Episode 54: Ephesians 1:11-23

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What do you witness God’s power doing?

Additional texts:

Daniel 7:1-3, 15-18

Psalm 149

Luke 6:20-31

Transcript

00:00:03.90
Nathan Pile
You're up.

00:00:04.36
Kevin Shock
oh boy all right yeah no I know I'm up we're already laughing because Nathan and I told we're talking about how this needs to be a quick podcast because we spent too much time catching up with each other and I said just before we started recording yeah it's not going to happen so I have to be on my other meeting in 46 minutes I again I don't think it's going to happen but we'll we'll see how it goes

00:00:04.42
Nathan Pile
You're up. You're

00:00:30.05
Kevin Shock
All right, friends, good to be with you today. um where Nathan and I, I think, are pretty excited about talking about scripture.

00:00:33.71
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

00:00:36.75
Kevin Shock
I'm not even sure that he knows what we're talking about yet, but we we're excited about it. um And just right off the bat, I want to thank ah people for writing in to us um some... ah some really, um, uh, for your affirmations, uh, Sherry, thank you for that.

00:00:55.69
Kevin Shock
Um, I'm glad you're doing your homework and affirming people in their gifts and, and hopefully it's not just the two of us. Um, and, uh, Sam, we're, uh, we're awaiting another email on the podcast, not to shame you into writing it, but, uh, thank you for your affirmations as well, uh, for, for both of us and, um, and Susan, um,

00:01:08.25
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:01:18.48
Kevin Shock
I, I hear your weariness in your email. and And thank you for being one of those people who's willing to sit in their representative's office. As Nathan and I said a few podcasts ago, we're not willing to do.

00:01:29.62
Kevin Shock
um Looking for ways that we can make a difference.

00:01:29.73
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:01:31.86
Kevin Shock
Thank you for being one of those people and for doing that work. And I hear your weariness. And I'm hoping that this podcast will give you some more hope.

00:01:42.92
Kevin Shock
that this ah That this scripture will...

00:01:43.05
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:01:46.43
Kevin Shock
will speak to speak to that that work you're and doing because it is important. And I don't say that so that you keep doing it. It's important. And Nathan and I were just having a long conversation about how there are days when we see ah the fruits of the long game.

00:02:02.97
Kevin Shock
And those days are way too few. But on the days that you see it, um you can trust that, that god is God is working through through the work that we do, ah even if we can't see it right in front of us.

00:02:19.30
Kevin Shock
So, so we affirm your work, Susan, and thank you for your, your faithfulness in the work that you do today.

00:02:26.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah. And Susan, another thing of hopefulness is um I spoke to Kirby ah the other week and he's listening to the podcast.

00:02:28.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:02:36.47
Nathan Pile
I don't know if he's listening intentionally or if he's just doing it because you're listening to it. I think that's a sign of hope right there. So I celebrate that. Hi, Kirby, if you're listening.

00:02:46.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Great.

00:02:48.97
Nathan Pile
but

00:02:50.58
Kevin Shock
Good. Kirby, Kirby you'll, if you're listening, you'll have a lot more fodder to give Nathan crap about. And me too, when you see me. So, yeah. All right, friends. Today, today we're looking at ah Paul's letter to the Ephesians, the first chapter, verses 11 through 23.

00:03:07.87
Kevin Shock
We're reading from the Common English Bible. And the three questions we're looking at today.

00:03:13.37
Kevin Shock
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? toward what is God calling you in this text, and what do you witness God's power doing

00:03:23.47
Nathan Pile
Some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in our middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

00:03:36.32
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read in scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

00:03:52.93
Nathan Pile
So we want to know what you hear and think from your experience.

00:03:59.52
Nathan Pile
Ephesians chapter 1.

00:04:06.34
Nathan Pile
We have... we have also received an inheritance in Christ.

00:04:14.64
Nathan Pile
We were destined by the plan of God, who accomplishes everything according to his design. We are called to be an honor to God's glory because we were the first to hope in Christ.

00:04:28.79
Nathan Pile
You too heard the word of truth in Christ, which is the good news of your salvation. You were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit you believed Christ.

00:04:39.95
Nathan Pile
because you believed in christ The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God's own people, resulting in the honor of God's glory.

00:04:53.65
Nathan Pile
Since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God's people, this is the reason that I don't stop giving thanks to God for you when I remember you in my prayers.

00:05:07.56
Nathan Pile
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, will give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation that makes God known to you.

00:05:18.95
Nathan Pile
I pray that the eyes of your heart will have enough light to see what is the hope of God's call, what is the richness richness of God's glorious inheritance among believers, and what is the overwhelming greatness of God's power that is working among us believers.

00:05:37.70
Nathan Pile
This power is conferred by the energy of God's powerful strength. God's power was at work in Christ when God raised him from the dead and sat him at God's right side in the heavens.

00:05:51.92
Nathan Pile
Far above every ruler and authority and power and angelic power, any power that might be named not only now but in the future. God put everything under Christ's feet and made him head of everything in the church, which is says his body.

00:06:09.11
Nathan Pile
His body, the church, is the fullness of Christ, who fills everything in every way.

00:06:18.85
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Kevin shares his reflection on what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text.

00:06:33.19
Kevin Shock
There's, I didn't, not until you were reading it out loud that I realized that this is Paul's letter in the sense that, in the sense that, man, it just rambles. It just rambles.

00:06:44.44
Kevin Shock
um But, ah but I mean, part of the reason I chose this is because there are like in, like in every Pauline letter, if you're listening to it, really listening to it, it has, boy, it has some nuggets in it that are just, you know, like mind blowing, life changing stuff.

00:07:02.76
Kevin Shock
So there are a couple of things, but i'm I'm going to stick with the first thing I heard, um which isn't what drew me in ah first, but hearing you read it gave me a different perspective on it.

00:07:03.55
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Hmm.

00:07:13.07
Kevin Shock
And it's that it's the second half of that first verse. We were destined by the plan of God who accomplishes everything according to his design. And i think this is also fed by the conversation you and I had leading into this podcast, Nathan, about the the long game.

00:07:30.00
Kevin Shock
um it's so easy to look around the world and say things like, why does God, why is God allowing this to happen? If, if God is at work, why earth why do things seem to be headed in this direction?

00:07:43.17
Kevin Shock
And um I really think, ah you know, throughout the years, I've come to terms with the fact that human beings have a lot of power to mess things up.

00:07:44.90
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:07:55.06
Kevin Shock
And, um and, and God is, don't use a lot of football, ah, metaphors, but God is constantly calling audibles to get us back on track.

00:08:09.17
Kevin Shock
We've talked about that before in this podcast, how, how it happens in scripture. And um and you know there there are ways that human beings can royally mess things up that God has to shift forward.

00:08:23.36
Kevin Shock
what, what the, what the plan or the design is, but, but the, but the plan and the design always point to the complete and total salvation of the entire universe and, and the reconciling of all people and all things to God.

00:08:39.68
Kevin Shock
And, um, and I, I think that we're, I, I feel, I trust that we're headed in that direction. And on the days that, um,

00:08:51.60
Kevin Shock
on the days when I get bogged down by all of the messes that human beings, myself included, make, um I hope it will be helpful for me to remember that there is a long game and that um there are there are things that have happened in the past that you know I've started to see resolution to and healing from. so i know that I know that that exists. I know that, I know that God is continually and constantly working on us and working on this creation to lead us to that end goal of complete salvation and complete reconciliation.

00:09:43.56
Kevin Shock
um There are going to be a lot of roadblocks and bumps along the way. Like there have been since the beginning of time. But, um, but with God's with God in control, we're going we're going to get there.

00:09:58.17
Kevin Shock
We're all going to get there.

00:10:00.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:10:01.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah. ah what about you? What word phrase or image?

00:10:07.89
Nathan Pile
Um, I, to be honest, there was two of them and they were both in that first paragraph. Um, uh, the first thing that kind of got my head, um, as I was reading it, uh, first, uh, we, we were the first to hope in Christ.

00:10:27.33
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:10:29.95
Nathan Pile
And it took me back to a conversation I had um in seminary with a professor. um

00:10:38.45
Kevin Shock
so many years ago.

00:10:39.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. It was a while ago. But I'm still 49 today, Kevin. Still 49. mine to hold on Yeah. but I'm still forty nine today, Kevin, still forty nine

00:10:48.65
Kevin Shock
You are.

00:10:49.05
Nathan Pile
um

00:10:50.02
Kevin Shock
You are.

00:10:50.72
Nathan Pile
so

00:10:51.01
Kevin Shock
For another month and a half.

00:10:55.54
Nathan Pile
still mind to hold on

00:10:56.05
Kevin Shock
I don't know if my microphone picked that up for for another month and a half.

00:10:59.23
Nathan Pile
You weren't sure he had to say it twice, huh? No, but the the we were talking about, um it was the I was debating him because I was you know young seminary student and was trying to say, well, you know does it really matter that I'm a Christian now? Maybe I'll just go do whatever I want for the rest of my life. And then right before I, you know, I'll pull a Constantinople and a Constantine.

00:11:26.87
Nathan Pile
and just say on my deathbed, you know, Oh, okay. I believe in God now. Um, was kind of our, our argument tug of war back and forth. Um, and, and, um, I don't remember exactly how he put it, but the gist of the gist of his, his side of the argument is that you you've, you've already been called to it, Nathan.

00:11:52.74
Nathan Pile
Um, you're, you're, so you know, you're standing in seminary, uh,

00:11:58.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:11:58.74
Nathan Pile
So, you know, but but it was this idea that that um those of us that have grown up in the faith, that, that our, our, that faith has been a part of our lives, that

00:11:59.53
Kevin Shock
ah yeah

00:12:15.71
Nathan Pile
it it it is the the blessing that you, the second part of this is that the, the down payment here is the Holy spirit, right? That's what the second, the other thing that kind of lurched me back out of my, my vortex, my thought vortex of, of where this, was where I was at with this conversation with my professor um was that we, we have this gift of the Holy spirit and, and,

00:12:40.72
Nathan Pile
God's given us this gift, but there is this, the, this call to use that gift of, of the Holy spirit also then in, in our lives. And so this idea of being, um, some of the first to hope the first part of that sentence is, but we're to be an honor, and that we're to honor God's glory and in what God has done. And so God's giving us this gift of the Holy spirit means that there's, um, um,

00:13:11.35
Nathan Pile
a part of of who we are becomes a part of this gift of the Holy Spirit, this gift of of being the first. um and And that in that, that our our hope in Christ is...

00:13:33.81
Nathan Pile
is powerful because it's got this gift of the Holy spirit with it. Right. And so the, there, there's this, um, there's this tug toward, toward God in, in, in what we do because of God's gift of the Holy spirit to us.

00:13:50.44
Nathan Pile
Um, God has given us this gift of the Holy spirit.

00:13:50.67
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:13:52.98
Nathan Pile
It is, it is, it is a gift. We didn't earn it. We did. God gave it to us freely. Um, but with this gift, um, You know, it's it's it's like the somebody gifting a ah somebody that has a bunch of land.

00:14:12.91
Nathan Pile
Hey, I see you have a bunch of land. Here, I'm gifting you a plow. um And then the person says, well, thanks, but I'm never going to use it. You know, there's, there's a sense of you already have the land. Now you have this gift of a plow, but you could, you could grow things for yourself. You could grow things for others.

00:14:35.10
Nathan Pile
um There, there's, there's a place of, of, um we can make the world a better because of these gifts that have been given to us.

00:14:45.82
Nathan Pile
And so this gift of the Holy Spirit and and and and in many ways, I would say even our hope, you know you thanked Susan earlier, but you kno- her, her persistence in showing up in the office of our elected leaders, there's a hope that there's going to be

00:14:47.12
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:15:09.08
Nathan Pile
the the the seed will be planted, um you know, to get, ah to go back to other scriptural, you know, that, that she keeps showing up at the judges, at the judge's door until she gets justice.

00:15:20.95
Nathan Pile
Um, kind of a image.

00:15:23.22
Kevin Shock
yeah to Yeah, to paraphrase that parable, sure.

00:15:23.25
Nathan Pile
And so terrible. Right.

00:15:26.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:15:27.06
Nathan Pile
And so that idea of out of comes hope.

00:15:27.52
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

00:15:31.66
Nathan Pile
comes hope um And again, those are gifts from God that we have.

00:15:36.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:15:37.89
Nathan Pile
But if we have them at the beginning, then as Christensen said to me that day, standing in the street, um but you have you know if you have the things to to make the world a better place, God's calling us to make the world a better place.

00:15:58.22
Nathan Pile
If, if they've been, if the gifts have been given for you to plant and and grow a garden so others can eat, then it's time to plant the garden. Um, and, and, and from that, your hope in planting the seeds becomes hope for others.

00:16:15.74
Nathan Pile
They'll eat hope, um, in that image. And so, um, so it was just the, that phrase of, um, the first to hope and that idea of the Holy spirit as is already given as a down payment for our inheritance given to us.

00:16:33.85
Nathan Pile
Um, like God's gifted us. And, and the, the hard part of those gifts are they're not a plow and they're not seeds. They're things that we can't see.

00:16:46.77
Nathan Pile
Hope and Holy Spirit are not necessarily things that they take on human characteristics because we as humans take them on. But the Holy Spirit and and hope are not things that we necessarily tangibly oh here's a here's a box of hope and oh here's the box of the holy spirit that's not the way either of those things function um they function in in us through us with us um kind of a thing so that those those would be my that's my initial thought on this passage

00:17:18.76
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:17:25.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think, um I mean, that's that's helpful to hear um because i what you what your illustration

00:17:37.89
Kevin Shock
what you illustrate for us is that being a Christian is not a binary thing. It's not a switch you turn on and off.

00:17:46.25
Nathan Pile
no

00:17:47.03
Kevin Shock
It's, it's an identity that's been given to you. It's a call that's been given to you. It's a gift that's been given to you. I appreciate that you use that language because sometimes a call can feel more like a burden than a gift, but it is a gift.

00:18:00.77
Kevin Shock
there's, there's even, even if it calls you into hard work, even it calls if it calls you into frustrating work, there like you said, there's that that work is born out of hope.

00:18:11.79
Kevin Shock
I mean, you don't go and keep knocking on the judge's chambers. if there's not some at least small sense of hope that it will, it will have an effect.

00:18:24.04
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:18:25.22
Kevin Shock
And, um and I think, I think there, there's a, that's another way that Jesus illustrates the having a faith of a mustard seed.

00:18:35.61
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:18:36.08
Kevin Shock
um

00:18:38.82
Kevin Shock
It's just, it's just the, it's, it's such a, it's the smallest kernel of hope or trust. that we we can't even perceive it. But obviously it's it's bearing fruit in some way.

00:18:51.08
Kevin Shock
it's It's working its way out of us in our actions and our speech.

00:18:54.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:18:56.47
Kevin Shock
um But yeah, I was struck to hearing you talk about ah that being a Christian is not a binary thing. Like at this point in my life, could I say,

00:19:12.37
Kevin Shock
ah You know, well, um, I just, I needed, I need to drop my responsibilities. I'm going to go and do what I want. And then I'll say some prayer on my deathbed.

00:19:20.66
Kevin Shock
And no, no, that would feel so counterintuitive. it would in And not not because i don't want, not because it wouldn't make sense, not because I've invested too much in it or, you know, some some kind of worldly um justification like that.

00:19:24.25
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:19:35.93
Kevin Shock
No, it's because that's not who I am.

00:19:38.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:19:39.51
Kevin Shock
As, as a follower of Jesus, um poor at it though I may be, I'm, I'm not the kind of person if I ever was, but I'm certainly not the kind of person now who just says, well, forget everyone else. I'm just going to go do what I want. That is how long that doesn't, that doesn't feel right.

00:20:01.08
Kevin Shock
And it's certainly, it certainly doesn't feel rewarding.

00:20:01.12
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:20:05.49
Kevin Shock
So I think that, you know, I don't,

00:20:07.86
Nathan Pile
you You could live with yourself for two weeks.

00:20:11.27
Kevin Shock
I don't even think I'd get that long.

00:20:11.93
Nathan Pile
But, but, well, it just would feel like a vacation. Hmm.

00:20:17.80
Kevin Shock
Well, let me tell you, though, coming off of two weeks of vacation where I was, it was pretty much a staycation and I got to do what I wanted. I was feeling restless by the end because, not but not because I missed my work and not because I mean, I think part of it was because I stayed at home and didn't go anywhere exciting. I think that was part of it, too.

00:20:37.07
Kevin Shock
But um I needed something more. And, and even like, even during that time, there were some things that Lisa and I did together, but during that time, you know, she was for significant part of it, she was at work.

00:20:42.23
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:20:50.72
Kevin Shock
So it was me just kind of like holding, you know, holding the fort at home and taking care of the daily things. And, and then like, you know, i was hanging out at night and stuff, but, but even that got to feel like we're just like, we're not, we're not collaborating on anything.

00:21:06.23
Kevin Shock
We're not, you know, that I don't, I don't know.

00:21:06.60
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:21:09.35
Kevin Shock
I don't know. Um, I mean, that did, I shared with you that that kind of, there, there was a project that we worked on my last night of staycation together. We worked on together. And that like, that turned everything around for me.

00:21:23.71
Kevin Shock
I think it's because that's who I am. I'm as, as a follower of Jesus, I'm part of a community.

00:21:28.39
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:21:30.77
Kevin Shock
I'm a collaborator. It's not about me making the best decision. It's about me being engaged with other people. Um, Like that's just a part of my identity. So yeah, I don't, ah being, and also being a, what's, I don't like that terminology, a Christian, but I mean, I think that's the terminology that we all use. Being, being righteous is not something that I ever accomplished on my own an entire lifetime long.

00:22:02.02
Kevin Shock
So I'm, I'm going to keep working at it until the day I die.

00:22:06.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:22:07.64
Kevin Shock
yeah,

00:22:09.83
Kevin Shock
And that's just because that's just the identity and call that I've been given. but That's what it comes down to.

00:22:14.46
Nathan Pile
Sure. It's become a part of you.

00:22:15.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:22:16.46
Nathan Pile
It's become the call and the gift have become a part of you, which is, I think, again, that's part of God's long plan, right?

00:22:17.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:22:23.55
Nathan Pile
God's long game, you know, is, is that it, that, that God

00:22:23.90
Kevin Shock
It is. Yeah. Yeah, it is Yep.

00:22:31.99
Nathan Pile
the the gift of the Holy Spirit becomes a part of us, you know, day to day.

00:22:36.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. yeah what is, what is Paul, what's the language that Paul uses here?

00:22:42.19
Kevin Shock
The Holy Spirit's the down payment on our inheritance.

00:22:44.59
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:22:45.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Which I think, you know, the common English Bible again, using some words that get our attention.

00:22:52.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:54.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah. ah go So, all right, let's do it a second time.

00:22:57.27
Kevin Shock
All right. Okay. From Ephesians 1. We have also received an inheritance in Christ. We were destined by the plan of God who accomplishes everything according to his design.

00:23:10.30
Kevin Shock
We are called to be an honor to God's glory because we were the first to hope in Christ. You too heard the word of truth in Christ, which is the good news of your salvation. You were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit because you believed in Christ.

00:23:23.78
Kevin Shock
The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God's own people, resulting in the honor of God's glory. Since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God's people, it is this is the reason that I don't stop giving thanks to God for you when I remember you in my prayers.

00:23:43.21
Kevin Shock
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, will give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation that makes God known to you. I pray that the eyes of your heart will have enough light to see what is the hope of God's call, what is the richness of God's glorious inheritance among believers, and And what is the overwhelming greatness of God's power that is working among us believers?

00:24:05.98
Kevin Shock
This power is conferred by the energy of God's powerful strength. God's power was at work in Christ when God raised him from the dead and sat him at God's right hand right side in the heavens.

00:24:19.02
Kevin Shock
Far above every rur- ruler and authority and power and angelic power, any power that might be named not only now but in the future, God put everything under Christ's feet and made him head of everything in the church, which is his body.

00:24:34.54
Kevin Shock
His body, the church, is the fullness of Christ, who fills everything in every way. Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:24:45.19
Nathan Pile
I forgot until you got to the end of it. were going me a question. Um, cause I got lost in his prayer.

00:24:53.68
Kevin Shock
All right, talk about that then. You don't have to answer the question.

00:24:55.41
Nathan Pile
ah Yeah. Yeah. Um, um, the, the prayer, um, um

00:25:05.89
Nathan Pile
like I would, I would, I would like to have met Paul. um Yeah, I know.

00:25:12.87
Kevin Shock
You will one day.

00:25:14.81
Nathan Pile
I will one day. um

00:25:16.02
Kevin Shock
can ask him all these questions that you have.

00:25:17.95
Nathan Pile
Well, I don't know. It's it's not a question. Like, the words that he uses um

00:25:27.74
Nathan Pile
here, um like, ah his just his deep faithfulness to not only to God, but his deep faithfulness to these people, who he prays over um to the people of Ephesus here.

00:25:42.17
Nathan Pile
um

00:25:42.26
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:25:44.49
Nathan Pile
Like

00:25:47.74
Nathan Pile
he, you know, we, many consider some of his writings to be um what's the best, best, like they were pretty sophi- sophisticated for the time.

00:26:04.08
Nathan Pile
Right. um

00:26:05.07
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:26:05.62
Nathan Pile
Like if, if you read Mark's gospel, which would have been written after Paul's letters, it's it it feels a little bit more basic.

00:26:17.11
Nathan Pile
Paul, as a scholar, was...

00:26:18.81
Kevin Shock
me

00:26:19.51
Nathan Pile
um was was gifted in those ways. and And so his writings, so I don't want to say that it's like he, he, he has a tendency to use lots of words to describe what he's trying to to get to his his point.

00:26:36.99
Nathan Pile
and um And this prayer, um know, he's praying this prayer because he's heard about their faith. And so that's where my head kind of went spiraling out of like, I'm praying for you because you two are living in this faith.

00:26:48.14
Kevin Shock
and

00:26:56.04
Nathan Pile
And, and, and as he then kind of goes down over it again, he says, says God, how many times, multiple times in each verse. Um, so again, he, he, his theology is keeping God at the center of all of these things.

00:27:11.73
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:27:11.77
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:27:13.05
Nathan Pile
ah for them. And so again, it's a part of, he's been gifted with the gift of the Holy Spirit. And so he's making sure that in his in his own writing that that keeping God central to all of that.

00:27:26.88
Nathan Pile
But it's, to me, it was, it's fascinating. Again, um you said about it being repetitive and it is repetitive. um and, and I can't think of a better word right now than flowery, but it's not really flowery.

00:27:40.12
Nathan Pile
um um But he he wants to provide praise

00:27:51.11
Nathan Pile
for God. And so he does that in big ways. Yeah. So it's not just, I pray that the God, i i pray that God, he prays that God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the God of of glory, will give you spirit of wisdom and revelation that makes God known to you.

00:28:12.97
Nathan Pile
you know So it's not just, I pray that God makes makes God's self known to you. That could be the sentence, right? um If it was a simple sentence, but that's, that's not Paul.

00:28:20.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right. Right.

00:28:24.49
Nathan Pile
And so I use the word flowery cause I don't know, maybe you as an English major have a better word for me. Um,

00:28:30.59
Kevin Shock
Well, I feel like I know what you're getting at when you say flowery. It, it does seem like, like there's a lot of just ah extravagant language in there. I mean, I think the, the repetition makes it feel like it's um but like he's trying to fill space.

00:28:48.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah. yeah it It reminds me of somebody praying right before the meal and you're like, just bring it to an end so we can eat.

00:28:50.81
Kevin Shock
Yeah,

00:28:58.72
Kevin Shock
yeah I was with um one of one of our colleagues and friends.

00:29:00.52
Nathan Pile
but

00:29:02.09
Kevin Shock
um I'm just, I'm just going to name her because I don't don't think she would mind. ah Deacon Alicia Anderson on a meeting the other day, and she offered to pray to open the meeting. And, and at the end of the prayer, she said, I'm, I'm just going to get I'm just going to end it there before I get too far afield.

00:29:21.24
Kevin Shock
Like, cause you could hear in the prayer, she started praying for like bigger and bigger and bigger things.

00:29:25.84
Kevin Shock
And then it was like, okay, we just have to be done with this now. Cause I could go on forever.

00:29:29.56
Nathan Pile
wow

00:29:30.02
Kevin Shock
um But I think that that's somewhat of what Paul's doing here. but I do think it's not, ah you know, no one came to him and say, okay, we need to turn this ah six, six page letter into a 12 page letter. So figure out where you can fill some more space.

00:29:45.92
Kevin Shock
He's not, he's not trying to work.

00:29:46.64
Nathan Pile
It's just, this is just who he, it's just who he is.

00:29:47.73
Kevin Shock
He, Yeah, it's just who he is, but it but that's but that's also it, because it's it there's sincerity in it.

00:29:54.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:55.11
Kevin Shock
it's It's genuine. It does sound flowery, but it's not um it's not superficial.

00:29:56.50
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:30:02.47
Kevin Shock
there's There's depth to it. and And I like what you say, that that God remains at the center of everything that he's saying here.

00:30:09.18
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:30:10.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:30:11.73
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So, and, and like, so I think, I guess to, to, um to answer the question, keeping God at the center um would be a way to answer this question.

00:30:26.88
Nathan Pile
But as I got, again, as you read this prayer, um I thought the same thing as I was reading it, but listening to you um I was just struck by his his faithfulness again to God and to these people um that he's writing to, wanting to to guide them in their journey

00:30:50.98
Nathan Pile
um and in their relationship with God. and And so, yeah.

00:31:01.25
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend, towards what is God calling you in this passage?

00:31:04.86
Kevin Shock
I have no idea. I don't, I don't know.

00:31:10.69
Nathan Pile
Thanks, Paul.

00:31:11.19
Kevin Shock
there's no, I, no, I mean, I, I say that because I feel like this is there's eight ah flowery I mean, I don't think that, I don't think it's a bad word for it Nathan honestly but it's also fundamental it's, it's like this is

00:31:11.68
Nathan Pile
Thanks for keeping it clear.

00:31:30.89
Kevin Shock
So what you said, maybe maybe that gets to the root of it too, keeping God at the center of things. um It's so easy, I think, for us human beings to be engaged in this in this call to be a follower of Christ and and slip into that. I think, I think we lose hope when we slip into the idea that, oh, this this work I'm doing isn't bearing any fruit.

00:32:00.96
Kevin Shock
This work I'm doing isn't making an impact.

00:32:01.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:32:03.50
Kevin Shock
And I think that's where we make the, I think that's where we make the mistake is that this is, yeah, this is the work that you're doing, but this is God's work that you're doing. It's not your, it's not your work.

00:32:15.08
Kevin Shock
If it, if it were, if it were just your work, it would be pointless.

00:32:20.60
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:32:20.70
Kevin Shock
But, but there is, but the work that you're doing, and when I say work, I mean everything from being a pastor or a camp director to uh being engaged in civic matters to being a good mother and, you know, and, and, and person of the household, ah you know, I mean, and whatever the work is, but whatever, whatever God is calling you into, that's when I say work and and it's not, it, it, one is not more important than the other.

00:32:57.76
Kevin Shock
It's just that we're called in different ways to that. And I know that, I know that pastors say that a lot and it kind of, it can come across as sounding hollow, but the church means nothing if there aren't faithful parents at home and, and faithful spouses at home.

00:33:13.99
Kevin Shock
It doesn't mean a thing that, you know, we can't come to church and make everything better. If, if this call doesn't extend to be on the walls of that place or that community, um,

00:33:25.49
Kevin Shock
it's the, it's the ripple effect of the church. The church that does, in its in its faithfulness, not perfectly, keep God in Christ at the center of things.

00:33:38.23
Kevin Shock
So that then that that that impact that we feel, that we know from what God in Christ has done and is doing, has ripple effects out into the community, into our households, into our neighborhoods, into our wider communities, into our government, into all kinds of things.

00:33:59.10
Kevin Shock
um

00:34:02.03
Kevin Shock
But when we're talking about that, I think you know there are also different faith traditions. when we're When you and I are talking about that as Lutheran Christians, we're talking about making sure that that love of neighbor and love of God are first and foremost, and that that seeing people, dignifying people, caring for people it's not about turning everyone into a Christian. It's not about, you know, but driving out all of the evil.

00:34:29.58
Kevin Shock
It, it's about, it's about giving, giving off the same gifts that we've been given.

00:34:39.29
Kevin Shock
And, um, and that makes, that makes a difference that, that the way that God works through people has a ripple effect out into the world.

00:34:39.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:34:50.44
Kevin Shock
Um, So maybe that is my answer. that that i keep It's the same answer as you, keeping God at the center, but also not confusing God's work for our work, because then it's then it is pointless.

00:35:03.26
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:35:05.04
Kevin Shock
it's it doesn't It doesn't matter. there's no There's no end goal.

00:35:10.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:35:10.85
Kevin Shock
but But when the end goal is

00:35:15.78
Kevin Shock
the the complete salvation of all things and reconciliation of all things, that's It's worthwhile. And, and, and we, we are not going to be on this earth whenever that comes to realization.

00:35:33.00
Kevin Shock
I mean, I'm assuming I, you know, I, God could call an audible tomorrow and change that all. I, I, I don't know, but I'm, I'm, I'm assuming that I'm not going to live to see the day when all of ah all nations and all of creation live in, in unity with one another.

00:35:41.41
Nathan Pile
Yeah, sure.

00:35:49.54
Kevin Shock
I, ah but, But I know that I will be, I know that I will be living when that happens.

00:35:56.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:35:57.92
Kevin Shock
and And I...

00:35:59.33
Nathan Pile
Because that down payment's already been made.

00:36:01.94
Kevin Shock
Right, right. The down payment's been made. The inheritance is ours. And and and we are we are God's... I don't want to... you know Paul might say, no, you're wrong. I don't know.

00:36:15.42
Kevin Shock
but, but we're God's investment in this.

00:36:18.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:36:19.52
Kevin Shock
So the the work... The work that we're doing today matters for the ages to come.

00:36:27.97
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:36:28.48
Kevin Shock
And, um, and it's be- and again, because it's not, it's not our work, but it's work that we've been called into work that we've been invited into. um that does, uh, does push us toward that, that, that, and that end goal, that plan, that design.

00:36:47.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:36:50.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:36:53.46
Kevin Shock
It's God's work. Remember that. That's, that's what this is calling me to.

00:36:59.19
Nathan Pile
um

00:37:02.07
Nathan Pile
You just said something.

00:37:05.16
Kevin Shock
I did.

00:37:05.38
Nathan Pile
But now I'm, now I'm trying to replay it in my head. You did say something. You said several things. um But it left an image in my head. And the image is still in my head, but now I'm trying to go back and, and what did you exactly say that led me to that image?

00:37:23.15
Nathan Pile
um So the the image that's in my head is um

00:37:35.92
Nathan Pile
is our, is our young adults that I work with here at Sequanota, helping them

00:37:47.87
Nathan Pile
create a um a faithful community here. Right, like so I only get two weeks with them right before we start um our summer so two weeks of staff training um but that idea of god's given them the gift of the holy spirit and then how do we together um

00:38:12.06
Nathan Pile
How do we live that out, that gift of the Holy Spirit, that inheritance that we've been given? How do we live that out in this space, in that time? um And it it just kind of jogged for me.

00:38:25.84
Nathan Pile
That would be an interesting thing to sit and think about here in my off season, to think about how do we what kinds of things can I help our young adults?

00:38:38.10
Nathan Pile
um How might I help our young adults?

00:38:43.73
Nathan Pile
um, live into the reality that, that it's already there. So it's already been a gift given to them

00:38:51.38
Nathan Pile
to help them kind of live that out. Um, so I, I, now I still can't from the life of me remember exactly what you said that got me there, but, um, it was around that idea of being gifted this thing that we've been gifted.

00:39:08.07
Nathan Pile
um kind of sparks it that way, but, but thinking about

00:39:17.39
Nathan Pile
how do we help? One of the things that I see within our young adults is having the, the confidence to step into being a faith formation leader, even though that's what they are on our summer staff, right?

00:39:33.24
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:39:33.54
Nathan Pile
But the the confidence of having that is one of the things that I think they

00:39:33.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:39:39.77
Nathan Pile
like that is that that needs strengthened in in our time. And so to recognize that they have this gift of the Holy Spirit that already exists with them, in them, but giving them some confidence around it so that so that the work that they do over the course of the summer, maybe not easier, because again, it's gods God's got the big work to do.

00:40:05.00
Kevin Shock
No, yeah, no, it's not easier.

00:40:06.34
Nathan Pile
but but But that it gives them right but that gives them the the ability to do it or or the confidence to step into it because of the because you know

00:40:21.05
Nathan Pile
they've come to to work on summer staff. They've come to, to share their gifts in those ways.

00:40:26.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:40:26.40
Nathan Pile
So it's curious to me of how do we help

00:40:33.71
Nathan Pile
As I think about it, how do we help these young adults, but how do we help one another have the confidence to live in it, to to live in that, the gift that's been given.

00:40:47.42
Nathan Pile
So, yeah, it's good.

00:40:51.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that I don't know. that gives us I think that gives us a lot to think about. That there's, there is this tension between the, the work is never easy.

00:40:55.93
Nathan Pile
It does.

00:41:02.57
Kevin Shock
It might be fruitful at times. It might be it might be rewarding at times, but I don't think it's ever easy. And when it's not rewarding, it certainly doesn't feel like it's easy.

00:41:16.45
Kevin Shock
But then again, the perspective is that we're we're engaged in this work because we have a small kernel of hope, because we've been called into it, and because we trust that there is there is good that will come out of this at some point in time.

00:41:28.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:41:30.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:41:32.09
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:41:36.35
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:41:37.82
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, yeah.

00:41:37.92
Nathan Pile
Small kernel of hope.

00:41:41.34
Kevin Shock
I, um, I, um, one of the, one of the things I did during my staycation was we've been going through a lot of stuff, uh, as Lisa and I have been, I guess downsizing is something that we could call it really. ah Like we're not like we're retiring or moving or anything, just making spaces in our, our tiny house more functional.

00:42:02.79
Kevin Shock
Um, but I've gone through a fair amount of pictures and, um, And the funny thing I've noticed about the pictures I'm, I'm jettisoning, jett-is-oning is, uh, all the pictures of places I don't care about, but the pictures of people,

00:42:22.80
Nathan Pile
Those are the things holding on to. Yeah.

00:42:24.22
Kevin Shock
those are the ones I'm hanging onto. Yeah. And, uh, and I, and I see, you know, even though a lot of those pictures, lot of the ones I've been looking through are 30, 30 years thirty years old um And, and, and back then I had no idea where I'd be for 30 years from then.

00:42:45.89
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:42:46.98
Kevin Shock
I certainly didn't envision I'd be where I am now 30 years ago. Um, but I can, I can see,

00:42:56.09
Kevin Shock
I can, I can see how those relationships and those situations had a positive effect on my life and, and were pushing me in a direction that, um,

00:43:09.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:43:12.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Pushing me in the direction where I'm, where I am now. So, yeah.

00:43:16.68
Nathan Pile
Oh.

00:43:17.86
Kevin Shock
Also had a, had a, was with a group of, uh, older and wiser gentlemen than I was during my time off, uh, over a lunch. And one of them, uh, pastor Steve Lynn,

00:43:32.24
Kevin Shock
was telling the group about, oh yeah, I remember Kevin when he was when he was young, the first time we encountered each other at Sequanota. And he said as a camper, and I said, I actually wasn't a camper, I was a counselor the first time we encountered each other at Sequanota.

00:43:40.79
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:43:46.50
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:43:48.91
Kevin Shock
But um he said something to the group about like, I could see in him where he was headed or you know something like that.

00:43:48.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:43:57.90
Kevin Shock
and and and I said to the group, nope, that's,

00:43:59.02
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:44:02.49
Kevin Shock
It's true because Steve was the first person who wasn't my home pastor who said, you might be called into this work.

00:44:13.89
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Huh.

00:44:19.11
Kevin Shock
Um, and it, I don't know. It, it means, oh my gosh, I just get choked up about that. I'm turning into my mother. Um,

00:44:27.56
Nathan Pile
It's okay, Debbie. We love you.

00:44:29.54
Kevin Shock
yeah yes Yes, we do. um It means a lot to me that he remembers that.

00:44:37.38
Nathan Pile
The moment, because you remember it, obviously. It's, it's,

00:44:40.32
Kevin Shock
I remember it.

00:44:41.28
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah You've told the story many times in our lifetime together.

00:44:41.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:44:44.04
Nathan Pile
so

00:44:44.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:44.72
Nathan Pile
um and

00:44:46.27
Kevin Shock
that that he and that And that he remembers it is affirming to me that there was...

00:44:46.35
Nathan Pile
But that that it still means as much to him, too. Yeah.

00:44:58.19
Kevin Shock
something bigger than the two of us.

00:45:00.85
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:45:04.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah. In the moment.

00:45:08.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:45:08.23
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:45:08.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:45:12.09
Kevin Shock
Okay. ah Let's move on the third.

00:45:14.55
Nathan Pile
All right. Third time through.

00:45:15.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:45:16.01
Nathan Pile
Third time through.

00:45:16.18
Kevin Shock
Let's do the third time through.

00:45:16.71
Nathan Pile
Kevin's going to recover. I'm going to read it. All right.

00:45:25.19
Nathan Pile
We have also received an inheritance in Christ. We were destined by the plan of God, who accomplishes everything according to his design. We are called to be an honor to God's glory because we were the first to hope in Christ.

00:45:41.48
Nathan Pile
You too heard the word of truth in Christ, which is the good news of your salvation. You were sealed with the whole the promised Holy Spirit because you believed in Christ.

00:45:52.23
Nathan Pile
The Holy Spirit is the down payment on our inheritance, which is applied toward our redemption as God's own people, resulting in the honor of God's glory.

00:46:05.23
Nathan Pile
Since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God's people, this is the reason that I don't stop giving thanks to God for you when I remember you in my prayers.

00:46:19.54
Nathan Pile
I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, will give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation that makes God known to you.

00:46:30.63
Nathan Pile
I pray that the eyes of your heart will have enough light to see what is the hope of God's call. What is the richness of God's glorious inheritance among believers?

00:46:43.74
Nathan Pile
And what is the overwhelming greatness of God's power that is working among us believers? This power is conferred by the energy of God's powerful strength. God's power was at work in Christ's when God raised him from the dead and sat him at God's right side in the heavens, far above every ruler and authority and power and angelic power, any power that might be named not only now but in the future.

00:47:11.84
Nathan Pile
God put everything under Christ's feet and made him head of everything in the church, which is his body. His body, the church, is the fullness of Christ, who fills everything in every way.

00:47:29.93
Nathan Pile
Kevin, what do you witness God's power doing?

00:47:39.83
Kevin Shock
What's behind this question is um

00:47:45.97
Kevin Shock
that Paul's assertion that that the same power of God that raised Jesus from the grave and broke open the gates of hell is still active today.

00:48:03.69
Kevin Shock
And I don't think we think about I don't think we think about how powerful that is or or that, you know you know, you hear people say things like, well, miracles don't happen like they did in the Bible, don't they? the They do.

00:48:20.44
Kevin Shock
They do. And using Paul's words verbatim from this text, I pray that the eyes of your heart will have enough light to see them.

00:48:33.71
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:48:36.46
Kevin Shock
what What happened in biblical times

00:48:42.84
Kevin Shock
isn't any different than what happens today, except that the people who were the people who are reporting these things, writing about them, talking about them, saw them in a particular perspective through the lens of God's power.

00:48:59.78
Kevin Shock
And...

00:49:02.95
Kevin Shock
So, you know, one one piece of, you know, where do I witness that? One piece of evidence is that a...

00:49:12.71
Kevin Shock
I'm going to lose it again, Nathan. A five-minute interaction 30 years ago

00:49:20.95
Nathan Pile
hmm

00:49:25.16
Kevin Shock
still humbles me.

00:49:28.64
Nathan Pile
sure

00:49:32.22
Kevin Shock
But I think, I think where I also see it is I think that there is... I see it through the people who are engaged in this podcast and through other people that I know.

00:49:43.81
Kevin Shock
I think that in a world that is incredibly divisive

00:49:53.71
Kevin Shock
and that the evil one is using situations to divide us, I see a growing tide of unity.

00:50:04.09
Kevin Shock
I see people who are saying either we're fed up with the disunity that we're going tap into the unity, or I see people who are recognizing ah the things that I see in this world and the things that I used to put my hope in before are not doing it.

00:50:13.06
Nathan Pile
yeah.

00:50:28.52
Kevin Shock
And I know there's something I know there's something greater. I know there's a greater force out there.

00:50:34.54
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:50:34.92
Kevin Shock
And I think, I think that's God's power at work. i think I think God is taking communities and groups of people that were dead to one another and raising them to new life.

00:50:53.08
Kevin Shock
I'm, I'm seeing it, you know, I, I see it in our congregations. You know, I came back from churchwide assembly and told people, There was a different feeling there.

00:51:06.74
Kevin Shock
It felt more hopeful. um Bishop Collins just came back from Conference of Bishops and said, things feel different there. It's more hopeful. I hear, I hear congregations talking about um people being more engaged or you know seeing a different level of engagement or seeing people being invited in um that, that there, there does, there seems to be something that is, ah this is the trend, it's not you know it's not everywhere, but but that the the ah but the decline and the scarcity and the hopelessness that some communities have been feeling seems to be turning around a little bit.

00:52:02.35
Kevin Shock
And I can I can only attribute that to the power of God who who raised Jesus from the tomb. Yeah.

00:52:13.87
Kevin Shock
So that's where I that's where I witnessed the power of God at work. What about you?

00:52:19.28
Nathan Pile
Um, well, uh, just, using a broad brushstroke, you've talked about specific places. It's, it's in my interactions with people, right? It's in, it's in our interactions together, uh, is where, and, and probably I'm not as good, like, like if I'm really being honest, it's probably,

00:52:49.65
Nathan Pile
the,

00:52:52.74
Nathan Pile
I see some of God's fruit that then helps me to make the connections back through the system um of,

00:53:07.44
Nathan Pile
of witnessing that God was doing the work. And so I can see, you know, like I see the, I see the fruit of, of long...

00:53:18.84
Nathan Pile
Again, people being patient, people being faithful, um and, and people seeking unity.

00:53:32.17
Nathan Pile
But that, that's the actual... You know, I got an apple tree here. It's outside the office. and And that's the actual, you know, the, the flower in the spring that comes out and is a nice little white flower.

00:53:45.03
Nathan Pile
I'm like, ooh, there's the fruit here. yeah This is where the apple is going to grow kind of a thing.

00:53:50.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:53:51.17
Nathan Pile
but But it takes until I see that flower to realize that the leaves and the roots and the tree did all of its job, if that makes sense.

00:54:02.03
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

00:54:02.85
Nathan Pile
You know?

00:54:02.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:04.38
Nathan Pile
um my My human side needs to see the fruit to be able to witness to God's power. um

00:54:14.15
Nathan Pile
Because I think it goes back to what I said earlier, the Holy Spirit and hope are invisible until it gets lived out in human beings. And so when I start to see hope and the Holy Spirit at work in and in others...

00:54:33.53
Nathan Pile
that's when I start to see those those first fruits. and And when I see the first fruits, then it's easy to kind of see the whole tree, to see how big God, this bigger thing that God's been working on that was kind of oblivious to me up until the fruit shows up. You know, it's, it's like the tree's invisible until the apple shows up. And then I'm like, oh, where'd this tree come from?

00:55:00.99
Nathan Pile
I can't say that word. that just say a word that That makes us explicit.

00:55:03.70
Kevin Shock
I don't think we've said it before. That's

00:55:05.95
Nathan Pile
Oh, sorry.

00:55:06.29
Kevin Shock
if

00:55:07.16
Nathan Pile
um Sorry, everyone.

00:55:08.41
Kevin Shock
okay That's all right.

00:55:08.85
Nathan Pile
All right.

00:55:09.89
Kevin Shock
I think we're okay. I think we're okay.

00:55:11.91
Nathan Pile
Hopefully we don't get flagged. um But, like, it's that idea, right? Like, it's like, There had to be... the tree The tree had to be there the whole time for the fruit to show up. But, but sometimes I don't see... you know, I can only speak for myself.

00:55:26.08
Nathan Pile
um But I don't see... that until I see the fruit. And then I'm able to see all of the connections and see how God interwoven. And so looking back, you know, historically, it's easy for me to make those connections to to say, here's where I witnessed as, as you share the story 30 years ago, you and pastor Lynn sitting out here in the field, having a conversation, um,

00:55:58.21
Nathan Pile
was the beginning of that fruit for you. and and and And obviously the tree has only gotten bigger over the course of your lifetime um that that fruit was on.

00:56:04.72
Kevin Shock
Right, right. right

00:56:06.13
Nathan Pile
And so there there there is a part of us as human beings, ah again, this is my perspective, but um that we need to see that end fruit to be able to witness the power that that God has been working on.

00:56:19.32
Nathan Pile
But as, as we've said throughout this podcast, god this is God's always working on big things and we don't see them. God sees them and, and has, is making the connections that need to be that need to be made.

00:56:31.92
Nathan Pile
I do hope that spotting fruit once makes me better at spotting fruit again and again and again and again and again.

00:56:41.14
Kevin Shock
Uh, yeah.

00:56:41.93
Nathan Pile
um

00:56:42.84
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:56:43.51
Nathan Pile
And so that idea of, ah ah you know, that I hope... that I am a better witness of God's power and what God's doing today than I was 20 years ago when I stood on that road and and had a fake argument with my professor.

00:57:01.43
Nathan Pile
um Because I've, I've hopefully learned...

00:57:08.03
Nathan Pile
a little bit more about myself and learned a little bit more about the Holy Spirit and learned a little bit more about hope. And so might be able to kind of say, oh, I see, I see hope here.

00:57:18.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:57:18.69
Nathan Pile
I see, I see fruit beginning. I see that blossom getting ready to break open. And so I know there's, there's fruit is coming.

00:57:27.61
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah

00:57:28.75
Nathan Pile
as opposed to it needing to be an, ah you know, maybe when I was younger, it needed to be an actual apple for me to believe that there was fruit there. Whereas, you know, in my middle, in my 20s and 30s, I was able to say, you know, if I see a flower, I know fruit's coming.

00:57:43.31
Nathan Pile
But now, you know, at 49, maybe it's even something smaller than the flower that I can start to tell, ooh, here's where fruit is going to bear. Yeah.

00:57:56.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. yeah

00:57:57.34
Nathan Pile
Kind of a thing. So um so ah for me, eye witness God's power in, in our interactions as human beings. And again, my hope is that that

00:58:13.32
Nathan Pile
living a life living a a life with the Holy Spirit, um that it helps me to be hopeful, to to be watching for where is God going to make the next...

00:58:28.03
Nathan Pile
those next pieces of fruit up appear, um, so that I can see the, the invisible tree because ah knowing where the invisible tree is, I think still seems ah ah way above me.

00:58:31.27
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:58:39.28
Nathan Pile
Like I'm, uh, like I, I can hope that it's there. I can be praying that God is making a tree where I can't see it because it needs to be there. Um, but until I begin to witness the fruit of it, it, it is, it is hope.

00:58:56.75
Nathan Pile
Um, But once I see some signs that all the hope that that fruit is going to blossom in this location, um

00:59:08.60
Nathan Pile
then it becomes my job as a as a proclaimer to point at it and say, oh, look what's going to happen over here. Look what's going to happen over here.

00:59:15.54
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, yep.

00:59:15.72
Nathan Pile
um It's good. if This is so exciting.

00:59:16.74
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:59:17.96
Nathan Pile
It's all coming together. um Because, again, I think this is how God has operated for generations. um, for Paul, for, for us now today.

00:59:25.69
Kevin Shock
yep

00:59:29.97
Nathan Pile
um and, and, and that, that our striving, our nurturing, our working, in faith for, with each other, um, takes care of, and, and, and is God is using us to, to make the, to create those invisible trees and eventual fruit.

00:59:53.16
Nathan Pile
Um, But we have to continue to be to be faithful in that.

01:00:01.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:00:02.04
Nathan Pile
Trusting trusting that that it's important for our two buddies to get together once a week and and have a podcast. That's one example of, of many.

01:00:09.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right.

01:00:10.98
Nathan Pile
But trusting that that ah this simple time of taking an hour to chat about Scripture is important.

01:00:11.15
Kevin Shock
Yep. Hmm.

01:00:20.01
Nathan Pile
Not just for for you and me, um and And for those that might listen, but God is doing something that you and I can't even see.

01:00:30.12
Kevin Shock
Nope, we can't see it. That's right.

01:00:31.61
Nathan Pile
Right. And so someday down the line, we'll be able to connect it back to, oh, look at the podcast.

01:00:33.40
Kevin Shock
Yep.

01:00:40.17
Nathan Pile
It's in the tree too. And we didn't know that.

01:00:44.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

01:00:47.45
Nathan Pile
So.

01:00:49.46
Kevin Shock
Well, thanks.

01:00:52.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah, thank you.

01:00:52.57
Kevin Shock
That's, yeah, that's, I really like your image of that. that the looking for the fruit. I mean, I think that's, a that's, that's, that's a good parable, Nathan.

01:01:06.08
Kevin Shock
You're going to have to write that down or something. I don't know. um But the yeah, the the image of that apple tree out in front of your office and thinking about all the ways that, yeah, that I think i think anyone who's listening to this can think back on their life and think of places where blossoms have come And, ah you know, when any, anytime someone has said to me, oh I think, I think you're being called to this or I see these gifts in you.

01:01:39.90
Kevin Shock
I don't, I don't see that stuff. I don't know. You know, when, when Pastor Lynn had that five minute conversation with me 30 years ago, I had no idea what the heck he was talking about.

01:01:52.37
Nathan Pile
Sure.

01:01:53.23
Kevin Shock
There was a good chance he didn't have any idea what the heck he was talking about. I mean, I mean, no, I mean, I mean, no, what, what he was doing was he was, he was pointing to something.

01:02:02.57
Nathan Pile
Sure.

01:02:03.42
Kevin Shock
He was faithfully pointing to something, but I don't think he knew what that pointing was going to lead to.

01:02:03.45
Nathan Pile
Sure.

01:02:08.54
Nathan Pile
Sure. Yeah.

01:02:10.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And, and again, I mean, I, if I say it once, if I say it a million times, it's not enough. This is not about people becoming pastors. This is about, this is, this is about us affirming in one another, the gifts that we see and where we see God at work in one another.

01:02:18.80
Nathan Pile
Right

01:02:25.76
Kevin Shock
And, um, And like I said earlier in this podcast, ah pastors would pastors are entirely useless if there aren't good spouses and parents and community members.

01:02:36.26
Kevin Shock
And we're all we're all part of that same garden. Yeah.

01:02:41.16
Nathan Pile
Right.

01:02:42.39
Kevin Shock
yep

01:02:42.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

01:02:45.78
Kevin Shock
All right. Well. If there are other places that you want to see fruit come forth, here's some texts that you can look at. ah this is This is, after all, a um these are appointed texts for All Saints Day.

01:02:59.71
Kevin Shock
A lot of our congregations this coming Sunday will be observing All Saints Sundays all saints Sunday. um ah So Daniel chapter 7, verses 1 through 3 and 15 through 18.

01:03:12.49
Kevin Shock
ah The holy ones of the Most High shall receive the kingdom. Psalm 149, sing the Lord's praise in the assembly of the faithful. Oops, I accidentally kept this text in, that additional text. And Luke 6, 20 through 31, Jesus speaks blessings and woes.

01:03:35.24
Kevin Shock
That's from the Sermon on the Plain. um Luke's version of what we call the Beatitudes in Matthew. so plus, except he includes some woes in this one too.

01:03:44.84
Nathan Pile
He does, yeah.

01:03:45.88
Kevin Shock
ah Um, anyway, folks, we, we love to hear your reflections, uh, and, and appreciate everyone who writes in, uh, whenever you do it. And, um, and we, we'd love to hear about the ways that you see God's power at work in the world as well.

01:04:02.69
Kevin Shock
So email us, uh, don't contact us on social media because Nathan and I don't check it. Email us. That's the best way to do it.

01:04:09.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's the best way.

01:04:09.90
Kevin Shock
but Well, but we can always figure out something else.

01:04:13.81
Nathan Pile
It's a ah us email technically is a form of social media, but it's just like a really old version of it.

01:04:14.59
Kevin Shock
Uh, yeah.

01:04:18.34
Kevin Shock
It is. Yeah, sure. All right.

01:04:20.40
Nathan Pile
So we're both getting older.

01:04:21.31
Kevin Shock
That's right. That's great.

01:04:22.57
Nathan Pile
So just stick with the old version of social media.

01:04:25.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. We do see stuff on social media now and again, but anyway.

01:04:29.50
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:04:29.71
Kevin Shock
um So that's all to say that we hope to tend our faith with you again soon, whether it's in real time or across digital means grace and peace to you.

01:04:40.18
Nathan Pile
Mm hmm.

01:04:42.94
Kevin Shock
I'm sorry. Grace to you.

01:04:43.41
Nathan Pile
And peace. Yeah, Kevin's taking my line, so that's the way it goes.

01:04:44.69
Kevin Shock
Thanks, Nathan.

01:04:47.39
Kevin Shock
Well, I ad-libbed there, so I got thrown off.

01:04:49.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

01:04:51.85
Kevin Shock
All right. Peace, everyone.

01:04:53.88
Nathan Pile
Peace.