S4 Episode 15: Psalm 32

Translation: Alter

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What role does sin play in your distress?

Additional texts:

Genesis 2:15-17; 3:1-7

Romans 5:12-19

Matthew 4:1-11

Transcript

00:01.62
Kevin Shock
Oh, I just got, I just got sneezed on by a dog. What a way to start our, our time together.

00:06.59
Nathan Pile
Woo-hoo!

00:11.19
Kevin Shock
It's amazing to me that um no matter how much space they have in the house ah or how little space they have where I am they just have to be next to dad, whether they're wrestling or squeaking toys or sneezing or whatever they're doing.

00:27.35
Nathan Pile
Well, that builds off of last, last week's thing about relationship building.

00:27.42
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:31.11
Nathan Pile
They want to be close.

00:31.54
Kevin Shock
it, It does. It does.

00:32.60
Nathan Pile
They want to be close, Kevin.

00:32.86
Kevin Shock
They're definitely, yes, they, they definitely feel connected their, their human father.

00:38.07
Nathan Pile
whether or not the human father wants to be connected to them.

00:38.23
Kevin Shock
um but, but

00:42.32
Kevin Shock
That's right. That's right. Right now I want to be connected to scripture and to Nathan and to all of you who are listening to this as well. um We are going to spend some time looking at ah a psalm passage this week, Psalm 32. The translation we're using is ah Robert Alter's translation, which we use this every once in a while.

01:05.02
Kevin Shock
Um, but it's a translation that ah is not available on BibleGateway.com. It's not available anywhere online. It's only available in print. So i encourage you for this episode to get whatever your favorite um translation is and grab that, follow along, or simply listen as Nathan and I talk about, read, and discuss Psalm 32.

01:35.51
Kevin Shock
Our three questions for, for today. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And what role does sin play in your distress?

01:55.70
Nathan Pile
Some information about your hosts. We're men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

02:08.82
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

02:22.13
Nathan Pile
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as well. Now, Kevin, before we launch into this, I do see that in Alter's translation, he has put the Selah in here.

02:42.20
Nathan Pile
um

02:43.67
Kevin Shock
Yes, indeed. There are. Yes. And well, he didn't, he didn't put it in.

02:47.58
Nathan Pile
he didn't, He didn't put it in, he, he has included what was with the original text.

02:48.11
Kevin Shock
It's part of this.

02:54.65
Kevin Shock
Yep.

02:54.74
Nathan Pile
um And my, um I have ah, I have a one sentence explanation of Selah, but do you have a better explanation than it is a time of pause?

03:09.94
Kevin Shock
That's, that's the best that I've heard.

03:12.55
Nathan Pile
Okay. And so I will, um as I read through it this first time through, I will try to, do you have any idea how long the the, it's supposed to be, the pause is supposed to be?

03:24.82
Kevin Shock
I have no idea. I think a brief pause would be fine.

03:26.04
Nathan Pile
Yeah, so a brief pause is fine. um

03:29.37
Kevin Shock
It's...

03:29.85
Nathan Pile
So here's the thing, folks. um It's interesting that we have this the text of these psalms, but there are still things that we don't know about them.

03:40.30
Nathan Pile
One of which is also for this psalm particularly is that this is a mass kill um psalm.

03:48.30
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

03:49.08
Nathan Pile
And we think that, the what not not Kevin and I, we the royal we, academia, people who study this stuff, think that this is a kind of song that was sung and that may even be considered a joyous song because there is a quote from this in Amos.

04:10.91
Nathan Pile
Amos uses a part of this text, in its text in chapter five. And so the thought is that this is a joyous song. So I will try to read it joyously.

04:21.69
Nathan Pile
But they're, they're, they're, I say all of that to say we we don't fully know what the song sounded like or what it is, even though we have the words of the psalm and we have this space where we are, the, the writer wants us to give a place of pause in the reading of it.

04:44.12
Nathan Pile
We still don't fully understand or have the the like our our current interpretation might be wrong and at some point in time need to be changed if we were ever to find the clue book, the master clue book that has been hidden from us for the last 2000 years.

05:05.74
Nathan Pile
So no, but, but it's just to say we there's still things that we have from the ancient texts that we don't fully know their meaning.

05:15.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

05:15.89
Nathan Pile
so So Psalm 32, did you have something else you wanna add?

05:17.79
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Great. Thanks. Nope. Nope. That's good. Thank you.

05:22.33
Nathan Pile
from your from your rocking half seat. I did get pictures this afternoon, every everyone, of of his chair and I'm a little jealous, not gonna lie.

05:27.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's pretty great, isn't it?

05:33.66
Nathan Pile
um looks

05:35.03
Kevin Shock
Oh, that's great. That's good to know.

05:36.02
Nathan Pile
It looks pretty cool, looks pretty cool. So Psalm 32.

05:45.21
Nathan Pile
Happy of sin forgiven, absolved offense, Happy the man to whom the Lord reckons no crime and whose spirit is no deceit. When I was silent, my limbs were worn out.

05:59.19
Nathan Pile
When I roared all day long for day and night, your hand was heavy upon me. My sap turned to summer dust. My offense I made known to you and my crime I did not cover.

06:15.35
Nathan Pile
I said, I shall confess my sins to the Lord. and you forgave my offending crime.

06:29.34
Nathan Pile
For every faithful man praised to you in a time of need, only that the rush of mighty waters should not reach him. You are a shelter for me.

06:41.91
Nathan Pile
From the foe you keep me. With glad songs of deliverance surround me.

06:53.34
Nathan Pile
Let me teach you, instruct you the way you should go. Let me console, counsel you with my own sight.

07:05.08
Nathan Pile
Be not like a horse, like a mule without sense. The bit and the reins his adornment to keep him from drawing near you.

07:16.92
Nathan Pile
Many are the wicked's pains But who trusts in the Lord? Kindness surrounds him. Rejoice in the Lord and exalt. Oh, you righteous.

07:29.11
Nathan Pile
Sing loud gladly, all upright men.

07:38.81
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Kevin Answers our first question of the week. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

07:52.88
Kevin Shock
Nathan, it's the Selah. um

07:56.06
Nathan Pile
I missed the first one, everyone.

07:57.24
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, you did.

07:57.34
Nathan Pile
I missed it. completely missed it.

07:59.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

07:59.90
Nathan Pile
Blew right through it. So you didn't even know it was there.

08:00.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah. But that's ah but that's okay. I um, I, I don't think that a lot of times when we read this in, when people read this in church, they say Selah because it's in the text.

08:16.84
Nathan Pile
No.

08:17.37
Kevin Shock
um but, but if, if we knew the meaning of it, we would translate it into English, so we don't. um ah But you both you, I also don't think that I've ever observed Selah when I read it publicly, like I don't pause necessarily, but hearing you pause, and also that coupled with the...

08:44.70
Kevin Shock
With the, the fact that Alter translates this such that the grammar makes more sense in Hebrew than it does in English.

08:55.02
Nathan Pile
Mm

08:55.22
Kevin Shock
I mean, he he really tries like a um ah like it like a a direct translation, I, you know, so that we understand the sense of it in English, but it doesn't make, like grammatically, it doesn't necessarily make sense. Yeah.

09:13.14
Kevin Shock
And so, like, not only did you observe the pauses, but also you me, anybody has to read it somewhat slowly because it's not our regular cadence and syntax of speech.

09:14.05
Nathan Pile
hmm.

09:31.64
Kevin Shock
um

09:31.76
Nathan Pile
Right.

09:32.57
Kevin Shock
I mean, the you know, the first line, ah happy of sin forgiven, absolved of offense that like that doesn't make, that's, we understand what, what the author is saying but that's not how we would say it in english and um and the thing that I appreciate about that I was thinking as you're reading I was thinking wow did the Hebrew people really have to sit and think about what these psalms actually meant as they were singing them praying them speaking them together and I think probably not to the extent that we do because again

09:44.64
Nathan Pile
Right.

09:47.62
Nathan Pile
Right. Absolutely not. Right.

10:07.86
Kevin Shock
This is grammar that would make sense to them. but um But I think it certainly can be utilized as a tool for us as we listen to this translation that yeah we really have to stop and think about what exactly the text is saying.

10:27.03
Kevin Shock
um it, it, it comes across in this translation for me and we had a conversation about this a few weeks ago in one of our episodes uh in reference to Isaiah, it comes across to me as poetry and I think poetry is something that when you hear it more attention to it because it doesn't always follow the rules of syntax uh it, you're, yeah, you'd

10:48.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

10:52.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah, no, I love that piece of it that it when we think about it as as poetry, because I would agree with you, when I read a poem, I have to work a little harder than if I'm just reading narrative prose, you know or or a newspaper article or something like that.

11:07.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

11:09.00
Nathan Pile
like You're just reading it for what it is.

11:09.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah, you can't skim it.

11:11.32
Nathan Pile
um Poetry, yeah, no right. right like You have to be fully engaged with a poem, I think, to to really be able to to pull out what the author was is is saying, attempting to say, so forth.

11:21.18
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

11:29.05
Nathan Pile
um And so I love that you've used that image, that that piece here with this, because you're right, reading it, you're kind of like, what the heck are we, what are we talking about here?

11:39.58
Nathan Pile
um

11:39.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

11:41.37
Nathan Pile
As a part of that. So, um so I, I thank you for all of that reflection, because it even helped me a little bit in um

11:55.98
Nathan Pile
you're the one that introduced me to alter. And so being able to to hear that that he does want to try and match it to the the Hebrew um as as closely as he can, because it is hard, it is harder reading than would be normal for us by the syntax differences.

12:16.83
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

12:18.88
Nathan Pile
But again, it's something that I, I appreciate. the image Because of these phrases, they bring group interesting images to me. And so that third, what would be roughly the third verse here, end of the second verse, when, when I was silent, my limbs were worn out.

12:39.61
Nathan Pile
um Just that, as I read that phrase, I, my, my own head kind of just spun a little bit of, um So is it because I'm silent that my limbs are worn out or is it because my limbs are worn out, I'm silent?

12:55.76
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

13:01.30
Nathan Pile
And, and I went with the second one more than the first one. And so it was that idea of being so exhausted um

13:13.27
Nathan Pile
from from being, you know and and the the second part of that says when I roared all day long. So that idea of being again, so ferocious all day long that I'm physically worn out, that my limbs just feel exhausted.

13:32.52
Nathan Pile
And, and there are definitely days, probably more so in preparation of camp, but sometimes I guess if there's

13:33.43
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

13:41.11
Nathan Pile
like a major cleanup project in the fall, we've had a problem or something like a tree has gone down or a couple of trees have gone down. Like there's days that I can remember sitting down in, in my lazy boy at the end of the day and like everything just kind of tingles and, and exhausted, you know, that was, that's what this felt like to me as I read it was that idea of, of,

14:06.28
Nathan Pile
roaring all day long. I can't ever think of a, like, sure. I'm loud. You know, my camp, I think so I can be loud and, um, boisterous and so forth, uh, you know, as I'm doing that. But I've, when I think about roaring all day long, I think about like just my whole body working hard.

14:25.37
Nathan Pile
Um, and so it's something like cleaning up a bunch of downed trees or, um, even feel it at wintertime when you're moving heavy snow. um Kind of a thing when you've had an all day, you've been out all day long and your body's just exhausted. So that, that was what, that was the image that kind of struck me was that I'm, I'm forced to be silent because I'm exhausted.

14:54.33
Nathan Pile
Like, I, I don't, I don't want to engage.

14:55.39
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

14:56.33
Nathan Pile
I just want to sit here in my lazy boy and, and, and, and feel kind of numb and worn out.

15:04.96
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

15:06.39
Nathan Pile
Because that can be a good feeling too, right? When you've when it has been a good day of work.

15:13.66
Nathan Pile
And I typically have it more so with physical labor than I do the staring at my computer screen and writing letters or writing, putting together Bible studies or any, not that that's bad work. It's just, I don't feel, i don't have that same exhausted, worn out feeling as I would with the physical labor outside.

15:35.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

15:36.28
Nathan Pile
so

15:37.21
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, and then there's and then there's emotional labor as well.

15:42.68
Nathan Pile
well, sure. Yeah.

15:45.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's a, which feels different again. Yeah.

15:50.08
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think of my limbs as being worn out for those things.

15:55.32
Kevin Shock
No, that's, that's an interesting word there, limbs. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

15:58.49
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

16:00.08
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

16:01.16
Nathan Pile
Yeah. So.

16:04.82
Nathan Pile
All right. You want to do this a second time?

16:07.81
Kevin Shock
Let's.

16:12.74
Kevin Shock
Psalm 32. This is a David mass kill. Happy of sin forgiven, absolved of offense. Happy the man to whom the Lord reckons no crime and whose spirit is no deceit.

16:27.22
Kevin Shock
When I was silent, my limbs were worn out. When I roared all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy upon me, my sap turned to summer dust.

16:42.01
Kevin Shock
My offense I made known to you, and my crime I did not cover. I said, I shall confess my sins to the Lord, and you forgave me my offending crime.

16:56.86
Kevin Shock
For this every faithful man prays to you in time of need, only that the rush of mighty waters should not reach him. You are a shelter for me. From the foe you keep me, with glad songs of deliverance surround me.

17:18.01
Kevin Shock
Let me teach you, instruct you the way you should go. Let me counsel you with my own sight. Be not like a horse, like a mule without sense, the bit in the reins his adornment, to keep him from drawing near you.

17:32.66
Kevin Shock
Many are the wicked's pains, but who trusts in the Lord, kindness surrounds him. Rejoice in the Lord and exult, O you righteous. Sing gladly, all upright men.

17:46.87
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

17:50.68
Nathan Pile
um I think as I listened here, out of out of God's deliverance, joy is, is my response.

18:10.17
Nathan Pile
And so that would be kind of the way I would, I would articulate it too, I think, here today. Because of because of those happy, the, the starting of those couple of first verses with that word happy and this idea at the end of sharing glory. Um, but it's, but, but, but it's because of God's action, God's mercy that I have these feelings.

18:38.36
Nathan Pile
I have this joy because of God's, uh, God's intervention, um in the world, in my life. And, and, and it's, and I use, I specifically pick the words mercy and deliverance. Deliverance, I think is in the text.

18:58.81
Nathan Pile
But, but for me, it's this idea of mercy, God acting, probably when I don't deserve it, but God acting. um And because of that,

19:11.18
Nathan Pile
I've been freed to, to be, to be in joy. Um, I've been, I've been given the gift of joy because of that deliverance, that, that gift of mercy from God, um, makes it so that, um, that I can be joyous.

19:14.96
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

19:27.17
Nathan Pile
And, and, um,

19:34.65
Nathan Pile
and we can kind of go from like, well, that, that's, that's just, um, I feel, I feel called to go, I feel called to joy, to, to be, to be recognizing

19:49.66
Nathan Pile
what God has done.

19:55.80
Nathan Pile
But my response is joy and that I've and how I, how I live that out, how I use that in exaltation. You know, again, it's... If you're talking about worship, it's, it's about praise. It's about singing songs.

20:14.97
Nathan Pile
But again, because I'm, I guess I'm stuck in a psalm, I think about that idea of music being connected with this. But I don't think it has to be music. um my response My response of authentic, genuine joy is enough.

20:36.30
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

20:39.51
Nathan Pile
So, yeah, I think that would be my, my, I, I feel called towards joy, but because of God's action in that, God's deliverance for me, um who struggles to live in right relationship. And so when we're talking about deliverance and mercy here, it's talking about my inability to live into right relationship, but God's ability to make through mercy and deliverance, God's ability to, to still make great relationship happen.

21:21.56
Nathan Pile
And because of that joy.

21:27.48
Kevin Shock
new

21:32.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it makes me wonder how joy is musical, even if, even if literal music isn't being involved in the expression of joy.

21:43.61
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah well because, because ah again reading this that there's places um like because I was wondering why am I thinking about song so much but there are places in this that, that lead you in that direction there's a place of

21:44.95
Kevin Shock
But, yeah.

22:00.47
Nathan Pile
of glad song, um, or glad songs of deliverance around you.

22:02.20
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

22:05.91
Nathan Pile
Um, and that's probably where the song piece sticks into the deliverance piece for me. Um,

22:16.34
Nathan Pile
but then that rejoice at the end of the whole song also kind of, um, I, I oftentimes I don't, you know, maybe it's cultural, maybe it's Um,

22:31.41
Nathan Pile
it's hard for me to think about rejoicing or responding to God, um to God's glory without it being some kind of music.

22:44.41
Nathan Pile
But that could just be me, a Lutheran Christian and a kid that likes to sing, kid a kid that likes to sing.

22:44.42
Kevin Shock
I see. I

22:48.47
Kevin Shock
think it could be. Yeah.

22:51.27
Nathan Pile
so, So how about you, my friend, toward what is God calling you in this, in this passage?

22:58.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah. The thing that ah grabbed me this time through ah is that, you know, a lot of times in the Psalms we hear something similar to what we do hear in verse 7 here. Yeah.

23:11.10
Kevin Shock
ah

23:14.52
Kevin Shock
you are a shelter for me from the foe you keep me. um and And I think it's easy to hear those verses and think,

23:27.93
Kevin Shock
but you know, the that the that the problem is external.

23:32.56
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

23:33.59
Kevin Shock
um But when you look at that verse, there's only that one half verse in this psalm, um that ah that talks about the external issues, and those are taken care of.

23:47.74
Kevin Shock
Like, God, God is protecting you from the external problems. the, The real problems that show up are the internal ones, or the the ones that are self-made.

23:56.97
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

24:00.34
Kevin Shock
um You know, that day and night your hand was heavy upon me, but I, but I even think of that... I even think of that... terminology as like, or that image as a protective image.

24:18.62
Kevin Shock
Your your hand was heavy upon me. not um, Not trying to punish, but the image that that evokes for me is that the, this is, you know, the psalmist here is talking about the heavy hand of God whenever the psalmist was trying to do things in his or her own way or their own way.

24:37.20
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

24:39.51
Kevin Shock
um And so I get this image of God's protective hand feeling heavy because the whole time the psalmist is trying to wriggle out from underneath it.

24:51.26
Kevin Shock
and and And that's the thing that saps up all the energy, that that turns the the sap into summer dust, um is that the the psalmist is is too frenetically trying to go their own way rather than um, rather than going God's way.

25:12.50
Kevin Shock
And so I think that's all background to say what I'm, what I'm called toward in this text is to, um, to lean into God's way, to get out of my own way. Um, and to let this, this life of joy and kindness and, uh, and, um, abundance be with me.

25:39.24
Kevin Shock
Um, It seems this psalm really makes me feel like. um

25:52.24
Kevin Shock
Oh, well, I lost my train of thought. This psalm makes me, because I then, something else popped into my head. um What was I saying? This psalm makes me feel like ah this is this is the life that God has prepared for the people, the life that God gives to the people, but we we only don't experience it whenever we're trying to experience something else.

26:18.97
Kevin Shock
Like when we shut ourselves off from it. Yeah.

26:21.14
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

26:23.61
Kevin Shock
And the other thing that popped into my head is that the the one verse 7 is rendered here, um you you are a shelter for me, um but much more famously in other translations, and because there was a Holocaust survivor who wrote a book, I think that was titled it, is a, is, it's oftentimes heard as you are my hiding place.

26:49.97
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

26:50.65
Kevin Shock
And... And I think that that um

26:57.85
Kevin Shock
that gives a counter image to the image of trying to wriggle out from underneath God's heavy hand to God's heavy hand is where I want to curl up and be safe. um

27:10.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

27:15.19
Kevin Shock
Shelter is probably a more accurate rendering of it, but nevertheless.

27:16.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

27:25.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um leaning into God's way and getting out of my own way are things that I feel called to And some and some of that, you know, this is for Sunday and Lent.

27:36.06
Kevin Shock
A lot of that comes for us with. We mentioned it in our Ash Wednesday. our Ash Wednesday episode, daily repentance and forgiveness.

27:50.99
Kevin Shock
That's, that's one, one easy way. Well, not, not that repentance is easy, but one simple way to get out of our own way and lean into God's way.

28:03.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah. In this translation, Kevin, that verse six is in brackets. do you have any idea why?

28:14.17
Kevin Shock
I don't. I looked at that earlier today. um Although it does say here, it would be misleading to set this verse as poetry because it does not scan and has no true parallelism.

28:28.75
Kevin Shock
Parallelism. One suspects a sentence from another text was introduced through scribal inadvertence. Boy, Robert Alter really knows how to write...

28:40.28
Kevin Shock
big sentences, doesn't he? He uses, uses this big language. the, The brackets indicate that this verse is not part of the poem.

28:44.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

28:49.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I mean, I understand that. this is, this is it, It does seem like ah it, it seems almost, for this every faithful man prays to you in time of need, only that the rush of mighty water should not reach him.

28:52.60
Nathan Pile
That part of it, yeah.

29:02.52
Kevin Shock
um that um To me, that almost seems, and maybe the brackets help seem make it seem that way, like an editorial comment.

29:10.10
Nathan Pile
Right. Well, because that's like, as I was looking at like, boy, it really does feel like somebody's trying to say something in between verses of the song.

29:18.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right. Yeah.

29:19.03
Nathan Pile
um

29:19.70
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yep.

29:20.79
Nathan Pile
And so I see now, now I understand also the notation pieces because I was like, why does it, but yeah, six is, is that.

29:35.44
Nathan Pile
So, all right.

29:43.17
Nathan Pile
So, anything else for you for a second time through?

29:47.58
Kevin Shock
No, I don't, I don't think so. for that No, not for that second time.

29:53.55
Nathan Pile
All right, let's do it a third time.

29:55.48
Kevin Shock
All right.

30:01.33
Nathan Pile
Happy of sin forgiven, absolved of offense. Happy, the man to whom the Lord reckons no crime, in whose spirit is no deceit. When I was silent, my limbs were worn out.

30:14.81
Nathan Pile
When I roared all day long, for day and night, your hand was heavy upon me. My sap turned to summer dust. My offense I made known to you,

30:30.42
Nathan Pile
and my crime I did not cover. I said, I shall confess my sins to the Lord, and you forgave my offending crime.

30:49.34
Nathan Pile
You are a shelter for me, from the foe you keep me. With glad songs of deliverance surround me.

31:05.88
Nathan Pile
Let me teach you, instruct you the way you should go. Let me counsel you with my own sight. Be not like a horse, like a mule, without sense, the bit and the reins his adornment, to keep him from drawing near you.

31:28.31
Nathan Pile
Many are the wicked's pains, but who trusts in the Lord's in the lord kindness surrounds him. Rejoice in the Lord and exalt, O you righteous.

31:41.24
Nathan Pile
Sing gladly, all upright men.

31:48.12
Nathan Pile
what role does sin play in your distress Kevin?

31:55.16
Kevin Shock
As I read the psalm, I think that sin is at the root of my distress. um and I, And I think about, I use the word sin there because that verse right at the beginning, happy of sin forgiven, absolved of offense.

32:01.10
Nathan Pile
hmm

32:10.81
Kevin Shock
um I, I'm thinking back to, I preached recently on a text from the gospel according to John,

32:22.23
Kevin Shock
um oh it was the it was john the baptist here here is the lamb of god who takes away the sin of the world and and the way that the sermon came together ah I felt it necessary to talk about sin as defined by john's gospel and that is that sin is um Sin's not the little things that we do or don't do throughout the day that get us in trouble with God. Sin is disconnection from God.

32:51.22
Kevin Shock
Sin is separation from God. and um And so I, if, if we consider sin in that, according to that definition, that's the root cause of my distress.

33:04.98
Kevin Shock
if If I am doing something or if, if something is being done to me that causes separation from God, which again, like I said in the answer the last question, I think is the, the more rare situation, um then ah then I'm going to feel distress.

33:24.98
Kevin Shock
More so if I... um if I'm doing something that causes my separation from God, disconnectedness from God's human family, ah that's going to cause my distress.

33:43.13
Kevin Shock
but Yeah. um yeah um Yeah, distress can be caused by external circumstances for sure. But I think mostly that's like...

33:55.38
Kevin Shock
that's that kind of distress instinctual reaction to something stressful that's happening um but I think ongoing distress is caused by I don't have, like, my relationships aren't in order, I don't have people supporting me maybe because I've distanced myself myself um yeah the that yeah and that's that to me is

34:18.70
Kevin Shock
That's where we really talk about distress. Like it's much, it's much easier to go through a stressful situation. If you feel like you have a community that's working together or people that are surrounding you or, or, or you in in those people, you see the the heavy and and compassionate hand of God.

34:40.12
Kevin Shock
um Yeah. So I, I think that sin is a, is the root cause of my distress for sure.

34:58.53
Nathan Pile
Like, as I,

35:04.12
Nathan Pile
I wrestle with this question a little bit here, I think when ah we, before we, we, obviously, you know, this happens frequently. When I read the question before we started and read the passage and, and did our sharing.

35:20.87
Nathan Pile
It's a different question to me now. And, and your response, I think, no, it's not, not a bad thing.

35:24.63
Kevin Shock
Okay.

35:26.75
Nathan Pile
It was yeah, right.

35:27.19
Kevin Shock
No, no, I think it should be that way a lot of times. Yeah.

35:29.72
Nathan Pile
Well, sure, sure. I would think so too. Hopefully if, if scripture's doing, helping us do the thing that scripture's been given to us to do. Right. Yeah.

35:38.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

35:47.80
Nathan Pile
but I think again, I, I'm, I'm with you. I'm not, I'm not out, out, outside the ballpark here with you or outside. Like I'm with you with, like, I think we're in the same ballpark, um, in that, that it's that, that my, my sin, my turning my back on God is, is often the thing and turning my back on my neighbor.

36:13.67
Nathan Pile
Um, um,

36:17.94
Nathan Pile
is the source of my distress. More, more, maybe more so than I would want to admit.

36:29.69
Nathan Pile
Excuse me. um But definitely, if I'm, if I'm really taking the opportunity to think about what,

36:46.94
Nathan Pile
what's going on, if I can be self-differentiated enough in the midst of my distress to to be able to kind of say

37:03.51
Nathan Pile
the source is, I don't want to say me, but it is my, my turning my back on God. and so But ah like I have to be in a place where I'm self-differentiated enough to be able to, to do that.

37:20.50
Nathan Pile
Um, if my distress is overwhelming,

37:27.61
Nathan Pile
um, it's easy for me to point the finger at somebody else. It's Kevin's fault.

37:34.52
Nathan Pile
But if I'm, but if I'm able to maybe be a little bit more rational, be a little bit more, um, uh, um,

37:46.11
Nathan Pile
introspective, my,

37:53.72
Nathan Pile
my wants, my, my selfish desires, my turning my back on God is, is often the source of that distress.

38:04.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

38:11.54
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think that's what I was thinking about too. I and, And like usually happens when I hear you mirroring back to me things that I've said or similar themes, I then I start to rethink what I've said.

38:25.21
Nathan Pile
yeah

38:25.34
Kevin Shock
not in a bad way, but I want to be clear.

38:27.32
Nathan Pile
Sure.

38:27.98
Kevin Shock
you know um Again, I just want to be clear that like sometimes distress is caused by external forces. and

38:33.24
Nathan Pile
Sure.

38:33.78
Kevin Shock
But, but I especially, ah like this has me thinking in terms of like distress that happens amongst people. And sometimes, sometimes in relationships there are distress, and that's not always the fault of the person who is on the receiving end or experiencing the distress.

38:41.29
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yeah

38:54.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah. you know I think that it's, it's like, I don't, I want to be careful, me, not you. I want to be careful not like to not get too close to, if I'm, if I'm saying it's all about what I am doing, then I'm getting dangerously close to saying, well, it's always you know it's always the fault of the individual who's experiencing the distress. And I don't think that's true at all.

39:18.04
Kevin Shock
um But I would still say, even in that kind of situation, in a relationship kind of distress, sin is still the root cause of it.

39:26.64
Nathan Pile
Sure. Oh, absolutely.

39:27.19
Kevin Shock
dis disconnectedness from God or from one another.

39:29.11
Nathan Pile
Disconnectedness from one another.

39:30.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah, you get a lot of times in the Psalm, you get all this stuff about, you know, floods and, you know, this, this is for the, the parenthetical statement.

39:42.00
Kevin Shock
For this, every faithful person, man, prays to you in time of need, only that the rush of mighty waters should not reach him. But it's not always the rush of mighty waters. it could, It's the silent treatment. It's, you know,

39:56.98
Kevin Shock
verbal or emotional or relationship violence. it's you know I mean, those that those things cause distress too. That certainly is not the person who's on the receiving end of it, but it is.

40:04.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

40:09.14
Kevin Shock
It's caused by sin. Yeah.

40:13.50
Nathan Pile
Yeah. and I, And I didn't talk much about this in either of the first two questions, but this this conversation makes me think of it in that way. um but That phrase about my sap turned to summer dust.

40:27.67
Nathan Pile
was an interesting image for me in that sap is usually moist and sticky.

40:30.64
Kevin Shock
It is.

40:34.78
Nathan Pile
Two words met some people don't like, sorry. um But sap is that, right? It's, it's moist and sticky.

40:40.60
Kevin Shock
it is

40:41.44
Nathan Pile
and um And when I think of summer dust, we have a dirt road at camp. And those weeks that get super hot and super dry and and to, to the place where we haven't gotten rain for three or four weeks in a row,

40:55.83
Nathan Pile
It's just like this powder dust.

40:59.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Uh-huh

41:00.79
Nathan Pile
um

41:03.32
Nathan Pile
And so this image,

41:09.37
Nathan Pile
my sap turned to summer dust and then we get the the pause for us to kind of sit and wrestle with that image for a minute. my, My selfishness,

41:28.09
Nathan Pile
couldn't dry me up just just like that you know just ah like that from a moist sappy goo to a dusty powder that just lays on everything and it's

41:44.16
Nathan Pile
it's dust it you know um when it's lost all of all of the the the the good stuff that made it ah and sap that was life-bringing, right? That's what sap is. It takes, trees have it. That's what moves the sugars around in the tree, providing the tree health kind of image to a dusty powder. You know, that's what my turning my back on God does to me, right? My, my turning...

42:21.62
Nathan Pile
away from God

42:25.72
Nathan Pile
takes what was life giving and makes it easily blown away.

42:33.56
Nathan Pile
That makes sense.

42:33.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah. and

42:34.68
Nathan Pile
So it was just that image there that I thought kind of tied to our conversation here, um, about in the midst of this distress, um, what our turning away from God does, uh, and that image, um,

42:52.21
Nathan Pile
I liked the image earlier, but this conversation makes me like it even more.

42:58.46
Nathan Pile
Or this part of our conversation makes me like it even more.

43:04.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's, yeah, no, that, that's an image to um that's an image that

43:12.69
Kevin Shock
I don't know what I'm trying to say. I, I don't want to say sticks with you because that's exactly what the...

43:18.97
Nathan Pile
And sticks in the bad way, right? It's like it's like sand in your swimming shorts.

43:23.26
Kevin Shock
Well, no, not for...

43:23.29
Nathan Pile
um Like that's what dust is. That fine dust that gets into stuff.

43:26.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah. not But not for me. there I don't know. There's a... there's a

43:31.29
Nathan Pile
You don't get sand in your swimming shorts?

43:32.66
Kevin Shock
No, I, no, I do. I do. But, the, but the image doesn't affect me.

43:34.21
Nathan Pile
Oh, well.

43:35.98
Kevin Shock
The image makes me think, yes, I understand if like the, um, the, we have a connectedness to God, when there's, um, when there's good reconciled, holy relationship there, um, all that, all that good stuff sticks, sticks to us like sap and, and what you said.

43:55.27
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

43:55.94
Kevin Shock
And then, and then when there's disconnectedness, it just dries up in it and it it's easily blown away. um Yeah, I don't know. That's just, that that's an image that I, I want to think about more.

44:11.08
Kevin Shock
Or want to, more than to think about, I don't know. It's almost a visceral image. I mean, you know, we know what it feels like to get sap stuck on our fingers or our hands.

44:22.29
Nathan Pile
Right.

44:23.12
Kevin Shock
It's usually annoying.

44:23.19
Nathan Pile
And it's there. It is. Yeah. Right. Sure.

44:26.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah, but, yeah.

44:31.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah, for sure.

44:32.65
Kevin Shock
I don't know.

44:33.30
Nathan Pile
Pine for sure. Pine sap pine sap would be annoying.

44:35.16
Kevin Shock
Sure, yeah, it, it sticks, it stays there forever.

44:35.99
Nathan Pile
Like that would be the annoying. Yeah. Yeah.

44:40.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah, don't know, I'm just thinking a lot about... Mm-hmm.

44:43.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah. How that plays out. um Everyone, you, you can't see what just occurred, but I, it was like a you know our friend here in this community, Bishop Kevin.

44:58.26
Nathan Pile
I just was watching him on the computer. And as he was talking, his room must have gotten dark enough that he has a light sensor somewhere in the house.

45:09.37
Kevin Shock
no, there's a No, there's just a timer on this lamp.

45:11.32
Nathan Pile
And a lamp just turned on behind him and there was a glow.

45:13.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

45:16.41
Nathan Pile
It was incredible, incredible. Like it was starting to get dark in, in the room around his face. And then all of a sudden there was light everywhere. It was, ah it was amazing.

45:27.97
Nathan Pile
It was amazing.

45:28.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah, it's just on No, it doesn't.

45:29.11
Nathan Pile
Has nothing to do with what's going on right now in the podcast, but has everything to do with with what my eyes just beholded before me.

45:36.92
Kevin Shock
Good.

45:37.25
Nathan Pile
It was amazing.

45:38.14
Kevin Shock
Good. I'm, I'm glad, I'm glad that that's what you said because you suddenly had me very nervous about what I was doing like unconsciously on the screen.

45:45.59
Nathan Pile
m a Like if if um the psalmist was writing it, it would be something about

45:58.10
Nathan Pile
and joyous.

46:00.76
Nathan Pile
The light was brought forth.

46:02.90
Kevin Shock
ah ah ah

46:06.04
Nathan Pile
To guide, to dry.

46:06.13
Kevin Shock
joyously, comma, light brought forth.

46:07.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah, to light. Right.

46:17.56
Nathan Pile
um ah and I would not say that this was the easiest um Alter reading that we've had, but I did, I do appreciate his

46:26.23
Kevin Shock
No.

46:30.62
Nathan Pile
um imagery. I do appreciate his imagery.

46:34.26
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

46:34.30
Nathan Pile
That continues to be a thing for me here.

46:37.37
Kevin Shock
I, uh, are, are you familiar Nathan with the, uh, biblical scholar, um, Dan McClellan? Does that name ring a bell to you?

46:46.97
Nathan Pile
It does not.

46:47.77
Kevin Shock
He, um, he's internet famous, which is partially why I know him. And, and a friend of mine, well, a friend of mine, uh, told me, uh, sometime in the past year,

46:53.30
Nathan Pile
I'm not a good, very good internet person.

47:02.10
Kevin Shock
that he had read his book and wanted me to read it and give my give him my thoughts on it. So I did. And like, like Dan McClellan's one of those people who, he's um he's a practicing Mormon, actually.

47:13.88
Kevin Shock
um But he really, like he does historical critical, yeah,

47:15.32
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

47:19.24
Nathan Pile
stuff.

47:19.86
Kevin Shock
um yeah interpretation. And, and his, his big phrase is data over dogma. uh that you know we can we can learn about the true intent of the bible through archaeological finds and the, and the text, you know, the different manuscripts and such and so you know a lot of the, a lot of the theology has been lumped on the bible over a couple of millennia but especially in the last couple hundred years like he you know he'll show why this

47:53.21
Kevin Shock
this, this theology was not the intent of the biblical scholars like so a lot of his stuff I end up agreeing with but I would say, I would also say that like after listening to the two two-thirds of his book it just became repetitive for me because it was like yeah okay I get your point like it's yes the data says this the dogma says something different yes I understand um

48:08.84
Nathan Pile
Right.

48:17.11
Kevin Shock
So, but anyway, I just, I, you know, I was ah doom scrolling through reels the other night while my the brain was sapped of energy. And, and he had his, his top choices for the best, someone asked him to give the, the, what he thought were the best Hebrew scripture translations that are out there right now.

48:40.54
Kevin Shock
And, and his top was Robert Alter's translation.

48:45.31
Nathan Pile
Nice. Nice.

48:46.30
Kevin Shock
and his And his list also included the NRSVUE, actually.

48:52.45
Nathan Pile
Oh, wow.

48:52.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So, anyway. I can't, I can't remember what the other translations were. They weren't ones that we read- readily used, but, yeah.

49:01.22
Nathan Pile
That we readily use. No Everett, and any Everett Fox.

49:03.51
Kevin Shock
Oh, no. Mmm.

49:04.76
Nathan Pile
Any Everett Fox. That's the one I have, but that's just for the first five books. Yeah.

49:10.55
Kevin Shock
Actually, maybe. Now that you mention that, because I remember one was just the Torah.

49:12.57
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

49:15.37
Kevin Shock
And actually, the other one of the other ones was one that I have on my shelf, and that's the Jewish Publication Society translation of the Tanakh, all of the writings, the whole Hebrew scripture.

49:25.80
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

49:28.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah, JPS was one, Altar was one, NRSVUE was one. And then, yeah, maybe that Everett Fox is one, because it was just the Torah was one of them. just the first five books.

49:40.19
Kevin Shock
So yeah.

49:40.86
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

49:43.05
Kevin Shock
Anyway, I just thought it was interesting that it, it made me feel good that, uh, you know, a a, famous biblical scholar thinks that, uh, translations that we're using are good ones.

49:50.41
Nathan Pile
That we use it. That we use it.

49:54.86
Kevin Shock
yeah,

49:57.11
Nathan Pile
Look at us. Not complete.

50:00.73
Kevin Shock
not, not complete heretics or, uh, or, I don't know, doofuses.

50:03.15
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

50:07.42
Kevin Shock
I'm not sure what the other word is.

50:08.47
Nathan Pile
ah Yeah, it was more, I was thinking more hillbillies, more, you know, not, but it does, it does.

50:13.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that kind of fits with us too. Yeah. All right. um any other Any other thoughts about this text, Nathan?

50:23.40
Nathan Pile
I don't think so. I think I'm good.

50:24.63
Kevin Shock
Okay. Well, folks, as you heard me mention, this is these are readings for the first Sunday in Lent. Every Sunday, a celebration of the resurrection, which is why we have things like Sundays of Easter and Sundays of Christmas, but why we have Sundays in Lent.

50:47.56
Kevin Shock
Okay. We take a break from the fast and celebrate the, the resurrection on Sundays in Lent. But in any case, um the additional text, if you're looking for more things to talk about and some and some texts that probably you know could generate a lot of conversation. Genesis chapter 2, verses 15 through 17, and chapter 3, verses 1 through 7, is the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

51:18.52
Nathan Pile
There would be lots of, we could have lots of debate about those.

51:20.70
Kevin Shock
There is lots to talk about there. you Talk about the whole, ah what, what, what was the last question?

51:22.62
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

51:26.05
Kevin Shock
What role does sin play in your distress? there's Right, there is another one. that You could use that same question to talk about that.

51:31.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

51:32.57
Kevin Shock
reading. Romans chapter 5 verses 12 through 19. Death came through one and life comes through one. You might guess which one is each of those.

51:45.46
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

51:45.69
Kevin Shock
ah a Hint, Adam and Jesus. um

51:48.86
Nathan Pile
if its

51:49.88
Kevin Shock
And then Matthew chapter 4 verses 1 through 11. The temptation of Jesus in the wilderness for 40 days. It's a traditional reading for, for Sunday and Lent. Different gospels, but same story, temptation of Jesus.

52:04.76
Kevin Shock
So as always, friends, we would love to hear what you have to talk about, about the what role sin plays in your distress or in the distress of the world. ah And um, and what you think of

52:18.01
Kevin Shock
ah weird sentences that don't make sense in English, but make sense in Hebrew. Um, anything that you'd like to talk to us about, we are, happy to talk about it. And Nathan, did we, um, did we in this episode yet plug the, uh, book study for Lent that we're doing?

52:34.68
Nathan Pile
We have not this, this, this time. So we could, we're, we're getting ready to do it launch it yeah on Tuesday.

52:36.82
Kevin Shock
Okay. Every, every Tuesday. Yeah. Uh, so when this drops, uh, the, the next day, um, we are Nathan and I are leading a book study, ah Why Lutheran Voices Matter.

52:53.27
Kevin Shock
Is that what it's that's what it's called, right, Nathan?

52:55.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why the Lutheran voice matters today.

52:59.96
Kevin Shock
Okay. um And we are going to be using a book called By Heart, Conversations with Martin Luther's Small Catechism. That will be every Tuesday at 7 p.m.

53:12.86
Kevin Shock
via Zoom on Sequanota Zoom. So that you can find that information about the study and about the Zoom meeting on the Sequanota website, which is sequanota.com.

53:23.99
Nathan Pile
Yes.

53:26.34
Kevin Shock
Is that right, Nathan?

53:28.06
Nathan Pile
Sequanota.com.

53:29.27
Kevin Shock
Okay. So we would love for you all to be a part of that. And, um, yeah. And to, to let your, uh, be part of the discussion as we look at these, um this, this basic text, but rich text, uh, of our faith tradition in, in the Lutheran tradition.

53:50.20
Kevin Shock
Um, But whether we talk to you then or hear from you via email or social media, we, we hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

54:02.17
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

54:03.86
Nathan Pile
And peace.