Episode 40: Luke 11:1-13

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

For what might you persistently ask God?

Additional texts:

Genesis 18:20-32

Psalm 138

Colossians 2:6-19

Hosea 1:2-10

Psalm 85

Transcript

00:02.22
Kevin Shock
I bet it's a lovely Monday whenever you're hearing this, although it may not be Monday when this is released, it will be Monday and it will be July 21st.

00:13.88
Kevin Shock
Uh, and someone very important to me turns 75 today. And that is my dear mother, Debbie. I know she listens to this podcast, so happy birthday, Debbie.

00:23.74
Nathan Pile
oh um

00:28.54
Kevin Shock
We, we both love you on this, on this podcast.

00:28.64
Nathan Pile
Happy birthday. We do. We do. It's good to see her a couple of weeks ago.

00:33.14
Kevin Shock
And, uh, yeah. And we, um, we hope you're having a wonderful birthday or had a wonderful birthday. If you're not, if you're listening to this later. Our birthday gift to you is Nathan and I are going to talk about this passage of scripture.

00:49.70
Nathan Pile
Lucky you.

00:50.88
Kevin Shock
ah but Just like a good son. Yeah, just here. let me give you the crappiest gift there is. No, that's probably not true. oh But Nathan and I are certainly going to talk about a package a passage of scripture today. We're going to look at Luke chapter 11, verses 1 through 13.

01:10.55
Kevin Shock
ah The translation is the Common English Bible. No surprise there, right, Nathan? um

01:16.37
Nathan Pile
No surprise.

01:17.77
Kevin Shock
And ah the three questions that we are going to look at, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And for what might you persistently ask God?

01:36.26
Nathan Pile
Some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white firmly in middle age. college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

01:48.91
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for faith with, or compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

02:07.82
Nathan Pile
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as you hear scripture.

02:16.70
Nathan Pile
Luke, the 11th chapter.

02:22.27
Nathan Pile
Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said, Lord, teach us to pray. Just as John taught his disciples. Jesus told them, when you pray, say, Father, uphold the holiness of your name.

02:40.37
Nathan Pile
Bring in your kingdom. Give us the bread we need for today. Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who has wronged us.

02:52.87
Nathan Pile
And don't lead us into temptation. He also said to them, Imagine that one of you has a friend, and you go to that friend in the middle of the night.

03:04.17
Nathan Pile
Imagine saying, Friend, loan me three loaves of bread, because a friend of mine on a journey has arrived, and I have nothing to set before him. Imagine further that he answers from within the house. Don't bother me.

03:18.93
Nathan Pile
The door is already locked and my children and I are in bed. I can't get up to give you anything. I assure you, even if he wouldn't get up and help because of his friendship, he will get up and give his friend whatever he needs because his friend's brashness.

03:37.08
Nathan Pile
And I tell you, ask and you will receive. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you. Everyone who asks receives. Whoever seeks finds.

03:48.48
Nathan Pile
To everyone who knocks, the door is opened.

03:52.70
Nathan Pile
Which father among you would give a snake to your child if the child asked you for a fish? If a child asked for an egg, what father would give the child a scorpion?

04:04.76
Nathan Pile
If you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?

04:18.67
Nathan Pile
If you are meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. um Kevin, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

04:32.91
Kevin Shock
ah There's a couple of things. um The first one I'm just going to mention quickly. I'm ah I'm interested how we, and this is maybe more for preachers than anything else or anyone else, but um I'm interested how Jesus ah reveals something about the the the expectations of hospitality during this time.

04:59.12
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

04:59.14
Kevin Shock
um That it would be it would be expected in such a way that a the person receiving a friend or a visitor late at night would have something to give them to eat.

05:12.79
Kevin Shock
um And it would be an expectation of them to give them something to eat so much so that he would be willing or out of necessity, go and wake someone else up in order to get something from them, their household to bring it back home.

05:18.82
Nathan Pile
go

05:24.35
Nathan Pile
but

05:25.47
Kevin Shock
um I say that's important because another reading for this week is ah Genesis when Abraham is beginning to bargain with God for um for the sake of Sodom and Gomorrah.

05:38.26
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

05:38.59
Kevin Shock
And there's a lot missing from that, but I, hospitality plays a big role in that whole story um if you're preaching that way. But what really caught my, that I mean, that caught my attention, but what really caught my attention, I was gonna talk about that until you got to the very end,

05:57.72
Kevin Shock
And it becomes clear that Jesus, Jesus is not talking about um God will give you anything you want, but ask for the Holy Spirit and God will give that to you.

06:11.19
Kevin Shock
Because like a piece of fish instead of a snake and like an egg instead of a scorpion, the Holy Spirit is what you really need.

06:26.97
Kevin Shock
I don't, I mean, i say, because like, I'm like, I know what Jesus's meaning is in this, that ah but I can't, I I know I really did, which is why I'm, that's why I'm, that's why I'm backpedaling now.

06:32.67
Nathan Pile
you did You said it with good authority, though. that like You had me convinced. You had me convinced.

06:40.02
Kevin Shock
um ah Maybe I said it with too much false authority.

06:43.69
Nathan Pile
Too much authority. Yeah.

06:45.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um I'm just intrigued that ah this, you know, this is like ah you ask, ask and you will receive, you know, and knock and the door will be open, seek and you will find.

06:58.48
Kevin Shock
God is willing to give for sure. But also I think this reading makes it clear that God is not going to give you things that are going to be harmful for you or that you can utilize to be harmful to somebody else.

07:12.49
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

07:14.14
Kevin Shock
And, and the, the, the gift that ensures goodness and all you do is the Holy Spirit.

07:23.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Mm hmm.

07:26.36
Kevin Shock
I remember

07:29.70
Kevin Shock
I remember this as a, from, it from childhood. Um, well, I mean, I was like a teenager, but but yeah we were talking about Debbie early on here. Uh, this is, this is a Debbie story and she can email us and clarify if we get it wrong.

07:44.47
Kevin Shock
Um, or if I get it wrong, but, um, I remember that she, she had attended a Bible study in our neighborhood when I was a kid, maybe a couple of different ones. And, And I remember one time I had to have been a teenager cause she was talking to me like I was an adult about this.

07:59.62
Kevin Shock
Um, she was at, uh, she was at this Bible study in the neighborhood. And I think these people were more like out of a, they were not Lutherans. They were out of a different tradition, maybe like Pentecostalism or something like that.

08:12.52
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

08:12.54
Kevin Shock
And, and they were praying for someone there needed, I re I remember this someone there needed transportation, like their car had died or something like that. And they said, you know,

08:23.87
Kevin Shock
ah I'm not just going to pray for transportation. I'm going to pray for the exact car that I want. Uh, cause I know that God is willing to give this, you know, God is willing to give. And, and so I remember my mom saying, you know, he, he prayed for like the color of the car, the make and the model and all this stuff.

08:43.00
Kevin Shock
And I remember my mom saying, I don't know she said it exactly like this, but she said he could have prayed for a bus pass. And And I, and, um, but I, I like that sticks with me because I think that that, I think that that story and her interpretation of that situation is, is very appropriate to what Jesus is saying here.

09:12.89
Kevin Shock
Um, this is not just about whatever you want, you know, elsewhere, Jesus says, whatever you ask for in my name it will be given to you. And he doesn't mean like, just, just say my name and anything you want will pop up.

09:26.57
Kevin Shock
No, it's, it's the, anything you ask for that's according to what I'm doing and who I am, you'll get it. Um, yeah.

09:35.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

09:36.77
Kevin Shock
So I, yeah, it's just that, uh, his disciples could very, very easily be led to think that they're going to get whatever they ask for. But Jesus is like, no, I'm I'm talking about the Holy Spirit.

09:52.46
Kevin Shock
You'll get the Holy Spirit. And you probably won't care about the other things that you think you want, you know, if you get the Holy Spirit, but um you're going to get the Holy Spirit. Yeah. So that's what kind of stuck with me.

10:04.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

10:05.65
Kevin Shock
What about you, Nathan? Nathan?

10:06.38
Nathan Pile
Um, um

10:11.90
Nathan Pile
Well, ah my the my my head got spinning as soon as I got started here because of the how the CEB translate the Lord's Prayer, the beginning part of the Lord's Prayer.

10:25.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

10:26.35
Nathan Pile
um I thought that was really interesting language. And again, it's why I I know that you like the CEB, maybe even bordering on love.

10:37.46
Nathan Pile
um um ah

10:41.10
Kevin Shock
No, I'm not idolatrous about it.

10:41.12
Nathan Pile
but Okay. Not at all. the trust All right. Um, so

10:45.37
Kevin Shock
I do like it, though. I don't know.

10:49.15
Nathan Pile
the, so, but the language here, i think, um, as, as, as people were listening, I hope it caught their attention. You know, we're accustomed to hearing our father who art in heaven.

11:02.44
Nathan Pile
And, and here we have, um, we have father uphold the holiness of your name. um

11:11.13
Nathan Pile
It challenges, again, this is one of the things I'm not, Kevin is the um

11:18.63
Nathan Pile
English slash literature literature major um among us. um But I I do appreciate a good ah good um translation or phrase that causes me to think of about what I think I know about God and scripture.

11:39.67
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

11:39.69
Nathan Pile
And so this this um language, all of it kind of ah kind of caught my attention, but it was those first two lines that really kind of were the big part of it, um of uphold the name, uphold the holiness of your name and bring in your kingdom.

11:57.98
Nathan Pile
um And we when we pray the Lord's Prayer,

12:05.55
Nathan Pile
I'm not always... positive that I'm thinking about those two things. You know, um,

12:17.44
Nathan Pile
you know, hallowed be your name, um, your kingdom come that the, but these, this phrasing, um, kind of just struck me and I was kind of like, oh yeah.

12:30.63
Nathan Pile
Um, what a good, a good way of being reminded that in this prayer, we're, we're asking God, um

12:42.14
Nathan Pile
to, to do the things really that, that we can't do, you know, in, in our own ah selfishness that, you know, it doesn't mean that we can't uphold God's name being set apart, but, um,

13:00.49
Nathan Pile
I just thought about this the other day, one of the staff, um, something happened and they yelled Jesus. And I was like, where, where, where, where?

13:11.40
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

13:12.50
Nathan Pile
And they were like, what, what are you talking about? I'm like, you just said Jesus's name. I was looking for him. Um, kind of thing. But like, I do the same thing. I, I, I unfortunately use God's name in vain.

13:24.26
Nathan Pile
Um,

13:27.57
Nathan Pile
but being able to kind of recognize that God's name is to be holy, to be set apart. Um, and, and so to remind, remind myself as I'm praying this, that I want, I want God's help in helping me to do that.

13:41.38
Nathan Pile
Uh, I want God's help in bringing about the kingdom of God because it's not, so it's ah it's a God sized project. It's not a Nathan sized project.

13:49.00
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

13:49.34
Nathan Pile
Um, And so the language here just kind of struck me as of being able to remind me of that. And so like when I do it every now and then at camp, um but I'm not writing liturgy or putting liturgy together every week.

14:05.05
Nathan Pile
um at Sequanota because there's there's many parts of my call here and so but as a parish pastor I was always kind of looking for a different language in our liturgy that would do what this prayer here in this reading did did for me which was give me language that helps me to hear it with new ears or eyes to see it with new eyes um and, and then it it gets me thinking, um, differently.

14:33.50
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

14:34.19
Nathan Pile
And so this, these, this translation again, does what I appreciate different translations doing, which is that it brings to life, um, God's word to me in, in some, in some new ways that, that causes some different inspiration that causes me to go, Oh yeah, that's what this is supposed to be about.

14:55.03
Nathan Pile
Um, And that then, you as we talked about last, um, last time, then, then hopefully that, that inspiration helps me to, to engage it and make it more a part of my life.

15:10.47
Nathan Pile
Um, this prayer that we pray, um pretty, pretty regularly, you know, ah if we're going to church on Sundays, we're, we're praying it at least once if we're, it it might be in your own prayer life that you're praying every day.

15:25.16
Nathan Pile
um ah but this passage with this translation kind of sticks out to me in that way. So, yeah.

15:34.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah, I think, but yeah, I I looked at a couple of different translations for this reading, and I liked um also Eugene Peterson's message translation of the Lord's Prayer is um interesting to read, and I think puts us in a different mind.

15:50.62
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

15:52.75
Kevin Shock
There were some other things in that reading that I was... less enthusiastic about. So I, so I looked at the CEB.

15:59.14
Nathan Pile
So you picked the CEB.

16:00.40
Kevin Shock
and and And honestly, no, the CEB does say things that are, um

16:01.43
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

16:06.85
Kevin Shock
ah I think, says it differently enough that it makes us think about what Jesus is actually talking about.

16:15.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

16:16.31
Kevin Shock
um But I remember I also remember one time ah doing an exercise with, this wasn't in seminary, it was part of ah actually part of the Theological Education with Youth Summer Academy, ah talking about the Lord's Prayer and um looking at the different translations of when Jesus introduces his prayer in the Gospels. And they're not all the same.

16:46.23
Kevin Shock
um you know, I think I think that was born out of a ah which translation should we should we do the Our Father Who Art in Heaven or the Our Father in Heaven version when we are in worship?

17:00.81
Kevin Shock
and And there were some opinions about which one was the quote-unquote right one. And then we looked at scripture to show, well, it seems like there are different versions all around. So, yeah, maybe there's not a right one.

17:16.33
Nathan Pile
Right. All

17:16.64
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah, so, ah but I think this translation, ah think looking at these in any translation in the gospels helps us to see the, the, the our father, the Lord's prayer that we say in worship in a different light.

17:31.90
Kevin Shock
Um, but certainly I think this translation helps us to see it too.

17:36.57
Nathan Pile
right. Yeah.

17:37.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

17:38.30
Nathan Pile
Do you... um

17:42.08
Nathan Pile
Do you use different translations of the Lord's Prayer in liturgy?

17:47.62
Kevin Shock
Well, I'm, I'm usually not the person in charge of, um, crafting the liturgy anymore in places where I go, it's usually done for me. Um, which is fine.

17:58.80
Kevin Shock
I prefer that because I want to, as I tell people, I want to do what, um, what, what you're used to, not what I'm used to, because it's easier for one person to adjust than for, you know, a whole other group of people to adjust.

18:04.78
Nathan Pile
What'd you do?

18:08.53
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

18:13.45
Nathan Pile
The community. Sure.

18:14.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

18:15.78
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

18:15.87
Kevin Shock
Um, And, and honestly, I hadn't done that when I was in the parish, but now it makes me wonder, maybe it wouldn't be a bad thing. Or I've been, um, I've also been in communities. I can't remember where it was recently where they had both the more contemporary or the English, uh, the, I can't remember what the group is called the English language consultation committee or something. Um,

18:45.85
Kevin Shock
it was doing that that did some of these newer translations of like the creeds and the Lord's Prayer in the mid-1970s. um So that translation, the Our Father in Heaven translation, it had that one and the Our Father who art in heaven translation side by side.

19:03.08
Nathan Pile
In the bulletin.

19:03.91
Kevin Shock
and in the bulletin so people could just choose which one they wanted to do which I also think is a helpful thing if you are if people in the congregation are saying two different similar but slightly different translations I think it helps you pay attention more to what you're saying and it doesn't just come wrote because if you're just saying it wrote you're going to get thrown off because you're going to say trespasses and the person beside you is going to say sins and

19:05.65
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

19:22.34
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

19:33.37
Kevin Shock
and then you then then you're And then it kicks your brain into paying attention to what you're actually saying because you have to find your spot again and continue on.

19:33.51
Nathan Pile
Right.

19:41.36
Nathan Pile
right Sure.

19:43.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:43.61
Nathan Pile
Sure. Well, know it's interesting that you've been in a setting where that has occurred because I was recently in a worship service and I thought, why don't we just let people say whichever one they want to say um side by side and allow it to be what it is.

19:55.60
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

20:00.99
Nathan Pile
um

20:01.24
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

20:02.60
Nathan Pile
Because there would be a little bit, I think the first couple of times you did it, there would probably be a little bit of discomfort. Because somebody else might be saying something next to you that would be different than what you would say.

20:15.97
Nathan Pile
um but the But because of the way we set them up, oftentimes in our hymnals, they're they they have the same not quite cadence, but they would have the same amount roughly of words.

20:32.29
Nathan Pile
And so there would be the breaks because of the way that we were, where we put our return, hit the return on the line, um that there would be, that gap would be somewhat similar.

20:34.67
Kevin Shock
right

20:44.40
Nathan Pile
So even if the cadence isn't quite the same, it would be, close enough that it would allow for some of that space. So, uh, so it's an interesting piece to me because I do think, um, one of my things is, uh, pet peeves is ah that I don't use the word art for anything other than arts and crafts, um, in my contemporary language.

21:09.12
Nathan Pile
And so when I pray our father who art in heaven, I think about God crafting. No, I don't really. But, um,

21:17.19
Kevin Shock
No, you don't.

21:18.69
Nathan Pile
I don't, but it but it is, but it's not a part of my language anywhere else.

21:24.42
Nathan Pile
And so this prayer is to be a part of

21:24.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure.

21:29.43
Nathan Pile
um a part of what I'm doing. And so, so it's just, and again, this translation is interesting to me in that way. So, and now you say the message is interesting, so I should, now I'm going to to go look that up too.

21:41.37
Nathan Pile
So.

21:41.91
Kevin Shock
yeah I just remember the daily bread line is ah something like give us our three square meals or something like that, which. All right. All right.

21:50.25
Nathan Pile
that's when you lost it you had me till then

21:50.68
Kevin Shock
Eu- Eu- Eugene Peterson of blessed memory.

21:54.07
Nathan Pile
yeah

21:54.94
Kevin Shock
yeah. Yeah. Um, uh, well yeah that makes me think too, Nathan, you're in an interesting scenario in at camp where you have staff who ah do not have the same native language.

22:09.65
Nathan Pile
correct yeah

22:10.45
Kevin Shock
And, um, and that would make it even different in a, that would make it different in a completely different way. Yeah.

22:17.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:18.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah

22:19.07
Nathan Pile
it's um This conversation is actually starting to help me formulate maybe worship on Sunday um because I think it would be fun to allow everybody to say the Lord's Prayer how they know how to say it.

22:33.93
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

22:35.28
Nathan Pile
um

22:35.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

22:37.38
Nathan Pile
and Just let it be what it is.

22:41.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

22:45.70
Nathan Pile
um Yeah, so I'm going to play around with that now, I think.

22:49.72
Kevin Shock
All right.

22:50.38
Nathan Pile
ah But yeah, now back to back to our podcast.

22:55.93
Kevin Shock
Take two.

22:56.71
Nathan Pile
Take two, buddy.

22:57.86
Kevin Shock
Okay. From Luke 11. Jesus was praying in a certain place, Where that is, we don't know. ah When he finished...

23:07.37
Nathan Pile
By the way, the second reading is going to be with commentary from Kevin.

23:10.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah, no, I'll stop the commentary. Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said, Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples. Jesus told them, when you pray, say, Father, uphold the holiness of your name.

23:26.14
Kevin Shock
Bring in your kingdom. Give us the bread we need for today. Forgive us our sins and for we also forgive every everyone who has wronged to us and don't lead us into temptation.

23:37.35
Kevin Shock
He also said to them, imagine that one of you has a friend and you go to that friend in the middle of the night. Imagine saying, friend, loan me three loaves of bread because a friend of mine on a journey has arrived and I have nothing to set before him.

23:50.68
Kevin Shock
Imagine further that he answers from within the house, don't bother me. The door is already locked and my children and I are in bed. I can't get up to give you anything. I assure you, even if he wouldn't get up and help because of his friendship, he will get up and give his friend whatever he needs because of his friend's brashness.

24:09.67
Kevin Shock
And I tell you, ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you. Everyone who asks receives, whoever seeks finds, to everyone who knocks the door is opened.

24:23.38
Kevin Shock
Which father among you would give a snake to your child if the child asked for a fish? If a child asked for an egg, what father would give the child a scorpion? If you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?

24:41.75
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

24:45.86
Nathan Pile
If I'm honest in this moment, it is to wait until the middle of the night, drive to Howard and knock on your door and ask you for three loaves of bread.

24:49.48
Kevin Shock
You should be.

24:57.74
Nathan Pile
um

24:58.17
Kevin Shock
Ummmm,

24:59.21
Nathan Pile
ah and But then I thought you're married and Lisa will not like that very much.

24:59.50
Kevin Shock
I couldn't, I couldn't give you that right now. but

25:04.48
Nathan Pile
But if you, it was just you and me, buddy, I would absolutely do it. um That it was the, as you were reading the three loaves section, was like, dude, would I, would I do that to Kevin?

25:15.99
Nathan Pile
And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I think I would.

25:17.88
Kevin Shock
I think it'd be too far.

25:18.47
Nathan Pile
I,

25:19.00
Kevin Shock
You'd have to find a closer friend.

25:22.16
Nathan Pile
that's the whole point. That would be the beauty of it. You'd be like, what in the, what, what are you doing here?

25:24.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah

25:27.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and the friend who's waiting for you to feed them would be stuck at your house for four or five hours until you got back.

25:27.56
Nathan Pile
And leave me alone.

25:34.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. I probably wouldn't rush back.

25:35.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

25:36.78
Nathan Pile
I probably wouldn't rush back. Um, cause I had spent two hours in the car to ride.

25:38.29
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

25:40.82
Nathan Pile
So I'd want to at least visit a little bit.

25:42.59
Kevin Shock
Oh,ok

25:42.87
Nathan Pile
Um, but ah did, that was the first, the first thing was like, dude, would I go to a friend's house and knock on their door for three loaves of bread?

25:47.73
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

25:51.25
Nathan Pile
Um, and then I thought maybe as a prank to Kevin, I would do that.

25:55.18
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

25:55.21
Nathan Pile
Um,

25:58.02
Kevin Shock
Great.

25:59.11
Nathan Pile
Um, the, I, but in, in all honesty, in all honesty, um, I feel caught in a called in this text is um, um to keep praying, uh, and that's, you know, there are, um times in my life that I'm, I wouldn't say that I'm, um, a great prayer, but I would say that I'm, I'm an average prayer, um at certain times in my life that I'm pretty good about taking care of myself and using prayer as a way to kind of have that conversation with God.

26:40.23
Nathan Pile
Um, and to, and to be asking and knocking and seeking, um, in my own life. And then there's other phases of my life, uh, other times in my life that, um, prayer is not a regular, um, occurrence.

26:56.37
Nathan Pile
Summer camp would be one of those places. Sometimes some of those weeks that things just keep cycling on.

26:58.73
Kevin Shock
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

27:05.51
Nathan Pile
And so I need that reminder to keep praying to, um, to make time in the day or, um, um, in the evening when I do get, um, uh, some time to be able to do that again for all of the, the, the asking, the seeking, you know, the, again, it, it pulls into kind of our topic last time, a little bit of that self-reflection piece of how do I self-reflect a little bit,

27:37.47
Nathan Pile
um about everything that's happening, um everything that's going on. um and And in some ways, that self-reflection time provides great joys in my prayer, giving celebrations of what's been happening at camp.

27:50.90
Nathan Pile
um It might be self-reflection of you need to go back and repair a relationship. um But that time often of of of centering with God helps me um and and and not so much that it's a um I call it a soda machine prayer or you know where dear yeah as you were talking about the story with your mom and the person who asked for a white impala chevy impala wasn't that but whatever the whatever the model of the car was um

28:24.24
Kevin Shock
Yeah, whatever it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

28:30.37
Nathan Pile
You know, it's not the prayer for me isn't that time of God, I need you to do this.

28:39.12
Nathan Pile
Might there be times that it to devolves that direction? Yeah, probably if I'm completely honored, honest. um But really, the time of prayer really helps me to kind of see and experience, to see and and practice um gratefulness of what's what is happening what is going well what is instead of just speeding along to the next thing that has to happen in the schedule to be able to say oh god I give thanks for these interactions, I give thanks for the walk that I took on the with the cabin group that we went for a hike today together and and the things that I experienced with those um with those hikers and campers as we as we as we went

29:20.59
Nathan Pile
I but being able to kind of pause and give thanks for that, giving thanks for, um, you know, staff members doing, uh, good jobs, but also then being able to kind of self reflect and say, what, what is it that I'm, what that I need?

29:38.19
Nathan Pile
And sometimes that time of reflection with God helps me to kind of say, all right, Nathan, you need to to, you need to take a break, um, tomorrow or, um,

29:50.11
Nathan Pile
or leads to some other kind of um remembrance or reminder of what, what else I might need to be ah doing. And so having that time, again, again, the word for me is centering, I think a little bit, it helps me to center myself um both in God, but also in the calling and the work that is, um that is being camp director and pastor at Sequanota. And so to have some of that time to, to help myself,

30:22.39
Nathan Pile
connect to God, um because that connection will help me be a better leader. um

30:32.88
Nathan Pile
But also, you know, being able to kind of recognize in my own vulnerability that I that there's help that is needed.

30:46.55
Nathan Pile
in accomplishing the ministry that is Sequanota. And so that time of centering also helps me to do that. Sometimes it is asking God for that help. Sometimes it is slowing myself down enough to recognize I need to ask other human beings who will serve with me in this space and in this ministry.

31:05.49
Nathan Pile
that I can just go to them and say, Hey, could, could you help me with this? Um, and so that centering time can be, but I think today hearing this message, the piece of keep praying, keep, keep making space to pray.

31:19.44
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

31:22.64
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

31:27.05
Nathan Pile
How about you? Toward what are you called in this passage?

31:27.94
Kevin Shock
Um, I, I think, um, I mean, I think it, yeah, I think it's similar. I think it is keep praying. I think it also, and maybe I think the way to do this is being prayerful about things is, uh, to watch what I asked God for.

31:48.23
Kevin Shock
um

31:49.46
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

31:50.34
Kevin Shock
ah be a little more, I mean, I think I think I already am discerning about what I ask God for. um Because I know I know well how, but at least I'm familiar with how God acts and what God desires, I think.

32:08.53
Kevin Shock
and

32:09.06
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

32:10.58
Kevin Shock
And so there are probably lots of things that I would like that would just make life easier for me. And maybe that's not what God is necessarily looking for me to have.

32:21.89
Kevin Shock
Um, but certainly, um being, and being shaped by the Holy spirit, uh, not just to live in a certain way, but to but to ask, but to ask for the things that will help me to live in that way. Um, I think is vital to our prayer lives and, and, um, yeah. And and our lives of faith in general, I think, um,

32:51.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I don't know that I, I think that I used to more flippantly ask God for things. I don't think that I do that so much anymore, but, but also I try to be mindful that, especially if I'm praying in a moment for somebody else.

33:12.68
Kevin Shock
I try to be very thoughtful and about what it is I'm praying for because I don't want to I don't want to paint God into a corner where God is expected to act in a certain way that might not be according to what God knows is best, if that makes sense.

33:30.53
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

33:32.04
Kevin Shock
yeah

33:35.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think think a lot of times I what I really need is I need for...

33:42.01
Kevin Shock
I I think I need for God to show me what it is I really need.

33:48.58
Kevin Shock
And maybe not just what I want.

33:54.55
Kevin Shock
it's easy to fall into like the, you know, treating, treating God like a genie

34:00.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

34:02.63
Kevin Shock
ah or or like Santa. um Yeah. I, I compared to God and Santa in a sermon recently and I thought it was a good comparison.

34:14.74
Kevin Shock
I contrasted them rather not compared them, contrasted them, but yeah.

34:22.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I yeah I'm I'm still like I think I'm still working through, thinking through that. um ask Ask for anything and God will give you the Holy Spirit.

34:35.94
Nathan Pile
ah

34:36.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah. All right, Jesus. All right. Yep. Yep. I get it.

34:40.48
Nathan Pile
because because what you're asking for isn't going to be what you really need so we're going to send you what you do

34:48.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. But I, but I think it is important. well I think it's important in this text to recognize, and I think it's important in our lives to recognize that God does not willingly withhold things that we need and that are good for us. I think that's a big part of this is like, you know, well, I asked God for this thing and God didn't give it to me.

35:10.59
Kevin Shock
Well, you know, could it be because that's not really what's good for you um, um but Because I think it's clear that God gives pretty liberally and abundantly of the things that God's people really need. Yeah.

35:36.56
Nathan Pile
um

35:43.50
Nathan Pile
I think I'll just hold it because ah it's it connects with this third question. So, um,

35:48.90
Kevin Shock
Okay.

35:49.37
Nathan Pile
So I was going go off of what you said, but I know I'll bleed into third number three here.

35:50.26
Kevin Shock
All right.

35:54.08
Nathan Pile
So let's just go to three and then I can go from there. So we'll do it a third time.

36:02.17
Kevin Shock
All right.

36:06.00
Nathan Pile
Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said, Lord, teach us to pray.

36:17.02
Nathan Pile
Just as John taught his disciples, Jesus told them, When you pray, say: 'Father, uphold the holiness of your name,

36:26.23
Nathan Pile
bring in your kingdom give us the bread we need for today forgive us our sins for we also forgive every everyone who has wronged us and don't lead us into temptation He also said to them, imagine that one of you has a friend and you go to that friend in the middle of the night.

36:46.32
Nathan Pile
Imagine saying, friend, loan me three loaves of bread because a friend of mine on a journey has arrived and I have nothing to set before him. Imagine further that he answers from within the house.

36:57.82
Nathan Pile
Don't bother me. The door is already locked and my children and I are in bed. I can't get up to give you anything. I assure you, even if you wouldn't get, even if he wouldn't get up and help because of his friendship, he will get up and give his friend whatever he needs because of his friend's brashness.

37:19.75
Nathan Pile
And I tell you, ask and you will receive, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you. Everyone who asks receives, whoever seeks finds.

37:30.71
Nathan Pile
To everyone who knocks, the door is opened. Which father among you would give a snake to your child if the child asked for a fish? If a child asked for an egg, what father would give the child a scorpion?

37:47.20
Nathan Pile
If you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?

38:03.16
Nathan Pile
Kevin, for what might you persistently ask god

38:10.41
Kevin Shock
Fish and eggs. No. um

38:17.74
Kevin Shock
I think, I don't know, I'm stuck on this Holy Spirit thing, Nathan. I i think, um I think persistently asking God for the gift of the Holy Spirit is a good thing.

38:30.07
Kevin Shock
And I think that there are different ways that we can ask for that. um To ask for ah the advocate, one who, you know,

38:40.68
Kevin Shock
puts in a good word for us whenever we need it to God, um, to ask for a guide, to ask for a companion and friend. Um, I think for me, the big thing is guidance.

38:53.42
Kevin Shock
I, I, I, that's, yeah, that's what my, my mind and my heart keep coming back to is asking for guidance. And, and I think not just guidance for myself, but guidance for,

39:07.77
Kevin Shock
the people around me too, so that we all, I mean, yeah. So that ah apparently there are a lot of things I want to ask for. but I think if I'm asking, I think if I'm asking for guidance for myself and for the people around me, what that puts the mind for me is that God is, God is drawing us in the same direction and that there's going to be unity there.

39:31.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

39:31.64
Kevin Shock
um And I so I think that that's a thing that I want God to, deliver to, unity, um, not uniformity, but unity that we can, that there are, I, uh, yeah, I was reading something just the other day and I can't remember exactly how the person put it.

39:44.41
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yeah

39:54.00
Kevin Shock
I can't remember exactly where it came from. ah but thinking about that uniformity versus unity thing, that, that

40:04.92
Kevin Shock
that we can, we can work well with the people with whom we disagree, as long as we agree on what the most important things are.

40:15.98
Nathan Pile
hmm hmm

40:17.31
Kevin Shock
And I think that's, I think that's a place that we've really gotten off track in this nation is that we think the most important thing is getting our own way politically, or, you know, and i mean, there could be any, any any kind of thing that we could say related to that phrase itself, getting our own way politically.

40:39.76
Kevin Shock
um But yeah, but if we, if we're able to agree on what the most important things are, and I don't know that we can do that as a nation, but I think in small communities, we can do that in, ah in, in subsets of the nation, we can do that.

40:54.33
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

40:58.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah

40:58.57
Kevin Shock
um Then I think that we can find a way forward and, and for the people of God, ah and I feel pretty confident in saying that the most important thing is that we're following Jesus in his way.

41:17.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

41:22.84
Kevin Shock
So, yeah, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, guidance, unity. I I'm just going to go with that for now before I come up with

41:31.42
Nathan Pile
Those three, those three. So you started with zero and now we have three for you.

41:35.61
Kevin Shock
Right. And before I get to like 12, we're just going to move on to your answer.

41:36.10
Nathan Pile
Right.

41:38.40
Nathan Pile
you're go You're just going to pause. It's going pause.

41:40.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

41:41.20
Nathan Pile
Well, as I read the question, the word that that actually popped into my head um was guidance. So that was the first. um I think as I think about today, you know, right now, 2025, the thing that I have persistently prayed for and can will continue to persistently pray for it is guidance.

41:52.45
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

42:04.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

42:08.13
Nathan Pile
Because I'm I'm I think that's the question that sticks out to me right now of what is the way forward um is the question that that is before me. And and I'm I'm not real sure what that is most days.

42:27.40
Nathan Pile
um not as a camp director, as a camp director, we have a schedule. It's pretty locked in. I know what the next thing is, but, um, but that, that idea of guidance in the midst of our world right now and what, um, and what I feel God is calling even me to, and yes, the people around me to, um,

42:55.53
Nathan Pile
but that piece of, of some, some assistance in helping to guide me as I live and lead, um in the world right now yeah around the, you know, with the people that I'm, that I'm, that I serve among and with, um, the, the, my persistent ask is for guidance of, of what that looks like.

43:23.47
Nathan Pile
Um, and And, you know, selfishly, um I want the Holy Spirit to be a part of that, yes.

43:35.96
Nathan Pile
And I like the idea of your piece of unity. um But really, guidance is the bigger chunk. Like, God, if you could just really help, you know, and and I've joked about in my own... um In my own oh call as a

43:57.30
Nathan Pile
pastor, but even before pastor, just a leader in the church, um that I would like big flashing arrows, if God could drop those.

44:06.53
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:07.45
Nathan Pile
along the way in my life. Um, and this feels like one of those times again, of, of kind of like big flashing areas, arrows would help. I don't want the subtle guidance.

44:17.90
Nathan Pile
I want the big flashing arrow guidance of let's go this way.

44:18.90
Kevin Shock
Oh, well.

44:24.05
Nathan Pile
um kind of things. And, and, and though I know having lived through these seasons of my life, God doesn't really work through the big flashing.

44:34.66
Nathan Pile
It's more, it is the wandering in the wilderness. It is the, um, um, listening and, and seeking God and continuing to ask questions that, that makes that journey kind of happen.

44:50.42
Nathan Pile
Um,

44:53.54
Nathan Pile
But I think that as I read the question, the the thing that came up to me of of um of this phase of life for me, um as I as I move into, how do you how do how do we have it phrased now?

45:11.93
Nathan Pile
um Firmly in middle age. As I enter firmly into middle age, ah what is it that God is... um

45:25.22
Nathan Pile
calling me towards. And, and so providing some of that guidance would be helpful. Um, and in my own selfishness of kind of saying, you know, that would be really helpful.

45:31.01
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

45:35.50
Nathan Pile
and then I'll pray again for, um, unity and the Holy spirit. Uh, but if, if, um, if God could send some guidance, that would be really helpful right now.

45:47.90
Nathan Pile
Um,

45:50.83
Nathan Pile
as a part of that. And so from, for, and I would say this has been most of the summer and and even an early spring of kind of, because again, and I feel like that these aren't new topics to you and I, but like, what does God, like, I have a sense of what God is calling us to as cares for creation, but how can I be a part of that?

46:18.36
Nathan Pile
How can I use my gifts to help be a part of that? um the The struggles for justice in our um in our country right now, for you know how can I be ah part of that God? And so being able to to to you know but you know name all of the things that are Turmoil, but all of those things are the topics. So that that's that's where I'm seeking guidance of of how might I be

46:55.57
Nathan Pile
somewhere along the line is ah as a kid. I came into the idea, and and it is very much a part of what I feel called to as as a disciple of of Christ, um that I want to be all used up.

47:13.97
Nathan Pile
when, when my time on earth is, is done. And so this idea of how can, how can I use the gifts that God has given me to be of help, um, in this next, the second half of life.

47:31.42
Nathan Pile
Um, and what does that look like? And so, um, and so that, you know, that comes out of, you know, if I'm being completely transparent, it probably goes back to our Sustain retreat in February when we read the book about the second half of life.

47:46.98
Nathan Pile
um And that was kind of the center of our conversation together. um

47:51.62
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

47:53.38
Nathan Pile
I don't know if i had thought about that the second half of life in the ways that that book kind of inspired me to kind of think about it. And so those were probably the the first inklings of that.

48:02.50
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

48:05.95
Nathan Pile
And since then I've had several conversations about um other, you know, just of so- society society stresses and and and pushes and and these big community problems that we have um that I that I've talked about before of social medias and and cell phones and and climate change and um and and equality for all peoples.

48:38.60
Nathan Pile
um all of these are big community challenges. And so how, how might I be a part of, you know, not, you know, if it's one of them, one of them, but kind of trying to get a sense of what that guidance looks like. And so a reoccurring prayer for me has been that.

49:01.96
Nathan Pile
And, and as I talked about earlier to today, you know, in the midst of summer camp, sometimes it's hard to listen. um And so being to to keep praying so that I might be actively listening for what God is saying.

49:19.53
Nathan Pile
um

49:22.24
Nathan Pile
As I, as I seek and ask and knock um for what that, for what that is here in my own life.

49:35.07
Nathan Pile
So, um but guidance feels like ah

49:40.36
Nathan Pile
really good word um for, for, to kind of encompass all of those pieces.

49:47.24
Kevin Shock
yeah

49:50.14
Nathan Pile
And I, and I think probably it feels like,

49:56.59
Nathan Pile
Um, like, uh, it's probably, there's always probably a sense of, as you said, there's always a sense of wanting guidance as I, um live and lead.

50:09.50
Nathan Pile
but right in in this season, it it feels like a bigger, ah bigger ask or more frequently asked, um, um, prayer petition, uh, then, then, you know, 10 years ago or 15 years ago.

50:24.74
Nathan Pile
Um, there was a little bit more settledness maybe for me, um, in life in general, though I was asking for guidance. It might've been specific to, um, you know, to camp or to something in, in my personal life, uh, or family life.

50:45.45
Nathan Pile
But this feels ah like a little bit bigger, ask bigger ask of with everything that's going on, what's the way forward, God? Um, and i've And I've asked that more often um in the last six months than um then probably what I feel like I asked before.

51:06.97
Nathan Pile
So...

51:09.00
Kevin Shock
the The thing there that strikes me as odd, although I relate to what you're saying. um Well, no, not odd. Counterintuitive.

51:20.01
Kevin Shock
Is that it seems like maybe for both of us, the more that we have learned in this life, the more we understand our need to ask for guidance.

51:30.10
Nathan Pile
oh

51:31.81
Kevin Shock
Like it should seem like if if you if you're around longer, you learn more.

51:32.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

51:35.33
Kevin Shock
You don't have to ask for as much guidance. You kind of know, you know, you know your way around the block, you know how things go, but, um, but I, yeah, there's, there definitely seems to be a, um,

51:42.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

51:49.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Like, and so that'd be be an interesting question for some of our listeners that might um be even more mature than you and I. you know Do they get to, you know, is there, because it would be nice if I got to a place where I'm I'm not saying, dear God, help me with this.

52:05.90
Nathan Pile
um

52:05.95
Kevin Shock
oh

52:06.93
Nathan Pile
But I agree with you, the longer I've lived, the the more it seems like it's just a part of ah part of life that we would that we ask that that kind of

52:22.13
Nathan Pile
that we seek that, that we ask that question, we seek that kind of, of guidance moving forward.

52:31.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

52:34.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I definitely feel like the the more I know, the less know or what, what, wait, what, what's the phrase? the The more I know, the more I realize how much I realize how much I don't know.

52:47.17
Nathan Pile
Right.

52:47.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

52:48.06
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

52:51.72
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

52:52.49
Nathan Pile
So any other, yeah.

52:54.08
Kevin Shock
Well, ask, ask, seek, knock then I guess.

52:57.26
Nathan Pile
Ask, ask, seek, knock, and just keep doing it.

53:00.39
Kevin Shock
Yep.

53:02.86
Nathan Pile
Any other thoughts, reflections, my friend?

53:03.01
Kevin Shock
All right. I don't think so, except for some, uh, some additional texts that you can look at. Um, Genesis 18, 20 to 32, Abraham bargains with God for the righteous of Sodom and Gomorrah.

53:20.58
Kevin Shock
Uh, Psalm 138 is a Psalm about your steadfast love endures forever. Do not abandon the works of your hands. That's, I really like that last line of Psalm 138.

53:32.84
Kevin Shock
Don't, don't abandon the works of your hands.

53:33.03
Nathan Pile
Mm.

53:34.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah. That's, that's a guidance kind of Psalm. I feel like, um, From Colossians chapter 2, verses 6 through 19, buried with Christ in baptism, raised with him through faith.

53:48.29
Kevin Shock
And then our um semi-continuous readings, the one that look at broad sections of Hebrew scripture, Hosea chapter 1, verses 2 through 10, Hosea's marriage and a message to Israel.

54:02.16
Kevin Shock
ah Psalm 85, righteousness shall go before the Lord. Well, Nathan, and our in our firmly in middle age, um it's it's always good to get time to reflect with you and hear the reflections of other people too.

54:19.61
Kevin Shock
Maybe maybe the guidance, sometimes I think God gives guidance through other people. So we can always we can always benefit from one another's wisdom.

54:24.81
Nathan Pile
True. True that.

54:28.44
Kevin Shock
So we invite you to share your reflections with us and we hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

54:29.52
Nathan Pile
Yep.

54:34.26
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

54:35.62
Nathan Pile
And peace.