S4 Episode 17: John 4:5-42

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What barriers need to be knocked down for you to recognize Messiah?

Additional texts:

Exodus 17:1-7

Psalm 95

Romans 5:1-11

Transcript

00:00:00.00
Kevin Shock
I don't know what to say every time.

00:00:03.67
Kevin Shock
Is Nathan already recording? He didn't tell me that you, I know I'm on, I did tell you to go.

00:00:05.94
Nathan Pile
You're on, man. You told me to go.

00:00:09.92
Kevin Shock
And then you started talking about something and I rubbed my eyes and then I look up and there's two seconds already ticked off on the recording.

00:00:15.77
Nathan Pile
if

00:00:19.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, Nathan and I were just having a conversation about how I never know what to say at the beginning of the um podcast. So he just he just let it go. I told him to, but I didn't think he was going to.

00:00:31.27
Kevin Shock
ah So welcome.

00:00:33.65
Nathan Pile
now he doesn't, Now he doesn't want me to listen to him, everybody.

00:00:33.88
Kevin Shock
I,

00:00:36.21
Nathan Pile
He's ah he's like, just ignore what I say when I say it.

00:00:39.45
Kevin Shock
ah No, that's not true.

00:00:41.06
Nathan Pile
I'm like in catch-22 here.

00:00:41.53
Kevin Shock
ah and Well, you're right. I am. I'm putting you in a difficult situation. I'm sorry about that. um But that's why we get together and we talk about scripture so that all that all our difficulties are worked out and we get to see the way that God is working among us.

00:00:57.76
Kevin Shock
So ah welcome, everyone. It's March as you're listening to this. And so I hope that means that spring is here or on the way soon.

00:01:08.70
Nathan Pile
yeah We hope it's on the way soon.

00:01:12.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah, this has been ah this been a good winter. Yeah.

00:01:16.22
Nathan Pile
It has. It has been a good winter.

00:01:18.84
Kevin Shock
um Nathan and I today are looking at quite a long text, ah which is appointed for this coming Sunday in any church that follows the Revised Common Lectionary.

00:01:31.03
Kevin Shock
And the passage is John chapter 4, verses 5 through 42. It's a familiar story, commonly known as the woman at the well.

00:01:44.16
Kevin Shock
Um... But it is also one of the signs. No, it's not a sign. It's one of Jesus's I am state. Well, it's ah yes, it is one of Jesus's I am statements. I knew that there was something that I wanted to lift up about it.

00:02:01.56
Kevin Shock
um So it's a story that you may have heard previously, but also has like a thousand things in it to unpack. So hopefully we'll get to do some of that today.

00:02:12.74
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:02:12.79
Kevin Shock
The translation we're looking at is the Common English Bible. um You can look at that translation and so many others on BibleGateway.com or the Bible Gateway app or using whatever ah version you have nearby and would like to use as you read this text.

00:02:29.78
Kevin Shock
um

00:02:32.76
Kevin Shock
So three questions we'll be looking at. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? and there might be various words, phrases, or images. Toward what is God calling you in this text, and what barriers need to be knocked down for you to recognize Messiah.

00:02:55.10
Nathan Pile
So some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. By the way, firmly, you know, Kevin will have added a year

00:03:09.50
Kevin Shock
Yes, yes, that's, that's in fact.

00:03:09.72
Nathan Pile
um um in this. We missed that ah in the intro. In the intro, we will have missed. We missed that. You should have caught that, that you were going to be a year older again.

00:03:19.42
Kevin Shock
No, that's, I, I told you, I told you that there was something that I have thought about to start the podcast. That was it. I totally, I totally blanked.

00:03:28.38
Nathan Pile
Oh, you totally missed it.

00:03:30.02
Kevin Shock
Yes. As of, as of this episode, well, really the last episode, I'm a year older than you again.

00:03:37.50
Nathan Pile
That's true. That is true.

00:03:39.03
Kevin Shock
A whole year.

00:03:39.26
Nathan Pile
The whole, and now we get to have a fun nine, 10 months of me reminding you of that. So it's always a good, it's always a good 10 months span, nine months span.

00:03:50.71
Kevin Shock
And it's a good time.

00:03:52.59
Nathan Pile
Yep.

00:03:52.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

00:03:53.75
Nathan Pile
So back to the intro, we're firmly in middle age, ah some of us more so than others, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

00:04:05.72
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know,

00:04:21.05
Nathan Pile
what you hear and think from your life experience.

00:04:27.58
Nathan Pile
All right. So um John chapter four,

00:04:36.82
Nathan Pile
he came to a Samaritan city called Sychar, which was near the land Jacob had given to his son, Joseph. Jacob's well was there.

00:04:48.98
Nathan Pile
Jesus was tired from his journey, so he sat down at the wall at the well. It was about noon. A Samaritan woman came to the well to draw water. and Jesus said to her, Give me some water to drink.

00:05:03.48
Nathan Pile
His disciples had gone into the city to buy him some food. The Samaritan woman asked, Why do you, a Jewish man, ask for something to drink from me, a Samaritan woman?

00:05:15.72
Nathan Pile
Jews and Samaritans didn't associate with each other. Jesus responded, If you recognize God's gift and who is saying to you, Give me some water to drink, you would be asking him and he would give you living water.

00:05:25.13
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

00:05:33.69
Nathan Pile
The woman said to him, Sir, you don't have a bucket and the well is deep. Where would you get this living water? You aren't greater than our father Jacob, are you?

00:05:46.30
Nathan Pile
He gave this well to us and he drank from it himself. as did his sons and his livestock. Jesus answered, Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks from the water that I will give will never be thirsty again.

00:06:03.58
Nathan Pile
The water that I give will become, in those who drink it, a spring of water that bubbles up into eternal life. The woman said to him, Sir, give me this water so that I will never be thirsty and will never need to come here to draw water.

00:06:22.42
Nathan Pile
And Jesus said to her, Go get your husband and come back here. The woman replied, I don't have a husband. You are right to say, I don't have a husband, Jesus answered.

00:06:33.78
Nathan Pile
You've had five husbands, and the man you are with now isn't your husband. You've spoken the truth. The woman said, Sir, I see that you are a prophet.

00:06:44.63
Nathan Pile
Our ancestors worshipped on this mountain, but you and your people say that it is necessary to worship in Jerusalem. Jesus said to her, Believe me, woman, the time is coming when you and your people will worship the Father, neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

00:07:02.42
Nathan Pile
You and your people worship what you don't know. We worship what we know because salvation is from the Jews. But the time is coming and is here when true worshipers will worship in spirit and truth.

00:07:18.01
Nathan Pile
The Father looks for those who worship him in this way. God is spirit and it is necessary to worship God in spirit and truth. The woman said, I know that the Messiah is coming, the one who is called the Christ.

00:07:32.92
Nathan Pile
When he comes, he will teach everything to us. Jesus said to her, I am. the one who speaks with you. Just then Jesus' disciples arrived and were shocked that he was talking with a woman.

00:07:48.50
Nathan Pile
But no one asked, what do you want? Or why are you talking with her? The woman put down her water jar and went into the city. She said to the people, come and see a man who has told me everything I've done.

00:08:01.91
Nathan Pile
Could this man be the Christ? They left the city and were on their way to see Jesus. In the meantime, the disciples spoke to Jesus saying, Rabbi, eat.

00:08:12.73
Nathan Pile
Jesus said to them, I have food to eat that you don't know about.

00:08:16.57
Nathan Pile
The disciples asked each other, has someone brought him food?

00:08:21.53
Nathan Pile
Jesus said to them, I am fed by doing the will of the one who sent me and by completing his work. Don't you have a saying, four more months and then it's time for harvest?

00:08:36.22
Nathan Pile
Look, I tell you, open your eyes and notice that the fields are already ripe for the harvest. Those who harvest are receiving their pay and gathering fruit for eternal life so that those who sow and those who harvest can celebrate together.

00:08:51.51
Nathan Pile
This is a true saying that one sows and another harvests. I have sent you to harvest what you didn't work hard for. Others worked hard and you will share in their hard work.

00:09:05.72
Nathan Pile
Many Samaritans in that city believed in Jesus because of the woman's word when she testified, he told me everything I've ever done. So when the Samaritans came to Jesus, they asked him to stay with them and he stayed there two days.

00:09:23.00
Nathan Pile
Many more believe because of his word. And they said to the woman, we no longer believe because of what you said, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this one is truly the savior of the world.

00:09:38.26
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Bishop Kevin shares with us his response to what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text.

00:09:55.28
Kevin Shock
Um, there's too many. Uh, first, first of all, yeah, first of all, um, I,

00:10:00.02
Nathan Pile
that's what I thought I was like, oh, that's a good one. Well, that's a good one All

00:10:09.43
Kevin Shock
I wasn't correct. This is not one of Jesus's I am statements, even though the way it's translated here, um when the woman talks about the Messiah, Jesus says to her, i am. And the way that the CEB renders it is it's capitalized.

00:10:26.34
Kevin Shock
I am the one who speaks with you.

00:10:26.42
Nathan Pile
right.

00:10:29.43
Kevin Shock
um But it's not officially one of Jesus's I am statements.

00:10:35.37
Kevin Shock
statements. Those don't start until I am the bread of life in chapter 6. I had to look that up while you were reading. So anyway, that this, this is just that this is the story of an interaction between Jesus and a woman. I mean, that's what this is.

00:10:51.50
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:10:52.14
Kevin Shock
um Because he doesn't really perform any signs in this either, aside from just being present with the woman.

00:10:58.87
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:11:02.54
Kevin Shock
um I think, yeah, so I think, I think what I'm going to go with is ah I'm...

00:11:13.95
Kevin Shock
I'm taken by the faithfulness of the woman. um

00:11:21.65
Kevin Shock
she, When she finally gets to the point in this conversation, and I appreciate that this is an ongoing, that this is a long conversation. um This isn't like a quick...

00:11:35.61
Kevin Shock
I don't know. This isn't a quick interaction.

00:11:38.43
Nathan Pile
No.

00:11:39.23
Kevin Shock
And, and even though, I mean, it's a long reading in scripture. And even though it's a long reading, it probably still doesn't get to the root of like, like this is probably the entire interaction of like, you know, her going to get the people, the disciples coming back, all that stuff is probably over the course of several hours. So,

00:12:01.01
Kevin Shock
so

00:12:03.84
Kevin Shock
I'm taken by her faithfulness in one that she says,

00:12:11.89
Kevin Shock
I know that Messiah is coming.

00:12:14.90
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:12:15.84
Kevin Shock
And when he comes, he'll teach everything to us. um Jesus kind of opens the door for her to say that, but it but it's, it's a statement of faith.

00:12:27.76
Kevin Shock
And I appreciate that she says that, you know, I mean, Jesus is talking about worshiping, uh, worshiping God and spirit and truth. And, and the woman could, you know, could just respond to that with, okay, great.

00:12:43.32
Kevin Shock
mean, I mean, it her, her response to his statement is another statement of faith and, uh, is, or a statement of faith.

00:12:50.13
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:12:52.61
Kevin Shock
And I appreciate that, that about her. And then, when

00:13:01.18
Kevin Shock
he's Whenever he reveals that that's who he is right after her statement of faith, she, she immediately goes and gets other people to tell them. um And it it actually reminds me of, um this is for me, this is indicative of what we were talking about in our last episode, about what it means to be a blessing to other people.

00:13:27.10
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:13:28.14
Kevin Shock
um there's not you know There are times in the Gospels when Jesus is asked by people who are seeking him, seeking salvation, seeking the kingdom, seeking his blessing, what should I do? um the The woman doesn't bother to ask that.

00:13:45.47
Kevin Shock
like she knows She knows what to do.

00:13:47.46
Nathan Pile
What to do.

00:13:47.59
Kevin Shock
just, Just like she knows the one that she's looking for, she knows what to do.

00:13:48.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:13:53.11
Kevin Shock
And that's ah that's a sign of her great faithfulness.

00:14:02.62
Nathan Pile
well and all of that all her faithfulness in as you and I read this, I would say and, and maybe as others listen that they're but this is a familiar enough a text that that there's all kinds of things that stand out about how she's also an outcast right um For Kevin, and yeah well, I'm including you in this because this is obviously a text that we would preach every three years at least once.

00:14:37.05
Nathan Pile
Kind of a thing. And so again, studying, studying it, but there's lots of little parts of this story. that stand out, at least to me, as ah as, as, as, as I was reading it. And again, seeing the outsider-ness of her.

00:15:02.49
Nathan Pile
um you know that That's part of what John wants us to see and hear, right? So Jesus is sitting at the well at noon.

00:15:12.38
Nathan Pile
Most people aren't going to the well at noon.

00:15:15.04
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:15:15.58
Nathan Pile
especially the women. The women gas it would go to the well maybe in the morning, first thing. Again, were we're along the, the warm area of the planet here.

00:15:31.74
Nathan Pile
um the hotter the the longer the day goes, the hotter the day goes. So the coolest part of the day is right away in the morning and at the end of the day in the evening. And so it makes sense to go get water at those times, especially if you're walking up a hill to take for this journey whatever. So this idea of it being noon, I think at least in the commentaries I've read that have taught me how to interpret this passage, there's this idea of she's going when no one else is going to go

00:16:05.85
Nathan Pile
or is planning is made the plan to go when she's not going to run into having to have an interaction with other people that might gossip about her or make her feel, discounted.

00:16:09.08
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:16:19.88
Nathan Pile
and, and we get into why that might be happening with her conversation with Jesus, this lengthy conversation. um and And there's even a part of this of, give me the well, give me the well water, give me the water that you have so I don't have to keep coming back here.

00:16:38.58
Nathan Pile
Like there's a a desire for that. So there's some outsided-ness being told for you know being told in this story from John. And there's the outsiderness between samari- Samaritan and Jewish. And and she...

00:16:59.61
Nathan Pile
points that out pretty quickly herself. And so again, reading the passage, you get the sense that the Jews and Samaritans don't get along. If we read John, we have the story of the Good Samaritan, um I think as well as in this

00:17:22.39
Nathan Pile
gospel. ah So this idea of

00:17:29.09
Nathan Pile
Essentially, the Samaritans believe in God. they just They just don't believe that they have to go to Jerusalem to be where God is.

00:17:41.75
Nathan Pile
um this This well, for instance, is a place where the Samaritans come to be with God. The mountain is a place where the Samaritans come to be with God.

00:17:55.74
Nathan Pile
They don't have to go to Jerusalem. And so there's this break with within the tradition, the Jewish tradition of Samaritans and Jews.

00:18:07.96
Nathan Pile
And so there's yet another reason why there's an insider outsider. Now, Jesus is visiting. Jesus is in the land of the outsiders um

00:18:19.83
Nathan Pile
here on this journey because it's he's in a Samaritan city.

00:18:25.56
Nathan Pile
And it's, I think when I looked on a map years and years ago, it's close to the border, but it's but it's definitely in Samaria. um

00:18:36.47
Nathan Pile
So again, there's, there's ah the insider-outsider language that gets conveyed here. And yet, none of that outsider-iness gets in the way of the woman's faithfulness to do what God would want her to do. She she knows she needs to go and tell other people about who this this guy is, who's who's here, who's up at the well, um and and what he can

00:19:09.59
Nathan Pile
what he can do. And she's trying you know she's trying to guess that, is he a prophet? Are you a prophet? Trying to guess that through their interactions together. but So I think that the those were the things that kind of stuck out to me just about that that the author of John is trying to lay out for us here of

00:19:32.95
Nathan Pile
of who the woman is, who Jesus is. Again, the disciples come back and are surprised that he's talking to a woman. Again, there would have been some

00:19:46.26
Nathan Pile
some part of culture that that wouldn't have happened in a foreign country. um And yet that's

00:19:56.20
Nathan Pile
there's, there's, where're, there's, There's breaking of of of cultural, theological, social boundaries here in this conversation.

00:20:13.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah, um you mentioned ah the worship differences between Samaritans and Judeans. Were there also, were there ethnic differences?

00:20:25.10
Kevin Shock
I mean, were they seen as two different ethnicities or was it mainly in like, bound in worship practice? Do you have a sense of that? I really don't.

00:20:37.62
Nathan Pile
um Well, like if you look at the old maps of the 12 tribes, some Samaria would have been a part of the 12 tribes originally. Now, I don't know if, if

00:20:49.91
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:20:51.93
Nathan Pile
my history of that period of the thousand years between um King David and and Jesus, I'm not good enough about...

00:21:07.51
Nathan Pile
who are the you know though I know there's different armies. I know different armies come in and invade places and take over places. you know Samaria,

00:21:18.42
Nathan Pile
could they have moved in? there In my mind, there would have still been some of the original tribe of Judah in Samaria because they're still believing in God.

00:21:34.51
Nathan Pile
It's not that they're believing in a different God. Um, so there's, so to me, um, there's, there's still at least some, there's still still at least people who are in Samaria who are still connected to the original 12 tribes, um, of Israel.

00:21:38.55
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:21:57.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah, okay.

00:21:58.58
Nathan Pile
So that's the, that would be the only thing, but again, how that looks, you know,

00:22:01.14
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that makes sense.

00:22:03.77
Nathan Pile
you know Are they considered to be Samaritan because

00:22:11.83
Nathan Pile
you know other Samaritans took over this region historically? Yeah, could be. But ah at least originally, when you look at the old maps, where, where Sychar is now, well, not now, but in Jesus' time,

00:22:30.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:31.42
Nathan Pile
That would have been considered part of the 12 tribes. Which ones? I don't know. But it would have been a part of the northern kingdom. Right? It would have been a part of the northern kingdom. and and And I guess I shouldn't say that I don't... like I think, again, my history is... But I'm pretty sure one of the armies that they that the 12 tribes had to deal with was Samaria.

00:22:57.14
Nathan Pile
And so that's why it became... part of Samaria and these people are called Samaritans is because at some point in time the 12 tribes Israel fought Samaria and obviously part of this northern kingdom got taken but again I get, I lose some of that without looking in the the history of each of those Old Testament books to try and replace that and figure that out I lose some of that calendar and what that looks like so

00:23:04.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah. and

00:23:31.61
Nathan Pile
So I don't really have a complete answer for you, but that's what I know.

00:23:34.21
Kevin Shock
Well, no, that's a more complete, but that's, yes, that's that gives us some background at least, sure.

00:23:40.09
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:40.79
Kevin Shock
Yeah. All right, do you want to look at this a second time?

00:23:45.27
Nathan Pile
Yes.

00:23:46.52
Kevin Shock
Okay. From John 4.

00:23:51.58
Kevin Shock
Jesus came to a Samaritan city called Sychar, which was near the land Jacob had given to his son Joseph. Jacob's well was there. Jesus was tired from his journey, so he sat down at the well.

00:24:02.87
Kevin Shock
It was about noon. A Samaritan woman came to the well to draw water.

00:24:06.32
Nathan Pile
Thank you.

00:24:07.29
Kevin Shock
Jesus said to her, "'Give me some water to drink.' His disciples had gone into the city to buy him some food. The Samaritan woman asked, Why do you, a Jewish man, ask for something to drink from me, a Samaritan woman?

00:24:19.80
Kevin Shock
Jews and Samaritans didn't associate with each other. Jesus responded, If you recognized God's gift and who was saying to you, Give me some water to drink, you would be asking him and he would give you living water.

00:24:32.38
Kevin Shock
The woman said to him, Sir, you don't have a bucket, and the well is deep. Where would you get this living water? You aren't greater than our father Jacob, are you? He gave this well to us, and he drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock.

00:24:46.71
Kevin Shock
Jesus answered, Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks from the water that I will give will never be thirsty again. The water that I give will become in those who drink it a spring of water that bubbles up into eternal life.

00:25:01.72
Kevin Shock
The woman said to him, Sir, give me this water so that I will never be thirsty and will never need to come here to draw water. Jesus said to her, Go, get your husband and come back here.

00:25:13.40
Kevin Shock
The woman replied, I don't have a husband. You are right to say, I don't have a husband, Jesus answered. You've had five husbands and the man you are with now isn't your husband.

00:25:24.17
Kevin Shock
You've spoken the truth. The woman said, Sir, I see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you and your people say that it is necessary to worship in Jerusalem.

00:25:35.83
Kevin Shock
Jesus said to her, Believe me, woman, the time is coming when you and your people will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You and your people worship what you don't know. We worship what we know because salvation is from the Jews.

00:25:50.42
Kevin Shock
But the time is coming and is here when true worshipers will worship in spirit and truth. The Father looks for those who worship him this way. God is spirit, and it is necessary to worship God in spirit and truth.

00:26:04.66
Kevin Shock
The woman said, I know that the Messiah is coming, the one who is called the Christ. When he comes, he will teach everything to us. Jesus said to her, I am the one who speaks with you.

00:26:17.53
Kevin Shock
Just then Jesus' says disciples arrived and were shocked that he was talking with a woman. But no one asked, what do you want? Or why are you talking with her? The woman put down her water jar and went into the city.

00:26:29.43
Kevin Shock
She said to the people, come and see a man who has told me everything I've done. Could this man be the Christ? They left the city and were on their way to see Jesus. In the meantime, the disciples spoke to Jesus, saying, Rabbi, eat.

00:26:43.80
Kevin Shock
Jesus said to them, I have food to eat that you don't know about. The disciples asked each other, has someone brought him food? Jesus said to them, I am fed by doing the will of the one who sent me and by completing his work.

00:26:57.58
Kevin Shock
Don't you have a saying, four more months and then it's time for harvest? Look, I tell you, open your eyes and notice that the fields are already ripe for the harvest. Those who harvest are receiving their pay and gathering fruit for eternal life, so that those who sow and those who harvest can celebrate together.

00:27:13.94
Kevin Shock
This is a true saying, the one so that one sows and another harvests. I have sent you to harvest what you didn't work hard for. Others worked hard, and you will share in their hard work.

00:27:27.80
Kevin Shock
Many Samaritans in that city believed in Jesus because of the woman's word when she testified. He told me everything I've ever done. So when the Samaritans came to Jesus, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days.

00:27:42.23
Kevin Shock
Many more believed because of his word, and they said to the woman, We no longer believe because of what you said, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this one is truly the Savior of the world.

00:27:56.80
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:28:01.69
Nathan Pile
um I'm going to give it a simple answer that I think is um is far more complex, though, than the simple answer that I'm going to give.

00:28:14.39
Nathan Pile
So um the answer I, um, I share with you is that um I feel called towards being a spring that bubbles up.

00:28:14.55
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:28:31.67
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:28:33.75
Nathan Pile
And I again, ah, ah you you've already made this connection to last week's reading. um That bubbling up, I think, is about us being a blessing.

00:28:45.94
Nathan Pile
um Giving and being a blessing to others. And so what that you know in, in this story, that is the woman running to town to tell everybody about what she's heard.

00:29:01.62
Nathan Pile
And who she's met. um So that they too might come and learn.

00:29:09.78
Nathan Pile
From the savior of the world. um And so, you know, there's, there's that piece of. um As we drink of the water.

00:29:22.14
Nathan Pile
um It becomes a spring of water that bubbles up. You know. And so being able to think of, you know, so that's, that's the image that, that I feel kind of kind of called towards. it's, It's the image is far simpler.

00:29:39.86
Nathan Pile
oh excuse me. The image is far simpler than I think what is being put before us because essentially the the woman at the well had to, the thing that she was afraid of, the reason she shows up at noon to avoid all of these, to avoid other people she now has to overcome that fear to go and talk to other people in the middle of the town.

00:30:05.98
Nathan Pile
Like Jesus overcomes, helps her overcome her fear. um And so I think that's when I say that it's a bigger thing. Yes, it's still that idea of blessing is still has its source and origin in God.

00:30:21.30
Nathan Pile
um And this conversation sparks that um eternal, spring in the woman so much so that she's able to kind of go and, and overcome the thing that she started her day trying to avoid.

00:30:42.78
Nathan Pile
So, so for me, it's, it's, it's, you know, what, how, how am I listening so that I too,

00:30:54.10
Nathan Pile
am a part of this this eternal spring that Christ brings forth in the world.

00:31:00.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:31:04.44
Nathan Pile
How about you? Toward what are you is, is God calling you in this passage?

00:31:10.64
Kevin Shock
There was a line that really, I, I think I just glanced over it before I read it this time. Look, I tell you, open your eyes and notice that the fields are already ripe for the harvest.

00:31:22.30
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's the other that I, as you were reading that kind of was like, oh, speaking to me. Oh, yeah, here we go.

00:31:28.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. so I, So I think that's it. I think ah opening my eyes and noticing that the fields are already ripe for the harvest. um

00:31:40.49
Kevin Shock
Which I feel there's been a growing sense of that in me. ah but also it's one of those things, like so many things, that in our daily work and life and distractions, it's easy to forget, you know, easy to forget that the fields are ripe for harvest.

00:31:58.14
Kevin Shock
um

00:31:58.77
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:31:59.42
Kevin Shock
People, I'm amazed at how that works, that sentence or that phrase. So Jesus, the woman has already left and gone back to the city to gather people.

00:32:15.35
Kevin Shock
And remember, keeping in mind, this is the woman who went to the well in the middle of the day so that she could avoid people. She goes right back into the town. She's ready she's gathering people. She's telling the people um you know what, what she's experienced there at the well.

00:32:35.54
Kevin Shock
and um And then unbeknownst to the disciples, all this work has gone on.

00:32:43.85
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:32:44.28
Kevin Shock
while they've they've been in town trying to find food and they come back and oh did someone already feed you and, and um, and no, I mean he did and he essentially says he doesn't he doesn't say this but it but it turns out this way that no, I, I fed someone else and now she's going to feed others and um or or to give them a drink from the

00:32:47.41
Nathan Pile
Yeah. And they're all coming here.

00:33:09.14
Nathan Pile
and they're, and they're all, and they're all coming here

00:33:11.45
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so the disciples ignorant of everything that has gone on suddenly, you know, either it's not clear in the story, whether they go into town or, or the people in the city come out to them.

00:33:26.45
Kevin Shock
But, um, but suddenly there's all these people around who are believing in Jesus and being followers.

00:33:32.38
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:33:34.16
Kevin Shock
Um, And thinking about this too, the fields being ripe for harvest and Jesus saying that, you know, there there are those who have sown, others worked hard and you will share in their hard work.

00:33:48.60
Kevin Shock
um I think that that gets easy to forget. You know, we we live in an era where everyone's talking about how the church is dying. um It's getting smaller, which I mean, you know, we know all these things to be true.

00:34:03.00
Kevin Shock
um That doesn't change the reality that the fields are ripe for harvest.

00:34:12.35
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:34:13.06
Kevin Shock
um i People are longing. People are longing for stuff. People for for, for holy, holy things. People are longing for um connection, community,

00:34:30.52
Kevin Shock
um And it's one of those things that the like the values and the systems of our world don't uphold that anymore. um And so if they're going to find it, they're going to find it in the church. or Or the church, whatever the body of Christ looks like.

00:34:49.18
Kevin Shock
I don't mean in a church building necessarily.

00:34:49.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:34:52.09
Nathan Pile
Building.

00:34:52.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:34:53.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Within the community of faith.

00:34:56.43
Kevin Shock
Although I hope, because I'm an institutional church person, I do hope that it that we can um be revived enough and restored enough to welcome people into our church buildings, um regardless of who they are, what they look like, or how they've worshipped before, or whatever it might be, so that they can experience the gift of true community.

00:35:20.87
Kevin Shock
um We might have some work to do that, but and to get to that point. But ah others worked hard and we can share in their hard work.

00:35:32.60
Kevin Shock
And because the fields are ripe for harvest.

00:35:32.91
Nathan Pile
Well,

00:35:38.97
Nathan Pile
it wasn't until you started to talk about this that that the the disciple that that it strikes me that the disciples went to town and came back with food. And the woman goes to town and comes back with people.

00:35:52.06
Kevin Shock
With people. Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:54.17
Nathan Pile
you know And so our only job here, you know we're in Samaria, so our only job is to get food.

00:35:54.22
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:36:03.26
Nathan Pile
And yet that's not really like, there's people who are hungry, who are thirsty for what God is doing in this space and place.

00:36:14.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:17.34
Nathan Pile
And you may not think that that's true, but a woman it just shows you it is, right?

00:36:17.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Any,

00:36:23.05
Nathan Pile
you know The disciples went in with their own preconceived

00:36:30.30
Nathan Pile
notions that we're just walking through this country. So all we need is food here. So, yeah, it's interesting.

00:36:42.65
Nathan Pile
I hadn't thought about it in that way.

00:36:43.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah. it Well, and I hadn't thought about what's, yeah, what's, what's to prevent the disciples from going and telling the people there about this. They come out and see this guy who knows everything we've done.

00:36:53.64
Nathan Pile
It's this guy up here at the well, yeah.

00:36:55.66
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah Yeah.

00:36:59.42
Nathan Pile
said they just all went down. 11 them went down to get food. but

00:37:04.31
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, ah, ah, not, Not to blame them. We're short-sighted, aren't we?

00:37:10.71
Nathan Pile
Sure. so Absolutely.

00:37:11.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:37:11.91
Nathan Pile
Yeah. and not No, I'm I'm not. I'm laughing at them, but I'm laughing at us. Like, oh you know, the church is in a downturn.

00:37:16.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:37:20.06
Nathan Pile
There's not a whole lot we can do. But we know people are hungry for the holy.

00:37:27.06
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:37:27.42
Nathan Pile
We're hungry. for the holy.

00:37:29.93
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:37:31.06
Nathan Pile
Excuse me.

00:37:32.38
Kevin Shock
Bless you.

00:37:34.26
Nathan Pile
So, of course, others are going to be hungry for the holy.

00:37:40.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:37:41.78
Nathan Pile
And how are we short-sighted in that? Yeah.

00:37:44.29
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yep.

00:37:47.10
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:51.32
Nathan Pile
I hate to say, like, are we too comfortable?

00:37:56.47
Kevin Shock
Well, it's weird.

00:37:56.82
Nathan Pile
And so we don't feel, so we don't feel, we're not outsider-y enough. We feel like we've found our, a place to exist in, in the United States.

00:38:09.50
Nathan Pile
Like, as a, again, all of the things you and I talk about, white, middle class, we found we found kind of our our rut and we'll just we'll just stay in our rut. and and And here's a woman who,

00:38:28.47
Nathan Pile
at least culturally, doesn't feel like she fits in in the rut, actually tries to avoid the people that are in the rut because of the way they make her feel.

00:38:40.41
Nathan Pile
And so she's open to, she's more open to something that, um

00:38:45.89
Kevin Shock
Yeah,

00:38:48.97
Nathan Pile
than maybe we are. We're comfortable. Again, this is where I would say we maybe we're too comfortable. I don't know.

00:38:57.97
Kevin Shock
yeah. Yeah, I... um No, I feel like I've seen this in some places in the church and some places in our synod, that when...

00:39:12.37
Kevin Shock
congregations, some congregations get to a point where they lose a pastor or they don't, you know, that like they're discerning a way forward and it's going to force change in the way that they do ministry.

00:39:33.60
Kevin Shock
In some cases, it sparks something new. And I think, I think there's, I think there's something to be said for getting in our ruts.

00:39:44.54
Kevin Shock
and And it's easy to do. It's easy to, I mean, and, and the church has been in a rut for, the you know, the church was in a heavily dug rut for generations and generations.

00:39:55.50
Kevin Shock
You know, I mean, the church was at the center of society for the last 1700 years.

00:40:05.37
Kevin Shock
and, And now we're not anymore. and And part of me wants to say to congregations that are struggling, don't feel bad about the fact that you're struggling because like the the conditions that led us to where we were simply don't exist anymore.

00:40:26.41
Kevin Shock
The momentum is all gone.

00:40:28.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:40:29.54
Kevin Shock
um But what that means is that we now have the opportunity to consider how we do church differently. And differently doesn't always mean complete turnaround from what we have been doing. Differently can just mean something small, a different ah different way of inviting people in, a different way of interacting with our communities.

00:40:52.29
Kevin Shock
I mean, it can be, yeah, it doesn't have to be huge.

00:41:00.91
Kevin Shock
But I think it does have to have a recognition of what we hear in the scripture, that the fields are ripe for harvest. And, you know, I, I understand the struggle of people who say, we don't get any visitors.

00:41:17.93
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, I mean, like, people don't knock on a door, you know, like come and knock on the church door when they're looking for something, for all all kinds of reasons. It's it maybe it wasn't the place they were ever taught that they go to find community.

00:41:33.20
Kevin Shock
Maybe it's a community that has hurt them before.

00:41:37.85
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:41:38.41
Kevin Shock
um I was just real quick, you know, I, ah we, we had a gathering at our house a couple of weeks ago and there were just the, the remnant of us that were left at the end of the night. It was me,

00:41:56.83
Kevin Shock
And then four other people, one being my spouse, one being one of her coworker slash employees, and then, and then two other friends of ours out of that group, I was the one who's involved in organized religion.

00:42:12.66
Kevin Shock
Um, they all have, have been, or have been involved in organized religion and the one The one was kind of like, you know, grew up in a family where it, it was, was, it was important whenever it needed to be important, and then it really wasn't.

00:42:31.79
Kevin Shock
So, like, that was just the momentum there.

00:42:32.95
Nathan Pile
Mm.

00:42:34.70
Kevin Shock
But for the other three people sitting there, my spouse being one of them, they grew up in... um can communities, conditions where they were told, this is the way that you have to do things.

00:42:52.47
Kevin Shock
These are the rules that you live by in order to please God. This is, this is what you're supposed to do. And, and above all, don't think for yourself. And,

00:43:03.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:43:05.08
Kevin Shock
um

00:43:07.70
Kevin Shock
It was Lisa who said in that group, because we were talking about religion. wait I mean, that's the other thing. that Nathan, there the, the fields are ripe for harvest.

00:43:22.04
Kevin Shock
These, you know, ah the, the one guy that was sitting there with us, every time I talked to him, he wants to talk to me about religious stuff. But Lisa said that night, and I don't remember exactly how she said it

00:43:37.91
Kevin Shock
But um she said it in reference, or maybe it wasn't maybe it wasn't even that night, but it might have been the day after. I don't know. it we, We went to church. I think it was the day after we went to church together.

00:43:50.56
Kevin Shock
I asked her to because they were saying at my home congregation, they were saying a prayer for me, um you know, looking ahead to this new office.

00:43:56.60
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:43:59.58
Kevin Shock
And, and you know, and then they had like a brunch afterwards and and Bishop Collins was there and, and, and Steve and Lois Lynn were there and Larry Louder was there.

00:44:11.72
Kevin Shock
And, you know, it, it was just, it was nice. It was amazing. It was a nice community gathering. And Lisa commented afterwards, like she always does when we go to St. Mark together.

00:44:22.58
Kevin Shock
um Those people are so nice there.

00:44:28.43
Kevin Shock
And I think there's a part of her that wants to be part of a community like that.

00:44:34.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:44:35.33
Kevin Shock
But she said to me at one point, and I can't remember if it was Saturday night or Sunday morning. um that essentially it's going to take more than a few polite interactions and nice interactions to undo 18 years of religious trauma at the beginning of her life.

00:45:02.62
Kevin Shock
It broke my heart.

00:45:05.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:45:07.78
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:45:08.38
Kevin Shock
Um,

00:45:11.61
Kevin Shock
and, And she didn't say it like in a, in a, like a nasty way or anything, just like, just factual, like, like, remember, right.

00:45:17.98
Nathan Pile
Sure. I've been hurt. I've been hurt and

00:45:21.33
Kevin Shock
Remember that I grew up having been, having been hurt by the church and not, and not even like, you know, like,

00:45:29.97
Kevin Shock
not even like as abusive as the church can, can be. And, and, and the church kind of scenario, I mean, you know, she grew up going to Catholic school in a very conservative archdiocese. So it could have been much, much worse, honestly, than what it was for her. But, but she was told as an independent young woman, just, just believe what we tell you and don't worry about anything else.

00:45:52.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:45:52.38
Kevin Shock
And, and she couldn't swallow that. And I, I wouldn't have been able to swallow that either. I, I talked to her and I talked to other people about, who grew up in a similar kind of thing, you know, about, um ah you know, that we we always learned in the Lutheran Church about a God of grace and forgiveness. and And then I hear people say back to me, oh yeah, we never heard about that God.

00:46:17.62
Kevin Shock
Like, really? How? ah You know, I, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, ah I'm not, I'm not blaming them or anything.

00:46:21.43
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:46:24.02
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:46:27.08
Kevin Shock
I just, the, the, the how is like, how did the church fail you so bad? But that's, I think that's what a lot of our congregations don't understand is that there are people out here who have been told that, you know, like swallow, drink the Kool-Aid or get out.

00:46:49.56
Kevin Shock
And they chose to get out because all of us would.

00:46:54.01
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:46:54.37
Kevin Shock
All of us would. You know, this woman you see here, Jesus is helping her work through all of her religious trauma.

00:47:07.95
Kevin Shock
and And it happens pretty quickly, but it doesn't happen all that quickly. i mean, it happens quickly because he's Jesus. And it happens quickly because she is so ready to hear what she's been longing to hear.

00:47:23.62
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:47:25.68
Kevin Shock
that That she belongs and salvation has come for her. But we hear we see there's the man-woman stuff.

00:47:31.09
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah

00:47:34.41
Kevin Shock
There's the Jew-Samaritan stuff. there's the You've had many husbands, and now you're with one who isn't your husband stuff. there's you All of this like all the stuff that has done nothing but separate her, separate her, separate her from the love of God.

00:47:42.01
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:47:50.02
Kevin Shock
And now Jesus is saying there's no more barrier.

00:47:56.43
Kevin Shock
I'm here. here.

00:47:58.89
Nathan Pile
right. Yeah.

00:48:00.81
Kevin Shock
I'm the one standing with you. And, and what does she do? She come and see what I've received.

00:48:09.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I, sorry. I went down a road that I didn't anticipate going down, but the more we talked,

00:48:15.13
Nathan Pile
Well, but I think your conversation, your reflection here, and the the question that comes to my lips is, so as we live in community,

00:48:27.83
Nathan Pile
communities of faith, what is it that we, how do we, how do we live out this piece of grace, this piece of of eternal bubbling spring?

00:48:49.78
Nathan Pile
um

00:48:52.60
Nathan Pile
You know, and again, again, it would have to fit our context, right? It has to fit the people that are in our community. so that it's authentic.

00:49:03.53
Nathan Pile
But what is it that we as communities of faith, what do we need to go and listen to in the fields that might help us be a place where people who are

00:49:20.92
Nathan Pile
deeply desiring those communities those places where they encounter the holy um might go and you know you know like that's that's what that's what your conversation here has made me kind of think about as as if the if the fields are ripe how might we sow the soil that we live in as communities so that they could come and, because they're going to need, as as as your own wife has testified, they're going to need more than one experience of kind people, right?

00:50:05.62
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:50:05.74
Nathan Pile
It's not just about being kind. It's about becoming a flourishing community that the community can come and partake when they're ready, as they're ready,

00:50:19.18
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:50:20.12
Nathan Pile
to to what what the seeds that we're going to produce, right? Like if you're thinking, if we're living in this image of of of planting and harvesting, like we as a community need to take care of our our soil, plant the soil well with good fruit so that over and over and over again, people that come and say, they come into the field say, wow, that's a refreshing experience.

00:50:26.04
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:50:50.71
Nathan Pile
I encountered God here. I need to go again. um And recognizing that this isn't a one or two year shift.

00:50:55.66
Kevin Shock
Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:51:00.01
Nathan Pile
it's, it's about, It's about being eternal springs. It's about give, give, give, give over over and over and over and over and over. and over

00:51:15.18
Nathan Pile
That's what you're kind of, your your sharing has kind of helped me to kind of reflect in is is that there's, you know, in a world that is hungry, thirsty for the sacred, for the holy. not the and And so we don't take that as a trophy and hoist it up above our heads, but instead we're we're at work trying to create spaces in our communities where people are able to experience that, recognizing that there's hurt and there's, you know, and this goes back to my phrase of, of um you know, ministry moves at the speed of trust and speed of trust moves at the speed of relationship.

00:51:58.18
Nathan Pile
And, and it's all of that, right? it's It's about relationship building.

00:52:00.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:52:02.54
Nathan Pile
It's about trying to live into the holy so that others can experience the holy. And recognizing that we're going to whack our foot sometimes and, and just really completely screw it up. And that means we have to start over. It takes more work to rebuild that because we'll have made mistakes.

00:52:26.90
Nathan Pile
Somewhere along the line, we think, well, if you want to join our church, then you have to jump through XYZ hoops because we think that's the way it's always been. But a part of this paradigm shift is we're trying to get rid of some of those things that made us the, the, the center of culture, the center of, of, of community life. We felt like there were things about our world and society that we needed that we brought into the church that we probably don't need to be a part of the church.

00:52:56.39
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:00.86
Nathan Pile
So.

00:53:03.43
Nathan Pile
So appreciate the your, your reflection and and again, the way that it might make us think about being the church, about being God's people.

00:53:14.04
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, and I think, I think also related to this, to go back to the text again, is how do we worship in spirit and truth? What does that mean?

00:53:25.02
Nathan Pile
um Right, yes.

00:53:30.68
Kevin Shock
Like, I feel like worship, worshiping in spirit and truth is be the way to let those barriers come down.

00:53:51.45
Nathan Pile
You know, and so we've already kind of moved to the third question, folks.

00:53:54.27
Kevin Shock
we have, we have.

00:53:55.02
Nathan Pile
So we're probably not going to read it for a third time.

00:53:57.62
Kevin Shock
No, no, no.

00:53:57.82
Nathan Pile
um the But we've kind of shifted that direction. the The one thing I'm going to push at a little bit, at Kevin, is from your perspective, um Because that this, you know, four years ago when this started, it was two friends talking. Now I can ask the Bishop of the Allegheny Synod, what does it mean to worship in spirit and truth? That's a very churchy term.

00:54:22.93
Kevin Shock
and Well, well,

00:54:23.96
Nathan Pile
So what does it mean for us to worship and spirit in spirit and truth?

00:54:25.83
Kevin Shock
yeah

00:54:31.54
Kevin Shock
I don't know exactly. Yeah,

00:54:36.40
Nathan Pile
I love that my friend has this, you know, title now that,

00:54:40.50
Kevin Shock
yeah.

00:54:40.66
Nathan Pile
Make some, you know.

00:54:40.93
Kevin Shock
yeah No, I, I mean, I, I don't, I, what I imagine it to be is that there are

00:54:51.26
Kevin Shock
worshiping in spirit and truth is ah not just not just what we do when we gather together in in community. I mean, in the church building. I think it is what happens when we gather together in community. um I think it is being wholly focused on the Word made flesh as God comes to us in Word and Sacrament and as God comes to us in the other people. So that means, worshiping in spirit and truth to me means with as much reverence as we can muster to honor the the the bread and wine that we take, we treat every other human being with that same reverence.

00:55:36.74
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:55:40.75
Kevin Shock
I don't, I don't think worshiping in spirit and truth is about finding the right liturgy or the right form of worship. or, or It's about removing every barrier that exists between human beings and and God.

00:55:55.06
Kevin Shock
and, And Christ is the one that removes every barrier.

00:56:04.41
Kevin Shock
I, And I think, I think we have to ask ourselves questions about, like, are we really focused on Christ in our worship?

00:56:12.70
Kevin Shock
and if we're And if we're really focused on Christ, why why do we not want that person here? Or what, what causes us to experience fear or disdain or something when we see someone else?

00:56:32.06
Kevin Shock
You know, I mean, they're like,

00:56:36.43
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, I think it's, I think it means letting all of all of those human barriers, getting them out of the way, to to have an experience with God in the presence of one another.

00:56:53.88
Kevin Shock
I mean, that that's what I see Jesus doing in this text, is just one by one, he's breaking down those barriers.

00:57:01.50
Kevin Shock
And, and you know, and he says to the woman, Well, how does he put it? yeah He says, he he talks about the, you know, she talks about the mountain ah that,

00:57:18.20
Kevin Shock
you know, there's there's always been this division between his people and her people. And the time is here when true worshipers will worship in spirit and truth. And, and her response to that isn't, well, what does that mean?

00:57:34.87
Kevin Shock
Or what how can I worship God in spirit and truth? Her response is that statement of faith.

00:57:41.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:57:43.00
Kevin Shock
Yeah. it's, It's like, it's all this. I know that we're not supposed to talk to each other because I'm a woman and you're a man. I know that I'm not supposed to share food with you because you're a Jew and I'm a Samaritan. I know that I carry all of this shame because of the husbands that I've had and the one who's not my husband. I know I know all this. I know I know all this. When all that stuff is done away with, I know that Messiah is coming.

00:58:11.87
Kevin Shock
And that's, that's her. That statement of faith is her form of worship.

00:58:18.58
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:58:24.09
Nathan Pile
and And I think our this both your reflection, I also want us to kind of say, I don't think that our ah our community of faith's worship has to be everything for everybody.

00:58:37.38
Nathan Pile
That's why there's so many different communities of faith, right? um A part of the diversity of the church is that I think we have to worship in a way that's authentic to who we are, who who we who are gathered are.

00:58:54.10
Nathan Pile
um

00:58:54.11
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:55.54
Nathan Pile
And so I think that's a part of it. And so it's not, again, picking the liturgy, picking the the hymns, you know all of that. is yes a part of planning our worship but this worshiping in spirit and truth means it's that what we do feeds us as the people of god um and if it's not then then it's probably time with um with your if it if you have a pastor or whoever your worship leaders are to have some conversation about what does that look like um

00:59:32.60
Nathan Pile
Because again, I go back to that image of we have to sow the seeds, right? We have to put the hard work in of, of tending the soil so that there is fruit.

00:59:44.28
Nathan Pile
um And the way that we, as the people of God, um nurture ourselves so that good fruit per you know appears is that we're we're living that out in in a way that has meaning for us. And so it's looking at our practices of, of faith. It's having the yard sale that the paradigm shift is, is opening up to us. you know And it's not just, you're going to do it once and you're done. You're probably going to have to do it and do it and do it and do it and do it. It's just like, it's like growing a garden. Every year you're working on that that soil. Every year you're working to

01:00:27.45
Nathan Pile
to make sure that you're replacing nutrients in the soil so that the soil can provide the fruit that needs to be there. um And so, you know, the word I use a lot is authentic.

01:00:39.90
Nathan Pile
Another word might be intentional. There's things that we need to do to be authentic and intentional in faith formation for ourselves so that we're caring for our community.

01:00:51.32
Nathan Pile
um And those are the people that are coming

01:00:51.84
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:00:55.00
Nathan Pile
and, and that are a part of our community, but then that that group is also then the the people that are are just like the woman going out and and proclaiming, hey, there's a place where I feel connected to the holy, where I feel the presence of God.

01:01:11.18
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:13.66
Nathan Pile
And I invite you to come along. I invite you to come and see. yeah.

01:01:20.79
Nathan Pile
so

01:01:22.45
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yeah. and, and that, And it's not going to be the same answer for every person or every faith community.

01:01:29.92
Nathan Pile
Correct.

01:01:30.20
Kevin Shock
It's going to involve having conversation like the conversation that Jesus has with the woman here.

01:01:37.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah, which are hard, truthful conversations.

01:01:39.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep.

01:01:45.14
Nathan Pile
Like, because there might be things that you do in worship that you're like, why do we do it?

01:01:45.31
Kevin Shock
Yep.

01:01:49.34
Nathan Pile
And maybe asking the why. you know You dig into it and you're like, oh, that makes complete sense. Absolutely, we need to keep that as a part of who we are.

01:01:57.37
Kevin Shock
Right, right, right.

01:01:59.34
Nathan Pile
Or it might be, that doesn't seem like it fits us anymore. um Again, I would say that you'd need to do that with people that have have spent some time doing it.

01:02:03.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

01:02:12.40
Nathan Pile
Pastors, assistants to the bishop, the bishop, people that can help do some of that, that that that have been you know taught the tradition, but it doesn't mean that what we're what we experience isn't valid.

01:02:29.18
Nathan Pile
And so being able to have the conversation together moves us you know moves us in places.

01:02:36.95
Kevin Shock
Well, and, and, and, and we're just talking about worship forms here. it, It may be that those aren't the people we ask.

01:02:41.51
Nathan Pile
Sure.

01:02:45.07
Nathan Pile
It might be. Okay.

01:02:46.52
Kevin Shock
but Maybe we ask the whole community. But I think, I think even beyond worship forms, we're talking about things like,

01:02:56.54
Kevin Shock
you know, what what is it about that hymn that you don't like? um Or bigger questions.

01:03:05.72
Kevin Shock
Why didn't anybody welcome that person who came through the door?

01:03:11.22
Kevin Shock
Like, that's the stuff right there.

01:03:13.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

01:03:16.97
Kevin Shock
I mean, we have we have so much in our ruts. We have so, so much to unpack about the way we do church and who we are as church.

01:03:22.46
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

01:03:26.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah. and, And, like, get unpacking now because the fields are ripe for harvest.

01:03:35.58
Nathan Pile
But I don't think you can just run out into the fields.

01:03:38.74
Kevin Shock
No, no, not no, no, not necessarily.

01:03:44.41
Nathan Pile
No, not necessarily.

01:03:47.70
Nathan Pile
I think there there has to be some, some time where we as the community wrestle with what does it mean to be the community.

01:03:47.95
Kevin Shock
But.

01:03:59.58
Nathan Pile
Otherwise, we're just going to run out into town and get food and come back. And be like, did somebody feed him while we were away?

01:04:05.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. there there're Yes, I agree with that. I also wonder on the other side of the coin, um maybe, maybe we need some people that are go that go out and harvest some folks to teach us how to be community. Yeah.

01:04:26.58
Nathan Pile
Sure, that yet well that would be that would be a ah way of harvesting now, would be going out and saying, um what we're seeking to be

01:04:27.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:04:31.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:04:37.98
Nathan Pile
a richer, more vibrant community. Are you willing and able to help us look at ourselves?

01:04:48.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:52.37
Kevin Shock
Uh, there's, there's just a lot to unpack here.

01:04:54.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah, there it

01:04:55.06
Kevin Shock
There's yeah.

01:04:56.98
Nathan Pile
And we've gone well over our time.

01:04:59.10
Kevin Shock
We have, we have even without reading it a third time.

01:04:59.13
Nathan Pile
So, and we're not even done yet. So.

01:05:02.70
Kevin Shock
All right.

01:05:02.89
Nathan Pile
Hmm. so

01:05:04.83
Kevin Shock
All right. So some other ways, if, if you get through all of your thoughts on this reading, there are some other readings you can look at for this week. Um, one is Exodus 17 verses one through seven. ah talks about the water from the rock in the wilderness. This is Moses striking the rock so the water can come out and flow for the people. Psalm 95, let us shout for joy to the rock of our salvation. That's a good psalm.

01:05:30.52
Kevin Shock
We sing it in morning prayer. It's in our morning prayer service. And then Romans 5, 1 through 11, talks about being reconciled to God by Christ's death.

01:05:42.64
Kevin Shock
Not by where you worship or not by your gender or not by... things like that, but by Christ and Christ alone. Yeah. Well, um we look forward to hearing your reflections on the this story of Jesus and the woman in the well, the woman at the well. And, and as always, Nathan, thanks a lot for this conversation that helps us to be a mirror to one another and, and, and uphold scripture and what we talk about too.

01:06:11.29
Kevin Shock
We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:06:15.77
Nathan Pile
And peace.