there's a ah bit of a long a stretch that extends the entire length of the property.

16:16.55
Nathan Pile
All

16:25.92
Kevin Shock
But anyway, yeah,

16:27.36
Nathan Pile
right. All right.

16:29.89
Kevin Shock
yeah it doesn't, I don't I don't get off course.

16:31.41
Nathan Pile
Everybody. Everybody. Like, when Kevin's saying he's trying to mow straight lines, just know that it's, you know, 20

16:39.26
Kevin Shock
It's a short distance.

16:40.38
Nathan Pile
twenty yards

16:41.69
Kevin Shock
No, it's, well... No, it's no, the longest is longer than 20 yards, but not maybe not much more, maybe 30, 30 yards.

16:48.35
Nathan Pile
25, 27 maybe. Maybe 27. Absolutely. Yeah. twenty seven maybe twenty seven

16:53.00
Kevin Shock
Uh, anyway, but it's also helped me, um, in, in ministry, um, uh,

17:00.14
Nathan Pile
absolutely

17:02.80
Kevin Shock
remembering it's so easy to focus on the little things that are right in front of you that it's, it it it can be hard to lose the big scope of what we're trying to do. And, and, and even more importantly, the big scope of what God in Christ is doing among us.

17:12.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah

17:19.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

17:19.82
Kevin Shock
Um, and I, I know that as I've done some work since I've been in the Senate office and working with congregations on mission and vision,

17:32.74
Kevin Shock
but we we've talked about, and this is this is language I've borrowed from somebody, from ah another person, Mike Ward, um not his language exactly, but but thinking of a vision statement as something that you will never accomplish, but something that you hope one day to be true as a result of the work that you're doing.

17:55.72
Kevin Shock
um Because that will help keep you, that that will help you maintain your straight line.

18:02.96
Nathan Pile
No. No.

18:03.12
Kevin Shock
That'll help you maintain your focus. does Does this feed into the world that we we are trying to create through this work or ministry?

18:14.54
Nathan Pile
no

18:15.25
Kevin Shock
um yeah I think of the one organization that i'm I volunteer on the board of directors is Center Safe in Center County. And that's a it's ah an organization that um ah works toward or is ah is a safe haven for people who are ah who are suffering from relationship or sexual violence.

18:39.90
Kevin Shock
And in the mission statement is creating a community free of relationship and sexual violence. And I don't think that that will ever happen necessarily.

18:52.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:52.18
Kevin Shock
Not in this world as we know it, but that keeps us focused in the work that we're doing.

18:58.32
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:58.92
Kevin Shock
that that's what we're working toward. So, yeah. So shout out to Bob. That was a really, ah really great example that has stuck with me for many, many years. And, and it's, I mean, I, anytime I read this particular passage, I hear that, I hear echoes of Bob in my head when Jesus says that line about, because I can imagine someone, you know, with, with their hand on the plow and they turn to look behind them and suddenly the plow veers, whichever way they've just turned their head.

19:15.01
Nathan Pile
That's

19:27.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:27.52
Nathan Pile
Sure. Yeah.

19:28.52
Kevin Shock
Yep.

19:30.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah. It makes, um, makes for great, um, advice as we think about, um, strategy, ministry, moving forward, vision, uh, maybe not so much for a 27 yard mowing expedition.

19:49.85
Kevin Shock
Hey, it's a great looking yard though.

19:50.57
Nathan Pile
Um, yeah.

19:51.61
Kevin Shock
Let me tell you.

19:53.85
Nathan Pile
The neighbors, everybody talks about how how straight Kevin's lines are in his yard. That's what I like. Howard and Howard, they're meeting at the coffee shop talking about, do you see Kevin Shock?

20:05.30
Nathan Pile
He's got some really straight lines over there in 27-yard green strip of grass.

20:07.55
Kevin Shock
Oh no, no one would even notice. Yeah.

20:13.27
Nathan Pile
so yeah All right, let's look it a second time, buddy.

20:18.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Let's do that. Okay, um from Luke chapter 9. When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem, and he sent messengers ahead of him.

20:33.02
Kevin Shock
On their way, they entered a village of the Samaritans to prepare for his arrival, but they did not receive him because his face was set toward Jerusalem. When his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?

20:48.45
Kevin Shock
ah But he turned and rebuked them. Thank goodness. Then they went on to another village. As they were going along the road, someone one said to him, I will follow you wherever you go. And Jesus said to him, Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head.

21:05.11
Kevin Shock
To another, he said, follow me. But he said, Lord, first let me go and bury my father. And Jesus said to him, let the dead bury their own dead. But as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.

21:16.56
Kevin Shock
Another said, I will follow you, but let me first say farewell to those at my home. And Jesus said to him, no one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.

21:30.75
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

21:33.85
Nathan Pile
Um,

21:38.22
Nathan Pile
ministry, serving, serving God, living in God's ways, isn't going to be easy.

21:45.96
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and I think,

21:54.42
Nathan Pile
well, it's not that I think this passage is like this in in um in the gospels specifically, or even with Paul, we get some of this with Paul,

22:08.23
Nathan Pile
um

22:10.79
Nathan Pile
recognition that that um living in God's ways are challenging um and and affect our lives in ways that as comfortable human beings or seeking to be, as you said, um like things are better because they're easy.

22:31.89
Nathan Pile
um

22:34.75
Nathan Pile
I think we do need to be reminded like that that living in and about God's kingdom, me living as a part of God's kingdom, means there's challenges to it.

22:48.08
Nathan Pile
And having that reminder, ah both for the people who are disciples. So um other other teachers, other leaders of the of the of the movement, or if we're people who are followers who are, yeah, like I want to i want to be a part of this.

23:09.87
Nathan Pile
um There can be a lot that gets asked of us. And this is a common struggle for me. i know I've talked about it probably in some different ways, but um this week it kind of strikes me as like, how do we, how do we do this and not, ah you know, burn ourselves out as leaders in ministry or as individuals in ministry? How do we, how do what we do,

23:42.49
Nathan Pile
How do we live this in balance? How do we live in God's ways? You know, I have a tendency to to um um over overdo it in some way my life.

23:57.55
Nathan Pile
own schedule. I'm an over, uh, uh, overachiever over something, um, that I'm seeking to do more sometimes than I can, you know, physically do.

24:10.58
Nathan Pile
Um, so, you know, I get sick or run myself into the ground. Um, and I don't think God intends that for us either. but but But, you know, more recently, ah because I'm getting older and it's harder to be able to keep the same pace that I kept when I was younger.

24:30.31
Nathan Pile
um As I get older, how do I live more in balance in God's ways? And I don't think that this passage means don't live in balance.

24:35.49
Kevin Shock
Hm.

24:42.15
Nathan Pile
But i i overcompensate in such a way that that that sometimes I overdo

24:42.66
Kevin Shock
No

24:52.21
Nathan Pile
Just like ah James and John here who want to, you know, do God's ministry. I don't feel that I have the place um that I want to bring down, rain down fire.

25:03.14
Nathan Pile
But that I have that same um

25:08.67
Nathan Pile
the desire to um be helping lead the way as James and John that I've gone too far. And so what does that look like um in the midst of living in the way and in the midst of following um and and going about that? So I think this passage reminds me to, to to yes, there can be challenges to lie to living in the ministry, living and doing the work of God.

25:43.20
Nathan Pile
um of ministry in at camp specifically. Um, I have a tendency that if it's not, the especially these months that are summer camp, if they're, if it's not directly tied to summer camp, it becomes a, um, it takes a back, it's on the back burner for me.

26:01.45
Nathan Pile
It's on, you know, get to it when I get to it kind of a thing.

26:01.61
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

26:04.50
Nathan Pile
Um, And that's not always good either. yeah You know, there's there's people here that can lead and do and accomplish what needs to be accomplished at camp.

26:15.45
Nathan Pile
um

26:18.68
Nathan Pile
So, but also wanting to make sure we create the experience that that we're trying that we're seeking to create is important. So um how do I how do I do that?

26:33.38
Nathan Pile
recognizing there's hard things to do in the midst of, of doing ministry, but also not doing it to the extent that I'm, uh, that I have some complaint of, yeah, Jesus, I'll, I'll follow, just give me a day to recover and then let's go do this thing.

26:50.78
Nathan Pile
Um, because it's similar to these other, these other would be followers that, um,

26:52.15
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

26:58.13
Nathan Pile
my agenda is first and yours is yours is kind of a thing um and so i like the way you said in the first question Jesus has this laser focus the end is getting close and there's this laser focus to get to the end to see that goal out in front um to to plow a straight row um so how do I

27:01.13
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

27:22.16
Nathan Pile
how do I make sure it's about Jesus's way and not my way? And so this passage feels like it calls me towards that recognizing there's hard work that has to happen. There's, there is sacrifice that happens.

27:34.52
Nathan Pile
Um, but that it's not the way Nathan wants it to be. It's more about what's the loving, what's the loving way that God would want this to be.

27:49.47
Nathan Pile
Um, taken to completion. So, so now that would be where I would feel called, called towards in this passage.

28:00.89
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend?

28:03.44
Kevin Shock
Well, um I like I guess it's somewhat related to you or something that really ah caught my attention when I was reading through it the second time was um the man who wants to first bury his father.

28:19.56
Kevin Shock
Jesus, the encounter is Jesus says, follow me. The man says, let let me first go and bury my father. um Jesus' response is, let the dead bury their own dead. But as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.

28:33.63
Kevin Shock
which is not a response to anything that the man says, or at least it doesn't sound like it.

28:39.75
Nathan Pile
right no

28:40.50
Kevin Shock
um Jesus does not say, let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, you need to come and follow me. He doesn't say that. he did The first request is follow me. um

28:51.22
Kevin Shock
And he also doesn't tell the man, you can't go bury your father. What he tells the man is where you go, essentially, proclaim the kingdom of God.

29:02.01
Nathan Pile
the good yeah

29:04.31
Kevin Shock
So I think that there's, ah I think it does sound harsh. It sounds harsh on first reading, but I think that there's also a chance of that you can both bury your father and proclaim the kingdom of God.

29:18.73
Nathan Pile
Oh, sure.

29:18.99
Kevin Shock
In fact, you can be proclaiming the kingdom of God when you're burying your father.

29:23.61
Nathan Pile
sure

29:24.06
Kevin Shock
um And, ah you know, we have, ah

29:31.70
Kevin Shock
in in our profession, And amongst, and I will say amongst certain people in our profession, because I hear more, um not being ageist or racist here, but I hear more white, old white men talking about this than anybody else.

29:48.15
Kevin Shock
But maybe it's because when, when the oldest white men were pastors, only white men were pastors in our denomination.

29:55.99
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

29:57.20
Kevin Shock
Um, um But I I hear them sometimes say, I heard a colleague, a retired, um now gone, but a retired colleague say one time, we've all worked an 80 hour week. And my first thought was, I have never worked an 80 hour week.

30:15.07
Kevin Shock
ah At some point, you have to say no for the sake of yourself. And frankly, for the sake of good proclamation of the kingdom.

30:25.89
Kevin Shock
If you're stepping into the pulpit, after working, after exhausting yourself for 80 hours that week, your sermon's gonna be pretty bad, I think.

30:38.33
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

30:40.58
Kevin Shock
You're gonna be tired, you're gonna be unfocused. I mean, i that's, I don't know, maybe maybe umm maybe I'm of a lesser mettle than that person was, but um I just think,

30:55.96
Kevin Shock
Now, we all we all have we all have certain weeks or or months or whatever, it seasons, that we are called in particular ways to do a lot, to accomplish a lot.

31:09.40
Nathan Pile
sure

31:11.21
Kevin Shock
I mean, you know you have you have camp every summer, Nathan. that's I know that you you probably do work 80-hour weeks because you're like, because you you live in the place where you work.

31:20.43
Nathan Pile
We're at it. Seven days a week. Yeah. Seven days a week.

31:24.50
Kevin Shock
and There are people there 24 hours a day.

31:25.22
Nathan Pile
and

31:27.39
Kevin Shock
So, so although you might not be like digging ditches 80 hours a week, I know that you're engaged in the work that you're doing for a long time.

31:27.76
Nathan Pile
Yep.

31:35.54
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

31:36.47
Kevin Shock
Um, I, I think that's different than what this person was talking about. Uh, but I, ah I think that when we get that

31:50.87
Kevin Shock
engulfed in what we're doing, it's easy for us who are in ministry, I'll say that, and to to confuse the things that we are doing because we want to do them or we have some ulterior motive for doing them with actually doing ministry.

32:09.08
Kevin Shock
I think it's very possible that there are things that we do that do not proclaim the kingdom of God. And we think that they are because, you know, ah as a pastor, I could, I could make the assumption that everything I do proclaims the kingdom of God just by nature of me being a pastor.

32:25.49
Nathan Pile
Sure.

32:27.79
Kevin Shock
But I know that that's not true.

32:28.63
Nathan Pile
Okay.

32:31.46
Kevin Shock
I, I know in my heart of hearts, that is not true. Um, so I think the to get, I don't know if I said it explicitly, but to the long, long answer to the short version of my long, long answer is um

32:49.60
Kevin Shock
I'm feeling called toward proclaiming the kingdom of God, wherever I go and whatever I do.

32:57.33
Kevin Shock
And, and that might be at home with my spouse and my dogs. It might be when I'm visiting with a friend. It certainly is going to be when I go to a church meeting, it's going to be whenever I step into a pulpit.

33:09.74
Kevin Shock
Um, but to make sure I'm doing that, whatever I'm doing.

33:16.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

33:17.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Nice. and and And I appreciate the um kind of going back and and helping us hear that text. again because the one just before it says follow me and the response to the man who wants to bury his fathers that it's not the same response it's a a response that leaves leaves for some openness of of the son who is in that moment and so recognizing for all of us that Jesus isn't saying you know don't don't do this thing just where you go share the good news um

33:36.22
Kevin Shock
No.

33:41.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

33:52.36
Kevin Shock
he Yeah. yeah And, and it's, it's an echo of, i'm I'm not sure in which gospel again, or where it falls exactly, but the, but the the demoniac the the Gerasene demoniac, demoniac.

34:06.38
Kevin Shock
um after Jesus frees him from his possession, ah he says, I I he tells Jesus, I want to come with you. And Jesus says, go back to where you came from and tell everyone the good news you've received.

34:20.20
Nathan Pile
tell them yeah yep

34:21.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

34:26.19
Nathan Pile
yep

34:26.76
Kevin Shock
I think that that's, I think that's important for us to hear that good news. We don't have to hold a particular, Being a particular profession or hold a particular position in order to proclaim good news, we can do it wherever we are. and whoever we are.

34:52.17
Kevin Shock
Okay, third time.

34:52.86
Nathan Pile
All right, let's do it a third time. Yeah.

34:56.57
Nathan Pile
When the days drew near for him to be taken up, he set his face to go to Jerusalem and he sent messengers ahead of him. on their way they On their way, they entered a village of the Samaritans to prepare for his arrival, but they did not receive him because his face was set toward Jerusalem.

35:17.24
Nathan Pile
When his disciples, James and John, saw this, they said, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? But he turned and rebuked them every time.

35:25.60
Kevin Shock
okay

35:28.76
Nathan Pile
then they

35:28.99
Kevin Shock
It doesn't sound any less absurd the more you read it.

35:31.48
Nathan Pile
yeah nope Then they went to another village. As they were going along the road, someone said to him, I will follow you wherever you go. And Jesus said to him, foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head.

35:49.05
Nathan Pile
To another, he said, follow me. But he said, Lord, first let me go and bury my father. And Jesus said to him, let the dead bury their own dead.

36:00.75
Nathan Pile
But as for you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God. Another said, I will follow you. Lord, but let me first say farewell to those at my home.

36:12.06
Nathan Pile
And Jesus said to him, no one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God.

36:20.65
Nathan Pile
Kevin, um what gets you off course?

36:25.74
Kevin Shock
Oh, I, lots of stuff. Um,

36:31.63
Kevin Shock
stress and anxiety get me off course. Um, because I get so easily distracted whenever that's, whenever I'm feeling those things.

36:34.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

36:40.40
Kevin Shock
Um, I, if I had my hand on a plow, I'd be looking back.

36:44.32
Kevin Shock
I'd be looking ahead. I'd be looking left. I'd be looking right. I've been, yeah. Um,

36:51.87
Kevin Shock
I, I think I've gotten better in my lifetime,

36:56.75
Kevin Shock
at telling the figuring out the difference of what is actually ministry versus

37:07.85
Kevin Shock
what is either my my own response well my response to to the needs of human beings or, or the will of human beings or my own will.

37:25.99
Kevin Shock
I think I've gotten better at that. Um, I'm not perfect at it. I still act like a human being a lot.

37:36.49
Kevin Shock
I mean, ah no, I should say, I mean, of course act like a human being. I act like a human being all the time. Um, what I mean is I set my mind on human things a lot.

37:45.96
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah.

37:46.44
Kevin Shock
Um,

37:46.56
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

37:48.73
Kevin Shock
but when it comes to my ministry I think I'm better at not setting my mind on human things but but exactly what i talked about earlier the difficulty there is that that is not that's not an easier life it it's fine for me like I I don't I don't have a problem truth telling um or saying no to certain things but other people might have a problem with me doing that because I might be telling them that they need to go and invite people into their congregation or they need to go out and serve their community. And it's not, it's not always a popular thing to hear.

38:27.45
Kevin Shock
I I wish I've been at this a while now. I wish I would, I wish I um would, would have known what I know now when I was in my first call.

38:41.22
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

38:42.29
Kevin Shock
Um, but, but, but I don't, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it because you can't go back. So,

38:48.19
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure.

38:50.74
Kevin Shock
no. So I, I think it's mostly stress and anxiety, but, um, but sometimes it is just, I, I'm, I'm throwing a tantrum and I want to get my own way.

39:02.09
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and um to be honest, as as I look at that question, I think the same things. What cuts me off, of course, is Nathan.

39:15.10
Kevin Shock
yeah Boy, that's your answer to a lot of our third questions.

39:15.86
Nathan Pile
Yeah. It is, it is.

39:19.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

39:19.53
Nathan Pile
um But it is but because I do think think it's all of the things that you said. It's, it's you know, but sometimes I just want what I want. um I want the vision of of what I seek um to be the way. and and And if I get tired or if I get stressed, it it becomes even more so.

39:46.57
Nathan Pile
about what I want. um

39:51.63
Nathan Pile
Because I I think it goes back to your earlier comment that, you know, and the thing that would be easiest is if everybody just adopted what my way of doing this is, is the way to do it.

40:04.98
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

40:05.14
Nathan Pile
If I'm tired, just listen to me. I'm I'm the executive director. Just do it the way I want it done.

40:10.68
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

40:11.16
Nathan Pile
um

40:11.31
Kevin Shock
Boy, yeah.

40:11.91
Nathan Pile
You know, we were yesterday, we took the the staff a day off and we took the staff and went and paddled the middle yawk. And of course I took my daughter along and she wanted to be in her own boat. And so she was not listening to me. And I just started screaming from my boat to her boat.

40:28.49
Nathan Pile
Just listen to me and paddle. Yeah.

40:31.55
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

40:32.40
Nathan Pile
And so today we were talking about that. And she's like, I just don't do well when you start to scream at me. And I was like, yeah, but you weren't listening to me. And, you know, I get, yes, I raised my voice.

40:41.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

40:42.73
Nathan Pile
to A, we were in in a set of rapids and I was trying to get her to hear me. and But I'm sure she felt like I was screaming at her. And I also felt like she wasn't listening to me. So we talked about that.

40:53.75
Nathan Pile
But yeah so there's that piece of, all at least for me, that's ah that's pretty common that if I don't feel like you're listening to me,

40:54.48
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

41:00.42
Nathan Pile
you know, what happens is I raise my voice and I just shout louder. Um, I don't try to change or communicate differently what i want you to do. and And that's true, especially true when I'm stressed or tired or, um, like I'm, I'm not thinking as clearly.

41:10.98
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

41:18.32
Nathan Pile
And so it becomes, um, just my way. So the thing that gets me off course is me. Um, Because as a father, I don't intend to scream at my daughter. I want her to know that she's loved and I want her to be safe and and all of those things. And of course, part of me is like, we're in a what whitewater rapid. And so I want you to paddle so that you're safe.

41:41.04
Nathan Pile
But my response to that is paddle, and screaming at the top of my lung.

41:41.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

41:45.09
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

41:47.63
Nathan Pile
So, you know, so, so all of, but all of that is, is a piece of,

41:48.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

41:54.62
Nathan Pile
um of a piece of me. And so there's stress, there's anxiety in that. And so that's what can lead me off course to Nathan's way of doing things.

42:07.01
Nathan Pile
Um, because it's the easy thing in my head, in my head, in that moment, even though it's not maybe the easiest thing for the other person or people. Um, there's that, that, um,

42:23.06
Nathan Pile
ah behavior or habit of my way is the best way. And, and when I'm at my best, I'm able to hear lots of voices and opinions and then together with the group, make a decision to move in a direction.

42:38.42
Nathan Pile
Um, but when, you know, when that, when I'm not at my best, like at an end of a summer, I'm just kind of like, just do it, do it the way I've asked you to do it. Just go do it.

42:52.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

42:52.42
Nathan Pile
Um, you know, cause I'm not at my best. And I know I'm not at like, as soon as I've said it and they've walked out of the office, I'm kind of like, I'm not at my best. I need to go make a, make, make amends for that.

43:01.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I know. I know

43:05.71
Nathan Pile
And so, but there's, there's also things like when I'm tired, anything can get me like, ah let's watch that movie. And it might've been just like a sub standard movie. And that's a reason why I hadn't watched it yet.

43:18.75
Nathan Pile
But like, Oh, I could, I could watch that today.

43:25.09
Nathan Pile
So so there's there's... But that's still a part of that tired piece for me of anything can get me off course. Like, anything shiny could be put in front of me, and I'd be like, ooh, what's that I all about?

43:41.74
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, yeah, there's that too. Yeah, no, when you say that, that, gosh, yes.

43:44.82
Nathan Pile
so

43:50.08
Kevin Shock
I, especially if there's, if, if there is stuff that's stressing me out that I could avoid by doing something else, I'd do the other thing.

43:57.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

44:01.78
Nathan Pile
Like I, every season, it seems like every summer, I should say every summer season, it seems like I have a different game that's on my iPad. And so usually at the end of, cause I get bored with it. Right. And so that I stopped playing it at some point in the fall.

44:15.89
Nathan Pile
And then I don't play a game for most of the season.

44:18.01
Nathan Pile
I'll read a book or something like that right before I get ready to go to bed.

44:19.10
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

44:21.34
Nathan Pile
And then as as things ramp up, I find another game and then I kind of start to play the game a little bit. and And so like anytime I'm looking for just mindless do nothing, I start to play this game and and or whatever the game is for the year.

44:35.48
Nathan Pile
And so I have a new game this year. Right. And so like. you know, I'm like, I just want to go to the house and lay down and play my game.

44:44.58
Nathan Pile
But like the game doesn't do anything for me. Like I know come August, I'll be tired of this game.

44:49.07
Kevin Shock
No.

44:52.24
Nathan Pile
Like I know it.

44:52.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

44:53.18
Nathan Pile
but And I'll be like, it's so dumb.

44:55.82
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:58.03
Nathan Pile
I'm out. And so like, I'll leave the game. Um, like I've left, uh, you know, 10 other games in the, in 10 years. But, uh, so that just like, it's almost like something that allows me to shift my mind can get me off course.

45:06.62
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

45:14.38
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and stress has a, a part of, is a part of that, you know, um, when there isn't a, when it's not a high stress time, or if it's not an 80 hour week season, um, I'm, I'm better at being able to monitor or control that self self-regulate myself but when i get into this kind of a season like if i get home i'm just kind of like yeah i'm content to go you know it's eight o'clock at in the evening like it's rare for me to get home at eight o'clock but like on a Saturday uh if I get home ah I'm content to go lay down and just play my video yeah this game on my ipad for an hour or till I get tired and go to sleep at nine o'clock yeah that sounds okay um

45:46.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:53.84
Kevin Shock
yeah

46:00.44
Nathan Pile
So, and so I think that the idea of what gets me off course, um, is that it's that stress it's tired, being tired, it's anxiety in the system.

46:12.79
Nathan Pile
Um, and I'm much more susceptible to be pulled off course by anything at that moment in time. Um, as opposed to other times of the year where I ah have a little bit more, um,

46:30.32
Nathan Pile
bandwidth for self-control maybe it is um

46:33.56
Kevin Shock
That's a good way to put it. Yeah.

46:35.60
Nathan Pile
ah um because like it's not like playing the video game or playing this little game isn't um like it just is a time suck like that's the thing that it's a right it's just it becomes a ah it becomes a distraction that I don't have to worry about what's next and and we probably all need

46:36.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah. ah

46:44.07
Kevin Shock
Right. Right. It's not, it's not necessarily harmful to anyone or anything. It just, yeah.

47:02.02
Nathan Pile
off off course time, you know, to be time to be away from and and off course.

47:05.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, yeah, except I'm...

47:07.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

47:09.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah, except I really do think that sometimes... um I mean, I'm all for self-care. I I think that sometimes people... think that self-care is just ah is is just like while in time away on a game on your iPhone or something like that, um which it it can be.

47:29.07
Nathan Pile
yeah

47:31.19
Kevin Shock
But I think that there are things that we can be engaged in that are good for the life of the community and and and and good for us at the same time.

47:41.39
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

47:42.75
Kevin Shock
ah Things that can be restful, but also... life-giving.

47:50.41
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

47:51.22
Kevin Shock
And, um, and yeah, I know I recognize that different people have different needs and that's, and yes, that's, that's fine. Uh, but I think that we all, we live in a world where we have so many things that are, let's be honest, that are created to distract us.

48:10.43
Nathan Pile
yeah

48:11.47
Kevin Shock
And, um,

48:14.90
Kevin Shock
there if we were able to be a little bit more thoughtful about it we might find things that are that are really life-giving to us and even restful to us that still to use what Jesus says here is that still proclaim the kingdom of god yeah so yeah it's g again it's that man it's that whole like suck toward easier

48:44.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

48:44.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I um sure, I could I could I could do something that's going to be really life-giving for me that might take a little bit of thought, but oh yeah, I can just open up New York Times games and do Wordle for half hour.

48:45.05
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

48:57.81
Nathan Pile
Right. All right.

48:59.33
Kevin Shock
Not do multiple Wordles for half hour. No, even close. Oh gosh.

49:02.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah, you wouldn't take you a half an hour to do a Wordle.

49:02.73
Kevin Shock
Oh. no no not even close oh my gosh

49:05.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah, you're so gifted. um

49:13.26
Kevin Shock
ah

49:14.23
Nathan Pile
Kevin plays for me, everybody. Plays Wordle for me. I'm I'm much more of a strategy game person. um

49:21.45
Kevin Shock
Well, see, and that's, yeah, I can't ah can't think.

49:21.52
Nathan Pile
But he likes that Wordle. likes that Wordle. like

49:26.51
Kevin Shock
you know They say like every good chess player is thinking six ah turns ahead. I can't do it. I cannot do it.

49:33.48
Nathan Pile
if Hey.

49:34.38
Kevin Shock
I can think of the next best possible turn, but I can't think of anything beyond that. That's why I have to look to the end of the row in order to mow straight, because otherwise I'm focused on that blade of grass right in front of me.

49:49.78
Nathan Pile
yeah

49:51.31
Kevin Shock
Oh my. Okay. Well, anything else, Nathan?

49:54.29
Nathan Pile
No.

49:55.90
Kevin Shock
All right. Why don't we look at our additional...

49:58.07
Nathan Pile
I would just, I would just say everybody, we all just, you know, The challenge of being off course. um Scripture always finds a way to help me

50:13.00
Nathan Pile
get back on course.

50:15.50
Kevin Shock
yeah Right. Right. Yes. Right. No, in fact...

50:18.70
Nathan Pile
don't Don't beat yourself up. Don't beat yourself up when you go off course. Don't beat, you know, and and sometimes we do need to be, to right our ship. but Absolutely. There's times that I'm like, oh crap, I got to get, I have to change the way I'm doing something.

50:27.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

50:32.23
Nathan Pile
um Give ourselves a little bit of grace, forgiveness, and then, and and and use scripture to help us do that, to help us get back on course.

50:43.11
Kevin Shock
be Yeah. I mean, you know, Nathan, you and I have talked.

50:48.15
Kevin Shock
Multiple, more, almost every time we gather together, how important this time is for us.

50:53.37
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah

50:53.56
Kevin Shock
And, and this is a time that like, we, you know, we do some preparation, we have to make time to do it, but it's something that we know we have heard that it is helpful to other people.

51:05.72
Kevin Shock
And it also, I feel renewed after every time we do this.

51:10.10
Nathan Pile
absolutely.

51:10.25
Kevin Shock
So better than ah better than getting on my phone for a half hour. It would be better for me to call you and say, Hey, do you have 15 minutes today where we can just talk through a text?

51:20.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

51:21.28
Kevin Shock
I mean, honestly, but, that but that takes time and effort and thought and, and then we have to coordinate schedules and things like that.

51:25.12
Nathan Pile
It does.

51:27.22
Kevin Shock
So, yeah, but well, it it is, it is, but this is, um but I mean, this is a good example of one thing that takes some time and thought, but is also,

51:27.54
Nathan Pile
And that's where we go off the tracks.

51:39.79
Kevin Shock
good and restful and life-giving.

51:40.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

51:43.25
Kevin Shock
So, yeah.

51:43.96
Nathan Pile
Yep.

51:45.87
Kevin Shock
Okay. Well, um some additional texts for this week. If you if you you if you need another 15 minutes to call a friend and ask to talk through a text, here's some texts you can do that with.

51:55.85
Nathan Pile
There we go. There we go.

51:57.61
Kevin Shock
1 Kings chapter 19 verses 15 to 16 and 19 through 21, or you can just read the whole thing, 15 through 21. Elijah says to Elisha, follow me,

52:09.53
Kevin Shock
and do not continue plowing. That's an interesting story. Yeah. Not only does Elisha give up his plow, but he goes back and he sacrifices all the animals too.

52:19.86
Kevin Shock
So there's not even, he won't, he won't have the opportunity to look back.

52:22.65
Nathan Pile
no There's no going back.

52:24.26
Kevin Shock
He won't even have the opportunity to look back.

52:24.77
Nathan Pile
There's no going back.

52:26.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Uh, Psalm 16, I have set the Lord always before me, ah Galatians one and 13 25. to twenty five Love is the whole law, the gift of the spirit.

52:39.72
Kevin Shock
and that's We talked about that in last week's podcast. That's the line 5.1 is the for freedom Christ has set us free. And then ah go the later verses talk about the fruits of the spirit and what what keeps us distracted and what um what God brings forth in us when we're not distracted.

53:00.87
Kevin Shock
I almost chose that text, but then I thought, I don't want to get into a Galatians rep. And then the semi-continuous readings also are talking about Elijah and Elisha this week. 2 Kings 2, verses 1-2 and Elijah ascends into heaven in whirlwind. then Psalm 77, verses 1-2 By your strength you have redeemed your people.

53:20.28
Kevin Shock
and then psalm seventy seven versus one through two and eleven through twenty by your strength you have redeemed your people Well, Nathan, as always, life-giving reflections. i appreciate it.

53:32.09
Kevin Shock
And we hope, friends, that our reflections have been life-giving to you. And we always look forward to hearing your reflections on these texts as well. We hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

53:43.60
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

53:45.12
Nathan Pile
And peace.