Episode 46: Philemon 1-21

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What makes you choose the right thing?

Additional texts:

Deuteronomy 30:15-20

Psalm 1

Luke 14:25-33

Jeremiah 18:1-11

Psalm 139:1-6, 13-18

Transcript

00:01.30
Kevin Shock
Hi, welcome back everyone. ah Nathan and I always say welcome back. um You might be listening to these ah like six at a time. I don't know. um But usually when Nathan and I say welcome back, it's because we haven't seen each other for a couple of weeks or so, or at least a week.

00:17.24
Nathan Pile
At least a week.

00:17.55
Kevin Shock
um

00:18.49
Nathan Pile
At least a week.

00:19.55
Kevin Shock
But in any case, ah we are here to talk about scripture. And...

00:26.65
Nathan Pile
Life.

00:27.97
Kevin Shock
and it yeah um And so the the way that we're going to talk about life today is by looking at a ah boy, I feel like I picked a doozy, Nathan. um This is a.

00:42.76
Nathan Pile
A doozy is a nice way of saying it, yeah.

00:45.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah, this is a this is a particular text with a particular context. ah Philemon, we're looking at verses one through twenty one. which is not quite the whole book.

00:57.34
Kevin Shock
So Nathan, when you read it from Bible Gateway, ah which is where you can find all of your all of your Bible readings, um then you will have to stop just a couple of verses, few verses short.

01:06.21
Nathan Pile
Do not, do not keep going.

01:09.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:09.96
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

01:11.10
Kevin Shock
um In any case, we're reading Philemon 1 verses 1 through 21. It's only a one chapter book from the New Revised Standard Version, updated edition.

01:22.65
Kevin Shock
ah The three questions we're going to be looking at today. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And what makes you choose the right thing?

01:38.12
Nathan Pile
um um Some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly, and middle-aged. ah college and seminary educated.

01:50.35
Nathan Pile
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than any anyone else.

02:03.82
Nathan Pile
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as you engage with scripture.

02:17.67
Nathan Pile
Uh, again, as Kevin said, we're going to look at Philemon versus one through 21. Um, um ah Kevin, did you want to provide any context about Philemon?

02:29.78
Nathan Pile
You said it was a, um, a unique book.

02:32.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's yeah it's ah it's a book that, I mean, every book in scripture is written to a particular audience and to a in in a particular context.

02:44.18
Kevin Shock
But Philemon is a book written by Paul. um This is one that we know that Paul wrote pretty definitively, um or we know definitively that he wrote it.

02:56.33
Kevin Shock
And it is written to a person or a household about a particular person situation involving a slave of that household who had run away and found his way into Paul's presence.

03:15.79
Kevin Shock
So I think that's enough context to, yeah.

03:17.64
Nathan Pile
Good enough context. Yeah, that's good.

03:19.69
Kevin Shock
Yep.

03:20.05
Nathan Pile
Very nice summary.

03:21.70
Kevin Shock
Thanks.

03:22.42
Nathan Pile
Yeah, you could work for Wikipedia if if you weren't such a good pastor. So, yep.

03:30.28
Kevin Shock
Thanks. If I need a plan B, I'll consider it.

03:35.35
Nathan Pile
Anyway, Philemon, here we go. Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus and Timothy, our brother, to our beloved co-worker Philemon, to our sister, Aphilla, Apthila, and our fellow soldier, Archahippicus, Archihippus,

03:55.25
Nathan Pile
and to the church in your house. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always when I mention you in my prayers, because I hear of your love for all the saints and your faith toward the Lord Jesus.

04:13.09
Nathan Pile
I pray for that partnership, of your faith may become effective as you comprehend all the good that we share in Christ. I have indeed received much joy and encouragement from your love because the hearts of the saints have been refreshed through you, my brother.

04:34.10
Nathan Pile
For this reason, though, I am more than bold enough in Christ to command you to do the right thing. Yet I would rather appeal to you on the basis of love.

04:44.84
Nathan Pile
And I, Paul, do this as an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus. I'm appealing to you for your child.

04:58.18
Nathan Pile
Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment. Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful to you and to me.

05:12.36
Nathan Pile
I am sending him, that is, my own heart back to you. I wanted to keep you with me so that he might minister to me in your place during my imprisonment for the gospel.

05:26.84
Nathan Pile
But I prefer to do nothing without your consent in order that your good deed might be voluntary and do- and not something forced. Perhaps this is the reason he was separated from you for a while, so that you might have him back for the long term.

05:45.14
Nathan Pile
no longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.

05:57.16
Nathan Pile
So, if you consider me your partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge that to me.

06:08.23
Nathan Pile
I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will repay it. I say nothing about you owing me even for your own self. Yes, brother, let me have this benefit from you in the Lord.

06:22.90
Nathan Pile
Refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I am writing to you knowing that you will do even more than I ask.

06:37.53
Nathan Pile
Uh, if you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own.

06:44.96
Nathan Pile
Kevin, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

06:51.92
Kevin Shock
it's It's an image. It's Paul's... um

06:58.34
Kevin Shock
ah The offer that Paul makes. ah I mean, Paul doesn't, Paul makes an appeal. A lot of appeals in this letter. ah But...

07:07.27
Nathan Pile
I'm going to ask you one thing and then asks for like five.

07:11.65
Kevin Shock
yeah Right, right.

07:12.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

07:12.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. yeah Yeah, he keeps up in the ante in what he wants to see Philemon do. but um But the offer he makes is what strikes me. And that is, um, in verse 18, if he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge that to me.

07:36.77
Kevin Shock
ah There's, there's something in that, in that offer, um that I, as I was hearing you read it, well, actually, even as I read it earlier, today in preparation, um,

07:51.25
Kevin Shock
It, I mean, that is ah that is a really like, that's a really Christlike thing to do. Um, he doesn't like, he's already asked Philemon for a lot that essentially he's, he's asking Philemon, you know, we talked in our last episode about kind of, there are the things that you do, you know, you can do things for different motivations.

08:01.86
Nathan Pile
What has

08:16.30
Kevin Shock
Um, he he's, he's asking Philemon in this whole letter. Not just to like do something for Onesimus, the runaway slave, but to change his whole viewpoint of how he sees Onesimus.

08:32.97
Nathan Pile
Mmhm, yeah.

08:33.74
Kevin Shock
he's and He's no longer your slave, but he's now a brother to you. Ah, man. I mean, that's like... That's, that's huge. I don't think that, I don't think that we can entirely comprehend, uh, what exactly Paul is asking Philemon to do here.

08:51.78
Kevin Shock
But, um, but that offer really strikes me.

08:51.84
Nathan Pile
Sure.

08:54.98
Kevin Shock
it it and it, it's reminiscent for me of the, the parable, the good Samaritan. I, there's a lot of Luke stuff that's just floating around in my head, apparently.

09:03.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

09:04.01
Kevin Shock
Um, but when, uh, when the good, when the Samaritan, um, takes the guy to the hotel, but hotel, it's spends spends the night there with him, caring for him, making sure that he's being restored and then gives, gives money to the innkeeper saying, you know, whatever, whatever charges you incur taking care of this person, let this pay for it.

09:10.48
Nathan Pile
Makes it. Yep. The inn. Yeah.

09:31.34
Kevin Shock
And then if there's anything else, when I come back through, I will repay you. Uh, that, to me that's real like I mean that's real Jesus on the cross kind of stuff um not that it's not that I, I don't necessarily um ascribe to the like you know Jesus well I there are different atonement theories ah um I don't, I don't like the ones that are that deal with like, you know Jesus is our ransom. Although he himself and Mark talks about himself as being a ransom for many.

10:10.40
Nathan Pile
He does.

10:10.43
Kevin Shock
um And um

10:15.11
Kevin Shock
he here is like Paul could say if if he's wronged you in any way or owes you anything, just forgive him.

10:26.19
Kevin Shock
But he doesn't say that. He says, I, I will take on

10:27.58
Nathan Pile
Right.

10:31.04
Kevin Shock
that cost.

10:32.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

10:33.66
Kevin Shock
um So that, yeah, I don't know that it really, this time reading through it, it really struck me as a powerful offer. And, you know, we can talk about motivation, you know, does Paul offer this as a way to try to entice Philemon to get him to respond to his request the way that he wants to. Or, I, I mean, I but I don't necessarily think so. I think that think that if Philemon said to Paul, all right, well, this is what he owes me, I think Paul would pay it.

11:12.73
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Once he's out of jail.

11:15.54
Kevin Shock
Once more, once he's out of prison.

11:17.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, probably not immediately, but, or or he would he would find he would find a way in the community.

11:25.69
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure.

11:26.53
Kevin Shock
in, in the, one of the communities to make that happen. Sure. Yeah.

11:29.99
Nathan Pile
Sure. No. He'd send.

11:31.91
Kevin Shock
So what about you, Nathan? What, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

11:36.76
Nathan Pile
um There is. the There's the ah the Paul is Paul to me. and And you've already kind of hit it that he he just keeps like he's writing a letter to as you've articulated here at the beginning to one

11:46.63
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

11:57.89
Nathan Pile
memory ah the head of a household. um And that head of a household, we also know is, is that the head of a church in his house.

12:06.23
Kevin Shock
A church, yeah. Uh-huh.

12:07.34
Nathan Pile
um So he's a head of not just a household, but he's a head of a community.

12:07.64
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep.

12:11.55
Nathan Pile
um And, and Paul, um Paul being Paul just ah keeps, keeps, you know,

12:24.50
Nathan Pile
um piling it on

12:28.65
Nathan Pile
of of um of this. And so he's he's sending his heart. his his He's appealing for his child. Onesimus has become obviously deeply connected to Paul.

12:44.11
Nathan Pile
um Now, Paul always has a way of his language, I don't want to say flowery, because it's not flowery, but he's But he's maybe tenacious might be another way to kind of better articulate ah what I really want to get at.

13:02.31
Nathan Pile
Paul, like, hits something and then he hits it again and he hits it again. And every time it's bigger and. Yeah, it's just bigger.

13:13.11
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

13:13.27
Nathan Pile
And so here this, um as you have articulated for us, if this, Philemon reading to you is is a is new,

13:25.16
Nathan Pile
um and Kevin has has done a nice job of helping us understand it, um We're talking about a slave, which would have had

13:36.68
Nathan Pile
hat would have had financial value, but Paul has flipped the coin, you might say, um and that this is about family. This is about um someone that is now near and dear, close to Paul's heart. And because it's close to Paul's heart, Paul also wants Philemon to have his heart grow and expand and be a part of this relationship.

14:02.28
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

14:06.60
Nathan Pile
um And so, like, I'm just, I'm in awe of Paul, Paul's um ask.

14:19.38
Nathan Pile
I think that's really the thing that strikes me here, is that he is

14:28.89
Nathan Pile
essentially asking another member of the kingdom of God to

14:37.91
Nathan Pile
to give value to Onesimus, whereas in their relationship before, there wasn't value. At least not one of, of family obligation before it was master and owner. There was a relationship of master and owner or master and slave.

15:01.12
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

15:01.14
Nathan Pile
um And now Paul is trying to say, as is asking Philemon to shift their relationship from one being one where the master would say, go do this. And Onesimus would have to have gone and done it to making it a um I wouldn't say equal because Philemon is still the head of the household, no matter you know no matter what. There's still a hierarchy, even in the family or in the community.

15:34.21
Nathan Pile
But at least bringing Onesimus in as a member of...

15:40.93
Nathan Pile
ah um of value as other members of the community. It's no longer a slave master relationship.

15:51.14
Nathan Pile
It's a loving relationship, a shared um relationship, which is

15:57.32
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

15:59.16
Nathan Pile
um

16:04.55
Nathan Pile
because in the honor-shame system of Paul's time, there was responsibility for a beloved brother by the head of the household, which is completely different from master-slave responsibility.

16:27.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

16:29.00
Nathan Pile
And so Paul's ask is, make this person a member of your family and care for him in the same ways.

16:37.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

16:39.18
Nathan Pile
and give him the honor due a family member, which would have been radically, everyone in the house, this would have caught caused, like in the household itself, this would have caused a huge stir.

16:57.58
Kevin Shock
Oh, absolutely.

16:58.70
Nathan Pile
Because if Philemon has other slaves, well, can we become family members instead of slaves?

16:58.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

17:08.81
Kevin Shock
yeah

17:10.27
Nathan Pile
You know, that would be things that Philemon might think about, like as a part of what Paul is asking. But Paul is unabashedly saying, like, I, I need you to do this.

17:20.57
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah yeah

17:23.82
Nathan Pile
So just it just makes me think, do we not ask enough of each other?

17:24.22
Kevin Shock
yeah

17:28.50
Nathan Pile
That's the thing that I think this passage kind of strikes for me.

17:33.38
Kevin Shock
well and i think i think that the thing that you you talk about there the the reality of this huge change in the household is because I mean I think we, I think we need to say it explicitly is because of Jesus this is Paul

17:50.59
Nathan Pile
Sure. Absolutely.

17:51.52
Kevin Shock
Paul is He's coming at this from, but you know, this, this is how like you've been operating your household, your church, like that you're still hanging on to some vestiges of of the things that the world has given you.

18:07.79
Kevin Shock
And, you know, and maybe for good reason, I, I don't know.

18:08.11
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

18:11.24
Kevin Shock
I can't, I can't, I certainly can't judge Philemon, but Paul is saying, this is like, there, there's an opportunity here for you to move into like pretty pure kingdom living.

18:25.16
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:26.27
Kevin Shock
And because, because you Philemon are not making Onesimus a brother. Jesus has already made him your brother.

18:37.37
Nathan Pile
yeah

18:38.51
Kevin Shock
And and and yes, your brother has wronged you, but now now the opportunity has arisen for your brother to return, for you to welcome him back, for forgiveness to be offered or, and, or if, if, if like, you know, forgiveness is difficult to offer for debts to be paid.

19:05.20
Kevin Shock
And that's, that's what happens with the the way of Jesus, the the the living in the kingdom.

19:08.09
Nathan Pile
The second part, yeah. Yeah.

19:11.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, actually, as I say it that way now too, there's also here, here we also have lingering, uh, or, or kind of re- it's reminiscent of the, the,

19:23.62
Kevin Shock
parable of the prodigal son or the prodigal father.

19:26.95
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:27.76
Kevin Shock
This is, you know, your, your, your brother has, your brother's returning.

19:34.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:34.26
Kevin Shock
Um, and you have, you have the opportunity to kill the fatted calf and to welcome him back. And, and what does, what does the prodigal father it to to give him a seat of honor?

19:45.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:48.37
Kevin Shock
What we talked about last week. to give To make a banquet and give them a seat of honor. Yeah. and And you're right. You're absolutely right, Nathan. It is a big, big ask.

19:59.90
Kevin Shock
It's a huge ask.

20:04.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

20:04.79
Kevin Shock
Well.

20:05.25
Nathan Pile
It's it it's again, I appreciate you putting all of this into some context for us because ah I think that helps us to understand the big ask that's here.

20:16.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

20:20.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah, this, this is a this is a big, this is a, a culture bending request. This isn't just a like, yeah, because this, like, like you articulated, this has, um, this has potential ripple effects within the household, in the church and perhaps even beyond.

20:29.89
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

20:46.12
Nathan Pile
Yeah. And beyond. Right.

20:49.13
Kevin Shock
Probably even beyond. Yeah.

20:51.30
Nathan Pile
Right. to to

20:51.47
Kevin Shock
So.

20:52.47
Nathan Pile
To anybody that would have known Onesimus before,

20:56.58
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

20:57.65
Nathan Pile
will now see him in a new light. Again, all of the things that the kingdom is about, new life, you know resurrection.

21:02.49
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

21:07.54
Nathan Pile
Here, Philemon can live that example out, provide that for Onesimus, but anyone that will encounter Onesimus will see that there's something new there.

21:20.57
Nathan Pile
And again, think part of us being human beings, don't we always want that for when we see new life in someone else? Don't we also want that for ourselves?

21:31.41
Nathan Pile
And that changes us, changes the world, yeah, community.

21:33.09
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.

21:37.05
Kevin Shock
Yep.

21:37.83
Nathan Pile
community

21:39.33
Kevin Shock
All right. Let's look at it a second time.

21:44.02
Kevin Shock
um Paulie or yeah, Paul, Paulieman. I've looked at the first verse Philemon verses one through 21, Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus and Timothy, our brother to our beloved coworker, Philemon to our sister Apphia to our fellow soldier, Archippus.

22:03.30
Kevin Shock
and to the church in your house. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always when I mention you in my prayers because I hear of your love for all the saints and your faith toward the Lord Jesus.

22:18.25
Kevin Shock
I pray that the partnership of your faith may become effective as you comprehend all the good that we share in Christ. I have indeed received much joy and encouragement from your love because the hearts of the saints have been refreshed through you, my brother.

22:32.95
Kevin Shock
For this reason, though, I am more than bold enough in Christ to command you to do the right thing. Yet I would rather appeal to you on the basis of love, and I, Paul, do this as an old man and now also as a prisoner of Christ Jesus.

22:46.38
Kevin Shock
I am appealing to you for my child Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment. Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful to you and to me.

22:58.29
Kevin Shock
I am sending him, that is my own heart, back to you. I wanted to keep him with me so that he might minister to me in your place during my imprisonment for the gospel. But I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your good deed might be voluntary and not something forced.

23:15.74
Kevin Shock
Perhaps this is the reason he was separated from you for a while so that you might have him back for the long term. No longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.

23:31.57
Kevin Shock
So if you consider me your partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge that to me. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand.

23:42.76
Kevin Shock
I will repay it. I say nothing about your owing me, even your own self. Yes, brother, let me have this benefit from you in the Lord. Refresh my heart in Christ.

23:54.97
Kevin Shock
Confident of your obedience, I am writing to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask. Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

24:06.31
Nathan Pile
um I think as you were reading at this time through the the piece of this um

24:16.54
Nathan Pile
that is so interesting about Paul, and it's the I think it's the, um I don't want to say it's the only challenge, but it's part of the challenge that I feel even as a um as a proclaimer of the word myself, pastor um a preacher, that is

24:37.57
Nathan Pile
that what Paul is calling Philemon towards is what, i you know, how, how do, how do I, um, how do I motivate you to do this voluntarily rather than it be a command because

24:54.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

24:57.64
Nathan Pile
you making the choice changes you

25:05.33
Nathan Pile
um And so in this proclamation, the this letter that Paul writes, um like I feel that same calling of how

25:20.86
Nathan Pile
how do I help teach without making it a command so that you feel like it's the law and you have to do it or God won't love you.

25:31.35
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

25:33.31
Nathan Pile
um Because we don't that's not who God is. But how do we how do I, I how might I also proclaim in my life um

25:48.83
Nathan Pile
God's message, God's good news, the gospel, so that others might also voluntarily make these choices that will change them?

26:03.39
Nathan Pile
um You know, I've talked about it on this podcast many times that the only person I have any control over is Nathan. And so Nathan making a choice that is about mercy, that is embedded in mercy,

26:19.90
Nathan Pile
um

26:22.66
Nathan Pile
is a far more powerful mechanism to change Nathan than... than any other mentor or, or teacher of Nathan's saying you need to do it this way.

26:40.68
Nathan Pile
Because eventually, at some point in time, whether it be a parent or a ah past pastor or a teacher who said, Nathan, you should do it this way. Eventually, I'm going to say, is that the only way to do it Because there's some other way to do it.

26:53.85
Nathan Pile
But if I've been given the choice from the beginning and not just told to do it, I make it a part of myself, I guess, in some way. And so

27:07.02
Nathan Pile
how do I also... live in the same model of recognizing that I can't tell people in my sermon, this is what you should do.

27:20.25
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

27:21.10
Nathan Pile
um

27:24.22
Nathan Pile
But there's definitely times as a pastor that that's what you want to do, or as a camp director.

27:31.25
Nathan Pile
just It would be so much easier if you just did this, right? um But being able to so to to to leave an openness to be able to plant seeds and leave an openness for them to um to make the the, I keep using the idea of choice, but that they might live into

27:56.21
Nathan Pile
ways God, the ways of god it will be more impactful for them. And in this case, Onesimus and everyone in their household, if Philemon makes this, instead of Paul saying, do this and do it for me, but you do that. And so it

28:21.32
Nathan Pile
the way that, again, the boldness of Paul's proclam- the boldness of Paul's proclamation startles me, but at the same time, it, there, I also feel like this is ah direction that ah as a um a pastor and a teacher and a leader in the kingdom of God it is a way that I feel called into living and and have to remind myself at times that that I don't get to make the choice for other people, even though I want to, um I want to tell them this is what you should do.

28:53.41
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

28:56.78
Nathan Pile
But instead being able to kind of point or, or um, um,

29:04.96
Nathan Pile
motion in the right direction. This is the right direction. This is the way you should choose to go. um being able to figure out how do I do that in my life in more ways?

29:18.57
Nathan Pile
Um,

29:21.37
Nathan Pile
because try that influence, um,

29:27.88
Nathan Pile
is, is a little bit more ambiguous than a clear command to simply do this. And so how do i practicing that in life, um, is a part of what this passage leads me towards.

29:47.09
Nathan Pile
Um,

29:50.67
Nathan Pile
in In my life as teacher, pastor, director, camp director.

29:57.87
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? Towards what is God calling you in this text?

30:00.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Hmm. I don't know. You have me thinking about some things now. um Just that it really resonates with me what you said about as a as a pastor or a preacher um not giving in to the the inclination to want to tell people what to do.

30:21.78
Kevin Shock
I- Boy, I, they're the the weeks that I really struggle with putting together my sermon is because i it's hard for me to get out of that of a loop of wanting to say, ah it's very, you know, it's very clear in scripture what we're supposed to do.

30:38.37
Kevin Shock
And so this is what you should be doing to live this out throughout your week.

30:41.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

30:42.76
Kevin Shock
And, and, and also, I think, I think that there are probably congregations where people want their pastors or their preachers to say that stuff, you know, give us, give us the formula for how to live in the way of Jesus.

30:48.40
Nathan Pile
Sure. Yeah.

30:55.33
Kevin Shock
ah It's not, but it's not a formula.

30:58.27
Nathan Pile
Right.

30:59.03
Kevin Shock
it's a, it's a lifelong engagement with God and with other people. And, and there's a lot of mystery involved in it, which is not something that is easy for people to deal with really.

31:12.37
Kevin Shock
Um, it's hard to figure it all out. So, so yeah, I don't, I don't know exactly what I'm called to, but I do think that, uh,

31:27.46
Kevin Shock
I, I guess I, I could summarize what all the things that are flowing through my head with um really leaning into

31:39.26
Kevin Shock
Christ's commands to love God and neighbor. um and And thinking about all of the, to keep unpacking for myself, what ah what are what are the consequences for what that actually means?

31:55.76
Nathan Pile
yeah

31:56.74
Kevin Shock
how, how will truly loving God and my neighbor change the way that I interact with everyone I know, but also will' change potentially my household, how I move in the world might change my, my job.

32:17.44
Kevin Shock
it might, you know, might change the work that I do.

32:18.77
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

32:20.54
Kevin Shock
it it could change all kinds of stuff. Um, it might change relationships. Um, I think

32:32.10
Kevin Shock
for me, what I'm feeling called toward is to continue wrestling with it, to not put it down, but, but to think about what it, you know, look at, look at what Paul is asking Philemon to do here.

32:46.29
Kevin Shock
And then how does he end the reading? not the whole letter, but, but kind of the meat of the letter. And that is, um I know that you'll do even more than what I ask.

33:00.90
Kevin Shock
ah It's, it's all, he's already asking much, much more than any, you know, reasonable person in Philemon's position would want to do. And then he ends it with, and I know you're going to go above and beyond.

33:13.67
Nathan Pile
above and beyond this yeah yeah

33:14.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Even, even the above and beyond I'm asking you to go to, um So I guess there is a, i well, I, now that those words come out of my mouth, I think there's a sense for me that ah that living living in the way of Jesus involves some form of above and beyond.

33:34.86
Kevin Shock
And not um

33:38.69
Kevin Shock
not just being content with, well, you know, well, I'm doing a pretty good job of forgiving people and loving people and there's There's always more and and not not in the sense that I have to do more in order to stay in God's good graces, but but that, ah you know, if we Lutherans always talk about we're freed to do more.

33:59.18
Kevin Shock
We're freed to go above and beyond. we we Like God has already named us worthy, so we don't have to prove ourselves to God. It just means that we can live even more into that life that God is giving us in Jesus.

34:15.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's, it, in my mind, there won't, um the consequence of not going above and beyond is that we don't get to experience the fullness of the life that Jesus is giving us.

34:32.39
Kevin Shock
That's the consequence. The consequence is not, well, we're going go to hell or, you know, we're going to, or God won't forgive us or things.

34:38.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Right.

34:40.82
Kevin Shock
that That's not the consequence. The consequence is, we are holding ourselves back from living into a reality that is more amazing than we can even imagine.

34:50.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

34:52.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

34:55.14
Kevin Shock
So anyway, that's, that's where I am. That's what I'm feeling called toward.

35:01.84
Nathan Pile
All right. Let's um look at it a third time.

35:05.13
Kevin Shock
Okay.

35:13.80
Nathan Pile
Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus, and Timothy, our brother, to our beloved co-worker Philemon, to our sister, Apphia, to our fellow soldier, Archihippus, and to the church in your house.

35:31.17
Nathan Pile
Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

35:37.92
Nathan Pile
I thank my God always when I mention you in my prayers, because I hear of your love for all the saints and your faith toward the Lord Jesus. Amen. I pray that the partnership of your faith may become effective as you comprehend all the good that we share in Christ.

35:57.29
Nathan Pile
I have indeed received much joy and encouragement from your love because the hearts of the saints have been refreshed through you, my brother. For this reason, though, I am more than bold enough in Christ to command you to do the right thing.

36:15.15
Nathan Pile
Yet I would rather appeal to you on the basis of love. And I, Paul, do this as an old man, and now also as a prisoner of Christ Jesus.

36:26.77
Nathan Pile
I am appealing to you for my child Onesimus, whose father I have become during my imprisonment. Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful to you and to me.

36:41.89
Nathan Pile
I am sending him, that is, my own heart, back to you. I wanted to keep him with me so that he might minister to me in your place during my imprisonment for the gospel, but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your good deed might be voluntary and not something forced.

37:05.26
Nathan Pile
Perhaps this is the reason he was separated from you for a while, so that you might have him back for the long term. No longer as a slave, but more than a slave, a beloved brother, especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.

37:24.28
Nathan Pile
So if you consider me your partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge that to me. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand.

37:37.28
Nathan Pile
I will repay it. I say nothing about your owing me even your own self. Yes, brother, let me have this benefit from you in the Lord.

37:49.58
Nathan Pile
Refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I am writing to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.

38:01.78
Nathan Pile
Kevin, what makes you choose the right thing?

38:06.20
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Well,

38:11.96
Kevin Shock
I, the quick answer is the Holy Spirit.

38:20.72
Kevin Shock
Um, ah which I think involves getting out of the Holy Spirit's way and getting out of my own way. um

38:36.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I feel like I feel like a lot of what we've been talking about are things that I'm i'm getting better at, but I'm definitely not there yet. So, yeah, I, I think I think really paying attention to the what the Holy Spirit is saying, and I think some of the ways that I think we do that is as followers of Jesus is that we We do the kind of stuff that you and I do.

39:10.60
Kevin Shock
um we We talk about scripture, we we unpack scripture with one another, we meditate on it, we pray, we read and study scripture on our own, but also most certainly with even better with a community.

39:26.82
Kevin Shock
um and And as a part of that, we do the same thing. we become serious about being a part of the community of Jesus.

39:37.83
Kevin Shock
Uh, however that comes to us, however, uh,

39:43.64
Kevin Shock
however we encounter that and however we participate in it. Um, yeah. So, so I think, I think first of all, I think being in community is an important thing.

39:56.20
Kevin Shock
I noticed that, uh, well, I don't know. It makes me, it makes me wonder something about this letter. I'll be honest. And that is the the beginning of it. So this is a, uh, Paul and Timothy apparently are writing to Philemon.

40:13.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

40:16.24
Kevin Shock
So this is a letter that would have been probably handed over to Philemon from Paul, but then Paul, you know, in the, right in the second verse also calls Apphia and Archippus and to the whole church in your house.

40:34.82
Kevin Shock
Grace to you and peace from God, our Father and Lord Jesus Christ. So there's a part of me that wonders whether Philemon, upon getting this letter, starts to read it and then says, oh, gather everyone else around here because Paul is writing to all of us.

40:51.78
Kevin Shock
And yeah yeah and then Paul lays it out there.

40:58.38
Kevin Shock
Says, this is the situation. This is what I'm asking you to do. And there's ah there's a huge difference between asking Philemon one-on-one to do this and asking Philemon in the presence of fellow followers of the way and the, and the whole church in your house.

41:18.55
Nathan Pile
All right. Well, and I'm wondering, I'm as you're setting this up, I'm sitting here wondering, does the person that's delivering the letter say, I have a letter for the household, for the, for the church?

41:22.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

41:32.20
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

41:33.52
Nathan Pile
It doesn't even get read by Philemon until everyone is there.

41:33.91
Kevin Shock
Right. Right, right.

41:38.05
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

41:39.41
Nathan Pile
And it might even be Onesimus who's reading it.

41:42.46
Kevin Shock
Well, and and we know that that's, I mean, that was, that was Paul's, um that was Paul's regular practice.

41:48.05
Nathan Pile
It's MO. Yeah, it's MO.

41:48.69
Kevin Shock
Paul, yeah, Paul wrote to communities. He didn't write to individuals. I mean, I'm, he, I'm sure he wrote to individuals, but, but all the other letters that we know are Pauline letters from the New Testament are all to the church in

41:52.86
Nathan Pile
Right.

41:55.71
Nathan Pile
Right.

42:04.00
Kevin Shock
Galatia, but the church in Corinth.

42:06.80
Nathan Pile
Right.

42:06.92
Kevin Shock
um Yeah. So it's not any different here, but, but I mean, you know, put your, like when I put myself in Philemon's position, I'm reading this letter thinking, Oh, geez, I can't, I can't believe he's asking me to do this.

42:18.02
Nathan Pile
it the yeah And I can't hide from it.

42:22.26
Kevin Shock
But, but if I'm reading it out loud with a group of people there who are all followers of the way, I'm, you know, They're looking at me and they're you know we're all thinking together, oh, wow, he's asking this is a big ask. and and but

42:41.55
Nathan Pile
I can't hide from this ask.

42:41.92
Kevin Shock
But I can't, right, exactly. I can't hide from it now. I can't hide from it because it's it's public. It's a public request.

42:49.82
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

42:50.31
Kevin Shock
It's not a private request, which also makes me wonder if this is, I mean, you know I've heard at some point in my theological education, I've heard reasons why this book exactly is included in the new Testament, but certainly it's because this is like, this is a tangible situation where someone is being called to live into the way of Jesus.

43:17.58
Kevin Shock
What, what you and I talk about at the very beginning at the, in the introduction of our podcast every week that that, you know, this as, as we, as we, what is, what do we say is we as we, we,

43:18.67
Nathan Pile
and

43:30.97
Kevin Shock
try or seek to live into the way of Jesus. ah This is, well, I know I'm talking about, I'm talking about the intro, not the thing that you and I say every week.

43:33.68
Nathan Pile
yeah all communities compiled interpretation for life with God and one another all

43:40.81
Kevin Shock
are The thing that is at the beginning of each season, each episode, you know, as, as we, as we live into the way of Jesus, I think that's what we say is we live into the way of Jesus.

43:45.13
Nathan Pile
oh right yeah

43:51.11
Kevin Shock
This is a request to live into the way of Jesus. And um

43:59.31
Kevin Shock
yeah, if, So how this relates to the third question, if ah if someone ask if if someone asked me to do the right thing privately, it would be easier for me to find justification not to do it. If someone asked me to do it in front of the whole congregation where I go to church,

44:20.48
Kevin Shock
oh ah o yeah. so So the community helps me to do the right thing.

44:28.48
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

44:29.37
Kevin Shock
the community helps me to choose the right thing.

44:31.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

44:32.67
Kevin Shock
Because I think I think in community, in Christian community, we are we are going to lean together more into the way of Jesus than we are...

44:32.73
Nathan Pile
Well, and.

44:45.44
Kevin Shock
can't imagine I would get a dozen people... you know if I received a if if this If there were a modern day situation where you know I was asked to go above and beyond to live into the way of Jesus...

44:58.33
Kevin Shock
and And this was being asked of me in in the presence of mike you know the congregation where I'm a member or or or the or the ministerium in our synod or something like that.

45:12.79
Kevin Shock
There aren't going to be a dozen people who are who are going to rush up to me and say, oh, oh Kevin, that's no that's too much. don't not Don't do that. Everyone's going to be watching to see how I respond.

45:23.28
Kevin Shock
And then and then I can only suspect that the Holy Spirit is going to move people to say, yep, you can do it.

45:23.31
Nathan Pile
Now you're going to do it.

45:31.52
Kevin Shock
and we're And we're here for you as you do it.

45:34.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

45:35.99
Kevin Shock
But we think you have to do it.

45:39.38
Nathan Pile
Oh.

45:40.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's that's how I'm imagining that going.

45:43.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and and a part of this, as as you... um you know, kind of shared all of that and that thinking, like we have the story.

45:54.96
Nathan Pile
If this had shown up in Philemon's hands and it was Philemon's to deal with,

45:57.54
Kevin Shock
Right.

46:01.55
Nathan Pile
Like it could very easily have been shoved in the desk. Used to start that night's fire.

46:06.28
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep.

46:08.00
Nathan Pile
um

46:08.11
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yeah.

46:08.69
Nathan Pile
Pick, pick, pick the, um but I love the that this piece of that you've added to this, that it's the community that's going to help Philemon live this out.

46:08.72
Kevin Shock
Right. yeah Right. Right.

46:20.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:21.25
Nathan Pile
And, and what a powerful statement for all of the rest of us. If Paul's writing us letters about things like,

46:31.05
Nathan Pile
climate change or make helping make all humans have a life of dignity.

46:41.10
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

46:42.22
Nathan Pile
Like this is a letter to all of us and that we, as of the community, like, what can I possibly do about helping the environment? What can I possibly do about race or gender relationships? Um,

46:56.98
Nathan Pile
You know, oh I'm powerless. It's not about us being powerless. it's about us being in a community that is going to help us do these things together, I think is really powerful.

47:09.54
Nathan Pile
Like I love, I love what you just shared there.

47:14.49
Nathan Pile
And how it should change all of our communities.

47:18.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, right.

47:18.82
Nathan Pile
You know, because you're right. It's, it's, it's, uh, it's other people helping us ah choose the right thing. It was when we were kids, our parents and our grandparents or whoever those, those adult role models were that taught us what to do the right thing was.

47:27.10
Kevin Shock
yep Yeah,

47:38.35
Nathan Pile
And,

47:42.14
Nathan Pile
and now we need each other help us continue to do that. to continue to make what those right choices are.

47:49.36
Kevin Shock
right.

47:54.25
Nathan Pile
Because it would be really easy to eventually cave into what Nathan wants.

48:00.01
Kevin Shock
Sure.

48:00.19
Nathan Pile
If the only voice I'm allowing into my head is mine.

48:00.20
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

48:05.43
Nathan Pile
Like this, this, this passage, this one chapter letter gets included in the gospel because Other community said this community, this household church is living out the gospel in powerful ways.

48:29.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Right. This would, this would be a different outcome if, uh, Paul had written it to the, um, the slave owners association.

48:40.91
Nathan Pile
Right.

48:42.65
Kevin Shock
ah

48:43.15
Nathan Pile
Right.

48:43.40
Kevin Shock
it It makes a difference that he's writing it to the community in Christ Jesus. Yeah.

48:48.20
Nathan Pile
Right.

48:49.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

48:50.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

48:51.03
Kevin Shock
Cause we, we can.

48:51.28
Nathan Pile
His, his letter would have been, would have been fire starter at the, what?

48:55.33
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right, right.

48:57.02
Nathan Pile
We're not going to change our, we're not going to change the way we live.

48:57.07
Kevin Shock
It would have been, it would have been, ah it would have been Philemon. There's no way that you can do this because then ah the rest of us are going to have to start forgiving our runaway slaves also.

49:07.64
Nathan Pile
Right. Right. Right.

49:10.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Which again highlights the, the, the, the danger, the counter-cultural nature of living into the kingdom.

49:21.13
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

49:21.83
Kevin Shock
Um, what about you, Nathan? What toward what is, ah no, not, that was the second one. but but What, what, uh, I don't have the right tab up here. I was looking at the reading. um buh buh buh What makes you choose the right thing?

49:35.98
Nathan Pile
Well, I would I'm right where you were at. The Holy Spirit is the there' a piece of that. But for me, it comes down to the people and the Holy Spirit that is in those people. that's what ah you know and And so it's not off far off of what you've said. like I don't need to reiterate it. You said it very nicely.

49:53.23
Nathan Pile
um Because I do think that that's the ah case. and And there are some situations that come up that Nathan has the strength and the fortitude to make the decision for Nathan's self what is right.

50:05.89
Nathan Pile
But there are lots of many, many others that I need other people to help me do that.

50:06.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

50:10.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

50:11.34
Nathan Pile
And sometimes it's the peer pressure of it.

50:11.57
Kevin Shock
Yep.

50:14.91
Kevin Shock
Fine.

50:15.51
Nathan Pile
and so right And sometimes it's their wise counsel and guidance because anytime I'm going to make a big decision, i'm I'm just by the nature of who I am, I'm going to talk to a lot of people trying to figure out what might be the right direction to move this in.

50:30.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah,

50:31.39
Nathan Pile
And so um so um other people, but in those other people, it is the Holy Spirit that helps to guide me in that right decision, right thing.

50:31.41
Kevin Shock
yeah.

50:45.18
Nathan Pile
so

50:46.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, um, I just want to point out too that

50:55.09
Kevin Shock
we stop the the reading, the appointed reading stops at verse 21 with the very next verse.

51:00.76
Nathan Pile
ah I was wondering if you were going to bring this yeah

51:04.50
Kevin Shock
One thing more, Paul says to Philemon.

51:06.45
Nathan Pile
up. Yeah. I haven't asked enough. I haven't asked enough yet.

51:10.26
Kevin Shock
Well, prepare a guest room for me for I'm hoping through your prayers to be restored to you. So that's a, that's another way of saying the minute I get out of prison, I'm coming to your house.

51:21.94
Nathan Pile
I'm coming through.

51:26.81
Nathan Pile
ah

51:27.11
Kevin Shock
Essentially the unspoken being, uh, to, to make sure you're doing this.

51:33.08
Nathan Pile
Maybe he's just coming for a visit, Kevin.

51:35.54
Kevin Shock
No, I'm, no, I'm sure he is coming for a visit. I'm sure he is coming for a visit, but it's another, it's another layer of accountability here.

51:40.18
Nathan Pile
yeah you're absolutely Yeah, you're absolutely right.

51:43.04
Kevin Shock
And, and it's, um, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's, I don't know, as we unpack this more and more, I mean, I, you know, it's great. This is a one chapter.

51:55.59
Kevin Shock
this is the beauty of scripture, Nathan. This is a one chapter letter in the new Testament that, you know, you, you have to flip one page probably in your Bible to read the whole thing. Uh, you can spend,

52:07.59
Kevin Shock
years unpacking this with other people there's there's so much in here so much about what it about human dynamics and how the how the kingdom butts up against human reality and and yeah I, I, it, and and about relationships and and what society expects of us and what god expects of us but um yeah I,

52:09.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah. no yeah

52:34.18
Kevin Shock
This is ah one thing that occurs to me as we're reading this together and and unpacking it together is that, you know, I mentioned earlier that part, a ah huge gift of the kingdom is is the freedom we have to live into this loving, forgiving, ah restoring relationship, not just with God, but with one another.

52:57.20
Kevin Shock
um Another huge gift of the kingdom is accountability. We have freedom, but we also have accountability. And, uh, and it's, it's, you know, freedom, freedom from a human perspective may threaten to tear community apart because you know, everyone like the, the bonds are loosed, so to speak, but then accountability is a, is a, ah is a, is a counter to that, that you're, you're still bound to one another.

53:30.21
Nathan Pile
yeah

53:30.59
Kevin Shock
in, in, in responsible relationship. And so it's, I don't know, it's just, I, it presents this image in my mind of the Christian community being this wonderful dynamic living organism in and of itself.

53:49.56
Kevin Shock
Um, not just the individual people within it, but the community itself has a, has a life of its own because of the life that Christ has given to it. Yeah.

54:02.83
Kevin Shock
Anywho, anything else to so offer up for this reading, Nathan?

54:06.01
Nathan Pile
I liked, again, I love your idea here of how could we as the community of Christ use this passage, again, something that only falls in our books once a once every three years we get this story from Philemon.

54:21.46
Nathan Pile
um

54:24.17
Nathan Pile
How could we use it to help us live um more accountable as the people of God?

54:35.99
Nathan Pile
with each other.

54:36.33
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

54:36.91
Nathan Pile
How do we, how could we talk about this and, and recognize the big ask that's that, that really is all about every part of discipleship. It's not just this.

54:49.99
Nathan Pile
The big ask is that we change our lives in such a way that others can see the love of God in us. And that's, it's going to be counterculture. It's going to be hard. It's going to be,

55:03.01
Nathan Pile
um

55:05.47
Nathan Pile
it's going to be surprising, but it's also going to inspire others if we can do it. And, and, and this community of the household church of Philemon is lived it out. And so,

55:20.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

55:21.52
Nathan Pile
you know, it's a way of hope and, and inspiration for the rest of us that even though we feel like, Oh, I'm, I'm only one person. I can't do this again. Find the, find the small group, find the 12 people, find the group that can help, um, nurture you as, as together you hold each other accountable to live into the loving way of Christ.

55:40.95
Kevin Shock
Yep.

55:47.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

55:50.40
Nathan Pile
So I just love this idea of using this passage in that way to help us be better

55:50.46
Kevin Shock
yep Yeah,

55:58.51
Nathan Pile
um with one another.

56:03.90
Nathan Pile
Having those real conversations together.

56:04.64
Kevin Shock
good.

56:05.98
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

56:08.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah, community the community that Jesus gives us, and sometimes we have to seek it out for ourselves, but that community is a huge gift.

56:15.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

56:15.83
Kevin Shock
A huge gift, yeah.

56:18.03
Nathan Pile
You know, what who among us wouldn't want to be a part of a conversation of somebody saying, I can't believe this is that big of an ask. How can I possibly do this?

56:29.29
Nathan Pile
Well, I'll help you.

56:30.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right, right.

56:31.19
Nathan Pile
Oh, I'd help you. You know, what does that look like? How does that change us? Yeah, it's powerful stuff.

56:37.43
Kevin Shock
yeah Yep, yep.

56:43.03
Kevin Shock
All right, well, thanks for the conversation, Nathan. let's ah There's some other additional texts here that ah might lead you in other directions or help you to see this this reading through a clearer lens.

56:57.90
Kevin Shock
ah One The first one is Deuteronomy 30, 15 through 20. ah Chapter 30, verses 15 through 20. Walk in the way of life and hold fast to God. a Psalm 1, we hear they are like trees. That is the people who love the word of God. They are like trees planted by streams of water.

57:20.66
Kevin Shock
Um, Luke 14 verses 25 through 33, Jesus says, disciples, give up your possessions and carry the cross. Ah, talking about big asks.

57:32.88
Kevin Shock
Um, there we go.

57:34.89
Nathan Pile
There's a big ask.

57:36.49
Kevin Shock
Yep. He asks them all together too, not just one at a time.

57:39.34
Nathan Pile
Yep. Yeah.

57:40.08
Kevin Shock
Uh, and then, and then our, uh, our readings from a Hebrew scripture that

57:40.39
Nathan Pile
Nope.

57:47.95
Kevin Shock
kind of go in order. Jeremiah 18 verses 1 through 11, like a potter, the Lord will reshape Israel. And then Psalm 139 verses 1 through 6 and 13 through 18, you, O Lord, have searched me out and known me.

58:04.74
Kevin Shock
Well, friends, I really and I always enjoy this time together, but Nathan, this, this conversation has been really has fed and into some other meditation. I've things I've been meditating on myself. And so it's been great to hear what you've had to say and to be present there to help me unpack some things for myself.

58:27.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

58:27.23
Kevin Shock
Um, and so friends, we, we would love to hear what your reflections are on this. Uh, I guess it's doggy dinner time here getting a little rambunctious. Um, Sorry for the background noise.

58:39.90
Kevin Shock
ah the um We'd love to hear what you have to say about this reading and ah and the things that Paul is asking Philemon to do.

58:52.99
Kevin Shock
Oh, goodness. Okay, friends, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

58:59.12
Nathan Pile
And peace.