Episode 41: Luke 12:13-21

Translation: New English Translation (NET Bible)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?   

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you become rich toward God?

Additional texts:

Ecclesiastes 1:2, 12-14; 2:18-23

Psalm 49:1-12

Colossians 3:1-11

Hosea 11:1-11

Psalm 107:1-9, 43

Transcript

00:00:01.59
Nathan Pile
Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back.

00:00:07.45
Kevin Shock
Wow.

00:00:07.58
Nathan Pile
Kevin, you remember what that was?

00:00:07.69
Kevin Shock
Welcome back, Nathan.

00:00:09.27
Nathan Pile
What was that from? do you remember what that was from?

00:00:11.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Welcome back, Cotter.

00:00:12.68
Nathan Pile
Nice.

00:00:12.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:00:15.83
Nathan Pile
Yes.

00:00:15.90
Kevin Shock
I think maybe we referenced that on this show before. We have in our ah firmly in middle-aged lives, we have limited references that um the ah the teenagers don't get anymore.

00:00:26.02
Nathan Pile
They're not limited. We have a lot of references from our

00:00:28.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah, we do. We do.

00:00:30.37
Nathan Pile
from

00:00:30.73
Kevin Shock
We do.

00:00:31.11
Nathan Pile
our

00:00:31.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:00:31.86
Nathan Pile
our middle-agedness. um

00:00:33.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:00:34.73
Nathan Pile
So unfortunately, those of you that are younger than Kevin and I, you're like, we don't understand what that is. But those that might be a little bit older, it was a TV show back in the eighty s

00:00:44.83
Kevin Shock
Hmm. So that reminds me, um, last Saturday night, uh, Lisa and I went to have some dinner at a friend's house and, uh, we played a game that he brought back from Germany.

00:00:59.44
Kevin Shock
And I don't know if it's available in North America, but they make a, a, an English speaking North American version of it. That it, it's the first game I've seen that really appeals to like all the generations and it's, it's called Hitster.

00:01:13.54
Nathan Pile
oh yeah

00:01:16.08
Kevin Shock
And you start with one song, the artist, the song and the year. And then there's a person who's like the DJ who uses a QR code to play a song over a phone.

00:01:28.91
Kevin Shock
And you have to figure out where in the timeline, like before or after. And so you're adding these songs that you get more and more songs and you have to like your, you know, your spaces of where they come get narrower and narrower.

00:01:41.38
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:01:41.60
Kevin Shock
But the thing that the thing that I liked about it is it was songs from like the 1950s.

00:01:41.70
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:01:46.66
Kevin Shock
There was actually one song from like 1909 or something that I had no idea what it was, but ah from like the 1950s through like the So so You could have all generations that appeals to everyone has their niche.

00:01:59.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unless and unless they're under the age of 10, then they couldn't play.

00:02:05.81
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, no, this is definitely like a, like a teenager adult game. Yes. Yeah.

00:02:10.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:02:11.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yes. It's not. Yes. I'm sorry. Children who listened to this podcast, all zero of you. Um, this is,

00:02:19.92
Nathan Pile
Oh, there might be somebody. you don't know.

00:02:21.86
Kevin Shock
There might be, there might be, this is a message for the adults though.

00:02:22.49
Nathan Pile
don't know.

00:02:24.78
Kevin Shock
Anyway, it just reminded me because it doesn't matter if you have limited references, you could still play the game as a team.

00:02:34.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah, for those of you younger than 10 and younger, sorry that Kevin discounted you just a moment ago. We are glad that you listened to the podcast. um And that's why we're here today, actually.

00:02:42.67
Kevin Shock
I am.

00:02:44.29
Nathan Pile
um Not to talk about history and music and or games, though Kevin and I do have some bunny trails that we like to go down from time to time.

00:02:44.57
Kevin Shock
ah am

00:02:51.93
Nathan Pile
So um we ah today we are tending our spirit with the Bible passage, Luke.

00:02:52.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah, we do. We do. Yeah.

00:03:00.56
Nathan Pile
chapter 12 verses 13 through 21 Kevin and I are going to read it from the new English translation the NET Bible um you can follow along with whatever translation you have or you could go to Bible Gateway or use the app and follow along with the NET translation three questions that we'll discuss today what word phrase or image strikes you in this text toward what is God calling you in this text and how do you become rich toward God hmm

00:03:34.10
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:03:35.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:03:35.79
Kevin Shock
Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in the late 1970s to late 1990s reference phase, college and seminary educated.

00:03:52.91
Kevin Shock
we We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:04:05.32
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

00:04:17.14
Kevin Shock
As Nathan said, we are reading today from Luke 12, the New English translation, the Net Bible.

00:04:27.16
Kevin Shock
Then, Someone from the crowd said to Jesus, Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me. But Jesus said to him, Man, who made me a judge or arbitrator between you two?

00:04:41.42
Kevin Shock
Then he said to them, Watch out and guard yourself from all types of greed, because one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. He then told them a parable. The land of a certain rich man produced an abundant crop, so he thought to himself, what should I do, for I have nowhere to store my crops?

00:04:59.70
Kevin Shock
Then he said, I will do this. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods, and I will say to myself, you have plenty of goods stored up for many years. Eat, relax, eat, drink, celebrate.

00:05:15.41
Kevin Shock
But God said to him, you fool, this very night your life will be demanded back from you. But who will get what you have prepared for yourself? So it is with the one who stores up riches for himself, but is not rich toward God.

00:05:30.98
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group or another person, you can pause the podcast now and ask the questions of each other. Nathan, what word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:05:44.17
Nathan Pile
um Actually, it's the the request from the one who asks Jesus, so teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.

00:05:57.10
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:06:00.02
Nathan Pile
as you read it, it struck me. um

00:06:07.20
Nathan Pile
like it's, I know we do this as human beings. I know I do this as a human being of, I want to get a third opinion that is allied with me.

00:06:22.29
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:06:22.98
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:06:25.34
Nathan Pile
And reading this, or hearing you read it to me, kind of struck me of like, it's a curious thing that we do as human beings. um

00:06:37.70
Nathan Pile
Like forming allies, forming friends, forming neighbors. We accomplish great things ah in our communities. you know And and we've you know we've done things, we come together and we find um common connections and then and and then we go in and accomplish um something big or we make our community safer, we make our communities better.

00:07:03.13
Nathan Pile
But then we also try to do it just to prove ourselves right. like and And that's what's going on here.

00:07:09.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:07:11.60
Nathan Pile
like and so there's like a real healthy side to seeking these connections and these um these parallels that that that connect us to each other, that relate us to each other.

00:07:24.11
Nathan Pile
But then there's this really unhealthy side of, um I want this outside party to weigh in on an argument, a dispute that really has nothing to do with them.

00:07:36.10
Nathan Pile
um

00:07:36.76
Kevin Shock
Mhm

00:07:37.44
Nathan Pile
but so that I can make myself right. It's just, ah it's it was as as you read it, that it stuck out to me just, boy, yeah, don't we do this to each other? Like, like why you know, my response would have been, why you putting me in the middle of this?

00:07:55.18
Nathan Pile
Like, this isn't a, um what you're doing isn't a kindness to me. in any way, shape or form. and And essentially it's just serving you. It's not making the community stronger. It's not about building up our connections to each other or or making our lives better.

00:08:15.07
Nathan Pile
It's about making your life better. the one who is seeking to get the inheritance.

00:08:18.47
Kevin Shock
even

00:08:21.18
Nathan Pile
And yet we do this as human beings. We, we seek, you know, we have a word for it. And when we talk about, um, conflict management reckon and and reconciliation, it's called triangulation.

00:08:32.45
Nathan Pile
We're trying to get the third person to be on our side so that it's two on one.

00:08:36.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:08:38.31
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:08:38.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:08:38.98
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:08:39.16
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

00:08:40.37
Nathan Pile
And so it's in like it's an interesting piece. like I, I get why we have this instinct in ah in ourselves to to build a a group of allies, to make ourselves stronger, to be able to accomplish good things together.

00:08:56.71
Nathan Pile
But then we also use it in such ways that we're that we mean it to hurt someone else and make ourselves right. as in As in this situation. So I was just struck by like how that sticks out there. And and it doesn't matter that this is 2000 years ago.

00:09:14.22
Nathan Pile
um Like this person does what I do. When I want to be right, I go find somebody else to be on my side.

00:09:24.16
Nathan Pile
And then I'm going to drag that person into the situation and create triangulation and say, here, this person thinks I'm right.

00:09:24.69
Kevin Shock
Mm.

00:09:27.75
Kevin Shock
Mm. Mm-hmm.

00:09:31.69
Nathan Pile
There's two of us to your one um kind of a thing.

00:09:34.64
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:09:35.36
Nathan Pile
um And so and and we even talk about it. um And like a camp, we talk about it with if you only have three kids, so oftentimes three kids, two of them.

00:09:49.72
Nathan Pile
will will do the same thing. well Like if there's three of them playing with something, eventually one of them tries to ally up with somebody else and they try to exclude the third.

00:10:01.62
Nathan Pile
Not that not that that they're doing it intentionally, it's just

00:10:02.41
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:10:05.97
Nathan Pile
kind the nature of play eventually happens when it's with these younger kids. And and so being able to kind of teach them, no, no, no you know, this is where we teach lessons of sharing and, and being able to help, you know, to, to, to work with each other, to be kind to one another, you know, it's where we kind of bring these lessons in to teach kids, but there's just something like in, when you have four, it works out okay.

00:10:28.77
Nathan Pile
Because two and two can split and they can go play individually as as a group of ah of a pair and and they're fine. um But there's something about three that makes it more, um more there's more conflict.

00:10:43.96
Nathan Pile
So it's just an interesting an interesting piece here of this passage and and kind of how it struck me today as you were reading it.

00:10:51.92
Kevin Shock
that's and That whole thing about finding if there are three people, two of them ally against the third. is does that Have you read that somewhere? Is that your observation? Is that just common knowledge? what Where does that come from?

00:11:10.17
Nathan Pile
I'm not sure. what What are you asking me? Like kids? Are we talking about kids?

00:11:14.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. no you said you said when you have three kids together. Like, is that something that is written down somewhere that's like, this has been studied? Or is this something known in the camp world?

00:11:22.75
Nathan Pile
Oh, I don't, I don't have an immediate reference.

00:11:24.81
Kevin Shock
or

00:11:28.05
Nathan Pile
I can't imagine that it's not documented and been researched someplace.

00:11:32.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah, okay, okay.

00:11:33.71
Nathan Pile
um But I don't have that off the tip of my tongue. I just know it from...

00:11:37.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah, no, and I no I yeah I wasn't necessarily looking for a reference.

00:11:38.28
Nathan Pile
engaging kids all of the time. Yeah.

00:11:41.24
Kevin Shock
I just didn't know if it was something that you yourself had observed or if it's something that's talked about in the camp world

00:11:41.85
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:11:44.92
Nathan Pile
Well, I've absolutely observed it. Well, having my own daughter and a lot of times she's a one, she's one, there's only one of her, right?

00:11:49.55
Kevin Shock
Oh.

00:11:51.27
Nathan Pile
she We only one kid. And so when we would go play with other people, if it was one to one, it was fine. If it was one to three, it was fine. But when it was one and two, there was, and sometimes Rachel was the one doing the, like she would pair up with one of the other people and then putting somebody on the outside.

00:12:01.87
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:12:05.69
Kevin Shock
Oh.

00:12:14.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's what's it's it's interesting.

00:12:17.88
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:12:19.30
Nathan Pile
It's interesting to to have watched it happen, absolutely.

00:12:19.68
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:12:22.76
Nathan Pile
um But it it hasn't just happened in families. It happens with all kinds of kids here at camp.

00:12:27.41
Kevin Shock
Sure. Sure.

00:12:28.28
Nathan Pile
And so that's why we try to avoid that number three. We do try to avoid that number three.

00:12:31.94
Kevin Shock
Hmm. That's interesting.

00:12:33.38
Nathan Pile
If we, but if we're putting it like if we have a small age group of kids and and putting three kids in a cabin is not a good idea. It's not a good idea. So um like, if that's all you have, like it'd be better to go two and take the third one and put them in a different cabin um or find another one and put them in and have a group of four.

00:12:55.70
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

00:12:56.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I think it's not something that people would necessarily think of. Yeah.

00:13:03.74
Nathan Pile
Well, I think as you get older, like we've learned some of those dynamics, but when you're a kid still, you're still, you're, there's still that, you're still developing those pieces. But if anybody has actually knows of the research, give us a shout out somehow on social media or an email that we would love to hear it.

00:13:27.08
Nathan Pile
But I don't have any, I don't have any names of a researcher that I know that has done it recently.

00:13:30.58
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah, I was just curious.

00:13:33.54
Nathan Pile
But, yeah.

00:13:36.57
Nathan Pile
So, about you, my friend? What word, phrase, or image struck you in this passage?

00:13:41.81
Kevin Shock
Bigger barns. I I have I have too much to store in the barns that I have, so I'm going to build bigger ones. It seems like of all the things, um I guess, like for me, that that image is

00:14:00.89
Kevin Shock
is what really announces the value system of this person in the parable. Uh, there are so many decisions that could be made about what to do with the extra.

00:14:12.56
Kevin Shock
Um, and I, I honestly think that like when it comes to efficiency and things like that, I don't know that tearing down your old barns and building new, bigger ones is like the most productive way to go.

00:14:29.50
Kevin Shock
But it is, uh, it is the, it's the intuitive way to go. If all you're concerned about is hoarding wealth for yourself.

00:14:40.12
Kevin Shock
And, um, yeah. And I, I fear that that's, that's a value that Jesus obviously speaks out against, but a value that has become increasingly popular in our world today.

00:14:57.31
Kevin Shock
um

00:15:01.47
Kevin Shock
we we get we we have become obsessive about our possessions and our property, I think. Maybe not everywhere, but in what I've seen in in the in the world that I inhabit, you know, in this part of central Pennsylvania.

00:15:18.68
Kevin Shock
um

00:15:22.29
Kevin Shock
Lisa and I had a conversation earlier this week about um

00:15:28.83
Kevin Shock
in in our illustrious town's Facebook group, somebody posted something about, um, there was a woman and her child, uh, looking at, looking around our property and, um, know, someone had posted this in there and they said, you know, it, it looked like they were just looking at the leaves on the trees, but I'm not sure that they weren't up to something more nefarious.

00:15:56.59
Kevin Shock
And, and Lisa and I couldn't stop laughing. We were like, or a mother and her daughter could have just been looking at the leaves on the trees on your property. But it, but it, like, and then it was like, has anyone, has anyone else experienced this?

00:16:12.14
Kevin Shock
And, you know, and then, and no one else had, but then people were like, yeah, you can't, you can't trust anybody nowadays, you know, yeah like all this kind of stuff.

00:16:19.28
Nathan Pile
Oh my gosh.

00:16:20.48
Kevin Shock
And I, and I was like, oh my goodness gracious.

00:16:21.37
Nathan Pile
ah

00:16:23.71
Kevin Shock
And, and that led to a discussion of, Like, what what is people's obsession with having cameras up everywhere?

00:16:34.92
Nathan Pile
Mmmm

00:16:37.00
Kevin Shock
and And I understand that there are probably there are probably some security reasons for some people. But Nathan, we live in a hometown. Like, we live in a town. Lisa and I don't lock our doors during the day when we're gone for work.

00:16:52.34
Kevin Shock
I mean, granted, they'll they'll get a big bite in the face if they try to like come in and steal things.

00:16:56.87
Nathan Pile
Get in the house.

00:16:57.57
Kevin Shock
but

00:16:57.67
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

00:16:58.95
Kevin Shock
But I mean, you know we we lock up when we're leaving, when the whole family's leaving for an extended period of time. we We don't have any worries about you know someone just walking into our house.

00:17:11.02
Kevin Shock
um But we have plenty of neighbors on on a street where it's not like this is secluded either. I mean, there there are lots of eyes out there watching.

00:17:18.56
Nathan Pile
Right, right.

00:17:20.28
Kevin Shock
you know if someone sees suspicious suspicious activity. um But, you know, there, there have been houses that we we walk the dogs past and all the lights come on and, and, you know, and we, you see the camera light up and, and all this kind of stuff.

00:17:34.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:17:35.43
Kevin Shock
And I think what, like,

00:17:41.37
Kevin Shock
I understand that some people feel like they need to have that, but I guess what I'm, but what I wonder is why do we feel like we need to have that? And I'm not so sure that it has more to do with an external reality than an internal system of belief or feeling.

00:17:49.68
Nathan Pile
ah

00:18:00.59
Nathan Pile
um

00:18:01.73
Kevin Shock
Like, I think the, you know, I, I think that you and I have talked on here at some point about how research shows that our world is safer than it's ever been.

00:18:01.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:18:14.36
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yes.

00:18:15.98
Kevin Shock
or or I mean, not maybe not ever been, but

00:18:16.18
Nathan Pile
Uh huh. Yeah. There's still crime. There's still right there's still things, but.

00:18:19.87
Kevin Shock
but you're Right, right. not Not to say that that stuff's non-existent, but but like the the level of violent crime has dropped precipitously in the last 50 years, um all kinds of stuff.

00:18:31.94
Kevin Shock
But because we have the 24-hour news cycle and and you know and there are certain other things that didn't exist before, like school shootings that exist now, that make it certainly make it feel much more dangerous.

00:18:44.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:18:46.84
Kevin Shock
And I understand why the that that's the case. But but research shows that statistics show that, you know, the chance of like you having like, you know, being a victim of a burglary poor or like, you know, your your child being abducted or someone being assaulted, all of that has gone down again.

00:19:12.17
Nathan Pile
my

00:19:12.59
Kevin Shock
Not that it doesn't happen. But we are acting like it has gotten much, much worse.

00:19:18.03
Nathan Pile
Absolutely.

00:19:18.16
Kevin Shock
So, so the crime, isn't the thing, what I'm, what I'm concerned about is what the, what the perception is.

00:19:19.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:25.87
Kevin Shock
And there are probably things at fault for that, like, like the 24 hour news cycle and, and probably some other things too, just propaganda related kind of things that, you know, well, and, and, and commerce, right?

00:19:39.66
Kevin Shock
I mean, whoever,

00:19:41.56
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:19:41.99
Kevin Shock
Whoever got in on the ground floor of security systems and ring cameras, I mean, they're making a killing now.

00:19:48.35
Nathan Pile
my

00:19:48.76
Kevin Shock
Um, because you might have something happen at your house.

00:19:49.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah,

00:19:54.10
Nathan Pile
I had had lifeguards yesterday telling me that I needed to have a couple of ring cameras around the swimming pool um in case somebody was you know going to break into the pool and, I don't know, take a lifeguard tube.

00:20:07.72
Nathan Pile
yeah like like ah It's just like, ah no, I don't and don't need that. so

00:20:14.38
Kevin Shock
it It'd be nice, like, like putting a trail came up to see what kind of animals go through there would be interesting, but I don't think that you need like a security system around the pool.

00:20:15.92
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:20:20.31
Nathan Pile
You're right. Right. Right. And it's actually more interesting at the dumpster than it would be at the swimming pool. Um, cause the dumpster brings all kinds of animals.

00:20:27.41
Kevin Shock
Oh, sure. Of course. Yeah.

00:20:30.49
Nathan Pile
So, um, and then occasionally from time to time when we do have our neighborhood bear coming through, we do put it the camera up so we can just get pictures of her and her babies.

00:20:30.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right.

00:20:39.12
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:20:39.55
Nathan Pile
Um, yeah, it it is an interesting, is an interesting thing. This idea that we have to protect what is ours.

00:20:50.83
Kevin Shock
So, yeah, I, I say all that because I think that the bigger Barnes mentality is connected to the ring camera mentality.

00:20:59.52
Nathan Pile
I think so, I think so.

00:21:00.89
Kevin Shock
that That there's...

00:21:01.07
Nathan Pile
and and And you've told us that it's that this isn't something that's even defined um just for the wealthy or the rich who are building bigger barns.

00:21:10.90
Kevin Shock
No, no, no.

00:21:11.58
Nathan Pile
Because if we're running out to buy Ring cameras, um we are also living in the same fear as, Like somebody could take my stuff.

00:21:23.63
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right, right.

00:21:23.80
Nathan Pile
I need to have bigger barns so I can put my stuff in it. Well,

00:21:27.39
Kevin Shock
Billionaires don't buy room cameras. They hire security guards.

00:21:30.47
Nathan Pile
right. They have giant gates and security people that just watch 24 seven.

00:21:31.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:21:36.83
Nathan Pile
um

00:21:36.97
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:21:38.86
Nathan Pile
Kind of a thing. Yeah. So.

00:21:42.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, and that that that too is connected to possessions.

00:21:42.56
Nathan Pile
Oh yeah. Yeah.

00:21:47.46
Kevin Shock
I mean, the other the other end of the spectrum for... for um like people in my town and my area, we have a very interesting mix of people of different classes here in the town where I live.

00:22:05.62
Kevin Shock
Um, we have, you know, everybody at different periods of life who are ranging from, I think it's safe to say upper middle class in some situations.

00:22:06.12
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:22:19.74
Kevin Shock
Um, to people who are struggling to make ends meet and, you know, and, and, uh, and definitely like need things like the monthly food distribution and, and other food distributions that happen in between and, and all that kind of stuff. And, and those people are people that range from people who have retired with a nice nest egg with a bigger barn.

00:22:45.34
Kevin Shock
And people who have retired and they don't really have a lot of, they ah try to eke by on their social on their dwindling social security payments.

00:22:45.53
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:22:54.37
Kevin Shock
um So one thing that I noticed though, as I walk, and we were having we're having this conversation in our friend's house, because they live in town here, ah how they're even in this tiny town where we live, there are definitely sections where you see a mixture of middle-class and more towards poverty.

00:23:16.25
Kevin Shock
And then there are sections where there are, you won't see any impoverished houses or houses with impoverished people living in them.

00:23:19.99
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah.

00:23:23.21
Kevin Shock
um But one thing I've noticed is that in some of the places where it's clear that there's, you know, they struggle a little bit. It's also clear that in some of those places, there's, they're like hoarding situations happening.

00:23:39.05
Nathan Pile
now

00:23:39.05
Kevin Shock
And, it' It's interesting to me that like the the amount of stuff that people have is not necessarily connected to the amount of money they have to pay for that stuff. um

00:23:52.83
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:23:54.10
Kevin Shock
And I don't know if it's a... I mean, I know that hoarding is like a real like mental illness problem, like hoarding itself. but But I think, I wonder if before you get to that level of it, if there's some kind of value that says got to hold on to what I have.

00:24:13.26
Kevin Shock
um

00:24:13.37
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:24:13.91
Kevin Shock
and there's There's like a control issue there or there's or it's just a value that like, you know, the um I might find a use for this one day or this might end up being valuable to me one day, even though I'm not using it now, even though it's just, you know, sitting outside on my porch or something like that.

00:24:24.15
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:24:27.96
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

00:24:31.77
Kevin Shock
But yeah.

00:24:33.12
Nathan Pile
Well, do think we have that, you know, like my grandmother was that way. I'm sure I've talked about that before. Grandma and her meat trays, like, you know, when you buy ground beef at the at the grocery store, they put it on those styrofoam trays.

00:24:40.39
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:24:43.92
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:24:45.35
Nathan Pile
Well, like my dad and I went down to the basement one time and like she just had stacks of them. And we say, Kramer, what are you doing with these? She's like, well, they do all kinds of things. I put them, she puts them underneath a, would put them underneath a pot. Like she put a plant in a pot.

00:25:02.87
Nathan Pile
And so it would catch the water if she overfilled the, you know, kind of thing.

00:25:04.84
Kevin Shock
Oh. Yeah. yeah

00:25:06.47
Nathan Pile
And she's like, well, sometimes I make Christmas ornaments out of them.

00:25:07.40
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:25:09.73
Nathan Pile
I'm like, what? Out of a meat tray? What are we, yeah. but But she also grew up in the ah Depression. And so ah part of their a part of their value was you didn't throw anything away because you might be able to use it for something.

00:25:18.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yep. Mm-hmm.

00:25:23.69
Nathan Pile
And so like we joked with her that she was a hoarder because when dad and I saw trays of meat things in the basement, we would one of us would go upstairs and talk to her and the other one would take it out the basement door and throw it in our car so we could go throw it away.

00:25:36.48
Nathan Pile
um

00:25:36.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:25:37.42
Nathan Pile
Because you're like, there's no reason to have you know stacks and stacks of You can have a stack of meat trays, grandma, I guess, if you really... need them, but stacks and stacks of it, absolutely not. so But like there is something again in who we are um of doing that. And and even um Angie, my wife will say at times like, oh, don't get rid of that. I might need that later.

00:26:07.97
Nathan Pile
And I'd be like, what could we possibly use this for? You never know. And then of course she just feels vindicated when she can pull something out of the basement that she's put down there.

00:26:19.27
Nathan Pile
And it's like, see, i knew we could use this.

00:26:20.29
Kevin Shock
That's useful. Yeah.

00:26:23.26
Nathan Pile
And i was like, just lucky you got it before I did.

00:26:23.84
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:26:27.04
Nathan Pile
um

00:26:29.69
Nathan Pile
Kind of thing. So, but there is this sense of, of being able to have and keep what we do have. And, and um yeah, that,

00:26:43.36
Nathan Pile
stuff is is important for us as human beings.

00:26:50.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:26:50.76
Nathan Pile
Like there's definitely stuff that I I can't get rid of. There's definitely things that other people would be like Nathan why are you keeping that and and and I probably don't have a really good reason for it other than to say oh it brings back a memory or it's

00:26:59.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

00:27:07.23
Nathan Pile
I could use it for something or that thing still has value, right? But it probably doesn't have value to me. It's been in my garage for five years. I've never used it. I probably am not going to use it in the next 50 years if I haven't used it in the first five kind of a thing. so um So there's definitely things like that that are that I know I also have the weakness around. And so there's something about this idea of that that does connect me in this story um of, oh, I need a little bit bigger barn.

00:27:40.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:40.71
Nathan Pile
need little bit biggerer by

00:27:41.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:42.97
Nathan Pile
um

00:27:44.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And, and I guess there's, I mean, that just makes me think too, that we can, we kind of live into the space that we have, don't we?

00:27:51.54
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. Absolutely. When I was living out of my car, I only had enough stuff that could fit in my car.

00:27:54.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:57.71
Nathan Pile
um Not like literally, but like when I moved a lot, like every couple of months I was moving.

00:28:00.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:01.79
Nathan Pile
And so you're kind of like, well, how you kept your stuff. But like I came out of seminary, I think I could have put all of my stuff in half of ah of the smallest moving truck in the small, smallest U-Haul truck.

00:28:13.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

00:28:14.52
Nathan Pile
I could put all of my stuff. I could pack it in there really solid, but I would only use about half of it. And then I got married and we lived in a parish house.

00:28:20.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:28:25.17
Nathan Pile
And in seven years, seven years, it took three moving trucks for us to move out. It was insane. It was insane.

00:28:35.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:28:35.97
Nathan Pile
It was three, or seven years, seven years.

00:28:36.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:28:39.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:28:39.43
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:28:39.56
Kevin Shock
I don't know if I mentioned it though, but Lisa and I are working on ah updating the, our home office to make it a more usable space. Cause it, it has become the, like, this is where all the stuff gets dumped.

00:28:51.95
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:28:52.09
Kevin Shock
um And, and that room housed all of my books that I'll read eventually. and And records and cassettes and CDs.

00:29:06.97
Kevin Shock
ah Sorry, kids. Those are things that used to exist.

00:29:08.33
Nathan Pile
A good cassette. I love when you put it, when you can watch Welcome Back, Kata and put in a cassette, baby.

00:29:14.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:29:14.97
Nathan Pile
Those 80s.

00:29:15.19
Kevin Shock
Well, all right.

00:29:15.78
Nathan Pile
Those were nice.

00:29:15.87
Kevin Shock
sure um

00:29:16.26
Nathan Pile
Those are good days.

00:29:18.33
Kevin Shock
But all the things that, you know, so like years ago when I was in high school, college, um you know, I would buy physical music and and like read the liner notes. And like, you know, all of those things had meaning for me.

00:29:32.55
Kevin Shock
And so my criteria, now the records, I haven't gotten rid of any records. I'm not going to do that because that's, no.

00:29:38.80
Nathan Pile
I'm not going to do that. you You all heard it here first. He's not going to do that. Vinyl, he's keeping forever.

00:29:43.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to keep the vinyl. It has a different, anyway, anyway. um But my, my criterion for ah cassettes and CDs was if I have this on digital in digital form anywhere, it's leaving the house, which, which was a big, it was a big hurdle for me to get over because, because I used to years ago, like that was a, that was a source of relaxation that was de-stressing, but I, but I had to be honest with myself.

00:30:04.35
Nathan Pile
Okay.

00:30:19.07
Kevin Shock
I haven't done that for 20 years. um maybe not 20, but certainly 15 years.

00:30:21.91
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:30:24.34
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:30:24.40
Kevin Shock
And so if I have the music, I get rid of the physical thing. Well, Lisa came in as I was like getting near the end of clearing this stuff out. And she said, It's a band she likes.

00:30:34.98
Kevin Shock
And she said, Oh, you're not getting rid of this CD. Are you? And I was like, don't start with me because I will find a justification to keep every one of these CDs.

00:30:44.65
Kevin Shock
If you start saying, well, not this one. and it wasn't even her CD. It was my, it was all my stuff. So, um, yeah, so that's been like that, that was hard, but in the long run, I don't think I'm going to regret it.

00:30:55.33
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:30:57.90
Kevin Shock
And we're going to have like a more usable space, but, but I,

00:30:58.32
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure. Right.

00:31:02.13
Kevin Shock
ah like I consider it a blessing that we live in a house that is not, it doesn't have a lot of extra room in it because it means we don't just collect stuff.

00:31:10.56
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:31:14.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:31:14.78
Kevin Shock
Or if we get to a point where we have been collecting stuff, then we have to make a decision about, okay, this doesn't really fit in here anymore. So now we got to do something with it.

00:31:22.08
Nathan Pile
No. Yeah.

00:31:22.77
Kevin Shock
So anyway, yeah. ah Like I, but I get, i get if we, if we had bought a house with an extra bedroom or an extra bathroom and you know, like it, the situation would be different.

00:31:35.03
Kevin Shock
It's that, it's that bigger barn scenario.

00:31:37.42
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:31:37.47
Kevin Shock
So, yeah.

00:31:38.47
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:31:40.55
Kevin Shock
And you know that, that the rich man in that parable filled those bigger barns.

00:31:45.87
Nathan Pile
Killed the bigger body.

00:31:45.96
Kevin Shock
He did, there wasn't any room left in him.

00:31:47.05
Nathan Pile
That was the goal.

00:31:47.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:31:48.25
Nathan Pile
That was the goal.

00:31:48.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, why don't we read it a second time? Cause I think we could probably go on all this stuff.

00:31:54.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah. For a while. Yeah.

00:31:55.23
Kevin Shock
Um, yep. Okay. Your turn, right?

00:31:57.49
Nathan Pile
right. Yep. Then someone from the crowd said to him, teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me But Jesus said to him, man, who made me a judge?

00:32:08.38
Kevin Shock
man

00:32:10.08
Nathan Pile
Man, who made me a judge or arbiter between you two? Then he said to them, watch out and guard yourself from the all from all types of greed, because one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.

00:32:28.23
Nathan Pile
He then told them a parable. The land of a certain rich man produced an abundant crop. So he thought to himself, what should I do? For I have nowhere to store my crops.

00:32:39.20
Nathan Pile
Then he said, I will do this. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones. And there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to myself, you have plenty of goods stored up for many years.

00:32:53.99
Nathan Pile
Relax, eat, drink, celebrate. But God said to him, you fool, this very night your life will be demanded back from you, but who will get what you have prepared for yourself?

00:33:06.99
Nathan Pile
So it is with the one who stores up riches for himself but is not rich toward god

00:33:16.35
Nathan Pile
Kevin toward what is god calling you in this text

00:33:20.83
Kevin Shock
um I think it's not to get so wrapped up in storing things. um Or maybe, okay, brever- brevity is the soul of wit, right? ah To not get so wrapped up in things.

00:33:37.77
Kevin Shock
um

00:33:37.83
Nathan Pile
to not get so wrapped up in things.

00:33:38.43
Kevin Shock
Just this parable reminds me of another conversation that Lisa and I had earlier. we had a We had kind of an unexpected bill come up, and you know it wiped out a...

00:33:49.73
Kevin Shock
good part of our savings. We had the money for it, but, but it, you know, made it made a dent. And so we had a conversation about, you know, well, are there ways that we could be saving more money and, you know, cuts that we could make? Of course, there are always cuts that can be made, like you know, lifestyles that can change a little bit. um You know we like they're definitely things that we we pay for out of convenience sake.

00:34:18.69
Kevin Shock
ah But the one thing we agreed on. Was, you know, Lisa said to me at one point, like she she uses a considerable amount of money like she's she spent she spends our personal money on her staff.

00:34:36.83
Kevin Shock
And like does things like buys them lunch or, or like if, you know, if they're having ah if they're having a party and there's not like, she'll, she'll supplement what, what may be in the budget to like, make it a really memorable thing.

00:34:51.63
Kevin Shock
And she said to me, as we were having this conversation, I don't want to stop doing that. And I said, I don't think you should stop doing that. Like, it's something that it's something that brings you joy, something that's important to you, something that it's a different kind of investment.

00:35:07.27
Kevin Shock
it it creates It creates a staff that gels more and spends more time together.

00:35:07.47
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:35:12.44
Kevin Shock
And and um and I think that she's seen the benefit of that. And you know and my my counterpart is, I don't want to... um you know we use We use money that we put into the church and and ministries like Sequanota and like Lutheran Campus Ministry.

00:35:33.87
Kevin Shock
We don't want to cut back on any of those things either.

00:35:36.44
Nathan Pile
right

00:35:36.91
Kevin Shock
Now we could, we could, and we could, and we could like really start saving toward retirement, you know, like so in, in, in bigger and better quote unquote better ways.

00:35:43.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:35:47.39
Kevin Shock
But, um but we would have to give up some things that are really important to us ah to, to our values, I guess I should say.

00:35:56.74
Nathan Pile
sure

00:35:56.92
Kevin Shock
not Not just not just two our, not to our comfort or to our the the the ease of life, but actually that would be in contrast to the things that we value.

00:36:09.81
Kevin Shock
And um so I think um I think it's I think it's an easy thing to get wrapped up in, you know to look at a bank account and say, ah well, I should probably save more money.

00:36:25.04
Kevin Shock
But I guess for me, the question is, am I living the life that I feel called to live? And if that's the case, then maybe it's okay that like, I'm not doing what the world expects me to do.

00:36:40.38
Nathan Pile
no

00:36:41.51
Kevin Shock
Um, so yeah. So I think, I think, yeah, not to not be so focused on things, but to think about how how the possessions that we have can be, and for a lot of us nowadays, that means money and in our modern context.

00:37:00.55
Kevin Shock
Um, but to think how that can also be used to build up relationships and not just storing things. So

00:37:11.49
Kevin Shock
yeah.

00:37:11.65
Kevin Shock
What about you, Nathan? Toward, what is this text calling you?

00:37:14.90
Nathan Pile
Well, it's usually um every year. So I try to do a little bit of purging of my own things. And I probably haven't done it in at least two years. And so this spring, as, as spring was, as I was getting ready for summer camp, um, I just didn't have the time to do it again, but I had that hankering to do it. Um, and, and this reading makes me like, want to get back to it again. So, um, so that like, cause I do like over time, I, I know that I collect like, it's just, it's you know, camp t-shirts and, and things that I wear in the summer, but like,

00:37:54.49
Nathan Pile
I don't need to have 60 t-shirts, um

00:37:58.77
Kevin Shock
Hm hm hm

00:37:59.52
Nathan Pile
you know, kind of a thing. And I've even gotten in the habit over the last couple of several years because I used to just like wear every t-shirt and then I would go do laundry. um And so like it would take,

00:38:13.73
Nathan Pile
near a month to get through all of my can all of my different t-shirts um until I started to kind of do this you know started to kind of purge some of this and so like I keep t-shirts for you know

00:38:18.49
Kevin Shock
hm

00:38:26.24
Nathan Pile
for about four or five years and then they go into the work pile um and they might get another year or two out of them there. But after two years of being a work t-shirt, I've destroyed it um with either a stain or something on the front of it that yeah after a while you just got like, you can't I'm not going to put that on the kind of a thing or it's got giant holes in it or whatever.

00:38:39.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:38:49.49
Nathan Pile
And so So you like you have those kinds of things, that so like but like I have to keep after it. otherwise it just Otherwise, I'm like folding up my laundry and stuffing it in the drawer so I can get the drawer shut.

00:39:04.84
Nathan Pile
um and And I've definitely had days like that where I'm like, okay, I've done all my laundry.

00:39:07.48
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:39:10.08
Nathan Pile
I feel really good. And then I'm loading it into the drawer and I'm like, how am I getting this drawer closed? um like I need to really go through this. drawer again and kind of a thing and so I have several drawers like that that need to be gone through and I just haven't gotten to it and so um some of this is um

00:39:18.53
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:39:30.82
Nathan Pile
it's it's like you I would call it housekeeping organizing whatever minimalism um you know kind of deciding not that I'm a mini minimalist obviously if I have 60 t-shirts um but like how do I how do I get myself How do I pare back again?

00:39:49.45
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and do it again. And cause the reality is it like, it'll grow back. I've done, I've lived here now for 13 summers. And so I've done this multiple times, at least three or four.

00:40:01.69
Nathan Pile
Um, and and, and, and it never ceases to amaze me that my t-shirt drawer fills back up again, um, over the course of three or four years and I have to do it again.

00:40:08.03
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:40:11.92
Nathan Pile
And so, um, being able to kind of say, okay, it's time to do this again. um And and

00:40:22.32
Nathan Pile
do that to the drawer, do it to you know the house, do it to my closets, do it to the garage. Because again, all of these different places become places where I just walk in and put stuff down and then run to the next thing. And so do I really need whatever...

00:40:38.27
Nathan Pile
that item is, if it's going to sit there for how long. So like this passage reminds me that part of of being blessed is also to be able to kind of say, do am I really using this anymore?

00:40:52.00
Nathan Pile
Can I give it to somebody else that might use it, if I'm not really using it?

00:40:54.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:40:56.02
Nathan Pile
And if there's like there's definitely times that there's clothes that were sometimes I bought them for myself. Sometimes somebody else bought them for me and I'm like, I've never I've worn this one time in seven years.

00:41:07.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:41:08.69
Nathan Pile
So it's like brand new.

00:41:08.81
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:41:09.49
Nathan Pile
It looks like a brand new shirt. And you're kind of like this, this needs to go to somebody else that will appreciate it because I obviously do not. um But like that takes time to do for us. And I haven't been good again in the last couple of years. I'm not doing that. And so, um,

00:41:27.35
Nathan Pile
But it does kind of also think cause me to kind of think about, well, how else in life, what are the other parts of life that need some housekeeping um in my own life? and Not so much that I have to clean it out, but just taking the the intentional time to look at it and say,

00:41:45.89
Nathan Pile
Is this as important as I'm saying or claiming that it is? Whatever it might be.

00:41:50.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:51.26
Nathan Pile
but I'm giving it it I'm I'm giving it space or I'm giving it time in my schedule.

00:41:52.01
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:41:56.55
Nathan Pile
Is it really important? important. And so being able to kind of evaluate that, because I think when I'm not when I'm not evaluating it, when I'm not intentionally in value, evaluating it, it just gets it's left there, it stays in the it stays in the drawer, or it stays in my schedule.

00:42:17.94
Nathan Pile
Because I haven't really thought about it, I haven't really contemplated. um the space that it's taking up and if it if I really value it in the way that it that it needs to be valued.

00:42:30.04
Nathan Pile
And so. um Being able to kind of do that for myself.

00:42:40.06
Nathan Pile
But it's just I think it will make me healthier. Again, it goes back to that stuff I was talking about earlier in the first but around the first question stuff of like,

00:42:45.94
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:42:54.49
Nathan Pile
Healthy Nathan is a better Nathan. um Like, and I was talking about either socially or emotionally um here when we talked about triangulation and so forth, those kinds of things.

00:43:08.22
Nathan Pile
What are the things that I need to do to be a little healthier? Yeah. Meaning that i've that I've done that intentional kind of, is this important to me? Is this worth keeping in my house? Is it worth me keeping it in my my my schedule or on my calendar?

00:43:25.73
Nathan Pile
um And so being able to kind of free myself up and it does feel that way when I've, when I've actually done this process in the past, I always feel freer, a little lighter.

00:43:38.90
Nathan Pile
Um, like I'm not carrying extra things around that I don't need to be carrying around. Um, And so how do I make sure that I make time to do that again here as I after this busy season?

00:43:52.36
Nathan Pile
How do I do that again for myself? Because it does it is freeing to to reduce the load that I carry.

00:44:00.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it is. It is freeing, which makes me wonder why we don't do it much more often.

00:44:06.97
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I agree.

00:44:07.32
Kevin Shock
um But but but I think part of the reason is exactly what you say is that it takes time.

00:44:08.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:44:13.19
Kevin Shock
it It takes time. And you said something else earlier in your reflection that made me think um that we we oftentimes hold on to things because we name them as important.

00:44:29.41
Kevin Shock
But I don't know if we spend a lot of time thinking about why we think they're important. um Because useful, like... your grandmother's meat trays and all of the, and all the other stuff that, I mean, she didn't have any sentimental value for those meat trays.

00:44:47.56
Nathan Pile
No, there was no sentimental.

00:44:47.85
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:44:48.96
Nathan Pile
It was just, I might need it for something.

00:44:51.13
Kevin Shock
yeah, but that's, that's different than, um, so well, usefulness is different than sentimentality.

00:44:51.58
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:44:58.16
Kevin Shock
And, and I'm not saying that one is better than the other, but I think if we, if we judged,

00:45:01.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:45:05.27
Kevin Shock
what we hang on to not just on a snap judgment of this is important if we think about why it's important and take a little time to unpack if it if I think it's important for this reason is it really important to me or is just the idea of hanging on to it important because I think that that happens sometimes too yeah I mean I you know I

00:45:24.97
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:45:29.92
Kevin Shock
there are I have my own t-shirt drawer it doesn't have 60 in it but you know that's a good number and there are times when I move it move some to the uh to the this is my outside working in the yard getting sweaty ah just this year I have I have a classic Sequanota

00:45:42.81
Nathan Pile
Ooh.

00:45:49.70
Kevin Shock
like land of many waters, not, not the camp seal, but, but a very classic design on a shirt.

00:45:53.76
Nathan Pile
Ooh. o Yeah. Nice.

00:45:57.92
Kevin Shock
And I finally took that shirt from the, the the good t-shirt and moved it over the work shirt because it's, because it's just getting, it's getting worn.

00:46:01.14
Nathan Pile
The work shirt. Wow.

00:46:07.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah, sure.

00:46:08.21
Kevin Shock
It's getting worn.

00:46:08.45
Nathan Pile
I was going to say, you said it was a classic style. That means it has to have been around for a while. So like it's been in your drawer for,

00:46:12.99
Kevin Shock
It has been. yeah I've had it for a while. Yeah, I think I think I found it or someone found it for me years ago that um and. and Well, yeah, no, I can think of who it was, so it has been a while.

00:46:28.80
Kevin Shock
And I and I I wear it I wear it fairly often, but it's it's starting to get, know, it has a couple of stains on the front. It's starting to get a little threadbare. So I was like, I think this just has to go to the yard work pile.

00:46:37.18
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:40.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:46:41.09
Kevin Shock
and and And part of me felt bad about that because like this, you know, I want to enshrine this shirt forever.

00:46:41.47
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:46:48.03
Kevin Shock
but

00:46:48.25
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:46:50.44
Kevin Shock
but a part of...

00:46:50.51
Nathan Pile
Well, it's like your CDs that you said earlier. it's your CDs. Like we can justify it for, we can justify holding onto for lots of different reasons.

00:46:53.00
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:46:57.85
Nathan Pile
Like we have to give ourselves that, and that intentional moment to say, I'm going to, I'm changing how this is classified.

00:46:58.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:47:05.27
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:06.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:47:06.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah. and And part of the reason was I have, I have a newer Sequanota shirt that I wear. That's a nice shirt. So yeah. So I don't need that to be my nice Sequanota shirt anymore, but any who.

00:47:14.26
Nathan Pile
No,

00:47:17.58
Nathan Pile
no. All right, well, let's it a third time here.

00:47:21.63
Kevin Shock
Okay. From Luke chapter, oops, uh, 12. Yeah. I saw 13, but that's verse 13 Luke chapter 12. Then someone from the crowd said to him, teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.

00:47:36.15
Kevin Shock
But Jesus said to him, man, who made me a judge or arbitrator between you two? just love that translation. um

00:47:43.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:47:44.80
Kevin Shock
I know it's like, it's it is like man, like like male human being.

00:47:48.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:47:49.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um Oh, oh.

00:47:51.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah. We might even say it.

00:47:52.05
Kevin Shock
and

00:47:52.90
Nathan Pile
We might even say it as dude.

00:47:55.82
Kevin Shock
yeah Well, okay. So... net bible copious footnotes the footnote for next to that is uh this term of address can be harsh or gentle depending on the context here it is a rebuke okay so man i don't i don't know how to i don't know how to say that with making it sound harsh yeah

00:48:10.12
Nathan Pile
Here. This is a review.

00:48:16.28
Nathan Pile
i am Yeah.

00:48:19.47
Kevin Shock
Man, man, who made me to be a judge or arbitrator between you two? Then he said to them, watch out and guard yourself from all types of greed, because one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.

00:48:33.44
Kevin Shock
He then told them a parable. The land of a certain rich man produced an abundant crop. So he thought to himself, what should I do for I have nowhere to store my crops? Then he said, I will do this. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones. And there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I will say to myself, “You have plenty of goods stored up for many years; relax, eat, drink, celebrate!”

00:48:56.58
Kevin Shock
but god said to him you fool this very night your life will be demanded back from you but who will get what you have prepared for yourself so it is with the one who stores up riches for himself but is not rich toward god. Um Nathan, how do you become rich toward God?

00:49:16.99
Nathan Pile
um I think it has to do with less stuff and more people connection.

00:49:30.83
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:49:31.42
Nathan Pile
um And we don't necessarily hear that here other than um that I think in some of the judgment that's here, like when you when you hoard it up for yourself, when you make it all about you, um you know, God calls you a fool because

00:49:53.76
Nathan Pile
you're gonna you're going to lose it all eventually.

00:49:58.37
Nathan Pile
And so there's some there's there's some um piece of, in this translation even, there's there's some piece of of judgment that is being ah handed down for the one who is

00:50:14.03
Nathan Pile
only worried about themselves. Um, but I think the, you know, if you're to simplify it, um, less stuff is, is more here.

00:50:26.94
Nathan Pile
Um, and I think if it was, I'm collecting things for the people of my community or for the people of my neighborhood. So the people, you know, there's, there would be a different motivation behind the person, but here the, um,

00:50:42.52
Nathan Pile
here, both in the person asking the, for, for Jesus to join his side and in the parable, the, the idea of just getting more for myself is selfish. It's greedy.

00:51:00.35
Nathan Pile
It's all of the, the, um, of the horrible things that at times has been associated with riches. Um,

00:51:12.95
Nathan Pile
And so we're being, there's a piece of warning in this ah that hoarding for ourselves or collecting, gathering, storing for our for our own, only for us puts too much distance between us and and the way God is intending for us to live.

00:51:41.84
Nathan Pile
Yeah. And so being able to figure out how we make less um a part of our lives is important.

00:51:54.43
Nathan Pile
um Again, this is this is a translation that has a copious amount of notes in here. And if you like like if you're not looking at this as you're listening to this,

00:52:05.60
Nathan Pile
um we have enough letter notes that go from A to the letter U in these eight verses.

00:52:15.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah, in eight versus, right? Yeah.

00:52:17.74
Nathan Pile
So each verse has at least two, if not three or more um notes on it. And so the translators are really kind of helping us um kind of pick this apart.

00:52:30.34
Nathan Pile
And, and boy, what's really power hard, I think hard for us is ah we like our culture that an American culture is a about more, more is better.

00:52:44.88
Nathan Pile
Um, at least more stuff is better, you know, getting it for the right, a cheap price, being able to, to, to bring it home and, and have it, it's better.

00:52:57.70
Nathan Pile
and that, that's very opposite of what this passage is about. Um,

00:53:06.39
Nathan Pile
The more, in God's terms, has to do with relationships and with other people.

00:53:14.03
Nathan Pile
um That's where more is important to God.

00:53:20.03
Nathan Pile
for the the But more stuff is definitely our way. It's definitely not God's way. more people, more more connection with one another, um that's that's important.

00:53:36.35
Nathan Pile
But more more things, more possessions, um more money, that's just greed.

00:53:45.79
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:53:45.85
Nathan Pile
and And it's hard

00:53:50.23
Nathan Pile
at times to

00:53:55.57
Nathan Pile
like as a, for me as an American Christian, that I, I have that desire of, you know, somebody advertised markets to me specifically. um ah And I'm like, Ooh, that's not that new shiny thing. I need to have that, whatever it is.

00:54:12.76
Nathan Pile
um And there are times that, that, that it's so shiny that I can't resist um as a part of my life. And, and, and so how do we,

00:54:26.34
Nathan Pile
as Christians today, how do we, how do we push back a little bit on that? Um, because it is very like, again, I'm ingrained in it, in this culture.

00:54:32.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:35.26
Nathan Pile
And, you know, I talk about it with staff as it's when you drink the Kool-Aid, you know, you, you've you, you, you've bought into whatever the marketing scheme is and you, you, you bought the Kool-Aid and you're going to drink the Kool-Aid.

00:54:48.46
Nathan Pile
And so, um, there are

00:54:52.60
Nathan Pile
more stuff, um, having more stuff. There's absolutely um weeks of my life, days of my life. um This year, last year, decades ago, where I bought in wholeheartedly and I was like, oh, I I need that thing, whatever it is.

00:55:11.67
Nathan Pile
And so how do I how do I push back? How do I be intentional? As we just talked about in the second question, how do we be intentional about saying, do I really need this? can i Can I move it on to someplace else?

00:55:26.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry for the background noise. My dogs have just decided that they need to wrestle with each other. So thankfully, they moved it to the next room over. But um there may be background noise.

00:55:39.45
Kevin Shock
um

00:55:43.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I'm sorry. I got distracted. Now I can't think of what there was something I was going to respond to and what you said. um I think it was that notion of more. um We always think of more in terms of stuff and and more can be time, more can be attention, more can be all kinds of things that are, are you know, and and thinking about what's important, I guess, ah you know, we have we're given lists of things in scripture, like the fruits of the spirit and the gifts of the spirit. Like like being

00:56:15.86
Kevin Shock
being being more gentle is better than being rich. I that's Those are the things that like when we read them, when we look at them, it makes sense. But then when we try to live them out, it it we we are so influenced by the values of the world that it's hard for us to get over that, get past that.

00:56:37.32
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, well, actually, one thing I was thinking about was when you were talking about the behind the newest thing. I remember at one point in my young adult life at post seminary when I.

00:56:48.96
Kevin Shock
um and And this was before I was on Facebook and you know the algorithm and all that kind of stuff, too. It's gotten even worse where I realized that I owned a Mac PowerBook. I drove a Volkswagen.

00:57:01.43
Kevin Shock
I was like, oh, hey, targeted advertising does work because everything that everything that generation X was supposed to own and drive and utilize, I was, I was doing.

00:57:06.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:13.06
Kevin Shock
so um

00:57:14.45
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:57:15.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah. It, I mean, it's amazing how we're influenced and we don't even realize we're influenced. Um, but in any case, so to answer the third question, I think, yeah, I, I would just echo what you said that there, there are ways. And I think another word that, that I used earlier, uh, is something I want to lift up here and that's investment.

00:57:39.33
Kevin Shock
um We often think of investment in financial terms, but but we invest lots of other things. And those two things I just mentioned, time and attention are huge.

00:57:45.12
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:48.88
Kevin Shock
um

00:57:49.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:57:50.21
Kevin Shock
I I remember just recently, yeah, not I remember, just recently I saw um when actually when I was reading these ah before we even started recording, I thought of this one of our Someone I'm friends with on Facebook. Oh, who's ah who's a listener to this podcast or at least has listened to this podcast? I know Olivia.

00:58:11.68
Kevin Shock
um I saw a post from a vacation that they were doing or something. and And one of her comments was, we made lots of deposits in the the most important bank, the memory bank.

00:58:22.15
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:58:22.32
Kevin Shock
And I thought, oh, that's like a really, yeah, that's a good way to that's a good way to talk about investment of something that is other than stuff.

00:58:24.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:31.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:58:31.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:58:34.27
Nathan Pile
Well, and and the thinking about that relationship or those connections as just as just as important, just as um

00:58:46.40
Nathan Pile
as critical of an investment as a lot of times we hear about or read about how and important our money investments are. But how do we how do we make those investments? I love that language of deposits in the appropriate bank, you know in in the appropriate place, in the appropriate accounts, being the the accounts of our relationships with others.

00:59:12.38
Nathan Pile
So um how do we go about doing that? So yeah. good stuff. Good stuff. All right. Um, I think we have couple additional texts, additional texts here.

00:59:21.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah, what are our what are our extra... Yeah.

00:59:25.50
Nathan Pile
Um, Ecclesiastes ah chapter one, verse two, 12 to 14 and chapter two, verse 18 through 23. Um, see, search out wisdom, um, for everything else, uh, or for all is vanity.

00:59:44.81
Nathan Pile
Um, Psalm 49 verses 1 through 12. My mouth shall speak of wisdom. Again, I do think that...

00:59:58.09
Nathan Pile
the older I get, at least the, I don't know if I'm getting wiser, but at least I think I'm becoming a little bit more discerning about um the things of of want that I want for myself. And so hopefully this, like that idea of as we get older, maybe we do get a little bit wiser and are able to to intentionally evaluate the parts of life that, and put deposits in in their appropriate places.

01:00:26.37
Nathan Pile
ah Colossians chapter 3 verses 1 through 11 clothed in Christ your life is hidden um with him in God and Hosea ah this is semi continuous stuff Hosea chapter 11 verses 1 through 11 like a mother God will love Israel forever and Psalm

01:00:48.76
Nathan Pile
107 verses one through nine and verse 43. We give thanks to the Lord. We give thanks to you, Lord, for your wonderful works. As always, Kevin, I appreciate your reflections on our time for conversation.

01:01:01.81
Nathan Pile
um We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:01:07.07
Kevin Shock
And peace.