S4 Episode 16: Genesis 12:1-4a

Translation: New English Translation (NET Bible)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How might others receive blessing through us?

Additional texts:

Psalm 121

Romans 4:1-5, 13-17

John 3:1-17

Transcript

00:02.46
Nathan Pile
Well, I don't know what's happening in your neck of the woods, but here it's still winter.

00:10.23
Kevin Shock
Oh, boy.

00:10.45
Nathan Pile
Punxsutawney Phil, Punxsutawney Phil tells us we got six more weeks, everybody. It's very exciting. Very exciting. And fresh snow. Fresh snow.

00:22.65
Kevin Shock
Mmm.

00:22.74
Nathan Pile
So um I'm staying in where it's warm, Kevin. You want to join me for a Tend podcast and we'll just talk about the Bible and stay warm today?

00:33.22
Kevin Shock
I would love that, actually. Yeah.

00:35.16
Nathan Pile
Sweet.

00:36.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:36.95
Nathan Pile
All right.

00:37.38
Kevin Shock
I'm a, I don't have my shirt tucked in. I'm in comfy pants and a sweatshirt and I'm want to, yes, talk about scripture with you.

00:45.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah. But we probably ought to tell, we to probably name the elephant in the room. It's official, everyone. Kevin is Bishop.

00:56.82
Kevin Shock
Well, for, for people hearing the podcast as it's released, it was official before.

01:02.97
Nathan Pile
It was a couple of weeks ago, but today.

01:04.70
Kevin Shock
But yes, as we're recording.

01:05.18
Nathan Pile
Yesterday, really, actually Sunday. So um, so we are, we're obviously, as, as, as is our pattern, recording a little early, but I get to call my friend now Bishop Kevin.

01:08.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:19.99
Nathan Pile
so Welcome to the podcast, Bishop Kevin. It's good to have you here.

01:25.69
Kevin Shock
Thanks, Pastor Nathan.

01:29.24
Nathan Pile
This week, ah we're going to have a conversation around Genesis chapter 12, verses 1 through 4a. So the first half of the verse the fourth verse.

01:43.26
Nathan Pile
So this was a very short reading this week. um We're going to read from the New English Translation, the NET Bible.

01:54.10
Nathan Pile
Kevin and I will be reading from Bible Gateway. You can go BibleGateway.com or use the Bible Gateway app for your phone or just pull the Bible off your shelf that's close by.

02:01.23
Kevin Shock
Sure.

02:08.97
Nathan Pile
Or maybe you have one saved on your phone. That that would be that would be kind of a good resource to have on your phone too, a Bible. um So any of those things, we're going to read through these, and then we're going to discuss our three questions. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

02:28.82
Nathan Pile
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And our third question this week, how might others receive blessing through us?

02:38.81
Kevin Shock
It's a good question.

02:40.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

02:42.62
Kevin Shock
here, Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

02:52.86
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than any anyone else.

03:04.15
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

03:15.16
Kevin Shock
And we have a short reading today, as Nathan alluded to, Genesis 12. from genesis twelve

03:25.21
Kevin Shock
Now the Lord said to Abram, go out from your country your relatives and your father's household to the land that i will show you then i will make you into a great nation and i will bless you and i will make your name great so that you will exemplify divine blessing i will bless those who bless you but the one who treats you lightly i must curse so that all the families of the earth may receive blessing through you So Abram left, just as the Lord had told him to do, and Lot went with him.

03:56.66
Kevin Shock
If you are listening to this podcast with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Nathan, what about you? What word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

04:11.58
Nathan Pile
um As you read it, the thing that caught my attention was that first command of go out. um Boy, that would be a hard, that be a hard invitation.

04:29.94
Nathan Pile
I say that as a middle-aged man who grew up in his home area, went to college a little farther away, but not too far.

04:46.20
Kevin Shock
But not too much.

04:49.33
Nathan Pile
And who um worked in some camps again, at least within touching the state of Pennsylvania, didn't, didn't travel too far. And, and then eventually settled back into Pennsylvania at camp and then went to seminary again, a couple hours away from home, but not too far.

05:11.45
Nathan Pile
um And when I graduated from seminary, had the option, could have gone anywhere in the country, but I didn't limit myself, but my first choice on back when Kevin, Bishop and I went through the process, you could put quick put down three choices. My first choice was to come home.

05:40.86
Nathan Pile
So that idea of going out, of being told to leave your home and, and in such a way that you're taking everybody with you means, feels like you're not coming back.

05:41.06
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

05:43.45
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

05:54.20
Nathan Pile
um So that that was what kind of caught me at the beginning of this. um Like leave your home country, leave your relatives, leave your father's household, and I'll show you where you're going to go.

06:11.77
Nathan Pile
Boy, that's some faithfulness by Abram.

06:19.34
Nathan Pile
Faithfulness that I'm not positive I have. um

06:28.57
Nathan Pile
Because I like to be where my people are.

06:34.87
Nathan Pile
If that makes sense.

06:36.44
Kevin Shock
yeah.

06:36.60
Nathan Pile
so So that was what struck me here was that this was ah this is a really big um I guess invitation, but it's, it's a command.

06:48.16
Nathan Pile
Go out is ah is a verb.

06:49.65
Kevin Shock
Sure.

06:51.32
Nathan Pile
Go is a verb. Yeah,

06:58.84
Nathan Pile
yeah so, so that was what struck me was that like not only did he did Abram hear what God was saying, but Abram heard it and listened um and and went, left.

07:20.76
Nathan Pile
And that, that would, yeah, that, that's a, that's good faithfulness on Abram's part. Again, it's a faithfulness that I'm not positive. I'm, I'm happy to be faithful in other ways, but um but to leave, yeah,

07:31.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

07:39.54
Nathan Pile
yeah that, that would be hard.

07:41.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. And the other side of that, or the other end of that, is that this is, it mentions in the notes here in the NET Bible, but this is this is just a command to leave.

07:57.08
Kevin Shock
This is not, um, there's not a destination.

08:00.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

08:01.30
Kevin Shock
and And I think that makes it even, even harder. This isn't like, you know, the you're going to take a trip and settle in this specific land that you've heard of before that you know about. This is kind of a, almost a, you'll know it when you get there.

08:18.87
Kevin Shock
And ah that's not the kind of trip that I would be very willing to make. um For all of the reasons that you name, because we're, we're similar in a lot of those ways that the big change for me is that most of my family has gone elsewhere.

08:34.97
Kevin Shock
So I don't have that same connection, but I'm still rooted here in this area and feel a strong rootedness in this area. um But yeah, but if God came and said, okay, you're going to leave this area, I think that I could deal with, but then to go where, well, I'll show you.

08:54.97
Kevin Shock
boy You'll know it when you get there. And that is kind of like, okay, well then why make all these preparations? What, what exactly am I, going to this also brings the mind for me is like thinking about calls to ministry

09:06.30
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

09:13.24
Kevin Shock
we always tell pastors and deacons um you should be looking for what you're called to if you're if you're called from away from something that's probably not a, I mean, it might be a good enough reason to leave but But be wary of like what your discernment is then if you just, if you're just like, I need to get out of here.

09:36.22
Kevin Shock
um And this, yeah.

09:36.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

09:37.86
Kevin Shock
So ah thinking about this, I'm thinking, well, God, that this is a great command and a great invitation that you give to Abram, but it certainly is not the kind of thing that I would say to somebody in the church.

09:49.78
Kevin Shock
ah

09:50.75
Nathan Pile
Right, right.

09:51.61
Kevin Shock
ah

09:52.98
Nathan Pile
Or they would have to be really called to it. Yeah, I guess. And so, you know, maybe that's a part of the Abraham too.

09:55.80
Kevin Shock
Well, right. No, call it. Well, well, called to, that's the thing, right? If I, if I said to someone, you know, I think you're really called to this ministry, this church, that's one thing, but I wouldn't say, I think it's just time for you to leave and I don't have anywhere else for you to go.

10:11.74
Kevin Shock
I think Like,

10:11.97
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

10:14.84
Kevin Shock
obviously God has a greater plan in mind than what I would have, but um yeah, it's, yeah, there's not, the the point A is there. and the path has begun, but um but point B isn't there. And that's what that's what is that's what's concerning, I think.

10:36.63
Kevin Shock
Makes it difficult, yeah. um For me, ah that in, in verse two, the NET translates, so that you will exemplify divine blessing.

10:52.62
Kevin Shock
i'm I'm just, that's, ah it's not something that we hear in other translations, ah it's rendered differently.

10:53.54
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

11:01.20
Kevin Shock
And so that, that was new language for me that I just hadn't heard before. um it In other translations, it's something like, I will bless you and make your name great so that you will be a blessing.

11:16.76
Kevin Shock
um Which, again, I think we kind of understand, but what does that mean exactly, make your name great? Here, it makes more sense what exactly, i will make your name great so that you will exemplify divine blessing. um And I, when I read that, I think, okay, so that means that you will you're you're the you're the person that people will look to and say, ah, that's what God's blessing looks like.

11:48.09
Kevin Shock
um which is a great gift. And I think, I think in some regard, it's also a responsibility. um Although I, I find myself sometimes lately getting too focused on the responsibility part of it, not the gift part of it.

12:09.04
Kevin Shock
um

12:09.32
Nathan Pile
No.

12:10.55
Kevin Shock
This is a gift.

12:10.78
Nathan Pile
Well, because that that idea of exemplify does feel like a promise, right? As you, you know, just it's that idea of gift that you're talking and that you that you've kind of stated.

12:21.34
Kevin Shock
Well, I like, I don't, I don't know for me, that sounds, uh, um, not unlike a promise, but it, but it sounds like, like this is something that you're going to have to live up to. Um, which I don't think is, I don't think is accurate. I, and that's maybe it's just the, the way that I read the word exemplify, like you, you need to be an example for others. That's what I hear in that.

12:49.29
Kevin Shock
And, um, but, but it is a, yeah, but maybe I'm, maybe I'm letting my own junk get in the way of what this is actually saying.

13:01.37
Kevin Shock
This is, you know, because God says, I will, I will make your name great. It's not up to you to make your name great. I will make your name great.

13:08.12
Nathan Pile
right

13:08.82
Kevin Shock
and and And in doing that, you're you're going to be the person that people look to to see what divine blessing looks like.

13:08.86
Nathan Pile
right

13:16.41
Kevin Shock
So yes, it is, yeah, it is gift. It's complete gift. um And, um you know, we, thinking about Abram, we there's another reading that's, when we get to the end of the podcast episode, um another reading for this week that talks about Abram's, or I think it says in Abraham in that reading, his righteousness, that that god God saw his faithfulness, his trust, and reckoned it to him as righteousness. Yeah.

13:50.14
Kevin Shock
But even that, we read in the New Testament that things like faithfulness and righteousness are gifts of the Spirit. This is not, you know, Abram, Abram made good decisions, and so God rewarded him.

14:07.19
Kevin Shock
ah

14:07.64
Nathan Pile
Because we know Abram makes bad decisions.

14:10.10
Kevin Shock
we We do know that Abram makes bad decisions, right? The path is not always ah the the path is not always clear for Abram. and um

14:20.66
Nathan Pile
He doesn't make it easy.

14:21.98
Kevin Shock
And he doesn't always make it easy. Yeah, no, but I mean, that's, well, right. And in that way, Abram does exemplify human blessing. ah But like so many others in scripture, he also exemplifies human folly.

14:38.31
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yeah.

14:39.26
Kevin Shock
Like where we mess up.

14:40.86
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

14:41.46
Kevin Shock
Sin, we could say. but But it is, it's it's sin by means of making bad choices, trying to trying to take care of things on your own and, uh, you know, getting worked up about the stuff that maybe you don't have to get worked up about.

15:00.01
Kevin Shock
Cause it's no wonder. I mean, I totally understand that, um, God says to you, leave everything, you know, and go head in this direction and I'll let you know when you get there.

15:13.85
Kevin Shock
And, um the, I think it's a natural human inclination that after a little while, we kind of say to ourselves, oh, goodness, this isn't working out.

15:27.86
Kevin Shock
Like, I need to take matters into my own hands. And that's where we often get in so much trouble when we say, well, I need to take matters into my own hands. um Yeah, so that's

15:40.18
Nathan Pile
Well, that's ah that's that the self- selfish, sinful side of ourselves, right?

15:46.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right, yeah.

15:46.42
Nathan Pile
Like, I can, I'll, I'll take care of this.

15:50.26
Kevin Shock
Well, it's, it's that. it's also it's also fear. It can be fear-driven, think, too.

15:53.66
Nathan Pile
Fear, sure.

15:54.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah like, oh, God isn't you know God hasn't spoken to me for a couple of days, so it God must have forgotten about me, so I'm going to have to make this work on my own.

16:07.55
Nathan Pile
Right.

16:07.70
Kevin Shock
yeah, I mean, good luck with that. that it's not It's just not the way it works out.

16:12.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

16:14.55
Kevin Shock
So, yeah.

16:17.87
Nathan Pile
All right, ready it a third time, er, second time?

16:19.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah, let's do it a second time.

16:26.10
Nathan Pile
Now the Lord said to Abram, go out from your country, your relatives, and your father's household to the land that I will show you.

16:37.24
Nathan Pile
Then I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you, And I will make your name great so that you will exemplify divine blessing. I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly, I will curse. I must curse so that all the families of the earth may receive blessing through you.

17:01.27
Nathan Pile
So Abram left just as the Lord had told him to do. And Lot went with him.

17:10.94
Nathan Pile
Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

17:16.44
Kevin Shock
Well, I think, um,

17:27.02
Kevin Shock
I, I, I'm leaning toward something that what I, uh, just the conversation as we were headed, as it was moving at the end of the first question, um, that, uh,

17:47.93
Kevin Shock
This is calling me to find ways to not let my own need for control

17:55.16
Kevin Shock
guide the try to guide the way of what God is doing in me or through me.

18:03.06
Kevin Shock
um I have to confess, I'm not like, I'm, I'm not the kind of person who... Well...

18:15.42
Kevin Shock
well I think, I think in the moment I like attention.

18:22.42
Kevin Shock
but But I'm not the kind of person who necessarily seeks it out. And um ah there's some, because of that, there's some discomfort, internal discomfort for me in this new position, this new call. Yeah.

18:46.36
Kevin Shock
I think there's, I think there's great opportunity.

18:51.19
Kevin Shock
I also think that there's, like, I, I don't know. the, it, if I get, If I get stuck in all-eyes-on-me mentality, I just get, like, it it messes with me.

19:05.66
Kevin Shock
doesn't make me feel good. um And I don't think that, I don't think that that's the intention of this office or this call, but I do think that, um,

19:21.56
Kevin Shock
I think when I feel that way, then I get into the, um, well, I can't, I can't slip up at all. I can't make any mistakes. Like I got to keep pushing.

19:32.09
Nathan Pile
Well, and I guess I was hearing some of that in your first response of the responsibility factor here of, of we've, we've been talking about Abram being that exemplifying the divine blessing.

19:35.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

19:47.48
Nathan Pile
um

19:50.14
Nathan Pile
But that idea of being

19:54.61
Nathan Pile
the gifts that you've been given to be called to the position that you've now been called, there's that responsibility piece does sound like it is weighing on you here as you begin this new call.

20:08.60
Kevin Shock
It is, it's so weird, I don't want to, I don't want to make this episode about me uh I, well, right there it is, right there and no I know, I know, I know know yeah um yeah there's there's that yeah, I don't know where this turn has taken but it this is new this is a this is a new way for me to feel like the the weight of responsibility and

20:08.63
Nathan Pile
um yeah

20:16.22
Nathan Pile
We're not, we're just talking about the scripture. It's okay. Okay.

20:34.78
Kevin Shock
um

20:34.94
Nathan Pile
Sure.

20:36.66
Kevin Shock
And like, I think probably in part that's healthy, but it doesn't feel healthy.

20:42.60
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

20:42.71
Kevin Shock
And so there, ah there have been certain things um like I, I, I've, I've reinvigorated some ah prayer and devotional practices that I haven't done for a few years, just in the past, like couple of days

20:59.07
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

21:04.63
Kevin Shock
to help alleviate this feeling.

21:08.76
Kevin Shock
and And to remind myself of promise. that You know, this is, like, looking at this text, Abram, the only thing that Abram does is Abram leaves, just as the Lord had told him to do.

21:25.72
Kevin Shock
But everything else comes from God.

21:28.76
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

21:31.42
Kevin Shock
and And even, and you know, we could even argue, and I would argue, that even Abram's obedience listening to God and leaving, that comes from God too.

21:43.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's very Lutheran of us, right?

21:44.82
Kevin Shock
he's, he's not, he's, and He's not going to do that unless God not just... there's there's um It belittles the connection between God and Abram, or Abram and the blessing, to think that Abram came to this conclusion and and followed the call all of his own devices.

22:08.44
Nathan Pile
Right.

22:10.01
Kevin Shock
He didn't do it by his own devices. He did it because of the blessing of God. Yeah. that's a real like, That's a real mystery kind of thing um in our faith tradition.

22:27.00
Kevin Shock
and um And it's something that rubs up against our modern understanding of free will. um

22:34.27
Nathan Pile
Right.

22:34.68
Kevin Shock
But for

22:35.84
Nathan Pile
And getting ahead because I've put the work in or I've done, you know.

22:38.84
Kevin Shock
Cause I put the work in. Right. Yeah. Yeah. yeah

22:44.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

22:44.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I'm yeah. Yeah. Um,

22:49.05
Nathan Pile
So intellectually, you're telling me you hear the message of this passage.

22:53.34
Kevin Shock
yes. Yeah.

22:54.39
Nathan Pile
You still have to figure out how to, to um receive it.

22:58.62
Kevin Shock
Receive it. Yeah. yeah, Yeah. Yeah.

23:03.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

23:04.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

23:04.79
Nathan Pile
Well, I,

23:04.95
Kevin Shock
I mean, if, if, if we read, um you know, Luther's bondage of the will, Luther's pretty clear that the that the Christian has free will in all areas of life, except for salvation.

23:10.45
Nathan Pile
mm-hmm.

23:22.46
Kevin Shock
um we're We're bound to the to the will of God in Christ to save all creation, ourselves included.

23:33.69
Kevin Shock
and

23:33.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:34.71
Kevin Shock
And it's an, it's an irresistible call in, in Luther's understanding. Jesus calls and we respond. there's, There's no other choice.

23:45.13
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

23:46.36
Kevin Shock
um Now, that raises all other kinds of questions and issues and things to discuss, but um but Luther's pretty clear on it.

23:59.16
Kevin Shock
Well, and even, yeah, I talk about the bondage of the will. and I'll shut up after this. But, but um but the third his explanation of the third article of the Creed that it essentially says, I don't have it memorized anymore. I don't think I ever did. But essentially, I can't, I can't come to this conclusion by my own devices.

24:21.23
Kevin Shock
It's only because the Spirit exists. speaks to me and equips me and empowers me and and um calls me to repentance and makes that repentance possible, that I know the gift of salvation that exists in Jesus Christ.

24:39.48
Kevin Shock
I can't figure it out and do it on my own. And that's, that's evident in Abram's story here. Yeah.

24:50.90
Nathan Pile
I think for, I think for me to answer this second question, it's, it, it, it is in the same area where you're at.

24:52.73
Kevin Shock
yeah

25:01.37
Nathan Pile
I think the that piece of recognizing the blessing that is from God in the midst of of all situations, um, you know, here,

25:16.98
Nathan Pile
um God is very clear with Abram. and And I think you did say this earlier and I was going to make comment of it and that's right before my dog did crazy things.

25:28.79
Nathan Pile
You said Abram and Abraham. So if somebody is just listening along here for the first time, Abraham and Abram, Abram and Abraham are the same individual.

25:39.13
Kevin Shock
They are, thank you.

25:40.79
Nathan Pile
So, and, and so it's not that we're, changing his name for our own, it happens within the story of Abram and eventually becomes Abraham.

25:54.14
Nathan Pile
um And this is true also for his spouse.

26:01.70
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

26:01.98
Nathan Pile
Her name also changes. so, um, And it's just a part of the story. And so I encourage you to go read earlier or later in, in Genesis to hear how that all plays out.

26:14.94
Nathan Pile
but and So I just wanted to make a that that point. But then, again, how, how do, from our Lutheran Christian lens, in a world that that works to convince us that the best way of living is consuming and being a consumer and acquiring enough money to buy the things that you need to acquire enough clout at work to get the promotion to, to have had, to have the nice things

26:59.45
Nathan Pile
um there's again here in the very beginning of the first testament we hear that God is, um, God is made of the fabric that gives.

27:19.26
Nathan Pile
God gifts. God, God promises and God gifts over and over and over again. And, and that blessing, whether it is to be a great nation or it is to be just a good human being, whatever that, that that blessing has its source in God.

27:40.18
Nathan Pile
And it's given to us but not because we've gone and done something. It's not, again, this blessing is promised before verse four, where it says Abram left.

28:01.18
Nathan Pile
the Verses one, through two, and three kind of talk about how God is going to bless Abram.

28:12.28
Nathan Pile
And then Abram leaves. And so again, I think for me as a follower of Christ, a follower of God, um not sliding into the the temptation that I have what I have because I got it.

28:38.81
Nathan Pile
I did the work and so it's mine.

28:43.16
Nathan Pile
It's, it's, um, it might be mine because it was gifted to me. Um, but it's a, that's a different way of, I think of looking at the world and what our capitalistic system,

28:57.10
Nathan Pile
um, that pervades our culture tells us.

29:02.29
Nathan Pile
So, um,

29:03.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

29:04.86
Nathan Pile
And so that's a strong, like it, it's, it's, it's a you know, i don't want it to feel like it's just nuanced here because in it is embedded that idea of faithfulness.

29:16.50
Nathan Pile
You know God is faithful in the giving and Abraham in turn, obedient, um faithful, lives into,

29:16.77
Kevin Shock
Right, yeah.

29:29.78
Nathan Pile
to, into that blessing.

29:33.88
Nathan Pile
And so what does that mean for us as God's people um as we live into that blessing?

29:34.30
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Yeah.

29:41.30
Nathan Pile
as As you said earlier, again, there's this, and I don't think it's a fine line, but I agree with you that, that in God, God's gift,

29:53.66
Nathan Pile
we then become freed to live in God's way, which is a far less selfish thing

29:59.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

30:03.38
Nathan Pile
less me focused worldview.

30:09.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

30:09.78
Nathan Pile
And that's not necessarily here, but that to me is what is in that divine blessing.

30:16.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And that's, boy, that's really the rub, isn't it, Nathan?

30:16.73
Nathan Pile
Give as freely as God gives.

30:22.97
Kevin Shock
That ah we're set free to live in this way.

30:29.08
Kevin Shock
But there is so much, but it's but it's a way that's counter to the way that the world tells us to live. and, And when you see other people around you finding success, gaining wealth, living comfortably, that's a, um like, I guess the question comes down to why, why would I choose to receive a blessing

30:45.86
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

30:58.78
Kevin Shock
that doesn't necessarily get me anywhere, like like this reading says, you know, just just leave, just go, and I'll show you where you're supposed to go. Well, I want some direction, God.

31:10.01
Kevin Shock
And I want some more, I want some promises that, you know, I'm going to like, am I, am I going to have a better job there? Am I going to get more livestock there? Am I going to have more, you know, more servants and slaves there? Is this going is this a good move for me? Like, those are all of the questions that we ask ourselves.

31:29.46
Kevin Shock
And we ask the people around us whenever a new opportunity is presented. And, um and those aren't,

31:34.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

31:38.65
Kevin Shock
those aren't God's relational, those aren't questions that come up in that relationship with God.

31:46.14
Kevin Shock
You know, the questions that come up, we know what we heard ah couple of weeks ago and in ah, in, in worship and um in, in our readings, um what that the question is, what is required of you, o human?

32:05.59
Kevin Shock
ah What's the path to good life? And it's to, to do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with your God.

32:21.60
Kevin Shock
But when the rest of the world is asking the question, well, will that um will that increase my stock profile?

32:30.27
Kevin Shock
it's that's not a That's not a question in the relationship with God. and And unfortunately... we um We too easily look at ah at a story like the story of Abram, and, and we, um what's the word I want to use here? We, we meld it with our, our human ways and values, and we equate blessing with getting a lot of stuff and having a comfortable life.

33:02.20
Kevin Shock
I mean, how many how many times that do you hear someone say, well, we've, we've been blessed with what we've been given?

33:10.68
Kevin Shock
What about the people who don't have it anything? um Those are the people that Jesus say receives the blessing. um Yeah, so there's there's this constant tension between holy values, God's values, the relationship we seek with God, and then the values of individuals, the values of the world, the all these other values that seek to maybe not seek to, but draw us away from God, distract us from the way of God.

33:41.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

33:46.81
Kevin Shock
and I, And I feel like I don't, I had a conversation with a with a group of people yesterday and we were talking about, I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's gotten worse or I've just gotten older or we've gotten older and we see it more easily, that how so much in this world distracts us from following in the way of God.

34:09.69
Kevin Shock
And yeah, even, even when we're seeking to be holy and seeking to be faithful, there's we employ the ways of the world to do that as though to say our way is better.

34:28.89
Kevin Shock
um But what happens in this reading is that God makes Abram exemplify divine blessing. Abram is not out there saying to people, well, this is the way you should go because it's the better way.

34:38.49
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

34:43.66
Kevin Shock
It's the good way. It's just that God is blessing Abram. And if people can't see it, then they're not going to receive the invitation.

34:56.02
Kevin Shock
I mean, I think that's what's behind that line. but, But the one who treats you lightly, I must curse.

35:05.11
Kevin Shock
I will bless those who bless you. the, The ones who look at your life and say, ah, yes, this is good. I will ah They will receive the blessing too. But the ones who look at it and say, ah, you're, you're stupid for following that God. You must be crazy. you're not you know You could do so much better if you just would have stayed where you were.

35:25.59
Kevin Shock
Well, God's going to leave them behind.

35:25.77
Nathan Pile
All

35:35.54
Kevin Shock
Well, any other thoughts about that one?

35:36.39
Nathan Pile
right. Do it. No, no, it's good.

35:39.77
Kevin Shock
All right.

35:39.77
Nathan Pile
um um'm I'm liking, I'm liking what you're putting down.

35:45.75
Kevin Shock
Well, it, yeah.

35:46.10
Nathan Pile
It's not, It's challenging. you know, I think that's the piece for all of us is that I i think when we talk this way, it's challenging and so, and actually maybe even ah to the point of uncomfortable.

36:02.33
Nathan Pile
And so it's better to kind of, you know, back off this kind of conversation and, and go back into the gray, right? Go back into the, well, we're not really sure how we're supposed to live.

36:13.85
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

36:17.56
Nathan Pile
um

36:18.05
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

36:18.49
Nathan Pile
Well, if we're to be, if we've been blessed to be a blessing, whoo

36:30.49
Nathan Pile
It's not that we're not going to foul it up sometimes because, you know again, in Abram's story, Abraham, Abram, Abraham,

36:40.86
Nathan Pile
um in his story, he doesn't get it right at times, but continues to seek to be faithful.

36:54.20
Nathan Pile
to live obediently to that blessing. And so,

37:00.51
Nathan Pile
yeah.

37:02.86
Kevin Shock
Yep. All right. Well, let's hear about Abram one more time.

37:07.85
Nathan Pile
One more time.

37:11.32
Kevin Shock
Thanks.

37:12.34
Nathan Pile
You're welcome. You're welcome.

37:12.92
Kevin Shock
Now the Lord said to Abram, Go out from your county your country, your relatives, and your father's household to the land that I will show you.

37:20.41
Kevin Shock
Then I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you. And I will make your name great, so that you will exemplify divine blessing. I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, so that all the families of the earth may receive blessing through you.

37:35.86
Kevin Shock
So Abram left, just as the Lord had told him to do, and Lot went with him.

37:42.84
Kevin Shock
Nathan, how might others receive blessing through us?

37:54.55
Kevin Shock
glad I'm, glad you're answering this one first.

37:56.73
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Because of what I'm working on right now here in the camp office, um I, I'm trying to, to think about this in a specific way.

38:18.94
Nathan Pile
um Because one of the things that is happening right now is, um, is, we're, our, our, um, exemption as a, um, as a camp organization, um charitable, religiously affiliated, um, is being challenged. And so one of the things I'm having to do is try to, write down for us how we're different than,

38:49.08
Nathan Pile
um

38:52.18
Nathan Pile
or, or be able to articulate how we're different than a hotel, how, how camp is different than a hotel, right?

38:56.52
Kevin Shock
Oh

38:58.89
Nathan Pile
And so this idea of being a blessing, because so some of the comments are like, they just come and stay with you, right? That's what they do at a hotel. um and, And we say, yeah, but we talk about it as hosted ministry.

39:09.30
Kevin Shock
my gosh.

39:11.98
Nathan Pile
And, and so it's, it's about blessing those who come to this space and place, whether they're Christian or not, that doesn't matter. It's about reflecting the light of Christ on them when they're in this space and place.

39:30.01
Nathan Pile
um And so trying to articulate that and and this question kind of, they they they, for me are kind of bordered right now of, you know, how might others receive blessing through us? Like how are, how is it like,

39:50.30
Nathan Pile
you know we've, we've, you know, you' maybe you've gone to a hotel and you've had good customer service, but I don't use the word customer service. When I talk about what we do at Sequel Nota, I talk about, um, I talk about ministry. I talk about hosted ministry. I talk about programmed ministry.

40:06.84
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and so how, how do we, how do we, um are we different than the world?

40:20.09
Nathan Pile
um To me, customer services somebody calls and says, hey, I need a pillowcase. Okay, I get you pillowcase. um

40:30.23
Nathan Pile
But like how to, you know, thats that's like that's a customer service thing. But I want it to be more than just a pillowcase. Like when I bring it to you, like, you know, we have an interaction. we build a bit of a relationship, you know, you know, it's, it's about experiencing grace in, in the moment.

40:52.73
Nathan Pile
Um, you know and so how, how do we teach our staff to do that? Um, how do we do it and, and recognize it, can we do it all the time? Probably not, uh, because we're human and there's going to be days that we're just not going to be as grace filled, um, as others. Um,

41:12.60
Nathan Pile
But trying to think about um

41:17.21
Nathan Pile
how I might be a blessing to others is, is kind of a like to me that's different than customer service.

41:29.59
Nathan Pile
How might people feel blessed by their experience at Sequanota, whatever it whatever it is or was. um and so thinking about that in my actions specifically.

41:48.05
Nathan Pile
Again, this gets into that that that place where you know you're talking about responsibility. But again, to me, it's not so much a responsibility as it is that it goes back to the source, right?

42:04.92
Nathan Pile
God is a giver, which makes me a giver, right?

42:07.32
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

42:11.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah. that's Yeah. Yep.

42:12.73
Nathan Pile
um So how might others receive blessing through us is that simply um we have to i have to be a giver um and a giver of blessing, of unconditional blessing.

42:13.34
Kevin Shock
You're keying into it right there.

42:29.08
Nathan Pile
um And, and, and they have to be willing to receive it, right? um Just like anything if, If I attempt to engage you in what I would consider to be ministry, and in, in, in having a grace moment, having an encounter with grace,

42:52.24
Kevin Shock
So.

42:53.85
Nathan Pile
um

42:57.27
Nathan Pile
as I deliver a pillowcase to you, you have to be willing to accept the gift that I'm offering. Maybe you only want to accept the pillowcase, but I'm going to offer more than the pillowcase

43:17.98
Nathan Pile
through relationship, through conversation, through, um, that part of, uh, you know, helping that you to know that you belong and you are accepted in this space and place. And that, um, and so like your question has me kind of wrestling with, again, because I'm trying to articulate this for us in this current moment as a organization, um,

43:45.27
Nathan Pile
How, how, how do I help others receive blessing? Well, I do think that we're, again, in our capitalistic society, we create a bit of a,

43:59.32
Nathan Pile
um

44:02.91
Nathan Pile
well, if I, if you give me something, then I'll give you something back in return. Right. But how do we help tear that down in such a way that, that,

44:15.45
Nathan Pile
what we give you know as a, as a ministry site, this, this space and place we want you to feel so blessed that in leaving that you have been blessed that that you've been given something that you didn't know you needed but on on on reflection you experienced something that you needed to experience.

44:41.32
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:44.66
Nathan Pile
so So there's something about that idea of of being gifted something, but being gifted to become a giver, a gift-er um in return. and so and and And then again, it goes back to my second question of of part of what I have to do is be able to recognize that I've received a gift.

45:09.71
Nathan Pile
And so I don't know how, you know, I think you just give and you hope people are able to sense and receive the gift. I can't receive it for them.

45:22.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

45:22.74
Nathan Pile
Right. But I can keep offering gifts. I can keep offering blessing in the time that they're here among us. And so that they maybe find and feel and experience unconditional blessing, unconditional love.

45:41.27
Nathan Pile
Okay. Yeah. So I think that's, that's, um, you know, I, obviously I haven't nailed it down yet. I'm still working on my articulation for this, but, um, but I think that that's why you, what your question brute brings up for me.

45:57.43
Nathan Pile
How about you?

45:57.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just, I want to, I want to echo a lot of what you said. But for me, it comes down to, I think that the best way to. um but The question is, how might others receive blessing through us? I think is the answer is if we if we are good at receiving blessing ourselves.

46:19.64
Kevin Shock
and, And it comes back to everything that you said, that receiving blessing shapes us into into who we are. And then it becomes less about, well, these are the things I have to tick off to my to-do list in order to please God or to show other people that I've received the blessing or to be a blessing to others. And it just becomes a part of who we are.

46:41.62
Kevin Shock
I think, I think if we receive blessing and it's blessing that grabs a hold of us and works in us, we cannot help but show others that blessing.

46:57.40
Kevin Shock
And, um, and, and maybe, maybe we do it in, in specific ways by, you know, being generous, uh, giving to them what they need, uh, you know, feeding them when they're hungry, all of the things that we hear about, you know, in, in scripture, uh, maybe it simply just means being a, being a calming presence, uh, being someone uh,

47:23.54
Kevin Shock
People experience the presence and the blessing of the holy just when they're around you. um

47:29.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

47:31.70
Kevin Shock
that That could be part of it, too. Everyone has different gifts that they live into. I think the real blessing of God is that we're free to be ourselves, to be the people that God made us to be.

47:44.38
Kevin Shock
and you know, that, that makes that statement alone makes me wonder as it comes out of my mouth, I think.

47:54.84
Kevin Shock
Why Abram?

47:59.54
Kevin Shock
Why did God call Abram away from everything that he knew? is it possible that everything that Abram knew was holding him back from being the person that God wanted him to be?

48:16.82
Kevin Shock
you know, I mean like why, Why couldn't God make Abram's name great there in the land where he dwelled? in his father's household. Maybe, maybe God couldn't.

48:28.79
Kevin Shock
I mean, or, you know, maybe that wasn't the place. Maybe that wasn't the place that, you know, I've heard those questions before that Abram ends up in Canaan, a promised land, the land that becomes Israel and Judah, um, um, a fertile land, a good land,

48:51.67
Kevin Shock
ah but Abram also came from a fertile land. you know he He came from Ur of the Chaldeans is what what we hear about it in scripture.

48:56.91
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

49:04.50
Kevin Shock
it's, It's the cradle of civilization. It's the fertile crescent. That's where Abram came from. So it's not as though God couldn't have figured out a way to bless Abram there, but, but maybe it was just, maybe, maybe there was too much. What are the, the three things that are named? ah your country, your relatives, and your father's household.

49:27.32
Kevin Shock
Maybe those things would get in the way of Abram becoming who he was intended to be.

49:31.88
Nathan Pile
Intended to be, yeah.

49:33.98
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, I don't know. that's That's me just wondering. That's not, there's no, there's no like biblical scholarship that I've come across that backs that up.

49:46.15
Kevin Shock
I'm just thinking about, um, I'm thinking that this conversation with you, my friend, gets me thinking about um he ah how do I just live into blessing?

49:59.77
Kevin Shock
if, if, If responsibility or the the sense of responsibility is weighing heavy on me, I can't ignore that God put some things in motion so that this is where...

50:15.64
Kevin Shock
I would be. Um, I'm, I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily a a like grand plan kind of person that, you know, well maybe from birth, God intended me to be the Bishop of the Allegheny Synod. I don't think anything like that. um But I have found myself in this process um saying things like,

50:43.29
Kevin Shock
Well, if that hadn't have happened, I don't think I'd be open.

50:48.86
Kevin Shock
Or if that, if that person hadn't said that thing to me to make me think differently about it, I don't know that I'd be open.

50:56.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

50:58.70
Kevin Shock
there's, There's lots of kind of stuff like that.

51:01.49
Nathan Pile
Of seeing God's blessings, like being able to look back and, and retrace and make those connections.

51:03.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

51:07.45
Nathan Pile
Sure.

51:07.67
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right.

51:08.82
Nathan Pile
Sure.

51:09.06
Kevin Shock
And, and not, not just in a sense of like God was getting all the things in order to make sure this would happen. Not in that sense, but in a sense of I just kept seeing signs of the blessing.

51:21.27
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

51:23.99
Kevin Shock
And really, that's what, you know, talking to talking to some, having some conversations right before Senate Assembly, thinking about, um,

51:36.31
Kevin Shock
That's how I knew I was open because I had seen blessing. And it had nothing to do necessarily for me in my mind. It had nothing to do with certain gifts I possessed or, or, um, you know, ah a sense of, uh, uh, obligation or, or call to a specific thing. It was, it would, I was open because someone pointed out, a, ah, a mentor pointed out to me, I was able to say,

52:06.71
Kevin Shock
Whatever happens, I'm at peace with it.

52:13.82
Kevin Shock
So good. I'm glad we're having this conversation ah because um I need to remember that, well, something happened and I was convinced three months ago that I was at peace with it. So maybe I'm maybe i'm missing out on something here.

52:34.94
Nathan Pile
Well, or the the reminder of that blessing, you know, you know how how do how do you keep that glasses frame

52:35.54
Kevin Shock
for the For the moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

52:47.22
Nathan Pile
um when When it becomes about responsibility to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, I need to find my glasses again.

52:49.02
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

52:54.58
Kevin Shock
Right, yep, yep.

52:54.70
Nathan Pile
I'm not, I'm not looking. I need to be watching for blessing.

52:59.10
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

53:00.58
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

53:01.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and, and honestly, Me, but a lot of other people I know, we don't ever have to look far.

53:08.07
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

53:08.88
Kevin Shock
It's right there in front of us. Yeah. All the time. Yep.

53:16.66
Kevin Shock
All right. Well, anything else about this reading?

53:21.62
Nathan Pile
I don't have anything else.

53:23.45
Kevin Shock
that was, That was a lot to unpack in three and a half verses.

53:23.61
Nathan Pile
You?

53:26.30
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

53:26.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:27.03
Nathan Pile
yeah There are some additional texts out there for those that would like to keep hearing God's word this week. Psalm 121, I lift my eyes to the hills.

53:41.78
Nathan Pile
A familiar psalm to us. my, My help comes from the Lord. Romans chapter 4, verses 1 through 5 and 13 through 17. The promise to those who share Abraham's faith. So Paul, again, pointing back to Abraham's faithfulness in that passage. And then John chapter 3, verses 1 to 17. The mission of Christ to save the world.

54:11.10
Nathan Pile
As always, Kevin, I appreciate your willingness to, to share your reflections and, and how scripture is inspiring you, especially in this time of transition. Thank you for um being authentically um yourself and, and being vulnerable enough to, to share your thoughts.

54:34.81
Nathan Pile
you know, where, where you're at and where this passage, um, kind of strikes you at that. Again, it's a powerful, um, I think as, uh, for, all of us as, um, disciples, it's helpful to have other disciples share, share how they see,

54:54.42
Nathan Pile
um God in the world and this idea of of blessing and and even sometimes the responsibility that we can feel that comes with it.

55:06.23
Nathan Pile
um I just thank you for sharing that bringing it to light and being authentically yourself.

55:15.03
Kevin Shock
Well, this is, again, I'm, I'm not able to do that without the gift of the Spirit and people and Scripture that the Spirit sends in my path. So that's,

55:31.12
Kevin Shock
you're you're you're a part of this process.

55:33.46
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure, sure.

55:33.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

55:37.11
Nathan Pile
We know each other well enough to be able to ask each other questions, and I appreciate that you that we continue that practice.

55:41.37
Kevin Shock
We do, yep. Yep.

55:44.44
Nathan Pile
um And for all of you listening, we encourage your questions for us. um ah We look forward to ah ah the next time when we can share our reflections of Scripture together. We hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

55:59.29
Nathan Pile
Grace to you.

56:00.82
Kevin Shock
And peace.