Episode 57: Luke 23:33-43

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you seek Jesus’ kingdom?

Additional texts:

Jeremiah 23:1-6

Psalm 46

Colossians 1:11-20

Jeremiah 23:1-6

Luke 1:68-79

Transcript

00:00:01.97
Nathan Pile
Welcome back, everyone. It's good to be together. um Kevin and I are here with the 57th episode of season three.

00:00:14.88
Nathan Pile
This is the end, right, Kevin? The end of the year.

00:00:17.78
Kevin Shock
This is our, this would be our final episode for season three. That's correct. But as far as, as far as I know, we're all planning a season four.

00:00:22.58
Nathan Pile
So um

00:00:26.03
Kevin Shock
So

00:00:26.39
Nathan Pile
we are we are planning season four. There's no concerns there. I would just like for posterity reasons to say, hold up and lift up, but I'm still 49 at the end of the year.

00:00:37.91
Nathan Pile
Um, so my friend though, who I'm with 50, he's a 50 year old man

00:00:39.39
Kevin Shock
yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. What, what wait okay so this no you're right the we're we're gonna have an early advent this year a little bit early right so you'll yeah you'll still be 49 for a little while here

00:00:44.64
Nathan Pile
um

00:00:56.82
Nathan Pile
So not only am I 49, but you just admitted in a recording that I'm right. So this is a really good day. Starting out great for me. so

00:01:07.34
Kevin Shock
ah

00:01:07.40
Nathan Pile
um

00:01:08.05
Kevin Shock
maybe maybe we can have our production crew edit this part out um Yeah, but ah as of the drop of this, you're less than two weeks away from 50, buddy. I just want, I just want to make sure you know that, you're aware of that.

00:01:22.70
Kevin Shock
ah

00:01:22.69
Nathan Pile
I am, but I'm still 49 at the, at, at church year, at the end of the church year, I'm still 49.

00:01:26.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah, you are. Yeah,

00:01:30.60
Nathan Pile
And, um, and um And I'm right. So I got a lot going for me today. I'm feeling good.

00:01:39.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah, you too.

00:01:39.92
Nathan Pile
that don't know what we're going to talk about.

00:01:40.35
Kevin Shock
eight

00:01:41.80
Nathan Pile
I'll be honest, ah folks, but we're glad to be together and to um ah to Tend our own spirits a bit um as a younger man to an older man.

00:01:52.59
Nathan Pile
um That's what we're going to, you know, that's, you know, I'm looking forward to getting some sage advice. um from my my colleague here, my friend.

00:02:04.41
Nathan Pile
So we're going look at Luke, the 23rd chapter, verses 33 to 43, um The translation Kevin and are going to use is the NRSV updated edition, the UE, you might say.

00:02:22.47
Nathan Pile
um That's what the cool kids call it, the UE.

00:02:23.03
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:02:25.61
Nathan Pile
ah And um we're going to look at three questions. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how do you seek ah Jesus's kingdom?

00:02:38.17
Nathan Pile
are the Are three questions that we'll... we'll use as a way to dig into scripture today. um Kevin, is there anything that we need to tell them about season four?

00:02:54.14
Kevin Shock
I don't think so, because you and I have barely talked about season four at this point, where it is coming because of travel schedules and such.

00:02:58.74
Nathan Pile
It's coming. It is coming folks. Yeah.

00:03:03.04
Kevin Shock
Nathan and I are recording this. ah we're um We're almost a month out from a month before when this is going to drop. So, um yes, there will be a season four, though, however.

00:03:13.94
Nathan Pile
It is. I do, I will take a moment though and say, a thank you to those who listen and engage with us both in person when when we're with you, wherever we might come our paths across, but also um for your, your emails and and other ways that we kind of talk about things, talk about the scripture stuff that we're that we talk about.

00:03:14.65
Kevin Shock
That is the plan.

00:03:40.75
Nathan Pile
So ah to imagine that

00:03:42.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:03:43.19
Nathan Pile
people have listened to 160 plus of these um episodes. um Like that's a, like we should have a t-shirt or something.

00:03:55.38
Nathan Pile
Like you've done it.

00:03:56.43
Kevin Shock
Gosh, don't make any promises you can't keep.

00:03:58.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah, that's true. We're not, we're sorry. We're not making t-shirts. We're not, we're not creative enough to do that, but not yet.

00:04:03.61
Kevin Shock
yeah Well, not yet. Um,

00:04:06.32
Nathan Pile
you Right. So, but, or like a coffee mug, a good coffee mug of,

00:04:10.80
Kevin Shock
I have enough of those too.

00:04:11.86
Nathan Pile
I've done it. I've done it.

00:04:14.16
Kevin Shock
I've done it.

00:04:14.30
Nathan Pile
163, three seasons.

00:04:15.31
Kevin Shock
Well.

00:04:16.34
Nathan Pile
Because technically we we will have, now we haven't covered all of the scriptures, but we've completed a three-year cycle of the lectionary on this podcast.

00:04:27.29
Kevin Shock
Yes. We, as of, as of this episode, we'll have, yes.

00:04:28.47
Nathan Pile
with with this With this recording, which that's pretty significant.

00:04:31.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. No, it is significant. You're right. You're right.

00:04:34.70
Nathan Pile
Pretty significant.

00:04:34.90
Kevin Shock
and um And the good news is we have you know we only pick one biblical text for each ah for each week. So we still have...

00:04:44.52
Nathan Pile
Six years to go to cover all of them And then you get into the semi-continuous stuff. um But...

00:04:49.59
Kevin Shock
Well, right, and that's not even counting the Psalms. No, I mean, we could we could easily pull out 12 seasons of ah and and not hit the same...

00:04:55.97
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:04:57.70
Kevin Shock
Although we've already hit the same text twice because sometimes they show up um more than once in the lectionary.

00:05:03.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's with specific celebrations.

00:05:05.75
Kevin Shock
ah In fact, today, I'm not sure that this isn't a text that we haven't already covered as well, um because this is a this is a crucifix this is the crucifixion, part of the crucifixion text from Luke's gospel.

00:05:12.57
Nathan Pile
Oh, look at that.

00:05:20.25
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:05:20.74
Kevin Shock
um and And the reason we're talking about that is because this is the This Sunday, this week, is ah what some traditions call the reign of Christ or Christ the King.

00:05:34.73
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:05:34.90
Kevin Shock
um And well ah that will become more apparent as to... Well, it's a it's a it it's a triumphant text, but it's also ah it's triumphant because this is where Jesus shows how fully committed he is to God and to humanity.

00:05:51.59
Kevin Shock
um Before we get into that, though...

00:05:57.33
Kevin Shock
Two things. We're already six minutes in. ah Two things. One,

00:06:02.99
Nathan Pile
Sorry that you haven't gotten to why you've started to listen, but we're going to take some more time.

00:06:03.08
Kevin Shock
ah

00:06:05.87
Kevin Shock
there may there there may be someone out there in our listening community who knows how to make t-shirts easily. um

00:06:19.24
Kevin Shock
And if so, you you could get in contact with us. ah I can't make any promises, but I'd, I'd be interested to hear. Um, and, and I'm not talking like, I don't want someone who says like, oh, you can just go on this website. Well, I, I mean, I know we can do that. Like we can figure that out, but, but someone who like knows legitimately how to make like screen printed t-shirts or something.

00:06:44.92
Nathan Pile
Well, and Kevin and I are such that we would want to use a local, a local, print a local.

00:06:45.22
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:06:49.15
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Yeah, that would that would that would be our preference. But so it's not, it's not something we need. But since Nathan brought it up, I was just curious because we do have ah some you know we have a group of listeners on here.

00:07:01.68
Kevin Shock
um The other thing is that one of our listeners, Sam, asked me in an email. um I'm not going to remember exactly what she asked, but it was something along the lines of like,

00:07:10.31
Nathan Pile
the

00:07:14.08
Kevin Shock
how listeners can help promote the podcast or, or spread it to more listeners. I think the best way to do that is to just share it with somebody else.

00:07:19.78
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

00:07:24.58
Kevin Shock
Just tell somebody else that you think that they would enjoy it. And maybe even, um, so if this is a friend or a family member of yours, maybe, maybe you have the opportunity to get together to talk about it.

00:07:39.26
Kevin Shock
Or if you don't, ah You both listen independently and then share your thoughts with each other. um I think, you know, it in our big information age, word of mouth is still the best way to spread information and to share good things with each other.

00:07:54.68
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. If you value it and you think that they would value it, it would be worth having you know, and then it probably gives you an excuse to say, let's grab coffee once a week.

00:07:57.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:08:05.23
Kevin Shock
That's right.

00:08:05.19
Nathan Pile
You know, like what would be better than to share a cup of coffee or tea or maybe milkshakes, maybe you're a milkshake people.

00:08:05.97
Kevin Shock
That's right. Yeah. Right.

00:08:15.45
Nathan Pile
I don't, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to say that you have to be coffee people because I'm not a coffee person.

00:08:15.62
Kevin Shock
I mean, that wouldn't be bad.

00:08:19.79
Nathan Pile
So, um, but like milkshakes, you do.

00:08:21.25
Kevin Shock
Oh, man. now I'm, Now I'm really in the mood for an affogato, which is ice cream in espresso.

00:08:28.62
Nathan Pile
I don't even, what, what is an affogato? so It sounds like an avocado.

00:08:32.65
Kevin Shock
it's coffee and ice cream. ice cream in espresso so it's coffee and ice cream

00:08:41.12
Nathan Pile
Oh, I would not have gone there.

00:08:41.88
Kevin Shock
what

00:08:42.56
Nathan Pile
I was like thinking it was like an avocado in a coffee somehow.

00:08:46.45
Kevin Shock
No, affogato, not avocado.

00:08:46.91
Nathan Pile
And that would, off-o.

00:08:51.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah. But anyway, Nathan's really turned my mind to

00:08:56.05
Nathan Pile
You're not getting those nine backs, those nine minutes back, people. Sorry.

00:09:00.73
Kevin Shock
me. Okay. Here's some information about your host. ah Well, right. No, if you take, if you take, me make, now you have an excuse to listen with a friend or get together with a friend.

00:09:11.86
Nathan Pile
right.

00:09:12.37
Kevin Shock
the, that's the glory of this for me and Nathan is that we recording this, we have the excuse to get together and have conversation about all kinds of things.

00:09:12.56
Nathan Pile
That's true.

00:09:19.97
Nathan Pile
We do.

00:09:21.74
Kevin Shock
You wouldn't believe the things that Nathan has asked me about this morning here ah before. I mean, he, he really, Nathan is such a good friend. I don't say that enough, but he is, he is,

00:09:30.06
Nathan Pile
uh younger younger friend such a younger good younger friend um

00:09:33.72
Kevin Shock
Well, okay, fine, whatever. But Nathan, Nathan really cares about ah the people who are in front of him, and I appreciate that about him.

00:09:40.84
Nathan Pile
I do, I ah do, I do

00:09:43.46
Kevin Shock
Here's some information, aside from that, about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, one of us significantly older than the other one, college and seminary educated.

00:09:57.61
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:10:09.71
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another, so we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

00:10:21.80
Kevin Shock
And as Nathan said, this is from Luke, the 23rd chapter, verses 33 to 43, New Revised Standard Version, updated edition. When they came to the place that is called the Skull, they crucified Jesus there with the criminals, one on his right and one on his left.

00:10:40.12
Kevin Shock
Then Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. And they cast lots to divide his clothing. And the people stood by watching, but the leaders scoffed at him, saying, He saved others.

00:10:52.29
Kevin Shock
Let him save himself if he is the Messiah of God, his chosen one. The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine and saying, If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.

00:11:04.77
Kevin Shock
There was also an inscription over him, This is the king of the Jews. One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, Are you not the Messiah?

00:11:15.64
Kevin Shock
Save yourself and us. But the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds.

00:11:29.91
Kevin Shock
But this man has done nothing wrong. Then he said, Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom. He replied, truly, I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.

00:11:44.19
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group or another person, you can pause the podcast and ask each other the questions on your own. Nathan, what word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:11:57.10
Nathan Pile
Um, uh, because of the edition that we're reading here, I have, uh, I got, I got stuck on 34 because it has the double brackets around it. Um, which, um, is a sign for us that it's not, this sentence isn't in all of the ancient translations.

00:12:08.28
Kevin Shock
ah

00:12:19.59
Nathan Pile
So some of them have it and some of them do not. um And so the question, and I'm sure if i we dug into this a little bit more, we could figure out which of the ancient translations have it and which ones don't.

00:12:35.74
Nathan Pile
And then from there um from there, we could make a decision of which one we think is, like, did this get added or did it get taken from the passage?

00:12:49.53
Nathan Pile
Most typically it gets added from. but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been taken away. um

00:12:59.20
Nathan Pile
And so, but I got, I, my thought vortex took me to, so why would we, why would an editor have put this in or taken it out of the passage itself?

00:13:11.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:13:13.12
Nathan Pile
And so that's where, that's kind of where I got fascinated as you were reading this again, you're right. This is a familiar passage to us. We do, um, we do hear that we do hear this, um, uh, sometime in the last three years, we've heard this before. So, um, uh, during Palm Sunday, during, um,

00:13:36.74
Nathan Pile
holy week uh Good Friday, um, we would, we'll have um traipsed through this passage the but thinking about what does this what is this sentence again from the editor

00:13:38.72
Kevin Shock
Mhm, yeah

00:13:52.05
Nathan Pile
um

00:13:55.17
Nathan Pile
why do they want it in or why do they not want it in um

00:14:01.59
Nathan Pile
in this passage. And so again, you know, there's all kinds of places that my own head kind of takes me in that, but, but this sentence is the, is the thing that kind of caught my attention just to kind of, again, the fascination for me, again, I'd like, I like the history of our, of our, of our scriptures and, um, and maybe this drives people nuts that, that there's things in here that we have different, different old,

00:14:30.18
Nathan Pile
um ancient texts that, that aren't the same and that bothers people maybe.

00:14:38.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:14:39.52
Nathan Pile
Um, but to me, I think it's a part of, I guess, you know, I guess that's part of the heritage of our, of our scripture that I love is that there are these different, um,

00:14:55.06
Nathan Pile
these different authorities that, And, and, um, and so, again, it's, it's been left in here because the committee as a whole, who, who are really smart, educated people that spend a lot of time looking at this kind of stuff, they definitively couldn't make a decision if it should be out.

00:14:56.99
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:15:17.47
Nathan Pile
Um, so they leave it in here and put these brackets around it. Um, kind of a thing. And so it allows us as we've talked in other times, it allows us as the reader to engage with these words and, and that it, that it wells up in us one way or the other, whatever, you know, whatever that, whatever it does in us, um, as we wrestle with scripture, uh, and, and the language that's here. And so again, you know,

00:15:51.16
Nathan Pile
Cases for why it's in here, it shows us um that even in even in death, Jesus sets an example that is that would be hard to match.

00:16:03.26
Nathan Pile
That in, in our own death, are we able to forgive those who have done us wrong in the moment? um

00:16:14.08
Nathan Pile
And there there are times that we hear stories about individuals that are able to make those Testaments, um, for me, it would be hard. I would think if, if, if I feel like people are killing me, it would be hard for me to utter the words, I forgive you.

00:16:29.34
Nathan Pile
Um, in the, in, in the moment when I'm like, I'd really like to live, um, kind of a thing.

00:16:30.17
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:16:37.20
Nathan Pile
So, so yeah, that's where my, um, my head got caught up in the, in the history and the, and the thinking about what, what, um,

00:16:50.90
Nathan Pile
you know why it's here, why why it's been, why would have, why is it in the, in the text and why would it might, why might it be removed from the text?

00:17:01.47
Nathan Pile
Oftentimes the, the reason people would remove it from texts is that they, that, that the one of the common um analysis is, does it make it more complicated?

00:17:15.05
Nathan Pile
because most typically the the thought is that the older trends, the oldest authorities, um it was a much more basic

00:17:28.27
Nathan Pile
text, telling of the story here.

00:17:28.72
Kevin Shock
telling of the story.

00:17:33.57
Nathan Pile
So I think I've tried to talk about all of the different ways of that now that I've, I've kind of ah realized that when I started, I was just kind of talking and reflecting about it, but then

00:17:34.20
Kevin Shock
I didn't, I didn't,

00:17:43.12
Nathan Pile
If you're not as familiar with some of this history and literary criticism, as they call it, I tried to give you some of that now so that you at least understand what what what I was alluding to earlier.

00:17:59.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's, that's appreciated Nathan. Um, but the other, cause the other thing I think about, um, well, a couple of things, one is that we, like, we don't really know the reason the committee for the new revised standard version or the new revised standard version, updated edition decided to put that in brackets or included or not, you know, we don't know the, but

00:18:24.42
Nathan Pile
Right. We could find out.

00:18:28.88
Kevin Shock
I get the sense.

00:18:29.43
Nathan Pile
You could find out. You could absolutely find out.

00:18:31.52
Kevin Shock
I'm sure you could find out. Yeah.

00:18:32.69
Nathan Pile
I'm sure it's written out there someplace.

00:18:32.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Some, yeah. Someone has that knowledge somewhere.

00:18:36.36
Nathan Pile
Kevin and I, Kevin and I are not going there today.

00:18:36.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:18:39.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right. Right. Just because the footnote says other ancient authorities, which makes me think that the authorities that they're the manuscripts that they're relying on for their translation do include it.

00:18:52.12
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:18:52.98
Kevin Shock
um But I, but I think that that points out like, like you said, Nathan, is that, we We too often think of the Bible as a book.

00:19:04.96
Kevin Shock
But the, the Bible is a, it's a library.

00:19:05.39
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:19:07.94
Kevin Shock
It's a collection of writings. And it's a collection of writings that have been compiled from oral tradition. So before the Gospels were written down, people were telling these stories to one another.

00:19:23.39
Kevin Shock
and And you all know,

00:19:23.45
Nathan Pile
but

00:19:26.41
Kevin Shock
who are listening that if, if two people are telling the story, telling story about the same event, one person's going to leave out certain details and include certain details. And the other person's going to leave out, you know, it, it, it all depends on perspective.

00:19:40.53
Kevin Shock
um I mean, it does, it does.

00:19:42.50
Nathan Pile
Funny that we started well, It's funny that we started our podcast with perspectives.

00:19:49.45
Nathan Pile
The younger young man and the older young man.

00:19:51.07
Kevin Shock
yeah Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Right, but we're, we're going to tell the story through our own lens. And so that's, that's the that's the way that scripture came together.

00:19:56.86
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:20:01.21
Kevin Shock
It was it was a bunch of people telling the story. And then finally people said, well, we should write it down. And then people edited it. And so there are many different manuscript ancient manuscripts out there.

00:20:12.14
Kevin Shock
um And ah and you know maybe each community had their own manuscript. And wasn't like ah all of this stuff happened

00:20:24.60
Kevin Shock
as part of this great big process to get us to where we are today, that we have different translations of scripture. um

00:20:34.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So Mark, Mark, right.

00:20:34.80
Kevin Shock
But that's.

00:20:35.46
Nathan Pile
Or Luke, because we're reading from Luke, Luke writes for a community. And then somebody happens to travel through that community and, and happens to go to church and they read Luke's writing and they're like, Ooh, I'd like that in my town.

00:20:39.44
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:20:51.61
Nathan Pile
And somebody sits and writes it word for word onto another scroll and takes it with them to their town.

00:20:51.94
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:20:59.01
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:20:58.97
Nathan Pile
Like that's how this gets spread.

00:20:59.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah, Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we know enough now through archeology and other, ah other social and natural sciences that, that scripture was not just written by one person.

00:21:20.58
Kevin Shock
It, it was, it had multiple authors. It had multiple editors. Um, That's just the way the sacred text text came together, which I know Nathan and I have talked about this before on the podcast, which is why we, in our tradition, believe scripture to not be inerrant, that is, without flaw or um or contradiction, but we do believe it to be inspired.

00:21:46.82
Kevin Shock
we so We still believe that the Holy Spirit has been a part of this entire process to get us to where we are today with this translation of scripture sitting in front of us. But we recognize that there have been lots of, there were different manuscripts and then different translations and different editors. And, you know, and even when you look at, if you if you were to pick up a a a Hebrew Bible, and I don't even mean written in Hebrew, but like an English language, Jewish scripture book, ah which they they call the Tanakh,

00:22:24.12
Kevin Shock
but the the Torah, the the writings, the prophets, um the um the books are going to be in a different order than what they are in your Bible at home.

00:22:35.67
Nathan Pile
Yes.

00:22:36.61
Kevin Shock
And it's, and it's, it's just because of it's because of editing.

00:22:36.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:22:39.61
Kevin Shock
It's because, yeah, the different communities have different ways of reading and interpreting and presenting the material. So that's, yeah. Just a small example. But anyway, thanks, Nathan.

00:22:50.07
Kevin Shock
that's that was a That was a rabbit hole. I didn't necessarily think we'd go down, but I'm glad that that jumped out at you and you, you, you thought to talk about it a little bit.

00:22:56.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:22:58.53
Kevin Shock
yeah, I, Right at the beginning, one on his right and one on his left.

00:22:58.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah. What word, phrase, or image strikes you, buddy?

00:23:04.20
Kevin Shock
And I, I, they're just when I read that, I thought to myself, Why why that detail?

00:23:10.05
Nathan Pile
Mmmmm

00:23:10.99
Kevin Shock
especially because that's the detail that's right before yours. that like Wouldn't it be more important to talk about forgiveness and all of these things than it would be to talk about one on his right and one on his left? But it seems that perhaps one on his right and one on his left was ah common in all ancient manuscripts.

00:23:25.93
Nathan Pile
It is. other That's why there's no brackets around it.

00:23:26.63
Kevin Shock
um

00:23:28.72
Nathan Pile
It was in all of them.

00:23:29.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. what you know why, Why is Jesus in the middle? I don't know. and And then I looked a little bit farther to see, it it never tells us which one is on his right and which one is on his left, only that that they are there.

00:23:44.15
Kevin Shock
um it It doesn't tell us whether the the self-righteous or the self-serving one is on the right or left, and it doesn't tell us if the repentant one is on the right or left, but we know that they're both there.

00:23:45.77
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

00:23:57.60
Kevin Shock
And, and it, it does kind of feel a little bit like the... um

00:24:03.87
Kevin Shock
ah I mean, um this isn't this isn't the right thing to say. It feels this way, though, to me, so I'm going to say it. Like the, the, the old um vision of the the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other shoulder.

00:24:18.71
Kevin Shock
I know that that doesn't really apply because this is Jesus that we're talking about, and I don't want to characterize one criminal as an angel and one as a devil, but yeah. that's That's the...

00:24:31.09
Kevin Shock
that's the vision that comes to mind for me.

00:24:38.06
Nathan Pile
um Your comment made got me thinking. is Luke.

00:24:45.65
Nathan Pile
The gospel where the disciples

00:24:51.86
Nathan Pile
want to be on the left and right of Jesus.

00:24:57.33
Kevin Shock
Oh, I don't know. I don't know. you You mean that, yeah, where

00:25:02.33
Nathan Pile
Where the disciples are kind of... Right.

00:25:04.35
Kevin Shock
grant grant us, Lord, one to be on your right hand in the in the age to come and one to be at your left.

00:25:07.62
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:25:09.90
Nathan Pile
right

00:25:10.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I don't know. oh

00:25:13.78
Nathan Pile
I was just going to, paging back through here to see if... yeah.

00:25:20.08
Kevin Shock
I don't even know where that would show up in Luke.

00:25:22.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:25:24.06
Kevin Shock
Exactly.

00:25:29.72
Nathan Pile
And it may not be in Luke's text at all. Um, but I thought if it did, that would, that would, that would bring some connection um,

00:25:44.84
Nathan Pile
to why that would get named here.

00:25:49.08
Nathan Pile
Because it would still be in the reader's understanding of, and I don't i don't see it, at least by looking at, at the subject pieces. And so it might be in it might being john

00:26:11.47
Kevin Shock
I'm trying to do some searches here Bible Gateway to really quickly to see if that can, that shows up somewhere, although it's not, it's also not easy to search for.

00:26:16.62
Nathan Pile
if that shows up someplace. Um,

00:26:23.89
Nathan Pile
yeah, well, yeah, that's why I didn't do the search. Well, it, it is an interesting, it is an interesting piece, a question of,

00:26:37.71
Nathan Pile
of, of who he's in company with. and um, And, you know, rather than just saying there were Jesus and two criminals were hung, we're specifically putting Jesus in the middle of it.

00:26:54.22
Nathan Pile
And as you as you've articulated, we don't know which one is the repentant one and which one is not. um

00:27:03.39
Nathan Pile
You know, and so I guess in some ways this, I, in, in, in word format, Jesus is in between, Jesus, Jesus lives in between the repentant heart and the and the mocking heart you might say um would be a way of of of hearing or seeing that um kind of a thing so

00:27:19.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

00:27:28.03
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah, and the only um the only place that I find it is um is Mark 10.

00:27:37.35
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:27:37.79
Kevin Shock
And I don't have enough in my... don't have my like my parallel readings book here.

00:27:44.72
Nathan Pile
Nah, I don't have up here either. Yeah, I don't either.

00:27:47.84
Kevin Shock
But um yeah, to see if it occurs in Luke as well.

00:27:48.69
Nathan Pile
To be able to look that up and...

00:27:51.40
Kevin Shock
But yeah, Mark 10: 37. Yeah. 36, 37. Anywho

00:27:59.75
Kevin Shock
anywho Yeah. So I, yeah, I don't, um, again, I don't know why that, why that, uh, catches my attention, but that's, that's what it was.

00:28:11.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:28:12.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah, no, that's, it's interesting. Well, and it's, and you know, again, the, your question helps us even maybe ask some questions and, and begin to wrestle with a little bit.

00:28:22.48
Nathan Pile
What, again, what's the, what was the author hoping to point us to as we were, as we're engaging

00:28:29.60
Kevin Shock
Thanks.

00:28:33.85
Nathan Pile
get engaging that in this text.

00:28:40.04
Nathan Pile
All right, want to do it a second time.

00:28:41.67
Kevin Shock
Yes, please.

00:28:44.37
Nathan Pile
When they came to the place that is called the skull, they crucified Jesus, there with the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. Then Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.

00:28:58.95
Nathan Pile
And they cast lots to divide his clothing. And the people stood by watching, but the leaders scoffed at him, saying, He saved others. Let him save himself if he is the Messiah of God, his chosen one.

00:29:14.87
Nathan Pile
The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine and saying, If you are king of the Jews, save yourself. There was also an inscription over him.

00:29:25.71
Nathan Pile
This is the king of the Jews. One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.

00:29:37.93
Nathan Pile
But the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds.

00:29:51.83
Nathan Pile
But this man has done nothing wrong. Then he said, Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom. He replied, truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.

00:30:07.49
Nathan Pile
Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:30:13.19
Kevin Shock
Well, I, um, I mean, I'm, I'm drawn to that. Uh, I'm drawn to the, the image of the two criminals who are under the same sentence of condemnation.

00:30:28.75
Kevin Shock
It appears from what we read in the text that they've done the same thing and that one of them recognizes that they fully deserve what they've done.

00:30:40.80
Kevin Shock
um,

00:30:45.72
Kevin Shock
And so I say that to say that there's, looking at them, there's no difference between the two. Based on based on who they are, the situation they're what they've done, the condemnation they've received.

00:31:09.02
Kevin Shock
And Jesus...

00:31:12.02
Kevin Shock
Interestingly enough, Nathan, I'm glad we had that little tangent there about, you know, like sitting on the right and left and, ah and, and wanting, wanting to um the disciples asking him, well, in, I, I found a little more information in Mark's gospels.

00:31:26.09
Kevin Shock
It's James and John who ask him.

00:31:28.58
Nathan Pile
you

00:31:29.04
Kevin Shock
ah And, and, you know, we want you to grant and one to sit on your one to sit on your right and one to sit on your left in the, in the kingdom. um In Matthew's gospel. ah it's, It's their mom who asks him.

00:31:44.62
Nathan Pile
Wow.

00:31:46.79
Kevin Shock
I'd forgotten that detail. Yeah, it's James and John's mother who asks Jesus, you know, do this for my boys.

00:31:53.04
Nathan Pile
To put James and John. Yeah.

00:31:54.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:31:55.36
Nathan Pile
Okay.

00:31:55.53
Kevin Shock
and And both times he says, this isn't mine to grant. But here on the cross, he has, and, and this isn't,

00:32:06.49
Kevin Shock
I think we have to be careful with this parallel because that, that other thing with the disciples does not show up in Luke's gospel anywhere. Um, but, uh, Luke would be aware of it here.

00:32:13.12
Nathan Pile
Right. But Luke would be aware of it because he has Mark.

00:32:19.14
Kevin Shock
Yes, that's right. That's right. He has one of the source texts. Yes. Um, I know it's also a good thing. We had that conversation about ancient manuscripts and stuff like that then too. Anyway, uh, yes, Luke would have read Mark

00:32:34.36
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:32:35.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And, and then an unknown source called Q. um Anyway, he would have read Mark ah good here.

00:32:38.67
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:32:43.92
Kevin Shock
You have, maybe I'm answering my first question for myself. um You have two people who are already on his right and left, but not in the age to come at the, it in a, in a, in a sentence of condemnation here on earth.

00:33:01.31
Kevin Shock
And, Though he says in Mark's gospel, that's not mine to grant. He has no problem here on the cross telling the criminal who is repentant.

00:33:14.36
Kevin Shock
You're going to be with me in paradise.

00:33:16.52
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:33:19.36
Kevin Shock
And so here it, it is his to grant. But also then that also makes me wonder, um,

00:33:30.81
Kevin Shock
It makes me wonder about, I know we a couple episodes ago we talked about, ah we didn't we didn't say ah Kronos and Kairos, but we talked about kind of the time how God operates outside of time.

00:33:43.59
Kevin Shock
and And it does make me wonder, anytime I read this in Luke's Gospel, are they already in paradise?

00:33:53.81
Kevin Shock
they're hanging, They're hanging there on the cross. It certainly is not a human image of what paradise looks like.

00:34:01.79
Kevin Shock
It's suffering. It's a death. But this, this criminal, in his repentance, and when I say repentance, he's not, he's not telling Jesus here he's, he's sorry for what he has done.

00:34:18.03
Kevin Shock
he is, He is turning his hears says perspective, his focus, fully on Jesus.

00:34:24.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:34:26.07
Kevin Shock
and And in so doing, does he receive the kingdom. um not because it's the right thing to do, but because all he can see is the kingdom now that he's focused on Jesus.

00:34:40.60
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:34:40.69
Kevin Shock
um

00:34:44.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah. ah he The criminal in focusing on Jesus sheds himself of all of the things that plague him in this earthly life.

00:34:59.22
Kevin Shock
And... And I think that, so to go back to answer, actually answer the question, it's easier said than done. But I do think that focusing, focusing fully on Jesus in our life changes our perspective completely and allows us to see things in a way that Jesus wants us to see things and people in a way that Jesus wants us to see people in our own

00:35:28.42
Kevin Shock
self-serving ways and the wrongs we have committed and any good we have done, it helps us, it's it makes us see all of that in a different perspective. And I, I think that this is what Jesus, this is what God is calling me to here, to to focus in and no matter how extreme the situation, to be able to to seek to focus on Jesus and and and thereby see perceive the like the kingdom as God brings it to this earth?

00:36:05.67
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:36:05.81
Kevin Shock
It's a real, like, it's not a very practical answer to this question, but that's, that's just where I am in reading this and in in considering the but criminal.

00:36:20.78
Nathan Pile
The and, and um, I'm going to share my reflection in connection to yours here because you went to the same point. But I got there a little differently in that as I read it this second time through, the thing that I noticed was that the leaders made fun of them.

00:36:40.61
Nathan Pile
The soldiers made fun of them the criminal made fun of them. And so you like to me, it's almost like a target. We're, we're moving from a lot of people to, to one person, to essentially the the juxtaposition of another individual who is saying, leave this guy alone.

00:37:01.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:37:05.17
Nathan Pile
Um... Because the crowd, the, the leaders, the soldiers are part of the are a part of the mass. And all of their responses to this um is... All of their responses to to to Jesus mocking him. you have one...

00:37:27.95
Nathan Pile
mocking him and um and you have one again who who who turns and sees Jesus for who Jesus is and because of that, because of seeing that makes a request um that seems um

00:37:41.01
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:37:54.65
Nathan Pile
extreme from where maybe even we're sitting as Christians to say that Jesus is going to to allow this criminal again as you've articulated, he's he's not apolo- he hasn't apologized or, or sit you know for for what he's done what he's done is he's put Jesus at the center

00:38:15.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. yeah Just real quickly, it, I did say that he hadn't apologized, and you're right to assert that. um What he did, though, he did acknowledge that what he did was wrong.

00:38:28.73
Nathan Pile
Yes, you're right.

00:38:28.92
Kevin Shock
or he, he acknowledged that they got themselves in this position. They, they did something. They deserve their condemnation.

00:38:37.46
Nathan Pile
Yes.

00:38:37.55
Kevin Shock
And I think that that's, although it's not an apology, it is a shift of perspective.

00:38:40.66
Nathan Pile
You're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:38:43.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Go continue.

00:38:46.61
Nathan Pile
No, no, no, no, I was done. I was, I was over, I was done sharing.

00:38:49.40
Kevin Shock
okay. Okay. Yeah.

00:38:54.97
Nathan Pile
So um But yeah, I think it's, it's, to me, again, it's fascinating. It's fascinating to know that that the author of Luke has Mark.

00:39:07.09
Nathan Pile
And the way the author of Luke wants to talk about the right and the left of Jesus is with two criminals.

00:39:15.33
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:39:16.61
Nathan Pile
um

00:39:19.34
Nathan Pile
and And that the repentant, that the repentant

00:39:25.15
Nathan Pile
criminal um is, is, is put opposite, not only the other criminal but, but the soldiers and the leaders who whose behavior is not,

00:39:44.78
Nathan Pile
is not focused on, on, on, on the son of God but is on their own selfish things for whatever reason

00:39:51.01
Kevin Shock
Right. that that's, That's right. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Yeah. all of All of them that you named. this this all, All three of those. the, the Who did you say?

00:40:01.91
Kevin Shock
The leaders, the soldiers, and the, and the criminal.

00:40:04.53
Nathan Pile
And the other criminal, the mocking criminal, yeah.

00:40:06.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right.

00:40:07.87
Nathan Pile
Just a self to self-try to delineate.

00:40:08.71
Kevin Shock
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:40:10.41
Nathan Pile
to know

00:40:12.14
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and who knows who knows why the... um

00:40:23.87
Kevin Shock
yeah who, I mean, I mean the soldiers, I, I wonder why the soldiers mocked him. The leaders scoff at him because their whole their whole point is that he's, he's saying he's the son of he's saying he's the Messiah or not, not denying that he's the Messiah.

00:40:41.76
Kevin Shock
And so you know blasphemy is their issue with him. The soldiers maybe, I think the soldiers are just being cruel because that's the that's the reality of the, the work they do in the culture that they're in.

00:40:55.92
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:40:56.34
Kevin Shock
They're in a violent culture. um there they're supposed They're supposed to continue to uphold the force of violence in for for Caesar, for the emperor, um because violence keeps the other people in line.

00:41:16.08
Kevin Shock
Violence controls, um or at least gives the...

00:41:24.74
Kevin Shock
what's what's the word I'm looking for gives the impression of control um the

00:41:30.58
Nathan Pile
Sure. It also allows them to dehumanize the other, which allows them to, to provide, allows them to be violent with the other.

00:41:39.61
Kevin Shock
right yeah yeah and that and that was my that was my next statement is that violence isn't always physical violence, it's, it's, it's emotional violence it's uh it's yeah um

00:41:43.50
Nathan Pile
Oh, okay.

00:41:48.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:41:50.95
Kevin Shock
and then And then, of course, the criminal, the unrepentant criminal, just want he like he wants to get off the cross. He wants to go back to doing what he was doing. and

00:41:58.56
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:41:58.83
Kevin Shock
um ah So, ah yeah, I, you're right, though. It's all about it's all about people. Everyone else, well, the people who are standing by watching, we can't really like cast judgment on them, but the the leaders, the soldiers, the unrepentant criminal are all

00:42:22.08
Kevin Shock
interested in their own things and, and, and being self-serving. And it's the, it's the repentant criminal who says, this isn't, we're getting what we deserve.

00:42:35.77
Kevin Shock
This, this man is not guilty. This man doesn't deserve this. And, um and even there, as I speak it, it's, it's him in his most,

00:42:49.80
Kevin Shock
difficult hour of his life, probably, um focusing on someone else and not, not himself. And, uh, I mean, how, how easy would it have been for him just not to say anything to the other criminal at all, but right, right, right.

00:43:06.30
Nathan Pile
Right. Just to unengage be. Yeah.

00:43:11.96
Kevin Shock
But he, um, but, but he rebukes him. Yeah.

00:43:16.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, um Should we look at it a third time?

00:43:22.30
Nathan Pile
yeah um

00:43:28.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:43:29.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I was looking at your third question because I, ah, you you shared something and you've said it a couple of times. I just want to make sure we all hear it. um This idea of they're in paradise today.

00:43:45.58
Nathan Pile
Like we've talked about a lot of other things, but boy, this is the good news.

00:43:47.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:43:49.11
Nathan Pile
This is who God is.

00:43:52.38
Nathan Pile
This isn't, this isn't.

00:43:57.08
Nathan Pile
you know this is, I, I make you this promise that, that you're in paradise today.

00:44:06.10
Nathan Pile
yeah I think when we get when when we're when we're wrestling with who God is, it doesn't get any more clear to me than in this moment.

00:44:20.46
Nathan Pile
of who This is who God is. We as selfish human beings would be worried about our own our own situation. We would be the leader or the soldier or the mocking criminal.

00:44:36.58
Nathan Pile
But that's not who Jesus is. Jesus is, is focused on the other and saying, you're with, you're, you're with me.

00:44:42.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:44:45.53
Nathan Pile
So I just appreciate that you, that you, you hit it as we were talking about these other pieces.

00:44:45.64
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

00:44:50.14
Nathan Pile
I just want to make sure that we all hear it because this is, this is it.

00:44:52.50
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:56.71
Nathan Pile
This is why we celebrate Easter. It's why we have Christ the King ah you know as a celebration at the end of the church calendar year is because of who the Christ is.

00:45:06.55
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:45:16.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um Okay. So I'm going to say something else here. but Let's read, let's read it. Let's read it. And then, cause I want to go down another rabbit hole.

00:45:28.38
Nathan Pile
ah Okay.

00:45:29.41
Kevin Shock
Let's read it first.

00:45:29.78
Nathan Pile
Rabbit holes. Here we come.

00:45:32.04
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:45:32.09
Nathan Pile
All right.

00:45:32.72
Kevin Shock
Luke from Luke 23. When they came to the place that is called the skull, they crucified Jesus there with the criminals, one on his right and one on his left. Then Jesus said, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.

00:45:45.71
Kevin Shock
And they cast lots to divide his clothing. And the people stood by watching, but the leader scoffed at him, saying, He saved others. Let him save himself if he is the Messiah of God, his chosen one.

00:45:58.54
Kevin Shock
The soldiers also mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine and saying, If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself. There was also an inscription over him, This is the king of the Jews.

00:46:10.09
Kevin Shock
One of the criminals who were hanged there kept deriding him and saying, Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us. But the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation?

00:46:23.44
Kevin Shock
And we indeed have been condemned justly, for we are getting what we deserve for our deeds. But this man has done nothing wrong. Then he said, Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom.

00:46:34.78
Kevin Shock
He replied, Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.

00:46:40.87
Kevin Shock
ah Nathan, I'm, normally I ask you another question here. I said I had another rabbit hole. I'll wait to go down the rabbit hole.

00:46:46.16
Nathan Pile
I was going to we'll ask the question. Get to your rabbit hole, man. Everybody's in suspense.

00:46:52.54
Kevin Shock
I don't know that everyone's in suspense. the no the thing that The thing that just popped into my brain there is, you know the you had talked about that line that's included in this translation, but other ancient authorities don't include

00:47:05.17
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:47:07.81
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:47:09.05
Kevin Shock
Now, there we don't know the reasons why some include it and some don't. It it may be that it was a detail that was overlooked. But it occurred to me that what Jesus is saying verbally here, Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.

00:47:23.07
Kevin Shock
He

00:47:26.03
Kevin Shock
he exhibits that to the repentant criminal.

00:47:29.97
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:47:32.99
Kevin Shock
The repentant criminal is not, now he's not saying this explicitly. But he's, he is in, in s-, in ah, in a way saying, Lord, forgive me for I did not know what I was doing.

00:47:47.55
Kevin Shock
And Jesus forgives him.

00:47:53.10
Kevin Shock
So it could be that there are other ancient authorities that think that that line just isn't necessary. Because it's, it's demonstrated later in the passage.

00:48:00.27
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:48:05.36
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:48:06.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay. Anyway, so Nathan, how do you see

00:48:08.92
Nathan Pile
Well, and it could it could just, just as easily, just as easily, it could be added by an editor who wants to put an exclamation point on this passage.

00:48:17.66
Kevin Shock
that's right. That's right. Absolutely.

00:48:18.91
Nathan Pile
And so that's why I think I have no doubt and now that we've had this conversation for the last 48 minutes.

00:48:19.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

00:48:24.46
Nathan Pile
my guess is this is the argument in that room when they're deciding what goes in and what goes out. They can't, there's no way to know.

00:48:31.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

00:48:32.78
Nathan Pile
And so they just include it.

00:48:33.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah. That's right.

00:48:34.43
Nathan Pile
They just

00:48:36.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the last 41 minutes, the first nine of us were just us bantering with each other.

00:48:45.85
Nathan Pile
Thanks for being very specific with that. Yeah. like Thank you for that.

00:48:48.22
Kevin Shock
All right, Nathan, how do you seek Jesus's kingdom?

00:48:51.20
Nathan Pile
um You and I have just lived it out in the last 41 minutes. um ah, yeah the ban- You can say the bantering was a part of it?

00:48:58.35
Kevin Shock
It was before that, too. We can include all 48. Yeah.

00:49:02.85
Nathan Pile
Okay. um I just didn't want to be corrected again. um But I was right at the beginning of, of this podcast. I will hold on to that. so ah But no, the...

00:49:12.06
Kevin Shock
We were.

00:49:12.82
Nathan Pile
the, I, I seek the kingdom through scripture is one of the ways that yes, there are other ways, but today I'm going to hold onto this one. Um, because it, it is, it is in the studying of this. Again, I like the history part of this. I like, I like understanding that there's other, um,

00:49:36.13
Nathan Pile
that there are ancient texts that have it in it and there are ancient texts that don't have it in it. I like that has opened up the, the, the, the mystery of God to me in, in some big ways.

00:49:48.95
Nathan Pile
Um, and so wrestling with that in, in the midst of this passage and trying to figure out again, why would it be here and why wouldn't it be here? um

00:50:01.42
Nathan Pile
you know, opens up the mystery of God to me and, and this kingdom that, that Jesus has come to create. Um, and, um, and yeah, it, to me, it's a powerful, it is a powerful

00:50:22.89
Nathan Pile
conversation that you and I have, have shared in to get to this point. and, um, and, And find it, you know, I find the kingdom of God, yes, in community, what you and I are doing here with Bible study, I find it in worship as we gather together in worship.

00:50:37.28
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:50:39.45
Nathan Pile
um But today, I want you know, I want my answer to kind of revolve around the the struggling with scripture to see and understand God and, and God's son in ways that brings Jesus, the Christ alive in 2025 to me.

00:51:01.08
Nathan Pile
and, and the, the seeing of these these leaders and and soldiers and mocking criminal put against the example that is the repentant criminal.

00:51:18.95
Nathan Pile
And all, not all that he does. Yes, he he recognizes um his his actions were wrong. but he puts his focus centrally on Jesus the Christ, making that his, and and doing it with a whole heart because again, I believe that the son of God would know that if he's just saying it at the end of his life, just to, you know, I think Jesus would call him on it.

00:51:46.83
Nathan Pile
Like Jesus calls the Pharisees and the Sadducees at other times in scripture on their, on their junk. He's not calling him on it. He's, he's obviously witnessed the, the, the repentant heart and says,

00:52:03.54
Nathan Pile
today it's true. Today you're with me. um And so I think that's, that's what helps bring the kingdom aliv- and that, that mysterious kingdom that is God's, that is sometimes hard to understand

00:52:07.91
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:52:22.82
Nathan Pile
describe or nail down here in this passage and and our conversation of this passage, I think helps me to say, here's the kingdom here. Here I see the kingdom of God here.

00:52:34.54
Nathan Pile
I experienced it in, in scripture today and, and in our conversation of what that does and and and the everybody that came before it to make it happen. the The editors, the writers, the storytellers, and Jesus himself on the cross.

00:52:50.77
Nathan Pile
and the, And those who were in the crowd that were only there to be witnesses so that they could then tell the story.

00:52:57.84
Nathan Pile
All of that helps me in my seeking of the, and my seeking of the kingdom.

00:53:09.24
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend?

00:53:12.25
Nathan Pile
How do you seek Jesus's kingdom?

00:53:15.25
Kevin Shock
um yeah, I don't, you raise a lot of good, lot of good ah ways that we can do that um I, I think, I think the only thing I want to add is that um well not add just my, my thoughts on it is the the kingdom well first of all the kingdom seeks uh ah we certainly, we certainly can seek it but, but if we know Jesus at all we know that the kingdom uh much like the um much like the end of psalm 23 better translated than how we normally read it is that uh that righteousness and loving kindness pursue us all the days of our life um

00:54:03.75
Nathan Pile
hmm

00:54:08.52
Kevin Shock
and And that's, I mean, that, that is Jesus's kingdom. Righteousness and loving kindness. Right relationship and, and inexhaustible compassion.

00:54:22.54
Kevin Shock
that That is the kingdom. And so it, it seeks us. It pursues us. God pursues us. And in that image that I love of

00:54:43.58
Kevin Shock
Sorry, I just had a... Having lots of thoughts about this right now, the, the image, The image that I love of um of repentance, and I know we've talked about this before well, that that both the both the biblical Hebrew and the Koine Greek understanding of what the word that we translate as repentance, the words that we translate late as repentance, is is turning.

00:54:47.46
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

00:55:11.90
Kevin Shock
So the um if, if the kingdom is pursuing us every every day, every moment of our life, all that's required of us is to stop and turn.

00:55:24.22
Kevin Shock
and And it's there. It's right there. It's right there. And the thing that I'm thinking about now is that, um, um

00:55:38.13
Kevin Shock
the, the two criminals...

00:55:41.78
Kevin Shock
I'm looping back to the first question. The two criminals were placed at his right and at his left, meaning neither of them had to look past the other one to see Jesus.

00:55:53.88
Kevin Shock
He was directly beside both of them. And one of them chose to take that proximity and say, Lord, I want you to do whatever it is I ask of you.

00:56:06.89
Kevin Shock
And the other one took that proximity and said to the one he did have to look past Jesus to rebuke the other one and say do you not see what's happening here Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom and Jesus's response to him is to say you're already remembered

00:56:35.15
Kevin Shock
and

00:56:40.49
Kevin Shock
I imagine that Jesus could say to him, I've been pursuing you all along.

00:56:48.21
Kevin Shock
you, You're already where you were meant to be, and not because of your condemnation, but because of my love and compassion for you.

00:56:57.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:57:02.01
Kevin Shock
Well, you know, Nathan, this is why we read this stuff over and over and over again, because this is, I feel like with, you know, fifty whatever, 40, however long in, um that ah this this passage is, this this prayerfully and in conversation with you, this passage is ah ah being open to me in new ways that I, it's easy to read a crucifixion passage and say, oh, I know this part of the story.

00:57:33.95
Kevin Shock
I've heard it before.

00:57:34.28
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:57:35.86
Kevin Shock
But when you dig in deep to it, you've, stuff that's familiar becomes life-changing.

00:57:43.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:44.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:57:46.15
Nathan Pile
Well, and again, that would have been part of why the, why these passages, why these these gospels got written down and passed around was because we like people wanted them to become familiar.

00:58:00.34
Nathan Pile
And that the story...

00:58:00.45
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:58:02.61
Nathan Pile
you know Again, I love, I love how your, your edit on this passage will show up in a sermon.

00:58:12.76
Nathan Pile
It won't get written into the Bible, but it includes, it includes the Old Testament Psalm 23 of that being of the piece of Jesus pursuing.

00:58:15.39
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:58:24.34
Nathan Pile
I've always been pursuing you. You're with me today.

00:58:28.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:58:29.43
Nathan Pile
Um... And again, because of god because of God's action, not the criminal's action, is the reason why that has come to fruition.

00:58:42.81
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

00:58:43.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:58:44.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love it.

00:58:46.25
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep.

00:58:48.31
Nathan Pile
So, um if you're... Anything else, buddy? I'll look at the uh the text, the additional text. But is there anything else? All right.

00:58:59.37
Kevin Shock
No, I don't think so. Yeah. Thanks.

00:59:02.02
Nathan Pile
Additional texts for Christ the King Sunday, Jeremiah 23 verses 1 through 6, coming of the shepherd and righteous branch who will execute justice.

00:59:17.46
Nathan Pile
Again, having connection here with this Luke and gospel. Yeah. um Jesus is pursuing us to do that justice. um

00:59:27.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:59:28.69
Nathan Pile
I will be exalted among the nations in Psalm 46.

00:59:33.55
Nathan Pile
Colossians chapter 1, verses 11 through 20, which is the hymn of Christ, firstborn of all creation, peace through his blood. And then the semi-continuous readings ah that kind of wrap up our year.

00:59:46.09
Nathan Pile
Jeremiah 23, verses 1 through 6. Again, the coming of the shepherd.

00:59:49.13
Kevin Shock
Oh, yeah. Actually, yeah, the complimentary and the semi continuous first reading are the same for this, this Sunday.

00:59:56.77
Nathan Pile
yeah And then um the psalmody here is from Luke. um Luke chapter 1, verse 68 through 79.

01:00:07.56
Nathan Pile
um You have raised up for us a mighty Savior. Yeah.

01:00:11.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah, this is the song of Zechariah.

01:00:14.19
Nathan Pile
yeah

01:00:14.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:00:15.40
Nathan Pile
So again, so the, the idea of a psalm is a song.

01:00:15.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Which interestingly. and

01:00:18.76
Nathan Pile
And so this is ah a New Testament song to help make that connection, folks.

01:00:22.53
Kevin Shock
That's yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Thank you, Nathan.

01:00:25.66
Nathan Pile
So you're going say interesting though.

01:00:29.87
Kevin Shock
um It just yeah here here's another here's another person at the moment of death, seeing Jesus and ah but ready to. receive the kingdom I um this is the song of Zachariah uh no wait am I, am I getting this right or wrong um there's a Simeon song what now oh geez Kevin now I'm um in the in the tender compassion of our god the dawn from on height

01:00:49.57
Nathan Pile
I can, I can look quickly here.

01:00:55.28
Nathan Pile
throwing them all together here on us.

01:00:58.91
Nathan Pile
but Zacha- It's Zachariah's prophecy.

01:01:00.95
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right. Forget what I was going to say then. that's's the Well, this is someone who thought he was as good as dead. Who's now receiving the birth of a child as a gift.

01:01:10.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:01:11.51
Kevin Shock
And, and, and knowing that this child is the one who will.

01:01:15.71
Nathan Pile
Prepare.

01:01:16.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Who, what well, no, who is, who is the kingdom. Yeah. Wait.

01:01:23.43
Nathan Pile
No, he's, he's talking about his son And so his son is coming to prepare the way of the Lord.

01:01:27.52
Kevin Shock
Oh my gosh. You're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. yeah I'm, I'm, I'm thoroughly thrown off. You're right. This is John the Baptist father. Okay. Nevermind. Nevermind. I'm now I'm looking too hard for, it um i'm being affected by the scripture that is being read. So.

01:01:46.21
Nathan Pile
Well, as always, it is it has been a delight of three years. um Listeners, for us to journey with you in scripture, we continue to look forward to season four um as we move forward.

01:02:00.38
Nathan Pile
ah And we look forward to hearing your reflections as I have, again, obviously Kevin and I have enjoyed today immensely. So as you've heard us going back and forth.

01:02:11.33
Nathan Pile
So we hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

01:02:12.32
Kevin Shock
Yes.

01:02:14.73
Nathan Pile
Grace to you.

01:02:16.59
Kevin Shock
And peace.