S4 Episode 22: Psalm 22

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you remember God’s faithfulness in times of despair?

Additional texts:

Isaiah 52:13—53:12

Hebrews 10:16-25

Hebrews 4:14-16; 5:7-9 (alternate)

John 18:1—19:42

Provisional Readings:

Provisional alternative readings are suggested by the Consultation on Common Texts (CCT). See this blog post from ELCA Worship for more information.

John 19:1-42

Mark 14:1—15:47

Transcript

00:00:01.60
Nathan Pile
WOO!

00:00:04.39
Kevin Shock
Oh, man.

00:00:05.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah, Kevin, it is time. It's time to get started with Tend: a Bible podcast and this bonus episode, right? This is a bonus episode.

00:00:18.42
Kevin Shock
This is a bonus episode. That's right.

00:00:20.73
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's funny to consider Good Friday the bonus episode, but it is.

00:00:21.18
Kevin Shock
yes Yeah, yeah no that's why I hesitated.

00:00:25.46
Nathan Pile
It is a bonus episode.

00:00:25.92
Kevin Shock
yeah it's not, It's not our weekly Sunday episode.

00:00:27.48
Nathan Pile
It's not our weekly Sunday episode, right?

00:00:28.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's right.

00:00:30.38
Nathan Pile
This is a midweek episode. exciting edition

00:00:38.68
Kevin Shock
Another interesting word to use for Good Friday.

00:00:41.27
Nathan Pile
for Good Friday.

00:00:42.78
Kevin Shock
Exciting. Is that what you want to go with, Nathan?

00:00:46.07
Nathan Pile
Well, all right. So, but we are, Kevin and I are excited to be here.

00:00:48.47
Kevin Shock
ah

00:00:50.61
Nathan Pile
That's what's exciting about it.

00:00:51.29
Kevin Shock
Yeah, no, that is exciting.

00:00:51.69
Nathan Pile
So we're excited to be together.

00:00:52.49
Kevin Shock
You're right.

00:00:54.02
Nathan Pile
We're going to do our thing here with ah the Tend podcast. ah Kevin, it is getting to be the end of March, which makes me want to just give a shout out quick for the Tend festival in June.

00:01:11.42
Nathan Pile
So some of you may have attended the Tend Festival in June.

00:01:12.66
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:01:15.26
Nathan Pile
We're beginning to build our slate of speakers. It's very exciting. So mark it on your calendars. And I say that drawing out the word calendar so that I can look up the exact dates on my calendar. ah June 25th, 26th, 27th, 28th. It's the end of June. Last weekend of June, we'll start on Thursday evening, the 25th, and go through Friday or Sunday morning um with worship, and we'll be wrapped up before lunchtime on the 28th. So 25th to the 28th, two days of, of recreation and fellowship and worship.

00:01:54.90
Nathan Pile
and workshops and worship and just conversations, holy conversations around around camp. So consider marking your calendar. Plan to join us for the TEND Festival, June 25th to the twenty eight There'll be more information on the Sequanota website in April.

00:02:17.78
Nathan Pile
As we move, it'll probably be around the 15th of April that we'll have a list of speakers up and and costs and, and all of that jazz so, But it's been a great festival.

00:02:28.83
Kevin Shock
Cool.

00:02:30.29
Nathan Pile
The festival's been great the last couple of years, so we invite you to come and join us.

00:02:34.65
Kevin Shock
Absolutely.

00:02:36.22
Nathan Pile
And now back to our regularly scheduled bonus podcast. episode of 10 to Bible podcast.

00:02:42.50
Kevin Shock
Right. Right.

00:02:44.12
Nathan Pile
ah

00:02:44.32
Kevin Shock
Bonus. So not regularly scheduled, but yes.

00:02:46.23
Nathan Pile
ah Well, we regularly schedule it every year for Good Friday.

00:02:51.58
Kevin Shock
You're right.

00:02:51.90
Nathan Pile
How about that?

00:02:52.08
Kevin Shock
We do.

00:02:52.46
Nathan Pile
Does that work?

00:02:53.30
Kevin Shock
We do. Your annual Good Friday edition.

00:02:54.23
Nathan Pile
All right. Your annual, annual, regular Good Friday. edition of the Tend podcast. ah Today we're going look at Psalm 22. Kevin and i are going to read it from the New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition, NRSVUE.

00:03:13.66
Nathan Pile
ah And we're going to discuss it with our three questions.

00:03:14.50
Kevin Shock
Mhmm.

00:03:16.90
Nathan Pile
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:03:25.08
Nathan Pile
And how do you remember God's faithfulness in times of despair?

00:03:31.06
Nathan Pile
Yeah, definitely um

00:03:35.74
Nathan Pile
definitely not a ah joyous third question. um Though, I'm sure there will be joy in the midst of our sharing.

00:03:47.72
Kevin Shock
I'm sure there will be, because it's... Right. It's just, just being honest about the human condition, but it's also telling truth joyous truth about God.

00:03:50.81
Nathan Pile
Because it's about God.

00:03:53.89
Nathan Pile
Right, right.

00:03:56.34
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:03:56.66
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's just the word despair caught me off guard. I wasn't ready for it.

00:03:58.42
Kevin Shock
and Well, yeah. Well, I...

00:03:59.81
Nathan Pile
I wasn't ready for despair.

00:04:00.73
Kevin Shock
I thought about, I thought about what word to put there. flirted with anxiety and then but didn't, didn't like that word either.

00:04:09.62
Nathan Pile
yeah

00:04:10.08
Kevin Shock
um But reading ah the book, another plug, like Nathan and I are continuing. Well, by the time this episode drops, we will be wrapping up the Lenten book study.

00:04:21.66
Nathan Pile
yeah could be done, Almost done. Almost done.

00:04:25.11
Kevin Shock
But us thinking,

00:04:25.79
Nathan Pile
We'll have one last session. We'll have one last session.

00:04:28.41
Kevin Shock
Yeah, which you can still join if you haven't. But um the, the um the book By Heart, ah one chapter talked about, the chapter on the creed talked about anxiety and Luther's time was normally tied to guilt.

00:04:30.80
Nathan Pile
That's right. Every week is its own thing.

00:04:46.07
Kevin Shock
over your sinfulness and over not being connected to God. And anxiety in our time usually refers more toward, or leans more toward despair or sorrow instead of guilt.

00:05:02.20
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:05:02.65
Kevin Shock
Anyway, despair is the word we're going with.

00:05:04.45
Nathan Pile
Yeah. No.

00:05:07.00
Kevin Shock
God's faithfulness is the word where it is the capital W word we're going with.

00:05:10.62
Nathan Pile
Is the good news is the good news of the sentence.

00:05:11.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yep. Alright, here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated.

00:05:23.99
Kevin Shock
We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

00:05:35.99
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

00:05:48.66
Kevin Shock
Again, as Nathan said, this is Psalm 22 from the NRSVUE.

00:05:57.14
Kevin Shock
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me from the words of my groaning? Oh my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but find no rest.

00:06:12.73
Kevin Shock
Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel. In you our ancestors trusted, they trusted and you delivered them. To you they cried and were saved, in you they trusted and were not put to shame.

00:06:27.35
Kevin Shock
But I am a worm and not human, scorned by others and despised by the people. All who see me mock me, they sneer at me, they shake their heads.

00:06:36.10
Nathan Pile
You said.

00:06:38.33
Kevin Shock
Commit your cause to the Lord. Let him deliver. Let him rescue the one in whom he delights. Yet it was you who took me from the mother's womb from the womb. You kept me safe on my mother's breast.

00:06:52.09
Kevin Shock
On you I was cast from my birth. And since my mother bore me, you have been my God. Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. Many bulls encircle me.

00:07:04.60
Kevin Shock
Strong bulls of Bashan surround me. They open wide their mouths at me like a ravening and roaring lion. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint.

00:07:17.78
Kevin Shock
My heart is like wax. It is melted within my breast. My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws. You lay me in the dust of death, for dogs are all around me.

00:07:32.15
Kevin Shock
A company of evildoers encircles me. They bound my hands and feet. I can count all my bones. They stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes amongst themselves, and for my clothing they cast lots.

00:07:48.98
Kevin Shock
But you, O Lord, do not be far away. oh my help, come quickly to my aid. Deliver my soul from the sword, my life from the power of the dog. Save me from the mouth of the lion.

00:08:01.75
Kevin Shock
From the horns of the wild oxen you have rescued me. i will tell of your I will tell of your name to my brothers and sisters. In the midst of the congregation I will praise you. You who fear the Lord, praise him.

00:08:14.94
Kevin Shock
All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him. Stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel. For he did not despise or abhor the affliction of the afflicted.

00:08:25.91
Kevin Shock
He did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him. From you comes my praise in the great congregation. My vows I will pay before those who fear him. The poor shall eat and be satisfied.

00:08:39.29
Kevin Shock
Those who seek him shall praise the Lord. May your hearts live for forever. All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.

00:08:51.03
Kevin Shock
For dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. To him, indeed, shall all who sleep in the earth bow down. Before him shall bow all who goes down to the dust, and I shall live for him.

00:09:04.48
Kevin Shock
Posterity will serve him. Future generations will be told about the Lord and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, saying that he has done it.

00:09:17.56
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group or another person, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

00:09:28.73
Nathan Pile
Um, it, I, I got in my own thought head as I listened to you here, the I'm poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. Uh, it was the water image. And then my heart is like wax. It is melted within my breast. And I think what, what, um, where my head went, uh, which is not necessarily where the text is at, but it talks about like being poured out as water, but that the heart being waxed,

00:09:58.42
Nathan Pile
um stay separate that from the water. Like if it was poured in the water, the, the heart would still be the heart, right?

00:10:03.64
Kevin Shock
Mm.

00:10:05.87
Nathan Pile
And so like, that's where my kind of, I don't know why I went there, but that's where where my head went as you were reading this was like, here God gets, or here the the

00:10:21.45
Nathan Pile
psalmist in the, you know in, in sharing to God or writing to God, this idea of of all of the pieces of of feeling um

00:10:38.74
Nathan Pile
beat up, broken down, cetera. the My head thought about that the the heart would still be separate from the water. That I'm, you know, I'm poured out like water, but yet my heart, which is melted,

00:10:55.58
Nathan Pile
um like wax, but it it still would be separate from that water composition composition. So like the heart would still be the heart, even in its changed state, the heart would be the heart.

00:11:10.74
Nathan Pile
That's kind of where my, words worth was that that it's something separate, that it's something separate than the rest of me, which is water.

00:11:12.81
Kevin Shock
hmm

00:11:17.27
Nathan Pile
So I just thought that was an interesting, um I don't know how that, I, you know, If that's the intention here, so much as as in my head, I was like, oh that's kind of an interesting um an interesting piece of the that the water is the water in the heart the the the heart could be melted, could be liquidy, could be you know liquefied, but it's still going to be separate because if you pour wax into water,

00:11:50.39
Nathan Pile
unless it's really hot water, it it, you know, becomes hard. If it's hot water, it would still stay liquid, but it would still keep itself separated from the water itself.

00:12:02.00
Nathan Pile
So that's where my, that was my initial thought here of this. And again, I'm not positive that's the, like we don't go in depth about the water and the, the wax here.

00:12:14.15
Nathan Pile
It was just kind of my own, my own kind of reflection of what that looks like.

00:12:14.92
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:12:17.72
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of metaphor in this in this reading, so that's, yeah.

00:12:17.91
Nathan Pile
So,

00:12:21.88
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Throughout, yeah. Throughout this reading.

00:12:25.72
Kevin Shock
yeah So I, I think metaphor any place in Scripture is intended to take your mind to a place maybe not that the writer intends, but intended to open up your imagination about what's going on here.

00:12:40.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:12:41.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:12:44.47
Kevin Shock
um My turn?

00:12:47.83
Nathan Pile
It is your turn.

00:12:48.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:12:48.95
Nathan Pile
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in the text?

00:12:49.02
Kevin Shock
okay ah, I, We read this on Good Friday because this is the Psalm that Jesus begins to quote from the cross.

00:13:01.78
Kevin Shock
um my God, my God why have you forsaken me, I, where I went and I think an important thing to lift up is that um Jesus quotes it because he's Jewish cause he knows it.

00:13:16.79
Kevin Shock
I mean, that's not the only reason he quotes it, but but it's it's the language of him and his people. um And this is not a this is not a heart-lifting, uplifting place to go, but my what struck me or is the next section from where you were.

00:13:35.99
Kevin Shock
when were, When we're looking at this on our screen, the, there are, there are groups of verses that are separated out or there's like a break in between them. And verses 16 through 18 brought to mind for me the Holocaust.

00:13:57.11
Kevin Shock
um For dogs are all around me. A company of evildoers encircles me. They bound my hands and feet. I can count all my bones.

00:14:07.64
Kevin Shock
they scare They stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes amongst themselves, and from my clothing they cast lots. um It was really the I can count all my bones that took me there.

00:14:21.62
Kevin Shock
You think of images that you see from the time that the concentration camps were being liberated and just people who have no muscle mass and no fat on them anymore because they've been starved.

00:14:34.87
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:14:36.67
Kevin Shock
Um, But all of those images bring to mind for me things that happened to the Jewish people, under fascist rule and

00:14:49.75
Kevin Shock
I, so, then what that got me thinking about, too, is that this is there's a connection in this.

00:15:00.93
Kevin Shock
Throughout this whole song, there's, there's movement from. It's, you know, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? And then the psalmist quickly moves into um our ancestors praised you.

00:15:12.79
Kevin Shock
They called out to you and you did this for them. But I'm, I'm apparently not like them. I'm a worm and no human.

00:15:20.11
Nathan Pile
Mm. Mm.

00:15:20.41
Kevin Shock
because I'm still in this situation. and then and then it begins to turn again toward a it moves from lament toward at least an intention of praise, that um a trust in God's faithfulness that I will be delivered from this situation because you delivered the people who came before me.

00:15:46.49
Kevin Shock
And that's who you are. And then it moves at the very end moves into my voice is going to be the voice of like the voice of the ancestors for me.

00:15:58.62
Kevin Shock
I will be an ancestor to someone else who finds themselves in this situation in years to come to a people yet unborn.

00:16:07.90
Kevin Shock
And it just, it makes me think about that this is, I can't make any assumptions about the, you know, the the spirituality around the Holocaust, I'm sure is more complex than I could even begin to fathom.

00:16:21.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:16:22.70
Kevin Shock
um But I do remember having learned about and and fairly recently when Lisa and I went, I talked a few months ago about the exhibit that Lisa and I saw in Cincinnati over over the Christmas holiday.

00:16:37.59
Kevin Shock
about Auschwitz and reminded of how people lit candles, like like made candles out of the small provisions they were giving and and like snuck in contraband and and would pray Sabbath prayers.

00:16:59.32
Kevin Shock
on Friday nights. And, know, I know that wasn't everybody's experience, but for some people it was but like, we this ah this is how we continue.

00:17:05.41
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

00:17:10.04
Kevin Shock
We continue because we remember that we're God's people and we do the things that remind us that we're God's people. And um

00:17:19.86
Kevin Shock
and I'm sure for some people that's what got them through, remembering God's faithfulness. But that, Yeah, I, I guess that's just, yeah, that's where that's where I went.

00:17:35.64
Kevin Shock
That I can count all my bones. And then I looked at those verses around it and thought, oh, this really does feel to me like something that's not as foreign as, or removed as what the psalmist was going through at the time.

00:17:48.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah. It's not 3,000 years ago, but could be, be as recent as, you know, 80 years ago, right?

00:17:53.37
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

00:17:56.82
Kevin Shock
Right. 80 years ago. Yeah.

00:17:59.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:17:59.74
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:18:02.72
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:18:05.27
Nathan Pile
All right, well, let's do it a second time.

00:18:07.26
Kevin Shock
Okay.

00:18:13.98
Nathan Pile
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me from the words of my groaning? Oh, my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer and by night, but find no rest.

00:18:29.62
Nathan Pile
Yet you are holy and thrown on the praises of Israel. In you our ancestors trusted. They trusted and you delivered them. To you they cried and were saved.

00:18:41.69
Nathan Pile
In you they trusted and were not put to shame. But I am a worm and not human, scorned by others and despised by the people.

00:18:53.46
Nathan Pile
All who see me mock me. They sneer at me. They shake their heads. Commit your cause to the Lord. Let him deliver. Let him rescue the one in whom he delights.

00:19:06.74
Nathan Pile
Yet it was you who took me from the womb. You kept me safe on my mother's breast. And on on you i was cast from birth.

00:19:18.23
Nathan Pile
And since my mother bore me, you have been my God. Do not be far from me, for trouble is near, and there is no help, no one to help.

00:19:31.35
Nathan Pile
Many bulls encircle me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me. They open wide their mouths at me like a a ravening and roaring lion.

00:19:45.82
Nathan Pile
I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax, it is melted within my breast. My mouth is dried up like a pot's head and my tongue sticks to my jaws.

00:20:01.33
Nathan Pile
You lay me in the dust of the earth, the dust of death.

00:20:07.00
Nathan Pile
For dogs are all around me. A company of evil doers encircles me. They bound my hands and feet. I can count on all my bones. They stare and gloat over me.

00:20:18.87
Nathan Pile
They divide my clothes among themselves, and for my clothing they cast lots. But you, O Lord, do not be far away. O my help, come quickly to my aid.

00:20:30.23
Nathan Pile
Deliver my soul from the sword, my life from the power of the dog. Save me from the mouth of the lion. From the horns of the wild oxen, you have rescued me.

00:20:41.91
Nathan Pile
I will tell you of I will tell of your name to my brothers and sisters. In the midst of the congregation, I will praise you. You who fear the Lord, praise him. All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him. Stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel.

00:20:58.81
Nathan Pile
For he did not despise or abhor the affliction of the afflicted. He did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him. From you comes my praise to the great congregation.

00:21:13.33
Nathan Pile
My vows I will pay before those who fear him. The poor shall eat and be satisfied. Those who seek him shall praise the Lord. May your hearts live forever.

00:21:27.42
Nathan Pile
All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall worship before him. For dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations.

00:21:38.46
Nathan Pile
To him indeed shall all who sleep in the earth bow down. Before him shall all... shall... Bow all who go down to the dust, and I shall live for him.

00:21:53.64
Nathan Pile
Posterity will serve him. Future generations will be told about the Lord and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, saying that he has done it.

00:22:07.86
Nathan Pile
Kevin, toward what is God calling you in this text?

00:22:16.36
Kevin Shock
Remembrance,

00:22:17.93
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:22:19.55
Kevin Shock
I think. and, And I think it's twofold. I think, I think it's simple remembrance of what God has done and and therefore being engaged in practices that in practices that that urge me toward remembrance, um prayer, scripture reading, um even, even sitting in silence meditation, you know, head clearing kind of stuff, uh, and, and also remembrance for my own. I'm not, um,

00:23:03.64
Kevin Shock
I think remembrance is important, like what I talked about in the first question, that from generation to generation we remember what God has done, but also remembrance in my own lifespan.

00:23:14.30
Kevin Shock
and remembering that there were times when, um, I can't say there was really ever a time where I got to the point where the psalmist is in this psalm.

00:23:25.37
Kevin Shock
Um, but there were times when I was distressed. There were times when I was, um, hurt, when I was frustrated, when I was, you know, when, when things were not going the way that I wanted them to.

00:23:38.97
Kevin Shock
and and maybe even at times got a little blamey toward God. um But um in all of those situations, God remained faithful.

00:23:55.26
Kevin Shock
And it's, it's something that I don't, I don't really have trouble remembering it anymore. But like with anything else, if you don't remember it, you'll forget it. So I want to remember that.

00:24:09.56
Kevin Shock
And I want to engage in practices that urge me toward remembrance.

00:24:16.31
Kevin Shock
I think ah this is a little different than the remembrance we talked about in just the last episode, which dropped yesterday.

00:24:21.69
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Right.

00:24:23.87
Kevin Shock
It's a different kind of remembrance, but um yeah.

00:24:24.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:24:28.28
Kevin Shock
but Or maybe I should say remembering. That's what it, that's what it leads me toward, remembering.

00:24:36.13
Kevin Shock
That's probably a subtle difference, but yeah.

00:24:41.40
Kevin Shock
Uh, what about you?

00:24:42.74
Nathan Pile
Well, I was going to, you named it that that it's a different kind of remembrance.

00:24:57.66
Nathan Pile
and and I guess you gave us a little bit of a, I was just going to say, is could you say more about how it's different?

00:25:06.83
Kevin Shock
Mm.

00:25:08.25
Nathan Pile
But maybe, maybe my, here, let, let me share what my thoughts were. so

00:25:11.48
Kevin Shock
Okay. Hmm.

00:25:12.68
Nathan Pile
So because we don't, you and I, none of us, anybody that's reading along, listening along, we don't live in a vacuum, right? We're not, we're not just looking at this passage. So again, Kevin said earlier that we're finishing up our Lenten discussion. And, and one of the sessions that we had, we talked about the Lord's Prayer. And in that, Luther's, um,

00:25:36.76
Nathan Pile
push for us to pray boldly. um Like that we should be unabashed about praying to God. And there's a part of this that feels like that.

00:25:50.74
Nathan Pile
Like we shouldn't be afraid. um is is kind of Luther's push of of this time of prayer that we shouldn't be, that that that we should be, again, the word I think oftentimes is used is bold. We should be bold,

00:26:07.80
Nathan Pile
with shouting out our prayer requests to God. Um, and, and again, this is, um, well, God's enough. Uh, he talks about the father a lot, that God is a loving father.

00:26:21.00
Nathan Pile
And it even talks about in, in the texts that we're, that we read, um, talks about that even Luther recognizes that not all fathers are good fathers.

00:26:30.91
Nathan Pile
Um, but God, the father is the good father. Um, And so that we should be like children and and feel free to be um

00:26:44.67
Nathan Pile
pleading our case to the loving father. um And so as I read, as I, as, as I read that this time through, there were a couple of different places where I felt that like Luther wants us to not just be that that there's an urgency, but, but to feel compelled two to unabashedly throw our prayers at God, all of them.

00:27:14.78
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

00:27:15.32
Nathan Pile
um and And there's a part of this, I think, from the very beginning where... where where the psalmist feels in despair.

00:27:27.67
Nathan Pile
I think that feels like a ah great way to describe those first two verses of what's there. And, and then also remembering who God is, the faithfulness of God and, and who they are as God's people and this idea of praise. But, but there's also the feeling for me in this of, of make sure that we're, we're,

00:27:51.38
Nathan Pile
were we're throwing those prayers to God. um And, and, and in the, this person in the Psalmist's despair, I think I can't, I get a a flavor of that here of what that boldness is.

00:27:56.83
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:28:09.05
Nathan Pile
that Luther calls us to is to be. Um, and so again, because we've, because I've been reading this other stuff, maybe that sticks out of here a little bit more than maybe ah other times when I've read it, um, which I appreciate. I appreciate that, that piece of, um,

00:28:28.44
Nathan Pile
of in, in the midst of desperation, Luther would say, absolutely go to God with full confidence in prayer. And here there's, I think I sense the desperation, but I also sense, uh, uh, uh, some of that confidence, maybe not throughout the whole thing, but in places that the, this psalmist is still saying, God help me help future generations.

00:28:47.80
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:28:55.06
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:28:58.10
Nathan Pile
kind of a thing. And so, so I think that's where, and and so when, when you were talking about the two kinds of remembrances, like that's a part of, I guess, the remembrance for me that, that when you said it, that, that kind of dinged a bell for me as well of that, that the remembrance is of who God is that that we should be unabashed about um making those requests, whatever they, whatever they are.

00:29:20.24
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

00:29:25.41
Nathan Pile
yeah.

00:29:25.62
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

00:29:28.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's, um, that's interesting. And I think, um, I like the way that you say it, that this is about, um, well, I don't, ah well, you know, I don't, I don't want to put words in your mouth. What, what I heard in what you're saying is um is not a um

00:29:54.39
Kevin Shock
not, not a word to people who are in distress or despair of oh, don't worry about it. God's going to work everything out. I did not hear that in what you were saying.

00:30:07.38
Nathan Pile
Correct.

00:30:07.74
Kevin Shock
What, ah how,

00:30:07.98
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Good. I'm glad I didn't, I get, I'm glad I didn't communicate that.

00:30:12.79
Kevin Shock
No, but I think, but I think that could but I think using similar words and using the psalm, someone could easily communicate that.

00:30:19.01
Nathan Pile
Oh, I see. Yeah.

00:30:22.79
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:30:23.16
Kevin Shock
and, and, um And I think it's important that you did not communicate that.

00:30:23.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:30:27.10
Kevin Shock
um But I like what you communicated, that um in

00:30:36.28
Kevin Shock
in God's faithfulness or because of God's faithfulness, we do not have to be afraid to act boldly or faithfully. And I think something that ah something that I've learned thinking back on those some of those times that I have, I had thought about when I was kind of blamey toward God, like I said, um, I, I have learned that

00:31:07.03
Kevin Shock
God can,

00:31:13.30
Kevin Shock
whatever's upsetting us, God can handle it. God can take it.

00:31:16.69
Nathan Pile
Right.

00:31:16.98
Kevin Shock
Like we, we can be angry toward God. and, And this Psalm teaches us that right at the beginning, right the way it starts. Why have you forsaken me? Well, God hasn't forsaken you. but, But that's not the thing that you say to somebody who feels as though God has forsaken them.

00:31:32.92
Kevin Shock
that's not That's not the pastoral response. That's not the compassionate response. um And that's not the response that God gives either. Like if, if we want to be angry and give God a tongue lashing, God can handle it.

00:31:46.42
Kevin Shock
And, and I think that like what you said in regards to Luther, boldly isn't um isn't necessarily with confidence or without anger.

00:32:02.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:32:03.54
Kevin Shock
Like,

00:32:04.32
Nathan Pile
Sure. It definitely has emotion in it.

00:32:07.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean of a valid prayer in a time when you're feeling forsaken by God is, God, why have you let this happen? Fix it.

00:32:17.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:19.50
Kevin Shock
I'm not saying that that's, I'm not saying that's entirely a correct prayer, but it's a valid prayer if that's the way that you feel.

00:32:24.67
Nathan Pile
Sure. Sure.

00:32:26.97
Kevin Shock
And it's not a prayer that I don't think accurately refresh reflects you know our understanding of who God is, but it's a valid prayer if that's the way that you feel.

00:32:36.25
Nathan Pile
Because we're feeling it. We're feeling it in that moment.

00:32:37.54
Kevin Shock
We're feeling it. That's right. That's right. And that's exactly it. God, you know, human beings, that's the difference between human beings and God is that sometimes we don't want to deal with other people's emotions.

00:32:40.93
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:32:47.83
Kevin Shock
God can always deal with our emotions. And that's an important thing to remember. Yeah. And that's what, that's what this Psalm teaches that God's emotion or our emotions are that God can,

00:33:04.06
Kevin Shock
God can take our emotions and teach us in our emotions and um and transform us in our emotions, but also um God doesn't wait for us to fix our emotions before God will engage with us.

00:33:21.27
Kevin Shock
God is engaging with us all the time.

00:33:24.96
Nathan Pile
I don't think so.

00:33:25.40
Kevin Shock
No matter how we're engaging with God, I guess, is that that's the mark of God's faithfulness for me. The whole point is that God has not forsaken, even, even when we feel that way.

00:33:37.37
Kevin Shock
God has not forsaken.

00:33:43.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:33:48.54
Kevin Shock
All right. Anything else on the second time through?

00:33:54.14
Nathan Pile
um I don't think so

00:33:55.74
Kevin Shock
All right. Let's read it a third time then. Psalm 22. We didn't read the we didn't read the the subject headings, which aren't... um ah Probably at least some of them are in the... At least the second subject heading is probably in the Hebrew, but not the first one. I don't know.

00:34:18.49
Kevin Shock
I don't have my Hebrew right in front of me here. ah But I'm going to read them just because they're there.

00:34:26.35
Nathan Pile
Sure.

00:34:27.29
Kevin Shock
So Psalm 22, plea for deliverance from suffering and hostility to the leader according to the deer of the dawn, a Psalm of David.

00:34:39.70
Kevin Shock
I think that that according to the deer of the dawn must be like a worship note. That like that's a tune or ah a tune or a form of a Psalm, yeah.

00:34:47.93
Nathan Pile
You think it's, I was gonna say, I think maybe it's a tune. Yeah. okay

00:34:53.69
Kevin Shock
Alright. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but find no rest.

00:35:08.73
Kevin Shock
Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel. In you our ancestors trusted, they trusted, and you delivered them. To you they cried and were saved.

00:35:20.21
Kevin Shock
In you they trusted and were not put to shame. But I am a worm and not human, scorned by others and despised by the people. All who see me mock me. They sneer at me. They shake their heads.

00:35:34.62
Kevin Shock
Commit your cause to the Lord. Let him deliver. Let him rescue the one in whom he delights. Yet it was you who took me from the womb. You kept me safe on my mother's breast.

00:35:46.65
Kevin Shock
On you I was cast from my birth. And since my mother bore me, you have been my God. Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. Many bulls encircle me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me.

00:36:02.10
Kevin Shock
They open wide their mouths at me like a ravening and roaring lion. I am poured out like water and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax, it is melted within my breast.

00:36:15.93
Kevin Shock
My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws. You lay me in the dust of death. For dogs are all around me. A company of evildoers encircles me.

00:36:28.09
Kevin Shock
They bound my hands and feet. I can count all my bones. They stare and gloat over me. They divide my clothes among themselves, and for my clothing they cast lots.

00:36:41.17
Kevin Shock
But you, O Lord, do not be far away. O my help, come quickly to my aid. Deliver my soul from the sword, my life from the power of the dog. Save me from the mouth of the lion.

00:36:54.36
Kevin Shock
From the horns of the wild oxen you have rescued me. I will tell of your name to my brothers and sisters. In the midst of the congregation I will praise you. You who fear the Lord, praise him.

00:37:06.01
Kevin Shock
All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him. Stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel. For he did not despise or abhor the affliction of the afflicted.

00:37:16.60
Kevin Shock
He did not hide his face from me, but heard when I cried to him. From you comes my praise in the great congregation. My vows I will pay before those who fear him.

00:37:27.42
Kevin Shock
The poor shall eat and be satisfied. Those who seek him shall praise the Lord. May your hearts live forever. All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall worship before him.

00:37:42.42
Kevin Shock
For dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. To him indeed shall all who sleep in the earth bow down. Before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and I shall live for him.

00:37:57.29
Kevin Shock
Posterity will serve him. Future generations will be told about the Lord and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, saying that he has done it.

00:38:12.78
Kevin Shock
Nathan, have to pull up the other sheet here. How do you remember God's faithfulness in times of despair?

00:38:27.00
Nathan Pile
um

00:38:30.04
Nathan Pile
So I looked at this question a couple of times as you were reading, trying to think about what that would look like. I think in times of despair, um

00:38:43.48
Nathan Pile
or I should say, um remembering the faithfulness when I'm feeling despair usually takes time. I'm with you when, when,

00:38:56.50
Nathan Pile
what i'm feeling when I'm feeling what I'm feeling, sometimes I don't remember God and I shout out to God, how could you let this happen?

00:39:08.09
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:39:09.11
Nathan Pile
um And so when when those moments of of deep grief, deep sadness, despair occur,

00:39:22.39
Nathan Pile
I think my first, I don't remember, is the best, is the best way I could consider it. um Because my emotions, what I'm feeling is so great.

00:39:35.76
Nathan Pile
I'm just shouting out what I'm feeling.

00:39:40.45
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:39:41.30
Nathan Pile
And, and so it takes a little bit of time for me to remember ah God's faithfulness.

00:39:48.48
Nathan Pile
And, and, and, and as I've, had those feelings of, of despair and grief and sadness. Um, I do remember, like I, I do come around to that, but my initial part of it is that I probably don't remember well when I'm in the midst of all of the emotions of the moment.

00:40:12.09
Nathan Pile
Um,

00:40:15.13
Nathan Pile
And so I think its you know it's, it's, it's family. It's some of the rituals that we have around times of sadness and grief that help me um remember as well. you know The community of faith that gathers for a funeral of a loved one, that that helps me to remember God's faithfulness.

00:40:36.06
Kevin Shock
Hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:40:36.90
Nathan Pile
Yeah. um kind of a thing. And so the gathering, again, I have a, a, a strong family support. And so that family getting together, um you know, I can remember when my grandfather passed away, I was in my 20s.

00:40:54.07
Nathan Pile
And, and he was the first one of that generation to pass away as his father had passed away before him, his father was in his 90s when he passed away.

00:41:04.63
Nathan Pile
But it was a short only a short distance after that that that my grandfather passed away. And being the first, I can remember my large extended family. It was like everybody took three days off.

00:41:16.47
Nathan Pile
And we just spent time together.

00:41:16.59
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:41:18.39
Nathan Pile
Like... like from the day of the death forward through the funeral and the long weekend that came with it. I wasn't able to be with everybody the first two days because I was, there was something at work I was doing and I needed to finish that, that piece.

00:41:33.39
Nathan Pile
It was time sensitive. And so I couldn't be there for the first two days, but they got together and they did work on our family picnic pavilion. They put down carpet, they moved all the furniture out and they put carpet down.

00:41:46.05
Nathan Pile
And like, like that's what they did. And they ate meals together and they were just all together.

00:41:49.50
Kevin Shock
Mmm.

00:41:51.38
Nathan Pile
um And then there was the viewing and, and the, and the funeral and all of that.

00:41:51.62
Kevin Shock
Mmm. Mm-hmm.

00:41:55.39
Nathan Pile
And I got there for those pieces of the of that week. But the rest of the family, We're just present with each other. So, so for me, people is one of, you know, the the gathered community, family, friends, um the the faith community at large, um those, those kinds the actions of the, of the you know, the community of, of, of saints that has gathered together to help me remember because of our love for each other and and sharing that thing, experiencing that love and care, we experienced God's love and care. So that those kinds of things help me to remember. um I'm trying to, you know, there would be also times of, of, of scriptural study in, in times and days after that would help,

00:42:47.83
Nathan Pile
bring hope and, and, and everything that I've learned before, you know, the things that I learned at seminary or in the family or in the congregation um that taught me about God.

00:43:04.21
Nathan Pile
So there was, there was pre-

00:43:09.21
Nathan Pile
you know hearing the story beforehand, I, kind of, what the the psalmist is doing here, repeating the the what what they know the story to be. Well, somebody had to have taught me the story to help me in those moments, those times of despair.

00:43:23.35
Nathan Pile
um And so those things helped me to remember God's faithfulness because I was told the story beforehand. Yeah.

00:43:33.24
Nathan Pile
in, in, in the midst of a blessing in that way. Like it's a blessing after the fact because I'm, I am able to remember it. So I think those would be off the top of my head. Those are kind of my first quick responses to this.

00:43:49.18
Nathan Pile
How about you?

00:43:49.53
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:43:49.70
Nathan Pile
How do you remember God's faithfulness in times of despair?

00:43:55.38
Kevin Shock
Uh, well, before that, I would like to reflect on something you said, um the, uh, in our additional texts, uh, for this good Friday,

00:43:59.58
Nathan Pile
all right.

00:44:07.61
Kevin Shock
I actually looked through our previous podcast episodes to see what we had already discussed because I felt like there was, it's our fourth season. There had to have been one reading.

00:44:17.90
Kevin Shock
And in, and every time I read a reading, Nathan, I think, oh yeah, we talked about this one. We have not talked about this one. I was certain that we had talked about Psalm 22, but I could not find it anywhere in our podcast episode history.

00:44:26.74
Nathan Pile
We talked about Psalm 22. Yeah.

00:44:31.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah. So maybe we talked about it at some point, but also it's just, maybe it's just something that's familiar to me, which is is a good thing to know. um Anyway, one of our other readings is Hebrews 10, 16 to 25.

00:44:51.26
Kevin Shock
We have discussed that one. And that's the one from Hebrews that says, I'm not going to get it right because I don't have it right up in front of me, but um do not neglect... gathering together as is the habit of some, ah but um provoke one another to love and good deeds. And there's something about that Hebrews text that I was mindful of it even while we were reading this Psalm 22. There's something about the the antidote to despair and sorrow and spiraling kind of down this

00:45:33.08
Kevin Shock
unhealthy path of sorrow. I don't want to say, and not that sorrow is unhealthy, but, but spiraling down an unhealthy path whenever sorrow hits. An antidote to that is getting together with people. And so I really appreciate the story of how your family put a pause on everything else in their lives and gathered together after your grandfather's death.

00:45:56.41
Kevin Shock
um That that's, you know, and they got to work and they, and they ate together and they and like, that's, that's the way that God intends us to be.

00:46:07.35
Kevin Shock
Um, we're not made to be solitary and certainly in grief and in pain, we are not made to be solitary.

00:46:12.06
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:46:16.18
Kevin Shock
Um, so I think that, I think that I already answered this question and the answer to my second question when I talked about, um,

00:46:16.72
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:46:27.72
Kevin Shock
remembering, um I mean, that's in this question, but talked about, you know, prayer practices, things like that. the The thing that I neglected to talk about is, I do think that gathering is, that was the that was the element that I missed.

00:46:38.47
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:46:41.75
Kevin Shock
um And even gathering, I don't, it doesn't even have to be in a like in a religious kind of way. Like, like we don't have to gather and pray together, although we certainly can do that.

00:46:55.22
Kevin Shock
I would not say no to that in a time of despair. um

00:47:01.37
Kevin Shock
But even talking with one another, being honest with one another, sharing food and fellowship and resources with one another, that's all stuff that helps,

00:47:16.12
Kevin Shock
helps me to find rootedness in times of despair rooted in us, not just with other human beings, but then also with God, because I think honestly, in some, in some situations, it's easier for me to recognize the God of us, of us all than it is for me to recognize the God of me.

00:47:40.86
Nathan Pile
yeah absolutely yeah absolutely sure yeah

00:47:41.37
Kevin Shock
If that makes sense.

00:47:45.78
Kevin Shock
Like, I think I get a stronger sense when I'm, when I'm, ah what does the psalmist say? Crying out, crying out from my bed. Where is that line?

00:48:00.22
Kevin Shock
Oh, right in the second verse. I cry by day, but you do not answer and by night, but find no rest. When, when I'm in that, so when I'm in that situation, like that's, that's a, ah that's a verse that resonates with me.

00:48:17.02
Kevin Shock
um But it's harder for me, it's harder for that to take hold of me if I am in the presence of other people.

00:48:30.74
Kevin Shock
and And how God works and what God is doing and how God delivers makes more sense to me in the community than it does to me as an individual.

00:48:44.49
Kevin Shock
No.

00:48:47.38
Kevin Shock
So that's kind of where I am with question three. Yeah.

00:48:54.49
Nathan Pile
Well, it's that, it's that um again, as you pointed out here, that when we're by ourselves, it

00:49:04.79
Nathan Pile
the it just seems harder. Right.

00:49:09.50
Kevin Shock
I feel like it does. Yeah.

00:49:11.54
Nathan Pile
And so it's being able to have the

00:49:18.12
Nathan Pile
the community whatever that community looks like um whatever community for you is that that is able to help help us it and and in some ways that connects to what we talked about with Maundy Thursday's episode which is you know, body and blood of Christ is for you all.

00:49:42.42
Nathan Pile
Um, you know, that part of it is the, that, that feels like it connects to the, to all, to, to, to the community.

00:49:42.33
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Yeah.

00:49:51.09
Nathan Pile
Um, and, and, and, and I don't want it to not be said, I think you and I are speaking it with the assumption that the Holy spirit is within the community, right?

00:50:02.49
Nathan Pile
It's in, in each of us. And so as we gather in community, one, two, 30, um,

00:50:03.90
Kevin Shock
Right.

00:50:07.77
Nathan Pile
thirty um however big the community is, that the Holy Spirit is also there working because because that's who God is. So that that that faithfulness that we've talked about is, is in us because of God, because of God's planting that in us, that faithfulness through the Holy Spirit.

00:50:17.35
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:50:29.80
Nathan Pile
And so that's what helps to make it maybe more tangible, you know God more tangible to us because there's, there's, there's more of God in the gathering.

00:50:39.83
Kevin Shock
boom

00:50:46.30
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm glad you lifted that up. I really do feel that way. um

00:50:54.10
Kevin Shock
That...

00:50:58.23
Kevin Shock
ah

00:51:02.84
Kevin Shock
I don't know. there's this, There's a sense for me that there that the holy the Holy Spirit, when God's people are gathered together, and again, it doesn't even have to be like

00:51:16.12
Kevin Shock
an overtly religious thing that's happening.

00:51:18.58
Nathan Pile
Absolutely. Correct.

00:51:19.03
Kevin Shock
I, like, I, I just make the assumption that the Holy Spirit is active in that gathering.

00:51:19.80
Nathan Pile
I agree. Okay.

00:51:28.82
Kevin Shock
I think that's just what my faith informs me toward. And

00:51:36.47
Kevin Shock
but i guess I can say that because I see the Holy Spirit as the one who is the builder of relationships. the Holy Connector, the one who establishes the relationship between us and God, God as a whole, God the Father, um but then also establishes relationship. The Holy Spirit on the day of the Pentecost is the one who comes down, drives the people out of their solitary confinement in the household,

00:52:09.30
Kevin Shock
forces them, not forces them, but, but loosens their tongues, compels them so that they are, they're speaking to one another.

00:52:14.74
Nathan Pile
compels them, compels them, right

00:52:19.65
Kevin Shock
And though there are all these barriers to them, understanding one another, all those barriers are shut, are broken down by the Holy spirit.

00:52:27.90
Nathan Pile
Yeah

00:52:27.96
Kevin Shock
So, so they're driven out. They're compelled to have conversation with other people. Hearts are opened. Relationships form. And by the end of the day, 3,000 people are added to the community.

00:52:43.10
Kevin Shock
And that's and I don't think, I don't think that's a, I don't think that was a one-day event. I think that was a first-day event. And the Holy Spirit has been on the scene since then. i think I think our biggest barrier um to evangelism in this day and age is we don't we keep to ourselves too much.

00:53:08.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

00:53:08.82
Kevin Shock
I think that's a huge barrier.

00:53:11.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah. We just had a young adults retreat here this weekend, this past weekend. And um it was interesting. I, one of the questions I asked him at the beginning of the event was, you know, what I want you to think about a ah moment in recent time that you felt the most alive.

00:53:27.70
Nathan Pile
Like when did it, you know, when we hear that phrase feeling most alive, what, what was happening in that moment then? and, And over and over again, as they were describing what those moments were, I kept saying, was that something you did by yourself or were you with a group? And over and over again, it was, was with a group.

00:53:46.04
Nathan Pile
I was with, you know, and, and they were all sorts of things.

00:53:46.64
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:53:49.95
Nathan Pile
They were all sorts of, of moments that made them feel alive, but it was with others. not Not every single one, but 95% of them were about being within some sort of of community, of connection with others.

00:54:03.83
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:08.63
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:54:09.94
Nathan Pile
um and and And because you're in connections with others, I would say you're in connection with the divine. um So, yeah. So, like, it just really...

00:54:25.05
Nathan Pile
Again, there's, there's something about together, b gathering, that God finds ways to work in us.

00:54:29.73
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:54:33.43
Kevin Shock
Yep.

00:54:36.89
Nathan Pile
Anything else, sir, before we get to the additional texts?

00:54:39.77
Kevin Shock
I don't think so. No, just ah, as we move to additional text, there's a note about additional. You can read them, but there's a note about additional text that I would like to lift up because I didn't talk to you about it before we started recording.

00:54:53.90
Nathan Pile
That's great, because I was like, I wonder what that means. So, so I'll start with the additional texts here.

00:54:55.77
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

00:54:59.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah, go ahead.

00:54:59.22
Nathan Pile
ah We have Isaiah 52, verse to chapter verse the suffering servant. death. hebrews chapter ten sixteen to twenty five the way of god is opened by Jesus's death And Hebrews chapter verse 14 to 16 and chapter 5 verse 7 to 9. Jesus is our merciful high priest.

00:55:26.94
Nathan Pile
And then the gospel would be John the 18th chapter verse 1 through chapter 19 verse 42. And this is the full passion account and death of Christ in John's gospel.

00:55:41.05
Nathan Pile
And then Kevin has a special announcement about provisional readings.

00:55:45.88
Kevin Shock
Yeah, provisional readings. So there's our, um, this, there's a group called the Consultation on call Common Texts that has formed the what with the Revised Common Lectionary, which determines the readings that we use each Sunday and in days throughout the year.

00:56:03.61
Kevin Shock
um There's been a growing sense with the wave of antisemitism that has been going through the world that there are some texts with the ways that they are translated

00:56:11.41
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:56:15.10
Kevin Shock
that can be taken to mean that Jewish people are a problem.

00:56:21.60
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:56:22.14
Kevin Shock
and, And especially when we get into um Holy Week in the Easter season. ah We as Lutherans in the ELC are not supersessionists, meaning that we think that God continues to and will continue to honor the first covenant that was made between God and the chosen people.

00:56:45.91
Kevin Shock
And that um not to use terminology that we don't use, but that other modern contemporary people use, um not quote unquote, big quotation marks, accepting Christ,

00:57:03.03
Kevin Shock
as their Lord and Savior, does not exclude the Jewish people from salvation because God has promised them salvation from day one. Well, not day one, but from ah, from the time of the, the, the, the first covenant with Abraham.

00:57:18.14
Nathan Pile
the first covenant sure

00:57:19.32
Kevin Shock
um And ah so there are things, especially in John's gospel, about... um the Jews were the ones who arrested Jesus, the Jews, the Jews, the Jews. We keep hearing that in, in the NRSVUE. There are other ways to say that. You can say the religious leaders. You can say ah the Judeans, depending on which group is being talked about. um But um the way that our translation stands right now,

00:57:50.30
Kevin Shock
and it's the translation that is most faithful word to word for from the greek but our understanding of what quote unquote the jews means has changed over time and recognizing that jewish people in the past, I mean, we talked, I talked about it in this very episode have been used as scapegoats um the consultation on common text has looked for ways to still lift up the story but avoid some of those texts that are difficult so there are We're going to hear provisional readings in the neck over the next several weeks.

00:58:23.13
Kevin Shock
And provisional readings here, for this, for Good Friday are John 19, which excludes chapter 18, but still talks about the path and but passion and death of Christ. Or reading Mark's version, Mark 14, chapter, er, chapter 14 verse 1 through chapter 15 verse 47.

00:58:47.77
Kevin Shock
So those are two readings. We'll also hear going forward, and beginning with our next episode, um it has been the tradition, and Consultation for common, on Common Text has done this ah for years with Easter, is that Acts is normally the first reading, which means that we do not hear a Hebrew scripture reading throughout the Easter season. And this, this provisional suggestion um takes away the Acts reading and inserts a Hebrew scripture reading in its place.

00:59:20.92
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

00:59:22.04
Kevin Shock
So just more, more options, more alternatives for people who are planning worship and reading texts during these seasons.

00:59:37.34
Nathan Pile
Um, well, Kevin, again, thank you for all of that ah additional, um, thought and fodder again. Um, you're, you're not experiencing, or what you're sharing with us.

00:59:51.63
Nathan Pile
Isn't that we're getting rid of rid of this part, these portions of passages.

00:59:52.44
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:59:57.44
Nathan Pile
It's simply talking about, um, recognizing that in, in our context, it might be better for a reading that is more um more supportive of all of our neighbors.

01:00:13.14
Nathan Pile
um Because our context, our current culture has challenges within it that you and I can't just go out and and erase.

01:00:25.50
Kevin Shock
Right, that's right.

01:00:26.36
Nathan Pile
And so, So thank you for that. Thank you for, um, you know, looking into that and providing that because this is the first year in the four years that we've done this podcast that we've talked about that. So thanks for, oh, is it that that's that new?

01:00:37.15
Kevin Shock
it's a, It's a new thing. Yeah, it's new. Yep.

01:00:42.66
Nathan Pile
All right. so, So things to be in that there. So they'll be doing that year round.

01:00:49.02
Kevin Shock
I think it, I think to start with, it's the places, like I said, the places where it seems where the most problem could arise are Holy Week and Easter season.

01:00:59.81
Kevin Shock
So I think it's starting with that and it may, it may be limited to that.

01:01:00.39
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. May broaden it or be limited to that.

01:01:04.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:01:06.22
Nathan Pile
So, okay. Well, thank you for your reflections today, sir. um Those of you listening, we look forward to hearing your reflections. Feel free to share those with us either in an email or on social media. And, and thanks for joining us as we continue to reflect on the God working in the world through scripture, but in today's world and in culture, working on us.

01:01:35.51
Nathan Pile
We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

01:01:40.02
Kevin Shock
And peace.