Episode 45: Luke 14:1, 7-14

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you make yourself low?

Additional texts:

Proverbs 25:6-7a

Sirach 10:12-18

Psalm 112

Hebrews 13:1-8, 15-16

Jeremiah 2:4-13

Psalm 81:1, 10-16

Transcript

00:00:01.67
Nathan Pile
Oh, we hope you're ready because now, now Pastor Kevin and I are ready to tend our spirits and ah read some Bible.

00:00:07.37
Kevin Shock
ah ah Oh my gosh.

00:00:14.59
Nathan Pile
We've been talking for just under two hours. Yeah.

00:00:19.02
Kevin Shock
We probably, we probably should have already hit the record button because we were really touching on some stuff that I think we're going to end up touching it on in this episode anyway, but oh well.

00:00:22.55
Nathan Pile
Yeah. a

00:00:28.21
Nathan Pile
um but there was But yeah, sorry, we didn't hit it soon enough. so But we are glad to be back with you. Obviously, it's Nathan and Kevin, Tend, a Bible Podcast.

00:00:40.34
Nathan Pile
um And this week, episode 45 here, we are looking at the Bible passage, Luke chapter 14, verse verses 7 through 14.

00:00:51.26
Nathan Pile
So verse 1 is going to set up that verse one is going to set up the context for seven through 14. So, um, the meat of the reading is seven to 14, but you want to catch that first, um, that first verse, uh, we're going to be reading it from the, um, translation of the new revised standard version, updated edition.

00:01:00.83
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:01:14.43
Nathan Pile
Again, nice job with naming national council of churches. Very creative. Um,

00:01:22.26
Kevin Shock
Hey, don't give them a hard time.

00:01:25.76
Nathan Pile
Come on. Like, people, this goes back a long time. There was the revised standard version. there's probably a rev reverse There was probably a standard version. And then there was a revised standard version.

00:01:35.93
Kevin Shock
So there probably wasn't.

00:01:37.68
Nathan Pile
And then there was a new revised standard version. And now there's a new revised standard version, updated edition.

00:01:44.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:01:44.83
Nathan Pile
Like, what else can they do?

00:01:45.02
Kevin Shock
but the next

00:01:46.03
Nathan Pile
What else could they possibly

00:01:46.26
Kevin Shock
bro The next one will be the new revised standard version, updated edition, brand new for 2042. That's what it'll be.

00:01:54.85
Nathan Pile
or maybe it'll be the really new revised standard version updated edition.

00:01:58.86
Kevin Shock
Right. The actual new.

00:02:01.09
Nathan Pile
Um, so anyway, this is just us bantering now. Sorry folks. Um, but that's what Kevin and I are going to read from. You can follow along on whatever, um, Bible you have close at hand, or you can look it up on Bible gateway, um, or the app or wherever you go to find different Bible translations.

00:02:20.17
Nathan Pile
Um, Uh, three questions today. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text toward what is God calling you in this text? And our third question, how do you make yourself low?

00:02:35.60
Kevin Shock
That'll make sense when we read it.

00:02:37.47
Nathan Pile
um I just went straight to, uh, what was that? What's that, um, dance you used to do when you went to the high school dance and you had to go underneath the pole. What's that one?

00:02:47.62
Kevin Shock
Oh, the, um oh gosh, what?

00:02:48.00
Nathan Pile
What is that?

00:02:50.49
Nathan Pile
How low can you go?

00:02:52.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:02:52.31
Nathan Pile
How low can you go?

00:02:52.68
Kevin Shock
What, yeah. What is it?

00:02:54.35
Nathan Pile
How low can you go?

00:02:54.32
Kevin Shock
Oh man, Nathan, I can picture it, but why did you have to bring that up?

00:03:00.56
Nathan Pile
I don't know. and I don't know. This was a cognitive test. And as we can all see already, 50 at 50 things start to slip.

00:03:06.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:03:09.33
Kevin Shock
Well, my mind, ah because I'm so much cooler than you, my mind automatically went to Flo Rida it and that song Low.

00:03:09.47
Nathan Pile
So, um,

00:03:17.08
Kevin Shock
Um, cause I'm so much cooler than you are.

00:03:18.75
Nathan Pile
You are cool. You are culturally cooler than I am.

00:03:20.90
Kevin Shock
Uh,

00:03:21.87
Nathan Pile
Yes, I, uh, that is true.

00:03:23.39
Kevin Shock
Oh, cultural.

00:03:23.45
Nathan Pile
I have no doubt.

00:03:24.15
Kevin Shock
Oh, now we're now we're like mincing words here.

00:03:25.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:26.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:28.27
Nathan Pile
All right. um

00:03:30.00
Kevin Shock
OK.

00:03:30.25
Nathan Pile
It's your turn, I think.

00:03:30.57
Kevin Shock
ah

00:03:31.33
Nathan Pile
Tag, you're it.

00:03:31.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it is. It is my turn. Here's some information about your host, Nathan and Kevin. We're men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

00:03:43.69
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:03:56.01
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

00:04:06.41
Kevin Shock
You can hear how to share that with us at the end of this podcast.

00:05:22.16
Kevin Shock
So as Nathan said, we're looking at Luke, the 14th chapter, be verse one, and then verses 7 through 14. On one occasion, when Jesus was going to the house of a leader of the Pharisees to eat a meal on the Sabbath, they were watching him closely.

00:05:39.65
Kevin Shock
When he noticed how the guests chose the places of honor, he told them a parable. When you're invited by someone to a wedding banquet, do not sit down at the place of honor in case someone more distinguished than you has been invited by your host.

00:05:52.74
Kevin Shock
And the host who invited both of you may come and say to you, give this person your place. And then in disgrace, you would said also to take the one who had invited him,

00:06:08.86
Kevin Shock
then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at the table with you for all who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted he also said he said also to the one who had invited him When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers and sisters or your relatives or rich neighbors in case they may invite you in return and you would be repaid.

00:06:32.61
Kevin Shock
But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind, and you will be blessed because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

00:06:46.04
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:06:58.49
Nathan Pile
Um, I think my head, as you were reading it, my head went off of that phrase wedding banquet. um And so then that spiraled into, you know, when you go to weddings, you have to go find the table where you're told to sit.

00:07:17.25
Nathan Pile
Right. um And then, of course, then and and as you were reading that continued to jog other memories or moments for me, can remember in college being um the college friends table, which was like back in the corner.

00:07:18.88
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:07:34.85
Kevin Shock
Oh

00:07:34.95
Nathan Pile
ah yeah usually it was a far away from everybody as far away as from the family as they could get you and you were in a corner so that if you got rowdy it was you were far away from the family um kind of a thing so I, I remember that and making comment of that as a as as a college student of being like oh look at us we are relegated we we are

00:07:48.02
Kevin Shock
my gosh.

00:07:59.97
Nathan Pile
You know, I wasn't thinking about this passage necessarily, but we are, we are out here, um as the, in the lowest place. Um, um, and maybe again, for good reason, I'm not saying that we were not always, um, and they, I also would imagine some of it was that, um, our friends also knew that we could care less where we were sitting.

00:08:24.69
Nathan Pile
Um, but we would always make comment, I can recall. as ah And so there's there is this place, so like it was fascinating to me as you were reading something that's 2,000 years old, and yet it still plays in our culture today of

00:08:45.48
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:08:45.79
Nathan Pile
of of seats of honor and what those seats of honor are and look like.

00:08:59.06
Nathan Pile
And, and, um, cause there is that feeling when you go to Cause then one of my other thoughts was when you go someplace that, that is a nicer banquet-y kind of feeling, but you don't have the the place assignments, you don't have where you're told to sit.

00:09:17.71
Nathan Pile
Then it is kind of, you feel like it is a guessing game of where am I supposed to sit? Where should we sit?

00:09:23.82
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:09:24.03
Nathan Pile
Like where, where are the important people sitting? So then we can get a sense of where we should be sitting. Like if if there's not a head table up front, like which of these round tables is designed for the people of importance and, um, and then figuring out where we sit. And so that, this, this, um,

00:09:49.60
Nathan Pile
figuring out the place of honor, the people, you know, the the levels of, of um I don't want to say importance, but um in whatever the space is, there is a hierarchy or a pecking order of some sort.

00:10:06.81
Nathan Pile
And what does that look like um in in most places? And like even thinking about a wedding banquet, like in my family's, you put your family close to the bride and the groom.

00:10:20.05
Nathan Pile
But I could see that there also be other other weddings where people put their friends closest to the bride and the groom and the families around on the ends kind of thing. Like so like figuring out those places of honor do take time.

00:10:37.25
Nathan Pile
And having sat with um couples who are preparing to get married, those decisions weigh on people.

00:10:48.41
Nathan Pile
of who do we put where, like the stress of figuring that out.

00:10:55.06
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:10:55.83
Nathan Pile
um is is usually one of the things that gets named, right? Like when we're, when I'm talking about, you know, how the preparation's going as we're just doing small talk before we, as we get ready to do the marriage counseling session, um you know, picking where people sit is usually one of those things where you see people throw their hands up and roll their eyes and, ah you know, give a moan of despair.

00:11:19.49
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:11:21.79
Nathan Pile
And so there, know, Figuring out what's the right place for each person in our society, in our in um

00:11:33.47
Nathan Pile
In our hierarchical structures, whatever they are, trying to navigate that is hard. It is hard. Like we tried to do a small wedding in my and when Angie and I got married.

00:11:46.98
Nathan Pile
And I can remember saying, we have to up our number. I have too many family that feel like they should be able to be present.

00:11:58.89
Nathan Pile
So like like we still did 150, which in my family is a small wedding because we spend so much time with distant cousins and uncles and aunts.

00:12:05.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:10.45
Nathan Pile
And and so we're a rather big, like at Christmas time, there could be 100 people. just on my side. And that would just be my dad's really, my dad's side of the family at this point.

00:12:25.04
Nathan Pile
um Not including my mom's side of the family, which is a little bit smaller, but ah well, which is way smaller, but it's, it's um like, as Angie and I talked, like trying to figure out how do we do that?

00:12:31.28
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:12:41.97
Nathan Pile
Like you had to make, you still, we still had to make some decisions, but there was, Like this idea of that what what we were gonna do and what ended up happening still got changed by making sure we had enough seats of honor by people being invited to be in the in the room.

00:13:00.44
Nathan Pile
um Kind of a thing. so So it um it was interesting to me to as you read this to have all of that kind of come flashing back and that it's still very much, even though it's a little different,

00:13:13.84
Nathan Pile
it's still very much a big part of of life, finding the right seats.

00:13:23.14
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:13:28.65
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this passage?

00:13:33.65
Kevin Shock
Well, I'll be honest. The word is ah parable because Luke pretty clearly says... um that when Jesus noticed how the guest chose the places of honor, he told them a parable. But this to me doesn't sound like a parable.

00:13:54.00
Kevin Shock
ah I mean, ah a lot of the parables that he tells involve metaphor or, um you know, here's here's a here's a story that's intended to get you to think about the way that life works.

00:14:01.84
Nathan Pile
hmm

00:14:09.32
Kevin Shock
um I do think that this, I mean, that's a poor definition for a parable. Don't take that as a definition for a parable, but um But I mean, honestly, maybe it's not that poor of a definition for a parable. ah A parable is a story that's intended to draw us into contemplation, prayerful or thoughtful contemplation about, yeah, about the kingdom of God or about who God is or about ah who who we are in the sight of God, um in the in the presence of God.

00:14:42.03
Kevin Shock
um But this almost comes across as being like, This is, uh, know, this, this is good advice, um, for you to have when you're like doing banqueting kind of stuff.

00:14:56.89
Kevin Shock
Um, I, I don't know if that's really the case or not. Uh, but in any case, this does, I mean, it all gets me thinking about, yeah, what, what you were talking about, about the, the place at a banquet or, um or how we

00:15:20.84
Kevin Shock
how we claim a spot for ourselves in either at a banquet or the way the world works or you know however we wanna say it. um

00:15:33.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so, ah but it,

00:15:37.78
Kevin Shock
it It just struck me as weird because Jesus tells plenty of parables in the gospel according to Luke, but this does not seem to be one of them. This almost seems to be like something you could pull out of Proverbs, you know, like ah like a wisdom saying or something like that.

00:15:50.13
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:15:51.23
Kevin Shock
um But there must be a reason that that Luke chose the word parable here. And because he even addresses the person at the the person who's hosting the banquet directly and maybe that part isn't necessarily supposed to be the parable, but, um, you know, it's like, it is, it is like, that here's some, ah here's some advice for you, or here's how you should consider doing things in the future, like that kind of thing.

00:16:19.09
Nathan Pile
right

00:16:19.50
Kevin Shock
So in any case, that's, yeah, that's just what caught my attention is nothing. It's not nearly anything as interesting as what you were saying, but, um, yeah, I,

00:16:33.46
Kevin Shock
This is, I think that this could be taken as simple instruction, um but also ah I think that it it it is it's intended to get us thinking about,

00:16:55.09
Kevin Shock
ah well, I'm gonna make a leap here, but I'm not looking at this verse alone. ah knowing what I'm knowing, knowing what I know about the gospel according to Luke, I think it's intended to make us think about the way the way that life is in the in in God's kingdom, in Jesus' way of living.

00:17:14.33
Kevin Shock
um

00:17:14.72
Nathan Pile
Mm.

00:17:16.47
Kevin Shock
When Nathan and I were talking before we started before we hit record, that was something that I said I had noticed and in looking at looking throughout Luke's gospel lately for my own kind of education, research, sermon preparation.

00:17:34.58
Kevin Shock
ah there's There's a lot that Jesus talks about the way the way that kingdom kingdom life is for the people who are doing it. And a lot of it is either counterintuitive or or countercultural to the way that we are used to doing things in the world.

00:17:55.24
Kevin Shock
And um I think this is This is intended to pull us into thinking more about how the how the kingdom and what God is calling us into, how God is calling us to live is different from society's expectations.

00:18:11.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:18:12.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:18:16.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah, because a part of society has us all drawn to the image, the simple image of sitting close in a place of honor. Like, we all want to feel that way, right?

00:18:28.53
Nathan Pile
We all want to be um in the seat of honor.

00:18:28.98
Kevin Shock
Sure. Yeah. And, and, and there are people who are quick to claim the seat of honor.

00:18:37.50
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:18:39.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:18:41.32
Nathan Pile
Well.

00:18:41.53
Kevin Shock
There's, there are certain expectations that come with being ah wealthy and powerful.

00:18:49.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yeah

00:18:50.16
Kevin Shock
I mean, it's the truth that, But I think also even even the even for people who are not wealthy and powerful, the but the what Jesus says to the one who had invited him to the banquet, um you know, about not inviting your friends or your brothers or sisters, your relatives, your rich neighbors, ah just so that, you know, they can invite you in return, but invite all these people that you don't have

00:19:22.28
Kevin Shock
maybe you don't have a relationship to right now, but who need a banquet who need to be shown some honor.

00:19:26.58
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:19:29.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:19:31.57
Nathan Pile
Well, and that is extreme counter-culturalism for today.

00:19:37.69
Kevin Shock
Absolutely. Sure.

00:19:39.31
Nathan Pile
Like, there are there are social ministries that are providing a meal or a banquet for those who are in need. But most of us, when we throw a party, are throwing it for the first crowd.

00:19:55.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. For the, for the people we already know and love.

00:19:57.65
Nathan Pile
for

00:19:58.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:19:58.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:59.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:20:02.16
Nathan Pile
Absolutely.

00:20:02.38
Kevin Shock
Which is understandable, but also Jesus feels I need to call it into question, which I also get.

00:20:04.17
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:20:07.08
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:20:08.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:20:09.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah. All right. We'll do it a second time.

00:20:13.69
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:20:17.17
Nathan Pile
On one occasion, when Jesus was going to the house of a leader of the Pharisees to eat a meal on the Sabbath, they were watching him closely. They, Kevin, they were watching him closely.

00:20:29.90
Kevin Shock
Yes, they were.

00:20:32.52
Nathan Pile
When he noticed how the guests chose the places of honor, he told them a parable. You are invited by someone to a wedding banquet. Do not sit down at the place of honor in case someone more distinguished than you has been invited by your host.

00:20:49.79
Nathan Pile
And the host who invited Both of you may come and say to you, give this person your place. And then in disgrace, you would start to take the lowest place.

00:21:02.18
Nathan Pile
But when you are invited, go and sit down at the lowest place so that when your host comes, he may say to you, friend, move up higher. Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at the table with you.

00:21:15.15
Nathan Pile
For all who exalt themselves will be humbled and those who humble themselves will be exalted. He said also to the one who had invited him, when you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your neighbors and you do not invite your friends or your brothers and sisters or your relatives or rich neighbors in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind.

00:21:51.03
Nathan Pile
and you will be blessed because they cannot repay you for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous

00:22:00.87
Nathan Pile
Kevin, toward what is god calling you in this text?

00:22:05.94
Kevin Shock
Mmmm, I mean, I think there are some obvious answers, but so I'm trying to think of something that ah but maybe it is I'm not just plucking something verbatim from the text.

00:22:22.07
Kevin Shock
um I do think that this is

00:22:28.46
Kevin Shock
calling me toward taking notice of the people, taking notice of people and their needs. Um, and ah needs can vary. it, I don't think it just has to be people who are, um, financially impoverished or, um, or, or physically hungry, but, but people who have needs can encompass a lot of different things. Um, I,

00:23:00.65
Kevin Shock
So I think, ah I think it's, yeah, I think it's calling me toward taking notice of those people and, and finding ways to show them honor. Um, it might not necessarily be a banquet, but it could be a banquet.

00:23:16.49
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:23:21.08
Nathan Pile
But showing others honor

00:23:23.60
Kevin Shock
yeah. Yeah.

00:23:24.50
Nathan Pile
is is the is the big piece here.

00:23:24.52
Kevin Shock
I mean, that's, I think that's what it boils down to.

00:23:27.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah. What, and, And I feel like there's a lot to unpack there. Like what what exactly does it mean to show someone honor?

00:23:34.99
Kevin Shock
um I don't think it's something that happens very often in ah in our world today. I think that, ah I guess the other thing I'm hearing in this is that there is you know the a way of the world that,

00:23:55.60
Kevin Shock
definitely exists as a reality that's a reality in our world is that people commodify one another. um You know, what, what does this person have to offer me?

00:24:10.26
Kevin Shock
I think that that, that reality exists. And so the idea that

00:24:19.75
Kevin Shock
We, we look to the people who don't have anything else, don't have anything to offer us and pay attention to them and make them feel like they're worthy.

00:24:32.69
Kevin Shock
ah like they're, like they're, they're needed, but not, not needed because they can offer us something just because of their, their inherent dignity as children of God.

00:24:44.84
Kevin Shock
I, I think that that's what this is calling me toward.

00:24:52.45
Kevin Shock
but ah I think, I think that I think that it's so easy to you know in a reading like this to point to like, well, you know we can see this all playing out and in the and the halls and the homes of the rich and powerful, but it doesn't necessarily happen among us this way.

00:25:11.36
Kevin Shock
um but But I think it does. and I think that there's... think it's really easy for human beings to fall into a pattern of

00:25:26.68
Kevin Shock
well ah for lack of a better term, commodifying one another. And, and you know, what, um

00:25:37.62
Kevin Shock
using, looking to other people as tools for me to get what I want or what I need.

00:25:44.29
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:25:45.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah. and And I think, frankly, I think if you've ever been on the receiving end of that, and you get to a point where you realize that maybe the, maybe the relationship that you had been forming with someone, ah you know, whatever it is, a work relationship, a friendship, a romantic relationship.

00:26:09.75
Kevin Shock
Uh, if you get to the point where you feel like, oh, this, this person only wants me around because they get this from me. it It feels like,

00:26:22.09
Kevin Shock
It feels gross. I don't know a better word to say it. It just, like, I think it it feels like, oh, like I'm just being used. and And I think when people feel like they're being used, they feel like they're not,

00:26:40.76
Kevin Shock
they're being made to feel less than human.

00:26:47.23
Nathan Pile
Yeah, well, there I've, I've several things here, um, from your reflection, um that has struck me.

00:26:47.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so.

00:26:52.31
Kevin Shock
ah Okay.

00:26:54.26
Nathan Pile
I, cause I started to make a list cause I didn't want to forget all of Um, I know I went and grabbed a piece of paper and everything.

00:26:58.18
Kevin Shock
ah saw you I saw you writing things down there. I thought that ah thought that you were had other things that you were thinking about.

00:27:03.07
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:27:06.45
Kevin Shock
but

00:27:07.13
Nathan Pile
um, Well, it was like earlier when you forgot Limbo, um the game Limbo. That's what we were talking about earlier. um

00:27:16.54
Kevin Shock
Right. Limbo. Yeah.

00:27:18.52
Nathan Pile
um

00:27:18.79
Kevin Shock
No, I did look that up.

00:27:21.20
Nathan Pile
um the And so you couldn't remember it. I didn't want to remember I didn't want to forget what I but I was. But like this idea of, I think is so powerful of how do we give so others honor because I'm with you, I don't think we do that very much in our society.

00:27:39.25
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:27:40.27
Nathan Pile
We, we give them honor if we think that it's good to be connected to them. And, and of course, one of the things that pours over my head is I was with my brother-in-law um here this past week, and he was talking about a golf benefit that he went to.

00:27:56.07
Nathan Pile
and, um And that it was celebrating a ah local nonprofit, which all was wonderful. um But that that what he was really excited about was he was paired with a business person that was going to be that could be influential

00:28:11.30
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

00:28:12.30
Nathan Pile
in his own career.

00:28:14.41
Kevin Shock
Mmmm-hmm

00:28:15.56
Nathan Pile
while he was there. Right. And I didn't think anything of it at the time. I thought, okay, yeah. And of course I come back and we're getting ready for sequin. It was golf benefit here in another week. um And, and so I was like, like, that's what we were, we're giving to a a nonprofit organization. These, these golf benefit kinds of things, but we're still trying to get something out of it with each other.

00:28:43.70
Nathan Pile
Right. We're, we're still trying to,

00:28:44.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, Mm-hmm.

00:28:45.97
Nathan Pile
Um, and I don't know if that's true for camps, golf benefits so much. um but like this, my brother-in-law was very excited and and and it's a good opportunity. Absolutely. It's a good opportunity, but there was this piece of like, this is a part of our culture. Like I'm constantly thinking about as I meet you as an individual, can you help me accomplish whatever my current goals are financial success, um,

00:29:14.44
Nathan Pile
you know, and so that's where the honor comes in. Right. Um, and, and, my brother-in-law felt very honored that the person that he golfed with had reached out to him the next day and just said, Hey, it would be great to get lunch sometime in the future and just sit and be able to talk a little bit about the work that you do and the, and the work that we do and see if there's any partnership moving forward.

00:29:33.63
Nathan Pile
Right. So there's an honor level there, but again, both sides benefiting from, from the relationship.

00:29:40.04
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

00:29:41.83
Nathan Pile
And so, um

00:29:41.93
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:29:44.30
Nathan Pile
like like Like how, um I hate to use the word invasive, but like like this has been so ingrained in us, this way of thinking about our relationships with each other.

00:30:04.72
Nathan Pile
um Like that we have, like I can give you honor, but um there's an expectation. Like if I'm going to do that, then there's that that ah that most likely I've calculated that there's a an advantage for me.

00:30:19.66
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:30:21.91
Nathan Pile
And so just it was striking to me, your reflection about how true honor, honoring the person for who they are without there being an additional agenda or benefit for ourselves um is a rare a rare thing.

00:30:48.02
Nathan Pile
And yet I can see the importance of it.

00:30:49.15
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:30:50.88
Nathan Pile
And and that connects to so this connects to my, um toward what I felt as I read this this time, and I'm and obviously I emphasized that word they in the first verse, they were watching him closely.

00:31:04.11
Nathan Pile
And then I noticed it again in verse 12, he said also to the one who had invited him, what? And so Jesus in both places are talking to people who are, um so the Pharisees were watching him.

00:31:24.49
Nathan Pile
I'm assuming that's who the they is, the leader of the Pharisees.

00:31:26.31
Kevin Shock
I'm assuming that's who the Vey is as well, yeah.

00:31:28.18
Nathan Pile
um up above and down below it's the the host who, again, what has he done? He's invited the kind of the talk of the town to come and have dinner at his place. um Jesus is saying to people of power and privilege, a warning.

00:31:47.87
Nathan Pile
And I think that was the thing that stuck out to me toward, you know, I like, I feel that this passage is warning me

00:31:56.77
Nathan Pile
about some of my behaviors,

00:32:00.77
Nathan Pile
things that I do as and as a human being myself. And so, um like, because i because I do need to be warned, because in the end, selfish nation Nathan is is is selfishly looking out for Nathan.

00:32:11.77
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:32:18.86
Nathan Pile
um And your point of this idea of giving honor, I think is radical.

00:32:19.90
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:32:24.31
Nathan Pile
in in a world and a culture. Again, part of the two hours of Kevin and I's pre-conversation, unrecorded. um You have to come live in the studio for those.

00:32:34.79
Nathan Pile
um ah But ah some of what Kevin and I talked about was like the challenges that face us in our culture and in our world today that we're we're that we're all experiencing.

00:32:47.57
Nathan Pile
um This idea of honoring the other is is is radical in that in that space and place.

00:32:58.36
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:33:01.04
Nathan Pile
You know, and I think about that in today, recently, today in the news, I read it in the news today. um

00:33:09.42
Nathan Pile
This stuff about sending federal troops into Washington, D.C., like

00:33:19.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah, you know, so it was a rabbit hole I got stuck in this morning and I kept wanting to find out, well what are the crime statistics? And so having to find some of that, like, what what are we doing?

00:33:30.57
Nathan Pile
Like, there's just, there's not honor in this.

00:33:34.78
Kevin Shock
No, no, no, no, no.

00:33:36.56
Nathan Pile
And I don't mean to just cast it at the president and and what's going, like, there's like there's a sickness inside of us. And yet in this passage, Jesus is calling us, warning us that we need to be paying we need we need to be paying better attention.

00:33:47.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:57.70
Nathan Pile
um And and this this this this idea of honor has a way could have a way of transforming ourselves and our communities.

00:34:15.44
Nathan Pile
if we could get away from how is it going to reflect upon me?

00:34:20.92
Kevin Shock
Sure. Yep.

00:34:22.67
Nathan Pile
if like, If we can truly use honor for what honor is has been designed for.

00:34:30.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, absolutely.

00:34:31.91
Nathan Pile
And maybe maybe not designed isn't the right word, but you get a sense of where I'm going. The direction that honor was intended to be, or at least that this passage seems to convey to us what honor is about.

00:34:36.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:34:43.00
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep.

00:34:47.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um

00:34:51.07
Kevin Shock
Right. So Luke's gospel, I mean, we live in a world where people talk about, you know, I hear people talking about why why do we have to make the gospel political?

00:35:06.58
Kevin Shock
Luke's gospel is pretty political. Luke's gospel is all about the kingdom.

00:35:12.28
Nathan Pile
coming year.

00:35:12.44
Kevin Shock
It's all about financial systems. It's all about, yeah, like how we, how we utilize our money.

00:35:14.50
Nathan Pile
ah

00:35:17.72
Kevin Shock
And and Luke is a very Luke's gospel is a very not not individualistic Christianity. And that's something I think that a lot of times when people say, I don't want the gospel to be political, it's because they're the Christianity that they have been raised in or that they have come to embrace is a very narrow view, individualistic salvation gospel.

00:35:48.58
Kevin Shock
which is not something that the church has employed for most of its 2000 years. Uh, you know, this Luke's gospel, the tradition we come from, although probably not as much as some other traditions, the, the Orthodox church, the Eastern church is all about the renewal of all things.

00:36:09.67
Kevin Shock
It's about God saving the universe. And, um, And so, you know, Luke doesn't shy away from there. There are systems here. there There are societal customs that are the problem.

00:36:24.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:36:24.08
Kevin Shock
And, um, so I, I say all that to preface that what I'm about to say, and that is.

00:36:24.32
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:36:31.98
Kevin Shock
Nathan and I are recording this on, you know, who knows when it comes out in a few weeks, what, what the situation will be, but Nathan and I are recording this on the day when it was announced that our president was sending in troops to clear the homeless out of, clear homeless, unhoused people out of Washington, DC.

00:36:49.27
Kevin Shock
And, um, and also in the news is plans to build a golden ballroom, uh, So we literally have someone in power who planning to build a banquet hall for his friends and, or business partners, however you want to say it and get rid of all of the people who will make the area around that banquet hall look bad.

00:37:27.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:37:27.70
Kevin Shock
And I'm not saying I'm ah listen, folks, I'm not saying Trump is the problem.

00:37:27.93
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:37:34.93
Kevin Shock
I'm saying Trump is evidence of a problem that we all have as humanity.

00:37:40.29
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:37:43.30
Kevin Shock
This is this is not.

00:37:43.57
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:37:44.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it if if if he were the only one who was creating an issue, it wouldn't be an issue. But the reality is this is how our world works.

00:37:54.98
Nathan Pile
right

00:37:58.50
Kevin Shock
And, um, and, and we might do it, you know, some of us who are listening or talking on this podcast might do it on on a much smaller scale than the president of the United States does, but it doesn't mean that we don't do it.

00:38:15.80
Nathan Pile
Well, and I think that's why this feels like a warning to me in that that I, like I'm a part of this.

00:38:18.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:23.98
Nathan Pile
I've I've ah I'm a part of the system and I use parts of of the system that we have created here in the United States. um I use it as as how I make decisions and value things in my own life and I can see the brokenness and fracture of it.

00:38:43.53
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:38:43.76
Nathan Pile
um

00:38:44.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:44.89
Nathan Pile
And so like that's why it feels like such a warning.

00:38:46.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:38:48.71
Nathan Pile
um and and And how do we

00:38:49.26
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:38:53.03
Nathan Pile
how do we do it How do we do the hard work of

00:38:59.08
Nathan Pile
of making this shift? How can how can we, the church, how can we, the kingdom of God, um the kingdom that God is trying to bring about in the world, how do we bring that to

00:39:01.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:39:13.65
Nathan Pile
to light

00:39:14.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:39:15.47
Nathan Pile
how does How do we make sure that that this countercultural vision gets seen and heard?

00:39:15.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah ye Yeah.

00:39:27.06
Kevin Shock
It's, it is a, I'm, I'm just coming to the realization of this in my, I mean, I've only been on this earth for 50 years, but you know, um, I halfway.

00:39:36.52
Nathan Pile
yeah You're halfway there, buddy.

00:39:40.41
Kevin Shock
ah Oh God. God make it so God that I'm halfway there. I feel like I feel like I'm more like three quarters of the way there. But anyway, um but but but ah

00:39:53.36
Kevin Shock
it's a, I have come to realize that it is a bitter pill to swallow. That things I have been told my whole life long that I was told were prudent and responsible ways to live in this world are not of Christ.

00:40:14.19
Kevin Shock
and and have nothing to do with living into the kingdom of God.

00:40:19.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:22.20
Kevin Shock
And and I mean it, it is a bitter pill to swallow.

00:40:25.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:26.42
Kevin Shock
because Because there is, ah I, I have a growing sense as I'm aging that there is a, there really, they Jesus wasn't just playing with words when he said, you you can't serve two masters.

00:40:44.83
Kevin Shock
and And things like, you know, we heard in, ah but the Nathan and I are recording this on, i don't know I don't have a calendar in front of you. I don't know exactly.

00:40:55.67
Kevin Shock
ah August 11th, yeah.

00:40:56.29
Nathan Pile
11th? 11th. eleventh eleven

00:40:57.63
Kevin Shock
eleventh yeah and And the gospel reading for the 10th was, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. And that that really is, it's not it's not, that doesn't mean the things that are important to you, you'll invest in.

00:41:11.90
Kevin Shock
What it means is, what you're investing in are actually the things that are important to you.

00:41:17.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:41:18.26
Kevin Shock
and And that's when we really self reflect, that can be a tough thing for us to realize. Where do we put our money? Where do we put our time? Because those are the things that are really matter to us.

00:41:33.38
Kevin Shock
and And I think if we were to take a step back and say, wait, is that really what matters to me? We might say no, but that's not what our life is proclaiming so that that's tough it's tough yeah yeah Nathan did you ever answer the second question toward what is god calling you in this okay all right all right so sometimes it's a warning okay okay all right okay all right you know some

00:41:51.09
Nathan Pile
That is.

00:41:58.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah. It's a warning. Remember, it's a warning, Kevin. I'm being warned. you feel being like and being warned that that the I'm a part of a system that isn't God's system.

00:42:08.06
Kevin Shock
right got it got it Yeah, sometimes sometimes you get into reflecting and then I don't know where the line changes. But I...

00:42:17.59
Nathan Pile
I like to blu the line, Kevin.

00:42:18.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I know you do.

00:42:18.91
Nathan Pile
I like to blur the line.

00:42:21.87
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right, well, let's look at it a a third time then.

00:42:26.47
Nathan Pile
Trice. Trice it is.

00:42:29.13
Kevin Shock
ah From Luke 14. On one occasion, when Jesus was going to the house of a leader of the Pharisees to eat a meal on the Sabbath, they were watching him closely.

00:42:41.19
Kevin Shock
When he noticed how the guest chose the places of honor, he told them a parable. When you are invited by someone to a wedding banquet, do not sit down at the place of honor in case someone more distinguished than you has been invited by your host.

00:42:54.70
Kevin Shock
And the host who invited both of you may come and say to you, give this person your place. And then in disgrace, you would start to take the lowest place. But when you are invited, go and sit down at the lowest place so that when your host comes, he may say to you, friend, move up higher.

00:43:10.30
Kevin Shock
Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at the table with you.

00:43:14.53
Kevin Shock
For all who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. He said also to the one who had invited him, when you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers and sisters or your relatives or rich neighbors in case they may invite you in return and you would be repaid.

00:43:34.33
Kevin Shock
But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind, and you will be blessed because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.

00:43:47.67
Kevin Shock
Nathan, how do you make yourself low?

00:43:57.40
Nathan Pile
Um, yeah, I've been thinking about your question since the beginning.

00:44:03.71
Nathan Pile
ah that, it's a struggle.

00:44:07.22
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah. yeah

00:44:09.60
Nathan Pile
I would like, there's definitely moments and, um experiences where it, it, it, it makes, um,

00:44:25.50
Nathan Pile
like where it's easy to be humble in those, and in that space to to provide honor and other space and another for other individuals or just to simply say like, I'll sit way back here, that kind of a thing.

00:44:38.46
Nathan Pile
um But I think if I'm if I'm being honest,

00:44:48.20
Nathan Pile
like I always want to at least be in the middle

00:44:53.41
Nathan Pile
whether or not I deserve the honor of being in the middle. um And so that idea of being, making myself low

00:45:06.41
Nathan Pile
is, would be a challenge in, in, in those moments in the majority of life, because I'd want to be at least seen as somewhat valuable.

00:45:19.33
Nathan Pile
If you're, if you're kind of on the scale if you're on the scale of life of, of honor, I don't need to be highly honored, but I don't want to always be sitting in the last chair either.

00:45:34.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:45:35.69
Nathan Pile
And so like, so there's this under, for me, there's this under, um, undercurrent that is constantly a part of, um,

00:45:48.65
Nathan Pile
whatever voice I hear in my head or whatever else that's, that says, well, I want to be honored. I want to be somewhat valued. I want to be in the middle.

00:45:58.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yep.

00:45:59.94
Nathan Pile
Um, and so there's always the striving that I've been taught to be doing the hustling that is necessary to at least be a middling,

00:46:11.51
Nathan Pile
um part of the, of the family of God, the kingdom of God, the, the, Lions Club, I'm not really part of the Lions Club.

00:46:22.71
Nathan Pile
um ah But that idea of whatever I'm a part of. um So like, one of the things I'm a part of as as a camp director is Lutheran Outdoor Ministries.

00:46:33.96
Nathan Pile
And so that when I think about being a part of that organization, I want to at least be considered about somebody in the middle of that organization. Yeah.

00:46:42.09
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:46:43.79
Nathan Pile
Like, I don't want to be the worst camp director, but I don't feel like I have to be the best camp director or the biggest camp director of the biggest camp. I don't need any of those pieces. I just feel like I need to be in the middle, you know, respected enough.

00:46:58.21
Nathan Pile
um And I imagine that's, it feels pretty average that most people would want to be there too. But the hard piece is that we all have that expectation of wanting to be there. And so this idea of making ourselves low

00:47:13.98
Nathan Pile
feels like, oh well, we're we shouldn't undervalue ourselves or we shouldn't put ourselves down like that or we shouldn't. And so how do I make myself low

00:47:26.26
Nathan Pile
isn't a question I consider often because most of the time I'm trying to figure out how to be in the middle.

00:47:34.16
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

00:47:35.40
Nathan Pile
Does that make sense? That's still my ah very long way of then coming up with a very nice short summary at the end.

00:47:37.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:42.38
Nathan Pile
um Like the idea of, I think the struggle of your question is that I don't wrestle with it enough.

00:47:52.54
Kevin Shock
Okay. Well, there you go.

00:47:54.62
Nathan Pile
I wrestle instead trying to be in the middle.

00:47:56.02
Kevin Shock
That's a good answer. Yeah.

00:47:59.67
Nathan Pile
And so ah how do I how do I make myself low?

00:48:00.62
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:48:04.03
Nathan Pile
I I would struggle with it.

00:48:07.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was looking at this. I um It's going to get edited out, but I started to read from the wrong translation. And I wonder if I actually put the wrong translation on the prep sheet because, um no, i't I don't think I did.

00:48:23.20
Kevin Shock
But that that wording, make your make make yourself low, is from the Common English Bible.

00:48:26.49
Nathan Pile
Make yourself low.

00:48:30.57
Kevin Shock
it's What's translated here is ah those who humble themselves will be exalted.

00:48:36.75
Kevin Shock
In, in CEB it's those who, those who make themselves low will be, and I can't remember what the word is there. I switched back, but anyway, um, just.

00:48:45.60
Nathan Pile
So what Kevin is saying, everyone, is he is now making himself low and letting you all know he made a mistake at the beginning. so that he could now tell us about the mistake, be humble, lowering himself so that then we elevate him later.

00:48:58.32
Kevin Shock
No, that's no, So. no so

00:49:04.90
Kevin Shock
No, no, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm I was I was just trying to figure out for myself where I got that language from.

00:49:07.89
Nathan Pile
I know your name. I know Where you got the word or language of Lo?

00:49:11.14
Kevin Shock
But yeah. um

00:49:12.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I did.

00:49:13.38
Kevin Shock
But...

00:49:13.79
Nathan Pile
I was curious about the language for Lo. I'm not gonna, but I thought, wow Kevin's being creative.

00:49:17.34
Kevin Shock
But in... No, I wasn't being creative. I just had the wrong... Anyway, the wrong translation. um I... So, but but what you say there is like, is there a difference between...

00:49:33.46
Kevin Shock
Like I heard you use a couple of different, uh,

00:49:39.29
Kevin Shock
but why adjectives, but, um, um, modifiers. That was, that was the word I was looking for. i knew it was an M word in your, um, in your response.

00:49:50.20
Kevin Shock
Is there a difference between being honored and being good at something or a difference between being humble or low and being bad at something?

00:50:08.00
Kevin Shock
Because you said at one point you said, I don't want to be the, I don't need to be the best camp director, but I also don't want to be the worst.

00:50:12.96
Nathan Pile
Camp director.

00:50:15.69
Kevin Shock
But, but is that different than being proud or honored and being humble or low? Like, I think that it is. I think that that's different.

00:50:28.20
Kevin Shock
Um, which again, I, like, I, I totally understand what you're saying.

00:50:33.70
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:50:33.87
Kevin Shock
Um, and I, and I also

00:50:35.14
Nathan Pile
But we don't live in a society that rewards not good. Like you have to be good.

00:50:42.04
Kevin Shock
right, right, right, right. We, right. We live in a society, but my question is, is that, is that how the kingdom is?

00:50:47.80
Nathan Pile
Hmm

00:50:51.47
Kevin Shock
And, and I'm not sure that it is. Um, Because I think I think you can be very good at something and be humble. you you can be um you know I you don't You don't have to hold high position to be influential. or I, I mean, certainly but it doesn't doesn't hurt. but also there are no but but I mean But also there are trappings that come along with that, aren't there?

00:51:20.00
Kevin Shock
ah there's a, I think that being in high position sometimes changes people.

00:51:26.20
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:51:26.88
Kevin Shock
And um so anyway, that's just something I'm, but I agree with you that this is this is a struggle.

00:51:27.46
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:51:33.29
Kevin Shock
I think that, ah I think for me, the way that I articulate it is thinking, I want, I want my voice to be heard. And so there are times when I speak up in a place, in a you know meeting, a gathering, whatever, in ah in a group of people,

00:51:56.93
Kevin Shock
um I think that some ah now it's not necessarily that I'm seeking honor, but I but I think that what I have to say is important enough that it is that it needs to be heard by the whole group.

00:52:12.91
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:52:13.91
Kevin Shock
So I guess this is my metaphor for it. um

00:52:20.61
Kevin Shock
I think I think making myself lower humbling myself would be adopting an attitude where I simply trust that if, if, if God needs my voice to be heard, then God is going to speak to someone else to say, ask Kevin what he thinks about this.

00:52:45.01
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:52:45.38
Kevin Shock
In the sense of like, I, because any, any time, anytime we put ourselves in, in the middle of a conversation or, offer something up, we run the risk of pushing someone else out.

00:53:00.57
Kevin Shock
And not necessarily by what we say, but maybe even just for the, you know, the limitations of time. You know, if if I, if I spend five minutes in an hour meeting sharing my opinion, that means that that that someone else might not have time to share their opinion.

00:53:07.71
Nathan Pile
sure

00:53:17.24
Kevin Shock
and um And so I think I think that making ourselves low

00:53:23.42
Kevin Shock
humbling ourselves is something that we are, we're we're, we're looking, we're looking to other people to give them space and to make sure that they're being, they're being heard, they're being honored, and it honored, at least in the sense of being shown that they're worthy.

00:53:48.24
Kevin Shock
um

00:53:52.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so I ah but but like you, I struggle with it. I don't, I'm not I'm not really good at it. I, Maybe I'm maybe I, I feel a little bit like I'm getting better at it, but but there's something about the the the way of god's the way of God's kingdom, the the way of Jesus' is living, that

00:54:16.31
Kevin Shock
the person... the person who hump The person who takes the lowest seat at the banquet

00:54:25.38
Kevin Shock
does not do so in order that they may be exalted, but does so because they know that there are other people who need to be exalted among them as well.

00:54:37.20
Kevin Shock
And someone may very well come to them and say, friend, sit up here. But I think I think if we take the lowest place, with an expectation of somebody's going to raise me up.

00:54:52.63
Nathan Pile
Mm, same, still in the same place, yeah?

00:54:52.86
Kevin Shock
I think we're still, I think we're still not getting it. Yeah. I think we're still in the same place because we're still, we're still seeking the place of honor.

00:54:56.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah. I would agree with you there.

00:55:01.72
Kevin Shock
We're just, we're just going about a different, a different method to get it.

00:55:05.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I agree. I agree with that that motivation there.

00:55:07.56
Kevin Shock
um Yeah. Yeah. And well, I think that, I think that's it. I think it's motivation. you know,

00:55:15.56
Nathan Pile
So, and and as you articulate it, um by sitting there to say, I value others ahead of myself, that's why I sit here.

00:55:26.73
Nathan Pile
um is a different way or a different perspective and motivation for going about it.

00:55:28.65
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah yeah and and I think what I continue to learn about the like the the reign of god the kingdom of god as as it's presented in the gospels at least and as I see it lived out in the world around me um it well in in the fellowship of the children of god in christ um There's something about even even the person who's sitting at the lowest place is an honored guest.

00:56:07.26
Kevin Shock
And so we don't necessarily lose out on honor if we choose the lowest place for ourself.

00:56:16.79
Kevin Shock
And I think I...

00:56:17.78
Nathan Pile
that's a retraining that has to happen.

00:56:19.67
Kevin Shock
Right, right. And that's exactly what I was going to say. I, I think that, I think that what we have been taught by society... our whole life long is counterintuitive to that.

00:56:34.75
Kevin Shock
That someone, if someone has, we see, ah we see honor as like a zero sum thing that if someone has more honor, then by default, someone's going to have to have less honor.

00:56:48.40
Kevin Shock
And, and I don't think that the, I don't think that the kingdom works in that way. I, I, if, if If one person has great honor, then all people have great honor.

00:57:07.96
Kevin Shock
Well, anyway, and that's ah that's as close to solving it as I'm going to get today, I think.

00:57:10.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:13.35
Kevin Shock
So...

00:57:13.91
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:14.55
Kevin Shock
um

00:57:15.94
Nathan Pile
No, it's good. ah it's It's good conversation um and something I think for all of us to continue to kind of wrestle with as we think about how do we how we live as God's people.

00:57:24.98
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:57:28.75
Nathan Pile
it it it is ah It is a rewiring but that needs to help transform ourselves so that we can help transform our world.

00:57:28.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

00:57:40.16
Nathan Pile
It's a different way of living, a different way of looking at each other. um and and valuing and making judgments about each other.

00:57:50.41
Kevin Shock
yeah. yeah

00:57:51.66
Nathan Pile
So.

00:57:53.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's ah it's that that retraining. um Right. It's,

00:58:02.21
Kevin Shock
again, Lucan text, the parable of the Good Samaritan. You know, who's who's the neighbor, the the one who showed him mercy, then go and do likewise.

00:58:13.90
Kevin Shock
And our whole life long is figuring out what go and do likewise is.

00:58:18.46
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:58:19.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:19.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Some additional texts. ah If you're looking for something else to kind of um chew on here around these similar topics.

00:58:32.93
Nathan Pile
Proverbs chapter 25 verses 6 to 7a. Do not put yourself forward. Kind of sounds similar. Sirach.

00:58:44.66
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:58:44.91
Nathan Pile
Sirach. Chapter 10, verses 12 to 18, judgment upon the proud. Hmmm ah Psalm 121, or Psalm 112, the righteous are merciful and full of compassion.

00:59:01.66
Nathan Pile
And Hebrews chapter 13, verses 1 through 8, and verses 15 and 16, God is with us. Let acts of mutual love continue.

00:59:14.58
Nathan Pile
And then we have two continual um semi-continuous readings. If you're looking at ah that summer series that tries to build off of um other readings kind of throughout the Old um or the First Testament.

00:59:29.83
Nathan Pile
ah Jeremiah chapter 2, verses 4 to 13, the people of Israel forsake the Lord. And ah Psalm 81, verse 1 and verse 10 through 16, I feed you with the finest wheat and satisfy you with honey from the rock.

00:59:45.51
Nathan Pile
um So all of those passages out there for for you to continue to read and reflect as we...

00:59:56.69
Nathan Pile
as we try to honor one another um in new ways, new and exciting ways that might inspire change of our hearts and change of of our neighbor's heart as we live through that. So as always, Kevin, I appreciate our time together and give thanks for your reflections.

01:00:17.43
Nathan Pile
um We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:00:22.11
Kevin Shock
And peace.