Episode 37: Isaiah 66:10-14

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What brings you consolation?

Additional texts:

Psalm 66:1-9

Galatians 6:1-16

Luke 10:1-11, 16-20

2 Kings 5:1-14

Psalm 30

Transcript

00:01.39
Nathan Pile
Kevin, it's a great day to rejoice, to celebrate, to, um, just love the world that we're in and then read scripture.

00:09.93
Kevin Shock
Play. Mm-hmm.

00:15.19
Nathan Pile
Um, uh, I say all of that because our scripture does tell us to celebrate, um, today.

00:22.23
Nathan Pile
So, um, so whatever, wherever you're at, um, make a joyful noise to the Lord. And, um, because today is the day that the Lord has made, put a couple, put a couple of Psalms together there.

00:37.42
Nathan Pile
So for that little ditty. So, uh, so hopefully you're singing those songs the rest of the day in your head, Kevin. Um, this is the day, this is the day that the Lord has made.

00:48.52
Kevin Shock
It's all there. It's all there.

00:49.38
Nathan Pile
That's all right, baby. Yeah.

00:50.64
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:50.74
Nathan Pile
Go, go and celebrate. So, uh, you're well, my friend.

00:53.20
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yes.

00:56.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah, anything Anything in particular you're celebrating today?

00:56.71
Kevin Shock
Yes, I am. Thank you.

01:02.75
Kevin Shock
I'm ah nothing. no no, no. Nothing I'm not embarrassed to admit. My um my e- my ah unread email count is currently at zero, so I'm so i'm celebrating that.

01:12.30
Nathan Pile
ah Wow. There you go.

01:16.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:18.19
Nathan Pile
That's something.

01:18.81
Kevin Shock
It does not, it it doesn't, well, it doesn't mean that there aren't like hundreds of emails that I need to respond to, but the unread ones are zero.

01:18.87
Nathan Pile
Mine's not even close. I'm in I mean the thousands.

01:29.33
Kevin Shock
So, and um I'm, ah yesterday I spent ah more time than I thought I would have to ah putting together some

01:29.67
Nathan Pile
No, that's nice. Oh.

01:41.95
Kevin Shock
Like, uh, what's that? What's, what's the out outdoor material? That's, uh, like plastic, but you know what I'm talking about? Like the durable weatherproof material.

01:53.51
Nathan Pile
Oh.

01:53.61
Kevin Shock
I can't think of what it's called.

01:54.03
Nathan Pile
Like you made a bench or something out of it?

01:56.27
Kevin Shock
Well, I made two rocking chairs. Yeah.

01:58.43
Nathan Pile
Two rocking chairs.

01:59.37
Kevin Shock
Well, I assembled them.

01:59.47
Nathan Pile
Very nice.

02:00.94
Kevin Shock
I, it said, it said some assembly required, and then it said assembly time, 25 minutes.

02:01.39
Nathan Pile
Oh, sure.

02:07.24
Kevin Shock
And then I definitely am thankful. I went and got my electric driver. Uh, because even with that, it took me about an hour to do the first one.

02:17.20
Kevin Shock
The second one took, it got faster and my back hurt by the time it was done because it was an awkward, you know, like bending over and things like that.

02:17.67
Nathan Pile
Second one got a little bit faster. Got a little bit faster. Hmm.

02:25.51
Kevin Shock
Um, but, uh, but now Lisa and I or, and or one of us and another person of our choosing have a nice table and two rocking chairs out on the front porch that we can, we have a place to sit, even if it's raining.

02:26.31
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

02:38.87
Nathan Pile
Nice.

02:40.63
Kevin Shock
So I, uh,

02:41.46
Nathan Pile
So did you go with ah an actual rocker or is this a glider rocker?

02:45.91
Kevin Shock
No, these are two. we We had talked about getting like a glider rocker, but these are but then Lisa found these two chairs on clearance. So they're two individual rocking chairs.

02:56.76
Nathan Pile
oh There we go.

02:59.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

03:00.09
Nathan Pile
Okay. Very nice.

03:01.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

03:02.12
Nathan Pile
Very nice. that's Well, that's two things to celebrate. You got a lot going on then.

03:04.71
Kevin Shock
it it I I really do.

03:06.43
Nathan Pile
They got a lot they got a lot going on.

03:06.50
Kevin Shock
I really do. I'm looking. I have a I have a ah neighbor friend coming over tonight to sit out on the porch and have a drink, and I'm looking forward to it.

03:15.83
Nathan Pile
Nice. Excellent.

03:16.93
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

03:18.40
Nathan Pile
um And um yeah, so let's ah get into this here. We got um Isaiah, the 66th chapter of Isaiah, verses 10 to 14 is what Kevin and I are going to read today. We're going to read from the Common English Bible, the CEB.

03:35.66
Nathan Pile
um translation, Kevin's new favorite translation.

03:40.15
Kevin Shock
yeah

03:40.38
Nathan Pile
um And as always, our three questions, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text toward what is God calling you in this text? And a third question, what brings you consolation? Yeah.

03:55.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

03:58.61
Kevin Shock
That's right. What brings you consolation?

04:01.19
Nathan Pile
yeah

04:01.93
Kevin Shock
The, ah as we begin some information as always about your hosts, uh, we are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age college and seminary educated.

04:15.72
Kevin Shock
We work in Lutheran church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

04:26.68
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of Scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

04:38.76
Kevin Shock
ah As Nathan said, Isaiah 66 from the Common English Bible.

04:46.43
Kevin Shock
Rejoice with Jerusalem. Be happy with her, all you who love her. Rejoice with her in joy, all you who mourn over her, so that you may nurse and be satisfied from her comforting breasts, that you may drink and be refreshed from her full breasts.

05:02.70
Kevin Shock
The Lord says, Look, I'm extending prosperity to her like a river and the wealth of nations like an overflowing stream. You will nurse and be carried on the hip and bounced upon the knee.

05:13.58
Kevin Shock
As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you. In Jerusalem you will be comforted. When you see this, your heart will rejoice, your entire being will flourish like grass. The Lord's power will be known among his servants,

05:28.05
Kevin Shock
but his fury among his enemies. If you are meeting with a group or with another person you can pause the podcast and ask the questions of each other. Nathan, what word phrases or image strikes you in this text?

05:44.61
Nathan Pile
Um, well, it obviously is for me, it's the imagery of all of the, um infant language, um, here and things that would be about somebody caring or comforting, essentially,

06:01.74
Nathan Pile
baby Israel, um, and Jerusalem, Jerusalem being the capital, um,

06:06.78
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Yeah, it's a...

06:12.00
Nathan Pile
Kevin, can you, like, the the the the all of this has um some meaning to me. And this is the 66th chapter. And I think, if I recall 20 years ago when I was in seminary, we have two Isaiahs.

06:29.11
Nathan Pile
And is this, three Isaiahs, right.

06:29.58
Kevin Shock
Three.

06:31.92
Nathan Pile
Three Isaiahs. Is this second Isaiah?

06:34.99
Kevin Shock
This is third...

06:36.00
Nathan Pile
Third Isaiah. Yeah.

06:37.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah, this is the this is the very last chapter of Isaiah.

06:40.95
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So, oh, yeah, that would make sense. And it's going to be three. Yeah. So, um

06:48.94
Nathan Pile
and so that helps me make sense of this passage.

06:52.89
Kevin Shock
can you um Can you tell our listeners what you mean when you say you have we have three Isaiahs? Because in all of their Bibles, there's only one book of Isaiah.

06:58.59
Nathan Pile
I...

07:03.59
Nathan Pile
So um Isaiah is not a place where I continue to play a lot. um But what I mean by three Isaiahs is that we, um the ah

07:17.70
Nathan Pile
I don't even know if it's mostly, if it's all denominations, at at least mainline denominations, because we critically look at the Bible um in a different way than some of our um siblings um in Christ. And so because we look at it a little bit more critically, um the recognition and the things that that we...

07:36.76
Nathan Pile
ah the recognition about the Isaiah text that gets passed on and taught in our seminaries is that there's three different authors of Isaiah um ah covering three time periods um of which the people of Israel are living in, in different circumstances. And because they're so different,

08:00.59
Nathan Pile
It does the, is it, I don't know, is it, I would I would call it a hypothesis, um but maybe, ah because we don't use the, I'm a biologist also, folks, as a reminder.

08:14.66
Nathan Pile
And so I use a ah science lens um when I talk about these things. um And so a hypothesis is something that we, um put out there as we think that that this might be the right thing.

08:26.77
Nathan Pile
Um, and if it, if a hypothesis gets tested long enough, um, it becomes, what's the word I'm looking for now? It's left me. Um,

08:39.27
Kevin Shock
It's a theory.

08:40.53
Nathan Pile
a theory, that's the word. Thanks buddy.

08:42.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

08:42.87
Nathan Pile
It becomes a theory. And so is this a theory or a hypothesis? I, that part, I don't know. Um, in the, in the biblical world,

08:48.99
Kevin Shock
I don't know. I you're You're going much more in depth than I would would have. I would just have would have said many scholars believe and then gone on from there.

09:00.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah, like there are people that spend their whole, yeah, but they're, well, you said explain it.

09:01.04
Kevin Shock
Because that makes me sound smart, but I don't really know.

09:05.10
Nathan Pile
So I'm trying to explain it.

09:06.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

09:06.40
Nathan Pile
um I want people to be able to dig into the minutia. That's why you and I did this from the beginning. So, um and so, so there's many scholars believe as Kevin would say, but they're there.

09:11.88
Kevin Shock
That's right. That's right.

09:18.22
Nathan Pile
So whether it's a theory or an hypo hypo hypothesis at this point, I think it has to be a hypothesis. There's no way that we can actually prove this. though in science really we can't really prove things either so but um right

09:27.23
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, I mean, well, arch archaeology has shown us a lot of things that is why, ah why historical critical biblical interpreters um understand a lot of things that we didn't 100 years ago.

09:41.93
Nathan Pile
we didn't understand right yeah and and so all of that helps us change the lens on these passages and so there are three Isaiah's um

09:44.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

09:56.41
Nathan Pile
because of, uh, again, um, they're human beings that write these, um, inspired by God texts that get written down and, and are a part of God's word for, for the community.

10:12.32
Nathan Pile
But the reality that one person would have lived through all three of these time periods is impossible.

10:19.64
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

10:19.66
Nathan Pile
Um, and so, so I, Isaiah, um, has these three, three distinct pieces. And so when I say ah second Isaiah or third Isaiah, it's not that um maybe the author's name was also Isaiah, um but they got added on to the book of Isaiah.

10:39.23
Nathan Pile
And so, um so there's three books in, in our Bibles, when it says the book of Isaiah, there's the, there's actually three different time periods being wrestled with and three, therefore three, three different authors.

10:52.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

10:55.21
Kevin Shock
and And I think it's important to say, too, that this ah these aren't just like willy-nilly snatched out of the air. this is um These are people like, okay, so also in the New Testament, we have um what what the paul Pauline letters, the letters written by Paul, but we also have letters that we call pseudo-Paul.

11:16.90
Nathan Pile
right

11:17.46
Kevin Shock
ah because we now know because of archaeological discoveries and such that Paul probably some of the letters that were written originally attributed to Paul, he probably did not actually write, but were written by ah a disciple of his or someone in his school of thought.

11:35.62
Nathan Pile
Correct. Yeah.

11:37.10
Kevin Shock
So so the same goes with Isaiah.

11:37.49
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

11:39.26
Kevin Shock
even if Even if the prophet Isaiah did not write all of this stuff down, it were it was all people who were a part of his school of thought or or it in the in the same line of prophets as he was.

11:50.68
Kevin Shock
So it's not as though people were trying to confuse or, or, um, yeah mislead those who were reading.

12:01.81
Kevin Shock
It's just that this is this, this is the reality of ancient authorship.

12:07.35
Nathan Pile
Ancient texts. Yeah.

12:08.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

12:08.66
Nathan Pile
Ancient texts.

12:08.96
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

12:09.60
Nathan Pile
They didn't think there was any problem with continuing the story of Isaiah.

12:10.12
Kevin Shock
Yep.

12:12.37
Kevin Shock
No, no.

12:13.46
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:13.52
Kevin Shock
Right. Right. Right. And it's not, it's not, we wouldn't call it plagiarism. It's just, it's right. It was right.

12:20.17
Nathan Pile
They're continuing God's story. um Again, that's a view of the, of the first Testament that is a little bit different than our historical lens today.

12:22.46
Kevin Shock
Right.

12:29.63
Nathan Pile
We want to know who wrote it and, and put authorship to, to those pieces, but it's not always as clear as we want it to be.

12:34.72
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

12:38.33
Nathan Pile
an And again, some of the other study of other disciplines, archeology and, and, um and cultural history and, and, um, art anthropology and probably even psychology all has all gotten wrapped up in helping us to better be able to critically look at scripture.

13:02.47
Nathan Pile
um And so because we we do do that in our tradition and in the ELCA, um we train our pastors to do that. ah That you know helps to helps us to understand what's happening here in this third author of Isaiah.

13:21.85
Nathan Pile
and And specifically what's happening is um but we're looking for some hope. That's a long way.

13:28.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

13:29.86
Nathan Pile
That's ah it's there's a 12-minute description to get to the sentence of what's happening is is that the prophet, the author here, is trying to provide hope for the people of Israel, God's people.

13:45.05
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yep.

13:46.99
Nathan Pile
And so this idea of God's going to care for us as a mother cares for infant um is, is bring some meaning behind all of that that's happening.

13:59.55
Nathan Pile
So,

14:02.98
Nathan Pile
so what, so, yeah so I, that was my imagery that I picked up on was that, what about you, my friend?

14:10.17
Kevin Shock
the The infant, also the infant imagery, but one one part specifically.

14:12.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

14:16.50
Kevin Shock
um You will nurse and be carried on the hip and bounced up upon the knee. um ah I think that this is a, so this is a,

14:29.81
Kevin Shock
The her in here is, I'm pretty sure, is talking about Jerusalem itself. That God god is going to care for ah for Jerusalem in such a way that Jerusalem will become the mothering figure to the people who are looking for comfort.

14:44.23
Kevin Shock
um But um that it I don't I don't have any memory of being carried on the hip and bounced upon the knee because that all happened before I could start remembering things or, or, you know, or my memories fail of those times. um I think that that, I don't know. There's something,

15:13.62
Kevin Shock
there's just something very comforting, I guess, and and also playful and joyful about being held in that position. Like, well, like we're not, I don't know, as as middle-aged adult people, we don't we don't we no longer have experiences of someone just like just completely holding us and taking care of us unless something is wrong.

15:39.41
Kevin Shock
And that usually distracts us from the from the experience of being

15:43.16
Nathan Pile
yeah

15:46.83
Kevin Shock
um unconditionally cared for. and and I'm And cared for, I mean like physical like our physical needs are being taken care of too.

15:55.01
Nathan Pile
yeah well and and there's that image of um that image of ah of an infant being bounced on on a knee that just makes us happy um Again, small we don't get to see

16:16.41
Nathan Pile
um we don't get to see we don't get to see the Like I can see, I can see a nephew or a niece being bounced on, um, somebody's lap and just that, you know, everything's okay.

16:32.89
Nathan Pile
Everything's all right. And so that imagery there, um, uh, by the author to kind of say, Hey, it's going to be okay.

16:44.32
Nathan Pile
It's going to be okay. Um, I think it's, it's a powerful image. I think, um, Because it does, like it doesn't, this is 3,000 years later, maybe maybe more.

16:49.94
Kevin Shock
You're right. Yeah.

16:55.45
Nathan Pile
and And that image still provides the same kind of hope today as it would have then.

17:03.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah yeah And I, I think even beyond the, um, beyond the physical care, I appreciate the, the, the example that you give because that, ah you know, that's, that's a gift I have as someone who doesn't have children, but has,

17:21.13
Kevin Shock
siblings of children and friend siblings with children and friends with children um you know Lisa and I can we like we can play with the kids and then we can give them back when they start being annoying uh and and so more than just the care like the care is a good thing but um You think about as from an adult perspective, what it is to like, see a kid that you enjoy being around and like horse around with the kid and like, you know, make them laugh and, and be playful with them.

17:53.88
Kevin Shock
it what this puts me in mind of is it allows me to imagine what's it like to be in the child's place in that interaction.

18:02.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yeah

18:04.37
Kevin Shock
Now I can only imagine what it's like to be in the adult place, but to to be a child and to have someone who um who who you know is a safe adult, who wants to spend time with you, who is is making you laugh, who you know is is is messing around with you in such a way that brings you a lot of joy. I like that That's a hard thing. I couldn't tell you the last time that I experienced that feeling exactly.

18:33.66
Kevin Shock
So I like, that's why I like this text, this image in this text.

18:42.63
Nathan Pile
It's powerful. It's a powerful um and and would connect to those who are seeking um seeking comfort, seeking hope um and ah in in a desperate time.

18:59.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

19:01.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:01.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And right. And so, and so therefore it uses language that is, um, is, is odd for, uh, two men to read to each other, at, at times.

19:11.87
Kevin Shock
Um, uh, but, but I, I looked at, I looked at several translations and none none of them get away from it.

19:13.17
Nathan Pile
That's true. That's true. Yeah.

19:20.96
Kevin Shock
So I, you know, the, uh, the NRSVUE I think uses, um,

19:21.63
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure.

19:27.65
Kevin Shock
less explicit language by talking about like, uh, her delightful bosom or something like that. But this, but that's not, it's not the same thing.

19:36.19
Nathan Pile
thats ah Yeah, it's not the same thing either.

19:37.31
Kevin Shock
This is a, this is, this is a mother who has mother's milk for her children who are crying.

19:37.87
Nathan Pile
Sure.

19:43.44
Nathan Pile
Right.

19:44.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:44.35
Nathan Pile
Right.

19:45.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:45.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and and and and the care, you know, key piece of this language is about the care represented by the words.

19:55.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right.

19:56.21
Nathan Pile
um that's That's what the author is writing down it and wanting us all to be able to kind of grasp, oh, this this is the kind of care God has for us.

19:56.74
Kevin Shock
Right.

20:06.96
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

20:07.46
Nathan Pile
We can see it personified um because we've all seen it and experienced it

20:12.93
Kevin Shock
yeah

20:13.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah. All right. Second time through.

20:18.37
Kevin Shock
Yep. Mm-hmm.

20:19.57
Nathan Pile
All right.

20:22.15
Nathan Pile
Celebrate with Jerusalem. Be happy with her. All you who love her. Rejoice with her in joy. All you who mourn over her so that you may nurse and be satisfied from her comforting breasts that you may drink and be refreshed from her full breasts.

20:40.09
Nathan Pile
Amen. The Lord says, look, I'm extending prosperity to her like a river and the wealth of nations like an overflowing stream. You will nurse and be carried on the hip and bounced upon the knee.

20:54.88
Nathan Pile
As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you. In Jerusalem, you will be comforted. When you see this, your heart will rejoice. Your entire being will flourish like grass.

21:08.80
Nathan Pile
The Lord's power will be known among his servants, but his fury among his enemies.

21:19.28
Nathan Pile
Kevin, uh, toward what is god calling you in this text?

21:24.82
Kevin Shock
um I don't...

21:30.19
Kevin Shock
I can't choose between the two, so I'm going to say ah to comfort and to be comforted.

21:40.38
Kevin Shock
I I think I think it's easy it's easy for people... Well, I don't want to say it's easy, but I think it's easier for adult humans to... um to to know what we have to do to comfort somebody else.

21:58.23
Kevin Shock
ah But I don't think we are as open to allowing ourselves to be comforted.

22:03.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

22:05.03
Kevin Shock
And so I hear the text calling me to both.

22:05.09
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

22:09.36
Kevin Shock
It's the easy answer for me to say to comfort other people, right? Because that seems like a good and holy thing to do. But it also, ah the text leans toward being comforted also being a good and holy thing to do.

22:23.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and and it's interesting as I work with um young adults, one of the things that I hear and I I share myself, but that that I hear them also say is how difficult it is to allow others to comfort us.

22:40.73
Nathan Pile
When somebody does something for us, it's harder to accept than,

22:41.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

22:47.87
Nathan Pile
than doing it for somebody else. We're all happy to comfort somebody who's sad or is struggling.

22:53.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

22:54.04
Nathan Pile
But, but when it, when, when we're the, we're the person struggling, um, to be able to accept that comfort and care, um, that is a ah harder, ah harder thing.

22:54.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

23:09.79
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think for me, I can easily name it's because it ah makes it, it makes me feel vulnerable.

23:20.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:21.97
Kevin Shock
Someone, someone has gotten, if someone is comforting me, they've gotten past my defenses.

23:26.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

23:27.69
Kevin Shock
And, um, and I think that I'm astute enough to know that it, um,

23:36.73
Kevin Shock
I should accept it and be thankful for it. And I usually am grateful for it, but also it usually makes me break down if I'm being honest, because because someone has gotten,

23:44.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:48.66
Kevin Shock
ah deep deep into my soul.

23:52.83
Nathan Pile
yeah

23:52.91
Kevin Shock
If they're comforting, if they're comforting me in in a real and honest way. And that, um, that that's difficult for us to swallow when, you know, yeah.

24:01.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I can remember a ah friend, um, showing up when I had my heart attacks, um, and was in the hospital, a friend showing up and bringing communion to, to Angie and I, and, and like, I was pretty okay until then.

24:12.59
Kevin Shock
Oh, yeah, yeah.

24:17.94
Nathan Pile
Um, you know, even though the doctors and nurses and everybody had provided a significant amount of care for me up until that point, um,

24:18.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

24:28.30
Nathan Pile
it was that sharing of that meal and being reminded um that I'm a child of God. It was, but you know, you know I can I I can recalling the memory, I teared up and um and it was that that piece like, oh my defenses are down here um kind of a thing.

24:48.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:49.41
Nathan Pile
So ah is it is, when someone cares for us, um we're we're We're admitting vulnerability, and that's a hard thing in our world.

25:01.55
Nathan Pile
least At least for me. At least for me.

25:04.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

25:04.30
Nathan Pile
So...

25:05.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I am. I know I've shared this story on the podcast before, but I, I, it, it, I think that that, being comforted is in when we, and when we feel vulnerable and it causes us to, you know, like show the, show the chinks in our armor, so to speak. Um, I think it's because we're comforted in a way that we need to be comforted, but that we did not, that we could not name that we needed to be comforted.

25:34.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Right.

25:34.54
Kevin Shock
Um, and so, you know, like, like you said, in the hospital, your, every need was being met, but, um,

25:45.04
Kevin Shock
but there was this need that you had that maybe you didn't even recognize that you had because all of your other, all your physical needs, all, you know, everyone was kind of taking care of you.

25:55.15
Nathan Pile
Right

25:55.24
Kevin Shock
And, and this, this new thing popped up or not a new thing, but ah something that you wouldn't necessarily expect someone in the hospital to do. So this friend came in and, and showed you that you were feeling needy in other ways too, that you didn't, maybe couldn't name or whatever it was.

26:10.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

26:11.45
Kevin Shock
But I, but I think of the time, um During COVID, I know I've shared the experience in here that I oh was able to, a former volunteer at PAWS, her grandfather was dying.

26:25.16
Kevin Shock
And um she she contacted me and said, you know, this is like the priest can't come until the morning. um Do you think you could meet with us over for Zoom just to have some time of prayer?

26:41.05
Kevin Shock
And so I did the commendation for the dying for him. um over Zoom that night. And, and I mean, he, you know, he, he was Roman Catholic, so, but, but it was, it was meaningful enough for them, but that ah in comforting them, you know, I mean, like I held it together.

26:48.49
Nathan Pile
Sure.

27:02.01
Kevin Shock
I because it was, it was emotional, but it wasn't my emotion. I was the one providing the service.

27:07.32
Nathan Pile
Sure.

27:07.87
Kevin Shock
I wasn't one that receiving it.

27:09.56
Nathan Pile
sure

27:09.64
Kevin Shock
um But I, I think I, I know I've shared that part of the reason, not the only reason, but part of the reason I was so eager to do that was because she had cared for me in a time of, uh, deep loss in, in our household. Whenever a ah dog had died unexpectedly in our household and I came home and found it.

27:29.86
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

27:29.88
Kevin Shock
And, um, and Lisa was, Lisa was traveling for the day. So she wasn't able to be here immediately. And, um, and, uh,

27:42.08
Kevin Shock
Whenever other people found out about it, Alicia immediately said, ah I'll come and I'll come and pick the dog up so you don't have to worry about it.

27:51.02
Nathan Pile
yeah

27:54.96
Kevin Shock
And like that was a day that was filled with me, just like like the adrenaline, like keeping me from breaking down. And then um she came here. I handed the dog over. We put the dog in the back of her car and so she could take it to the vet and And, and then she just like, I just lost it and, and she hugged me and I, you know, like that was, that was tough because not because of the situation, but because someone had perceived a need in the middle of that situation that just said, I'm just going to do it.

28:31.65
Kevin Shock
And man, that was, it was huge for us. Yeah.

28:35.62
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure.

28:36.69
Kevin Shock
So. Yeah. that It's, it's hard. It's hard for us to accept being comforted. It really is.

28:42.43
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

28:44.24
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Which maybe is why, uh, well, I don't know. That's a bigger discussion. Do you think about it in terms of this is an entire nation that needs to be comforted and, and people in surrounding nations too, who, um, are feeling the same, the same pain, uh,

28:57.24
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

29:06.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's yeah, if it's if it's hard for a for an individual to accept vulnerability, or to admit vulnerability, boy, it's even that much harder for a group of people or a nation to admit vulnerability.

29:21.12
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Well, because oftentimes um as human beings, we mask ourselves in strength when we talk about community. we're we're trying to We're trying to keep weakness away.

29:33.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right.

29:37.41
Nathan Pile
um You know, as ah as a as a person who lives in the United States, we pride ourselves as Americans of how strong of an army

29:38.83
Kevin Shock
Yep.

29:49.40
Nathan Pile
how strong of um military might we have.

29:54.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

29:54.69
Nathan Pile
um and And I have some of that pride, absolutely, absolutely as an American.

29:55.00
Kevin Shock
Yep.

30:00.53
Nathan Pile
But like, that's where we're, because we're together, we're strong, you know, and and and we're strong because we we have this very well-tooled and resourced fighting force.

30:15.82
Nathan Pile
And so there's something about that being community and being strong that we feel like has to go together. Um, and yet community with vulnerability is really what we see in in the new Testament specifically, but here, even in the old Testament, um, a community wrestling with the realities of that they,

30:41.18
Nathan Pile
they aren't, that Jerusalem isn't the place that it used to be, but God's going to nurture it back to be the place that it, that it, that it can be. um

30:54.20
Nathan Pile
Because a part of Jerusalem's history is that, that it, that it is defeated. it is beaten by outside um powers that are stronger and um more able to

30:59.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

31:06.55
Nathan Pile
to exert their will on Jerusalem than Jerusalem was at exerting its will. um And so um there's a part of the story then that has to become, how do we, how do we um live in that vulnerability?

31:23.52
Nathan Pile
and And it's an interesting thing as, even as I'm talking about it, to think about that we as the United States, um

31:31.52
Nathan Pile
you know, we don't, we, there's a, there's a sense that we don't lose as Americans. We've only won yet.

31:42.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

31:43.34
Nathan Pile
Yet there's times that we have, and we've just kind of brushed those under the carpet.

31:46.07
Kevin Shock
Sure.

31:48.26
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and, um, right.

31:48.32
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right. it's It's hard to talk about those complexities. Yeah.

31:53.19
Nathan Pile
The complexities of that. And so it, rather than to deal with that and be vulnerable and deal with that, we brush it under the carpet and just say, we're strong. We always win.

32:04.30
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

32:06.35
Nathan Pile
So.

32:07.24
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and what we understand from Israel and Judah in here in Isaiah is um that this this defeat allowed them again to remember or be reminded that um God is their comforter, God is their provider, and and the the human king cannot cannot fill that role.

32:35.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

32:37.20
Kevin Shock
the human king is not strong enough or astute enough to fill that role. Yeah. All right, Nathan, what about you? What is God calling you toward in this text?

32:47.92
Nathan Pile
um it that it it It walks alongside yours here a little bit because ah the gratitude piece that you mentioned is is a part for me. um And so the so the celebrating is also something that, that impacts me here. So there's a, there's a piece of, of celebrating what God does for us. And and out of that celebrating, that's where gratitude is.

33:09.44
Nathan Pile
um Out of that celebration, the gratitude for what God, how God cares for God's people is a part of this passage for me. So um rejoicing, um celebrating,

33:24.43
Nathan Pile
uh, recognizing and having, you know, having that, that fee, those feelings of joy, but, but with it, there comes with that, a part of, of gratitude for being cared for, being comforted, uh, being restored. Um, so all of that, um, for me wraps up in this, um,

33:46.97
Nathan Pile
in this So I feel called towards that and God calling me to recognizing recognizing what's around me, celebrating what's around me.

33:57.18
Nathan Pile
We're having a ah ah good summer. um We have a a great group of staff. And so that's been one of the things here in the last week or so that I've tried to make sure that I've articulated to our team.

34:08.29
Nathan Pile
is recognizing that we have a good team together and and how do we celebrate that and giving thanks that God has brought this team together to to accomplish the ministry that is um that is camp this summer.

34:19.77
Nathan Pile
um And so there's a part of of

34:25.37
Nathan Pile
of being able to notice and celebrate what is good because there's been years that the staff sometimes just doesn't click together. It doesn't work as well together.

34:33.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

34:34.37
Nathan Pile
um

34:34.50
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

34:35.15
Nathan Pile
And so when, when it does happen to be able to kind of celebrate it and to kind of put it out there and say, you know, this is a, this is a good thing. We're moving in in good directions here. um

34:44.19
Kevin Shock
yeah

34:45.26
Nathan Pile
And so, ah

34:48.75
Nathan Pile
and so that piece of gratitude going with it now, I don't feel like this doesn't say specifically gratitude, but it, but it's saying, notice, notice who's caring, notice, notice who's, who's building up.

35:03.53
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and so out of that, I, I add to that, that piece of, of gratitude. So yes, celebrating all that is, um, that God is, is providing.

35:14.12
Nathan Pile
Um, and but also again, noticing that the source of all of that is God, which I think is powerful. So.

35:23.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah, great.

35:26.23
Nathan Pile
All right, we're going to do a third time.

35:29.02
Kevin Shock
Sure do. All right, from Isaiah 66. Celebrate with Jerusalem. Be happy with her, all you who love her. Rejoice with her in joy, all you who mourn over her, so that you may nurse and be satisfied from her comforting breasts, that you may drink and be refreshed from her full breasts,

35:47.42
Kevin Shock
The Lord says, look I'm extending prosperity to her like a river and the wealth of nations like an overflowing stream you will nurse and be carried on the hip and bounced upon the knee as a mother comforts her child so I will comfort you in Jerusalem you will be comforted when you see this your heart will rejoice your entire being will flourish like grass the lord's power will be known among his servants but his fury among his enemies. Nathan, what brings you consolation?

36:19.80
Nathan Pile
Um, I would say that the source is the spirit, Holy Spirit of God. The, the way that it comes about is reflection on my part.

36:27.68
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

36:34.57
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

36:35.07
Nathan Pile
Um, and so there are absolutely times that, that consolation has occurred and, um,

36:44.50
Nathan Pile
And I haven't tracked it back because I haven't done the reflection piece. But when I do, when I do finally pause and finally kind of say, why am I, how, how, am how am I feeling better?

36:50.31
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

36:57.94
Nathan Pile
Or is there a way to feel better as I, as that reflection piece happens for me, I find myself being able to draw lines back to God.

37:10.30
Nathan Pile
and the gift of that Holy Spirit, um, that lives in me, that lives in other people. Um, and so being able to, but like, I have to, I have to make that intentional step of, of reflection.

37:27.44
Nathan Pile
Otherwise, sometimes I just

37:32.99
Nathan Pile
celebrate the good and, and And haven't given given thanks to the source of that consolation.

37:44.20
Nathan Pile
When I think about things that haven't gone well or that how things have fallen apart um in my life and world, um the need, the need for that consolation um

38:04.91
Nathan Pile
in my own life. Um, if, if I haven't done the reflection part of it, um, uh, it, like I could convince myself that I did it.

38:19.14
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

38:20.24
Nathan Pile
And maybe I'm not trying to convince myself of who did it. Um, but I, I could see myself falling under the temptation of saying, well done, Nathan, way to get through that. um Not that I always do that, but that piece of reflection allows me to kind of say and to and to see really who has helped me to navigate that difficult time.

38:44.27
Nathan Pile
um you know, I'm putting, I'm putting, I'm thinking about my own life of when, when things have fallen apart as here, the people of Israel, their world has fallen apart a couple of times.

38:56.65
Nathan Pile
um And so the, the words of the, the prophet being shared to

39:07.33
Nathan Pile
to help them understand um the goodness that is, that is due them and it is coming coming to them is from God. For me, as I, as I've lived life, when things have kind of fallen apart um in my life or in my world, um making sure that I've given myself time to reflect upon it allows for the the blossoming of hope, um the the the blossoming of um of reconciliation and forgiveness.

39:41.78
Nathan Pile
um And so that reflection piece really becomes um critically important to what brings about that consolation. um

39:54.74
Nathan Pile
And again, I would I would even say that the Holy Spirit is the one that helps me to reflect. It's the one that asks, that doubts things that causes me to have questions. And so when I start to have those questions and I start to ask them out loud, then it causes me to to begin to reflect.

40:09.61
Nathan Pile
And so it's not like I say to myself, Nathan,

40:10.60
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

40:13.58
Nathan Pile
let's intentionally reflect upon what we've learned. Um, but like we have those inner voices that say, why, what happened here?

40:16.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

40:21.98
Nathan Pile
Why didn't it, why did it fall apart? What, what went on? Um, and so being able to, um,

40:32.04
Nathan Pile
to recognize that in my own life, um, and that reflection happens. Um, that's what helps me to, to bring about consolation. And, and it can be people that walk alongside, um, that as, as reflections happening, it's not that it's just Nathan reflecting and it gets better, but the reflection helps me to see that consolation has occurred.

40:55.01
Nathan Pile
It could, it absolutely could have been good friends. It could have been, uh, a Tend session with Kevin, um, that that helped to to bring it about but the reflection is what helps me to to recognize that consolation is occurring um most likely it is it is a source from the outside that has helped to do that um

41:17.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

41:18.60
Nathan Pile
But that I could I could I could um skip over that if I haven't done the reflection piece that helps me to see, oh there there was others that were that were a part of that. And and again, to me, the source is always going to be God, is always going to be the Holy Spirit that has helped it to do that.

41:37.24
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah

41:40.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, I heard I heard one thing in your reflection, Nathan, that, ah boy, just as a recurring theme in all of our readings lately, and that is that we, um sometimes it's it's easy for human beings to take the place of God.

41:56.29
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

41:57.23
Kevin Shock
um You said something along the lines of ah letting yourself believe that you were the one who provided consolation to yourself in that in that moment ah without reflection.

42:06.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

42:07.74
Kevin Shock
and and And that's the that's the problem that Isaiah is addressing with with Judah and Jerusalem and Israel here, that um this is you know, they they thought that with a king, they would have their own they would have their own consolation, their own provision.

42:25.61
Kevin Shock
ah but they still need God. That was the problem in our text from our last episode when the disciples wanted to rain fire down on on the ah people who didn't welcome them because they were putting themselves in the position of God.

42:36.62
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

42:39.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

42:39.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

42:40.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

42:40.64
Nathan Pile
them

42:41.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

42:44.30
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend?

42:44.45
Kevin Shock
yeah

42:45.06
Nathan Pile
what um

42:46.25
Kevin Shock
um

42:47.58
Nathan Pile
What brings you consolation?

42:49.45
Kevin Shock
I think I think it's related to stuff that I've already said, so I'll keep it kind of short. But I think that the spirit, maybe the spirit is the one who gets through my defenses or knocks my defenses down and allows someone else to come in.

43:03.69
Kevin Shock
um that That really brings... I would Consolation is a is a really different word. i is' we don't, it means comfort, but to me it is something more than just comfort, just basic comfort.

43:16.66
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

43:20.53
Kevin Shock
It's, uh, it, consolation is something that, that helps a nagging, a problem that's been nagging that maybe we didn't even know about and, um, and provides not only relief, but maybe some, and not vindication in the sense of,

43:40.24
Kevin Shock
um like like the people who or the situation the the people are the situation that had been hurting us is, um you know, they're they're done away with. it Maybe that's not quite the case, but but I think consolation is something a bit deeper than just comfort, that it addresses an underlying need.

44:03.52
Kevin Shock
And, uh, yeah, so I, so I, think I think I agree with you that this the source of consolation is the Holy Spirit, but there are all kinds of other participants in that consolation who are, who are messengers of God's word, not, not just in word, but in deed, uh, that, that really, um Pay attention to the spirit breaking down my defenses and, and become active in, in providing what I need. Yeah.

44:38.66
Kevin Shock
Yep.

44:43.96
Nathan Pile
Well, and I appreciate that that broader perspective on that word consolation. Um, cause I would, I would reiterate like, yeah, that it is bigger than just comfort.

44:57.15
Nathan Pile
So thanks for, for digging that out a little bit more and making that, um, defining that a little bit better.

44:58.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

45:06.91
Nathan Pile
Uh, anything else, Kevin, you got,

45:09.24
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. No.

45:12.81
Nathan Pile
um Additional texts, Psalm 66 verses 1 through 9. All of the earth bows down before you and sings out your name.

45:25.25
Nathan Pile
Again, that idea of rejoice

45:29.96
Nathan Pile
to God. Galatians 6 verses 1 to 16.

45:35.73
Nathan Pile
ah The Gospel of Luke, chapter 10, verses 1 through 11 and 16 to 20. Or you could just read 1 to 20 of the 10th chapter of Luke.

45:44.93
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

45:46.14
Nathan Pile
um This is where Jesus sends out the 70 disciples to to gather the harvest. And then some continuous readings. 2 Kings, chapter 5, verses 1 through 14. Elisha heals warrior.

46:00.04
Nathan Pile
um Elisha hear's a warrior heals a warrior So from leprosy and Psalm 30, my God, I cried out to you and you restored me to health. So you can see some of those common themes, um even in these, the continuing, the continuous kind of readings ah here of the summer season.

46:23.48
Nathan Pile
Well, as always, Kevin, I appreciate your reflection and our time to be together to to hear what God is calling us to and and moving us to in Scripture.

46:35.46
Nathan Pile
and um And as always, we look forward to hearing from the TEND nation as you all um encounter Scripture yourselves.

46:46.49
Nathan Pile
So we hope to TEND faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

46:51.17
Kevin Shock
And peace.