S4 Episode 12: Matthew 5:13-20

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you let your light shine?

Additional texts:

Isaiah 58:1-12

Psalm 112:1-10

1 Corinthians 2:1-16

Transcript

00:00:01.66
Nathan Pile
Welcome back, everyone. it is time to Tend. um And this week, Kevin has um has set us up with ah the translation of the Common English Bible.

00:00:15.66
Nathan Pile
You guys know how much Kevin loves that puppy.

00:00:18.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:00:19.83
Nathan Pile
um

00:00:19.96
Kevin Shock
Surprise, surprise.

00:00:21.05
Nathan Pile
Surprise, surprise. It is a continuation of last week's reading, so I'm sure... It'll be interesting to see those connections and maybe even the difference of the translation.

00:00:32.91
Nathan Pile
But thinking about those beatitudes.

00:00:33.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, um, yeah, I, uh, I didn't even really remember that we had done this, uh, what comes right before this text last week, but, um, yeah.

00:00:47.93
Kevin Shock
It is so I don't, I didn't think it would hurt to have a continuation. At least we know what, at least we know what comes before this in the text.

00:00:52.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah, no, I think it's- comes right before it, right?

00:00:56.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:00:56.76
Nathan Pile
And and um we don't like a lot of times those listening, Kevin and I will ourselves go back and reread what's what happens just before or just after a text, even probably while we're talking to you all.

00:01:10.97
Nathan Pile
And that's one of those things that they teach you at seminary is to try to understand the context in which your passage is in. Yeah. one of those habits that we got ingrained in us in seminary.

00:01:24.23
Nathan Pile
I didn't do it so often before seminary, I guess, but but but by so by the time I was in seminary, I think I encountered it a little bit in college because I did do a little bit of, well, one of my majors was religion.

00:01:28.12
Kevin Shock
No, not before seminary.

00:01:37.47
Nathan Pile
So, um but so, We talk about it now in saying it's pretty common for us to try to figure out what's what's the context, what else has happened in the story, both that the author wants us to know and what's happened just before that Jesus and his disciples were living through or or going through. until Because what comes right before often has changed.

00:02:05.46
Nathan Pile
makes connections to what's happening now, just as we try to look at Scripture and do that on a regular basis in our own lives.

00:02:16.98
Nathan Pile
So it makes sense to do that here. So we're looking at Matthew chapter 5, verses 13 to 20. yes Last week was verse 1 through 12 of chapter 5. So we are going to use the Common English Bible translation today. You can follow along with whatever Bible you have or go to BibleGateway.com.

00:02:34.36
Nathan Pile
um I did find on eBay, Kevin, a new lightly used Common English Study Bible.

00:02:45.44
Nathan Pile
So I do have one now on my shelf.

00:02:47.91
Kevin Shock
Oh, wow.

00:02:48.06
Nathan Pile
um Yeah, yeah, very exciting.

00:02:49.27
Kevin Shock
Nice.

00:02:50.66
Nathan Pile
Also, it's large print. I had to ah splurge for the...

00:02:55.62
Kevin Shock
I know how important that is for you.

00:02:57.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I had to, because all summer I've been using the ones that we bought for the kids here, but that print is so tiny. I definitely have to wear my glasses for it. So, uh, so it's nice to get some 12 point font, CEB, so I can read.

00:03:17.40
Nathan Pile
Three questions are going to be how we discuss today's tests, text. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And our third question this week, how do you let your light shine?

00:03:32.15
Nathan Pile
Really good batteries. Really good batteries.

00:03:34.75
Kevin Shock
Yep, there you go.

00:03:39.22
Kevin Shock
Here is some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

00:03:50.26
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:04:02.97
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of Scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

00:04:14.23
Kevin Shock
As Nathan said, we're continuing from what we heard last week, Matthew 5, verses 13 through 20.

00:04:15.70
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:04:23.00
Kevin Shock
Jesus said you are the salt of the earth, but if salt loses its saltiness, how will it become salty again? It's good for nothing except to be thrown away and trampled under people's feet.

00:04:35.45
Kevin Shock
You are the light of the world. The city on top of a hill can't be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket. Instead, they put it on top of a lampstand, and it shines on all who are in the house.

00:04:48.02
Kevin Shock
In the same way, let your light shine before people so they can see the good things you do, and praise your Father who is in heaven. Don't even begin to think that I have come to do away with the law and the prophets,

00:05:00.64
Kevin Shock
I haven't come to do away with them, but to fulfill them. I say to you very seriously that as long as heaven and earth exist, neither the smallest letter nor even the smallest stroke of a pen will be erased from the law until everything there becomes a reality.

00:05:17.34
Kevin Shock
Therefore, whoever ignores one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be called the lowest in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps these commands and teaches people to keep them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

00:05:32.41
Kevin Shock
I say to you that unless your righteousness is greater than the righteousness of the legal experts and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. If you are meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and ask the questions of one another.

00:05:50.22
Kevin Shock
Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:05:53.69
Nathan Pile
The word there is what caught my attention as you read it this time through. um T-H-E-R-E down in verse 18.

00:06:06.14
Nathan Pile
The smallest stroke of a pen will be erased, not nor even the smallest stroke of a pen will be erased from the law until everything there becomes a reality.

00:06:19.10
Nathan Pile
And so that sent me in quickly into a what's there what are all of the things that the son of god and god would want to make sure are fulfilled before the law would be erased so what you know um not that that would be erased but here the the image is that not even know neither the smallest letter nor even the smallest stroke of a pen will be erased from the law until everything there becomes a reality so the the the the seeking of living in righteousness living living in right relationship with god will become a reality um and so what are the pieces

00:07:11.16
Nathan Pile
of that reality

00:07:16.28
Nathan Pile
was was the thing that kind of struck me or was the question that kind of popped into my head of of as Jesus is talking here, as as Jesus is is talking about salt and light and talking about Jesus and the law or himself and the law, this this idea of,

00:07:38.71
Nathan Pile
of coming to fulfill the law,

00:07:43.67
Nathan Pile
what what parts of righteousness, what part of right living is, right relationship with God that Jesus is coming to fulfill for us.

00:07:56.64
Nathan Pile
faithfulness to God you know is it is it just about the 10 commandments is it about the 623 command, commands uh of the of the first testament that Jesus is trying to you know what is what is everything there

00:08:18.01
Nathan Pile
so So I think that's the, that as i as you read, that was the thing that kind of popped out. that you know There's lots of good stuff in this passage. The salt and light stuff is up in the first part. And so I was playing around with that. But i was as I was listening, when you said there, I was like, ooh, that's my question for the today for today as I'm looking at this passage.

00:08:41.91
Nathan Pile
How about you? What word, phrase, or image strikes you

00:08:46.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah, there's a lot going on in this text that I am curious about. um But I, well, I'm just going give one answer because I know you don't like for me to give more than one answer.

00:09:01.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah, but you find a way to get more than one answer usually.

00:09:03.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I know.

00:09:03.49
Nathan Pile
so

00:09:04.15
Kevin Shock
um I'm,

00:09:09.51
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Okay. I'm

00:09:13.11
Nathan Pile
Everybody, he's strategizing how to get them all in.

00:09:13.78
Kevin Shock
Jesus.

00:09:15.73
Nathan Pile
He's going to have one sentence.

00:09:15.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah, no.

00:09:16.88
Nathan Pile
He's going it all put together.

00:09:19.13
Kevin Shock
It's the, it's the, the detail of the law. Jesus. Jesus seems to imply that every detail of the law is important.

00:09:31.41
Kevin Shock
um

00:09:31.74
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:09:35.64
Kevin Shock
But then he also

00:09:40.70
Kevin Shock
he also encourages his disciples to have greater righteousness than the people who are concerned with the details of the law.

00:09:51.17
Kevin Shock
And I don't think that he's contradicting himself, but I think that he is, think he's letting his followers know that maybe what I mean by the details of the law aren't the same as what the,

00:10:07.96
Kevin Shock
the self-righteous religious leaders think are the details of the law.

00:10:16.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah. um

00:10:20.60
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, and I don't know. there's There's a lot of questions I have around that whole um

00:10:28.86
Kevin Shock
being in the kingdom of heaven or having that reality, as you said, having that reality of the kingdom of heaven shaped um because then there yeah there seems to be clear clear instruction that you're you're supposed to uphold these laws but then but then there's some criticism for the ones who are trying to uphold these laws uh like maybe they don't get them you get the idea um

00:11:06.87
Kevin Shock
And there are other places too, maybe not so much here, but there are other places too where in their in their insistence in people upholding the law, it it it seems as though they're they're missing the whole point of the law.

00:11:25.78
Nathan Pile
Well, and we get that in all of the Gospels, right? The the Pharisees and Sadducees and the other legal experts over and over again don't seem to get a right, don't seem to have a right understanding of the law from Jesus and his disciples' perspective.

00:11:37.18
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:11:48.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:11:49.08
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah I, yeah. I just, I looked at the heading there too, Jesus and the law, and, and that makes me wonder is, is the point of this section to tell his followers what we're supposed to do or is it to talk, Is it to show something about his relationship with the law?

00:12:11.99
Kevin Shock
Because he definitely talks about it in that section as well. um

00:12:18.62
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:12:18.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And this is the same gospel where he says that all of the, the entirety of the law and prophets are upheld in two commandments.

00:12:21.02
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:12:28.95
Kevin Shock
Love God and love your neighbor with your whole being. So that, yeah.

00:12:38.12
Kevin Shock
He's not saying

00:12:41.63
Kevin Shock
he's not giving people permission to break the law when he says that. But there's an implication in that teaching that um

00:12:55.67
Kevin Shock
making sure that every detail is preserved maybe isn't the point of the law.

00:13:03.03
Kevin Shock
I don't know. What do you think?

00:13:05.76
Nathan Pile
Well, again, I would say I think Jesus is again, our context tells us that we're getting the first section of Jesus talking about the law here of this chapter.

00:13:05.78
Kevin Shock
but, but yeah

00:13:20.28
Kevin Shock
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:13:21.27
Nathan Pile
um What follows is law, law, law, law, law, law, law of love. So it's one, two, three, four, five more sections about the law specifically so the law of murder the law of adultery the law of divorce a law of so solemn pledges the law of retaliation and then the law of love um

00:13:55.86
Nathan Pile
and so and the law of law of love is you know you've heard it said that you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who harass you. So, so that last paragraph of this law. and, And if we put all of that law in context to happy are they. So again, this is the translation. Kevin and I are reading. Happy are people who are hopeless. um Blessed are would have been what we read last week. Blessed are people who are hopeless because the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

00:14:31.13
Nathan Pile
So we're talking about.

00:14:36.41
Nathan Pile
kind of every the the everyday follower of God. um

00:14:44.54
Nathan Pile
And what are the kinds of things how, how are they blessed in the first part of this, then we talk about salt and light, which I think is an interesting thing.

00:14:58.17
Nathan Pile
um Because from a science perspective, salt is always s salty. The only way it's not salt is that it has a chemical change and becomes not salty.

00:15:13.46
Kevin Shock
yeah. yeah.

00:15:14.97
Nathan Pile
So this idea of you are salt of the earth, but if salt loses its saltiness, how will it become salty again? Well, it can't lose its saltiness of its salt. If it's if it's become not salt, the only way for it to become salt again is to have a chemical reaction to go back to being salt.

00:15:28.15
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:15:35.64
Nathan Pile
um And so, you know, so again, ah um I'm stuck with the, well, how does how does this play out? You know, you've, you've, you physically, at a chemical um level have changed, otherwise it's still salt.

00:15:53.68
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:15:53.88
Nathan Pile
And there's still even times when there's a chemical change that that's still salty.

00:15:54.35
Kevin Shock
Mm.

00:15:58.36
Nathan Pile
um You know, salt water for instance is, you know, there's still salt in the water.

00:16:07.61
Nathan Pile
So it's not N-A-L, N-A-C-L. When it stops being N-A-C-L, then is it still salty?

00:16:18.87
Nathan Pile
I you get guess the only way you can do it in nose is to try and taste it, I guess. um

00:16:25.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah, what...

00:16:25.43
Nathan Pile
But I guess we're getting to the point of your, go ahead.

00:16:29.98
Kevin Shock
Well, I, no, I, I wondered about this earlier, too, as I was reading this. um That, yeah, and what you say makes sense to me as a non-scientific person, or, you know, I have a passing knowledge of science, but not not a strong one. um I... Even if... So even if salt...

00:16:55.39
Kevin Shock
hits water or vice versa and is diluted, it still remains salt.

00:17:03.88
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:17:04.34
Kevin Shock
It's just dilute. Um, yeah, right. There's no, I suppose salt can become dirty. i don't know. In preservation, does salt lose its function ever? Or, I mean, the whole point of putting salt in preserves is to keep the food that's in there preserved. Um,

00:17:25.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, I don't know.

00:17:27.32
Nathan Pile
Right. yeah We use salt for to preserve ham, to you know to do that kind of, that's ham is so salty. right

00:17:32.89
Kevin Shock
Well, in Jesus' time too, ah salt would have been used much more much more widely as a preservative because they didn't have refrigeration, things like that.

00:17:35.61
Nathan Pile
would been used. Yep.

00:17:41.18
Nathan Pile
Right. Right. And so like, blessed are you, blessed are the people?

00:17:51.86
Nathan Pile
Are you always blessed? You know, is, is that what so we're coming out of that section of the Beatitudes? Is it that we're always blessed? Um,

00:18:04.82
Nathan Pile
that there's nothing that takes that away. You're the light of the world.

00:18:11.15
Nathan Pile
shine Shine so others can see it. And then we go to the law. And so like, this is just me kind of talking out loud about what this, the context of this chapter today. um

00:18:20.56
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:18:21.62
Nathan Pile
You know, so do do we go from being named and claimed, I guess in some way as being blessed, being told that's the eight, you know, now people wouldn't have understood at Jesus's time, chemical compounds.

00:18:38.14
Nathan Pile
And so,

00:18:42.58
Nathan Pile
you know, understanding that salt isn't salty, you would throw it away. I think most people would say, yeah, if it's not salty, then you're going throw it away. If it's not doing what its job is, people wouldn't necessarily understand that salt's not

00:18:51.08
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:18:57.50
Nathan Pile
Salt doesn't not change. um So they're just, if it's no good, yeah, sure, you throw it away. and um

00:19:09.24
Nathan Pile
But from, from our perspective, looking at this, salt doesn't change. And so you are what you are. So if you're blessed up above, you're still blessed here and you're called to be a light to the world. And then this this section of the law comes in

00:19:26.84
Nathan Pile
as a way to guide us to live in right relationship with God from Jesus, from, you know, Jesus kind of saying, this is where, this is how the law is, what this is, you know, the relationship between me and the law and God and the law. and that we're to be living towards right relationship together.

00:19:50.30
Nathan Pile
And then we name specific laws.

00:20:03.16
Nathan Pile
And that last, I'm trying to understand that last law, law of love paragraph at the end in connection with all of this, you know, and that's where the, the, the saltiness, I guess, to me might play out or function.

00:20:20.66
Nathan Pile
Um, you know, if you're, if you're blessed and loved, you're called to be light

00:20:32.62
Nathan Pile
and, if they're your enemies or your neighbor, you're still called to love them.

00:20:40.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:42.49
Nathan Pile
You know, kind of a thing. And so down through all of this law, of this way of living in right relationship with God,

00:20:54.42
Nathan Pile
in the, in the end, you're still supposed to be the humble, blessed person from the beginning of this chapter.

00:21:04.44
Nathan Pile
And so that that means love and compassion for neighbor or enemy.

00:21:14.84
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:21:16.89
Nathan Pile
You still have to be salt.

00:21:19.44
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:21:19.61
Nathan Pile
if, If I claim to assault, you are salt. And no matter

00:21:26.97
Nathan Pile
retaliate, whatever your feelings, retaliation or making a promise to someone else or,

00:21:36.41
Nathan Pile
you know

00:21:39.86
Nathan Pile
cheating on someone cheating on someone, committing murder, all of those things, no matter if one of these things happens to you, you're still supposed to be salt down here. You're still supposed to be loving others.

00:21:54.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. and there And there we have one of those words that I don't like.

00:22:02.18
Nathan Pile
There's only a few words that you don't like?

00:22:04.57
Kevin Shock
Well, supposed to be.

00:22:06.14
Nathan Pile
should, that word should

00:22:07.74
Kevin Shock
yeah. yeah um Because Jesus says, you are the salt of the world.

00:22:16.44
Kevin Shock
um He doesn't say, and and I think, I think in popular Christian culture, we, um

00:22:28.47
Kevin Shock
you know, I've seen like, made I don't know, t-shirts, bumper stickers, you know, stickers, whatever, that that say like, be salt and light.

00:22:39.32
Nathan Pile
Yes, yeah.

00:22:39.93
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, and I understand that, but Jesus, yeah, you are, right, you are the salt of the earth.

00:22:44.39
Nathan Pile
Already said you are.

00:22:48.92
Kevin Shock
You are the light of the world. Yeah,

00:22:54.30
Kevin Shock
yeah I don't know. um

00:22:58.10
Nathan Pile
So if you are.

00:23:01.27
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right. What should you do?

00:23:06.65
Nathan Pile
Well, what you be salt, right? Or you, you be light. It's not that you, but you are, you're gifted that way.

00:23:14.62
Kevin Shock
ah

00:23:17.85
Nathan Pile
Salt has been, you know, salt was created, is made salt. You are a beloved child of God, blessed. If we're going to use the language from up above, you are a blessed child of God.

00:23:33.02
Nathan Pile
So be a blessed child of God. um

00:23:35.96
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well... Yeah, I don't disagree. I think... So this isn't a... This isn't an easy formula.

00:23:44.47
Nathan Pile
No, no, no. Trying to put this all trying to make a sense out of all of it.

00:23:50.10
Kevin Shock
Yeah, this is, right, this is lifelong learning, what we're talking about here.

00:23:56.39
Nathan Pile
No.

00:23:57.91
Kevin Shock
What does it mean?

00:23:58.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I started to, I started to read the book that you were going to do for Lent, for our Lenten study.

00:24:02.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:24:03.60
Nathan Pile
So here's our little promo for that, everyone coming up in the end of February. Kevin and I will be leading a Tuesday evening session on Lutheran voices, claiming our Lutheran voice or how to, I don't remember what we titled it off the top of my head here, but it's something around living into our Lutheran voice or something like that. So I don't have the schedule in front of me, of course. Um,

00:24:33.17
Nathan Pile
haven't reorganized my office since the new year.

00:24:36.24
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:24:36.44
Nathan Pile
the But that idea of Martin, like Martin Luther really struggled with being sinner. But the first part of this introduction of this book talks about that that struggle Luther has until Luther finally starts to understand Paul and Paul's theology of saying...

00:25:02.63
Nathan Pile
You're a saint and you're a sinner. and, And finally, and, and, and that, that Luther argues, screams, it does say that he does that in private.

00:25:15.51
Nathan Pile
His struggles with God were in private, Luther, Luther tells us, but that that it's but that he was very grieved by this, how do you live trying to be righteous?

00:25:19.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:25:32.09
Nathan Pile
and yet everything being a gift.

00:25:34.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:25:35.32
Nathan Pile
um and and And Paul's theology eventually finds a way of of helping Luther feel free, freed enough to say that he's saint and sinner, that he's not beating himself up, that he can't possibly live well enough.

00:25:52.06
Nathan Pile
There's nothing that he can do to earn the grace, the love and forgiveness that God gives him.

00:25:58.36
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:25:58.74
Nathan Pile
um So I think that's a, a powerful piece here of of what still you and I, you know, I know that that word should, I don't love it either, but I use it a little bit more freely than you do.

00:26:19.74
Nathan Pile
But that idea of how do we,

00:26:24.76
Nathan Pile
how do we, live in this position of law and gospel, saint and sinner, things that seem like they are um

00:26:37.12
Nathan Pile
opposed to one another, and yet somehow God has found a way through both of them to to love and redeem the world.

00:26:49.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:26:50.71
Nathan Pile
and And there's dissonance in that for us, I think as theologians and and I think as Lutheran at least for me myself, I can't say for you, but for me as a Lutheran Christian, I've, I've wrestled with this long enough that I'm at ease with my own unease around that, recognizing that I understand that that all of this is given to me as a gift, and yet I'm still called to be light in the world.

00:27:17.75
Kevin Shock
Mhm.

00:27:17.98
Nathan Pile
And that it's not a should, that I should do that in that, like I have to do it so that I can, so so that, because I'm salt, so that I can be salt.

00:27:27.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:27.18
Nathan Pile
I'm not doing it to be this thing. The gift is already given, but because of this gift, I'm then called to it. But there is that tension that, that does linger there for us, I think.

00:27:40.60
Nathan Pile
it was just interesting because I was reading this yesterday. I was reading yesterday about that kind of stuff. And, and then obviously we get into this here and I'm like, oh, there it is again.

00:27:49.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:27:53.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Um, Hmm. Well, I think maybe we should look at it a second time because we, I could keep going down this road for a long, long time.

00:28:00.78
Nathan Pile
I think so. agree.

00:28:08.45
Kevin Shock
I don't even know what road, how we got on this road. We were talking about, I was talking about the details of the law and now we're onto salt and light.

00:28:16.57
Nathan Pile
Because I took a step. It was the other area that I was toying around with in my head.

00:28:18.97
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, but yeah.

00:28:21.06
Nathan Pile
um All right. So we're going to do the second time. The question is going to be toward what is God calling you in this text? If you need to hear the question before I read it there for you, Kevin.

00:28:34.36
Nathan Pile
Or anyone else listening in your car or at home on a pile of salt someplace.

00:28:36.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:28:42.23
Nathan Pile
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its saltiness, how will it become salty again? It's good for nothing except to be thrown away and trampled under people's feet.

00:28:55.29
Nathan Pile
You are the light of the world. A city on top of a hill can't be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket. Instead, they put it on a top of a lampstand and it shines on all who are in the house.

00:29:11.67
Nathan Pile
In the same way, let your light shine before people so that so they can see the good things you do and praise your Father who is in heaven. Don't even begin to think that I have come to do away with the law and the prophets.

00:29:28.12
Nathan Pile
I haven't come to do away with them, but to fulfill them. I say to you very seriously that so as long as heaven and earth exist, neither the smallest letter nor even the smallest stroke of a pen will be erased from the law until everything there becomes a reality.

00:29:47.37
Nathan Pile
Therefore, whoever ignores one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be called the lowest in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps these commands and teaches people to keep them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

00:30:03.10
Nathan Pile
I say to you that unless your righteousness is greater than the righteousness of the legal experts and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

00:30:15.45
Nathan Pile
Toward what is God calling you in this text, Kevin?

00:30:21.56
Kevin Shock
Well, it seems clear that God is calling me toward greater righteousness. ah But again, I don't know exactly what that means. I, I, Yeah, I don't know. I, As you were reading this, I was envisioning, what what would it be like for someone to try to proof text this reading? um You know, someone, they see someone who's doing something that they consider to be an unchristian thing to do.

00:30:58.26
Kevin Shock
And, you know, so they could easily point to this chapter and say, well, Jesus said not one letter, not even the stroke of a pen will pass away before before he fulfills the law.

00:31:13.02
Kevin Shock
um And and that, you know, and that we're supposed to keep every detail of the law. um What does he say exactly?

00:31:25.30
Kevin Shock
About ignoring one of the least of these commands. um, um, But, but there's there's so much going on in here that proof texting one verse from this section seems like an unfaithful thing to do.

00:31:41.08
Kevin Shock
Because all of this stuff is connected. how Jesus is connecting who we are as his followers, as the people listening to him in this Sermon on the Mount. um and And how the law has a role in our lives.

00:32:01.70
Kevin Shock
there's just There's just a lot going on here. um So greater righteousness is what I feel a call to. How to achieve that? I don't know if I know.

00:32:13.78
Kevin Shock
I think

00:32:14.86
Nathan Pile
Mm.

00:32:16.38
Kevin Shock
I think how to achieve that means um

00:32:21.45
Kevin Shock
seeking God in more

00:32:27.22
Kevin Shock
well, I want to say a tangible, I guess, tangible ways, um, taking time to have a conversation partner to, uh, consider what these words of Jesus mean for us now in our contemporary context.

00:32:46.97
Kevin Shock
Um, all of this stuff is yeah, uh, it ah

00:32:58.40
Kevin Shock
It's all there in the text somewhere. So I... Greater righteousness, as as you have said in this episode and have said before, righteousness is about living in right relationship with God and and other people. um So I think that, um, if

00:33:27.43
Kevin Shock
I'm trying, I'm just trying to think through some... ah yeah if, if the, There are times in scripture where the legal experts seem like they're more concerned with the law than they are concerned with the people who are living in it.

00:33:40.05
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:33:42.07
Kevin Shock
and And so I guess that's, that's one one way I think of this. There certainly are ways to live in relationship with people that don't always involve...

00:33:55.21
Kevin Shock
We're not called to condemn people. And I'm not saying that in a real milquetoast kind of way, like I can't condemn anyone. It's not about not calling out bad behavior, it's but, but we're called specifically to love people.

00:34:09.88
Kevin Shock
And I suspect that

00:34:17.27
Kevin Shock
helping to draw them into a greater relationship with Christ who is the fulfillment of the law is a good thing for us to do. um And the legal experts in the Gospels don't seem to do a great job of that because they're too concerned with making sure that every every stroke of the pen is upheld.

00:34:38.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:34:39.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:34:42.04
Kevin Shock
What about you, Nathan? what Toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:34:43.53
Nathan Pile
Well, two reflections that I appreciate ah from your sharing. One is I've talked about living in relationship with God, but I deeply appreciate you also reminding us.

00:34:57.02
Nathan Pile
that in my head, yes, I would include that, that, that includes living right with other people.

00:35:01.78
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

00:35:01.90
Nathan Pile
Um, but I think naming that can be powerful for us. And so I appreciate, cause I didn't, I haven't said that when I keep talking about right relationship, I keep talking about God, but God absolutely intends for us to live in right relationship with each other.

00:35:14.75
Nathan Pile
So thank you for that. Um, because I think that is a part of of living in right relationship with god is that we live in right relationship with one another um that's really what a lot of the law is about right is is us trying to live with our neighbor and our enemy um and so that's the first part of what you said now what's the second part that you said um that I thought was um was good um

00:35:46.58
Nathan Pile
I don't know what's going for me. um I hate my mind. ah the

00:35:55.64
Nathan Pile
and was on the same idea. Well, it's, it's that idea of living, right? It's that idea of of

00:36:04.92
Nathan Pile
take you know taking the law, right... taking right, the striving for right relationship and, and not making it about, um,

00:36:19.99
Nathan Pile
not physically writing God's word on our forehead, but making it a part of our mind, you know, ah you know, as ah as a part of some of the old Testament, um, you know, uh, stories and writings, and understand, you know, even the rabbis, um, what's, what's the rabbi writings called?

00:36:42.14
Nathan Pile
Why am I blanking on that right now?

00:36:43.06
Kevin Shock
The Midrash or the, yeah.

00:36:44.81
Nathan Pile
Midrash. Thank you. Um, you know, that, that you had priests that, that decorated themselves up and put God's word on their forehead as it, as it is, you know, scripture tells us to do well.

00:36:57.74
Nathan Pile
They decorated it and put it in, you know, right.

00:37:01.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah, the phylacteries, is that what we're...

00:37:03.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:04.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:05.21
Nathan Pile
and And so, but did it really, did it impact, you know, when we get if we use another story from scripture, did it impact the the religious leaders that walked by the Samaritan along the road?

00:37:17.94
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:37:18.33
Nathan Pile
Um, you know, if they were all dressed up and it said, you know, love your, love your neighbor as yourself. Uh, and you walked by the neighbor laying on the road because you couldn't get yourself, you couldn't be made dirty.

00:37:32.25
Nathan Pile
You wouldn't allow yourself to be unclean. Then you're not really living into it. So that idea of living in right relationship with, with God and with one another really becomes about living with people.

00:37:46.17
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:37:46.48
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:37:47.06
Nathan Pile
and, and making, making, making God's ways a part of our life together. And so, so I, at the core of all of this, those two themes, I think, are the understanding of right relationship with God and with others and figuring out how to live that out um in authentic and genuine ways

00:38:19.56
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:38:20.41
Nathan Pile
um that shows that shows the things that God values, love, compassion. that, that's the, that, those, ah, that, There you're living more clearly um

00:38:39.00
Nathan Pile
along the path of God, in the ways of God. And so... how do we How do we do that that? That last verse, I say to you, unless your righteousness is greater than the righteousness of legal experts and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

00:38:56.69
Nathan Pile
you know that That phrase tells me that the legal experts and Pharisees were way off in how they were trying to live out the righteousness of God, at least from Jesus's perspective.

00:39:08.53
Nathan Pile
Now, we're not there eye-witnessing what the Pharisees and legal experts are were doing.

00:39:09.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:39:13.42
Nathan Pile
All we have is is the gospel readings telling us what what was being seen. um

00:39:21.67
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:39:22.23
Nathan Pile
but I do, you know, I do think that we, we, as God's people today, also need to be careful of what what things do we say get in the way

00:39:34.78
Nathan Pile
of living, you know of of gets ah gets in between us and our neighbor, us and our enemies, us and God, because of, well, we think that this is so important. This small letter or this small pen stroke is so important.

00:39:58.23
Nathan Pile
about the law that it gets in our way of, of living with others. um

00:40:04.81
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:40:06.39
Nathan Pile
So yeah, so it's, yeah.

00:40:12.79
Nathan Pile
So like, my, my answer is wrapped up in all of that that I've just kind of talked about. It is about that living in right relationship. it's ah, It's about figuring out how do we, not how do we,

00:40:27.77
Nathan Pile
We've been gifted from God

00:40:36.09
Nathan Pile
these this idea of so of salt and light and trying to figure out what that means in a world today. something that doesn't, we've, We've been made to be something that doesn't stop being salty.

00:40:52.82
Nathan Pile
And we've been made to something that casts light into the darkest corners of a room.

00:40:53.14
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:40:57.88
Nathan Pile
um

00:40:57.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:41:00.15
Nathan Pile
um

00:41:03.96
Nathan Pile
how do we how how Living into those realities, just as who we are. you know it, it is, It is amazing to think that a single candle can light up a room.

00:41:18.01
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:41:18.14
Nathan Pile
And if it's in the right position in the room, it can reach many of the dark corners of that room.

00:41:24.24
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:41:25.24
Nathan Pile
you know it's It's why chandeliers became a thing. um right it was that They could light them and pull it up into the air. It would cast light over the whole room in the, in, in those dark evening hours. um and And of course, having just coming out of the, um, the Christmas season, we all gathered on Christmas Eve and are in a dark room and one candle gets lit and then the whole room has candles lit.

00:41:54.38
Nathan Pile
There's plenty of light in that space, um, because of those candles. So there's just physical representation of, of, of what we can do when we allow our light to shine.

00:42:07.32
Nathan Pile
So, um, so yeah, yeah I, I, I struggle with what we've talked about in the first section that, that, that, um, that word should, um, but allowing, but being who God has made us to be, as blessed and beloved as salt and light.

00:42:31.35
Nathan Pile
Um, if we're doing those things authentically and genuinely,

00:42:41.66
Nathan Pile
guided by the law, well then, we should easily tick the boxes of being greater than the legal experts and the Pharisees

00:42:56.12
Nathan Pile
kind of a thing so

00:42:56.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:01.10
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:43:05.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, this is this is a harder reading for me than I anticipated it being.

00:43:15.93
Kevin Shock
I think just because it's not it's not it's not simple. it's it's a It's Jesus' teaching. Just like the Beatitudes aren't simple. This is...

00:43:24.30
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:43:24.30
Kevin Shock
um

00:43:25.62
Nathan Pile
And it's very familiar to us. Both of them are familiar passages.

00:43:28.09
Kevin Shock
It's, yeah, right, right, right. It's familiar. So we oftentimes just skim right over it without considering, yeah, without considering what the implications of it are.

00:43:44.95
Kevin Shock
When we actually stop and pay attention to what Jesus is saying here, there's, There's lots more. I don't want to say that's open for interpretation, but that we have to we have to figure out.

00:44:02.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah. What's, what, what does he actually mean by this?

00:44:06.52
Nathan Pile
Sure. Well, and and if we just take it as these two paragraphs and and remove it from the rest of of chapter 12,

00:44:17.14
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

00:44:18.80
Nathan Pile
it becomes a little easier, right? You can just look at these words and, and not try to put it in its context. But I think part of the, the, the thing that is interesting to me about this, as you and I have discussed it, is that this well-known familiar passage that feels simple is very complex in actually trying to live it out, to make it a part of, of, of life together.

00:44:46.01
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:44:47.76
Nathan Pile
and you know And one of the things I've, I have a tendency to say here at camp is, you know we're called to love one another. It's all that easy and it's all that difficult.

00:45:01.46
Nathan Pile
Like it's much harder but if we're really going to say love God and love neighbor, love, love stranger, love enemy, if we're really going to say that and then try to live into it, it's a lot harder than just saying it because it means, it means putting others before ourselves at times.

00:45:18.36
Kevin Shock
Sure.

00:45:25.70
Nathan Pile
It means, um, going against what might be society's, um,

00:45:35.11
Nathan Pile
norms or expectations of of the time um yeah

00:45:50.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:45:50.32
Nathan Pile
so third time third time

00:45:53.50
Kevin Shock
Well, why don't we look at it a third time?

00:45:57.88
Kevin Shock
All right. From Matthew chapter 5.

00:46:04.18
Kevin Shock
Jesus said, You are the salt of the earth, but if salt loses its saltiness, how will it become salty again? It's good for nothing except to be thrown away and trampled under people's feet.

00:46:15.48
Kevin Shock
You are the light of the world. A city on top of a hill can't be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a basket. Instead, they put it on top of a lampstand, and it shines on all who are in the house.

00:46:27.64
Kevin Shock
In the same way, let your light shine before people so they can see the good things you do and praise your Father who is in heaven. Don't even begin to think that I have come to do away with the law and the prophets.

00:46:40.79
Kevin Shock
I haven't come to do away with them, but to fulfill them. I say to you very seriously that as long as heaven and earth exist, neither the smallest letter nor even the smallest stroke of a pen will be erased from the law until everything there becomes a reality.

00:46:57.15
Kevin Shock
Therefore, whoever ignores one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be called the lowest in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever keeps these commands and teaches people to keep them will be called the great in the kingdom of heaven.

00:47:11.16
Kevin Shock
I say to you that unless your righteousness is greater than the righteousness of the legal experts and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

00:47:23.94
Kevin Shock
Nathan, our third question is missing from, oh there. How do you let your light shine?

00:47:37.22
Kevin Shock
I want to change this question, I think.

00:47:39.62
Nathan Pile
Yeah, what are you going to change it to?

00:47:41.08
Kevin Shock
I don't know.

00:47:42.01
Nathan Pile
Oh, all right. I thought maybe you had ah another question.

00:47:42.81
Kevin Shock
I don't know. I know. There were just more as I read it a third time. There were more things I was thinking.

00:47:47.80
Nathan Pile
There's more things I wanted to talk about too.

00:47:50.07
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah.

00:47:50.23
Nathan Pile
That was true too for me. Because this time through I was like, oh, both the low, you're still you're either the lowest or you're the highest, the, the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, but you're still in the, you're still in the kingdom of heaven unless you're the legal experts for the Pharisees.

00:47:52.54
Kevin Shock
Well, you can.

00:48:01.87
Kevin Shock
You're still in the. Yeah, right. Mm hmm.

00:48:06.06
Nathan Pile
So as long as you're not... is not As long as you're not taking God's word and beating it upon other people, um you might be might be good to go. You might be in the kingdom of heaven.

00:48:20.76
Nathan Pile
Now, if you care about your placement in the kingdom of heaven, then you need to you need to work on how you're how you're living in the right relationship.

00:48:20.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah. ah

00:48:30.02
Nathan Pile
but But if your goal is just to be in just...

00:48:30.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:48:34.33
Nathan Pile
don't take God's word and beat others with it, I think is,

00:48:39.35
Kevin Shock
ah yeah I'm not, I'm not Yeah, I'm not sure we're meant to understand this reading. this reading um

00:48:47.26
Nathan Pile
and yet we read it often, right? Like this is a, this is a, you know, this section of Matthew of chapter five um is you know, one through 11 through 12 and, and 13 through 20 gets read, you know, at least once every three years, but sometimes, but these passages, I also, sections of these passages get read other times of the year.

00:49:18.81
Nathan Pile
This isn't the only time we read about salt and light. um

00:49:22.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:24.47
Nathan Pile
So yeah.

00:49:29.24
Kevin Shock
Yep. Um,

00:49:30.30
Nathan Pile
so So how I, going back to your, since you don't have another question for me that I could answer, how do you let your light shine?

00:49:42.10
Nathan Pile
I, I, I think my answer is that I, I try to be salt. Yeah.

00:49:51.00
Nathan Pile
in the midst of, of my life and what that looks like, not being it because I should, but being it because that's God, who God has made me to be.

00:50:01.14
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:50:01.39
Nathan Pile
And so being able to, to live,

00:50:15.45
Nathan Pile
you know, I know I don't live perfectly I'm, I'm, I'm in, I'm, I'm in with Martin Luther, I, there's no way I can perfectly live as a child of God, like I'm gonna, there's, I'm still gonna do selfish things, I'm gonna do things for Nathan's best interest over other people's best interest not all the time but at times absolutely

00:50:40.71
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:50:41.94
Nathan Pile
Um, because again, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a selfish human. Uh, I want my way. I want, um,

00:50:51.74
Nathan Pile
I think my opinion is the right opinion. And so I live in those directions at times and, and maybe I should listen, you know, could be any number of of countless things.

00:51:07.69
Nathan Pile
You know, maybe I don't listen to my staff well enough because I think I have the right answer for the solution to move forward for some problem that we have here at camp.

00:51:14.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:51:17.24
Nathan Pile
um maybe it's my daughter and I want something specific for her but she, I'm not listening well enough to her um or you know you know or my spouse or a friend or you know any of those kinds of things there's there's absolutely times when when I am going to fail miserably at living in right relationship with god or with others um because I want what I want. And at that moment in time, I can't seem to get past my own selfishness.

00:51:54.84
Nathan Pile
So when I say, how do I let my light shine or how do I, how do I be salty?

00:52:02.97
Nathan Pile
I think it's recognizing that I'm going to fall short in that relationship. um and And when I am able to see it, to name it,

00:52:15.61
Nathan Pile
and um and seek reconciliation with whoever that is that I need to seek reconciliation with, whether it's my neighbor or my enemy or God, um, that I do that and maybe it's, maybe it's one minute after I say it or maybe it's 20 years after I've said or done whatever it is that I'm able to see my sin my own sinfulness my own brokenness in that moment um

00:52:30.13
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:52:45.88
Nathan Pile
and, and can, can then seek reconciliation and, and to live more closely into a right relationship um

00:52:57.53
Nathan Pile
but I think the, the, the part of that second part of this reading is that I do feel like I, I just need to make sure that I'm living, I'm living as salt and light um in in my own genuine, authentic way um

00:53:19.86
Nathan Pile
that, that that walks in the way of, you know walks in the way of of the Christ.

00:53:27.22
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:53:28.44
Nathan Pile
but But that is, that that I have found a way to make God's ways my ways. um I'm not God. I'm never going to be God. I'm, But how do I make right living with God and others a part of, of every breath that I take and every at every step that I take.

00:53:55.77
Nathan Pile
I think that's the piece. That's how I let light shine. um All of the little moments, like the this reading, the, the, the, the, every small stroke and every small letter makes me feel like the living happens in the details of life.

00:54:17.59
Nathan Pile
All of the little things, all of the, like it like, yes, it happens in the big things, but it also happens in all of the little ways that I'm in relationship with with God and others.

00:54:18.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:27.99
Nathan Pile
And so how do I make this idea of being salt, being made salt, How do I let that permeate in every aspect of life?

00:54:39.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:39.48
Nathan Pile
I think is my best way of, of answering this question.

00:54:39.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:45.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, there you go. um I think that that's the, I think that's the answer to the question for me is that this, this teaching, struggling with the teaching, all the teachings of the law,

00:55:00.28
Kevin Shock
um those are all things that I have to let permeate every aspect of my life or else I might as well, I'm, I'm good for nothing and might as well be thrown away.

00:55:09.45
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:55:16.22
Kevin Shock
Um, that,

00:55:22.65
Kevin Shock
yeah, how that works for each individual is, um, somewhat between the individual and God, but also, also maybe between the individual and the other people who are living alongside the individual, uh, when it in Christian community, um,

00:55:44.22
Kevin Shock
There may be, you know, I mean, part of my own discernment story is people telling me I, this is, this is perhaps the way you're called to be salt and light in the world.

00:55:55.58
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:55:56.28
Kevin Shock
Um, now I understand that that's not always the case for everybody, but it might be, you know, you have to listen to what people are saying to, um,

00:56:10.26
Kevin Shock
uh,

00:56:14.20
Kevin Shock
What, now I lost my train of thought, you have to listen to what people are saying that you when they're talking to you about the, the gifts that they had, the gifts that you have, or maybe the responsibilities that they see you as being the person who upholds those responsibilities.

00:56:34.04
Kevin Shock
ah That, that might be a way of them saying be salt and light in the world.

00:56:42.01
Kevin Shock
Um, it, you know, there, I just think there are a lot of ways to say that. So someone, you know, someone says to you, Hey, I think, I think you're the person to do this or, or even it's, it's good that you, um, continue to engage in this thing that you do.

00:57:00.22
Kevin Shock
Um, that might be, that might be God's way of saying to you, keep being salt and light in the world. Uh, but God saying it through somebody else.

00:57:12.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I think that, um, I don't always do it well. Um, but I know that I, I know that I do it well whenever I have conversation with people who are not a part of the church and they tell me that they feel like they can talk to me about spiritual things.

00:57:36.82
Nathan Pile
um

00:57:37.75
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:57:41.24
Kevin Shock
I think that, yeah, yeah, yeah. There there are people that I think in, in a lot of the world, they would say, well, I don't know. I don't know. I'm still figuring out what this new call for me is supposed to mean.

00:57:56.63
Kevin Shock
So that is part of it too. But um it it's not lost on me that I'm called to be a bishop of the church. um But I have...

00:58:09.66
Kevin Shock
old friends who text me and say, hey, you know, I haven't been a part of the church in a long, long time. And, or, you know, that I, my struggles with the church, um, but I'd like to talk to you about something, but I must be doing something right. If someone's giving me that phone call or sending me that text message.

00:58:28.95
Kevin Shock
And I think that that's, I think that's how not just bishops of the church or pastors of the church. I think that's how all the people of the church are called to be. to be open to hear what the people who are on the margins have to say.

00:58:37.65
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:58:42.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, I think I, as you share that to me, that's a great example of authentic and genuine, right?

00:58:50.72
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:58:50.90
Nathan Pile
Living authentic, genuine lives.

00:58:52.86
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:58:54.04
Nathan Pile
and And maybe the other word has, to maybe it's Christian, maybe it's disciple, authentic, genuine disciples, discipleship.

00:59:01.47
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:59:02.17
Nathan Pile
Something that that mirrors

00:59:09.02
Nathan Pile
Jesus in the world.

00:59:10.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:15.29
Nathan Pile
um yeah, well, I think you've wrapped that up nicely for me I don't there's there's lots of stuff there that it continues to be, I think, rich for us to to wrestle with uh around this um

00:59:31.64
Nathan Pile
a i think it's a it continues to be a beautiful text to me in yet at the same time and and and and a familiar text but at the same time, I, I think there's so much here that could be wrestled with um in in how we live this forward and, and I think it speaks in a time where the church is shifting where god is changing and altering the church, I think there's language there's there's things here for us to wrestle with that can help form us as god's people

00:59:46.10
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:00:07.56
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

01:00:08.76
Nathan Pile
moving forward

01:00:14.10
Nathan Pile
uh anything else you got there for us buddy um ah additional texts um this week if you would like to continue to kind of dig in around the these themes um Isaiah chapter 58 verses 1 through 12 um the fast god chooses

01:00:16.12
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. No. Why don't we... Oh yeah, that's you.

01:00:39.11
Nathan Pile
wonder what that means, Kevin. is there Was there more to that phrase than the fast God chooses?

01:00:44.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's right. It's, uh, it's in Isaiah, we've, we've tackled this text a couple of times. I feel like, um, whenever God is talking about, know, your fasts mean nothing to me, uh, cause you don't, cause you aren't salt and light in the rest of you, in the rest of your daily living.

01:00:52.56
Nathan Pile
Okay.

01:00:57.14
Nathan Pile
Oh.

01:01:02.20
Nathan Pile
Overlife. Right.

01:01:03.04
Kevin Shock
Uh, you know, um, right, right.

01:01:04.07
Nathan Pile
you've you've taken it You've done the fast, but it hasn't... it hasn't

01:01:08.05
Kevin Shock
The fast, like the, the,

01:01:08.37
Nathan Pile
helps you become more disciplined or more.

01:01:12.31
Kevin Shock
it doesn't have implications in your everyday life. The fast that God chooses is to, and I don't, I don't remember exactly what it says, I don't have it in front of me, but the fast God chooses is for people to um live out the law in everyday.

01:01:15.77
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

01:01:24.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. That's how that's much more helpful. I was thinking God racing around the, you know, and I was like, why is God fast?

01:01:29.40
Kevin Shock
No, no, no, this is fasting. The spiritual practice of fasting.

01:01:32.93
Nathan Pile
Fasting. There we go. The spiritual fact that makes much more sense. i was like, why is God racing? um Psalm 112 verses 1 through 10, light shines in the darkness from for the upright.

01:01:46.65
Nathan Pile
And 1 Corinthians chapter 2 verses 1 through 16, God's wisdom revealed through the Spirit. As always, Kevin, thank you for your reflections. um And we hope those of you listening that you might even share with us some of your thoughts as Kevin and I struggled with this passage today. And, and if there was something as we talked or something as you read that kind of sparks your thoughts.

01:02:17.53
Nathan Pile
imagination or inspiration that you'd be willing to share with us. That'd be great to know. So please feel free to share that either on email or social media. We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:02:30.84
Kevin Shock
And peace.