S4 Episode 9: Psalm 40:1-11

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What will you tell and to whom?

Additional texts:

Isaiah 49:1-7

1 Corinthians 1:1-9

John 1:29-42

Transcript

00:02.20
Kevin Shock
Though the weather outside is frightful, scripture is so delightful.

00:10.01
Kevin Shock
So Nathan and I are ah ready to cuddle up to our computer screens and have another...

00:18.49
Nathan Pile
I don't know if I'm ready to cuddle up to my computer screen.

00:18.97
Kevin Shock
ah

00:22.17
Nathan Pile
um I do, I do have some, I do have some warmth happening in here for me.

00:23.42
Kevin Shock
Well, you have ah you have a puppy on your lap, so you're getting some warmth at least somehow.

00:30.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:31.13
Nathan Pile
Yep, yep.

00:32.42
Kevin Shock
uh, cut, cuddle up to our microphones and have another, heartwarming discussion about, about a scripture passage.

00:32.59
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:35.85
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:41.94
Kevin Shock
Um, this week on Tend, a Bible podcast, Nathan and I will be looking at Psalm 40 verses one through 11.

00:53.85
Kevin Shock
ah The translation we're using is the NRSVUE, the New Revised Standard Version, Updated Edition. You can find that on BibleGateway.com or the Bible Gateway app, or just find the nearest translation on your shelf and or nearby and follow along with that.

01:15.03
Kevin Shock
um I always think of, ah this isn't even a song I know very well, but... um way way back in the 1980s when people were young um

01:29.34
Nathan Pile
Some people weren't even alive, Kevin.

01:31.16
Kevin Shock
no some people weren't even alive you're right uh the band u2 and I don't even remember what album it's on had a song that was just called 40 and it's because it was based on this psalm um

01:33.85
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:41.29
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:45.94
Kevin Shock
So I think about this and the, the key verse that Hanna uses for our social media this week is Psalm 40, verse 3a.

01:46.19
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:55.70
Kevin Shock
He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God. If I remember correctly, that's kind of what the U2 song centers on, a new song.

02:05.34
Nathan Pile
The new song.

02:05.82
Kevin Shock
So a new song for today. Psalm 40, verse 1 through 11, the three questions we're using to talk about that new song. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

02:17.66
Kevin Shock
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And what will you tell and to whom?

02:24.64
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Boom.

02:26.21
Kevin Shock
Let's make some plans today, folks.

02:28.24
Nathan Pile
Boom. Some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read and scripture and discuss it.

02:47.42
Nathan Pile
But ah none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

02:58.84
Nathan Pile
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

03:05.44
Nathan Pile
Psalm 40.

03:13.43
Nathan Pile
I waited, waited patiently for the Lord. He inclined to me and heard my cry.

03:19.81
Kevin Shock
you

03:21.37
Nathan Pile
He drew me up from the desolate pit, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock. making my steps secure. He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God.

03:37.27
Nathan Pile
Many will see and fear and put their trust in the Lord. Happy are those who make the Lord their trust, who do not turn to the proud, to those who go astray after false gods.

03:54.36
Nathan Pile
You have multiplied, o Lord my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us. None can compare with you.

04:05.62
Nathan Pile
Were I to proclaim and tell of them, they would be more than can be counted. Sacrifice and offering you do not desire, but you have given me an open ear.

04:19.87
Nathan Pile
Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. Then I said, here I am, In the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do your will, O my God.

04:33.27
Nathan Pile
Your law is within my heart. I have told the glad news of deliverance in the great congregation. See, I have not restrained my lips, as you know, o Lord.

04:45.91
Nathan Pile
I have not hidden your saving help within my heart. I have spoken of your faithfulness in your salvation. I have not concealed your steadfast love and your faithfulness from the great congregation.

05:00.92
Nathan Pile
Do not, O Lord, withhold your mercy from me. Let your steadfast love and your faithfulness keep me safe forever.

05:12.28
Nathan Pile
Kevin, what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

05:18.42
Kevin Shock
Oh, there's a lot in this text.

05:20.26
Nathan Pile
Isn't there? Like, I was like, boy, I, limiting myself to one is going to be hard today.

05:21.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

05:24.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know how I know how you get when I don't limit myself to one, so I will limit myself to one. um So as not to offend.

05:32.66
Nathan Pile
I know. I know how you get when you.

05:37.94
Kevin Shock
um I am, I'm really taken in by the...

05:38.86
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

05:41.74
Kevin Shock
ah Which versus a verse is it? Verse 6... Yeah, the beginning of verse 6. Sacrifice and offering you do not desire, but you have given me an open ear.

05:56.82
Kevin Shock
um we hear that We hear that notion throughout Hebrew scriptures, sacrifice and offering you do not desire. um i mean And the meaning behind that is, and I can't remember if how what's the second half of that in so many places? I don't know.

06:21.40
Kevin Shock
maybe that Maybe there isn't a second half. Maybe it's just part of the the overall theme. But the point of it being, God is interested in the people living righteously, not just not just giving stuff or giving up stuff to please the Lord, but actually just you don't have to give anything up, just live righteously.

06:42.81
Kevin Shock
ah You know, I think of like Micah 6-8 about walking humbly and and doing justice and and loving kindness.

06:55.42
Kevin Shock
but My brain is mush right now. But um

07:01.53
Kevin Shock
yeah, what does God require of us? Not sacrifice and offering. That's something that was given to expiate our sins. But um,

07:11.67
Kevin Shock
God would rather we just live righteously and live in God's way. And I think along with that then is the second half of that, or the second part of that sentiment. And that is, but you have given me an open ear.

07:25.94
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

07:27.07
Kevin Shock
An open ear. um

07:34.94
Kevin Shock
ah a will to listen. ah A will to be open to... what God is saying and what God is doing and responding appropriately.

07:50.01
Kevin Shock
I don't think I've spent a lot of time with this psalm, but it's grown on me in the short time that we've talked about it or read read through that I was reading through it earlier today. Yeah.

08:00.40
Nathan Pile
I was going to say, I haven't really talked about it yet. Um, but, if but it's good to know that as you talk, you're feeling better about it.

08:02.71
Kevin Shock
No, no, no, no, no. I, no, just.

08:08.86
Kevin Shock
feeling better about I'm feeling an and an affinity towards it.

08:11.91
Nathan Pile
Informed, informed.

08:12.42
Kevin Shock
So yeah, well well, Nathan, in order to make me feel even better about it, what word-phrase or image strikes you in this text?

08:13.23
Nathan Pile
You're more informed. Um,

08:19.48
Nathan Pile
um mine was the setting my, giving me secure steps. Um, um,

08:24.99
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

08:25.40
Nathan Pile
And actually, I was like, um because I agree with you, there's lots of images here, but the secure step one was the one that kind of first flashed to me. And it could be because I live here in the woods and, and I don't have a lot of bogs on our property, thankfully.

08:41.72
Nathan Pile
But I do every now and then experience places that are real mushy.

08:42.10
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

08:46.92
Nathan Pile
And, and it does, does feel like it could suck you down in, um not necessarily a ah desolate pit.

08:48.28
Kevin Shock
Yes.

08:54.06
Nathan Pile
I don't, I don't have that feeling, but it does have the images of, Ooh, I'm sinking because there's so much water in this spot.

09:02.05
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

09:03.90
Nathan Pile
um And so that idea of that that, the image of, of being pulled out and set upon a rock so that my steps are secure kind of resonated with me. Um, and, and, again, a powerful image of,

09:25.62
Nathan Pile
of, of what this feels like.

09:30.54
Nathan Pile
Um, you know, that again, this, this God who David is, um, penning, or writing, and not penning, I guess they didn't really have pens back then.

09:42.60
Nathan Pile
Um, but has created this Psalm, this song that kind of lays out this, this, again, I would hope is something that most of us have felt at some point in our lives, this idea of, of, of

09:59.58
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

10:05.34
Nathan Pile
being pulled into a squishy world or a squishy, and, and what that feels like, and, and you as your foot is covered and you're now to your ankle and, and the inside of your shoe is full of water, kind of a thing.

10:24.54
Nathan Pile
But to be rescued in such a way that your foot is put on a rock and you're like, no, this isn't going anywhere. Very quickly, we feel safe. um And of course, then our next thing would be like our sock is wet and we're annoyed about that. But, um but here this, ah this image for the Psalmist is,

10:44.70
Nathan Pile
ah boom, we have every step is going to be secure because this is who God is.

10:52.10
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

10:53.45
Nathan Pile
God puts us on secure footing. Um, and, and just as quickly as we stepped into a mess, we're, we're now put in a place in space, um, that gives us confidence that we're okay.

11:11.35
Nathan Pile
Um, kind of a thing So that image was the thing that kind of that sparked my imagination here of this. Of course, it led me down. I had all kinds of questions then about um David and and timelines of mother other readings. Again, David, David is a, you know, thousand years before Jesus, roughly.

11:36.54
Nathan Pile
Again, we don't have a specific... we have windows of time of where we think things land. But it's not like December 13th, 1000

11:50.49
Kevin Shock
Right.

11:51.05
Nathan Pile
BCE kind of a thing. We have some year ranges that have been put together for us by historians.

11:53.12
Kevin Shock
Right.

12:00.79
Nathan Pile
But like, again, that this is who David is telling us. And much of the Old Testament will be written after this hymn, this song.

12:11.92
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

12:12.22
Nathan Pile
Not all of it, but a lot of it will be written after this psalm. um

12:19.83
Nathan Pile
And so, like,

12:26.55
Nathan Pile
to me, there's a part of the, like, again, we, we come from ah the Lutheran Christian tradition. We like to sing, and so hymnody is important. and, And I was taught growing up that the the the stories of the hymns that we sing, like each verse tells ah more stories, tells us more of the story. Right. And so there's something about, you know, that here the psalmist is, is, is telling us the story of who God is. You know, I don't, I guess it's like verses one through three is maybe the first verse and then verses four to five,

13:08.38
Nathan Pile
four and five is another verse, but here in in this first verse, the story that we're being told is this idea of, of, um, of um, who God is and how God, um, draws us into the safe, secure space to, to stand upon, um, that help us to have confidence that we're not gonna, that we're not sinking in the midst of, of, um,

13:12.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

13:36.47
Nathan Pile
the world in which we stand. And so, and so yeah, it, it was like, sometimes I think we, today, even we discount our hymns, our hymnody, but there's still a theology that David and and the psalmist here is trying to teach us 2000, 3000 years after this has been written 3000 years after this has been written um about who God is.

13:59.62
Kevin Shock
Sure.

14:03.06
Nathan Pile
And so yeahs I think it's powerful. Yeah.

14:10.45
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

14:12.67
Kevin Shock
Good.

14:13.24
Nathan Pile
Anything else?

14:15.64
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. do you want to look at it a second time?

14:17.98
Nathan Pile
I'd say let's do it.

14:19.38
Kevin Shock
Okay.

14:22.36
Kevin Shock
From Psalm 40.

14:25.02
Kevin Shock
I waited patiently for the Lord. He inclined to me and heard my cry. He drew me up from the desolate pit, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure.

14:38.26
Kevin Shock
He put a new song in my mouth, the song of praise to our God. Many will see and fear and put their trust in the Lord. Happy are those who make the Lord their trust, who do not turn to the proud, to those who go astray after false gods.

14:54.14
Kevin Shock
You have multiplied, o Lord my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us. None can compare with you. Were I to proclaim and tell of them, they would be more than they could then they, they would be more than can be counted.

15:09.08
Kevin Shock
Sacrifice and offering you do not desire, but you have given me an open ear. Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required. Then I said, here I am.

15:19.94
Kevin Shock
In the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do your will, O my God. Your law is within my heart. I have told the glad news of deliverance in the great congregation.

15:31.80
Kevin Shock
See, I have not restrained my lips, as you know, O Lord. I have not hidden your saving help within my heart. I have spoken of your faithfulness and your salvation.

15:43.16
Kevin Shock
have not concealed your steadfast love and your faithfulness from the great congregation. Do not, O Lord, withhold your mercy from me. Let your steadfast love and your faithfulness keep me safe forever.

15:57.68
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

16:01.94
Nathan Pile
Um, praise is definitely one part of it. Um,

16:08.81
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

16:10.78
Nathan Pile
ah to to to name the ways, uh, like if I stay in that idea of that first stanza, that first image, you know, to be able to,

16:26.49
Nathan Pile
to be able to give praise to the God who has made me secure, um, to, to be able to recognize God's blessings, um, in, in my life and to, you know,

16:46.17
Nathan Pile
to to trust that God is the divine one. And so being able to sing that out to, to make it a part of, of my life, what does praise,

16:57.94
Nathan Pile
um what does my praise, how does, how does my praise exalt God, lift up God? Not that it, not that God needs that exaltation,

17:10.55
Nathan Pile
um some of it is that i need to to make that proclamation um for myself even to recognize you know when I give, when I give thanks and praise to God, it, it means that I'm not God right there's a, you know, we don't say that about our about worship right but but I think when we

17:11.75
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

17:34.26
Nathan Pile
when we give, when we offer a praise and, and worship to God, it helps us to know that we're not the, we're not the divine one. We're, we're looking to someone else other than ourselves as being all powerful and in control.

17:51.86
Nathan Pile
Um, Which I think, again, is a part of our, at least for me, as being a selfish human being, sometimes I think the world revolves around me, right?

18:04.66
Nathan Pile
And so thanks and praise helps me to reorient myself that I'm, I'm not what I think I am sometimes, which is the center of the world.

18:19.48
Nathan Pile
Everything should be my way. And so being able to

18:28.50
Nathan Pile
position myself to give thanks because of the blessings that have been given to me sometimes given to me, sometimes given to me,

18:45.91
Nathan Pile
It's just a part of, of the way creation has been formed. It's not so much given to Nathan, but but given to us as God's people. the the The beauty of the earth, the sustenance of food that surrounds us, all you all of that isn't so much just because God has given it to to me, but given it to, to, to all living things that we have a world that is so intertwined. And so being able to give praise and thanks for that um and recognizing that that I am reliant on God, you know, that's where that trust piece comes in.

19:26.78
Nathan Pile
And so being able to kind of live into

19:31.70
Nathan Pile
to that, to give thanks for it. Um, mean, I think, you know, how, how do i give, um, excuse me, how do I give thanks in a way that is,

19:49.69
Nathan Pile
you is specific again, I'm doing it not because God needs it, but, but it helps me to be, um it helps me to have gratitude. If I can, if I look at my life and I'm able to say, here is where I've seen God,

20:11.33
Nathan Pile
guiding me, blessing me, um blessing God's people. Um, again, it's that, and that, that thoughtfulness of, of taking a moment to see it, which makes my gratitude,

20:29.47
Nathan Pile
you know, it makes it more specific, but it also helps me to, to s-, to see that, that I need this divine being who lives alongside me.

20:45.55
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

20:47.09
Nathan Pile
um How about you, toward what is God calling you in this text?

20:50.55
Kevin Shock
Well, it similar to yours, I, praise is at the heart of it. um I also think that...

21:02.39
Kevin Shock
I don't know the word. it not, It's not cautious praise, but it is... um

21:14.14
Kevin Shock
ah think I think it's praise, praising God in a way that is that is worthy of reflecting what God has actually done in and reflecting what is at the heart of God.

21:21.72
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

21:27.29
Kevin Shock
um It's easy to praise whenever things are going our way. And, you know, oh, thanks, thanks be to God that that test came back negative.

21:41.94
Kevin Shock
Or that God healed me of my disease or illness. um Not that those things aren't praiseworthy, but I think sometimes praise turns into the...

22:00.47
Kevin Shock
praise praise quickly turns into the the prayer of the religious leaders in the gospel. ah i thank you, oh God, that you have not made me like those other people, those wretched people over there.

22:13.33
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yeah

22:16.76
Kevin Shock
And um so I'm, I'm intrigued again by that by that verse I mentioned at the very beginning of the of the podcast, um the verse three,

22:30.49
Kevin Shock
God put a new song in my mouth, the song of praise to our God. So there's something about the praise that I want to be sure that this is God's song of praise and not just my song of praise.

22:44.82
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

22:46.78
Kevin Shock
Because the song is put there. It's my mouth. I'm the one saying it. But the song the song itself comes from the heart of God. And I think it's important to pay attention to what God would have us say and praise.

23:05.37
Kevin Shock
Um, yeah. In the, in the midst of the congregation amongst our neighbors, amongst all the people who, you know, in the middle of all the people who are maybe themselves need reason to praise.

23:21.46
Kevin Shock
um And we can be, ah the the other thing that strikes me about this is, this, this Psalm is a Psalm of an evangelist.

23:31.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

23:31.67
Kevin Shock
The, the end of it is, is all about, Hey, look, you know, I've been, and not in a, not in a God, why are you doing this to me? have been faithful. or why are you letting this happen? I've been faithful, but in a sense of,

23:44.54
Kevin Shock
God, look how I'm responding to all of the wonderful things you've done for me and, and the way that you have blessed us in this world and this nation. And, um, um I'm going to go and tell people about it.

23:59.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:02.14
Nathan Pile
Well, and I appreciate the, um, I don't think I articulated that well, but I appreciate your clarification or your, just your reflection that, that the, that the song is about God, right?

24:02.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:14.71
Nathan Pile
The, the, the thanks and praise is about the actions of God. Um,

24:22.94
Nathan Pile
and, and though it's the Psalmist writing them down and it's us reading them now or singing them now, um, But all of it is, all of it is about the divine one who, who is who is acting in the world.

24:44.02
Nathan Pile
so, And, and how I,

24:46.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

24:50.39
Nathan Pile
how God's actions call forth...

24:58.13
Nathan Pile
actions from me, well inspire actions from me.

25:05.18
Nathan Pile
You know, it's that idea of, of God starts the, the snowball effect or the God starts the chain of events. And so being able to give thanks and praise to that, I think is, again, something that we name but is absolutely

25:28.86
Nathan Pile
the spark of the divine.

25:31.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yes, the spark of the divine. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, when we really start to unpack it, all this stuff comes from God.

25:42.20
Kevin Shock
The stuff that we want to praise comes from God, but the song itself comes from God, and then it returns to God because that's the one who ah

25:46.47
Nathan Pile
Right.

25:48.98
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

25:51.16
Kevin Shock
to whom we're giving praise. um And I don't think that that makes it in the sense of, ah well, we ah I think it could be taken that, well, we don't even have a part in this. It's just God doing all this stuff. um But what it really reflects to me is that how intimately God is involved in all that we all that we do and all that we are. um And that in and of itself is a praiseworthy thing.

26:31.51
Nathan Pile
um can Can I take us on a bit of a bunny trail for a minute? Because I looked at the third question and it's not going to take us there.

26:35.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure.

26:38.14
Nathan Pile
So um I'm interested, I'm interested in this

26:40.02
Kevin Shock
okay go ahead then

26:45.69
Nathan Pile
passage um again, as I talked a little bit about the history, um

26:55.93
Nathan Pile
how do you interpret this section about sacrifice and offering? Yeah,

27:05.98
Kevin Shock
The one that I mentioned before.

27:07.64
Nathan Pile
yeah, the sixth, that sixth verse that you kind of, um that they're not required. Because by Jesus' time,

27:19.03
Nathan Pile
right? Sacrifices as a major part of the temple. So a thousand years after this Psalm is written.

27:27.00
Kevin Shock
Oh, I think it is even before then, but yeah.

27:29.56
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

27:31.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:33.37
Nathan Pile
It was just an interesting path set up. And of course, you know, it could simply be

27:42.93
Nathan Pile
verse of a song. Um, That is simply saying that that

27:55.06
Nathan Pile
that you don't need these things, but we still offer them.

28:02.55
Nathan Pile
I guess maybe that, as I was reading it, to me it was like making a theological

28:09.50
Nathan Pile
statement or argument against um offerings, but it might simply be

28:12.89
Kevin Shock
yeah.

28:17.75
Nathan Pile
just as I said in my explanation or definite as I was doing my reflection, God doesn't need our praise and thanks. God doesn't need the songs, these offerings.

28:29.53
Kevin Shock
yeah

28:31.26
Nathan Pile
But we still offer them. we still We still sing songs. We still gather for worship. Not because God needs us to do that for God's self. Um,

28:44.99
Nathan Pile
I just, to me, it was an in an interesting statement. Again, this is my Lutheran Christian lens, a little bit of, of, you know, the things that the church did and we, we reformed, we, we, you know, decided we weren't going to do that in the church anymore. Um, I guess in some ways I read that line thinking, oh the Psalmist is saying that that we don't need to be doing burnt offerings.

29:10.49
Nathan Pile
Um,

29:14.04
Nathan Pile
But I know that that, that tradition doesn't disappear. And so may have simply have just been the intention of the author of saying, you don't need this, but we, know, because of who you are, you don't need this from us.

29:31.45
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, I don't know. I mean, you're using the word need there, but the word is desire.

29:38.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. You do not desire it. You're right.

29:41.91
Kevin Shock
ah Well, and yeah yeah, and you have not required, which which is which is weird because in the law, they are required.

29:52.78
Nathan Pile
It's true.

29:52.81
Kevin Shock
they're required to, They're required to make, make people right again before God.

30:01.62
Kevin Shock
to, to find reconciliation, um, though sin has broken the relationship. I think that

30:16.60
Kevin Shock
for me, there is a, um,

30:23.35
Kevin Shock
God has, I don't know. I don't know. This is, this is my interpretation and my interpretation alone. It's probably better to ask a ah Jewish scholar about this.

30:29.53
Nathan Pile
Sure. Here it is.

30:33.11
Kevin Shock
um

30:33.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

30:34.01
Kevin Shock
But my interpretation is that there

30:34.22
Nathan Pile
Sure.

30:38.01
Kevin Shock
the God has made a concession to preserve the relationship between God and the people. And so the people are going to sin no matter what. they're going to They're going to act unjustly. They're going to do things to break relationship, not just with God, but with the people around them.

30:57.76
Kevin Shock
They're not going to be a beacon to the nations. um And so God has given a way for them to welcome them back into temple practice and where they can find reconciliation and have the relationship renewed.

31:15.77
Kevin Shock
um That is, I don't want to say simple because it's still sacrifice. they're, They're giving up things that are important to them for the sake of this.

31:29.14
Kevin Shock
But it does, but, but it's, it's laid out pretty plainly about what you have to do

31:29.93
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

31:36.79
Kevin Shock
in order to be reconciled to God. um There

31:46.04
Kevin Shock
there are also places in the prophets throughout Hebrew scripture where it's clear that that has become, that that temple practice has become nothing more than going through the motions in order to retain some appearance of rightness with God.

32:00.02
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

32:06.07
Kevin Shock
And so I know that we hear not just in the psalm, but in various places in Hebrew scripture, that um God does not desire. The whole point of offering and sacrifice isn't that God wants it.

32:20.02
Kevin Shock
God wants us to be in good relationship with God and with one another. And so I think that that's... For the purposes of this psalm, it sounds to me like the psalmist has gotten to that point where the psalmist understands um this isn't about me offering sacrifices and offerings. This is about me listening to what you have to say and following your instruction.

32:49.72
Kevin Shock
Not going my own way.

32:49.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

32:51.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

32:51.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah. I appreciate how you laid that out.

32:56.79
Nathan Pile
Because ah that's the, that's the struggle I hear in this. In these verses. Not the struggle.

33:03.10
Kevin Shock
see

33:03.73
Nathan Pile
it's, it's, It's a part of the praise story I hear being shared by the psalmist. 3,000 years ago and for us today.

33:15.80
Nathan Pile
So yeah. Yeah.

33:19.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I'm just doing a quick Google search here. um

33:26.20
Kevin Shock
One place that we see this is 1 Samuel 15, 22. is first Samuel fifteen twenty two um And Samuel said, has the lord as great has Has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obedience to the voice of the Lord?

33:47.14
Kevin Shock
Surely to obey is better than sacrifice and to heed than the fat of rams.

33:54.26
Kevin Shock
So that's just one place. But I know there are other places in Scripture that talk about it too.

33:58.39
Nathan Pile
That that happens, yeah. Yeah.

33:59.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Well, Micah 6 is a place where, oh, here, here I found a list of all kinds. Well, three places in particular in Hebrew scripture.

34:14.55
Kevin Shock
and then, And then Jesus and in in Matthew, in Matthew specifically, and that's, we know that Matthew is the gospel that is written to Jewish people.

34:16.02
Nathan Pile
Then it happens, yeah. Then it happens a lot, yeah. new testament

34:21.22
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

34:29.66
Kevin Shock
um So it's Jesus repeats it there as well. But um Micah 6, 6 through 8, not going to read the whole thing, but shall I come before God with burnt offerings, with calves a years a year old?

34:45.72
Kevin Shock
Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams and with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

34:57.66
Kevin Shock
God has told you, O mortal, what is good and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God. And then Hosea 6.6, For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

35:16.02
Kevin Shock
So I think reading the psalm, it's really not about what God requires.

35:16.12
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

35:20.06
Kevin Shock
It's about what God desires. Yeah. Yeah, and then it's Jesus in Matthew 9, 13 that says, go and learn what this means. I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

35:31.84
Kevin Shock
And I appreciate how Jesus lays it out because that go and learn what this means to me indicates that this is a lifelong searching of figuring out how to live into the mercy of God.

35:48.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

35:53.94
Kevin Shock
you can, You can just keep doing all the sacrifices and everything will be fine. But is fine what you really want for your relationship with the Almighty? It certainly is not what the Almighty wants in God's relationship with you. Yeah. It's ah it's like when you someone asks you about, you know, how, how you know, how, how close are you with someone else? yeah Well, we get along.

36:24.21
Nathan Pile
it no Oh,

36:24.70
Kevin Shock
That's not the kind of relationship you want with God. to say yeah We get along. We we have an understanding. oh, Oh, man, I'll tell you what.

36:33.55
Nathan Pile
Your

36:33.69
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that that I've heard before. I've heard that from people.

36:36.38
Nathan Pile
yeah

36:37.05
Kevin Shock
but God and I have an understanding. Well, I think you have an understanding about what you want your relationship with God to be.

36:43.80
Nathan Pile
your relationship. Yeah.

36:45.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um and I'm not so sure that when people say God and I have an understanding that they've had a real deep conversation with God about the understanding.

36:47.40
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

36:55.26
Kevin Shock
um yeah but but what is that sure yeah yeah yeah and yeah interestingly

36:57.76
Nathan Pile
Well, because even this passage talks about that mercy piece, right? Even this passage talks about that mercy piece.

37:05.75
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

37:11.86
Kevin Shock
um

37:16.54
Kevin Shock
I don't know that, that whole phrase ah God and I have an understanding that to me speaks more along the lines of ah the the understanding being, um if, if I keep God at arm's length, God will keep me at arm's length too.

37:33.88
Kevin Shock
if I, If I don't get, if I don't bother myself with God's business, both- God isn't going bother God's self with my business either. Which is a, well,

37:44.25
Nathan Pile
Dangerous. That's a dangerous, uh, uh, cause it may not actually play out.

37:45.14
Kevin Shock
what well

37:50.14
Nathan Pile
God may not stay at, at arm's distance.

37:53.08
Kevin Shock
No, right, right, right.

37:53.24
Nathan Pile
Um,

37:54.52
Kevin Shock
why it it in that In that, I don't know. When you get when you get to that point, why are you even why wouldn't you just say, well, I hope there's really not a God because I'm screwed if there is.

38:09.98
Kevin Shock
I mean, you might as well say that. It's the same thing.

38:12.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

38:12.76
Kevin Shock
Yeah. But in any case, well, that was a fun bunny trail to go down, so thanks.

38:17.53
Nathan Pile
Anyway, let's do this a third time. Sorry I had to get us off in there. Yeah, no, it was curious to me and and I appreciate the conversation because I do think um like it helps us to flesh out ah an interpretation of the of the of the First Testament that was going on during the first testament that that that god doesn't desire our killing and sacrificing of things that that we've raised or even the oil that we've made you know like the the wasteful yeah yeah we're well right right but but you know we're a part of that as well

38:59.51
Kevin Shock
that what That God has made. Yeah.

39:07.26
Nathan Pile
but you the as the caretakers of of that which God has made.

39:07.61
Kevin Shock
Sure. oh Of course. Of course.

39:12.68
Nathan Pile
So um so I just appreciate that conversation.

39:13.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

39:17.02
Nathan Pile
cut to like Again, it just felt as if the psalmist was maybe, again, has has their own view of who God is and how God acts in the world.

39:34.93
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

39:36.38
Nathan Pile
Excuse me.

39:37.84
Kevin Shock
Plus you.

39:38.39
Nathan Pile
So, all right, let's do this a third time.

39:42.17
Kevin Shock
Okay.

39:45.40
Nathan Pile
I waited patiently for the Lord. He inclined to me and heard my cry. He drew me up from the desolate pit, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure.

39:57.91
Nathan Pile
He put a new song in my mouth, a song of praise to our God. Many will see and fear and put their trust in the Lord. Happy are those who make the Lord their trust.

40:20.01
Nathan Pile
Sorry, the website just closed on me. All right, here we go.

40:22.92
Kevin Shock
Oh.

40:24.86
Nathan Pile
I got the "aw snap."

40:29.82
Nathan Pile
Happy are those who put their trust... who do not turn to the proud, to those who go astray after false gods, who have multiplied, O Lord my God, your wondrous deeds and your thoughts toward us.

40:44.79
Nathan Pile
None can compare with you. Were I to proclaim and to tell of them, they would be more than can be counted. Sacrifice and offering you do not desire, but you have given open an open ear Burnt offering and sin offering you have not required.

41:06.39
Nathan Pile
Then I said, here I am. In the scroll of the book, it is written to of me. I delight to do your will, O my God. Your law is within my heart.

41:17.94
Nathan Pile
I have told the glad news of deliverance in the great congregation. See, I have not restrained my lips. As you know, o Lord, I have not hidden my saving help within my heart.

41:31.19
Nathan Pile
I have not hidden your saving help within my heart. I have spoken of your faithfulness and your salvation. I have not concealed your steadfast love and your faithfulness from the great congregation.

41:43.26
Nathan Pile
Do not, O Lord, withhold your mercy from me. Let your steadfast love and your faithfulness keep me safe forever.

41:55.06
Nathan Pile
Kevin, what will you tell and to whom? What plans are you making, buddy?

42:03.83
Kevin Shock
I don't have to make any plans because it's a part of my regular calling to go and tell people stuff. um I think that this, I think this new song, as we record this, we're heading into Christmas and there's a lot of good news to be told.

42:22.52
Kevin Shock
um I think it's important that we tell of the good news as it comes to us in scripture. And I think it's important that we tell of the good news as we see it reflected in this world today.

42:33.82
Kevin Shock
And that's what I, those are the, um, to, I looked at the footnote here in the in this psalm. the ah you have You have given me an open ear. the, The literal Hebrew is ears you have dug for me.

42:49.56
Kevin Shock
um those Those are the ears that God has dug for me to to listen for how the good news of scripture makes itself manifest in this day and age as well.

43:04.50
Kevin Shock
That we, as we talked about in the Christmas Eve episode, that salvation comes to a particular people and time and place.

43:17.69
Kevin Shock
And um the, the, the time is now, the place is here, and, and we are the people.

43:29.66
Kevin Shock
I mean, it certainly happened in the And when Emperor Augustus was reigning and when Quirinius was governor of Syria, um salvation came in a particular way. The salvation of the whole world, ah the saving grace of the whole world, the good news that God comes in flesh among us, not just not just in spirit, not just as some far off being, but God is born into our midst.

43:57.02
Kevin Shock
And that continues for us today. That's the good news. that um God is very as very present with us as God, God was when Jesus walked the earth.

44:09.85
Kevin Shock
And um who am I going to tell? I'm going to tell every congregation that I can find. um tell I'm going to tell the people who are who are sitting beneath every pulpit that I stand, and I'm going to...

44:19.63
Nathan Pile
Ha ha ha ha ha.

44:26.66
Kevin Shock
There are... Yeah, there are lots of people that I tell. I had a great phone call yesterday. No, two days ago. ah One of my friends who's not ah who's not a churchgoer, but in recent years has has been reawakened to, or, or maybe awakened to the first time for for the goodness of God. He grew up in a strict Roman Catholic culture.

44:54.38
Nathan Pile
hmm

44:54.58
Kevin Shock
and you know and, and he said, He told me there's stuff he can say to me that if he had told Monsignor so-and-so, he said the guy's name, and I don't, you know, ah back when he was a teenager, he would have gotten slapped across the knuckles with a, with a rod.

45:10.23
Kevin Shock
um um But he can say stuff to me, and I listen to him, and I say that, you know, maybe he's not all that far off because we interpret scripture differently. But, you know, I mean...

45:24.72
Kevin Shock
He's the kind of person outside the church who asks me, what is the, what, what really is the good news, Kevin? and And he forces me to articulate it.

45:32.46
Nathan Pile
Sure.

45:36.06
Kevin Shock
And then he told me in the phone call the other day, ah if there's anything I can do to help you spread it, let me know.

45:45.59
Kevin Shock
And this is not a guy who goes to church. But this is the kind of people that I wish were in all of our congregations. And I, and I know that we have them out there.

45:56.73
Kevin Shock
So the point of this question isn't just so you and I can talk about it, Nathan, but I want the people who are listening to this to think about what the good news is for them and who they're going to tell about it.

46:08.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

46:09.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Cause you and I have it built in, like, like I, I get to go tell it in a place every week, at least once a week.

46:12.97
Nathan Pile
Right.

46:16.43
Nathan Pile
Right.

46:17.98
Kevin Shock
Um, and that's just the part of the practice of who I am. But, um, The other thing I guess I want to say in response to this question is if you're afraid to tell anybody else the next time you see me, tell me what the good news is.

46:34.95
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

46:34.97
Kevin Shock
I will listen and I want to hear it from you and I need to hear it. I need to hear good news from people just like anybody needs to hear good news from me.

46:40.68
Nathan Pile
yeah

46:44.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

46:46.54
Nathan Pile
yeah well and I love, I love that your reflection here of this a) that, that um, as a part of our call um as as uh pastors and preachers you know it it is a

46:48.28
Kevin Shock
So, yeah.

47:07.96
Nathan Pile
it is a, a part of our call is to weekly go out and and proclaim the good news. And you know again, I think as you reflected, I find that to be an exciting part of our call.

47:23.10
Nathan Pile
You know, when you preach all the time, it can wear at times on you. Sure. It's like anything. with Too much of a good thing gets tiring after a while.

47:34.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well.

47:34.38
Nathan Pile
um but But the idea of proclaiming, it is baked into our our our work. um and And that's a part of being blessed, I think, to be called to be a leader in the church.

47:50.30
Nathan Pile
you know as ah Even as a camp director, um I'll spend a significant amount of time the next six months preparing Bible study and worship plans for our summer season.

48:03.85
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

48:03.90
Nathan Pile
Because it's what we it's what we're here to do. It's a part it's a major part of, of being a faith-based camp is that we're living and practicing prayer.

48:17.24
Nathan Pile
being faithful and and worship is one of those ways that we do that. That does, it does mean that we work really hard to be creative and, and, um and, and bring it to a place where our campers for that week, whether they be,

48:31.58
Nathan Pile
young day campers or older residential campers um that we're we're hitting them where they're at. were we're We're engaging them in that scripture passage where they're at and and through the things that are going on in their life.

48:45.30
Nathan Pile
But that I'm also out in congregations, not every week, but many weeks of the year, sometimes just bringing information about camp, but sometimes just supplying or meeting a need for the congregation that I'm, that I'm with.

49:00.25
Nathan Pile
but the need for good news is constantly there. And so, um, it's, it's rare for me to not leave worship. Like it's super rare for me not to leave worship and feel, um,

49:17.82
Nathan Pile
and feel fed by the experience of, of that. And so that's a blessing of, of leading worship.

49:21.41
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

49:23.54
Nathan Pile
And again, being part of this call and not necessarily because, wow, that was a great sermon, Nathan, more about more.

49:33.70
Nathan Pile
It's just about our, our time of community together, celebrating the God who, who loves us and has done these divine things that makes it,

49:47.54
Nathan Pile
makes it necessary for me, not because of God, but because of me to give that thanks and praise. um And so being able to have that opportunity and how we do that together and continuing to find ways, again, as you shared your story, like, I think that's that's the challenge for all of us is how do we help people hear the story?

50:13.59
Nathan Pile
Because I think the story of, of God is one we all yearn for, seek, but sometimes we didn't hear, we weren't ready to hear the story. Sometimes the story wasn't being told very well to us um and our human,

50:35.10
Nathan Pile
Stuff gets in the way. It could be me as a pastor. I'm not doing a good job of being creative enough to help people hear the good news of of a specific passage or something like that that, that I have my own stuff going on in my own life. And so maybe there's stuff getting in the way of that.

50:51.35
Nathan Pile
um But how do we how do we keep striving to tell the story? you know I've been doing this for twenty almost 20 years. you've done it You've done it longer than I have.

51:06.42
Nathan Pile
This next year will be 20 years for you right of, of ordained ministry.

51:06.83
Kevin Shock
Not much longer, but yeah. who

51:11.66
Nathan Pile
Now you did it before then because you were leading ministry in other ways before that even.

51:12.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

51:17.66
Nathan Pile
So yeah. And I as well, but, but, you know, officially called, I guess that's pastor. You'll celebrate 20 years this year, right? um Congratulations.

51:28.90
Nathan Pile
um

51:29.69
Kevin Shock
Thanks.

51:30.58
Nathan Pile
But, but being able to continue to tell that story, but to find those among us who, who are in need of hearing the story again, or sometimes they need us to hear their story first.

51:49.98
Nathan Pile
to be able to hear the story. Like, again, your story compounds how important that is for us as the church, for me, of, of how do we how can we be about those conversations so that others feel like they have a place?

51:52.83
Kevin Shock
Sure.

52:09.69
Nathan Pile
Because we do use churchy words and, and you know you and I try to flesh that out when we do on this podcast. But I think it's a message that we all, because we've been created by the divine, there's a, there's ah there's a part of the divine within us.

52:27.54
Nathan Pile
And not hearing the story means that that part has been hungry

52:35.45
Nathan Pile
and maybe curious to hear that divine part of the story again. And so how how can we help...

52:46.55
Nathan Pile
how do we help um share that story? and And if it means listening first so that we might start share the story second, then how do we do that as a church?

52:59.16
Nathan Pile
both. Both share the story, but also do the listening whenever that that listening is needed.

53:05.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

53:08.89
Nathan Pile
And I'm with you.

53:09.08
Kevin Shock
Well, I think.

53:09.81
Nathan Pile
I'll tell anybody that'll listen. I'll tell the story. Let me let me tell the story.

53:15.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:15.88
Nathan Pile
Whoever whoever is

53:17.24
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:17.59
Nathan Pile
um is is wants to hear it, I um I want to, I want to share that. But in a way that also helps them hear it.

53:25.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:27.83
Kevin Shock
Right, right. and, And I want to hear, I'm willing to listen to anyone who has something to tell.

53:35.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

53:36.24
Kevin Shock
That's the other thing. Yeah.

53:39.83
Nathan Pile
Because it's our story, right? It's God's story, but it's our story.

53:43.32
Kevin Shock
Right, it's our story. That's right. That's right. And, and um ah pastors and preachers do not corner the market on good news. No, it's...

53:57.96
Kevin Shock
that's, That's just in this.

53:58.17
Nathan Pile
we need to hear And we need to hear your good news, as you said before.

54:01.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

54:01.38
Nathan Pile
We need to hear that too.

54:02.58
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

54:06.23
Kevin Shock
Right. No matter no matter how small or insignificant you may think it is, I think the more that we practice sharing good news, because I think gratitude goes hand in hand with that too,

54:19.96
Kevin Shock
then we, then we just, we build up momentum of being grateful people and people who are aware of the goodness of God. And if we're aware of that, then it changes our whole perspective of how we how we view the world, but also how we, how we operate in the world.

54:41.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

54:42.58
Kevin Shock
And we desperately need that. Yeah.

54:51.26
Kevin Shock
So Nathan and I want to hear your good news. You can email it to us.

54:56.34
Kevin Shock
You can share it on social media and someone will read it. um But really, next time you see us in person, yeah find something to tell us about too. Yeah.

55:11.90
Nathan Pile
We appreciate bumping into you wherever we bump into each other. Mm-hmm.

55:14.90
Kevin Shock
We do. we really We really, really do. Yeah. Yeah, because this isn't about... I mean, Nathan and I have said this, this isn't about us getting, this is not a monetized podcast. This isn't about us getting downloads or likes or anything like that, but we really just really feel a strong call.

55:38.52
Kevin Shock
to share the goodness of scripture with other people. and And part of it is when we're out and about and we hear your reflections on things that we have said and your reflections on the text that we are reading, it really brings home to us that we're helping to build community and that and that we are we're facilitating something in the church that is a good and and holy thing to do.

56:09.21
Kevin Shock
So we really, yeah, we, it gives a, it gives us, um, encouragement to keep going because we see how God is working through these little conversations that we have with each other.

56:25.72
Kevin Shock
Um, so anyway, that, um, yeah, that's, uh,

56:35.11
Kevin Shock
That's what we're about. And that's what we like to hear. Yeah.

56:44.66
Kevin Shock
Nathan has a, Nathan has a puppy that is crawling all over him, literally all over him. I don't know how he's doing it.

56:50.94
Nathan Pile
Sorry. My child is calling. and Dog is crawling. and

56:56.63
Kevin Shock
This is obviously the, we're getting into the chaos of Christmas right now. So this is a,

57:00.79
Nathan Pile
Chaos. Chaos.

57:03.48
Kevin Shock
Well, anyway, I think the point is let's share with one another.

57:05.12
Nathan Pile
Sorry.

57:08.31
Kevin Shock
Let's share this good news. ah Let's look at some additional texts. for the second Sunday after the Epiphany.

57:18.87
Kevin Shock
ah In addition to what you just heard from the Psalm 40, and i did I did look up the lyrics to the U2 song. It really is just the Psalm. It's just pieces of the Psalm that are put to music.

57:30.18
Nathan Pile
It's the pieces of this whole song, huh?

57:32.56
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, so...

57:32.95
Nathan Pile
Interesting. Interesting.

57:35.45
Kevin Shock
um Isaiah chapter 49 verses 1 through 7, the servant brings light to the nations. 1 Corinthians chapter 1 verses 1 through 9 is Paul's greeting to the church at Corinth.

57:47.64
Kevin Shock
And John 1 verses 29 through 42 is the revelation of Christ as the Lamb of God. So I think we've said enough. We love to hear your reflections. And thank you again, Nathan, for your reflections on this text and opening this scripture up to me in a new way. And folks, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

58:12.38
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

58:13.88
Nathan Pile
And peace.