Episode 55: Luke 20:27-38

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do those who have died stay alive to you?

Additional texts:

Job 19:23-27a

Psalm 17:1-9

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5, 13-17

Haggai 1:15b—2:9

Psalm 145:1-5, 17-21

Psalm 98

Transcript

00:00:02.23
Nathan Pile
All right, Kevin, it was windy here last night and a new front came blowing in. We went from a beautiful 70 degree ah Sunday to a 39 degree morning.

00:00:19.68
Nathan Pile
um

00:00:21.03
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:00:21.48
Nathan Pile
It's funny how the wind, and again, scripturally, sometimes that's considered to be the spirit.

00:00:28.53
Kevin Shock
Of course.

00:00:28.76
Nathan Pile
Blows in and changes everything. So, um, so we're going to look at some scripture today. um Kevin, my friend, and maybe it yet again, changes.

00:00:42.68
Kevin Shock
The wind will blow.

00:00:44.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah. it Yet again, changes and, um, it's going to change the way you and I look at the world today. Um, so I'm looking forward to it.

00:00:53.51
Kevin Shock
I hope so. Yeah.

00:00:54.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So um this week, everybody, we are looking at Luke, the 20th chapter, verses 27 through 38. Kevin and I are going to read it from the Common English Bible, our new favorite translation.

00:01:11.60
Nathan Pile
um

00:01:12.60
Kevin Shock
Mm

00:01:14.02
Nathan Pile
um Kevin, did I tell you I bought a bunch of these for summer camp this summer? Did I tell you that?

00:01:18.66
Kevin Shock
hmm. Yes, yes, he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah you mentioned

00:01:20.65
Nathan Pile
We did.

00:01:22.20
Kevin Shock
at one point that you bought like 30 of them or something for,

00:01:25.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah, we use them for some of our Bible study. ah The problem for Nathan's 49-year-old eyes was that the font was ridiculously small.

00:01:27.71
Kevin Shock
oh

00:01:32.90
Kevin Shock
that was really small.

00:01:36.99
Nathan Pile
So every time we had to read it, I had to pull out my glasses and the kids gave me a rough time.

00:01:40.90
Kevin Shock
Did you buy study Bibles or, or ah just, yeah.

00:01:43.80
Nathan Pile
No, it was just simple simple translation.

00:01:45.39
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:01:45.77
Nathan Pile
So not a study of the Bible.

00:01:46.17
Kevin Shock
Okay. Yeah. Because I have, I have a study Bible version of it and it is, yes, I have to, I cannot, ah sometimes um when I'm doing my ah prayer, I will do it by candlelight.

00:02:03.73
Kevin Shock
And one night I was doing it by candlelight and I could, I could barely make out what the what the Bible said. guess.

00:02:12.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I've, I've decided that I am going to buy myself my own large print edition.

00:02:12.37
Kevin Shock
ah

00:02:17.07
Nathan Pile
um But like that sentence by itself bothers me.

00:02:24.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I know, right?

00:02:25.31
Nathan Pile
But I got to do it. I got to do it. Buy my own study version with large print and I'll be good to go.

00:02:27.33
Kevin Shock
Yep, yep.

00:02:31.18
Nathan Pile
But, but I do look forward to our, our reading here today.

00:02:32.03
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:02:36.34
Nathan Pile
ah Three questions, as is our pattern here at Tend. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:02:47.30
Nathan Pile
And ah the third question Kevin has baked up for us. How do those who have died stay alive to you? Hmm. That already makes me sad.

00:02:59.51
Nathan Pile
Um, I love the question, but it already makes me, ah no, no, it's, it's like, I miss my, my family that has passed away.

00:03:03.38
Kevin Shock
Oh, no.

00:03:08.95
Nathan Pile
So, um, so, but that's, we'll see.

00:03:09.61
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, you'll see the, the wording comes from scripture.

00:03:14.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. I have no doubt.

00:03:14.85
Kevin Shock
ah

00:03:16.20
Nathan Pile
I have no doubt.

00:03:16.20
Kevin Shock
ah

00:03:16.88
Nathan Pile
You're good about that.

00:03:19.27
Kevin Shock
Here is some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

00:03:23.67
Nathan Pile
Thank

00:03:28.73
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:03:40.58
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

00:03:52.40
Kevin Shock
As Nathan said, we're reading from Luke, the 20th chapter today.

00:03:59.14
Kevin Shock
Some Sadducees, who deny that there is a resurrection, came to Jesus and asked, Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies, leaving a widow but no children, the brother must marry the widow and raise up children for his brother.

00:04:15.14
Kevin Shock
Now there were seven brothers. The first man married a woman and then died childless. The second and then the third brother married her. Eventually all seven married her and they all died without leaving any children.

00:04:29.13
Kevin Shock
Finally, the woman died too. In the resurrection, whose wife will she be? All seven were married to her. Jesus said to them, People who belong to this age marry and are given in marriage.

00:04:41.34
Kevin Shock
But those who are considered worthy to participate in that age, that is, in the age of resurrection from the dead, won't marry, nor will they be given in marriage. They can no longer die because they are like angels and are God's children since they share in the resurrection.

00:04:57.61
Kevin Shock
Even Moses demonstrated that the dead are raised in the passage about the burning bush when he speaks of the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

00:05:08.83
Kevin Shock
He isn't the God of the dead, but of the living. To him, they are all alive.

00:05:16.39
Kevin Shock
If you are listening with a group or someone else, you can pause the podcast and ask the questions of one another. ah Nathan asks, What word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:05:29.96
Nathan Pile
um The thing that struck me as you were reading it is that ah doest it does not seem to be um the generation. Any generation can come up with hypothetical questions that are just um that that challenge the mystery that is God.

00:05:43.90
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:05:54.30
Kevin Shock
Hmm, yeah.

00:05:54.42
Nathan Pile
um And so as as you were reading it there, like I could, I can you know I myself have come up with those kinds of questions in my own life of, of well, what about this, God?

00:06:10.89
Nathan Pile
Kind of a thing.

00:06:12.35
Nathan Pile
and And here we have, again, religious leaders from that time um doing the same thing to Jesus. you know What about this? Yeah. you say you believe this and, and that we as human beings, we have a tendency to just kind of poke holes in each other.

00:06:32.14
Nathan Pile
Um, and what we believe sometimes. Um, and here it's the Sadducees here, you know, it's Sadducee who is a religious leader. And so maybe it's a higher leveled question trying to poke at another religious leader who is Jesus, um, doing that, um,

00:06:52.83
Nathan Pile
But like,

00:06:56.54
Nathan Pile
I've always thought of questions as good in my faith development. But here is an example of questions that are just kind of um what seems to be is just tearing apart

00:07:17.77
Nathan Pile
another's belief system. And so maybe that's where, maybe that's the line in the sand for me of you know, questions are good in our faith.

00:07:21.57
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:07:28.88
Nathan Pile
When I'm asking questions to help me understand God and the world and my relationship with the world, those are okay. But when I'm asking questions, when I'm trying to poke holes in someone else's belief system or understanding of God,

00:07:43.54
Nathan Pile
that maybe that's when I'm going too far. Because I think one of the things I notice about myself now, more in the last five years than maybe the five years before, is that I feel like a'm more critical.

00:07:56.39
Nathan Pile
Yes, of myself, but also of our world. And maybe that's really not true, but it's at least a way that I feel um at times.

00:08:04.22
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:08:05.15
Nathan Pile
and And these questions make me feel like that like, like I'm being more critical of someone else

00:08:14.16
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:08:14.57
Nathan Pile
um

00:08:17.52
Nathan Pile
by trying to poke holes in in what I see to be they're you know what i don't what doesn't seem to fit in in the faith tradition from my perspective.

00:08:28.38
Nathan Pile
like you know That's what these questions questions feel like to me. so um So I think that's the thing that pops up to me.

00:08:31.13
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:08:34.14
Nathan Pile
It's it's not just that we do it today um because here's scriptural reference from 2,000 years ago that they did it to each other.

00:08:48.12
Nathan Pile
It's a part of our human nature.

00:08:48.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

00:08:53.19
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? What word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:08:58.76
Kevin Shock
Well, it's, I mean, honestly, it's it's on similar lines um ah because my thinking was

00:09:08.03
Kevin Shock
in Luke's gospel, you have Jesus telling all kinds of parables that are really intended to make people think about what is, what the kingdom of god is like and and what we see here is it seems like there are some sadducees who are trying to beat Jesus at his own game and so they tell a ah parable but it, it, I assume it's a parable I assume that they don't really know of this woman um I, I don't think i don't think this is a real situation they're describing i think that that this is a hypothetical um but

00:09:47.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:09:48.18
Kevin Shock
what you said is exactly the thing is that the parable falls short. It falls flat because they're trying to poke holes in what Jesus says talking about.

00:10:00.58
Kevin Shock
Um, they're, they're, they're setting up a parable or a hypothetical that is intended to tear someone else's belief down instead of,

00:10:17.88
Kevin Shock
it instead of promoting their own belief.

00:10:23.41
Kevin Shock
um And Jesus, Jesus never, Jesus doesn't spend time

00:10:33.85
Kevin Shock
in arguments with people about theology or the kingdom or whatever it might be. He spends time teaching people about what the kingdom is like. And he does it in a way through parables that are,

00:10:45.08
Kevin Shock
that get people to think. it's not ah It's not a simple didactic form of teaching like, okay, this is this is what we believe about heaven. This is what we believe about the kingdom to come. this you know but No, he, he does it in ways that are mysterious because the kingdom itself is mysterious.

00:11:03.26
Kevin Shock
People can't understand. you our, our feeble human minds can't understand what exactly the kingdom is like. We we can see glimpses of it. We can um understand it in part, but we certainly can't understand it in full.

00:11:20.08
Kevin Shock
And so I think that, yes, I, I, that's what grabs my attention here, is that the Sadducees are trying to beat him at his own game, and they're never going to be able to do that.

00:11:33.16
Kevin Shock
Because their reason for doing it is not a good and righteous reason. It's because they want to test him, they want to test him they want to

00:11:43.58
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:11:44.46
Kevin Shock
see him fail. They want people to quit following him, all these kinds of things.

00:11:48.08
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:11:51.29
Kevin Shock
And that's not what he's interested in doing. He's, I mean, he, he wants, he wants all these people to come along with him, even the people who disagree with him. ah And that's, and that's why he presents things the way that he does.

00:12:05.08
Kevin Shock
Cause he wants to invite people in, not exclude them.

00:12:13.90
Nathan Pile
Well, because he even he even answers their question.

00:12:13.88
Kevin Shock
So yeah, that's what.

00:12:16.18
Nathan Pile
like Like even though he knows the motivation behind their question, he still attempts to answer their question so that he can bring them along.

00:12:32.67
Nathan Pile
So, um you know, that that idea of ah ah how do we do how do we do that

00:12:32.79
Kevin Shock
who Yeah, right, right. ah Right, right. Right.

00:12:43.25
Nathan Pile
or, or God is doing it in this, you know, again, the son of God is doing that in this example, trying to say,

00:12:43.56
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:12:52.22
Nathan Pile
he doesn't, you know Jesus doesn't say, I know what's behind your question, but, but essentially answers the question in such a way that helps them to, to maybe come along in the, in the journey.

00:13:04.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. heat Right. He doesn't, um, he doesn't, he doesn't try to break down their argument. He just, right. he did He goes into a, this is, you know, first of all, the, the way of the way of life in the age of the resurrection is is going to be so drastically different from what we experience here on earth that, um, that, you know, kind of essentially it it renders,

00:13:34.48
Kevin Shock
it renders their hypothetical pointless because they're not even in in the kingdom come.

00:13:43.35
Kevin Shock
Marrying and being given in marriage are not things that are going to happen. um And and this isn't about this also isn't about marriage regarding love. I mean, that's honestly, that's the other thing that just popped into my head. This isn't about a loving marriage. This is about ah whose property we should be

00:14:04.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:14:07.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:14:07.21
Kevin Shock
Cause she, you know, no, what, what, like this is all about the, the hypothetical they send up, they set up is the way that it is in this age.

00:14:07.48
Nathan Pile
Yeah, we didn't even talk about that. Right. We haven't even talked about that.

00:14:17.90
Kevin Shock
So that, uh, economically speaking, this woman is cared for and um, and lacking sons to care for her

00:14:23.11
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:14:29.62
Kevin Shock
She just has to move on to but from brother to brother to brother.

00:14:33.57
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:14:35.99
Kevin Shock
and um but yeah I mean Jesus points out here that the ah through saying this he doesn't say it explicitly but through what he says that that that worry about whose economic responsibility this woman is in the age of the resurrection is a moot question it doesn't no one she's no one's responsibility and and she's everyone's responsibility i'm you know they're all the the resurrected are all caring for one another in the kingdom.

00:15:09.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:15:09.31
Nathan Pile
right

00:15:17.36
Nathan Pile
All right, you want to second time?

00:15:20.48
Kevin Shock
Yes.

00:15:22.98
Nathan Pile
All right.

00:15:26.63
Nathan Pile
Some Sadducees who deny that there's a resurrection came to Jesus and asked, teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies, leaving a widow, but no children, the brother must marry the widow and raise up children for his brother.

00:15:44.16
Nathan Pile
Now there were seven brothers. The first man married a woman and then died childless. The second and then the third brother married her. Eventually, all seven married her and they all died without leaving any children.

00:15:58.72
Nathan Pile
Finally, the woman died too. In the resurrection, whose wife will she be? All seven were married to her. Jesus said to them, People who belong to this age marry and are given in marriage.

00:16:14.76
Nathan Pile
But those who are considered worthy to participate in that age, that is, in the age of the resurrection from the dead, won't marry, nor will they be given in marriage.

00:16:27.05
Nathan Pile
They can no longer die because they are like angels and are God's children since they share in the resurrection. Even Moses demonstrated that the dead are raised in the passage about the burning bush when he speaks of the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

00:16:46.92
Nathan Pile
He isn't the, the God of the dead, but of the living. To him, they are all alive.

00:16:56.92
Nathan Pile
Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:17:07.05
Kevin Shock
I, oh boy, I don't, I really, I really don't know. this is This is a hard question for this text in particular because it's not as though and it's it's this interaction between the Sadducees and Jesus. It's not as though this is a ah text that is explicitly urging us on toward something.

00:17:26.16
Kevin Shock
Um...

00:17:32.25
Kevin Shock
I don't want, I don't want to dwell too much on what we already talked about, but I think, I think part of it is to be open about what the what the age of the resurrection looks like.

00:17:42.03
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:17:42.38
Kevin Shock
um um um I'm getting kind of stuck on thinking about that and thinking about the, ah you know, as we as you were launching into reading this a second time, I was thinking, you know, we had talked just there at the end of the first question about that this was a property matter, this was an economic matter.

00:18:02.96
Kevin Shock
um And thinking about how that's different in

00:18:11.08
Kevin Shock
in imagining someone coming to a pastor or religious leader and asking the question, you know, ah am I going to, am I going to see my beloved spouse again in heaven?

00:18:25.02
Kevin Shock
And, you know, thinking about what's our relationship going to look like? Because certainly if you take, you know, if you look at the 20th chapter of Luke, um you know, a religious leader could say, well, Jesus says you're not going to be married anymore. I'm sure you're going to know each other, but you're not going to be married anymore.

00:18:48.06
Kevin Shock
And it's going to be completely different from how it was here on earth. Like that's not the kind of comforting thing that a pastor should say to somebody else, someone who's grieving.

00:18:54.54
Nathan Pile
was going to say, empathy and compassion is not in the part of that answer. Right.

00:19:00.82
Kevin Shock
no no you're right you're right and and because compassion and empathy are not in the question either uh it's, it's, it's a constant trying to trying to trap him um and um trying to make it a legal matter well there there you go, Nathan, thanks for giving me the answer to my question um

00:19:10.08
Nathan Pile
Right. Sure. Sure.

00:19:16.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Trying to make it a legal matter.

00:19:27.83
Kevin Shock
ah think I think that this text is is reminding me that not everything is a legal matter. not not everything Not everything we talk about in Scripture is a matter of... mean,

00:19:47.31
Kevin Shock
you know it like I mean this isn't what the Sadducees are asking, but there is there's a sense here. I think that it this draws people's minds to...

00:19:59.19
Kevin Shock
ah How do we get into heaven? um You know, like like that kind of stuff, like that kind of legal stuff that we talk about in the church a lot. And I, yeah, this this is a reminder. I think this is just a reminder to me that not everything is a legal question and don't make everything into a legal question.

00:20:21.73
Kevin Shock
um I guess, as I was saying before, that Jesus's parables invite people in. um Jesus's parables are teaching.

00:20:34.69
Kevin Shock
I think we could say that they're teaching tools. But the more I think about it, they're, they're teaching tools in a way that invite people into the way of life, not that they teach people about the way of life.

00:20:50.29
Kevin Shock
They're not for people. They're not to answer specifics about how, you know, how the community should interact with one another or things like that.

00:21:01.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:21:02.98
Kevin Shock
I mean, generally speaking, it might talk about how the community interacts with one another. um But yeah, it's not, but the parables aren't meant to answer legal questions.

00:21:14.79
Nathan Pile
Well, and oftentimes the parables, I think, get at the at the

00:21:23.23
Nathan Pile
critical point where the legal matters break down when you're talking about relationships. Yeah. when we're talking about having love or care or empathy and compassion for someone else, sometimes we're willing to to bend the rules or even to break the rules so that that care and that love occur.

00:21:45.41
Nathan Pile
And the parables seem to,

00:21:50.45
Nathan Pile
what I would consider to be a more human side, you know, a more, um on the more human side to say,

00:21:54.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:21:57.71
Nathan Pile
how do we How do we, instead of having these black and white rules that cause us to say you're in and you're out, the parables seem to kind of come in and and break up those boundaries to say you're, you're, you're a human and and therefore you have value because you're a you're a gift from God.

00:22:18.92
Nathan Pile
And so parables to...

00:22:20.77
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:22:21.72
Nathan Pile
you know and and so those parables seem to um allow there to be some flexibility within the law.

00:22:34.85
Nathan Pile
Whereas a lot of times the law feels you either did it or you, you did, you, you broke, you know, and Jesus kind of comes in and says, um, relate our relationship with God, even though the, the first commandment that are the first, um,

00:22:43.05
Kevin Shock
Right, right. right

00:22:51.81
Nathan Pile
The first Testament is about that law relationship with living in relationship with God through the law. Jesus comes in and kind of says, yes, the law is there to guide us.

00:23:04.17
Nathan Pile
um Yet sometimes we need some flexibility within the law to honor the human that is standing before us.

00:23:18.60
Nathan Pile
And so, yeah.

00:23:21.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like we've gone back to this before that this, um you know, Jesus's famous line from Matthew's gospel.

00:23:34.16
Kevin Shock
This is not, um he doesn't talk in these ways to abolish the law. He, he talks in these ways because he's the fulfillment of the law.

00:23:44.02
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:23:45.03
Kevin Shock
and um And there's a sense that, I can't, I can't speak for Jesus necessarily, but there's a sense that um if it, if, if legal, if legal questions arise, especially about, like, legal questions about are about where we draw the line.

00:24:05.33
Nathan Pile
Mm

00:24:09.95
Kevin Shock
Are they not?

00:24:11.79
Nathan Pile
hmm.

00:24:12.10
Kevin Shock
I mean, a lot of times they are.

00:24:13.90
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:24:13.88
Kevin Shock
So if we're drawing the line, it's about, do you believe in the resurrection? Do you not believe in the resurrection? What's the right thing to do? um If, because that's clearly the point that the Sadducees are trying to make here that, you know, we're, we're trying to trap you in this question because we don't think that there is a resurrection and you do think there is a resurrection.

00:24:37.23
Kevin Shock
Of course, we're going to think that we're right. And we're going to think that you're wrong. So here's, here's a question. for us to try to prove that you're wrong. So whether it's about something like that, whether it's about something like who gets into the kingdom, who gets into heaven and who doesn't, who do we welcome into our community for fellowship and who do we exclude?

00:24:59.25
Kevin Shock
ah You know, there are all kinds, all these legal questions are about drawing a line. And to me, it gets to a point where Jesus almost seems to say in the way that he interacts with people,

00:25:12.80
Kevin Shock
Like I'm, I'm here right in front of you, the fulfillment of the law. And so if you can't figure this stuff out by looking at what I'm doing and by listening to what I'm teaching and, and just by being in my presence, these legal questions aren going to help you.

00:25:29.80
Kevin Shock
Like, like you're not going to figure it out because I answer this one little place about where you draw the line, because I think as much as he does here,

00:25:30.04
Nathan Pile
right

00:25:40.74
Kevin Shock
um The kingdom is not about drawing lines.

00:25:47.55
Kevin Shock
the The kingdom is about learning how to interact with one another, how to live with one another, and um yeah live in relationship.

00:25:53.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Live in relationship. Yeah.

00:25:57.42
Kevin Shock
And so much like he says here, when you know here, here's, here's this question about ah yeah drawing lines when it comes to ah obligations in marriage. Jesus' response is simply, well, marriage isn't even a thing in the resurrection.

00:26:11.61
Kevin Shock
so there's no use talking about this.

00:26:14.30
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:26:16.33
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah. Uh, so anyway, I, I just, I think that I can't even remember how we started going down that way, but I, I, but parables, Jesus is teaching are not, it's, it's not about, it's not about legal questions.

00:26:34.67
Kevin Shock
And, and, and therefore I also think that, I guess that's where we started. I also think that being, um,

00:26:42.81
Kevin Shock
Living well with other people and living in a righteous manner with other people and for people who are in situations like you and I are Nathan being a pastor to somebody else is not about answering their legal questions It's about inviting them into relationship and being in relationship with them and showing them that God is the God of relationship God is the God of the living and

00:27:11.57
Kevin Shock
And to him, they're all alive. We are all alive.

00:27:21.03
Kevin Shock
ah What about you? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:27:25.55
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:27:29.28
Nathan Pile
My answer is very similar to yours. in in that there's the, I think your phrase that you said was an openness to the resurrection. I think God is calling us

00:27:43.22
Nathan Pile
to some understanding of what this life eternal is here. um And again, so I think the word openness is a nice way of understanding of saying that because it wasn't the word I was going to use, but I will use your word, uh, to kind of help explain my there. There's a piece of this, the Jesus is again, as he's, as he's trying to, um answer the question of the Sadducees and invite them in to this kind of relationship with God and with, uh, with the rest of, of, uh, creation.

00:28:23.72
Nathan Pile
um Jesus is is telling us that this, this eternal life is, is a bit more of a mystery, but that there's, the, some of the structures that we've put around the world aren't, aren't limiting factors for God.

00:28:42.94
Nathan Pile
Um, and I think that for us, um,

00:28:49.85
Nathan Pile
can be freeing in that, um

00:28:58.69
Nathan Pile
that it does that that that there's not um

00:29:06.00
Nathan Pile
the black and white, the that that you know this is a big oversimplification of of um the relationship between the First Testament and the Second Testament.

00:29:19.11
Nathan Pile
um But God said, here here's here's a way that that you're to live, and here is the law to that. gives Moses the 10 commandments. um And, and then um another, you know, whatever it is, 613 laws later, we, we, yeah, it's it's over 600.

00:29:36.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I can never remember the number.

00:29:39.40
Nathan Pile
I know that. um um But we, as human beings said, well, the only way that we can live together is by creating Yeah. and we continue to do that in our own country and, and, you know, that we continue to make laws and, and build parameters and so forth.

00:29:51.20
Kevin Shock
Oh.

00:29:58.84
Nathan Pile
Um, But Jesus has comes in and says, you know, this way of of living is missing out on some of the richness of relationship that God also wants you to have. And so being able to, you know, not only is Jesus speaking against the financial system of the day, um the honor-shame system of the day, the...

00:30:27.15
Nathan Pile
the

00:30:29.85
Nathan Pile
the religious law of the day, Jesus saying all of these things are a part of life here. And it's how we've kind of told ourselves this is, this is right living, but eternal life, resurrected life looks differently.

00:30:48.20
Nathan Pile
And, and, and it's because we're not making the rules there. ah

00:30:54.87
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:30:55.88
Nathan Pile
You know, kind of a thing. And so, so again, it's the there's there, there, this passage strikes me in such a way that God's calling us to recognize that eternal life. um This resurrected life is, is different than our, than this world's life.

00:31:13.46
Nathan Pile
um And, and we're called it into it, we're called to um to to leave behind those things that we've considered to be right relationship, but but recognized maybe a resurrected life helps us to recognize that there's that even that law is is flawed and broken because it doesn't lead to true relationship with each other.

00:31:44.82
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:31:45.67
Nathan Pile
so so um So that's my long-winded way of kind of talking similar to what you were what you had shared with yours. but But that's that same idea of Jesus is calling us to this resurrected life, um this way of of of living with God and with each other that is different.

00:32:06.97
Nathan Pile
um And it causes us to put hope in different places.

00:32:14.49
Nathan Pile
Here, in the Sadducees' question, the wife has to hope that the husband or the brother is going to become the next husband. um in In what Jesus is laying out, eternal life is saying that that this resurrected life

00:32:43.45
Nathan Pile
everybody has has their own own value and it's not about hoping that a human response is going to be to make life livable because God has made it so that all life is livable.

00:32:59.46
Nathan Pile
You know, and and it goes on forever. You know that's the what the end of this passage is about. And so,

00:33:05.76
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:33:06.34
Nathan Pile
um kind of a piece. And so this, the...

00:33:12.12
Nathan Pile
the wife isn't is it seeking at the loss of of of her next husband, she's not seeking another husband so that she can live on.

00:33:25.20
Nathan Pile
Because in resurrected life, she lives on because of God.

00:33:29.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:33:30.12
Nathan Pile
It's forever.

00:33:33.67
Nathan Pile
um Not because of who her husband is, but because of who God is, is why she lives. And that's a hope that we hold on to still today, right?

00:33:44.22
Nathan Pile
That's a hope that we

00:33:48.71
Nathan Pile
comfort ourselves with at the loss of a loved one to say our loved one lives on and one day we'll be reunited forever.

00:33:59.16
Kevin Shock
Sure. Yeah.

00:34:00.58
Nathan Pile
Kind a thing, so.

00:34:01.78
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep.

00:34:05.78
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. um ah When you were talking about laws, ah it just got me thinking that like, that you know, this is a people, people had laws back, you know, when um the Israelites were,

00:34:24.14
Kevin Shock
Leaving Egypt and you know Moses got the law handed to him, but that was also it was also so the people could become the fulfillment of the law That God gave them instruction and how to do that ah You know, we believe that Jesus has come as the fulfillment of the law But that doesn't make the law null and void

00:34:51.69
Kevin Shock
what it means is that it fulfills, i'm I'm getting into deep weeds here, I feel like, just because I don't want to, I don't want us to say anything that's going to make it sound like, well, the law doesn't matter anymore. and it and, and, and And I see how it could sound like that when I say that answering legal questions doesn't, but it's, this is about adopting a way of life.

00:35:14.35
Kevin Shock
And it's not about, it's not about drawing lines.

00:35:15.65
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:35:18.42
Kevin Shock
And, and I think that the, I think that the original intention of the law that was handed down to Moses from God was about adopting a way of life as well. I mean, I think that's that was the whole point of it.

00:35:31.02
Kevin Shock
um and and we And we saw and continue to see how impossible it is for human beings to adopt that way of life through you know through written instruction or verbal instruction because we get so we get so wrapped up in, well, what's right and what's wrong?

00:35:55.96
Kevin Shock
And and and what you know ah in these drawing of lines, I still think that God desires all humankind to be the fulfillment of the law, um but not in the way that it was whenever Moses was handed the commandments. And i think that Jesus has shown us the way to live and to love and has empowered us to do that in his death and resurrection. um Yeah,

00:36:26.50
Kevin Shock
I just think, I think legal questions are fine in some, in some contexts, but if it's, if it's about, if it's, if it comes down to being about excluding others or figuring out how am I right what where someone else is wrong,

00:36:44.88
Kevin Shock
I, I think we're missing the point entirely. I think that's what I was trying to say before.

00:36:52.03
Nathan Pile
No, I appreciate that clarification because I, as we talked about the law, we you've said it once or twice that Jesus is the fulfillment of that law. But Jesus is taking that law and living it out in a way that we can see the love side of the law.

00:37:06.87
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:37:07.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:37:08.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:11.92
Kevin Shock
I did for a second then go and look online because I was curious about the the the number of mitzvot of commandments. And it is 613.

00:37:26.27
Kevin Shock
I mean, that's the tradition. You were right about that. Yeah. Yeah. And then I also encountered like an article that was talking about like, okay, but which ones are applicable to daily life now?

00:37:38.56
Kevin Shock
Because so many of those commandments are about temple worship specifically around the, you know, the, the temple that existed at that time.

00:37:49.39
Kevin Shock
um

00:37:49.74
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

00:37:50.71
Kevin Shock
and, um, yeah, so it I, I just very briefly skimmed a completely legalistic article about which ones people have to, ah have to observe and which ones they don't have to observe. And in the tradition of 613, there's the number of positive commandments, the do's and the, and the number of negative commandments, the don'ts.

00:38:17.42
Kevin Shock
um

00:38:18.19
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:38:18.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And it like, it, it just, I mean, I think, I think it's, I think all that stuff is interesting to know, but if you're, if, if you're interested in knowing it with the intent of, well, this is how I'm going to make my way into heaven.

00:38:30.96
Kevin Shock
I, again, we're missing the point.

00:38:32.07
Nathan Pile
Right. Right. Right. Yep.

00:38:36.48
Kevin Shock
Uh, yeah.

00:38:37.79
Nathan Pile
I've done all of the do's. you know how many How many of the parables do we hear or stories of Jesus' time the in the Gospels that we hear of?

00:38:40.37
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:38:49.52
Nathan Pile
I've done all of this. Now what? yeah The do's. Interesting than the do's and the don'ts. I hadn't heard that. So that's an interesting way of breaking up the law.

00:39:04.72
Kevin Shock
no Yeah, yeah.

00:39:10.17
Kevin Shock
All right, should we look at it a third time?

00:39:12.43
Nathan Pile
Let's do it.

00:39:14.25
Kevin Shock
Okay, from Luke chapter 20. Some Sadducees who deny that there's a resurrection came to Jesus and asked, Teacher, Moses wrote for us that if a man's brother dies leaving a widow but no children, the brother must marry the widow and raise up children for his brother.

00:39:32.01
Kevin Shock
Now there were seven brothers. The first man married a woman and then died childless. The second and then the third brother married her. Eventually all seven married her and they all died without leaving any children.

00:39:44.16
Kevin Shock
Finally, the woman died too. In the resurrection, whose wife will she be? All seven were married to her. Jesus said to them, people who belong to this age marry and are given in marriage.

00:39:55.90
Kevin Shock
But those who are considered worthy to participate in that age, that is the age of the resurrection from the dead, won't marry nor will they be given in marriage. They can no longer die because they are like angels.

00:40:07.72
Kevin Shock
and are God's children since they share in the resurrection. Even Moses demonstrated that the dead are raised in the passage about the burning bush, when he speaks of the Lord as the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

00:40:21.84
Kevin Shock
He isn't the God of the dead, but of the living. To him, they are all alive.

00:40:29.94
Kevin Shock
Nathan, ah how do those who have died stay alive to you?

00:40:37.15
Nathan Pile
Um, well, this plays out in a couple of different ways, um,

00:40:45.49
Nathan Pile
for me in, in life in general. So, um, I think in my own, and you know, just living in life, um, obviously my own memory is one of the ways that those who are alive stay or those who are dead stay alive in me.

00:41:04.13
Nathan Pile
Um, is the things that they taught me, the experiences that we shared, they've become ah part of who I am. um And and that that stretches then also to the rest of family and friends who were also marked with them. And so there are many times when I have a family reunion

00:41:27.31
Nathan Pile
that like you're like, oh, this is, it's not the same without the family member that's most recently passed away.

00:41:41.75
Nathan Pile
But it's still because of that individual has left their mark on all of us. There's a little bit of that person that's with us when we gather.

00:41:54.40
Nathan Pile
And then that goes to the third place that this all connects for me, which is the community of faith. And we have,

00:42:06.76
Nathan Pile
rituals that are a part of reminding me of that um and so um and and so one of those would be communion right the when we gather around that table we're celebrating that those who have died are yet also at the table with us how we you know again this is that part of of um

00:42:12.25
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:42:29.40
Kevin Shock
the

00:42:34.39
Nathan Pile
the infinite singularity that is God, that we don't understand how God makes all of that happen. That part of the, that mystery part, part of this, but, but the promise is that they're sitting at the table with us, you know, every Sunday that we gather at the table, um, as a community of faith.

00:42:51.64
Nathan Pile
And because of that, that then feeds my memory ah of my loved one and of my a family gathering in reunion,

00:43:04.22
Nathan Pile
So there's three three ways that this gets lived out in my life. um But my faith in God, that promise of eternal life, um

00:43:17.26
Nathan Pile
is so powerful that as I experience it you know from Sunday to Sunday or any other time that I I'm, I gather at the holy table with God's people, I, I am reminded

00:43:33.32
Nathan Pile
that I also sit with my my grandparents and you know friends from high school or college that have passed away, um that there those that that promise connects me to them.

00:43:50.98
Nathan Pile
And because of that, and because of the family that I live in, that I'm a part of, the the my personal memory and our family memory of those individuals and friends helps helps those individuals to be alive to me.

00:44:15.63
Nathan Pile
That promise of a resurrected life and end of eternal life um

00:44:23.13
Nathan Pile
in scripture, in the gift of um God claiming me to be a child of God at at baptism, you know those you know those those two sacraments and the gift of of of Scripture, all of that together, is all it's all held together by that promise that God makes us that of eternal life, of of resurrected life.

00:44:53.59
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:44:55.35
Nathan Pile
And so um

00:44:58.92
Nathan Pile
I probably, the again, the, the thing that's most tangible is the meal. And it's and being being in and in close friend or family community that reminds me of...

00:45:19.09
Nathan Pile
of that um or it's looking at pictures and seeing ah loved one and and and remembering that moment when the picture was taken or the experiences that we had together.

00:45:35.95
Nathan Pile
But all of that to me is um

00:45:43.00
Nathan Pile
the source of all of that. It comes from God, if that makes sense.

00:45:48.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:51.14
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? How do those who have died stay alive to you?

00:45:58.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I'm ah and not sure that I like the question anymore, but I think that you answered it in ah in a good positive way. um Because it's not about... Well, because I think it the at the base of the question,

00:46:16.00
Kevin Shock
or or the the fallacy in the question is that um these people are alive.

00:46:22.63
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:46:23.85
Kevin Shock
they're they're They're alive to God. so So us keeping them alive is not, um is legalistically speaking, is not the proper way to think about it. um so i So I appreciate that you, the way that you talked, that these are through ritual,

00:46:45.73
Kevin Shock
and, and, you know, both, both church and familial ritual, I think, um, you're reminded that these people do live on.

00:46:57.30
Nathan Pile
ah

00:46:58.10
Kevin Shock
And, um, and I think, so maybe that's the better, um, how, uh, you know, how do we, not just how do we remember them, but how do we, how do we recall that they, they remain alive to God?

00:47:11.11
Kevin Shock
They're alive.

00:47:11.61
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:47:12.82
Kevin Shock
Um, and, uh, And I think that, um I mean, I think I agree with you. I think that there are, the I get a great sense of that whenever we are gathered at the communion table.

00:47:28.14
Kevin Shock
um Not every time, but certainly many times.

00:47:30.43
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure. Yeah.

00:47:32.16
Kevin Shock
um i I get a sense of that um whenever we're having conversation about these people. and And whenever we remember or notice,

00:47:46.81
Kevin Shock
that these people have had an impact on our life. um And I think that i'm

00:47:58.04
Kevin Shock
I'm getting to the age where I'm starting to see things about myself that are like, oh, I know who that comes from.

00:48:05.61
Nathan Pile
Mmmm. Yeah. Yeah

00:48:08.95
Kevin Shock
and

00:48:10.40
Kevin Shock
And though I'm a unique person, I bear the marks of a lot of people who came before me. And, um, and I'm sure that they, they too bear the characteristics of a lot of people who came before them.

00:48:24.95
Kevin Shock
Um, so in that way, they also are alive. Um, oh yeah, yeah. I,

00:48:42.52
Kevin Shock
yeah, I think that, um,

00:48:46.79
Kevin Shock
Hmm. I lost my train of thought there. I, yeah, I, I just, I think that there are, there are ways that these people remain alive to us. Um, and I, and I'm, guess I'm trying to also think of like, why, why wouldn't they remain alive to us? And maybe it's because we, we're not fully free of the shroud of death yet.

00:49:07.12
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:49:07.15
Kevin Shock
Um, it's, it's a different, it's a different sense of, uh, someone, someone being alive to us.

00:49:08.28
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:49:16.35
Kevin Shock
Um, You know, when, when we can pick up the telephone and give them a call and talk to them, that's, that's one way.

00:49:22.53
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:49:23.52
Kevin Shock
But then when we lose that ability, um, there are other ways that we,

00:49:33.85
Kevin Shock
we remember, we remember not only how they did live, but we remember that they, so they continue to live on.

00:49:43.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:49:44.49
Nathan Pile
Well, and and and um I didn't say it this way, but your reflection kind of make me think of it this way, in that those memories and those family gathering reunions, just like the ritual, are God's gifts to us, reminding us that they still live.

00:50:08.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:50:09.92
Nathan Pile
you know, I, you know, I kind of take, I said, looking at the picture, you know, and and in my own head was thinking about that, that I'm reflecting on that moment.

00:50:11.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:50:18.45
Nathan Pile
Sure. um But who's to say God's not in the middle of that moment, sparking that, that, that time. And the same with, with reunion and, and I automatically

00:50:28.53
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:50:33.10
Nathan Pile
give

00:50:37.06
Nathan Pile
god the acknowledgement that God has gifted us the sacrament of Holy Communion and the gifts that come through that.

00:50:42.68
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:50:46.10
Nathan Pile
um But if we all live with God, the idea of oh remembering our ancestors

00:51:01.55
Nathan Pile
can also be you know gifted of God, reminding us

00:51:08.16
Nathan Pile
that this resurrected life is a thing and it's,

00:51:13.87
Nathan Pile
you know, I, in my humanness, it's still sad to me because I've lost them here.

00:51:21.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:22.42
Nathan Pile
But that's that grasp of death that you talk about, that we still are are trapped in that at times.

00:51:28.47
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah

00:51:34.17
Nathan Pile
And so it is... it is it is It is rare for me to think back on my friends and family that have passed away that at the end of the thought,

00:51:51.96
Nathan Pile
I still, I, you know there and a gift of the spirit makes me feel better because of that gift of a resurrected life as opposed to being even more so down in the dumps.

00:52:09.47
Nathan Pile
if that makes any sense.

00:52:11.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:52:12.78
Nathan Pile
so

00:52:14.42
Kevin Shock
yeah something um

00:52:18.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah, something that you have me thinking about that i I hadn't even really thought about going into this question, but um is in front of me now, is that um the other thinking about this in the other direction, and that is not the loss of our ancestors, but the loss of our descendants.

00:52:39.11
Kevin Shock
And um ah people people known to me recently experienced a stillbirth in their family

00:52:40.66
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:52:49.90
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:52:50.14
Kevin Shock
and at at ah at a late stage in the pregnancy. So this was, and and it was something that was not, um it was unexpected, um natural, but unexpected.

00:52:55.54
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:53:05.99
Kevin Shock
And so in talking to them about how they, you know, the things that were important to them for how they remember this loved one that they didn't really even have the chance to get to know, um but they did have the chance to,

00:53:19.68
Nathan Pile
Now, sure.

00:53:24.80
Kevin Shock
there ah I've learned through this through them that there are some great ministries out there that serve people who are dealing with that with that tragedy.

00:53:37.84
Kevin Shock
And the way that they offer keepsakes and memories of this little one who never had a chance to grow outside the womb.

00:53:48.85
Kevin Shock
um

00:53:49.25
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:53:50.67
Kevin Shock
But also... um It was really, it's really important to these parents that their, that their child is named.

00:54:01.32
Kevin Shock
And not, not named, not just named by them, but that people continue to talk about this child and, and make a promise that when they do, when they think about her, they'll say her name and they will tell the parents that they,

00:54:23.03
Kevin Shock
remember her though or recall her I don't, I don't know what and know what the correct word is there um but um yeah so that's ah yeah acknowledge yeah yeah yeah um

00:54:28.23
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:54:34.16
Nathan Pile
Acknowledge, maybe. Acknowledge.

00:54:40.56
Kevin Shock
and and and talking about her as though she is still present though she's not present within bodily but she she remains alive in God yeah yeah

00:54:46.31
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:54:53.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah, i mean I mean, really just some you know ah heartbreaking but also fascinating stuff about what thinking about how human beings can tap into the life that God gives us, and especially in the face of death.

00:55:09.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:55:10.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:55:16.56
Kevin Shock
So anyway, but yeah, that's, that's a, it's another, certainly, I mean, I think, yeah, I think we've, we've all know of someone who's had an experience of someone whose life has not come entirely to fruition.

00:55:34.80
Kevin Shock
Maybe not that young, but you know, ah a child who has died in a family or, or, or a young adult who has, who has died for one reason or another.

00:55:35.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah. no

00:55:45.29
Kevin Shock
um where there are always these, I guess, on maybe unrealized hopes for a person. And and and here, and i don't think I don't think it's necessarily, I don't know if it's Jesus's intention or not, but here we learn that this is all, all these people remain alive.

00:56:13.47
Kevin Shock
And um, and, and God, God is the one who's giving them life as God gives us life. Yeah.

00:56:20.60
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:56:29.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, um I appreciate you

00:56:37.24
Nathan Pile
expanding our understanding of not just ancestors, but also descendants.

00:56:44.87
Nathan Pile
Because that does put a bit of a different... It makes it a bigger picture for us to consider and to be talking about, thinking about.

00:56:52.55
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:56:52.75
Nathan Pile
And that's, that's who God is.

00:56:54.95
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:56:56.92
Nathan Pile
You know, God has already thought about ancestors and descendants for us. The source of life has has already considered those pieces and said,

00:57:02.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

00:57:11.11
Nathan Pile
life is theirs forever.

00:57:14.42
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Yeah. We think about the terminology in scripture, like God of the generations or, or the, the, the miraculous things that God does from generation to generation.

00:57:28.94
Kevin Shock
Those generational lines are drawn for our sake. Um, I mean, you know, they're like, they're, they're natural lines that are drawn, but, but, um,

00:57:42.06
Kevin Shock
to God, these, these people are all just people. They all exist at the same time, I guess. I don't, I don't know. There's some kind of, some kind of time constraint that we're, or time expansion that we don't understand.

00:57:48.55
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:53.44
Kevin Shock
And I, and I think about people like the ones who just lost this baby and and they didn't ask this question of me, but, but I, I know that other people have raised the question in one way or another with me and like, how, how, what's your relationship going to be like with, in the resurrection with these people?

00:58:10.90
Kevin Shock
but you know with a baby that never grew. And ah, I think those are all I think those are all temporal human limitations that we're putting on the relationship that God can bring.

00:58:24.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

00:58:25.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:58:26.07
Nathan Pile
Yeah, absolutely.

00:58:30.04
Kevin Shock
that That child exists as a full-fledged person and God knows

00:58:34.16
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:58:38.21
Kevin Shock
her and God knows her family and yeah.

00:58:43.66
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:58:43.66
Kevin Shock
And so, and so God will make, make all things known, I guess, is the way that I would say it.

00:58:48.62
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:53.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah, in God's own way. Again, that mysterious part that we can't figure out or

00:58:58.92
Kevin Shock
Can't figure it out now.

00:59:06.05
Nathan Pile
and will be the way that God intends it to be.

00:59:09.45
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:59:10.44
Nathan Pile
And and will be before us. and And because God is God, we will also know.

00:59:17.18
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. hmm. Yeah. Yeah. All the all the legal questions in the world won't answer it for us, but but God, God will answer it for us. Yeah.

00:59:27.69
Nathan Pile
But that mom and dad, when resurrected life has occurred for them,

00:59:39.16
Nathan Pile
they'll know they're a descendant.

00:59:43.62
Kevin Shock
They will. Yeah, they'll know their child. Yeah.

00:59:46.32
Nathan Pile
And that brings a tear to my eye now, not even understanding how God will do that. But knowing what scripture tells us about who God is, I absolutely trust that, that's, that's, that's going to be the the state of things.

00:59:58.09
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yeah.

01:00:04.52
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:13.32
Nathan Pile
Well, and anything else, my friend?

01:00:18.69
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. Why don't you give us those additional texts?

01:00:20.70
Nathan Pile
We have some additional texts then to look at here. ah Job 19, verse 23 to 27a. I know that my Redeemer lives and I shall see God.

01:00:33.99
Nathan Pile
Again, with this, our theme here of

01:00:39.96
Nathan Pile
the gifts that are ah of God and for us from God. Psalm 17, 1 to ah Verses 1 to 9, keep me as the apple of your eye, hide me under the shadow of your wings.

01:00:56.80
Nathan Pile
2 Thessalonians 2, verses 1 to 5, and verses 13 to 17, the coming of the Lord Jesus. And then we have some additional texts, semi-continuous texts.

01:01:13.96
Nathan Pile
Haggai, chapter 1. Haggai, not Haggai, Haggai. um Chapter 1, verse 15b to chapter 2, verse 9, the Lord promises to restore Judah to prosperity.

01:01:30.95
Nathan Pile
Psalm 145, verses 1 through 5 and 17 through 21, great is the Lord and greatly to be praised. And Psalm 98, righteousness the world.

01:01:42.21
Nathan Pile
in righteousness will the lord judge the world

01:01:47.89
Nathan Pile
Uh, as always, Kevin, um, I appreciate your reflections and how it helps usher in the wind of change that God brought to my day.

01:01:59.58
Nathan Pile
Um, uh, thanks for the conversation.

01:01:59.63
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

01:02:03.58
Nathan Pile
And, um, uh, though I, I am, um,

01:02:12.25
Nathan Pile
reflective now of of those who have come before us um or have have uh died during our lifetime um there's also a a sense of um hope of that idea that they live in the best place of all in god's arms and and that we too

01:02:38.38
Nathan Pile
will our are invited to that place.

01:02:41.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:02:43.69
Nathan Pile
So we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:02:48.22
Kevin Shock
And peace.