tend: a bible podcast

We believe God plants the seeds of faith in every life. Any good gardener knows that those seeds need tending if the seed is to produce vegetables or fruit. Faith needs to be tended. Our goal is to provide a weekly dose of tending for our faith and others, who might choose to join us as we live into the way of Jesus.

All Episodes

tend: a bible podcast

S4 Episode 1: Psalm 122

November 24, 2025 • Nathan Pile and Kevin Shock • Season 4 • Episode 1

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you build peace?

Additional texts:

Isaiah 2:1-5

Romans 13:11-14

Matthew 24:36-44

00:00:01.82
Kevin Shock
Hey everybody, welcome to season four.

00:00:06.13
Nathan Pile
Four, four, four, four, four. Yeah.

00:00:08.92
Kevin Shock
Season four, episode one of the Tend, of Tend: a Bible podcast. Nathan and I are excited to begin our fourth season. um It means a means a couple of things for us.

00:00:19.16
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:00:22.27
Kevin Shock
One, we are... um I know we've talked about this before on the podcast, Nathan, but one thing is that we go, we in our tradition, we follow a three year lectionary cycle.

00:00:36.71
Kevin Shock
So this means that we have completed the cycle one way through the whole already.

00:00:39.40
Nathan Pile
We have.

00:00:42.54
Kevin Shock
um Well, already it's taken three years, ah but, ah but it does mean, but also there are ah several appointed readings for each week. So there won't necessarily be a ah lot of repetition even beginning now.

00:00:56.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:00:57.09
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yeah.

00:00:57.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:00:58.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Cause we're usually picking one of four readings. um

00:01:01.78
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:01:02.63
Nathan Pile
And so it will take us really 12 years to get through all of the texts. And that doesn't count the semi-continuous stuff.

00:01:08.46
Kevin Shock
If we,

00:01:11.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I confess I didn't go back to season one, episode one to see which one we talked about.

00:01:11.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:01:16.46
Kevin Shock
um So maybe we are talking about the same one, but I don't actually think that we are today.

00:01:23.13
Nathan Pile
um So that's one change. There'll be a new intro and a new outro to our to this fourth season as well.

00:01:31.61
Kevin Shock
Which you will have already heard if you're hearing this.

00:01:34.36
Nathan Pile
That's right. So thank you, Burton, for, for putting that together for us.

00:01:40.40
Kevin Shock
Yes, our post-production person, Burton, Burton Peese.

00:01:42.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah, we call him we call a producer. Producer. that's just fancy That's the fancy title.

00:01:49.56
Kevin Shock
he's our producer.

00:01:50.71
Nathan Pile
That's the fancy title.

00:01:50.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:01:52.26
Nathan Pile
um And the other ah piece of of change for season four is that our buddy, Pastor Kevin Shock, has been elected to be Bishop Kevin Shock.

00:02:08.50
Nathan Pile
So um he will not be, as of the, the hearing of this, he will not yet be Bishop, but he will be Bishop. he His new title is Bishop Elect, everybody. So, yeah.

00:02:20.06
Nathan Pile
So, but February 1st, and actually his installation will be um February 7th. um

00:02:27.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah, February 7th at Mount Calvary Lutheran Church in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

00:02:31.91
Nathan Pile
And all are welcome. So, so you're, yeah.

00:02:33.24
Kevin Shock
Absolutely. We'd love to see all of our Tend Nation there, as Nathan says.

00:02:38.11
Nathan Pile
That's right.

00:02:39.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:02:39.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So, but congratulations, Kevin. We look forward to your leadership leading us here in the ministry in the Allegheny Synod. So.

00:02:49.31
Kevin Shock
Thanks.

00:02:50.35
Nathan Pile
Um, uh,

00:02:50.59
Kevin Shock
um it It only happened as of this recording two days ago, so I'm still, I still don't even know what which end is up. But... Yeah.

00:03:00.21
Nathan Pile
ah that is true.

00:03:00.73
Kevin Shock
but

00:03:01.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah. But as a part of assembly, Kevin and I heard lots of, um, we made lots of connections with, with, uh, some of you as our listeners. Um, and so that was fun to, to see you, to get to chat a little bit about the podcast.

00:03:11.11
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:03:16.91
Nathan Pile
Um, and and, and well, and, And just about life and faith together. so Right.

00:03:24.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. We heard um Nathan i were trying to think of all the people we heard from. We talked to talk to Kate and Susan and Kayla and Shannon and Pastor Lisa.

00:03:37.90
Kevin Shock
Who else did we? There were other people, too. I can't even remember all of them that we talked to. But.

00:03:42.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah, Shannon.

00:03:44.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:03:46.11
Nathan Pile
Did say Shannon?

00:03:47.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I did. Yeah.

00:03:48.04
Nathan Pile
Oh.

00:03:48.78
Kevin Shock
But maybe there was a second Shannon, too.

00:03:48.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:03:50.26
Kevin Shock
I don't know. Yeah.

00:03:55.41
Kevin Shock
But as Nathan said, um though my title is changing and apparently my schedule will change a little bit too, we are committed this podcast.

00:04:10.57
Kevin Shock
We think this podcast is vitally important. And some of the things we heard this even this weekend ah continue to remind us of that. And, and thankful for the ways that um people have said it helps them in their sermon preparation. it helps them in their worship preparation.

00:04:28.28
Kevin Shock
um It was great to hear people talk about, ah take notes on the podcast and they, they talk someone else about it. Like that's, that's really what Nathan and I hope from this podcast is that you have the opportunity to, to either hear something on here or maybe, you know, like we say at the beginning of every,

00:04:44.05
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

00:04:47.45
Kevin Shock
every time we read the scripture, um, if, if you're meeting with a group, you can, you can just pause it. You don't have to listen to what we have to say. You can just engage this scripture with one another and see what your, uh, what your friends and relatives and fellow church siblings and everybody else, what, what they have to say and, uh, explore with you, what you think about this text. So that's, um, but it's good to hear that people are using it in that way as well.

00:05:14.28
Kevin Shock
Um, And as I said, we're committed to it.

00:05:15.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:05:18.06
Kevin Shock
As I had to think at Senate Assembly about some of the things that were going to be priorities and when I start in the role as bishop, ah the the third of three priorities I named was doing foundational work.

00:05:33.39
Kevin Shock
and And I talked about this podcast because I i think this podcast is important. um It's important for us. we We learn so much when we hear scripture, when we talk about it with somebody else, and when we let it um influence, infiltrate our lives and shape us to be the people we're going to be.

00:05:55.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:05:56.82
Kevin Shock
that's That's the work of the Holy Spirit whenever that happens. So Nathan and I want to continue doing this for a long, long time.

00:06:05.18
Nathan Pile
Well, and we we knew that this was this was coming, a synod assembly, that is, we knew that that was coming, and so we didn't know what the lay of the ground was going to be. But we told you that we knew there was going to be a season four. We just didn't know what that looks like.

00:06:18.20
Nathan Pile
um And I'm not positive we know any more than but then what Pastor or Bishop, Bishop-elect has said, um ah that we will have a season four, but we will...

00:06:27.73
Kevin Shock
It's so weird.

00:06:32.15
Nathan Pile
But we, we're still trying to figure out what that will look like. so um But we do know that we will be, we as Kevin said, this is foundational for both of us and the in in our leadership.

00:06:41.04
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:06:43.56
Nathan Pile
It helps to be able to be immersed in scripture weekly. And so... We enjoy being able to do that together. And so we know that we're both committed to doing that. And, and we'll see how the the season goes. But we know there will be season four.

00:06:59.51
Nathan Pile
so So we look forward to continuing. And I'm sure there will be new ways. There will be some change that will have to occur. but, But at the same time, it'll still be Nathan and Kevin at least most of the time.

00:07:15.02
Kevin Shock
Yep, that's the hope.

00:07:15.70
Nathan Pile
So that's the hope.

00:07:19.41
Nathan Pile
All right.

00:07:20.34
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:07:20.41
Nathan Pile
Are we actually going to get to the podcast?

00:07:23.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah, let's do the podcast. So today, friends, we're going to be ah looking at Psalm 122.

00:07:24.37
Nathan Pile
Okay. Okay.

00:07:31.13
Kevin Shock
ah The translation we are using is the New Revised Standard Version, updated edition. ah You're welcome to use whatever translation is ah right in front of you or nearby. Or you can go to Bible Gateway app or BibleGateway.com and um pick from a whole bunch of translations there. But Nathan and I are looking at it in the New Revised Standard Version, updated edition.

00:07:56.22
Kevin Shock
our three questions that we're engaging today, two of them, if you're just starting to listen to this, ah two of them are

00:08:07.34
Kevin Shock
common questions. third question We use the first two questions every week. That's what I'm trying to say. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:08:18.41
Kevin Shock
And then our third question for this week, how do you build peace?

00:08:25.09
Nathan Pile
Wow.

00:08:28.72
Nathan Pile
my My head is already kind of thinking about how the heck do I build peace.

00:08:29.06
Kevin Shock
Thanks.

00:08:34.33
Nathan Pile
um

00:08:36.21
Kevin Shock
Well, read, let's read the scripture.

00:08:36.38
Nathan Pile
Well, that'll be, we'll get there. We'll get that.

00:08:39.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah, we'll get there.

00:08:39.98
Nathan Pile
Right. So um some information about your hosts. ah We are men married to women in financially stable households, white firmly in our middle age, though some of us still, as of this recording, is...

00:08:54.56
Nathan Pile
Some of us are still 49. um ah College and seminary.

00:08:57.76
Kevin Shock
Yes, but... If you're listening to this recording on the day that it drops, in one week, Nathan will be 50. One week from today, Nathan will be 50.

00:09:10.41
Nathan Pile
But this is my last. This is the last podcast I can say I'm still 49. And it be accurate. So I'm holding on to it, buddy. I'm holding on to it.

00:09:18.80
Kevin Shock
yeah Good. Good for you. Good for you.

00:09:22.08
Nathan Pile
ah We are college and seminary educated.

00:09:22.16
Kevin Shock
ah

00:09:25.93
Nathan Pile
We work in the Lutheran Church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it. But none of it this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:09:37.34
Nathan Pile
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life perspective and experience.

00:09:54.96
Nathan Pile
Psalm 122. two

00:10:05.34
Nathan Pile
I was glad when they said to me, Let us go to the house of the Lord. Our feet are standing within our- your gates, O Jerusalem. Jerusaleme- Jerusalem, built as a city that is bound firmly together.

00:10:21.33
Nathan Pile
To it the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord, as was decreed for Israel, to give thanks in to the name of the Lord. For there the thrones of judgment were set up, the thrones of the house of David.

00:10:36.46
Nathan Pile
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. May they prosper who love you. Peace be within your walls and security within your towers.

00:10:48.00
Nathan Pile
For the sake of my relatives and friends, I will say, peace be within you. For the sake of the house of the Lord of God, for the Lord our God, I will seek your good.

00:11:06.79
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Kevin... answers that first question.

00:11:19.08
Nathan Pile
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text, Kevin?

00:11:23.14
Kevin Shock
ah The image that gets me is House of the Lord. um ah i think if we're looking at this in a literal fashion, it's talking about the temple.

00:11:38.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:11:38.23
Kevin Shock
It's talking about the temple. It's talking about ah the place where the temple is located. It's talking about the architecture of the temple. It's talking about um the city where the temple has been built. Yeah.

00:11:52.85
Kevin Shock
But it also... I mean, I think there are allegorical ways that we can think about the house of the Lord too. Not to remove... um

00:12:06.65
Kevin Shock
Well, no, I don't, I don't, I don't want to remove the imagery of the temple from this. i don't I don't want to do that. I just think about how the temple is... How the house of the Lord is talked about and utilized here in this psalm.

00:12:20.23
Kevin Shock
It's not just... It's not like just saying, you know, where the building where my congregation meets.

00:12:28.17
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:12:28.16
Kevin Shock
It's not, not like that. It's talking about the temple as ah sanctuary. and, And what I mean, I guess I realized I meant that in a non-churchy way, not a churchy way.

00:12:41.71
Kevin Shock
We often use sanctuary as a churchy way. um But sanctuary, I mean, a place of refuge

00:12:47.60
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:12:48.36
Kevin Shock
a place where people who are in danger can come and be safe, ah a place where the community gathers together and receives all that the community needs for its life together.

00:13:05.80
Kevin Shock
um We hear this in the psalm that its ah thrones of judgment are there,

00:13:17.45
Kevin Shock
The royal thrones are there. um And it talks about prosperity. um And prosperity, ah when I think of prosperity, I don't and it's just my inclination, I'm, I, I'm not thinking about ah everybody getting rich.

00:13:36.62
Kevin Shock
I'm not thinking about that kind of stuff. I'm thinking about prosperity in the sense that everyone has what they need to live well, to thrive. And, and so the, the, the people who love the house of the Lord, the people who come and seek refuge there, the people who gather with their, with their kindred there, the people who, um, come there for judgment, the people who, um,

00:14:07.61
Kevin Shock
the people who flock to the city from far away, ah There's a desire here in this psalm that they would that they would prosper. And in my mind, that means that they would have everything that they need to thrive.

00:14:22.26
Kevin Shock
ah There's a sense of safety and security in this house of the Lord. um There's a sense of belonging. Those are all of the things I think about when I think about the house of the Lord. And again, I don't... Although here it's talking about the temple, I think when we start to unpack everything...

00:14:43.31
Kevin Shock
um

00:14:46.68
Kevin Shock
ah

00:14:49.98
Kevin Shock
everything that the temple is for people um that can be expanded beyond the temple too I'm not going to say too much more about that without looking at some things but that's just what I'm thinking I guess, I guess, I think about if, if we say the house of the Lord um

00:15:14.65
Kevin Shock
it could, It could be greater than just one building.

00:15:19.93
Kevin Shock
But that's where I'm going to stop for right now.

00:15:21.05
Nathan Pile
Sure. Well, and the temple was massive.

00:15:25.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, sure.

00:15:26.14
Nathan Pile
The actual structure of the temple is mass- is, is massive.

00:15:26.49
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:15:34.97
Nathan Pile
Because all of it was considered

00:15:35.43
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:15:37.74
Nathan Pile
the temple, like all of the different layers. if, If you have a decent study Bible, they probably have a map of of what the temple looked like. And there's different level, you there was one level that that that

00:15:57.96
Nathan Pile
the outsiders were allowed at one one level of of the temple. And then the next level is like the women, Jewish women, and then Jewish men, and then priests, and then the high priest. you know, So there's there's different spaces and and

00:16:22.42
Nathan Pile
and architecture that includes all of those different levels. So it was a significant structure, that, that temple.

00:16:32.38
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:16:37.47
Kevin Shock
What about you, Nathan? What word phrase or image?

00:16:39.47
Nathan Pile
Um, the thing that struck me was that very first line as I was reading it.

00:16:43.48
Nathan Pile
I was glad, um, when they said to me, and so it it kind of had me off, um,

00:16:56.65
Nathan Pile
It had me ah off the kind of thinking about ah things that make me glad. Obviously I was at Synod Assembly. And so the announcement of your election, that was a moment of glad rejoicing within all of the assembly that we had elected a new Bishop.

00:17:12.45
Nathan Pile
um But that these ideas of, of, of being glad here,

00:17:21.58
Nathan Pile
what the image that popped into my head. Uh, I happened to be serving communion yesterday at a local, um, a local congregation in Johnstown.

00:17:33.93
Nathan Pile
And the it was a young family that came up to the altar rail. And there were four kids.

00:17:44.57
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:17:44.64
Nathan Pile
I think there were four of them. It might've been three. Anyway, they were all, all young. And happened to give the oldest one communion first, but then I, I, went next, you know, kept moving down the line, the altar rail and and gave it to the,

00:18:01.68
Nathan Pile
younger two kids as well. And I usually always check with parents to make sure that they're supposed to get communion, but these kids already had communion cups. So I knew that they were to get communion, but the face of the two youngest boys were like,

00:18:12.57
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:18:16.90
Kevin Shock
you

00:18:17.30
Nathan Pile
ecstatic ecstasy to be, to being receiving the bread into their hand.

00:18:17.45
Kevin Shock
Really?

00:18:23.13
Nathan Pile
You know, they were just overjoyed, um and which, you know, made my heart let, leap in my own chest, kind of like, ah, this is what this is, you know

00:18:23.26
Kevin Shock
really

00:18:34.38
Nathan Pile
here's, here's how we engage the Holy meal. how, How can I have the same exuberance as these young boys did? and There was a light in their eye, like just a glint, you know, you know what that's like when when somebody, and so this idea of I am glad um took me right back to that communion rail that, you know, this weekend of,

00:18:55.42
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:18:57.47
Nathan Pile
I am glad when they said, let's go to the house. you know So here's, here's the the psalmist, David, is who gets typical... authorship by tradition, whether or not it was actually David who wrote it, it very well could be.

00:19:15.01
Nathan Pile
um But this idea of um of, I am, you know, overjoyed, I'm ecstatic that that you've said to me, let's go to the house of the Lord. yeah These young boys' faces made me kind of feel that, um,

00:19:31.58
Nathan Pile
And so as I saw, as we started to read this passage, or I started to read this passage, that was the thing that kind of jumped up, that that exuberance, that youthful exuberance that they had of, you know, where I was sharing communion, is I was, I was visiting, I was filling in.

00:19:40.86
Kevin Shock
Mm.

00:19:50.48
Nathan Pile
And so I don't know how long these young boys have been taking communion. I would assume it's still kind of a new thing for them, but I don't know that for sure. Yeah. But boy, were they ecstatic. Now I did hear from their mother afterwards that sometimes he takes the bread and puts it in his pocket to eat it later.

00:20:10.95
Kevin Shock
What?

00:20:11.71
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I don't know.

00:20:13.11
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:20:13.27
Nathan Pile
I didn't catch that in the moment, but maybe he does do that.

00:20:14.23
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:20:19.33
Nathan Pile
And she just said, and I said, what did he do today? And she's like, I don't, I haven't checked his pocket yet.

00:20:28.12
Nathan Pile
Kind of a thing.

00:20:28.33
Kevin Shock
ah okay

00:20:28.88
Nathan Pile
But

00:20:30.33
Nathan Pile
But like anyway, and then again, it was just the the the the that moment. and And to think of that um that excitement, um the excitement that I saw on their face in the moment, like, boy, what what what wouldn't that be like here as I read this psalm? and And I'm, you know, I was so glad to go with you to the house of the Lord.

00:20:52.55
Kevin Shock
Mmm, mhm.

00:20:52.62
Nathan Pile
um You know, and what that with that kind of lights up for me in my own um after yesterday's experience, it was kind of fun.

00:21:03.54
Nathan Pile
And, and I wasn't, it wasn't lost on me that yesterday was all saints. And yes, we celebrate those who have gone before us, but we also celebrate that we're all saints.

00:21:08.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:21:13.89
Nathan Pile
um And so this young this young um man, um well, the the whole group of all three of them were were just kind of fun to to be with, but all of them were

00:21:14.81
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:21:28.70
Nathan Pile
were overjoyed and and to see them as a saint, you know, because they absolutely obviously proclaimed to me by their actions and their faces that day, um their excitement to be in that space and then at that table with everyone else, including all of those who have, who have passed away.

00:21:47.88
Nathan Pile
um And so that was a, it was just kind of a fun way to celebrate because we had, we had remembered all of those who have passed away earlier in the service. But to then see, I don't know, a three-year-old boy's face light up at the table.

00:22:04.28
Nathan Pile
um

00:22:05.24
Kevin Shock
Three.

00:22:06.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. He was young.

00:22:06.97
Kevin Shock
Wow.

00:22:07.34
Nathan Pile
They were young.

00:22:07.79
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:22:08.40
Nathan Pile
They were young.

00:22:08.61
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:22:09.32
Nathan Pile
um

00:22:09.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:22:12.10
Nathan Pile
And so to see the youngest was probably three. I think the next one was probably four, four or five. And then the oldest wasn't older than six or seven and of the, of the three.

00:22:22.09
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:22:23.14
Nathan Pile
And so yeah, So yeah, it was just there was the that that image of gladness, of of excitement to be um

00:22:36.64
Nathan Pile
with God in the midst of God um in that moment. Again, it was ah it was kind of fun. And then to read it here today in this passage also kind of strikes me that way. It's also not lost on me that...

00:22:51.59
Nathan Pile
that, that we have the middle, middle, middle section and it felt very, and and I know it's not, maybe it's intended that way. It felt very political in the middle of it. and then And then we get the piece on the other side of this um song.

00:23:07.26
Nathan Pile
Uh, But we'll,

00:23:10.02
Kevin Shock
the, the, The section just about the Thrones of Judgment there, is that what you is that what you're talking about?

00:23:15.22
Nathan Pile
yeah, yeah. I guess it's because of the language of thrones and and tribes, you know, that that piece of,

00:23:16.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:20.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:23:24.68
Kevin Shock
Oh.

00:23:24.77
Nathan Pile
Of what that is, you know, and so.

00:23:25.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah, that this is then maybe this is for some people, but not for everybody.

00:23:30.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:23:31.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:32.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:23:33.51
Kevin Shock
Right. Tribal. Tribal language. Yeah.

00:23:35.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:23:36.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I-

00:23:37.61
Nathan Pile
Well, and and you're to do it. you're You are the tribes of Israel. You're to do this. This has been decreed. Felt more, more governance like than it than, than the initial response of a delighted heart.

00:23:44.40
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:50.51
Kevin Shock
Oh, I see.

00:23:51.90
Nathan Pile
You know, so that's all.

00:23:52.82
Kevin Shock
I see. Yeah. Yeah. I, yeah. No, I understand that. I, I do think, I think for me, the whole, the overriding feel of that, that gladness permeates throughout the Psalm.

00:24:07.09
Kevin Shock
And so even the decree is a joyous thing that this isn't, this isn't, well, I mean, that, that still exists in our world today, doesn't it?

00:24:17.63
Kevin Shock
Where people, children, adults probably too, say, do we have to go to church? yeah

00:24:26.44
Nathan Pile
Right?

00:24:27.73
Kevin Shock
But, but it sounds like the experience you had on Sunday was those, those kids, I'm sure there are Sunday mornings where those kids ask their parents that question, but,

00:24:35.89
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:24:36.12
Kevin Shock
it sounds like that's on yesterday was not that case.

00:24:39.56
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:24:39.66
Kevin Shock
They were, they were eager to go.

00:24:40.26
Nathan Pile
At least not at the communion rail. not a- They could have been giving him a rough time in the pew.

00:24:42.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah. They, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were eager to go. I, um, yeah, I, I think about, uh, kids that, um, uh, a little friend of mine at my home congregation, um it was uh yesterday was the time change.

00:25:05.26
Kevin Shock
And so there was, I heard some people talking about how, uh, some parents talking about how it was rough on their kids.

00:25:06.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

00:25:13.05
Kevin Shock
Cause the kids were up super early and, you know, already ready for nap time by the time church rolled around. Um, and, um, but I, uh, I noticed there was one section uh,

00:25:28.37
Kevin Shock
The whole family, I mean, you know this is a church where everyone knows everyone and everyone's everything's pretty safe. So the whole family, ah the other three people in the family were gone from the pew attending to other things.

00:25:43.63
Kevin Shock
And, and the little girl in the family was left there while she's the oldest. But, but um during, we were singing, this is the feast. And the entire time we were singing, now granted, we're in the last pew.

00:25:57.03
Kevin Shock
I don't think she was aware that there were probably people in the balcony who could see her, but she didn't she knew that people couldn't generally see her. And she was doing these motions with her arms and hands the entire time we were singing, this is the feast.

00:26:12.63
Kevin Shock
And I was like, this is the, I was thinking to myself, this is the best liturgical dance I've ever seen. It's just this impromptu moment of this little girl just having fun and dancing with the song, but it's a, but it's a celebratory song.

00:26:24.33
Nathan Pile
Dancing with the song. Yeah.

00:26:28.00
Kevin Shock
It's a, it's a song that talks about, you know, this is, this is the gathering time for God's people. This is where God feeds us. This is, this is where we delight in the Lord. This is all of the, all of the good stuff that God has given us.

00:26:40.53
Kevin Shock
This is what we're celebrating here at this meal at this place. Um, and she was celebrating it in a way that no one else was.

00:26:44.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:26:48.44
Kevin Shock
And it was just a joy to see that. Yeah.

00:26:51.33
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:26:51.72
Kevin Shock
Um, I, Going back to think about, you said the political stuff too, Nathan. The other thing ah that came to mind for me is i I had to look it up, but I knew it was in scripture somewhere.

00:27:02.29
Kevin Shock
In Psalm 24, also a psalm attributed to David, also and a temple entrance psalm. ah The first two verses of that are, the earth is the Lord's and all that is in it, the world and those who live in it, for he has founded it on the seas and established it on the rivers.

00:27:23.76
Kevin Shock
And that to me, I think was in the back of my head when I was thinking of that expansive imagery of the house of the Lord.

00:27:30.55
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:27:30.98
Kevin Shock
um Certainly it means the temple, but it also means all of creation. ah And there's a

00:27:40.94
Kevin Shock
there's there's a joy in God's action and God's goodness to us all throughout creation, not just in the temple. It certainly is in the temple, but it's not just in the temple.

00:27:52.43
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:27:52.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:56.84
Kevin Shock
Well, OK.

00:27:57.22
Nathan Pile
All right. You want to do a second time?

00:27:58.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah, let's read it. ah Sorry, just smacked my microphone there. I'm sure people will hear that. um Yeah, let's look at it a second time.

00:28:08.88
Kevin Shock
Psalm 122. I was glad when they said to me, let us go to the house of the Lord. Our feet are standing within your gates, O Jerusalem. Jerusalem built as a city that is bound firmly together.

00:28:22.98
Kevin Shock
To it the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord, as was decreed for Israel, to give thanks to the name of the Lord. For there the thrones for judgment were set up, the thrones of the house of David.

00:28:34.82
Kevin Shock
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. May they prosper who love you. Peace be within your walls and security within your towers. For the sake of my relatives and friends, I will say, peace be within you.

00:28:47.80
Kevin Shock
For the sake of the house of the Lord our God, I will seek your good.

00:28:53.54
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:29:01.09
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:29:06.05
Nathan Pile
um I'm, I'm not ah completely clear. I have the words that I'm going to say to you of what I feel called to do, but I'm not completely sure I have a full vision of what that is yet.

00:29:13.80
Kevin Shock
okay

00:29:17.45
Nathan Pile
Um, from just this passage. So I believe, um, I feel called towards peace and good.

00:29:26.17
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and, um,

00:29:28.11
Kevin Shock
okay

00:29:32.22
Nathan Pile
But the specifics are a little lacking for me in this passage of, of what exactly that looks like. And so, um so ah 'cause, 'cause we're, the psalmist

00:29:47.21
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

00:29:49.15
Nathan Pile
is, is, is, uh, is, is um requesting peace

00:29:57.39
Nathan Pile
and good for us

00:30:00.73
Nathan Pile
And so hearing that,

00:30:07.62
Nathan Pile
the, the fleshing out of what peace and good are in the psalmist's time and in my time, I would imagine are a little different. um Because I think, i think the the again, what I've considered to be, and I said political, and I shouldn't say political. I should say more about, it feels more government-based.

00:30:30.31
Nathan Pile
e to me that those verses three, four, and five, because politics is, is, ah is more about us as people, I think.

00:30:31.84
Kevin Shock
Oh, I see. Yeah. Yep.

00:30:38.18
Nathan Pile
And this is more about the structure of who they were as God's people at that time, the Jerusalem, the Holy city, um, it's gates, it's, um, it's thrones, um, what's been decreed.

00:30:53.20
Nathan Pile
and so that feels much more about government structure and what that, and who they are as God's people. And, and, and, And obviously in the the Old Testament, First Testament, um there is um ah direct correlation to being God's people and how they've gone about setting up their government.

00:31:16.33
Kevin Shock
Mmm, mmm.

00:31:16.50
Nathan Pile
For us, that's very different today.

00:31:19.17
Kevin Shock
It is, yes.

00:31:19.75
Nathan Pile
And so hearing about the Holy City, hearing about the thrones, hearing about the walls and the towers... that doesn't necessarily, those aren't things, they bring up the idea of safety to me, but they're not really what makes me feel safe today.

00:31:41.60
Nathan Pile
um And so that's the part of trying to define define for myself peace and and good, you know, 3,000 years after this psalm has been written down.

00:31:53.80
Kevin Shock
Mm. Mm-hmm.

00:31:59.06
Nathan Pile
um Because I hear ah hear that that's what the psalmist says is um calling forth, a prayer for peace. um

00:32:12.88
Nathan Pile
But trying to figure out how that plays in, because the

00:32:19.92
Nathan Pile
the walls and the towers and the decree of the tribes of Israel going to the temple...

00:32:29.89
Nathan Pile
um, those pieces are a little bit more foreign to me. the

00:32:34.71
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:32:35.22
Nathan Pile
the the Going back to that first verse, um the delight or the gladness of going to the house of the Lord,

00:32:43.68
Nathan Pile
ah

00:32:47.44
Nathan Pile
that what would be a better source for me.

00:32:52.21
Nathan Pile
I'm able to, I'm able to think about that being the source of my peace and goodness that has been given to me from God. But even the the structure of the church, because like of of of a church building, I'll be honest, in my 13 years as the executive director at, at, at camp, a church building is, is delightful, but it's probably lost some of its stature in my life in that I worship outside 50% of the the year for me.

00:33:31.81
Nathan Pile
um Well, maybe not 50% of the year, maybe a ah third of the year.

00:33:35.24
Kevin Shock
But a greater percentage than just about anyone else does.

00:33:38.66
Nathan Pile
But ah yeah, probably greater than most any most anybody else. Because we worship every day, Sunday to Friday, outside of camp, most typically, unless it's pouring down rain

00:33:42.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:33:47.74
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:33:50.16
Nathan Pile
is the only day that we're in those, those days we go inside, but and we have multiple outside chapels. We use the swimming pool one night, usually. um And lots of fire circles.

00:34:03.36
Nathan Pile
And so we're outside every night that we can be, which, you know, over the course of 10 weeks, you know, let's, that's, that's 60 worship services.

00:34:14.76
Nathan Pile
And probably 40 of them are outside. So that idea for what, as you talk about, when you went back to Psalm 24, that helped me to better think about what I would, it gives me a ah much fuller sense of, of what I think about as, as God's temple or God's home.

00:34:36.76
Nathan Pile
You know, I joke, from time to time with you, Kevin, with a couple of others that, you know, I serve the largest cathedral in the Allegheny Synod, uh, cause it's for four, it's 400 acres.

00:34:45.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:34:45.97
Nathan Pile
um, so

00:34:47.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right.

00:34:47.90
Nathan Pile
um and And we didn't build it. um

00:34:53.32
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:34:53.47
Nathan Pile
it was, It was given, it was, you know, yeah we part purchased it, but God god was the is the architect of our of our chapel spaces.

00:34:53.94
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:35:00.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:35:02.09
Nathan Pile
so

00:35:02.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:35:02.79
Nathan Pile
um So that very much, so like those pieces, that piece and that good um

00:35:13.37
Nathan Pile
like fit for me. Like as I go back to re-envisioning what the house of the Lord is for me in this time, as opposed to for David 3,000 years ago.

00:35:28.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:35:30.05
Nathan Pile
And so being able to do that in my own head here a little bit, just and in even talking through this, that helps me to see peace and goodness again. In a way that that, again, I think a david David is attributing to the temple and to that holy city.

00:35:46.79
Nathan Pile
But for me, the temple and the holy city have less meaning 3,000 years displaced. But if I, if I take the space that has become my holy space, which is here, Sequanota, the outside world, the the feelings of David make some sense to me in that idea of peace and and good.

00:36:13.04
Nathan Pile
They're just not tied to a physical structure.

00:36:16.91
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Okay.

00:36:18.51
Nathan Pile
if that makes some sense. But I probably, at the beginning of my answer, I probably wasn't there as much as I am now as I think about this.

00:36:20.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's.

00:36:24.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I, yeah, just and a little add on to something you said there toward the end. It's 3000 years and and the removal from that space. But also we have to recognize that as Christian people, we don't have the same attachment to the temple and to the city that the Jewish people do.

00:36:45.63
Nathan Pile
right.

00:36:46.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, I just think that's important to lift up. um But anyway, um

00:37:00.32
Kevin Shock
well, that gives me a lot to think about. I appreciate that. it That it's a pretty expansive reading that you have there. and And when you're dealing with concepts, like what did you say? Peace and good. but Those were your, yeah, there's a, yeah.

00:37:10.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah, that's what I feel called toward, to, to live towards those things.

00:37:14.53
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:37:15.36
Nathan Pile
and And again, here the psalmist is, isn't saying that I give you peace and good. they're, they're, they're,

00:37:24.10
Nathan Pile
They're seeking to

00:37:27.79
Nathan Pile
to, to, to give peace and good.

00:37:31.11
Kevin Shock
Mhm, mhm.

00:37:31.82
Nathan Pile
its you know Again, through God being more the source of that.

00:37:41.86
Nathan Pile
How about you, my friend? Toward what is God calling you in this passage?

00:37:44.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I don't, I don't want to jump the gun to the third question. um So maybe I'll keep this one short. I peace, peace of course, is a part of this for me too.

00:37:57.23
Kevin Shock
um

00:38:00.27
Kevin Shock
and I think because we hear it a couple of times toward the end of the reading, but for the same reasons I mentioned at the beginning about that, just that overwhelming sense of sanctuary, of safety, of provision and goodness that, that is a part of this place that the Psalm is talking about.

00:38:21.75
Kevin Shock
Um, I, I think, I, I think I'm feeling the way I, to articulate it, I think I'm feeling called toward participating in peace.

00:38:35.08
Kevin Shock
um That the house of the Lord isn't just a place that I go to receive peace, although that certainly happens. But then, I, I envision the people leaving the house of the Lord, or ah like you said, if this is a, or like you alluded to, if this is a more expansive reading of it, then maybe you you never leave the house of the Lord.

00:39:01.35
Kevin Shock
um and, And so, but anyway, leaving the house of the Lord, going forth from that place, carrying that peace with you so that the the goodness, the peace that exists within those walls, you carry outside of those walls.

00:39:22.63
Kevin Shock
And I think those are things that we talk about in worship a lot. um We talk about the church being the church outside of the walls of the building. We talk about the church not being the building, but being the people.

00:39:34.50
Kevin Shock
um There's just a sense of, for me here in this reading, that ah we receive that peace in this holy place, and then we take that peace out into the world with us.

00:39:49.61
Kevin Shock
That that's...

00:39:52.47
Kevin Shock
not Not decree, not out of compulsion, like don't um you know don't waste the peace you've received. you know Share peace with others or else you're out of God's favor. You're not going to be welcomed back in the house.

00:40:08.03
Kevin Shock
not Not things like that. But part of the nature of peace is that we carry it with us and that we share it with others.

00:40:22.00
Kevin Shock
and And maybe not even, I don't even know if share it is the right word. I think that if people are in a place of peace, other people feel peaceful around them.

00:40:37.66
Kevin Shock
I know we you know we've all heard that description of someone being the calming presence in the room. Well, the calming presence has to be calm themselves.

00:40:49.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah. calm isn't something that you bring into the room because you know how to create calm. No calm comes into the room because you bring the calm with you and, and you, you yourself know the calm and are experiencing the calm.

00:41:03.92
Kevin Shock
You switch that word out for peace, the peaceful presence. um Yeah. And so I also think of ah this, this weekend

00:41:15.52
Kevin Shock
had a lot of people saying a lot of things to me and, and, And I was able to say that whatever happens, whatever the outcome of the election is, whoever gets called to the role of bishop, I'm at peace with it.

00:41:33.17
Kevin Shock
and And it was true. And I don't, I think I was, I think ah, I think I was ready for this role because I truly felt that way about it. That if, if I, if I got called to be the bishop,

00:41:48.23
Kevin Shock
I'm at peace with that. if I, If someone else got called and I was going to stay in the office as assistant to the bishop, I'm at peace with that. if, If I was going to end up going back to a congregation, I'm at peace with that. if I, this is the, This is what the um example I always use. I don't, Maybe this is a retirement job for me.

00:42:08.67
Kevin Shock
If I end up stocking shelves at Trader Joe's, I'm at peace with that. and And the reason I was able to say that is because with the help of other people, I could articulate that I'm going to find ministry wherever I go.

00:42:21.92
Kevin Shock
and And that call, my baptismal call, won't ever change. Yeah.

00:42:30.59
Kevin Shock
But ah ah a a metaphor that was greatly helpful to me was a dear friend of mine and of yours too, Nathan, Pastor Steve Lynn. ah He texted me.

00:42:43.82
Kevin Shock
We had had a conversation about that piece a week ago. And he texted me on Friday morning and said,

00:42:57.82
Kevin Shock
said that he was praying that I would stay in that cocoon of peace.

00:43:03.87
Kevin Shock
And, uh, and I didn't get to say this in my speech. I ran out of time, but, um, but the cocoon, I was so, I was just so glad that that was the metaphor he landed on because it is, it is peaceful, but it's also a cocoon is a place of transformation and change and growth.

00:43:28.13
Kevin Shock
And, uh, and I think that that's what peace does for us. I think that peace causes us to grow and causes us to transform. And, um,

00:43:45.69
Kevin Shock
yeah, I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what else to say. I don't know what else to say, but that's what I envision. and That's what I feel called to in this reading to, to continue to,

00:43:57.05
Kevin Shock
if If I'm at peace, then let that shape me. Let that transform me so that other people are at peace when they're in my presence too.

00:44:09.91
Kevin Shock
and And I think that that's a beautiful image for this psalm. Im- Imagining all of those tribes of people flocking out of the temple, all at peace, and what that means for the communities that they go back to.

00:44:28.39
Nathan Pile
yeah Yeah, that's the image of them flocking out, the flock of people leaving in peace. That's a powerful image.

00:44:38.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's, there's a sense for me that if the peace, in verse 8 it says, for the sake of my relatives and friends, I will say peace be within you.

00:44:48.58
Kevin Shock
it, it, If peace is within the house of the Lord, then peace is going to be outside of the house of the Lord as well.

00:45:00.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's the way I feel about it Well, you can see how this all leads to third question stuff for me. so Okay.

00:45:08.70
Nathan Pile
Right. Yep. It is there. right, let's do it a third time.

00:45:16.40
Nathan Pile
I was glad when they said to me, let us go to the house of the Lord. Our feet are standing within your gates, O Jerusalem. Jerusalem, built as a city that is bound firmly together.

00:45:30.85
Nathan Pile
To it the tribes go up, the tribes of the Lord, as was decreed for Israel to give thanks to the name of the Lord. For there the thrones for judgment were set up, the thrones of the house of David.

00:45:46.21
Nathan Pile
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. May they prosper who love you. Peace be within your walls, and security within your towers. For the sake of my relatives and friends, I will say, peace be within you.

00:46:03.15
Nathan Pile
For the sake of the house of the Lord, our God, I will seek your good.

00:46:13.24
Nathan Pile
ah Kevin, how do you build peace?

00:46:18.92
Kevin Shock
um Well, I know, I know it's easier to do when you're at peace yourself. um And I also know how fleeting peace can feel.

00:46:29.43
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:46:29.56
Kevin Shock
but the ah I know that um less than 48 hours after ah after Synod Assembly ended, the, the um, the high that I'm riding right now isn't going to last.

00:46:43.86
Kevin Shock
I know that.

00:46:44.11
Nathan Pile
ah

00:46:45.88
Kevin Shock
I know it's not. um that's okay. I know that the, the congratulatory emails will be replaced by the critical emails or the emails. ah We need you to do this for us, which I, I know comes with the territory.

00:47:02.05
Kevin Shock
um

00:47:04.82
Kevin Shock
I think, ah

00:47:10.75
Kevin Shock
you know, um Jesus, when he says in Matthew, Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

00:47:22.75
Kevin Shock
um That is a meaningful text to me because it says to me, you can't you can't think your way into a new way of acting, but you can act your way into a new way of thinking.

00:47:44.56
Kevin Shock
or believing or trusting you can act your way into a new way. You can, um, you know, what's the, what's the more modern phrase fake it till you make it. Um, and I think, uh, I think some small things that I do,

00:48:02.01
Kevin Shock
and have just become practice for me is um is greeting people in a Christian manner. Now, I don't do it with people that I know. I don't, I don't do it outside of church circles. Maybe I should do it outside of church circles. I don't know.

00:48:15.62
Kevin Shock
But a lot of times in church circles, when I'm seeing someone and um interacting with them and we'll be having a conversation with them, ah a lot of times I try to say,

00:48:30.50
Kevin Shock
I try to start the conversation by saying, peace be with you. And because that's, it's it's how Paul greeted his communities. It's, it's, it's how, it's how ah the pastor greets the congregation and the congregation greets the pastor back ah during worship.

00:48:38.44
Nathan Pile
He did yeah

00:48:46.71
Kevin Shock
It's just, it's ah it's language that is a part of our Christian culture. um I mean, real Christian culture, I don't mean like, you know, never, you know what I mean, church culture.

00:48:58.34
Nathan Pile
yeah church culture

00:48:59.77
Kevin Shock
Faithful, culture of faith, language of faith. it's, it's Peace be with you is language of faith. And sometimes I think that i I say that to people even when I'm not at peace.

00:49:10.86
Kevin Shock
And the, the usual response is, and also with you, or peace be with you. And if someone is saying it to me, then maybe I'm going to start to believe it.

00:49:22.79
Kevin Shock
But even if I say it for someone else and they don't respond with that, ah maybe I'm starting to believe it then too. And so that's just one, I think that's just one small way.

00:49:33.20
Kevin Shock
um I think I can be that calming presence when I'm calm myself. And I think that I have, I'm learning as I get older to look for the things that bring me peace.

00:49:49.32
Kevin Shock
And some of those things are secular things like, you know, uh, at the end of the day, instead of opening in my email inbox again, like putting on my headphones and listening to a record or something like that, like that can be, that can bring me peace.

00:50:04.80
Kevin Shock
But I also know that um, um centering prayer, thoughtful prayer can bring me peace.

00:50:04.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:50:11.50
Kevin Shock
I also know that ah getting out of my own head and out of my own house and being around other people and having conversation with them, it doesn't even have to be meaningful conversation that can bring me peace.

00:50:29.03
Kevin Shock
Making a human connection can bring me peace um because I know that God is there in those human connections.

00:50:32.14
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:50:37.40
Kevin Shock
So for me, I. The original question was, how do you seek peace? But I changed it because I want, I wanted to us you and me to think about, and I want the people who are listening to this podcast to think about not just how we create peace for ourselves, but how we create peace for the people around us as well.

00:51:00.63
Kevin Shock
and But I do think that I think that peace for the people around us starts with peace for ourselves.

00:51:05.86
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, I'm absolutely with you there. I think are for us to be able to,

00:51:08.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:51:12.96
Nathan Pile
Welcome others into peace. We have to have sought some peace for ourselves.

00:51:18.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah, agreed.

00:51:20.30
Nathan Pile
We we need to. And, and peace is, is just as you said, instead of opening your emails, you're going to play a record. um It's creating some space. for ourselves to, to, and to engage our own thoughts, our own feelings, to engage with God, to listen to music that inspires us, whatever whatever those pieces are, but making that space to invite God and peace into our own hearts and spirits so that we're nourished

00:51:42.87
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:51:57.64
Nathan Pile
in, in ways that we can then help welcome others into peace. I think is, you know, I love, I like the idea of that idea of building pieces that, that just how you change the question just a little bit.

00:52:10.72
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:52:10.83
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:52:12.82
Nathan Pile
of being able to do that. My space and place for peace, obviously for me is the woods. And so I know for you, it is ah a nice chair in your renovated room with a record playing with your headphones on, listening to every little, a little detail.

00:52:33.79
Nathan Pile
So, so, uh, Tend Nation, we should um we should make sure that we're looking to invest in vinyl records for Bishop Elect, so that he has plenty of peace.

00:52:45.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah,

00:52:46.37
Kevin Shock
You don't, no. don't have to do that.

00:52:48.46
Nathan Pile
yeah no, that's that's true, but...

00:52:48.93
Kevin Shock
I don't, um I'll run out of room eventually. I'll, yeah, go ahead.

00:52:54.05
Nathan Pile
Um, the, but, but I, but I do think that, but being able to, for ourselves, be able to think about what is it that provides peace? There's, you know, there would be also be times that I would say family time provides peace for me.

00:53:10.10
Nathan Pile
Um, And so being able to to discern how I make more time in my schedule for family time, hum both at home, at home family time, but also my, I have a close extended family.

00:53:19.89
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:53:25.74
Nathan Pile
And so how do I, how do I get to to be with them and that group as well, making time to, whether it's a picnic, running over for a picnic or a dinner out together or whatever that might be.

00:53:31.40
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:53:36.85
Nathan Pile
But so, um, but being able to have that time of peace, or a a walk in the woods where I'm able to connect to the Holy, um, in my own thoughts and prayers.

00:53:50.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:53:52.31
Nathan Pile
Um, um, even our time together here like this helps me to connect to that Holy space and provide some of that peace.

00:54:02.40
Nathan Pile
Um, and then, and then being able to build it is, is,

00:54:02.96
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:54:10.86
Nathan Pile
Sometimes as, as complicated as making space for God to enter the space and to bring that peace.

00:54:21.41
Nathan Pile
And sometimes I feel, that feels easy to do. maybe because it's creating a worship service and I and I know how to build a liturgy and how to make that happen. I think other times it can be more complex when you're trying to create a re retreat experience or even a worship experience that you're trying to, to invoke that idea of peace.

00:54:45.24
Nathan Pile
But being able to kind of sit and think about what is it that that can help to bring peace into that space for the diversity of people who might be walking into that space with us.

00:55:00.52
Nathan Pile
And so ah thinking about, um again, I think that the source of peace comes from God.

00:55:01.24
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:55:08.42
Nathan Pile
Even if I'm a curator of peace or in this way, and your, your question, a builder of peace, the

00:55:19.19
Nathan Pile
the

00:55:21.93
Nathan Pile
The best I can feel like I can do is is to build some structure in which God and the Holy Spirit comes in and hangs peace all over it because of because of who God is, that God's able to to use me and the and and and the space or place and time in such a way that helps people encounter, um, encounter that

00:55:51.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah, just hearing you talk makes me realize that this... this

00:55:59.55
Kevin Shock
Peace, built building peace.

00:56:04.28
Kevin Shock
Hmm, how do I want to say it? Building peace includes seeking peace for ourselves.

00:56:10.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:56:10.17
Kevin Shock
um But seeking peace for ourselves can end with us. We don't, it doesn't, it doesn't, and especially if we're speaking if we're seeking peace in fleeting ways.

00:56:17.57
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure.

00:56:23.67
Kevin Shock
um I, Yeah, I don't know. I think I have a lot of conversations with people about self care and I think self care is vitally important in our world today. It's even more important when we're constantly distracted when, when, when ways of self care aren't automatically built into our culture. Like I feel like they used to be, um time off family time, things like that are not a given nowadays.

00:56:55.73
Kevin Shock
Um, But I do think that I've known people in situations where people have used self-care as an excuse to disengage entirely from their work, their life, their family, whatever it might be. And I don't think, I think that goes overboard for me.

00:57:20.89
Kevin Shock
don't think, don't think self-care is about disengaging. I think it's about engaging in things that are life giving, not just to you, but to the people around you as well.

00:57:32.07
Kevin Shock
And um

00:57:35.27
Kevin Shock
yeah, so I, ah there's something about that building peace, building peace is seeking peace. But seeking peace doesn't necessarily doesn't lead to building peace.

00:57:49.18
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:57:50.75
Kevin Shock
And also, I think that just seeking peace for ourselves doesn't necessarily result in us finding peace.

00:57:50.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:59.49
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure.

00:58:00.75
Kevin Shock
But I think that building peace might result in us finding peace. Going back to that quote of Jesus that I used right from the beginning, that we can we can act our way into trusting something or believing something or knowing something.

00:58:18.20
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:58:20.79
Kevin Shock
But we can't. It doesn't work the other way around.

00:58:24.69
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:58:25.87
Kevin Shock
Then it just turns into our exercise plan. Oh, I'll get to it tomorrow. I want to exercise. But I'll just get to it tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes.

00:58:39.33
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

00:58:43.31
Kevin Shock
Well, any, any other thoughts, Nathan, about peace or the house of the Lord or this Psalm 122?

00:58:52.61
Nathan Pile
No, I don't think so.

00:58:54.92
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right. Well, um this is this coming Sunday, friends, is the it's the new it's a new season. So it's a new church year. And it is the first Sunday of Advent in our tradition and in other historical traditions.

00:59:11.04
Kevin Shock
um So there will be lots of readings that look toward God arriving on the scene. um And I think that peace is a part of that.

00:59:23.76
Kevin Shock
So we hear in our additional texts for this week, and, and we encourage you to engage these texts if you would like.

00:59:24.07
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:59:30.00
Kevin Shock
ah Isaiah chapter two, verses one through five, weapons of war are transformed into weapons of instruments of peace. um Romans chapter 13 verses 11 through 14, salvation is near time to wake from sleep.

00:59:47.92
Kevin Shock
And then Matthew 24 verses 36 through 44 talks about the sudden coming of the son of man. As always, Nathan, I appreciate your reflections and, and we really appreciate the reflections of people who listen to this podcast. It helps shape what we do and and how we think about things. So we encourage you to continue doing that with us.

01:00:09.85
Kevin Shock
And we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:00:14.46
Nathan Pile
And peace.