Episode 50: Habakkuk 1:1-4; 2:1-4

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you live righteously in unjust times?

Additional texts:

Psalm 37:1-9

2 Timothy 1:1-14

Luke 17:5-10

Lamentations 1:1-6

Lamentations 3:19-26

Psalm 137

Transcript

00:00:01.72
Kevin Shock
Good morning or evening or afternoon, whenever it is that you're listening to this podcast.

00:00:08.21
Nathan Pile
what was ah What was that movie um that...

00:00:08.60
Kevin Shock
It's.

00:00:14.35
Kevin Shock
I don't know.

00:00:15.87
Nathan Pile
Truman Show. Truman Show. The guy said... um The guy would say so hello to him or good morning to him. He'd say, you know, good morning.

00:00:28.46
Nathan Pile
And if I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening, and good night. That's what you sounded like there.

00:00:33.54
Kevin Shock
Oh, okay.

00:00:34.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it was...

00:00:34.91
Kevin Shock
Oh.

00:00:38.98
Nathan Pile
Like every morning he would do the same thing.

00:00:39.09
Kevin Shock
I, um,

00:00:41.10
Nathan Pile
That was the thing of the Truman Show, right?

00:00:43.53
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Yeah. I don't remember that. Well, I'm not going to say good night to people because I'm hoping that no one uses this podcast to help put them to sleep. Um, but, but I suppose that's an option.

00:00:55.39
Nathan Pile
I guess that would not be that would not be good. That wouldn't be a good...

00:01:00.24
Kevin Shock
Well, we could just,

00:01:00.57
Nathan Pile
um If you use us to go to sleep, don't tell us. That would hurt my self-esteem.

00:01:06.08
Kevin Shock
Every, every, yes, yes. if As long as we live in blissful ignorance, we don't care. um Every week we get an email that tells us how many, how many episodes have been downloaded or how many unique downloads there have been.

00:01:10.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yep yeah

00:01:17.88
Kevin Shock
And so I don't, I don't want to learn that 10% of those downloads are as a sleep aid.

00:01:20.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah. 50 people are using it to go to sleep.

00:01:24.14
Kevin Shock
Yes. um Anyway, we're we're glad to be together and glad to ah have you with us too, even though it's asynchronous and um we can't see you or interact with you, but But please, as always, as it says at the end of the podcast, interact with us ah in whatever ways work best for you.

00:01:44.35
Kevin Shock
But today, Nathan and I are going to be talking about a prophet, a minor prophet. That doesn't mean that their message is less than, less important. It just is a way to refer to the shorter books of prophecy in Hebrew scripture, of which there are 12.

00:02:04.42
Kevin Shock
But we are looking at the prophet. How do you say it, Nathan?

00:02:08.24
Nathan Pile
I say it, Hab-ah-cook.

00:02:10.36
Kevin Shock
Okay. And I've always said it, Ha-back-uhk. um ah We discovered that there is ah those are both common ways of saying this prophet's name because apparently people don't agree on how to pronounce the biblical Hebrew.

00:02:24.06
Kevin Shock
um So Habakkuk. Now I can't Habakkuk and Habakkuk. They're the same person. If you hear Nathan and I pronouncing them differently. I'm going to try to change my pronunciation for the sake of this podcast, but I will probably slip back into what I'm used to saying.

00:02:44.24
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:02:44.64
Kevin Shock
In any case, we're going to look at, yeah, either way, we're talking about the same prophet, the same person.

00:02:44.72
Nathan Pile
It's fine. It's okay. Either way. Either way is fine.

00:02:49.95
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:02:50.91
Kevin Shock
And we're looking at a brief passage from two different chapters ah in the prophet. And um yeah, and we will talk about that, that passage using three questions, that are two of which may be familiar to you.

00:03:10.92
Kevin Shock
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Oh, I forgot to mention, we're also using the Common English Bible, which can be found on BibleGateway app or BibleGateway.com. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

00:03:23.70
Kevin Shock
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how do you live righteously in unjust times?

00:03:33.72
Nathan Pile
Wow. Some information about your hosts.

00:03:36.74
Kevin Shock
Wow.

00:03:37.00
Nathan Pile
We're men married.

00:03:37.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:03:38.41
Nathan Pile
yeah it's going to be a tough one.

00:03:41.58
Nathan Pile
um ah Because we're living it.

00:03:45.18
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:03:46.76
Nathan Pile
And it ain't easy. Anyway, um information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable uh households, white, firmly in our middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

00:04:01.46
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read and discuss scripture, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom in scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

00:04:16.98
Nathan Pile
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as you engage with this Bible passage.

00:04:28.28
Nathan Pile
chapters 1 and 2, verses 1 through 4 in Habakkuk

00:04:36.57
Nathan Pile
the oracle that Habakkuk the prophet saw

00:04:41.16
Nathan Pile
lord how long will I call for help and you not listen. I cry out to you violence but you don't deliver us why do you show me injustice and looked at anguish so will take my post.

00:05:02.34
Nathan Pile
there is strife and conflict abounds the instruction is ineffective justice does not endure because the wicked surround the righteous justice becomes warped

00:05:16.60
Nathan Pile
I will take my post I will position myself on the fortress. I will keep watch to see what the Lord says to me and how he will respond to my complaint.

00:05:30.18
Nathan Pile
Then the Lord answered me and said, Write a vision and make it plain upon a tablet so that a runner can read it. There is still a vision for the ah appointed time.

00:05:43.93
Nathan Pile
It testifies to the end. It does not deceive. If it delays, wait for it. For it is surely coming. It will not be late.

00:05:55.01
Nathan Pile
Some people's desires are truly audacious. They don't do the right thing. But the righteous person will live honestly.

00:06:09.74
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. And if you're... listening at any other time than nighttime, you can listen to Kevin's response to what word, phrase, or image strikes you in the text, Kevin.

00:06:28.69
Kevin Shock
Um, ah frankly, audacious,

00:06:35.71
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

00:06:37.51
Kevin Shock
because, um I mean, I had a sense of what audacious means, but, but it mostly, um, um perked my ears up because the CEB is a translation that is intended to be easy for people to understand. And I feel like this is not a commonly used word.

00:06:55.35
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah.

00:06:55.59
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:06:57.99
Kevin Shock
So I did have to look, just do a quick look online to see what audacious actually means. Because I thought it meant like, I've I've heard it in a good um connotation that like, you're bold, like you're taking risks. Yeah.

00:07:19.65
Nathan Pile
Isn't that bodacious?

00:07:21.37
Kevin Shock
No, that's audacious. No, no. Like, like, ah like Barack Obama's one book, the audacity of hope, like, like that's a positive way to think about it.

00:07:32.50
Kevin Shock
And sure enough, that is the first definition of audacious. But the second definition is showing an impudent lack of respect, which I feel like that is, I feel like that's what, uh,

00:07:40.35
Nathan Pile
Ah...

00:07:44.14
Nathan Pile
That's what the author is going for.

00:07:44.24
Kevin Shock
Habakkuk is is going for here yeah um because the the other translation that I looked at the nrsv which frankly it was hard for me to decide between the two this week um because the nrsv says some things in a particular way that I liked um what does he say what does it say

00:07:45.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:08:07.41
Kevin Shock
Oh, look at the proud. That's what it look at the proud. Their spirit is not right in them, but the righteous live by their faithfulness versus um some people's desires are truly audacious. They don't do the right thing.

00:08:22.62
Kevin Shock
But the righteous person will live honestly.

00:08:22.79
Nathan Pile
What

00:08:24.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And actually, there's a note here in the common English Bible right beside audacious, a footnote that says the Hebrew is uncertain. but to but People aren't exactly sure what that word in Hebrew means.

00:08:37.29
Nathan Pile
but even what the Hebrew word means.

00:08:37.76
Kevin Shock
So, yeah. So I guess it makes sense then to put an English word there that people aren't exactly sure what it means sometimes.

00:08:47.97
Kevin Shock
But that, so that was, ah I don't, That's just a definition thing. That's not something that like really, you captured my spirit. It just made me consider, but I guess it's important that we consider those things.

00:08:59.99
Kevin Shock
um I, right before that, there was something else that, spoke to me and that is, um, if it delays the vision, that is, if the vision delays, wait for it or it is surely coming. It will not be late.

00:09:17.71
Kevin Shock
Um, I think that's a really good way for me to think about God's vision for humanity, for the situations we currently face.

00:09:33.10
Kevin Shock
Um, That God is not, i don't know, those those words say to me that God is not being silent on purpose.

00:09:45.11
Kevin Shock
or Or rather, maybe god God may appear to be silent on purpose, but God is doing something, preparing something that will come at the right time.

00:10:01.18
Kevin Shock
ah There is still a vision for the appointed time. It is surely coming. It will not be late.

00:10:11.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think, um was it, yeah, it was a couple of episodes ago, we made mention of our, one of our regular listeners, Sherry, who does stay awake while she's listening to our podcast, from what I can tell,

00:10:25.20
Kevin Shock
um

00:10:28.33
Kevin Shock
who made, who said something in her email about, um you know, why doesn't, I wish that God would just kind of, uh, start all over again with us or something like that. But, but then we would, and this is my paraphrase of what she said, I can't remember exactly, but then we would probably mess it all up again.

00:10:47.97
Kevin Shock
And like, I, yeah, I, I, I totally feel that way too, that, um, like it would be nice for God just to like snap God's fingers and say, okay, everything's good now.

00:10:59.81
Kevin Shock
Um, I think of that in this context, because it seems like whenever people, including the prophet here are saying, what is taking so long? Why are you, why why can't you show us now?

00:11:17.22
Kevin Shock
It may not be the right time. Like God knows when we're ready for it. And God knows when all the things that need to be prepared will be prepared.

00:11:21.43
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:11:25.55
Kevin Shock
And so I like those words in this reading, it will not be late. Like that says to me, yeah,

00:11:31.70
Nathan Pile
Like there's a there's a piece of a promise still there.

00:11:35.53
Kevin Shock
yeah. And, and it says to me, like, you may be thinking now it's already late, but no, now's not the time.

00:11:41.49
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:11:43.34
Kevin Shock
It will not be late. Um, and I, I know I'm not supposed to add words to scripture, but I, I like the thinking about it in the sense of also, it will not be too late.

00:11:55.75
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:11:57.61
Kevin Shock
ah Um, what What we need, what needs to be repaired will be repaired in it in its due time.

00:12:06.66
Kevin Shock
And and this this prophecy does say to me that um this things things may get really, really bad. Really, really, really bad. um But the promise, the vision is never entirely gone.

00:12:24.62
Kevin Shock
there There will always restoration. Restoration. I just wish it would happen now, but yeah.

00:12:34.38
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure. Well, and but I, again, your reflecting does bring a sense of hope for us um

00:12:50.39
Nathan Pile
and reminding us that the divine is paying attention.

00:12:57.67
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:12:57.77
Nathan Pile
Even even though our impatience and our um our desire to be on our timeline, which again... we're reminded of over and over again that um

00:13:12.72
Nathan Pile
those are those are our wants. Those are my ways aren't God's ways. um But God, this piece of it, not it will not be late. you know That idea of that promise that God says,

00:13:29.97
Nathan Pile
I see that you're seeking this vision and whenever the time is, whenever that vision, um it will show up in it in ah in a time that is appropriate

00:13:41.36
Nathan Pile
to bring about God's direction for us. Because maybe we're not quite ready for it yet.

00:13:50.50
Nathan Pile
Or God sees that we're not ready for it yet.

00:13:55.84
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm yeah.

00:13:56.58
Nathan Pile
No.

00:13:57.07
Kevin Shock
so what about you, Nathan? What, um,

00:13:59.87
Nathan Pile
I, I'm, I'm going off of the idea of audacious, maybe even bodacious, in the first verse, in the first chapter, the oracle that Habakkuk, the prophet, saw.

00:14:13.51
Nathan Pile
like This is essentially like writing a sentence of saying, um here, I'm going to write this to you um

00:14:25.39
Nathan Pile
in, like, I'm going to tell you what God told me. that's That's essentially what this sentence is saying. That's how Habakkuk starts the, like, I'm going to write my book.

00:14:37.01
Nathan Pile
And here's the first sentence. Like, we have some really eloquent, beautiful, um in the beginning, you know, you get Genesis and even John, you know, you get some literary kind of, here, Habakkuk just is going to say, ah the message God gave me, Habakkuk, the prophet.

00:14:57.94
Nathan Pile
but and And that's the first sentence. um It's very, it's bold. it It does um kind of ah catch you and draw you in to say, you're like, oh, let's see what else to, what else is going on here.

00:15:05.23
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:15:12.07
Nathan Pile
And then of course he goes on a diatribe of why the heck aren't you doing anything about this? um Which does, I think, set us up well. you I was surprised at my first reading of this, at the at both reading verse one, um those for four verses, and then chapter two, those four verses, um I was, I was, um, I was more hopeful at the end of reading those eight verses than I was at the beginning.

00:15:31.24
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:15:50.38
Nathan Pile
So um even though he starts off with what I kind of kind of um feel is a little bit of a um

00:16:02.05
Nathan Pile
lack, and it's not lackluster because it's kind of bold. It's kind of just saying, this is what I know from God.

00:16:10.58
Kevin Shock
Right, right, yeah.

00:16:12.69
Nathan Pile
and But I do, I, I do, I will say that when I got to the end of the first, well, the first time I read it, I was like, ah I do feel more hopeful a because, um but because my first responses, um sometimes to God right now in, in today's age is like, where the heck you at God?

00:16:40.26
Nathan Pile
Can you give us a little bit of help? Um, and, um, and that I, I too want to cry out and, um, and so,

00:16:53.77
Nathan Pile
hearing that and then also hearing God say there is a vision out there. It's coming. Um, it doesn't say be patient, but does still promise that it's, that it's not going to be, as you said, too late.

00:17:08.79
Nathan Pile
It'll, it will come in time.

00:17:11.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:17:12.90
Nathan Pile
So, um, so that's my first, um, my first, uh,

00:17:21.17
Nathan Pile
kind of two passes at this, both the, the, um the opening statement made me chuckle to myself and laugh. And then just a a general feeling of it's amazing how something can be written 3000 years ago and still

00:17:43.78
Nathan Pile
have its meaning.

00:17:43.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah. well

00:17:45.87
Nathan Pile
Not quite 3000,

00:17:47.94
Kevin Shock
Well, I'll but I'll be honest about something then. I, I told you that I was having trouble picking between um

00:17:55.81
Kevin Shock
the NRSVUE and CEB.

00:17:58.79
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:17:58.81
Kevin Shock
One reason I chose the CEB because I found myself when I read the NRSVUE automatically applying it too much to today.

00:18:11.56
Nathan Pile
oh

00:18:12.95
Kevin Shock
In the sense of like, I don't think, I don't think it's bad to sometimes apply, um,

00:18:20.26
Kevin Shock
yeah to find truth, to, to find truth in scripture that, you know, that was right. that Like you said, that was written 3000 years ago, but still like human nature is still the same.

00:18:31.74
Kevin Shock
And so we can find, we can, we we can learn about ourselves.

00:18:32.29
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:18:35.51
Nathan Pile
We do that every week. We do that every

00:18:37.92
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right. But but in the NRSVUE, chapter one, verse four says,

00:18:48.39
Kevin Shock
well, three and four. why Why do you make me see wrongdoing and look at trouble? Destruction and violence are before me. Strife and contention arise.

00:18:59.15
Kevin Shock
So the law becomes slack and justice never prevails. The wicked surround the righteous. Therefore judgment comes forth perverted.

00:19:11.38
Kevin Shock
I read those two verses and I was like, well, holy crap, this is, this is talking about our, our government right now and our current situation. And, and I mean, honestly, and.

00:19:27.41
Kevin Shock
And i like I have to reel myself in when I find myself doing that. And we may actually talk about this more later in the podcast. Because I have to remember that this was not written for our context.

00:19:44.00
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:19:45.08
Kevin Shock
Now, we can find similarities in it for sure. But I really, um I have always bristled whenever someone... from a different faith tradition, one that holds different values about the end times and things like that, does something like look at a book of Revelation and says, this person is the Antichrist, or this is exactly what Revelation was talking about. when i'm you know I'm like, no, ah John of Patmos wrote Revelation for his people back then.

00:20:17.37
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:20:17.67
Kevin Shock
he he did not He did not know who was going to be elected president or he did not know about this hurricane or or this wildfire. ah Yeah.

00:20:29.02
Kevin Shock
I mean, what we can do is we can look at Revelation and say, wow, the the some of the same political oppressions and social issues that were happening back in first century Palestine in the Roman Empire are still persisting today. We can absolutely do that.

00:20:47.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:20:47.51
Kevin Shock
but um But I get really, I get really itchy whenever someone says, well, this is what it's talking about. And i I don't want to be one of those people.

00:21:02.60
Kevin Shock
So I chose the CEB in order to distance myself a little bit from, from this episode becoming that.

00:21:14.17
Kevin Shock
i don't I don't worry about you doing that, but I worry about me doing that. Anyway, and one thing, honestly, looking at the CEB, one thing that kind of brought me back to reality is that in in ah in the NRSVUE, that verse four, chapter one, verse four, so the law becomes slack. Law is not capitalized there.

00:21:40.66
Kevin Shock
And so I immediately went to like, oh, like, like civic laws, like like the constitution.

00:21:44.32
Nathan Pile
Oh, sure.

00:21:48.53
Kevin Shock
um But in the CEB, the same word there is instruction, which is also a faithful translation of that word for law in Hebrew, and it's capitalized.

00:21:57.42
Nathan Pile
Yep.

00:22:00.04
Kevin Shock
So I'm thinking, oh, this could be talking about the law of God, not the laws of the land.

00:22:00.13
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:22:06.81
Kevin Shock
um The law is ineffective or becomes slack in training up the people to do what they are supposed to be doing.

00:22:17.88
Kevin Shock
So anyway, I also like the word warped better than perverted. I don't know why but ah it just in reference to justice for CEB.

00:22:28.05
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:22:28.85
Kevin Shock
Um, but yeah, so yeah.

00:22:28.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:22:31.66
Nathan Pile
i Again, I think the CEB is a good translation. You and I have talked about that quite a bit over the years.

00:22:37.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Wow.

00:22:38.11
Nathan Pile
and And it's why we bought 20 new Bibles to use for Bible study this summer.

00:22:44.28
Kevin Shock
Wow.

00:22:46.03
Nathan Pile
CEBs. So...

00:22:48.12
Kevin Shock
Well, and and your your discussion also made me want to look up bodacious because I thought I knew what that meant too. And bodacious does precisely mean, it's an informal word, it says, Merriam-Webster says, but it means excellent, admirable, or attractive.

00:23:07.50
Kevin Shock
But also in the United States, there's another informal use, and it means audacious in a way considered admirable.

00:23:16.14
Nathan Pile
Oh.

00:23:16.58
Kevin Shock
So you're spot on, buddy.

00:23:19.64
Nathan Pile
Boom.

00:23:22.82
Kevin Shock
But yes, in a way considered admirable, but I don't think that that's what the ah translators of the CEB or the prophet are getting at here.

00:23:28.53
Nathan Pile
Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:30.69
Kevin Shock
This is not a way considered admirable.

00:23:30.74
Nathan Pile
I'm going for. they're, they're not bodacious.

00:23:34.25
Kevin Shock
yeah No, the people that Habakkuk is talking about are not bodacious.

00:23:36.10
Nathan Pile
They are audacious.

00:23:40.61
Kevin Shock
They are audacious.

00:23:41.06
Nathan Pile
There.

00:23:41.93
Kevin Shock
They're yeah full of disrespect, but

00:23:42.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:23:46.47
Kevin Shock
In any case, any other thoughts about that or should we move on to the second reading?

00:23:50.12
Nathan Pile
No, I say we do it a second time.

00:23:52.41
Kevin Shock
All right. As Nathan said, and I, I got so wrapped up in the prophet's name that I forgot to mention what um what the verses were at the beginning of the podcast. um but So we're reading from Habakkuk chapter 1 verses 1 through 4 and chapter 2 verses 1 through 4.

00:24:13.41
Kevin Shock
Okay. Let me make sure I'm in the right. Yes. CEB. Okay.

00:24:17.03
Nathan Pile
back on the right translation.

00:24:18.49
Kevin Shock
I'm back on the right translation. The Oracle that Habakkuk the prophet saw Lord, how long will I call for help and you not listen? I cry out to you violence, but you don't deliver us.

00:24:30.88
Kevin Shock
Why do you show me injustice and look at anguish so that devastation and violence are before me? There is strife and conflict abounds.

00:24:42.42
Kevin Shock
The instruction is ineffective. Justice does not endure because the wicked surround the righteous. Justice becomes warped. I will take my post.

00:24:53.11
Kevin Shock
I will position myself on the fortress. I will keep watch to see what the Lord says to me and how he will respond to my complaint. Then the Lord answered me and said, write a vision and make it plain upon a tablet so that a runner can read it.

00:25:08.29
Kevin Shock
There is still a vision for the appointed time. It testifies to the end, it does not deceive.

00:25:15.78
Kevin Shock
if it delays wait for it for it is shortly coming, it will not be late. Some people's desires are truly audacious they don't do the right thing but the righteous person will live will live honestly. Nathan, toward what is god calling you in this text?

00:25:34.25
Nathan Pile
Um, well, I asked myself that question a couple of times here. Um, there's a portion of, well, there's not a portion of it.

00:25:45.89
Nathan Pile
We are to struggle to live as honestly as we can. So the first part of this, um

00:25:59.36
Nathan Pile
the first part of the, the, um, profits kind of complaining, um, or struggling is the word that I'm choosing to use.

00:26:11.08
Nathan Pile
Um, because it's not just complaining. It's, it's, it's, um, laments. It's, it's, um, uh, feeling like there's there's injustice in the system and not knowing how to fix it. So that struggling, we will endure struggling.

00:26:28.09
Nathan Pile
Because God's response isn't immediately, yes, I'm going to fix it.

00:26:36.21
Nathan Pile
God's response is that of,

00:26:43.32
Nathan Pile
it's coming, but it might take a while.

00:26:47.72
Nathan Pile
There might be a delay. There might be things that get in the way. um

00:26:53.51
Nathan Pile
And so we are to struggle to live honestly. Um, and whatever that looks like for us. And, and, um,

00:27:04.13
Nathan Pile
yeah, that would be, that would be my short answer.

00:27:10.60
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:27:13.74
Kevin Shock
Sometimes you have a longer answer.

00:27:15.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I do. So I was going short this time.

00:27:18.92
Kevin Shock
So there will always be struggle.

00:27:23.00
Kevin Shock
is that what I'm- Is that what I'm hearing from you?

00:27:24.13
Nathan Pile
Yeah, as ah as a part of the beginning, like I was trying to, because it's definitely two voices.

00:27:26.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:29.19
Nathan Pile
there It's the same voice. It's two responses two it's ah it's a first person's complaint and or or or lifting a concern and and then God's response.

00:27:31.74
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:27:40.54
Nathan Pile
And so um like the easiest thing that God would be, you know, the easiest thing to say is that God wants us to live honestly.

00:27:40.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:27:50.53
Nathan Pile
um but I ah But I don't, I don't not hear that, like that God didn't hear Habakkuk.

00:28:01.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:01.60
Nathan Pile
So Habakkuk, Habakkuk shares the struggle and out loud, names it out loud. And, and, and God's response isn't, yep, that's too bad. ah That's, that's a real shame.

00:28:17.07
Nathan Pile
Um, Habakkuk's response or God's response to Habakkuk is, um,

00:28:24.83
Nathan Pile
Like there's there's a vision coming of ah of a different way, um but you're going to have, you know, you, you're going to struggle with this.

00:28:35.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay.

00:28:35.44
Nathan Pile
Live, ah live as honestly as you can.

00:28:37.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:28:37.67
Nathan Pile
So that's the, that's the piece.

00:28:38.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:28:39.95
Nathan Pile
So it's, it's not that ah it's, it's um God's call is to live honestly. seek out um what it means to live in right relationship with with God and God's creation.

00:28:55.13
Nathan Pile
um but But there's still, ah I guess, it it doesn't feel completely unsympathetic or empathetic, maybe is the word, um ah in the response.

00:29:05.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yep.

00:29:08.18
Nathan Pile
Does that make sense?

00:29:09.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. There will always be suffering, but it's not that God doesn't care about that.

00:29:21.72
Kevin Shock
I, I mean, I don't think that's exactly what you're saying, but that's what I'm, that's what I'm taking away from some of the discussion that you've

00:29:28.82
Nathan Pile
Sure. part of A part of this, as again, it's hard for me not to, again, as you articulated, um this was written, you know, whatever, almost 3,000 years ago.

00:29:41.47
Nathan Pile
ah And so it's not written in our context, but there, again, as always, there's theres um human nature is the same. And so being able to to look at that, there's the piece of this

00:29:58.01
Nathan Pile
some of what I hear in this is that we're not quite ready to move to the new vision.

00:30:06.82
Nathan Pile
um ah um God sees that we're not quite ready to move in the new vision. um

00:30:14.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:30:16.02
Nathan Pile
And so,

00:30:21.06
Nathan Pile
and, and, and I think that's, that feels a little bit like our time right now. We're, we're, we still have some things that we have to do.

00:30:35.44
Nathan Pile
um

00:30:38.05
Nathan Pile
to be able to move to the next, I don't want to say level to level up, you know, that idea in a game where you're moving up.

00:30:42.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:30:44.95
Nathan Pile
um But I do think that for, for our communities to be stronger and there's still some things that we need to do to, I use the image a lot of times with our summer staff of, of a water barrel with different slats in the water barrel. And, and you can only put so as much water is in the shortest slat.

00:31:06.47
Nathan Pile
of those old water barrels. Um, meaning that if there's something about your program or something that's going on, that, um, it's only the, the, um,

00:31:08.89
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:31:19.82
Nathan Pile
the water barrel slat is only so long in one spot. Well, we either have to put in a new water or a new slot or a slat so that it makes it so we can fill up more water.

00:31:31.08
Nathan Pile
And so about programming wise, what that looks like it for us, like the same thing kind of feels true in this passage that God is not, God's not saying, Hey, you need to work on something.

00:31:45.93
Nathan Pile
God's saying, um there is a vision um and hold on to the hope that that it's going to be there in time.

00:32:00.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:03.31
Nathan Pile
So, what about you, my friend? What is what what is God calling you to in this passage?

00:32:10.50
Kevin Shock
Well, you have me, you have me thinking in new ways too, about, um, which this, I think this goes hand in hand with what I was, or this helps solidify my answer. Let me say that, um, about us not being ready for the new vision.

00:32:23.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:32:23.79
Kevin Shock
um I mean, I believe that too. I don't know. I don't know that I could necessarily, put, um, words to it. Um, although I was trying to think of that a little bit as you were talking, what makes us not ready for the new vision? Like, I, I think that everyone is ready to, ah kick back and enjoy all of the benefits that come from ah a world where God reigns.

00:32:48.63
Kevin Shock
Um, you know, that there's enduring peace, that everyone has enough to eat, that that um we are well tended to in our illnesses and and there's there's abundant healing.

00:33:05.63
Kevin Shock
um I don't know that we're ready to show grace with every other person or to to forgive as freely as we have been forgiven or to take the time to hear someone else's pain when we're in pain.

00:33:20.68
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:33:27.63
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, I don't know that we're ready for that. I don't know that I'm ready for that.

00:33:32.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:33:34.11
Kevin Shock
and I mean, and and and I'll and I'll speak for myself. there are Yeah, no, there are definitely, I'm, but one one thing about my understanding of my life of faith is that I'm fully prepared that there is going to be great culture shock whenever I meet God.

00:33:54.70
Kevin Shock
That um life as I know it now is not going to be life as I know it then. And it's going to be wonderful. And it's also going to take a lot of getting used to. um and And I think that that's that's partially the reason why some traditions have, um, I , I don't,

00:34:16.67
Kevin Shock
um I don't ascribe, and I don't understand it in full because I wasn't raised Roman Catholic, but you know there's the the idea of purgatory. ah And that's yeah that's the place that's the place where you go to pay off all your debts that you know we believe that Christ freely forgives anyway and before you can go to heaven.

00:34:38.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:34:38.77
Kevin Shock
um Just spend some time there, a couple of millennia. until you're ready, until your soul is ready to receive the kingdom in full.

00:34:46.32
Nathan Pile
Earning your way in. Yeah.

00:34:48.24
Kevin Shock
um who I don't, I don't don't believe it from that sense, but the idea of purgation, and it was it was actually Pastor Scott Custead years and years and years ago who who planted this idea in my head some somehow. I, I don't even know if it was he and I were talking one-on-one or this was a something I heard him say in a class or something like that.

00:35:11.46
Kevin Shock
But um the idea of purgation appeals to me. That there is, that my my body and soul have to go through a period of getting ready to receive the kingdom in full.

00:35:23.77
Kevin Shock
Because I can't receive it as I am now. and And that also helps me to understand why, for example, ah the Israelites could not see the face of God.

00:35:37.37
Kevin Shock
Because the wonder of it all would just would be such a shock to their system. They would die. It's, it's not, it's not that God is punishing them for looking for his face. It's that they can't handle it.

00:35:50.77
Kevin Shock
They can't handle it. And I don't know that I can handle the kingdom in full necessarily right now either. So, um, so what is God calling me toward?

00:36:01.84
Kevin Shock
God is calling me toward what is at in that first verse of chapter two. to take a post, to position myself on the fortress, and to keep watch to see what the Lord says to me and how he will respond to my complaint.

00:36:22.05
Kevin Shock
ah I think that, um and this might go into question three a little bit, so I'll keep it short, but I think in in trying times,

00:36:36.37
Kevin Shock
the call for me is to really hunker down in paying attention to what God is doing and what God is speaking and what God would have me say to other people.

00:36:58.85
Kevin Shock
ah Otherwise I worry, I just get distracted

00:37:04.32
Kevin Shock
by all, by all of the stuff that is mentioned there in that first chapter.

00:37:14.22
Kevin Shock
So

00:37:18.67
Kevin Shock
yeah, that's kind of, that's, that's my short answer.

00:37:20.84
Nathan Pile
No, it's good. Like you just have my head, you have my head um kind of spinning with that.

00:37:27.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I don't know what that means exactly, but I do think it means um being centered in prayer. I think it means reading scripture.

00:37:41.23
Kevin Shock
you know, all the stuff that we tell people they should be doing all the time anyway, and I'm not very good at doing it myself.

00:37:46.66
Nathan Pile
no

00:37:46.79
Kevin Shock
I also think it means being, um being rooted in Christian community.

00:37:51.64
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yeah.

00:37:54.01
Kevin Shock
I, I think my, um

00:37:58.67
Kevin Shock
I don't know, and in this time in the office of the bishop, I've spent a lot of time thinking, what do I want to do differently when I go back to the parish?

00:38:11.10
Kevin Shock
And some of that depends on which parish I would end up in. ah Because I think one thing I have to do is I have to pay attention to the needs of the people in whatever place I am.

00:38:24.28
Kevin Shock
um But I have been thinking a lot lately of a lament I have is the number of congregations that I go to.

00:38:36.23
Kevin Shock
And we come in, we worship, We barely say anything to one another and we're out the door again.

00:38:43.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:38:45.53
Kevin Shock
and And I have been a part of congregations in my life where you don't reserve an hour for church on Sunday morning. You reserve the whole morning because there might be learning to happen together.

00:39:00.46
Kevin Shock
they There may be fellowship and getting to know one another. um I don't think that, I don't think I've lifted that up enough because I think that that's vital to the life of a congregation. Like congregations are stronger when the people know one another well.

00:39:20.54
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:39:21.67
Kevin Shock
And, and not only are they stronger from a, they're going to last longer kind of sense. They're stronger from a, we know how to proclaim good news to the people around us sense.

00:39:34.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:39:36.48
Kevin Shock
Or at least we spend time talking about how we do that, which makes us better at it.

00:39:44.91
Nathan Pile
Well, and and how do we go?

00:39:49.79
Nathan Pile
It's funny when you, you named community here just a couple minutes ago because that and one of the things I was going to say earlier was like all of this has to happen in community.

00:40:03.38
Nathan Pile
Like that's...

00:40:04.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:40:05.08
Nathan Pile
that's behind God's model. The kingdom of God is intended for these kinds of, because it, again, it goes back to my um ministry happens at the speed of relationships and relationships happen at the speed of trust um kind of thing.

00:40:07.08
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:40:19.38
Nathan Pile
And so how do we in today's age? Yes, we can have connection and community that is done digitally or virtually. um But there's nothing that replaces getting to know each other one-on-one.

00:40:37.17
Nathan Pile
and And I agree with you that I see in congregations come to church and and we leave.

00:40:44.70
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:40:45.27
Nathan Pile
and And how do we

00:40:45.58
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:40:50.25
Nathan Pile
how do we pause that or stop it altogether um and and move to different a different habit?

00:41:03.60
Nathan Pile
Again, as you say, that we we spend time together. and and yeah Because as you were talking and reflecting, the I had all kinds of images to like, some you know, in a healthy,

00:41:19.22
Nathan Pile
um right way of living congregation. Somebody loses a spouse.

00:41:27.62
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:41:28.20
Nathan Pile
The rest of that community finds a way to

00:41:28.32
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:41:33.47
Nathan Pile
build up and support the individual that's lost their spouse. And it's more than how are you doing today at church as you're walking out of the building, but instead it's finding ways to, you know, do that for one another.

00:41:54.28
Nathan Pile
um You know, when my grandfather passed away many years ago now, one of the things our family was very particular with, it was how was, how are we going to help care for grandma?

00:42:06.86
Nathan Pile
Because she didn't drive.

00:42:09.17
Kevin Shock
Mm,

00:42:09.92
Nathan Pile
So we had to, we had to help her go get her driver's license and then get her a car because she didn't want to drive the big vehicles that grandpa drove.

00:42:09.95
Kevin Shock
wow

00:42:17.43
Nathan Pile
So um so all of those, like, those were all things about living with the person that, So that they could do that.

00:42:29.25
Nathan Pile
But in the meantime, because that was going to take months to do, right? So how she, she wasn't just going to sit at home. Well, we lucked out as a family member. Her sister had moved back to the area from Chicago about that time.

00:42:42.74
Nathan Pile
And Aunt, Aunt Mac loved to go. And so she had a car. And so she was always with Aunt Mac. They were going different places all of the time. it And so some of it happened organically. Some of it happened on purpose.

00:42:57.21
Nathan Pile
Um, like the brother saying to Aunt Mac and and to Aunt joy, Hey, if you guys are going someplace, maybe Ruth will go with you.

00:42:58.23
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:43:05.49
Kevin Shock
Yeah, take her along.

00:43:06.22
Nathan Pile
But yeah.

00:43:06.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:43:06.99
Nathan Pile
And so there was some intentional invitation at the beginning of it. But after that, it became Aunt Mac and Aunt Joy doing that until grandma got her own driver's license and then drove for many years after that.

00:43:17.94
Nathan Pile
Um, you know,

00:43:18.20
Kevin Shock
Oh, really? She ended up getting her driver's license?

00:43:20.22
Nathan Pile
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:21.61
Kevin Shock
Wow, huh?

00:43:22.18
Nathan Pile
Within eight, nine months, she had a driver's license and we traded in the van.

00:43:24.84
Kevin Shock
Interesting.

00:43:28.13
Nathan Pile
He had a big caravan that he used to drive around in and and we got her a little Honda Accord um that she liked to drive around in.

00:43:35.03
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:43:36.22
Nathan Pile
So like those kinds of things.

00:43:37.08
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:43:40.48
Nathan Pile
Um, like, but that would be like, we would take that not just in my family, but that would be what a community does. What are the, what are the real needs of the person who has lost somebody and how can we as a community come in and, and be a part of building that person up and helping them.

00:44:01.67
Nathan Pile
move on, you know, go to things.

00:44:01.87
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:44:03.27
Nathan Pile
Like we, all of the brothers were very intentional. So grandma had four sons. All of the brothers were very intentional about making sure grandma went to things. So if there were grandkids, they swing, they would swing by and pick her up and take her to ah whatever the grandkids were doing.

00:44:13.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:44:21.07
Nathan Pile
or Or like Uncle Mark lived far away.

00:44:22.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:25.78
Nathan Pile
And so he would come down and get grandma twice a year and she would go and live with him for a week.

00:44:30.44
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

00:44:31.20
Nathan Pile
so that she could be around his family, which was on the other side of the state. so like But again, all of those things were intentional.

00:44:35.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure.

00:44:39.36
Nathan Pile
like And so intentionally being community is what teaches us God's kingdom and I think is what takes time, right?

00:44:49.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:49.62
Nathan Pile
God god knows it's going to take time to do all of the things that you named a little bit ago, all of those really big, hard things that We're getting better at them, but we're not.

00:45:05.37
Nathan Pile
We haven't achieved it.

00:45:07.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:45:07.24
Nathan Pile
We're not there.

00:45:09.16
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:45:10.06
Nathan Pile
So.

00:45:11.26
Kevin Shock
Well, I, and I really, I'm grateful for your, um, your analogy there, because I think we can look at that. And, and this was, uh, maybe we even talked about that. Maybe I talked about this on the last episode.

00:45:26.08
Kevin Shock
This is something like what you described there, the way that your family rallied around your grandmother, that

00:45:31.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:45:32.83
Kevin Shock
that makes a lot of sense in our world in the context of a family. Now it doesn't always happen, but, but your, your family is a family that, you know, highly values family.

00:45:39.44
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:45:43.57
Kevin Shock
And so, um yeah, so that makes a whole lot of sense.

00:45:44.32
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:45:48.28
Kevin Shock
The thing about church and the thing about God's kingdom is that that model extends beyond just our blood family, because we're talking about people who may not have their own family.

00:45:57.06
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:46:03.54
Kevin Shock
And we're talking about people who um we might not have automatically the same kind of commitment level toward that we might with our own blood relatives.

00:46:16.76
Kevin Shock
But God's call is for us to live as your family lived around your grandmother for all people, all the people in our community.

00:46:22.60
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:46:27.46
Kevin Shock
And and so can, you know, can... It's hard for us to imagine in this world as it is right now, for us to rally around someone who is basically a stranger like that, but might be a person who is in need in our in our church community, in the family of God.

00:46:52.37
Kevin Shock
and And so I, like that's that's one way I think we're not ready. I think we have... I think we have hope that we can move toward that. And I think in some ways, like you said, in some ways we have gotten better at it.

00:47:05.49
Kevin Shock
but But that's a big leap because what you describe happening in your family meant that people had to alter their everyday activities.

00:47:21.87
Kevin Shock
People had to adjust how they lived.

00:47:24.76
Nathan Pile
sure

00:47:25.48
Kevin Shock
they had to They had to, in some way, go out of their own way even if it was for a beloved family member, go out of their own way to include someone else or to provide for someone else or to help someone else.

00:47:37.90
Kevin Shock
And our world does not see that as a sustainable way to operate.

00:47:45.82
Kevin Shock
But in God's reality, it is the most sustainable way to operate. And I think we, I think we could make it work in our world too, if only we were able to get out of our own ways for a little bit, a lot bit, the the for eternity.

00:48:06.05
Nathan Pile
a lot bit. I agree it would have we'd have to do it for a long time

00:48:10.52
Kevin Shock
oh Yeah. I feel like, Nathan, I feel like we've wandered into the third question.

00:48:12.62
Nathan Pile
uh we have yeah I was just gonna do the same thing so why don't we read a third time and

00:48:18.09
Kevin Shock
yeah let's Yeah, let's look at that. Yeah.

00:48:25.54
Nathan Pile
The oracle that Habakkuk the prophet saw. Lord, how long will I call for help and you not listen? I cry out to you, violence, but you don't deliver us.

00:48:37.59
Nathan Pile
Why do you show me injustice and look at anguish so that devastation and violence are before me? There is strife and conflict abounds.

00:48:48.82
Nathan Pile
The instruction is ineffective. Justice does not endure because the wicked surround the righteous. Justice becomes warped. I will take my post.

00:49:00.62
Nathan Pile
I will position myself on the fortress. I will keep watch to see what the Lord says to me and how he will respond to my complaint.

00:49:11.98
Nathan Pile
Then the Lord answered me and said, Write a vision and make it plain upon a tablet so that a runner can read it. There is still a vision for the appointed time.

00:49:23.59
Nathan Pile
It testifies to the end. It does not deceive. If it delays, wait for it. For it is surely coming. It will not be late. Some people's desires are truly audacious.

00:49:36.93
Nathan Pile
They don't do the right thing. But the righteous person will live honestly.

00:49:48.55
Nathan Pile
That third question, Ke- Kevin, is how do you live righteously in unjust times?

00:49:56.14
Kevin Shock
Well, I think we've talked around it already, but I ah two things. One related to my answer to the second question. I think um I think I have to maintain a focus and a center on God um to do that.

00:50:12.86
Kevin Shock
if i'm If I want to live righteously, I have to look to the righteous one to do it.

00:50:18.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:50:18.33
Kevin Shock
And... um

00:50:19.75
Nathan Pile
We need the source.

00:50:21.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah, we need the source. Right. Right. Because I, and this my own experiences, if I start to speak out against injustice. If I, if I go.

00:50:35.45
Kevin Shock
if I give myself permission to step away from my own needs and advocate for someone else or for something else. um, it's easy for me to lose my center because I either fear, although it's normally not fear or anger wells up within me.

00:51:01.95
Kevin Shock
And, and people can be angry while they're being righteous, but, um, when I get angry, it's easy for me to lose sight of the very reason why I'm doing seeking justice.

00:51:17.02
Kevin Shock
And that is to bear witness to God's justice. Um, I mean, it is, it is for the sake of the people that I would be serving, but, but it's also as a witness to what God's reality is.

00:51:36.63
Kevin Shock
if, if I, if I'm, seeking justice or seeking to act righteously for my own purposes, then I just become self-righteous and I'm not very effective and I'm not very, um, and I'm certainly not at peace when I'm acting self-righteously.

00:51:58.83
Kevin Shock
I can say that for myself. I, I know myself and that's the truth.

00:52:07.45
Kevin Shock
Um, The other thing is that, um, I, I do think that um part of acting righteously in unjust times is to seek justice.

00:52:22.08
Kevin Shock
and And maybe it the thing that I have been struggling a little bit with lately is that overwhelming feeling of like, how do we fix the big, big problems?

00:52:36.95
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:52:37.09
Kevin Shock
And not even not even the, not not like you say, not the God-size problems, but just the really big all of humanity problems or even all of our nation problems.

00:52:49.67
Kevin Shock
um

00:52:53.02
Kevin Shock
It's easy to get focused and get down about those, get focused on and get down about those when there are opportunities for us to live, to seek justice in our communities.

00:53:07.85
Kevin Shock
and to live righteously there. And that's a, that's a start. It's not the end, but it's a start. For me, it's something that helps me to get over the paralysis of not feeling like I can do anything.

00:53:22.38
Kevin Shock
um But you did use.

00:53:23.61
Nathan Pile
Right, because local is where we can put it our in it we can put it in action

00:53:26.83
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right. Yeah. um Yeah, I do. I do want to say, though, just in reference to this question and and the things I've said, Something you, one of the verses when you read it this third time, oh, just grabbed me.

00:53:43.23
Kevin Shock
And that is,

00:53:46.07
Kevin Shock
ah verse two, Lord, how long will I call for help and you not listen? I cry out to you violence, but you don't deliver us. And ah my, my mind, because of recent current events and because of discussions I've had recently immediately went to the gun problem in the United States.

00:54:07.45
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:54:08.03
Kevin Shock
and And when I think, when I think, why has God not delivered us? I immediately think, or the voice comes to me, what has God withheld from us that prevents us from delivering ourselves? Nothing.

00:54:28.00
Kevin Shock
this is This is a human-sized problem.

00:54:32.13
Nathan Pile
sure

00:54:32.28
Kevin Shock
it's It's a huge, huge problem that requires control. some unity of thought and purpose, but God is not causing this problem.

00:54:47.31
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:54:50.14
Kevin Shock
And God has not withheld anything of us to prevent us from delivering ourselves from this problem either. So anyway, that's a, that's kind of a rough, that was a rough thing to hear, but, but it's true.

00:55:04.25
Kevin Shock
It's true. Sometimes we cry out for God to deliver us whenever we

00:55:12.01
Nathan Pile
We have to do the hard work.

00:55:13.59
Kevin Shock
right whenever we don't know how to or don't want to do the hard work.

00:55:19.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:55:19.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:55:20.68
Nathan Pile
We want somebody to deliver us.

00:55:21.08
Kevin Shock
All right. what Yeah, right. You come and deliver us so we don't have to do any work ourselves. yeah

00:55:26.73
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:55:27.92
Kevin Shock
um What about you, Nathan? How do you live righteously in unjust times?

00:55:32.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah. You've already kind of articulated it for me, which is um is that idea that, that I, I'm not the source.

00:55:43.61
Nathan Pile
I have to seek guidance from the source.

00:55:44.94
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:55:50.20
Nathan Pile
um of right living and so um of righteousness and and being in the way. And so um again, I, I, our conversation makes me more hopeful than I was at the beginning of this.

00:56:08.63
Nathan Pile
I don't know why, because there's no real answers to this. um to the, as you said, the big problems that are out there for us, like there's work out there for us as God's people to do.

00:56:21.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:56:22.17
Nathan Pile
um I think what this makes me, reminds me is that I'm not alone in doing that.

00:56:28.28
Kevin Shock
Correct.

00:56:28.66
Nathan Pile
a the source is there. God um is present um and and is alongside, but also the reminder of what we've talked about, this idea of community.

00:56:40.33
Nathan Pile
How do we as community work? um

00:56:46.41
Nathan Pile
engage these human-sized problems. um And that it goes back to to that core piece of, well, we have to form community.

00:57:00.09
Nathan Pile
We have to be in a trusted community where we together then can move towards seeking justice, Um, you know, one of the, one of the questions I have is like, there's not a lot around this immigration stuff that I feel like I have any power over, um, today, but one of the things that I did recently was reached out to a friend, um, who's a local attorney and just said, Hey, what's going on locally about

00:57:18.88
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:57:33.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:57:34.94
Nathan Pile
this kind of stuff?

00:57:36.60
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:57:37.30
Nathan Pile
um And her response was just to, but she said, well, I'm going to put you on my list. um Like we already have some safe houses in place and stuff like that. And so like, that's the stuff that I can't,

00:57:48.84
Nathan Pile
um

00:57:53.87
Nathan Pile
I can't force um um a government official to do anything I don't, that they don't want to do. I can't do that.

00:58:02.47
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:58:02.98
Nathan Pile
um But I can live differently. um I can live more in tune with my heart and whatever that looks like. And so, yes, I can.

00:58:14.15
Nathan Pile
um I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't, I have a lot of distrust in that people who are in government offices right now are um at least big national offices.

00:58:30.57
Nathan Pile
um So Senate, House of Representatives, president, all of those places seem like they're being influenced by, by outside influences more so than they are listening to their people, the the people that they represent.

00:58:45.53
Kevin Shock
Sure, absolutely. Right.

00:58:47.60
Nathan Pile
Um, at least it feels that way. So, um, and I don't have a lot of money that I can throw at them so that they listen to me more. Um,

00:58:57.04
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:58:57.53
Nathan Pile
so my focus instead is how can I help locally do that? And so I I'm just the beginning of that process, but, but that to me makes, uh, seems like a better use of my time being a good steward of my time than it is to go and sit at my local representative's office until I get a chance to talk to them and tell them how I feel.

00:59:22.89
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:59:24.81
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:59:25.10
Nathan Pile
but like But thinking about this in in that community piece, what does it look like to form community around that?

00:59:26.31
Kevin Shock
hmm.

00:59:31.66
Nathan Pile
um to To be able to care for my neighbor who might need um some sometime, some type of local community support.

00:59:44.70
Nathan Pile
And they're not, um and when I think about this, when I'm thinking about the community, at least here in Somerset County, our biggest population would be Latinos. um

00:59:57.79
Nathan Pile
Like I don't have a lot of personal friendships or relationships with them, but I, but I have some. And so I've tried to ask those that I am connected to, you know, what is it that you need, but also seeking other people within the County that, that,

01:00:14.92
Nathan Pile
are seeking to protect our neighbors, that feels like something I can do. So that's working towards justice in its own way. doesn't mean that we don't have to change the bigger system. We do.

01:00:27.38
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. um I just feel powerless right now about what that even would look like. So I'm going to do what I can, which is more locally based.

01:00:38.39
Nathan Pile
So then we'll go from there.

01:00:39.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:00:40.75
Nathan Pile
So

01:00:41.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah. it doesn't It doesn't mean that the other stuff isn't needed and there might be people who have gifts for doing that kind of stuff too, but but I do think we have to be honest about what what am I called to do

01:00:47.37
Nathan Pile
sure

01:00:51.75
Kevin Shock
And, and where do I fit into the big, the big puzzle of it all and, and where can, where can I work for justice?

01:00:52.25
Nathan Pile
Right.

01:00:56.86
Nathan Pile
Right.

01:00:59.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:00:59.64
Nathan Pile
Right. Where can I work for justice?

01:01:00.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:01:01.50
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:01:01.89
Kevin Shock
yeah

01:01:01.98
Nathan Pile
That, that for what feels and authentic to me, like it feels like I can be, be who God has made me to be.

01:01:06.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah. right Right.

01:01:10.37
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

01:01:11.08
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

01:01:12.05
Kevin Shock
Cause I know people who their call is to go and sit in their us representatives office and wait and wait to talk to them.

01:01:17.51
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. Absolutely.

01:01:20.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that's, that's, ah that's right.

01:01:23.49
Nathan Pile
And I'm thankful that we have those individuals also.

01:01:26.22
Kevin Shock
Me too. Yeah. Yeah. But right. Recognizing that not everyone feels that way. Not everyone feels that call. Yep.

01:01:33.49
Nathan Pile
Right.

01:01:34.22
Kevin Shock
Yep.

01:01:35.10
Nathan Pile
So, but I'm in a place where I feel like creating safe space is something I can do.

01:01:37.20
Kevin Shock
Yep. um

01:01:42.58
Nathan Pile
So, so, yeah.

01:01:42.72
Kevin Shock
yep yep yeah well thanks for sharing that and I, and I think that we probably could talk a lot more about

01:01:49.94
Nathan Pile
Go on and on and on, right.

01:01:51.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah, about this kind of stuff. But this is, you know, this is these are some simple verses from eight verses from a from a mine, quote unquote, minor prophet. Again, minor doesn't mean unimportant, just short.

01:02:03.94
Kevin Shock
um That, ah yeah, that can spark all this kind of conversation. And the the thing about the minor prophets, at least several of them, Amos.

01:02:17.04
Kevin Shock
Who else am I missing, Nathan? Amos, Habakkuk.

01:02:20.70
Nathan Pile
I'm not sure what you're you want to know who they are Obadiah.

01:02:23.21
Kevin Shock
Hosea, no, no, no not no, not who they are. but But there's a common theme in several of the minor prophets of the nation, which of course here means Israel Judah, um the nation not following God and therefore falling into injustice.

01:02:35.63
Nathan Pile
Right.

01:02:43.21
Nathan Pile
Oh, sure.

01:02:44.70
Kevin Shock
and And injustice, um the disregard for people on the margins, um the love of money and the marketplace um causing issues.

01:03:01.67
Kevin Shock
that's That's a common theme in several minor prophets.

01:03:01.71
Nathan Pile
and

01:03:05.39
Nathan Pile
They have those minor profits. Yeah.

01:03:07.40
Kevin Shock
And it's a common theme in our world today.

01:03:11.86
Nathan Pile
It is.

01:03:13.85
Kevin Shock
I, I, ah don't, I'm not going to say anybody's name, but high ranking the highest ranking government official, sorry, I choked a little bit there. ah just Just this past week as we're recording this, so like the, so around Labor Day, um intimated that Labor Day was useless because we lost so much on commerce during that day.

01:03:41.86
Kevin Shock
And that and and and made comments that leaned toward people shouldn't have a day off. because we get better the harder we work.

01:03:53.31
Kevin Shock
And I have, I don't think I've ever heard anything more blatantly unbiblical come. I mean, and and and I'm not saying, I'm not saying unholy.

01:04:04.30
Kevin Shock
I've heard, I've heard plenty of but you have elected officials say stuff that's unholy, but Sabbath and rest is a central part of Hebrew scripture.

01:04:15.16
Nathan Pile
Yeah

01:04:16.20
Kevin Shock
it's It's central not only to individuals, it's central to the community, it's central to the economic system, it's central to ah how we grow crops, it's ah it's central to the entire life ah of the of the nation, of God's people.

01:04:34.22
Kevin Shock
And now we have a leader who's saying it's worthless.

01:04:41.44
Kevin Shock
My, My self-righteous anger Boiled when I heard that. But. We don't have to do everything our leader says.

01:04:53.04
Nathan Pile
Right.

01:04:53.50
Kevin Shock
Thank God. And um yeah. And we can seek justice in unjust times. So a couple of other things to consider. If Habakkuk isn't enough for you.

01:05:05.61
Kevin Shock
um The psalm. Our additional text. The psalm for this week. Am looking at the right one? Yeah. Psalm 37 1 through 9. thirty seven one through nine Commit your way to the Lord. Put your trust in the Lord.

01:05:18.33
Kevin Shock
ah From 2 Timothy 1, verses 1-14, guard the treasure entrusted to you. And that treasure is faith and love in Christ. From Luke 17, 5-10, we hear about Jesus talk to his disciples about faith the size of a mustard seed and what that can do.

01:05:37.26
Kevin Shock
So there there you go, Nathan. That might be a helpful thing to read too, but when we feel hopeless and helpless.

01:05:38.64
Nathan Pile
There we go.

01:05:41.23
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:05:43.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:05:43.69
Kevin Shock
ah The, our semi-continuous text, the large pieces of um Hebrew scripture, Lamentations chapter one, verses one through six, Jerusalem is empty and destroyed. And then ah the companion text to that, which is actually recommended as a psalm or a psalmody is Lamentations three, verses 19 through 26, where that says great is your faithfulness, O Lord, ah in the face of Jerusalem being empty and destroyed.

01:06:11.62
Kevin Shock
And then there's an alternate Psalm, Psalm 137, remember the day of Jerusalem, O Lord. Nathan, I appreciate your reflections as always. And ah friends, if you have reflections, please, please, please share them with us.

01:06:25.20
Kevin Shock
And we love to read what you have to say and lift them up on air, on air, on the podcast, broadcasting now from, anyway.

01:06:34.49
Nathan Pile
Radio City.

01:06:34.85
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah. So friends, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:06:41.58
Nathan Pile
And peace.