S4 Episode 8: Isaiah 42:1-9

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What is God’s justice?

Additional texts:

Isaiah 60:1-6

Psalm 72:1-7, 10-14

Ephesians 3:1-12

Matthew 2:1-12

Psalm 29

Acts 10:34-43

Matthew 3:13-17

Transcript

00:02.50
Nathan Pile
Oh, what a wonderfully rainy, dreary, miserable day, Kevin.

00:10.75
Kevin Shock
Rainy.

00:12.23
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:13.11
Kevin Shock
We got, we have white stuff on the ground here.

00:15.58
Nathan Pile
Oh, we got white stuff on the ground, but it's raining here.

00:18.87
Kevin Shock
Oh, I mean, we got new white stuff on the ground.

00:18.94
Nathan Pile
um

00:22.33
Nathan Pile
We had some last night, but I think between you and me is the line of we've converted to rain this morning.

00:26.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. you

00:30.02
Nathan Pile
So when I was out.

00:30.69
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:32.31
Nathan Pile
out walking the dog, the which is, surprise everyone, I have a new dog. um um ah we We got wet this morning walking.

00:38.18
Kevin Shock
Nathan has a new dog.

00:45.50
Nathan Pile
So I was like, it, this would have been lovely if it was snow, but that was not what we were getting.

00:46.26
Kevin Shock
oh yeah

00:51.35
Nathan Pile
so

00:54.36
Nathan Pile
so But it's a great day to be inside And whenever you're listening to this, it's going to be in January. And so it's probably a great day to be inside reflecting on, you know, scripture and and tending your, your spirit.

01:11.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah, absolutely.

01:15.45
Nathan Pile
So

01:18.83
Nathan Pile
we'll go from there. So welcome back to Tend. We are in a new year and I can't believe, Kevin, this is already episode eight.

01:27.70
Kevin Shock
I know I was thinking the same thing as I was making the prep sheets that we just started yesterday, the new season.

01:32.83
Nathan Pile
it's like it's it

01:35.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:35.51
Nathan Pile
It does feel like we just started yesterday, and I was like, oh we're just almost to 10 already. But that means the year is going by fast faster than I was thinking it was. so But it's good to be together. um We're going to be looking at Isaiah chapter 42, verses 1 through 9. Kevin and I are going to read it from the Common English Bible, and we're going wrestle with three questions, two of which are...

02:04.34
Kevin Shock
Oh, you know what?

02:05.59
Nathan Pile
what you didn't change question

02:08.38
Kevin Shock
No, I changed the question. um No, we're no, I meant to change that. No, we're not reading it from the common English Bible. Look at this magic, Nathan. The prep sheet is changing as we speak.

02:19.10
Nathan Pile
it's changing before my eyes every everyone um it's not changing everyone it's not changing before my eyes uh

02:21.97
Kevin Shock
Although, wait, now I'm confused. ah

02:29.59
Kevin Shock
No, it's not changing yet. Let me, let me, let me double check.

02:31.45
Nathan Pile
me give you the Let me give you the play-by-play. It's highlighted in pink.

02:35.38
Kevin Shock
um Is it highlighted in pink?

02:39.03
Nathan Pile
It is highlighted in pink.

02:40.19
Kevin Shock
Not on my end, it's not.

02:40.67
Nathan Pile
You are... Yeah, no.

02:41.88
Kevin Shock
um

02:42.36
Nathan Pile
In my world, you are you are a pink circle.

02:45.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. um, um Oh, let's just go for it. Let's just do it from the Common English Bible.

02:57.75
Nathan Pile
All right, that everyone. The decision has been made that there's going be no changes.

02:59.59
Kevin Shock
Wait, wait, wait, wait, no. No, I changed my mind.

03:02.78
Nathan Pile
you the

03:03.81
Kevin Shock
I changed my mind. We're, we're doing the NRSVUE.

03:07.92
Nathan Pile
All right, everyone. This is pretty much, this is pretty much how Kevin's mind works. You're getting a backdoor look at...

03:16.78
Kevin Shock
This is not always how my mind works.

03:23.56
Nathan Pile
This is a backdoor look at how... Kevin's 50 year old mind. um

03:30.59
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

03:31.74
Nathan Pile
ah makes decisions and you've just been a part of it everyone so it's very exciting we so we're actually going to do an edit to the this now is we're going to read the translation from the new revised standard version updated edition. Again, that's Isaiah chapter 42 verses 1 through 9 you can follow along in whatever bible you have or you could go to bible gateway and follow along

03:38.25
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah.

03:57.14
Nathan Pile
um with the NRSVUE or pick some other translation, maybe you'd like the, um I don't know,

04:09.10
Kevin Shock
common English Bible.

04:10.27
Nathan Pile
commonly English Bible. Yeah. um So what are NIV or something like that? So, but we're going address three questions because that's what we do.

04:16.54
Kevin Shock
And don't use the NIV. No, you can if you want. All right, go ahead, Nathan.

04:27.10
Nathan Pile
Three questions. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

04:30.99
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

04:31.13
Nathan Pile
Or what, what word, phrase, or image strikes you about the last four minutes, everyone? um

04:36.49
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

04:36.66
Nathan Pile
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And our third question this week, what is God's justice? Ooh. I'm intimidated by the question.

04:45.98
Kevin Shock
Ooh, you're intimidated by it? Well, let's read some scripture and see if you have any ideas after that.

04:48.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

04:51.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

04:52.94
Kevin Shock
Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

05:06.25
Kevin Shock
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

05:21.05
Kevin Shock
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience. So folks, this is Isaiah chapter 42 verses one through nine from the new revised standard version, updated edition.

05:36.81
Kevin Shock
Final decision.

05:39.76
Nathan Pile
It's locked in.

05:41.06
Kevin Shock
It's locked in. All right, here we go. Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen in whom my soul delights. I have put my spirit upon him. He will bring forth justice to the nations.

05:53.27
Kevin Shock
He will not cry out or lift up his voice or make it heard in the street. A bruised reed he will not break and a dimly burning wick he will not quench. he will faithfully bring forth justice.

06:06.65
Kevin Shock
He will not grow faint or be crushed until he has established justice in the earth and the coastlands wait for his teaching. Thus says God the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it.

06:21.08
Kevin Shock
who gives breath to the people upon it and spirit to those who walk in it. I am the Lord. I have called you in righteousness. I have taken you by the hand and kept you. i have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness.

06:42.94
Kevin Shock
I am the Lord, that is my name. My glory I give to no other, nor my praise to idols. See, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare.

06:54.25
Kevin Shock
Before they spring forth, I tell you of them. If you are meeting with a group or with another person, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own.

07:07.58
Kevin Shock
Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

07:11.06
Nathan Pile
Um, I'll be honest, as you, you were reading it, the, I was surprised by the psalmist's words. Um,

07:22.49
Nathan Pile
I guess when I think about ah um some of the, or not the Psalms, Isaiah's words. When I think about the Old Testament, a lot of times I think about or expect to hear about a mighty God who is thundering onto the scene, doing big things.

07:38.90
Nathan Pile
um

07:39.06
Kevin Shock
yep

07:39.83
Nathan Pile
And here it is almost tender. the, The coming servant won't, won't even break a bruised reed, like So the reed is already weakened in some form or fashion.

08:00.57
Nathan Pile
And the one who's coming won't, won't even... won't harm something that's already been weakened.

08:11.35
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

08:11.38
Nathan Pile
Will be able to pass by and, and not do more damage.

08:19.19
Nathan Pile
So that was that was, it's refreshing, I guess. um Because again, as I think about the Old Testament, sometimes I feel like, um you know, here's my servant, here's the chosen one. And then, boom,

08:36.34
Nathan Pile
we're hearing how, what's, what's the word I'm looking for? it's, it, I don't want to say, soft, but very,

08:53.21
Kevin Shock
Well, did you use the word gentle before?

08:53.65
Nathan Pile
very, maybe gentle, maybe gentle would be the right word. um, Um, I am going to probably sit here and think a little bit about what word I would, would use instead. Cause I don't want it to be like, I don't want it to sound weak because that's not what is being presented here.

09:11.67
Nathan Pile
Um, because there's still a confidence about the servant. There's still, um

09:16.48
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

09:17.59
Nathan Pile
There's still delight and joy. But this this servant is going to... to

09:29.39
Nathan Pile
I don't want to say it's going to catch us by surprise, but it's not... is not gonna, It doesn't have the the grandeur of what we would think about as a servant, a light to the nations, someone who's coming, breaking onto the scene.

09:45.05
Nathan Pile
um so So, yeah, I think that that would be my initial first... kind of pieces was as you were reading I was just kind of like oh this is a this is a fresh voice um might be the way that I would because it was about the author first like I, I was surprised by who the servant is but I was surprised by the language that the author was using to describe. And that first phrase that caught my attention was that bruised read, he will not break.

10:16.02
Nathan Pile
And I actually, after you read it, I then my like, I was like, did you read that right? And I went back and looked at the words just so that I could hear it and see it. And sure enough, it's, it's that, that which has already been weakened, isn't not, nothing else is going to befall it that would, that would break it or hurt it in any way, shape or form. So yeah. So I think that would be my initial,

10:37.98
Nathan Pile
my initial, what struck me there. Because you have a bunch of those phrases, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, two through four verses.

10:48.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yep.

10:50.05
Nathan Pile
So how about you, my friend? What word, phrase, or image strikes you?

10:52.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I'm, I'm just going to expand on what you said because it's the exact same thing. It's the the bruise, the bruised reed he will not break and a dimly burning wick he will not quench.

11:04.10
Kevin Shock
ah Some other translations... Yeah, yeah I don't know which translation I was supposed to use. I would kept going back and forth. um Some other translations say extinguish there.

11:19.06
Kevin Shock
So you think about like how...

11:22.98
Kevin Shock
how carefully you have to move by

11:26.23
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

11:28.06
Kevin Shock
a candle that's, that's struggling to stay lit without making it go out.

11:33.27
Nathan Pile
Right.

11:33.26
Kevin Shock
And the image that we have whenever, whenever a powerful leader or nation in this world wants to get its way is, is the bulldozer.

11:46.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

11:47.33
Kevin Shock
you just run things right over you establish your own way in the land. And this is the servant of God here comes into a land that is broken and hurt and does not break or hurt them anymore.

11:52.22
Nathan Pile
Right.

12:03.71
Kevin Shock
um and, and there are a couple of things I think about these, as you were talking, I wondered to myself, Is it that there is a gentleness about the servant? I think that there is. I think that's clear.

12:21.73
Kevin Shock
I also think that... um I wonder if the, if the bruised reeds of the world and the faintly, ah dimly burning wicks are the ones who need God's justice to be established.

12:35.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:36.38
Kevin Shock
And... So, you know, we talk about... In war, we talk about collateral damage. That there are deaths that happen that are unfortunate. ah These are not my words. This is the, the world's way of talking about it. Deaths that are unfortunate but necessary in order for the objectives to the, of the war to be met.

13:07.67
Kevin Shock
So people who are already struggling die. Because when you're talking about weapons and armies, soldiers, you're just running everything over. That's not the way of God here. It's not how God is presented. It's not how God's servant is presented.

13:25.62
Kevin Shock
And um

13:29.60
Kevin Shock
I do, as hearing you read this and reading this myself, I wonder... How does the servant accomplish anything for God's sake if the servant is that gentle and that careful?

13:44.50
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

13:45.70
Kevin Shock
um But I don't think that that's, I think that that's a question that comes from me just being used to the way that the world does this stuff.

13:57.50
Kevin Shock
ah It's hard for me to imagine, but I do think that there must be a way that gentleness and carefulness do a greater job of establishing justice and righteousness in the land than might and power.

14:16.50
Kevin Shock
um Or,

14:19.97
Kevin Shock
um, I don't know, and maybe it those aren't even the right words, because because you can be gentle and powerful. You can be careful and powerful. um But I think you know what I mean, that they're you know without being violent, without being rough.

14:40.59
Nathan Pile
Well, think the word almost for me, as I listen to you talk, it's one of my favorite words, intentional. um

14:47.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

14:47.90
Nathan Pile
The servant is intentional about how they walk past bruised reeds and, and to make sure that they don't disturb the air to put, to, to extinguish a dimly burning wick.

14:47.97
Kevin Shock
who

15:04.50
Nathan Pile
um

15:05.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

15:06.78
Nathan Pile
So there's an intentionality about about this servant who comes into the world. um and and And I'm with you that, that, that first verse where it ends, he will bring forth justice to the nations.

15:20.66
Nathan Pile
I think that's why I was so surprised by two, three, and four was because justice, I was thinking, you know, I'm thinking about, we're going to turn swords and shields into, into plows.

15:31.70
Nathan Pile
And um you know, there's still, there's still a feeling, even though we're getting rid of violence or there's still a

15:33.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

15:41.21
Nathan Pile
a significant amount of labor that would be involved in making that shift.

15:47.78
Kevin Shock
Sure.

15:48.18
Nathan Pile
You know, blacksmithing, whatever, you know, pounding of metal into something else.

15:48.52
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

15:54.97
Nathan Pile
And so though they're bringing about a justice here, this is a justice that is, that is as you said, careful, gentle. And I think the word, ah now that I've listened to you a little bit more, it might even be intentional.

16:07.45
Nathan Pile
um

16:08.63
Kevin Shock
Sure.

16:09.14
Nathan Pile
to make sure that all who are involved in that justice. And of course, it makes me think about the fighting in Russia and and Ukraine right now and like, what's, what's, what's really behind, what's really, what's this all about and, and why?

16:25.73
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:29.18
Nathan Pile
and not that I have those answers of like, a you know,

16:36.34
Nathan Pile
why Putin in his, his uh, military felt like they needed to do this. Um,

16:47.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

16:48.76
Nathan Pile
but I'm also not aware of the geopolitical underpinnings of the area either. So like, I can't say that I've, I'm fully immersed in all of the history of those regions either. So, um,

17:05.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah. ah Yeah. No, I'm not either. Um, but there are questions about what, um, why exactly do people enter into why do leaders enter into these kinds of actions and um you know is it, is it for the sake of made up borders, um, is it, you know, is it for resources I, I don't know um

17:38.61
Kevin Shock
that, That nation has just been decimated for years now. And it doesn't make a lot of sense. we, you know, I mean, lest we point the finger elsewhere too, we currently have, at least as we record this, it seems that our government, or at least the executive branch of our government, is setting up possible action against someone else.

18:00.07
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:02.07
Kevin Shock
And it seems pretty clear that it's for oil reserves. um

18:05.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Right.

18:07.86
Kevin Shock
I mean, there are all kinds of words that tells us for something different, but ah, I, I think anyone, and anyone who looks at it can see what it's really about.

18:08.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah. right ye

18:12.71
Nathan Pile
Right. Right. Start, start, start impounding oil ships.

18:20.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

18:21.13
Nathan Pile
Um, yeah.

18:22.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

18:24.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:24.61
Kevin Shock
And it is. um I mean, I, I think, I think it's okay for the people of God to grow weary of the

18:36.56
Kevin Shock
posturing and the, and beyond posturing, the actions of our leaders that are for their own personal or maybe, I don't even think it's for the sake of the nation, though. I, I think it's so that they can get their own way.

18:54.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:55.61
Kevin Shock
they, They might play it off as this is what's best for our country. um But obviously,

19:03.81
Nathan Pile
Well, it's definitely not about justice.

19:06.30
Kevin Shock
It's not about justice.

19:07.05
Nathan Pile
It's definitely not about justice.

19:07.06
Kevin Shock
No, it's not about justice. It's about seizing power. Yeah.

19:10.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

19:11.96
Kevin Shock
Right. And maybe that's maybe that's the primary difference is that earthly leaders aren't seeking what God is seeking.

19:13.11
Nathan Pile
Right.

19:18.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:21.26
Kevin Shock
Barely even interested in it.

19:23.16
Nathan Pile
Right. Well, and it's the, the idea of, you know, the servant is coming to bring forth justice.

19:34.86
Nathan Pile
Um, and so again, that word justice even can be convoluted in our world or hijacked by others to say, I'm doing this for justice reasons, but, but our, you know, again, we have to make those decisions, I think in some way in light of what is justice, what does, you know, what does justice mean and look like?

19:49.75
Kevin Shock
Sure.

20:11.86
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

20:13.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah, because I, when we say justice. A lot of times people mean other things.

20:23.29
Kevin Shock
Retribution, vengeance.

20:24.42
Nathan Pile
Right.

20:25.34
Kevin Shock
I mean, those, those are all, I don't think they're synonymous with justice, but I think other people do.

20:30.78
Nathan Pile
Do, right.

20:31.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we might get more into that conversation on third question.

20:36.34
Nathan Pile
Yeah, we might. All right, let's ah do it for a second time.

20:41.72
Kevin Shock
Okay. All right.

20:43.82
Nathan Pile
Here is my servant, whom uphold, my chosen, and whom my soul delights. I have put my spirit upon him. He will bring forth justice to the nations.

20:56.12
Nathan Pile
He will not cry out or lift up his voice or make it heard in the street. A bruised reed he will not break and a dimly burning wick he will not quench.

21:09.02
Nathan Pile
He will faithfully bring forth justice and he will not grow faint or be crush- crushed until he has established justice in the earth and the coastlands wait for his teaching.

21:22.30
Nathan Pile
Thus says God the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people upon it, and a spirit to those who walk in it.

21:36.57
Nathan Pile
I am the Lord. I have called you in righteousness. I have taken you by the hand and kept you. I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison, those who sit in darkness.

21:55.10
Nathan Pile
I am the Lord. That is my name. My glory I give to no other, nor my praise to idols. See, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare.

22:07.58
Nathan Pile
Before they spring forth, I tell them of you. I tell you of them.

22:17.91
Nathan Pile
Toward what is God calling you in this text?

22:23.03
Kevin Shock
ah hearing you read this a second time, it um

22:29.59
Kevin Shock
brought forth in a different way some things I've been thinking of. um And I'm thinking of that servant who moves and operates so intentionally, gently, ah carefully, that they don't put out a dimly burning wick or, or break a bruised reed.

22:57.08
Kevin Shock
um

23:02.07
Kevin Shock
This is not the, the servant who brings justice is not the,

23:10.17
Kevin Shock
not the kind of person who makes headlines.

23:13.66
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

23:14.36
Kevin Shock
Not the kind of person who is jockeying that their voice be heard in the public sphere. um And so I think I'm called to ah look for, seek out and pay attention to the servants of God who are the intentional, gentle, careful ones who bring justice into the world.

23:42.87
Kevin Shock
And maybe who call out for justice in the world.

23:48.59
Kevin Shock
they're, they're not the, They're not the people who have the platforms, at least not in the usual ways. And so

24:02.55
Kevin Shock
looking, looking for them, seeking them out, paying attention to them, I think is an important thing.

24:13.91
Nathan Pile
do you, the second half of this passage, um, I guess as I sit and I've been interpreting it here, as I read it a second time through, Isaiah is calling Israel to be the servant.

24:32.92
Nathan Pile
Yes. Question mark.

24:38.23
Nathan Pile
That, that would be my sense here as I look at this. Um, as I, as I actually looked at the words and read them this time through, the thing that kind of stuck out to me is, is along with your reflection, that piece of being being watching for the servant, um you know that, that ah the image of, I have taken you by the hand and kept you.

24:44.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:59.51
Kevin Shock
Uh huh.

25:04.31
Nathan Pile
And so this idea of, you know I think about a a kid reaching out their hand or an adult reaching out their hand to a kid and the kid placing their hand in, know, there's a level of safety that is felt by that connection.

25:23.61
Nathan Pile
Right. And so this image here of God saying, you know, I am the Lord and I called you to righteousness and I've taken you by the hand and kept you.

25:36.94
Nathan Pile
So, this idea that I'm the, God is the parent here and, and, and grabbing onto us

25:41.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

25:44.28
Nathan Pile
um

25:47.77
Nathan Pile
as a, as a way of of nurturing the nation, that Israel is the nation among nations, right? um And so this idea of

26:04.79
Nathan Pile
of, you know, that, I guess that's what I, you know, my, my stuff, it connects to what you're saying in that, um, or my, my reflection kind of connects with what you're saying. This idea of that we're called to be, to emulate

26:22.65
Nathan Pile
the description of the servant above. Um,

26:29.08
Nathan Pile
yet God is doing, you know God is doing, God is the one who is you know leading us by the hand, has made the covenant and promise with, with, with us, ah God's people.

26:31.96
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

26:44.66
Nathan Pile
there I've, I've broadened the definition here that Isaiah would have necessarily been looking at instead of just the Jewish people. I've broadened that to be all of God's people.

26:55.10
Nathan Pile
um

26:58.94
Nathan Pile
you know I think there's a piece of this that, That God is calling us as the as God's people to be to be a nation of servants um

27:11.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:13.11
Nathan Pile
moving forward or living forward. Maybe not moving forward, but living, living forward.

27:17.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I looked at the rest of the chapter there and I think, I think you're right. I mean and I, And we certainly have heard that interpretation before like in regards to the the suffering servant passages um that those, though we Christian people say that those passages point to Jesus, they were written without

27:33.06
Nathan Pile
Sure.

27:41.75
Kevin Shock
Jesus in mind, um but that they are, yeah, that they, that the servant is, it's believed by a lot of scholars that the servant is Judah, ah or is is Isaiah Judah or Israel?

27:44.18
Nathan Pile
Sure.

27:59.80
Kevin Shock
I always think of Isaiah Southern Kingdom, but I might be wrong. Yeah.

28:03.03
Nathan Pile
Well, yeah, you're right. It would be but like, but Isaiah would be, when you say Israel, I guess um you're, yeah, the nation, God, God's nation.

28:12.46
Kevin Shock
you're talking about the nation, the nation the God's nation. Yeah. Right.

28:16.99
Nathan Pile
But, but in, in Isaiah's mind, it might just be Judah.

28:17.37
Kevin Shock
Right.

28:24.25
Kevin Shock
Yes. Right. Right.

28:25.14
Nathan Pile
yeah You know, it might just be, yeah,

28:26.36
Kevin Shock
Right. Quick, quick history reminder for those who might remember this from a long time ago.

28:29.78
Nathan Pile
yeah thanks.

28:34.09
Kevin Shock
um that there was a a united kingdom of Israel. That's what David and Solomon reigned over. And then after Solomon, there was civil war and it broke up. And Israel was the northern kingdom where Samaria is. So, you know, the Samaritans that people in Jesus' time are warning the religious folk to be afraid of.

28:58.71
Kevin Shock
ah that's That's Israel. And Judah is where Jerusalem is. So two kingdoms, northern kingdom is Israel, southern kingdom is Judah and different prophets, right, to different kingdoms.

29:16.38
Kevin Shock
But yes, this is, this is God, this is God's.

29:17.59
Nathan Pile
just they're, They're just as broken as we are, everyone. They're just as broken as we are.

29:20.76
Kevin Shock
Right. That's right. That's right. They weren't really any better off. um And that's part of the point of this passage, too, is that the. not this passage, but this chapter as we as you read ahead in this chapter um it, it actually does say Israel in a, in a heading so maybe he is writing to the northern kingdom Israel is punished for their disobedience for not being the servant that um God intended them to be

29:51.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

29:54.33
Kevin Shock
not just falling short of their responsibilities but Not executing justice in the land, turning and worshiping other gods, all kinds of stuff. so

30:02.12
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

30:05.11
Kevin Shock
Generations upon generations of ah bad stuff.

30:12.28
Kevin Shock
But you're right, Nathan. The servant, we're talking about the nation here.

30:20.09
Nathan Pile
Well, and, and I don't mean to delineate between the servant that gets listed above and the nation that is being called forth or called to action below.

30:33.18
Nathan Pile
Because I do in it's all one passage.

30:34.19
Kevin Shock
Sure.

30:35.54
Nathan Pile
It's all um it's all connected here.

30:37.36
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

30:39.90
Nathan Pile
But this image of, again, that the to me, there's some power in that simple image of an adult reaching their hand out and a kid putting their hand in it it's, it warms our heart. It's a, it's a, it's a, a touching image, but like, think about all of the pieces that have to be in place in a relationship

31:10.39
Nathan Pile
for a hand to be extended and another hand to be willing to be placed into it. like there's trust and there's, there's, ah there's, um, connection and relationship, um, that exist.

31:27.99
Nathan Pile
Um, you know, like putting your hand out to shake somebody's hand in a greeting is different. There's a different action than if you turn your hand, just simply a couple of degrees and you're making it a place to, to place your hand. Right.

31:43.93
Nathan Pile
Um,

31:44.29
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

31:45.53
Nathan Pile
And so that idea that you know that idea that I've taken you by the hand and kept you is ah is a different angle a different angle of the hand, but with it means different, just there's a different

32:04.98
Nathan Pile
intention, sticking with the word from the first question, there's a different intention behind behind that gesture. And so you know, all of the parts of the relationships that that must exist for the care and gentleness

32:28.12
Nathan Pile
of, of, of here in this passage, God walking with the the servant people.

32:36.86
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

32:37.34
Nathan Pile
And essentially what we're then called to do, to be, to be a light to the ah to, to the nations.

32:46.12
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

32:46.98
Nathan Pile
um

32:50.14
Nathan Pile
you know that that we, I've, I, I learned from my parent to be a parent, right, I've, I've learned the care of extending my hand to my daughter because the lord or the one, the, the ones before who guided me taught me, taught me that um

32:58.90
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

33:14.68
Nathan Pile
So I don't know. That's just an interesting, like that simple gesture of grabbing another's hand, everything that gets wrapped up into that.

33:24.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

33:25.40
Nathan Pile
You know, I say that because I have a new puppy in my house and like you're trying to teach everything is right now. There's a lot of no in our house. ah um And a lot of calling.

33:39.58
Nathan Pile
of, of, of the name, but like, you know, it hasn't been lost on me to kind of realize, but I'm I'm creating all of the new, you know, I'm putting in the foundation of all of the relationship between this dog and our family.

33:57.81
Kevin Shock
Sure.

33:58.29
Nathan Pile
We're creating that connection and relationship, things that that all have to be a part of that simple gesture of me extending my hand and somebody else placing their hand in my hand in a way that's not a handshake, right?

33:58.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

34:11.52
Nathan Pile
Like this it's, it's intended to be something different.

34:19.11
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

34:20.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. What is God calling you toward in this passage?

34:28.89
Nathan Pile
Well, that was it. I was just

34:30.19
Kevin Shock
Oh, that was it. Okay. Okay.

34:32.86
Nathan Pile
I was just, I was wrapped up in in what you were saying, but my, my stuff just built off of what you were, that idea that this is for the, nation you know, that this is this piece of this is for the nations that were called to be, um,

34:38.36
Kevin Shock
okay All right. Hmm.

34:50.33
Nathan Pile
to be the servant people as God's people.

34:56.95
Nathan Pile
which is not, as I said that very simply there, but you know it took me 10 minutes to get there in my reflection.

35:05.34
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Understood. Yeah.

35:12.00
Nathan Pile
do it a third time?

35:13.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah, let's do it a third time. From Isaiah 42. Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen in whom my soul delights.

35:24.46
Kevin Shock
I have put my spirit upon him. He will bring forth justice to the nations. He will not cry out or lift up his voice or make it heard in the street. A bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not quench.

35:38.86
Kevin Shock
He will faithfully bring forth justice. He will not grow faint or be crushed until he has established justice in the earth, and the coastlands wait for his teaching. Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people upon it and spirit to those who walk in it.

35:59.74
Kevin Shock
I am the Lord. I have called you in righteousness. I have taken you by the hand and kept you. I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness.

36:06.16
Nathan Pile
Okay.

36:16.57
Kevin Shock
I am the Lord. That is my name. My glory I give to no other, nor my praise to idols. See, the former things have come to pass, and new things I now declare.

36:27.36
Kevin Shock
Before they spring forth, I tell you of them. Nathan, what is God's justice?

36:36.34
Nathan Pile
It is different. It is a different type of justice, dust-, justice than what our, you know, we you were talking about this in, I think, the, I don't know, first or second question, you were talking about how our definition of justice is different than God's.

36:48.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

36:50.64
Nathan Pile
And so that is very apparent to me, um both in the description and the invitation to be a light to the nations um because it, God's justice is it's, it's do no harm, it's, it's freedom, it's wholeness

37:24.38
Nathan Pile
You know, so it's, it's not, it's, it's, it's freeing prisoners. It's opening the eyes of the blind. God's justice is, is that all, all, you know, might you might say have that, have the, the, the life of dignity that God intends for all of life.

37:44.88
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

37:48.15
Nathan Pile
And so there's different images throughout kind of talking about that, both the, the gentleness and carefulness and intentionality of, of the servant above. But even when we get down into the second, um, second portion of this reading, the servant is, it's not punishing.

38:14.30
Nathan Pile
it's, it's, It's, again, it's freedom. It's, it's providing,

38:22.26
Nathan Pile
dignity for, for all.

38:28.34
Nathan Pile
How about you? What is God's justice?

38:31.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's ah it's those things that we um read right in the, in the passage. um Opening eyes that are blind, bringing out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. Um,

38:48.21
Kevin Shock
I think that that's, I think, I think God's justice is more than that, but I think that those are all things that we are, ah we're content to let them continue to be the way that they are in the world.

39:03.03
Kevin Shock
Um, I mean, I think about, I've been thinking a lot about this is where, as we record this, we're heading up to Christmas and thinking about some things that we talked about in our Christmas Eve episode.

39:17.53
Kevin Shock
um and other conversations I've had with people about um how willing we are to let the people who are on the margins stay on the margins and um and thinking about um how little we pay attention to to the people who are on the margins and the people who are, who don't have a have a the opportunity to have a platform or the spotlight, ah people who

39:53.36
Kevin Shock
um maybe have um different abilities um and just the way we talk about, you know, how we move in the world and things like that, that that is completely ignorant of those people.

40:09.82
Kevin Shock
um those are, Those are the things that I think... god ah God is not content to let those things go by the wayside, I don't think. and And justice... I don't know if justice is rectifying those things, but justice certainly involves paying attention to those things.

40:29.65
Kevin Shock
I mean, we do hear here that God opens the eyes that are blind.

40:29.71
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

40:33.40
Kevin Shock
and But I'm not sure that that's a physical thing or if it's... um ah Based on what we, based on what Isaiah writes right at the end of this chapter, um it seems as though Isaiah is talking about people who have a have a an inability to perceive what God is doing.

41:01.51
Kevin Shock
um They don't see it or hear it. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, I, yeah, I, I think that there are, God is interesting.

41:18.24
Kevin Shock
God's justice, at least in part, is rectifying the wrongs that this world commits, that the people of this world commit to one another.

41:28.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

41:29.32
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and I, part of your reflection, I think that is so powerful is that idea of

41:43.42
Nathan Pile
that we have a God who's not willing say, Oh, I, you know, this is a hopeless situation.

41:54.01
Nathan Pile
I can't, this can't be fixed. God is, God is carefully and gently,

41:57.76
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah, right.

42:02.12
Nathan Pile
inserting God's self into the even those situations and figuring out how can I break this apart.

42:12.31
Nathan Pile
and, And it might even be so, maybe this isn't a great image, but, but maybe it is. um We're in Lutheran Outdoor Ministries where we have talked about that we're part of a big network and we're constantly looking at new ways and challenging ourselves to be more intentional about inclusion, which in many ways is it focuses in three areas.

42:35.46
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

42:38.51
Nathan Pile
It's, it's around disability, ah it's around race, and it's around gender. um But like this to me is, is a way that God works.

42:49.43
Nathan Pile
We think everything is equal and fair, or we can have a tendency to make assumptions and look at the world. If, if we feel... that it's equal and fair, then it, then it's equal and fair.

43:03.84
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

43:04.28
Nathan Pile
But God has a way of coming back and saying, you know, that that that the work of the civil rights movement was good, but it's not done kind of a thing, right?

43:16.72
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

43:17.05
Nathan Pile
And and so this is, this is back around, it comes back around because we need to keep working at it. God's justice keeps going. moving, moving back into the space saying, you thought this was fixed or solved and it's awkward and it's, and it's hard work and it again, to being gentle, careful and intentional.

43:45.40
Nathan Pile
But I'm going to keep inserting the Holy Spirit and the, the servant people and saying this needs to continue to be wrestled with. We've, we've not yet achieved God's justice.

44:02.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

44:03.22
Nathan Pile
Everyone doesn't have the life of dignity. um And so like being, recognizing that, hearing that and struggling with it anew

44:05.99
Kevin Shock
Right.

44:15.67
Nathan Pile
and, And continuing to wrestle with it. Because again, Kevin, you and I talk about this at the beginning of the of every podcast, because we believe that this disclaimer, I'm sure many of you fast forward, it hit 30 seconds and it just goes past and you can keep listening to the podcast. That's fine.

44:31.06
Nathan Pile
But we value the reason we've put chosen to do this for four seasons.

44:31.93
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:36.24
Nathan Pile
And I imagine as long as we do this, that we'll continue to be there. to be able to say there are blinders on our glasses the way that we look at the world, Kevin and I, and, and the only way that I can try to clean the lens of my glass a little bit is to first recognize

44:45.65
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. yeah

44:56.44
Nathan Pile
who I am, who, who I am and how I've been um how I've lived life and, and what experiences I have and, and that I would have blind spots. Um, and so that disclaimer, I think in some ways helps remind us of that. doesn't always, it's not always at the front of our mind, you know, after 30 minutes of talking about a scripture passage, but I do think it's important that we keep wrestling with it. Um,

45:21.42
Kevin Shock
Sure.

45:22.23
Nathan Pile
And, and, and yet that's to me, that is, is a way that I feel that God is working in our world today towards God's justice, something that we experience.

45:33.88
Nathan Pile
um Yeah. yeah um Well, so yesterday I was in line with my daughter, we were shopping at a store, local store, and somebody behind me said, I'm so glad we can say Merry Christmas again. And I'm like,

45:53.34
Kevin Shock
When were we prevented from saying Merry Christmas?

45:54.89
Nathan Pile
when were you not allowed to say Merry Christmas? Like, like I get that like all of that a couple of years ago, kind of got media grabbed onto it because it, you know, got, but I was just like, when were you not allowed to say Merry Christmas?

46:09.05
Nathan Pile
um You know, ah for, right.

46:09.11
Kevin Shock
we just get people so worked up for, yeah.

46:12.66
Nathan Pile
And so, but ah I was, you know, but, but this is a piece, right? Like, you know, well, if they just stayed over there in their lane, everything would be fine. that, that's not justice folks.

46:24.88
Nathan Pile
Um, and so we, we, we have some bias, you know, the we have things that are a part of our ah stuff that, that we need to work on.

46:26.24
Kevin Shock
Right.

46:38.05
Nathan Pile
Um,

46:38.74
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

46:39.70
Nathan Pile
you know Just as I rolled my eyes standing in line and my daughter looked at me and I just kind of shook my head very small note back and forth saying, no, we're not going to get into this.

46:50.82
Kevin Shock
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

46:51.14
Nathan Pile
She was he looks like, what were gonna do, what is this about? and's like We're not talking about it in, in line at the store.

46:56.70
Kevin Shock
Oh gosh.

46:58.98
Nathan Pile
um but like but These parts, these it's still a part of her. If I feel uncomfortable, somebody's doing something to me, but, but God, God is, is again, gentle, sneaky, sliding past the dimly lit candle so that not to, not to snuff us out, but at the same time, trying to, to help us change our hearts.

47:14.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

47:29.46
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

47:29.91
Nathan Pile
And it, and, and so, One of the ways, you know, it does feel cyclical to me, this, this piece of working towards inclusion. Yes, we did this back in the 60s and we probably tried to work on it in the 70s and 80s 90s, but now we're trying to work on it here in the 2025s and moving forward because God is, God is tenacious about this this way of bringing about justice, God's god's way of bringing about justice and, and calling us as God's servants to to do that as well.

48:10.71
Nathan Pile
And it's not with violence and and it's not, um

48:17.18
Nathan Pile
it makes us, you know, ah we talk a lot about camp, the difference between uncomfortable and unsafe. Like it makes us uncomfortable

48:26.19
Kevin Shock
Mm.

48:27.96
Nathan Pile
but we're not really unsafe.

48:30.32
Kevin Shock
Mm.

48:30.46
Nathan Pile
but if by, But if we make changes, maybe it makes someone else feel safe.

48:30.80
Kevin Shock
Mm.

48:39.74
Nathan Pile
And so our uncomfort is small compared to helping someone else feel safe in our world. that you know That's a big part of inclusion. And so how do we how do we seek to help others feel safe?

48:57.57
Nathan Pile
So.

49:01.56
Nathan Pile
that did go on a bit of a tangent there, but this idea of God's justice, I think, is interesting of how we might see it in our world today.

49:12.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

49:15.84
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I, I, like I said, in the second answer too, I don't think it's, I don't think it's easy to see.

49:24.33
Nathan Pile
No.

49:24.69
Kevin Shock
to perceive, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

49:27.99
Nathan Pile
right.

49:30.17
Nathan Pile
And you're right, I think you have to be, we have to train our eyes to be looking for it. And our ears.

49:35.69
Kevin Shock
ah wonder two I too, mean, that makes me think,

49:41.38
Kevin Shock
I don't know, is there, is there a way, I said that, um you know, these, these servants like this are not the ones who seek the limelight or the or have the platforms necessarily, but I do wonder if

50:03.90
Kevin Shock
someone who passes by a dimly burning wick and takes care not to extinguish it, if that's noticeable to people.

50:13.62
Nathan Pile
yeah.

50:15.65
Kevin Shock
Noteworthy. And I think that may be true. um Which again, takes me back to my answer for the second question that to be, um I'm called to be on the lookout for those people, to seek those people out.

50:34.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think there's something, I think we do take notice of people who don't just bluster and blunder through the world and, you know, only interested in their own way. Like we know who those people are.

50:54.04
Nathan Pile
Well, again, I think, I think about the wisest among us are oftentimes the ones that do just what you're saying. you know they're They're the ones that are able to do that.

51:02.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

51:03.31
Nathan Pile
and so

51:04.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

51:05.82
Nathan Pile
are, we have, ah, we, We've hedged towards a popular culture that discounts age and wisdom.

51:18.81
Nathan Pile
because we're throwing everything up in and deciding what what we're gonna keep as we move forward in this new paradigm. But there's something about wisdom, and I'm not saying that only wisdom comes with age, because there are absolutely some that could, could see and hear it at, at younger ages. But being able for us to make enough time to see and hear others point and share their wisdom is, is, is important, is valuable.

51:54.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think so too.

51:58.42
Nathan Pile
Anything else, my friend, before I talk about additional texts?

52:03.30
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. No, go right ahead.

52:07.11
Nathan Pile
Isaiah chapter 60 verses 1 through 6. You could read that in the NRSVUE or any translation, but it does talk about the nations come to the light. Psalm 72 verses 1 through 7 and 10 to 14, all kings shall bow down before him.

52:23.32
Nathan Pile
Ephesians 3 verses 1 through 12, the gospel's promise extends to all. and Matthew chapter two, verses one through 12. And um

52:38.65
Nathan Pile
and that's revelation the revelation of Christ to the nations of the earth. We also have additional readings, um which is, this is for, what is this The baptism of Christ.

52:51.36
Kevin Shock
yeah

52:54.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so, so those ones that you those ones that you mentioned, actually, I forgot to mention this before. Those are the um the readings for Epiphany, which falls this week.

53:05.67
Kevin Shock
And some people might observe on this Sunday, but many do not. So this is we looked at, at one of the texts for Baptism of Our Lord, and that's what these next additional texts are.

53:15.96
Nathan Pile
So the additional texts are for the baptism of our Lord. Psalm 29, the voice of the Lord is upon the waters. Acts 10, verses 34 through 43, Jesus's ministry after his baptism.

53:30.10
Nathan Pile
And Matthew chapter 3, verse 13 to 17, the revelation of Christ as God's servant. Those... those, Sunday of, of, of Christ's, um, Christ baptism, uh, texts. So, um, Kevin, as always, I appreciate your reflections and, um, look forward to doing it again soon. Um, if you have, uh, those of you listening, if you have thoughts, reflections to share again, I encourage you to do that, um, on Facebook or through an email, um,

54:09.08
Nathan Pile
And we hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

54:14.38
Kevin Shock
And peace.