Episode 49: 1 Timothy 6:6-19

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What is your treasure of a good foundation for the future?

Additional texts:

Amos 6:1a, 4-7

Psalm 146

Luke 16:19-31

Jeremiah 32:1-3a, 6-15

Psalm 91:1-6, 14-16

Transcript

00:03.34
Nathan Pile
Joyous welcome to all as we gather for another episode of Tend.

00:08.52
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:11.21
Nathan Pile
um

00:12.38
Kevin Shock
Oh my goodness. What a, what a joyous welcome.

00:15.67
Nathan Pile
Joyous welcome. um You know, it's a beautiful day. what can What can I say? I'm, I'm glad to be with my buddy and we're going to talk about scripture. So it's all good.

00:31.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it is a beautiful day and a good time to talk about scripture.

00:35.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So, uh, Kevin and I are going to look at first Timothy chapter six verses six to 19. Um, and we're going to read it out of the new revised standard version, updated edition, NRSVUE. Um, you can follow along in whatever Bible you have close at hand, or, um, you can look it up on Bible gateway, um, or use the Bible gateway app, um,

01:02.82
Nathan Pile
And join us as we look into this Bible passage. Three questions that we'll discuss, as is our habit. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

01:15.17
Nathan Pile
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And our third question this week, what is your treasure of a good foundation for the future? Hmm.

01:25.44
Nathan Pile
I'm not positive I know exactly... um think about that question.

01:33.20
Kevin Shock
maybe maybe ah Maybe we'll read the scripture and it'll help.

01:33.57
Nathan Pile
Your treasure of a good foundation.

01:36.52
Kevin Shock
ah

01:36.65
Nathan Pile
It'll help ah illuminate us.

01:39.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:40.29
Nathan Pile
Illuminate what we're looking at.

01:40.49
Kevin Shock
ah

01:43.25
Kevin Shock
So some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

01:57.09
Kevin Shock
All this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss Scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of Scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another, so we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience and perspective.

02:18.84
Kevin Shock
As Nathan said, we're reading from 1 Timothy 6, verses 6-19. Of course there is great gain in godliness combined with contentment,

02:30.43
Kevin Shock
For we brought nothing into the world so that we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. But those who want to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

02:48.19
Kevin Shock
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. And in their eagerness to be rich, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains." But as for you, men of God, shun all this.

03:02.33
Kevin Shock
Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and for which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

03:17.30
Kevin Shock
In the presence of God who gives life to all things and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep the commandment without spot or blame until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will bring about at the right time.

03:35.03
Kevin Shock
He who is the blessed and only sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords. It is he he alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light,

03:47.67
Kevin Shock
As to him be honour and eternal dominion. Amen. As for those who are in the present those who in the present age are rich, command them not to be haughty or to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.

04:08.21
Kevin Shock
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous and ready to share, thus storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life that really is life.

04:25.24
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group or another person, ah you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Nathan, what word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

04:38.20
Nathan Pile
Um, it's actually that last phrase that you read life. That really is life. I, I, um,

04:46.70
Nathan Pile
yeah, that's, that's what caught my attention. I'm not going to complain about this reading. Um,

04:51.95
Kevin Shock
Oh, gosh. Jeez.

04:57.05
Kevin Shock
What's wrong with the reading, Nathan?

04:57.07
Nathan Pile
um, nothing's are ah like nothing. I, I, it could be the time of day. It could be the time of day that is,

05:07.73
Kevin Shock
It is a little later.

05:08.10
Nathan Pile
ah It is a little later than when we normally ah chat and visit. And so I found myself glazing over in the middle of this. um

05:17.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

05:18.61
Nathan Pile
um and And so, but you got to the end and I was like, ooh, I can hold on to that. um

05:26.88
Kevin Shock
There you go

05:29.51
Nathan Pile
So that they may take hold of the life that really is life. um And it was really those last couple of words that really life that really is life.

05:41.32
Nathan Pile
um That,

05:46.78
Nathan Pile
that strikes me as something that um I want to grab onto life that is really life. um

05:59.21
Nathan Pile
And so, you know, the, there are in, you know, Last 25 years of my life, there are definitely weeks of the year for over 25 years where I've gotten to the place where I've said, like, really want to just focus in on what's important in life.

06:24.29
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

06:25.70
Nathan Pile
you know, and, and it could be, it could be a time of the year. It could be, you know, sometimes like it's not every summer, but at the end of some summers, I'm always like, well, like, is this, is this what life is about?

06:38.61
Nathan Pile
Did God intend for something more? Um, and so to hear the, um, the writer of first Timothy kind of saying,

06:48.89
Nathan Pile
um that they may hold, they take hold of the life that really is life, I guess echoes to me some of my own personal questions of what is, what is life? What, ah what is it, this thing that this gift that we've been given, what is it that I should be wrestling for?

07:09.11
Nathan Pile
Um, and, uh, and here it feels as if, um,

07:17.06
Nathan Pile
I hear that in these words, that idea of taking hold of life that really is life. Um, now, as i as I fairly assessed earlier or fairly, freely confessed earlier, I glazed over in the middle of this passage.

07:33.64
Nathan Pile
So I don't know if the stuff in the middle of the passage is what I'm supposed to be holding onto in life. So I'm glad we're reading it a second and third time and maybe I can really pulling, I'll be able to pull this all together.

07:42.80
Kevin Shock
Yes, we will be.

07:47.28
Nathan Pile
um But that that idea of sometimes I feel like, am I the only person that thinks this? am I the only person that, that um struggles with what is life that I'm supposed to be living. um This last piece of this kind of makes me at least feel like, oh, I'm not alone in my own questions of seeking to to to get the best out of life, whatever that is.

08:11.74
Nathan Pile
um So, yeah, that's what sticks out to me. How about you?

08:18.65
Kevin Shock
Um, that is a, that's a phrase, the one that you lift up that, uh, I think is really, um has often grabbed my attention from this, from this reading.

08:30.90
Kevin Shock
and I think are words that you can probably spend a lot of time in your life trying to unpack and decipher what that really means. Um, for me though, today, the one that, um,

08:47.25
Kevin Shock
The one that really stuck out to me was verse nine. Um, those who want to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many senseless, harmful and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

09:04.82
Kevin Shock
Then of course we hear that famous often misquoted scripture verse for the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

09:13.18
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

09:13.50
Kevin Shock
Um, I think that the, well, no, I don't think the thing that sticks out to me from that verse is plunge it that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

09:25.68
Kevin Shock
um We talked a lot in our last episode about what it means to live communally, to praise together. And I think that this scripture highlights the, the consequences that individual actions can sometimes take on the whole of the community.

09:48.21
Kevin Shock
um

09:51.76
Kevin Shock
It doesn't say here that the, that the people who want to be rich are necessarily the ones that are plunged into ruin and destruction. Although I think that's probably true, but it, it, it implies to me that they're striving to be rich.

10:11.12
Kevin Shock
also has the potential to plunge other people into ruin and destruction.

10:14.77
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

10:17.19
Kevin Shock
And that's something that I alluded to the last episode, things I want to talk about in this episode. um But the I think that we often don't take enough stock or maybe maybe people who have a lot and are comfortable not content, but comfortable, ah don't take a lot of stock in the effects of their actions and their lifestyle on other people.

10:51.82
Kevin Shock
um And so when I was that that in and of itself is something I've been thinking a lot about lately. But so then when I read this scripture passage for this week, I thought, oh, wow, that's really resonating with some things that I've been thinking about. and um And here we have something from scripture that upholds that idea that there there if if we are all in this together, then people who

11:28.46
Kevin Shock
do their best to elevate other people or themselves will have an effect on other people who need to be elevated. In that Psalm last week, we heard that God, God takes the lifts the people out of the out of the dust and out of the dung heap.

11:47.42
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

11:48.66
Kevin Shock
And, and the reality is human beings have the power to cast people into the dust and the dung heap um by

11:58.48
Nathan Pile
We do.

11:59.75
Kevin Shock
bias By selfish action and, yeah, well, by selfish action. that's end And the love of money.

12:12.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:15.81
Nathan Pile
Um...

12:20.29
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I appreciate um

12:25.66
Nathan Pile
I appreciate you pickin- pulling this out for us. though Though when you do do, by pulling it out, it means we have to confront it.

12:35.28
Kevin Shock
Ah, well, there you go.

12:37.07
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So I don't appreciate that.

12:39.05
Nathan Pile
Now we have to confront it Thanks. ah

12:42.58
Kevin Shock
ah

12:44.82
Nathan Pile
ah

12:45.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

12:46.56
Nathan Pile
No, no, I do appreciate it. Maybe it's part of my, my afternoon malaise that I'm a part of here today.

12:52.82
Kevin Shock
Oh, no, oh no.

12:52.89
Nathan Pile
ah ah

12:54.68
Kevin Shock
Afternoon malaise.

12:54.99
Nathan Pile
No, the, um because the truth that you articulate that my choices and decisions can trap others

13:14.49
Nathan Pile
as I seek to accomplish my to-do list.

13:21.43
Nathan Pile
Um,

13:25.30
Nathan Pile
like that gets in the way. Like, I don't like that. Um, and so I, I hear it, hear what you're saying. Um,

13:36.64
Nathan Pile
because Because I've, I've accepted in some ways my reality as a person in ministry, that I'm not going to be rich. However, the the other thing that that come, like, but I still have a temptation ah falling into my desires, which would be being successful in ministry.

13:46.92
Kevin Shock
OK, yeah. yeah

14:00.79
Nathan Pile
and a to-do list that needs to get accomplished to do those things.

14:02.61
Kevin Shock
Mmm. Mmm.

14:05.62
Nathan Pile
And that thereby, um the reality of doing ministry is that you need money to do it, you know, pay for other staff, buy supplies, those kinds of things.

14:13.80
Kevin Shock
Mmm. Well.

14:19.71
Nathan Pile
Um, and so again, I'm not, I'm not, um, under any delusion that though I know that I'm not getting rich and I'm not even saying the organization that I'm, um,

14:31.08
Nathan Pile
serving as leader of is getting rich. Uh, but there is a, there's personal temptation and desires to accomplish my to-do list, which I think will make our, um our ministry, um, better.

14:52.30
Nathan Pile
But I also know that, that sometimes my, my um, management of can affect or harm those who I work with.

15:14.57
Nathan Pile
Because maybe I don't have enough time to listen to their story today because I'm trying to accomplish my to-do list.

15:26.80
Nathan Pile
And in many ways, God is calling me to listen to their story.

15:37.27
Nathan Pile
But my desires get in the way of of slowing down to hear their story. To hear what's going on. To hear how they're hurting today.

15:51.55
Nathan Pile
so yeah. but so I, I just erased my...

15:57.76
Nathan Pile
Bible passage. Sorry, everyone.

15:59.93
Kevin Shock
Oh, I was wondering what you erased.

16:01.38
Nathan Pile
(Goblin? noises)

16:04.97
Nathan Pile
yeah Well, I closed it.

16:08.08
Kevin Shock
You closed your tab.

16:09.24
Nathan Pile
Yes. So I was clicking to get to it. And of course, as is always the case, Nathan has 27 things open. And so the the tab and the X are very close to each other.

16:23.77
Kevin Shock
no Yeah. Yeah. I see. Yes. I, I know what you mean.

16:26.77
Nathan Pile
So, um so as I was clicking back to look at the sentence that you were looking at.

16:27.35
Kevin Shock
that The, the, Yes. but my

16:34.14
Nathan Pile
um So I did just that idea of like, I hear that word rich, but I also can, I guess in, in my lifetime have power put put into that word rich, powerful and people in control.

16:50.23
Nathan Pile
um Cause I don't really can, some people might consider me rich because I'm a middle-aged person that has a, a nice house and and a nice car or two cars for my family.

17:02.58
Nathan Pile
And like, I live pretty well. So again, in the dynamics of, of all of the human beings living on the globe, I guess I am rich. I don't ever consider myself rich. Um, because I,

17:16.83
Nathan Pile
I just don't. um But middle class, I do consider myself middle class.

17:19.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

17:21.40
Nathan Pile
um But middle class America probably puts me in the top 10% of the world. So that would be rich.

17:31.63
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

17:32.04
Nathan Pile
But oftentimes when I hear that word rich, I do have tried to kind of associate it with privileged and and um people in control or having power.

17:43.02
Nathan Pile
And so those ideas of the, of temptation and, um and having my own desires, um they can plunge myself and, or others that I'm working with are working alongside um or managing into destruction and ruin because I want to get done my work list and I could care less. but I just thought that I don't care less.

18:07.92
Nathan Pile
but sometimes I can run roughshod over their feelings because I want to get my to-do list today done.

18:10.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

18:14.89
Nathan Pile
um

18:15.14
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah

18:16.39
Nathan Pile
And so um recognizing

18:25.11
Nathan Pile
and more recognizing that I need to make space for a more empathetic ear um is

18:35.23
Nathan Pile
isn't it's what I hear, you it was part of what I hear in this, in this passage that you've picked up. And so that's kind of my, um, why I say it's good to hear it, but maybe it also challenges me.

18:49.57
Nathan Pile
And so I don't like to hear it. So.

18:55.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, um, I appreciate that reflection because I do think that it's easy, boy, is it easy to say, well, this isn't about me.

19:07.32
Kevin Shock
This is about other people.

19:07.33
Nathan Pile
Right. Right. right

19:09.42
Kevin Shock
And I know that I have, I ah made a comment to somebody earlier um no a few days ago, i can't even remember exactly how it came up, but a comment about, I said, that i said there's there's one group of people that I tend to discriminate against, or I have a, I have a bias against.

19:32.93
Kevin Shock
And I said, it's billionaires. um Which, I mean, i kind of i was kind of joking about it, but also... I do think, I think being a billionaire is a moral failure.

19:45.79
Kevin Shock
um

19:45.85
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

19:47.33
Kevin Shock
because I don't think a lot of people comprehend how much much, how much wealth a billion dollars is and, and how that wealth can be used differently.

19:58.07
Kevin Shock
um the person I was talking to in a group of people, but the person who had called me over to ask my opinion about something, the conversation, it's always a danger when you do that, when you ask my opinion on something, um,

20:13.51
Kevin Shock
And I was talking about billionaires. I said, you know, there's, there's, there are a lot of people that are part of this group and they don't all, they don't all seem to share value systems, but they do all have the same moral failing. And I said, you know, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Donald Trump, Bruce Springsteen, Taylor Swift.

20:33.25
Kevin Shock
And when I got to Taylor Swift, boy, there was some pushback, but Taylor, but Taylor does all of these wonderful things for people. and And pays a living wage to her workers on tour. out Yes, yeah she absolutely does.

20:48.73
Kevin Shock
I said, imagine how much more she could do if she gave away her wealth. uh, and still had $999 million dollars to her name to live on.

20:59.41
Kevin Shock
Would she be able to survive on that?

20:59.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

21:01.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Um, and so, you it was kind of tongue in cheek, but there, there are people who have strong opinions about Taylor Swift.

21:08.64
Kevin Shock
And I included Bruce Springsteen in the list because I love Bruce Springsteen, but I think it's a moral failure that he's a billionaire. Um, Lisa and I were talking about this and why, why don't, why don't Bruce Springsteen and Taylor Swift just, um,

21:23.33
Kevin Shock
give away free tickets to their concerts for the rest of their lives. I mean, they won't, they don't need it.

21:26.93
Nathan Pile
Right. They're not going to, they don't need the money.

21:28.12
Kevin Shock
They don't need the money. They don't need the money. um

21:33.63
Kevin Shock
I went down a rabbit hole there. I can't, but anyway, it,

21:36.73
Nathan Pile
Well, I'm just impressed that you know that these people are billionaires. Like I didn't know that Taylor Swift and Bruce Springsteen were billionaires.

21:40.79
Kevin Shock
yeah, yeah, they are. They are this.

21:43.76
Nathan Pile
I would assumed millionaires, but I would not have guessed billionaires.

21:44.55
Kevin Shock
Well, well, and see, that's the thing is that they um like, once you, once you get that wealth has momentum. And so once you get it it, you just start accumulating.

21:56.17
Kevin Shock
I mean, I'm sure that Jeff Bezos makes more in an hour just on his investments than I will in an entire lifetime because of the vastness of his, I mean, he he's going to hit by the time he dies, he's going to hit trillionaire status, uh, because the momentum just keeps, you know, just keeps compounding on itself.

22:04.54
Nathan Pile
Wow.

22:10.74
Nathan Pile
Wow.

22:16.25
Kevin Shock
Um,

22:19.04
Kevin Shock
His ex-wife, on the other hand, has given away something like two-thirds of her entire wealth.

22:25.90
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

22:26.15
Kevin Shock
um So that's something to take note of. But it's easy for me, that's all to say, it's easy for me to say, well, the billionaires are the problem.

22:37.52
Kevin Shock
they ah Yes, I think on a grand scale, they are. But that does not mean that I am free from the same kind of problematic temptations in my life. and And there are still things that, ah ways that I'm sure that I um perhaps not plunge people into ruin and destruction and destruction, but perhaps push them toward it by my own selfish wants and desires.

23:06.93
Kevin Shock
I mean, I really hope that's not the case, so but I can see how easy it would be to do that.

23:14.20
Kevin Shock
So, anywho, why don't we look at it a second time? Because I think we probably already got a little bit into answering the second question.

23:22.67
Nathan Pile
All

23:28.19
Nathan Pile
right.

23:29.81
Kevin Shock
Did you find that tab again? OK.

23:31.28
Nathan Pile
I did. I found the tab. I, I went back and checked to make sure I put the in the right passage afterwards.

23:33.26
Kevin Shock
OK.

23:37.28
Kevin Shock
OK, good.

23:37.50
Nathan Pile
ah But I did. So, of course, there is great gain in godliness combined with contentment.

23:42.76
Kevin Shock
Of course.

23:46.48
Nathan Pile
For we brought nothing into the world, so that we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. But those who want to be rich fall into temptation and are trapped by many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

24:08.82
Nathan Pile
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. And in their eagerness to be rich, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.

24:21.43
Nathan Pile
But as for you, man of God, shun all this. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith.

24:34.89
Nathan Pile
Hold on, hold, take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and for which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

24:47.85
Nathan Pile
In the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep the commandment without spot or blame

25:03.83
Nathan Pile
until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

25:07.18
Nathan Pile
which he will bring about at the right time he who is the blessed and only sovereign the king of kings the lord of lords it is he alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light whom no one has ever seen or can see to him be honour and eternal dominion. Amen. As for those who in the present age are rich, command them not to be haughty or to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.

25:46.40
Nathan Pile
They are to do good, to be rich in good works, generous and ready to share, thus storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future.

25:57.36
Nathan Pile
so that they may take hold of the life that really is life.

26:06.85
Nathan Pile
ah Toward what is God calling you in this text, Kevin?

26:12.92
Kevin Shock
um, ah, Contentment is rolling around in my head.

26:17.71
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

26:19.74
Kevin Shock
But I think ah with a little more depth to that, I think that it's contentment that is made evident in the example and person of Jesus Christ.

26:32.57
Kevin Shock
um we're in the We're in the year of Luke. And Jesus... Boy, does Luke's Jesus really eschew, uh, wealth possessions.

26:48.06
Kevin Shock
I mean, he really pushes it away. He tells, tells his disciples, uh, don't, you know, when you, when, when you go out proclaiming, don't take anything with you. Rely on, uh, rely on the generosity of other people.

27:04.79
Kevin Shock
Um, And I don't think that Jesus is telling his disciples to mooch off of others, but he's telling them to live into but relationships of mutuality.

27:20.00
Kevin Shock
I mean, they're there healing the sick and proclaiming good news. um

27:27.40
Kevin Shock
and And because of those things and because of the spirit moving among them, those people want to meet their needs.

27:39.27
Kevin Shock
um I think, you know, I don't, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but we, um

27:49.15
Kevin Shock
going back to what we were talking about last week too, that this, God gives us the gift of community and it's much easier to be content in community than it is to be content on our own.

28:04.40
Kevin Shock
I mean, I'm making an assumption, but I think it is. I think when we have a strong network of people we ah trust and can rely on, then we might be led to live to live lives that are, that from human standards seem to be a little more risk-taking and perhaps not so self-preserving.

28:36.34
Kevin Shock
um in the relationships that we build and in the, in the, ah, the the richness and good works that we perform. The generosity that we show. Yeah,

28:52.62
Kevin Shock
yeah and I think that's born out of contentment as we see as we see Christ living out contentment. And what is contentment? Contentment is, I- Paul has a definition of it, or maybe he,

29:08.35
Kevin Shock
maybe he Maybe he uses content in that. But when he says in Philippians, I've, I think he says, I've learned to be content with all things. in in In plenty and in want.

29:20.89
Kevin Shock
um

29:24.95
Kevin Shock
So contentment isn't about how much you have. It's about a mindset and maybe a heart set. It's about being spiritually rich, spiritually full.

29:38.39
Kevin Shock
relationally rich relationally full and therefore not needing to worry about the amount of possessions that you have

29:51.57
Kevin Shock
so it's contentment but it's not um like I try to shy away from in other things it's not just a sense of Well, I'm going to be content. I don't know how to make myself content, but what I do know is that I can look to the person of Jesus for a model of contentment.

30:10.70
Kevin Shock
And I can follow in his way.

30:18.19
Nathan Pile
So and just to make sure that I hear your reflection, right? um This idea of contentment

30:29.12
Nathan Pile
can't be found in us. so So that going back to that idea of that I said when I made my reflection of of life,

30:40.27
Nathan Pile
whatever the ending phrase here was, uh, life that really is life.

30:42.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah. like The life that really is. yeah Yeah.

30:45.90
Nathan Pile
Um, like as, as, as we're, as we're constantly seeking to find and hold on to life that really is life.

30:46.92
Kevin Shock
That's contentment. I think. Yeah.

30:54.97
Nathan Pile
When I ask that inside personal question to myself annually for the last 25 years, part of the, part of what I hear you saying is that the, that secret isn't found in Nathan.

31:13.80
Nathan Pile
Nathan trying to find life in the midst of real life is all, we're always going to fall short in that because we're, we're looking for, we're looking for an answer in in a finite

31:35.28
Nathan Pile
um

31:37.76
Nathan Pile
example like if it's my example, like if I'm looking at my life and saying, Nathan, what is what what is life that we're holding on to to make real life? The reality is in 25 years, what i was what I was interested in 25 years ago and what I'm interested in now are probably two different things. So there's a there's a level of what I enjoyed 25 years ago. And if I'm still leaking seeking that same life 25 years later, I'm probably...

32:06.66
Nathan Pile
and seeking it in a source that might not be able to fill it. Whereas if, if that source is the divine, is God, it's able to change with me because it's a much deeper source.

32:19.55
Kevin Shock
yeah

32:20.30
Nathan Pile
Is that what you're, so that just want to make sure that I'm, it's profound.

32:24.48
Nathan Pile
I'm just making sure that I'm quoting you or understanding what you were trying to say.

32:29.98
Kevin Shock
I think that... um I think that it's, yeah, I, no, I think it's like, I think it's a proper interpretation of what I was saying. I don't know that I would say it exactly that way, but yes, I know. I agree with what you're saying.

32:43.51
Kevin Shock
um I, I think the nuance that I would bring to it is that I think that maybe contentment is an internal thing, but it's not, but it's not something that we can, gen- I liked what you said about a finite source.

33:01.57
Kevin Shock
It's not something that we can generate on our own. Um, I think contentment is, and maybe I'm off base a little bit with this, but I do think that contentment is somewhat akin to a gift or a fruit of the spirit so that, uh, it is, it is within us, but it does not come from, it is not, it is not rooted or sourced from within us.

33:29.93
Kevin Shock
Um, And, and so I think that contentment only comes along when we are, what, what the author of first Timothy is saying here, when we're, when we are seeking to be spiritually rich.

33:52.79
Kevin Shock
Um, and, and, you know, there might be different

33:59.18
Kevin Shock
different ways that we can become spiritually rich. But I do think, I think that has something to do with it. So, so ah yes. Yeah. I mean, yes, I, I basically agree agree with your interpretation of it.

34:12.65
Kevin Shock
Um, just as I was thinking about it, as I was listening to you thinking about it you know, just like some small word changes that I would add from where I was coming from when I was talking about it. But yeah, I do think that the contentment is a spiritual gift.

34:29.36
Kevin Shock
I think it does reside within us, but it comes from outside of us. Um, and I think that everyone has the ability to find it within themselves.

34:39.51
Kevin Shock
If only, if only they're looking, uh, to, to yeah, for it.

34:43.56
Nathan Pile
for it.

34:45.58
Kevin Shock
And, and to the, I liked what you said about how you can't, you can't find contentment in a finite source. Um,

34:56.86
Kevin Shock
I don't know if that's exactly what you said, but you said something akin to that. and and And your example of if I'm if I'm still looking for, what did you say exactly? If I'm still looking for ah the life that I was seeking 25 years ago and I haven't found it yet, then maybe I'm not looking in the right place for it.

35:15.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

35:15.83
Kevin Shock
Or I'm, I'm looking for at a source that can't fill that want or that need. Yeah. I think that's ah i think that's a wise way to look at it.

35:26.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

35:31.05
Nathan Pile
Well, and that, I, again, that idea of contentment, um

35:39.02
Nathan Pile
it's not a word that we use today very much.

35:42.54
Kevin Shock
No, it's a word that I wish we used more, but yes.

35:45.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, cause it feels a little bit like average, right?

35:50.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

35:50.72
Nathan Pile
If I'm content, you know, if I'm content, I'm, I'm, uh, again, it makes sense that if we're going to live together,

36:03.39
Nathan Pile
Um, you've, you've referenced going back to last week's, um, reading a couple of times today. Um, that idea of living together contentment seems like the way forward because we can't all be hugely successful.

36:21.04
Nathan Pile
There's two, we don't have enough resources for us, for every human being on the face of the planet to be hugely successful. There's not enough things.

36:32.59
Nathan Pile
There's not enough stuff. There's not enough riches for us all to have, for us all to be rich.

36:44.04
Kevin Shock
Right.

36:44.13
Nathan Pile
But contentment, contentment is, is a different, is a different factor.

36:55.51
Nathan Pile
Um, um So, yeah, no, I like it. It's challenging. It's an interesting thought to me. I'll probably end up writing myself a little note to think about this more after we're done.

37:12.15
Nathan Pile
Because what does that look like, in again, in our in ministry?

37:17.61
Nathan Pile
um

37:21.41
Nathan Pile
You know, we always, again, as the camp director at Sequanota, I want the ministry to be the best it can be.

37:29.88
Nathan Pile
But that also means then that I, I, I want you more than maybe we should take.

37:40.88
Nathan Pile
And so what does contentment look like in ministry?

37:45.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

37:46.24
Nathan Pile
So that all of us have a life of dignity.

37:46.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

37:52.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um You said, oh gosh, you said something but really really grabbed me and now it I guess I let go of it.

38:04.93
Nathan Pile
has let go. Whatever it was, grabbed and let go.

38:07.23
Kevin Shock
Shoot. Shoot. Yeah. Um, oh gosh, maybe I'll, maybe it'll come back to me.

38:18.14
Kevin Shock
I don't know. I don't know. Anyway.

38:26.79
Nathan Pile
yeah I can't, I don't know what it would have said that would have.

38:29.11
Kevin Shock
No, no, no, no. I wouldn't expect you to know. I'm yeah. I'm,

38:37.56
Kevin Shock
Yep. but Well, let's move on. and I'll if it If it needs to come back, it will. um

38:43.92
Nathan Pile
Um, so for me, since you're, maybe you can think a little bit while I share my answer to this second question.

38:46.50
Kevin Shock
Yes.

38:52.53
Nathan Pile
Um, no, I was just ah reflecting off of your response.

38:52.65
Kevin Shock
oh did oh you didn't share yet. I'm so sorry.

38:57.19
Nathan Pile
That's okay.

38:57.39
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right. Because you asked me.

38:58.64
Nathan Pile
Um, the, the, the, the two things that caught me as I was reading it, this was in the middle section where I glazed over the first time.

38:59.19
Kevin Shock
Okay. Okay.

39:09.23
Nathan Pile
Um, Uh, is that what is the good confession and keeping the commandment?

39:15.05
Kevin Shock
Mm. Mm.

39:17.42
Nathan Pile
and So I want to do those things because that's what Jesus does. Right. Um, not that I'm Jesus, but I want to have the good confession and I want to keep the commandment.

39:28.40
Nathan Pile
Um, That's my, that's the example. That's, that's what we're called to, to mirror in some way. Um, and so I, I am a little, I mean, I'm curious. I would like to ask Timothy, um, what is the good confession, Timothy?

39:45.92
Nathan Pile
i

39:46.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

39:46.64
Nathan Pile
I think I know what the commandment is, ah but I'm not positive. um if it if you know Love God and love your neighbor um ah is is what I'm going with as the commandment.

39:59.27
Nathan Pile
But is there something else that I'm not... um catching onto. So, so loving my neighbor and loving God are, I think are are the things that I would be feeling called towards in this.

40:12.70
Nathan Pile
So in the midst of life and living of life, um, I need to love my neighbor and, and, and love God. And that a part of that tension is putting into perspective

40:30.23
Nathan Pile
again, because I've kind of put this in in context of where I'm at, you know, I want the best for Sequanota. um

40:39.33
Nathan Pile
And thinking that that um my prejudice would be that I think that we offer a great thing and I want everybody to be a part of it. And therefore I need more resources so that more people can be a part of it. and um But maybe there's a part of this commandment of loving my neighbor and loving God Um, that I need to just be able to love my neighbor and not, um, not, and we've never forced anyone to come to camp or to come on a retreat at Sequanota.

41:16.66
Nathan Pile
Um, but sometimes I can be zealous enough to think that you would be a better Christian if you did.

41:28.17
Nathan Pile
and but

41:28.60
Kevin Shock
Wow.

41:29.53
Nathan Pile
And so putting that aside, know, putting that aside to recognize how to do how do how how at times do I just love my neighbor?

41:31.44
Kevin Shock
How haughty of you to think.

41:41.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

41:45.50
Nathan Pile
for where they're at.

41:46.64
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

41:46.80
Nathan Pile
So, um, so that would be the area that, that I, I would want to be able to confess the good confession and keep the commandment recognizing I'm going to fail, fail miserably at that every day.

42:00.45
Nathan Pile
Um, but I'm going to wake up again tomorrow and I'll try again. Um, that's my Martin Luther influence. Um, recognizing that I'm not going to be able to, to, to accomplish the things that are, um,

42:17.66
Nathan Pile
that only God can do. um But also recognizing that, how do I keep the commandment? um um I'm not going to do it without spot or blame.

42:30.20
Nathan Pile
That doesn't seem really, that doesn't seem really possible for me.

42:30.23
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

42:33.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

42:33.82
Nathan Pile
um I'm, I am going to be imperfect in trying to do it, but but even trying to, just to try and keep doing it, to try and keep loving God and loving my neighbor. um If I can do that,

42:48.39
Nathan Pile
then I do feel like I'm, I'm moving forward.

42:54.05
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

42:56.01
Nathan Pile
So

43:01.30
Nathan Pile
that's my two cents. All

43:04.69
Kevin Shock
Okay.

43:05.55
Nathan Pile
right.

43:05.80
Kevin Shock
All right.

43:06.04
Nathan Pile
I'm going to this a third time.

43:06.36
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, let's do it a third time.

43:12.17
Kevin Shock
From 1 Timothy. Of course there is a great gain in godliness combined with contentment. For if we brought nothing into the world so that... For we brought nothing into the world so that we can take nothing out of it.

43:26.84
Kevin Shock
But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with these. But those who want to be rich fall into temptation... And are trapped by many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

43:40.66
Kevin Shock
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. And in their eagerness to be rich, some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains.

43:52.11
Kevin Shock
But as for you, men of God, shun all this. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you are called, and for which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

44:08.86
Kevin Shock
In the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession, I charge you to keep the commandment without spot or blame,

44:20.66
Kevin Shock
until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, which he will bring about at the right time. He who is blessed, he who is the blessed and only sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, it is he alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light whom no one has ever seen or can see.

44:43.41
Kevin Shock
To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. As for those who in the present age are rich, command them not to be haughty or to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment.

45:01.14
Kevin Shock
They are to do good, be to be rich in good works, generous and ready to share, thus storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of the life that really is life Nathan, what is your treasure of a good foundation for the future?

45:22.60
Nathan Pile
Uh, I think I get, um,

45:30.01
Nathan Pile
I'm going to pull my answer, I think, from some of the things that you were saying earlier, which is the people, the peoples that are in my life.

45:36.77
Kevin Shock
hmm.

45:38.58
Nathan Pile
Um, that's, if I understand the question, that part, I still, I'm not positive I do, but, um, um,

45:46.16
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

45:49.82
Nathan Pile
ah the treasure that is a good foundation for me are going to be the relationships that go on with me, um, in, in life, um, and what that looks like. And so being able to, um, to have those people in my life. Uh, and I think the other part of this would be,

46:16.98
Nathan Pile
um the experiences that also are a part of life. And so, um, one of the things that I think about, um, that has been, been reaffirmed in my life this, at the end of this summer camp season, last, last season, um, we took a trip up into the Adiran-, Adiran-, Adirondacks, um, for camp. And we didn't go this year cause we didn't have ah enough, um, reservations to do so.

46:45.49
Nathan Pile
Um, But I miss being surrounded

46:53.61
Nathan Pile
like on a trip like that. um Just being surrounded in in creation and in in the natural world.

46:55.39
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

46:59.70
Nathan Pile
And so I said relationships and and was intending it for to be humans. But as I thought more about it, like. a part of the treasure of my foundation as I think about life going forward is that I'm going to need to make sure I, I RECreate, reCREate whatever word you want to use, however, wherever you want to say it.

47:23.58
Nathan Pile
um um, because I think they both have meaning. Um, where I'm putting my emphasis there. And so being outside, being ah in in midst of the relationship that I have with the natural world and appreciate it, even though I work in it on a daily basis, I don't, a lot of that time in the summer is not spent marveling at the natural world because I'm immersed in the middle of it and trying to, um, accomplish specific camp goals.

47:50.59
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

47:57.42
Nathan Pile
Um, while we have people here. um So I need experiences of of of the natural world. um And that can be with other people, or it can just be with me.

48:11.22
Nathan Pile
um But that's still in my mind, a bit of ah ah experiences of relationship, me relating to the natural world that God has also created. And then the other part of that is the human relationship piece.

48:21.49
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

48:24.69
Nathan Pile
Right. to be able to kind of go back and articulate that maybe a little bit better. um Both of those things I think are, are a part of

48:36.78
Nathan Pile
the foundation that I will need for the future, whatever the future looks like. It's, it's, it's the people that I ah love and, um

48:49.64
Nathan Pile
and enjoy. um That's, there's that word joy. um that God gives me joy in

48:59.77
Nathan Pile
because of our relationship together. And so whether that be in working together or in spending time together as family or just in social interactions with others, um where that piece of joy is that, that needs to, know,

49:18.16
Nathan Pile
that goes with, um, that's why, that's why they're a treasure to me is because there's joy in our interactions and our time. Um, and so those relationships, the relationship with the natural world, um, kind of together, I think helped me answer that question

49:40.57
Nathan Pile
for a few, what, what, what, what I will, what needs to be a part of my good foundation for the future. So, How about you, my friend? What is your treasure of a good foundation for the future?

49:53.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I'm thinking relationships. Going back to something I mentioned earlier, talking about how I think that we really are part a great network part of a great network in the body of Christ and in the whole human family.

50:15.22
Kevin Shock
um So I think that um

50:21.10
Kevin Shock
for me, I think that it's relationships with people and building up what, you know, what some people would call like social capital, but that, that to me almost makes it sound like it's a, it's selfish and in its ends.

50:33.86
Kevin Shock
ah And I don't mean it in a selfish way, but the reality is I think the more,

50:41.56
Kevin Shock
the stronger and deeper our relationships are with one another the the the better we will care for and be taken care of as time goes on um but for me it's also mixed with that uh that foundation of

51:04.05
Kevin Shock
the of Christ Jesus of um of his model of contentment of his saving grace of his ah yeah i mean his his salvation for the whole world um his immeasurable untouchable love not untouchable love but unattainable love we don't attain it because it's given to us um yeah

51:38.79
Kevin Shock
So I think, and I think building, continuing to build on that foundation of faith, ah because I think I gain a greater understanding of the network in which the whole human family is bound.

51:53.34
Kevin Shock
If I understand better the nature of the one who made us all and the one who draw drew us all together.

52:04.66
Kevin Shock
um And that, little discussion there reminded me of the thing that I had forgotten about in the last question.

52:17.58
Kevin Shock
And that was, I've really, I've been wondering with you, along with you, what is the, what is the good confession? um and because,

52:28.97
Kevin Shock
ah Timothy or whomever this letter is this letter is being written to, um

52:33.49
Nathan Pile
This is, yeah. Yeah.

52:39.15
Kevin Shock
apparently made this good perfect confession in the presence of many witnesses. And ah Jesus Christ, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession.

52:50.62
Kevin Shock
Like, I feel like that should tell us what the good confession is.

52:50.70
Nathan Pile
yeah

52:53.64
Kevin Shock
And I don't, I don't know to what exactly they're referring when they talk about this testimony before Pontius.

52:59.23
Nathan Pile
so

53:02.29
Kevin Shock
But I mean, I know what the testimony before Pontius Pilate was, but I don't know what exactly Jesus said in that testimony. That is,

53:08.46
Nathan Pile
made it Made it the good confession.

53:09.30
Kevin Shock
considered to be a ah good confession.

53:10.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

53:12.75
Kevin Shock
Except that the thing that keeps coming to mind for me is that Jesus confessed that he was not a king.

53:24.94
Kevin Shock
but there was There's something for me about um him not, and we hear this throughout Luke too, ah him not taking a higher seat of honor than he ought.

53:39.94
Kevin Shock
which to me sounds like part of the part of the problem here that's being talked about in this letter is that people people pursuing a higher position or a higher seat of power than what they ought is what gets people into trouble.

53:58.18
Kevin Shock
um

54:00.76
Kevin Shock
And so the the the confession, ah just think of when Jesus says... um to Pontius Pilate when, you know, they're going back and forth. Well, more, more back than forth, I guess.

54:14.10
Kevin Shock
ah But when, um when Pontius Pilate says, well, Jesus, Jesus says something.

54:19.96
Nathan Pile
Are you a king?

54:21.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Jesus says something like, you know, um ah something about his kingdom. ah My kingdom is not from this world. And and Pontius Pilate says in response, so you are a king.

54:34.11
Kevin Shock
And Jesus's response to that is you say that I am.

54:40.31
Kevin Shock
That's a powerful confession of I'm not giving that title to myself. I'm not pursuing that position or that power or that wealth on my own.

54:55.54
Kevin Shock
If it's handed to me, then that's a life I can live, but I'm not pursuing it on my own. And And so that I think that that's meaningful to me in the context of the scripture, because I think this scripture is about not, well, it says right there in verse 11, pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance, and gentleness.

55:18.21
Kevin Shock
not Not wealth, not riches, but pursue all of these other things. And, um, And I do wonder if that's the if the good confession that Jesus makes in his testimony before Pilate is that he is not calling himself a king.

55:37.22
Nathan Pile
hmm

55:40.58
Kevin Shock
Because he's the same Jesus who said, no one is good but God alone.

55:48.62
Kevin Shock
when When someone calls him good teacher, no one is good but God alone. So there's a sense of... um

55:58.54
Kevin Shock
this This treasure also includes humility, maybe, or or understanding our own place in the world.

56:08.19
Kevin Shock
Recognizing our place in the in that interconnected, that network of people and God who is in the midst of all of it.

56:24.90
Nathan Pile
Well, you're- I, I like

56:31.35
Nathan Pile
the idea of what that good confession could be. I don't know if that's the actual confession, but but I like the idea of of what you're so what you're sharing there um and what that means for us.

56:35.61
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

56:44.82
Nathan Pile
But it does... it does on a, on a culture and a society that's, that, that is rampant with the ideas of

56:58.34
Nathan Pile
pull yourself up by your bootstraps and be successful, you know, as a person, like this is, this is in stark contrast to that.

57:01.75
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

57:11.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right. Right.

57:14.28
Nathan Pile
So, um,

57:15.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I was, yeah, I was just, I just saw something recently about um things that scripture doesn't actually say. and And one of the big ones is God helps those who help themselves.

57:27.11
Nathan Pile
right

57:27.76
Kevin Shock
That's not, that's not, not only is that not in scripture, it's not even a scriptural idea.

57:33.09
Nathan Pile
It's like this.

57:33.44
Kevin Shock
and doesn't even reflect the scriptural idea.

57:35.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

57:36.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

57:40.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

57:42.55
Nathan Pile
Anything else, my friend?

57:44.53
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. How about you give us those additional texts?

57:45.98
Nathan Pile
All right. Additional texts this week. Amos chapter 6, verse 1a and ah verses 4 through 7. Warnings to those who are comfortable or wealthy.

57:59.14
Nathan Pile
um Again, kind of what we've been um struggling with here this hour.

58:02.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

58:05.37
Nathan Pile
ah Psalm 146. The Lord gives justice to those who are oppressed. ah Luke 16, chapter 16, verses 19 through 31. This is the story of poor Lazarus and the wealthy man.

58:20.49
Nathan Pile
um

58:23.10
Nathan Pile
And as Kevin has kind of reiterated kind of throughout this this season of Luke, Luke and the idea of talking about possessions and our wealth, this is yet another one of those passages that Luke that Luke challenges us with.

58:38.95
Nathan Pile
And then our semi-continuous readings from ah the first Testament this week is Jeremiah chapter 32 verses one through three a and verse ah six through 15.

58:51.91
Nathan Pile
And this is Jeremiah builds, buys a field. um

58:57.51
Nathan Pile
And then Psalm 91 verses one through six and 14 through 16. Okay. through sixteen You are my refuge and my stronghold, my God in whom I put my trust.

59:11.15
Nathan Pile
As always, Kevin, it is um it is good to share in reading of Scripture and reflecting together. as um As is typically the case, I have some...

59:23.27
Nathan Pile
some things I would like to continue to wrestle with from this week's passages in our conversation. So thank you for that. um Those of you that are listening, we encourage you to and to share with us any reflections or ah things that pop up ah from our conversation or from your own reading of scripture this week.

59:41.73
Nathan Pile
um And you can do that on social media or in our email. We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

59:51.70
Kevin Shock
And peace.