S4 Episode 25: Acts 2:14a, 36-41

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How are you encouraged in trying times?

Additional texts:

Psalm 116:1-4, 12-19

1 Peter 1:17-23

Luke 24:13-35

Provisional Readings:

Isaiah 51:1-6

Psalm 34:1-10

Transcript

00:02.21
Kevin Shock
Nathan, one thing that I have found, first of all, welcome to Tend, everyone. I kind of started mid-thought.

00:11.77
Nathan Pile
he Everyone, he looks like he's going to raise the roof. He's got his hands up like he's going to the roof.

00:15.42
Kevin Shock
No, I'm not raising the roof. I'm just, I have something I need to say.

00:18.62
Nathan Pile
Oh, he's got something.

00:19.06
Kevin Shock
what

00:19.46
Nathan Pile
against it Sorry.

00:20.34
Kevin Shock
what One thing that I have found in this new role as bishop is that I am constantly... This is a good thing. First of all, let me say it.

00:31.77
Kevin Shock
I'm constantly

00:34.94
Kevin Shock
reading scripture and thinking of how to present scripture because I'm being asked to do so many different things like in regards to...

00:47.48
Kevin Shock
writing an article for this, or can you come to our Lenten breakfast and do a meditation? Can you preach at this church?

00:54.66
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

00:55.78
Kevin Shock
Can you know, and and like, and like trying to fit this different stuff in, which is great. um But I sometimes get to the point where I'm getting confused about, well, no, I'm definitely at the point where I'm getting confused about what I say when and where.

01:09.88
Kevin Shock
it ah

01:10.01
Nathan Pile
ah

01:11.73
Kevin Shock
it, one thing, One thing I've always liked about this podcast that's been helpful for me is that ah when I'm getting ready to preach... I go back and listen to it, not because I like to hear the sound of my own voice, but, um, but because it helps me remember the things that we've already discussed and where my brain was in the moment.

01:24.97
Nathan Pile
All right.

01:34.01
Kevin Shock
Um, and it makes sermon preparation a little easier for me because I, because I've already done some of the, I've done an hour of the work of it, so to speak.

01:42.52
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure, sure.

01:42.96
Kevin Shock
Um, uh,

01:44.28
Nathan Pile
Well, and it's nice that it's been recorded for you so you can go back and remember what it was that you were thinking about.

01:47.70
Kevin Shock
Exactly. Right, right.

01:49.44
Nathan Pile
Sure. Yeah.

01:50.68
Kevin Shock
Yeah. so um So again, I look forward to, I, I had to look at this prep sheet because even though I put these together earlier this morning, I couldn't even remember what Bible verse we had picked because I just, I feel like it's all over the place sometimes.

02:07.12
Nathan Pile
No, no.

02:07.35
Kevin Shock
So anyway, this is friends, what Nathan and I are going to be talking about today. We're looking at Acts chapter two, verses

02:14.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

02:16.44
Kevin Shock
And then 36 through 41. And the reason it's 14a is just to give some context, because all 14a says is, Peter stood with the other 11 apostles. He raised his voice and declared.

02:29.21
Nathan Pile
All

02:29.37
Kevin Shock
And then in the lectionary, it splits up his speech. So it's just to give, it's just to say...

02:35.51
Nathan Pile
right.

02:36.04
Kevin Shock
14a is just to give context that this is Peter saying this. So anyway, we don't even have to read the whole verse 14a if you don't want to, Nathan. We can just say Peter spoke.

02:47.44
Nathan Pile
That's fine. We can read it.

02:48.02
Kevin Shock
ah Anyway, um we're again reading from the Common English Bible, and we are utilizing three questions today, as we always do, to unpack the text, mine the text a little bit.

03:01.18
Kevin Shock
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how are you encouraged in trying times?

03:18.01
Nathan Pile
Some information about your hosts. We're men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

03:32.12
Nathan Pile
All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of Scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

03:57.68
Nathan Pile
Acts chapter 2.

04:00.82
Nathan Pile
Peter stood with the other 11 apostles. He raised his voice and declared, Therefore let all Israel know beyond question that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.

04:19.86
Nathan Pile
When the crowd heard this, they were deeply troubled. They said to Peter and the other apostles, Brothers, what should we do? Peter replied, Change your hearts and lives.

04:32.34
Nathan Pile
Each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise is for you, your children, and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord God invites.

04:52.15
Nathan Pile
With many other words, he testified to them and encouraged them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. Those who accepted Peter's message were baptized. God brought about 3,000 people into the community on that day.

05:10.55
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or if you're by yourself here, you can listen as Kevin um answers the first question. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text, Kevin?

05:27.16
Kevin Shock
As many as the Lord our God invites.

05:32.15
Kevin Shock
um And we know from reading other parts of scripture, the things that we talk about day in and day out on this podcast, week in and week out, is that God's promise is expansive.

05:47.19
Kevin Shock
God's promise in certain parts of scripture is for the entire universe. And so God's invitation is just as large.

05:59.61
Kevin Shock
um from From the time that God seeks to establish and then reestablish and then reestablish again the nation, the the first covenant people, the chosen people, ah it's it's with a mind to do it to invite all of the other nations into that life as well.

06:17.65
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

06:24.38
Kevin Shock
And... When Jesus comes on the scene, it's to save his own people, but it's also to cry out to all of the other nations.

06:35.16
Kevin Shock
We hear it in nearly every gospel. we certain, like I can point to where we hear it in John and Matthew, like right off the top of my head. I'm sure it's in Luke, and it might be in Mark as well. The Mark is pretty um skeletal in its content.

06:55.35
Kevin Shock
um Mark's just about, let's just tell the story and let the story do what it does. um

07:01.53
Nathan Pile
Right. As fast as I can.

07:03.83
Kevin Shock
As fast as I can. Yeah. I don't think that Mark would be opposed to Jesus calling out to the other nations though. Um, I, so, so the invitation is that big as well.

07:10.89
Nathan Pile
Right. I don't think so.

07:16.09
Kevin Shock
And even we hear reference to it here. This promises for you. So the people that I'm speaking, that Peter is speaking to your children, those who the generations who will come after you and for all who are far away.

07:29.05
Kevin Shock
So that's a reference to the other nations. Um,

07:35.74
Kevin Shock
As many as the Lord our God invites. And think it's important to say that these are Peter's words. If they were words that came directly from God, it might even be, this promise is for everybody.

07:45.33
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

07:50.62
Kevin Shock
Because I'm inviting everybody into this promise. God's first, God's first promise was to all of humankind and creation along with them.

08:04.31
Kevin Shock
So there's no, there's no indication that God's promise ever gets smaller. it appears to get smaller at certain points because God is trying to find the most effective way to build that covenant with all of humankind and creation.

08:26.87
Kevin Shock
Uh, and so God decides at some point to start with one nation and build from there.

08:34.25
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

08:34.55
Kevin Shock
Um, but it's never, it's never as though God doesn't ever say, well, most of humankind is hopeless, but these, this, this group of people here has potential. So I'm just going work with them.

08:48.36
Kevin Shock
That's not what God says. Um,

08:52.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so that ah as many as the Lord our God invites, that's, that's a big, big invi- big, expansive, invitational kind of thing that I see happening there.

09:03.99
Kevin Shock
And I like it.

09:08.57
Kevin Shock
What about you, Nathan? What word phrase or image?

09:11.26
Nathan Pile
Well, ah I appreciate your, um, your thoughts here and that I, the, the expansiveness of God's invitation.

09:22.94
Nathan Pile
Because, of again, the wording, wording of this translation does kind of bring that forth for me. So it was another area that I had heard. the other thing The other couple of words that kind of stuck out to me was, when the crowd heard this, they were deeply troubled.

09:38.23
Nathan Pile
And, um, and actually the, the, that takes me back to Peter's,

09:46.95
Nathan Pile
Peter's words, um, um, which, um, is where my real, is where really where I've but been pondering is why is it that as human beings, um, we,

10:05.69
Nathan Pile
um

10:13.27
Nathan Pile
we call, we call each other into question because we think we need to be mo-, motivated

10:21.62
Nathan Pile
um to get other people to do things. So, so Peter's response, Peter's, Peter's proclamation here is God has made this Jesus whom you crucified, both Lord and King.

10:36.60
Nathan Pile
So like, like there's, there's blame, um in that. And, and, and of course it's going to make people defensive, requesting, like, what is it? that What can I do to be like, I didn't do anything. It wasn't my fault. Um, kind of a thing. And so, well, like I get that Peter, you know, is, is, is trying to help the crowd.

11:06.49
Nathan Pile
But we as human beings get motivated when we get pulled into stuff, right? And so Peter pulls them in this. um Like, it's not my fault. It's your fault. Even though if we go back and hear the other parts of the story, we know Peter denies Jesus three times. Yeah.

11:28.60
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

11:29.88
Nathan Pile
And so yeah this is your fault, Peter is, is saying to the crowd. And the court crowd is like, well, what do we have to do to make it better? And then Peter's like, this is what you have to do.

11:41.24
Nathan Pile
um And yet, because of the forgiveness, the thing that that is being promised, this gift of forgiveness of sins, Peter... benefits from this promise of that, that, that, that is, that he's making to others. He's benefit from it because he he knows about it, I guess, because he's the disciple, disciple. He's heard Jesus talking about forgiveness for some time.

12:06.62
Nathan Pile
um And yet we as human beings feel like the best way that we can convince you is a little bit of of condemnation.

12:19.29
Nathan Pile
you know And and you know we as the church have a history of this in our in in generation after generation, that there's ways that we um have as pastors, as as leaders of the church, that we've um condemned people so that they might turn and, and, and, and seek God in their lives.

12:44.89
Nathan Pile
So, yeah, that was just the, the piece that stuck out to me. You have to do this thing to get forgiveness. And yet, again, as a Lutheran Christian, I don't believe, I believe the forgiveness is always there. It's always God's gift to us. It's not because we've done the turning around. It's just because of who God is, that God is providing that gift of forgiveness. And yet Peter is...

13:06.07
Nathan Pile
is motivating here in his in his declaration to get the people to turn around. and And so it just makes me wonder out loud, you know, why do we do this to each other? Why do we, why do we cast judgment or blame so that we might do it? I guess maybe but the answer to the question why is because it's so effective.

13:38.10
Nathan Pile
but I just don't like that answer.

13:38.44
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, no well, and I've always wondered, ah I've actually wondered why this is effective. um Because I wouldn't respond to this necessarily.

13:49.27
Nathan Pile
Right.

13:51.41
Kevin Shock
and Except,

13:51.42
Nathan Pile
Right.

13:54.20
Kevin Shock
I, Nathan, I really think that the thing that we're missing in the equation here is the Holy Spirit. that There's there's a need for these people to repent.

14:07.96
Kevin Shock
And, and I don't think, I don't think that Peter is necessarily choosing his words well here. But the Holy Spirit is using his words to draw people in.

14:18.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

14:19.13
Kevin Shock
and, And there's something about this notion that you're the you're the ones who crucified him. I don't even know who he's speaking to. We just know the crowds.

14:30.42
Nathan Pile
The crowd, right?

14:30.45
Kevin Shock
ah

14:31.44
Nathan Pile
Yep.

14:31.64
Kevin Shock
um that that makes them say, oh my gosh, like we're this was our fault?

14:33.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

14:36.66
Nathan Pile
we did, We did this? Yeah.

14:38.78
Kevin Shock
and, and, And their response is, then what should we do? what like What should we do to fix it?

14:47.09
Nathan Pile
Right.

14:48.61
Kevin Shock
Which I don't think is a, I don't think that that is an instinctual human response.

14:49.04
Nathan Pile
Right.

14:54.52
Kevin Shock
But I just, I just looked, and Nathan and I have talked previously about how The scholars believe that the, the author who wrote the gospel, according to Luke, is the author who wrote Acts.

15:06.51
Kevin Shock
And they're like two volumes of the same story.

15:07.09
Nathan Pile
right

15:09.78
Kevin Shock
One that happens when Jesus is still around, and one that happens with Jesus' followers after he ascends. And so here's from, here's from the gospel, according to Luke. um Tell me if any of this sounds familiar.

15:25.05
Kevin Shock
Then John said to the crowds who came to be baptized him, you children of snakes, who warned you to escape from the angry judgment that is coming soon? And then jump over the next two verses. The crowds asked him, what then should we do?

15:42.04
Kevin Shock
John the Baptist employs the exact same strategy and has the exact same response.

15:45.36
Nathan Pile
Same, same strategy. Yeah.

15:48.44
Kevin Shock
um Because, because I think we have to consider that the Holy Spirit is there.

15:48.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

15:53.00
Kevin Shock
Like, this is... um It's hard. It's hard for people to own up to wrongdoing.

16:04.90
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

16:06.14
Kevin Shock
And um

16:09.78
Kevin Shock
I have to confess that I'm going to go down a little rabbit hole here. As we record this, this is the, this is the Monday of Holy week. So yesterday, as we record, this was Palm Sunday. And I really, in my preparation for the sermon, I really wanted to be a little more forceful in pointing out the ills of our society.

16:35.13
Kevin Shock
um And saying that, you know, this is like, look at what actually is happening in our world right now. We're, we're okay with bombing children if it will bring our oil prices back down.

16:52.44
Kevin Shock
Like, that seems like a really far-fetched thing to say. But the, but the issue isn't that, oh, you're, you're overplaying it or what whatever. The issue is that we are we're isolated from it.

17:06.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

17:07.64
Kevin Shock
We might see it in the news. I, this, this, the other One of, one of my... ah My favorite non-Christian prophet is Joe Strummer of The Clash. um and And one of their songs off of Combat Rock is called Inoculated City.

17:29.78
Kevin Shock
And

17:32.92
Kevin Shock
it it essentially is a song that talks about the war machine. And how life in the city just continues as the war machine builds and builds. And before you know it, people are more worried about whether the toilets are clean than what is actually, than like all of the things that are going on in the world that they have voted for and that they fund and that they, and and like the violence that they they enact upon one another. But, you know, as long as my toilet's clean, everything's okay.

18:08.79
Kevin Shock
ah Because we become so isolated and, well, I mean, he inoculated is the word that he uses in the title of that song, from all of the evils of the world. And so there is a sense, like, there's a sense that I, there are mornings where I wake up and I listen to the news and I, I don't think this is my fault, but I do think, oh, we're, we're culpable in this.

18:34.86
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:36.54
Kevin Shock
And... I think society needs that. Obviously, the person who wrote the gospel according to Luke and the book of Acts also think that society needs that.

18:48.93
Kevin Shock
Whenever, well well, we'll get into a second question stuff too, but um that yeah, that that there's a problem. there's a, There's a huge, huge problem in humankind. And the answer from our perspective continues to be,

19:10.25
Kevin Shock
Salvation from God in Christ.

19:16.28
Kevin Shock
Salvation, not just being forgiven of the things that we have done, but being freed from them so that we do not do them anymore.

19:26.55
Kevin Shock
And that's, yeah. I, So anyway, that's, I think, yeah, I, you know, I, I agree with everything you say. And, and yet I feel like this, is that like the, maybe the Holy, maybe this is what the Holy spirit has to do to get us to pay attention.

19:47.83
Nathan Pile
Well, I, I agree. um but again, I would imagine that if it was God doing, God would do it differently.

19:58.84
Nathan Pile
That we as human beings are the ones that kind of pit ourselves against each other.

20:06.01
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:06.36
Nathan Pile
or, or the, or, Or that we, you, you know, where I absolutely believe that Peter feels called to declare a message.

20:07.49
Kevin Shock
yeah No, yeah, you're, yeah, you're right about that. You're right. Peter doesn't take any culpability in, in what's going on. Yeah.

20:17.70
Nathan Pile
and And he declares that message, but probably in his in his um brokenness as a selfish, self-centered individual, he blames them with ignoring what he just did himself um kind of a thing.

20:36.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

20:38.25
Nathan Pile
you know, And so that feels very human to me. And I get that, that, that in our, in our own short-sightedness,

20:41.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

20:48.09
Nathan Pile
we get in the way of that. And so that, and I don't, I didn't take that, your, your comments to mean that that you know, that the, I can see how the Holy Spirit and God would use, again, as imperfect vessels to help others recognize that we need to turn.

21:11.86
Nathan Pile
um

21:12.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

21:12.66
Nathan Pile
Again, if it was God's complete action in all of that, I think it would come about differently. And, and um you know maybe I'm wrong because God does use human beings a lot to help share the message. But I think sometimes it our, our brokenness, we're more than happy to judge others and point at them as opposed to saying, I'm in this with you.

21:40.06
Nathan Pile
I too, I too denied Jesus, you know, kind of a thing.

21:46.26
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

21:48.98
Nathan Pile
And maybe that's part of the growth in the Holy Spirit that we might get to the same place to be able to say we're broken in that and Peter's just not in that space yet.

22:00.79
Nathan Pile
I don't know, but yeah, no, I appreciate again, your thoughts and um

22:09.30
Nathan Pile
and then our need to turn towards God. And, and we, we need the Holy Spirit and others to kind of help call us to that.

22:21.78
Nathan Pile
um You know, after all, that's a part of what the season of Lent is about, is and and I think the Week of Holy Week absolutely is about, is to help us see our own...

22:33.30
Nathan Pile
um

22:36.89
Nathan Pile
our own action and brokenness in, in, in our broken relationships and even in our fractured relationship with God. Um, and so we need somebody to help us do that.

22:45.99
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

22:49.77
Nathan Pile
Cause again, we probably don't really want to look at it just as Peter doesn't want to look at it. He wants to blame this crowd as that they're at fault as opposed to kind of looking at ourselves.

23:03.91
Nathan Pile
But I do think we have to be self-critical at times and, and, and recognize our own brokenness and be able to name and live with that and, and then seek forgiveness, ask for forgiveness, turn back to God in that.

23:16.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

23:17.85
Nathan Pile
So I appreciate all of that that you've shared.

23:19.99
Kevin Shock
Yeah. I mean, I, yeah, what I started off by saying, I ultimately didn't, um, I, I, kind of, mmm, uh, there were a couple of reasons that I didn't preach as forcefully as I originally thought I wanted to yesterday.

23:37.40
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

23:38.09
Kevin Shock
One is that I, I go into a place and I'm there one Sunday and then I'm gone.

23:43.51
Nathan Pile
Right.

23:44.44
Kevin Shock
It's not that I didn't point out that there are evils in the world. it's not, It's not that I didn't do that.

23:50.13
Nathan Pile
Sure.

23:50.39
Kevin Shock
um But I also try to do it in such a way to say that we we do take part in them. But I also didn't want to ride the line of I'm becoming preachy like Peter.

24:00.69
Kevin Shock
Like, like make people think that I'm talking about them but not me.

24:01.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Right. Them and not you. Right.

24:05.24
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:05.69
Nathan Pile
Sure.

24:06.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

24:07.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

24:07.42
Kevin Shock
Because I'm a part of it too. and, And I think, honestly, I think that's the... I think that's, that can be a failure in some of the more social justice aligned arms of the church is that it comes across almost too preachy. Yeah.

24:27.08
Kevin Shock
But that's a discussion for another time.

24:29.40
Nathan Pile
For another, yeah, another podcast.

24:29.88
Kevin Shock
Another venue. yeah

24:34.26
Nathan Pile
All right. Um, is

24:36.92
Kevin Shock
Looking at it a second time.

24:39.16
Nathan Pile
that really, we're only on a second time?

24:41.37
Kevin Shock
We are. Mm-hmm.

24:42.41
Nathan Pile
Huh. All right.

24:43.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah, but maybe we've covered a lot of things for the second question already. So, all right, I'm going to go ahead and read from Acts 2. Peter stood with the other 11 apostles. He raised his voice and declared, Therefore, let all Israel know beyond question that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.

25:02.68
Kevin Shock
When the crowd heard this, they were deeply troubled. They said to Peter and the other apostles, Brothers, what should we do? Peter replied, change your hearts and lives each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus christ or the forgiveness of your sins then you will receive the gift of the holy spirit this promise is for you your children and for all who are far away as many as the lord our god invites with many other words he testified to them and encouraged them saying be saved from this perverse generation those who accepted peter's message were baptized

25:35.45
Kevin Shock
God brought about 3,000 people into the community on that day.

25:42.13
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

25:46.58
Nathan Pile
Well, I think, again, you and I have kind of covered a little bit of it. I think the, the, the text calls it change your hearts. I would say engage your hearts might be the word I would use, that we are called to engage our hearts and our lives the ways

25:55.43
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

26:05.53
Nathan Pile
in in the ways of of god And so

26:11.80
Nathan Pile
and And it goes back to all of the stuff that we were just talking about here at the end of this second question or the first question. Um, but, but how do we, how might we with the Holy spirit, um, ourselves in, in living differently and, and being,

26:35.99
Nathan Pile
being the children of God in in the world today. And, and um

26:44.73
Nathan Pile
you know, I think as we engage our hearts, ah to me implicitly, that means that ah we're changing a little bit of who we are to do that, to be,

26:55.51
Nathan Pile
less selfish and more, um, more of a servant. Again, if we're going to be following him in the ways of God, um, we're following the ways of, of Christ. And so, um, Christ was, was more for the, more for the neighbor than for, um, for himself. And so how might we bring about that, um,

27:23.38
Nathan Pile
change of our heart too and being able to to focus beyond ourselves and focus more on the other um as a part of this uh obviously baptism gets wrapped up in that um again to me that's God's work and, and

27:31.55
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

27:43.16
Nathan Pile
not, maybe not for all of us, but for many of us, baptism has already been something that God has already done and claimed us to be. But how do we how do we engage as ah as the people of God? How do we how do we live fully into the ways of God? And that's the piece here that that feels that that's what we're called towards in this, is is to be engaging ourselves in such a way as to live more fully as the disciple God intends. so

28:21.21
Nathan Pile
How about you? Towards what is God calling you in this passage?

28:26.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I think it's something very similar. Um, I, For me, it was more it, it, what I already ah feel like I alluded to in the first question, and that is the, um ah what's the word I want to look for? The holding up a mirror.

28:45.69
Kevin Shock
holding up a mirror to myself, the, the line that, that catches me, that is such a taken out of context is such a, I don't know, such a dangerous line in the hands of Christian people of self-righteous Christian christian people is the um be saved from this perverse generation.

29:07.64
Kevin Shock
um But I mean, if we're looking at the rest of the reading, the the people themselves are the perverse generation. It's, it's ah, it's, it's more like be safe from the times that you have created for yourself. and And here we are. So that it's something about letting holding up a mirror, letting a mirror be held up to myself, seeing where I'm complicit.

29:35.03
Kevin Shock
and, And then like you say, I mean, that... we, You and I have learned that that, that change your hearts and lives

29:49.21
Kevin Shock
phrase in the common English Bible is their jargon for repent.

29:56.61
Nathan Pile
Okay.

29:56.76
Kevin Shock
um That like change your hearts and lives, or I feel like a couple of places change your hearts and minds, but maybe it doesn't. maybe it Maybe it says lives everywhere. That's, that's how they translate repent in this translation.

30:07.87
Nathan Pile
Ok.

30:09.06
Kevin Shock
And, um, so it, it is a holding up a mirror is a, is a repentance kind of move determining where am I wrong in all of this?

30:21.34
Kevin Shock
And, and then, and then how does God to use your language? How does God want my heart and my life to be engaged in making that turnaround?

30:33.59
Kevin Shock
not just for my own sake, but for the sake of the whole generation.

30:36.42
Nathan Pile
The sake of the world. Yeah.

30:39.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

30:45.30
Kevin Shock
So yeah, that's pretty much where I am on this.

30:46.64
Nathan Pile
That's it. Yeah. All

30:47.50
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

30:51.65
Nathan Pile
right.

30:51.76
Kevin Shock
Perverse is also a weird word, isn't it?

30:51.99
Nathan Pile
Oh, it is.

30:53.52
Kevin Shock
Because I think that it, uh, I think that the minds of contemporary people automatically go to like sexual perversion.

30:55.71
Nathan Pile
is.

31:03.28
Nathan Pile
Right.

31:03.48
Kevin Shock
And ah I mean, that's, that's a word that we use in that context. And we, we use perverse in a sexual context, I think, more than anything else. But, but I think misguided,

31:14.17
Kevin Shock
um

31:15.04
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

31:16.58
Kevin Shock
worshiping other gods, trying to think of the gods that I named in my sermon yesterday. Definitely using ah using Paul's letter to the Philippians as a part of it, selfish ambition and conceit are gods that we follow.

31:32.88
Kevin Shock
Wealth is a god that we follow. Comfort is a god that we follow.

31:35.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

31:37.80
Kevin Shock
Convenience is a god that we follow. um and And those are things that people don't think, oh, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be comfortable. ah if it, If it destroys your neighbor, then ah then there is something wrong with it.

31:51.65
Nathan Pile
yeah yeah yeah

31:54.01
Kevin Shock
And I, and I think there's, there's where the perversion comes in, is that we take something, we take something that is horrible and we make it seem not so bad. Just like it's the, but that's the effect of sin.

32:08.28
Kevin Shock
Was it, was it Martin Luther that called sin a distortion? That we, we look at the world that God made, but sin makes it into a distortion so that what we're seeing is not what actually God intends, but what perhaps we want for ourselves.

32:26.87
Kevin Shock
And yeah, and so sin also on the other in the other direction takes something that is and a complete injustice, a travesty, and allows us to think that it's not that bad.

32:47.18
Nathan Pile
Last evening, we watched the Netflix movie Nuremberg.

32:52.22
Kevin Shock
Oh, Lisa and I just watched it on Saturday.

32:54.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah, so and we just watched it last night.

32:56.01
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

32:57.41
Nathan Pile
And so like all of this kind of echoes some of that for me. of

33:05.73
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

33:06.33
Nathan Pile
of

33:06.45
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

33:07.61
Nathan Pile
So for those of you that don't know, Nuremberg is a Netflix movie about the the days leading up to and then the the trial of...

33:20.02
Nathan Pile
the 22 officers of the Nazi regime that the, that the world, the, the first essentially war crimes prosecution of, you know, that had ever been done in the history of the world that we know of.

33:40.18
Nathan Pile
um And so it was like digging into and, and, And of course, at the end of the movie, you're, it's not an uplifting movie.

33:54.33
Nathan Pile
Um, um, uh, and we got done and Angie's like, well, no, I'm really depressed.

33:55.16
Kevin Shock
It is not an uplifting movie.

34:03.42
Nathan Pile
Um, but the end of the movie is where, um, you, still see the, the brokenness of humanity through of, of all of the characters.

34:13.54
Nathan Pile
Right. Um, but in that, um,

34:20.34
Nathan Pile
you hear this the, the statement of um kind of the, the psychiatrist that has been as one of the main characters of the movie kind of saying this can happen to anybody. And of course the other people are like, we don't want to hear this.

34:37.27
Nathan Pile
This can't happen to us. This is just about the bad people, the bad German Nazis. And that's not what the psychiatrist, you know, he's written a book and he's, you know, marketing it and, and somebody essentially tells them why as they're pushing them out the door.

34:52.25
Nathan Pile
um I don't think the best way to market your book is to tell us that this can happen to us um kind of a thing.

34:58.36
Kevin Shock
Right, right.

35:01.05
Nathan Pile
And so but it, but it is, right? It's a part of the human condition. These things that these leaders get caught up in

35:07.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

35:10.07
Nathan Pile
um

35:13.46
Nathan Pile
as being a part of the Nazi, um, Reich  is, is um

35:23.16
Nathan Pile
is things that all human beings have inside of them so um so just as you were talking that kind of popped into my head, I was like oh that that reminder was in that movie um so

35:36.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that, that um I mean, that's a, I didn't know a lot about, I, I've always had a strong interest in World War two and kind of the, you know, the psychology of it all.

35:52.31
Kevin Shock
um But I hadn't really, hadn't really paid attention to anything about the, nor like the Nuremberg trials is not something I'm well read on. and, And I was really intrigued because all of this is a true story.

36:00.34
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

36:04.13
Nathan Pile
Right.

36:04.63
Kevin Shock
as the movie presents it, even down to the psychiatrist and, and the, and the people who were involved in the actual, um, like prosecution and things like that.

36:04.67
Nathan Pile
Right.

36:09.09
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

36:15.32
Kevin Shock
Um, some things that really, ah struck me about that movie, one, the, the amount of officers who,

36:28.82
Kevin Shock
and people in charge of the Nazi party who died by suicide either at the end of the war or at the end of that trial or, or leading up to that trial or at the end of the trial.

36:40.06
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

36:40.82
Kevin Shock
And how,

36:44.63
Kevin Shock
how could you get to that point? Um, or how, I guess, how could you get to the point of, uh, dying by suicide?

36:58.81
Kevin Shock
if you didn't think you were doing anything wrong.

37:02.94
Kevin Shock
and, And maybe, but well, I mean, maybe they didn't think they were doing anything wrong, but also maybe they just knew that ah life wasn't going to work out the way that they wanted it to.

37:13.24
Kevin Shock
And so it was better just to take their own life than... mean, it's it's pervasive, the amount of people who...

37:25.30
Kevin Shock
died by suicide and then, and then murdered their own families for, to the same end.

37:29.92
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

37:32.79
Kevin Shock
Uh, and

37:38.42
Kevin Shock
to talk about the pervasiveness of evil, that, um, the thing that it, it, it tells at the end of the movie, but it's already public knowledge, but I did not know until that night.

37:52.02
Kevin Shock
is that the psychiatrist who spent so much time with Hermann Goering died by suicide in the same way that Goering did. like, It's like that evil took a grasp, took a hold of him, and, and he could not shake it off.

38:09.17
Kevin Shock
And so we're watching this movie. And then the next day we hear like the, the congregations where I went didn't do passion Sunday. They did Palm Sunday.

38:18.83
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

38:18.87
Kevin Shock
So we heard about the, the, the crowds who welcomed him into the Cindy, then becoming the crowds who um were chanting, let him be crucified. And in Matthew's gospel, that's the one where Pilate,

38:36.89
Kevin Shock
proclaims Jesus an innocent man. And then when the people say they still want him to be crucified, he washes his hands and said, my blood, his blood is not on me.

38:49.17
Kevin Shock
And the crowds respond, let his blood be on us and on our children. And that to me is like, why would you say that?

39:00.44
Kevin Shock
Like how, how could, how could, ah but it's mob mentality.

39:05.30
Nathan Pile
Right, right.

39:06.20
Kevin Shock
and And so, like, I think that that's part of what part of what's happening here and in the in the book of Acts is that, like, the people maybe don't see the wrong that they have been doing.

39:22.26
Kevin Shock
and, And I think that's probably true in every generation. that we don't or we downplay the wrong that we do because just to make us feel better about ourselves. I don't know. There's just a lot of that movie and Palm Sunday. it, It's been a lot of meditation on how evil works in the world and things like that. I, Yeah.

39:41.84
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

39:42.62
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Anyway.

39:46.20
Nathan Pile
All right. Well, let's do this a third time.

39:48.69
Kevin Shock
Okay. Yeah.

39:51.80
Nathan Pile
it, Just making sure I'm supposed to read. Yep. Okay. I am supposed to read.

39:54.42
Kevin Shock
Yes, you are supposed to read.

39:58.78
Nathan Pile
Peter stood with the other 11 apostles. He raised his voice and declared. Therefore, let all Israel know beyond question that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.

40:13.27
Nathan Pile
When the crowd heard this, they were deeply troubled. They said to Peter and the other apostles, Brothers, what should we do? Peter replied, Change your hearts and lives. Each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

40:34.78
Nathan Pile
This promise is for you, your children, and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God invites.

40:36.61
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

40:44.69
Nathan Pile
With many other words, he testified to them and encouraged them, saying, Be saved from this perverse generation. Those who accepted Peter's message were baptized. God brought about 3,000 people into the community on that day.

41:02.58
Nathan Pile
Kevin, how are you encouraged in trying times?

41:10.02
Kevin Shock
Uh, I, hmm, well, I don't know. You and I have been having some conversation here today, Nathan, that makes me really wonder how am I encouraged in trying to, um, it's that the promise never goes away and the invitation never goes away.

41:26.16
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

41:26.20
Kevin Shock
That's, that's the thing that gives me an encouragement. And I think that there are, um, I think that as much capacity as there is for evil in this world, there's, um, there's an equal, if not more capacity for good.

41:40.50
Kevin Shock
And I think that I think that God knows that. I think that God made us to be that way. I think that we, we are people who love to get our own way. And we are people who um

41:54.23
Kevin Shock
love to distort the truth sometimes. But when it comes down to it, I think that humankind has a great capacity for good. And when the Holy Spirit gets a hold of us,

42:06.71
Kevin Shock
um we can not only not only can we enact that good, but we can also see that good being enacted throughout the world.

42:16.74
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

42:17.21
Kevin Shock
And certainly there there are venues, channels through which I hear a lot about the evil and the struggle that happens in the world.

42:27.83
Kevin Shock
um But then there are also, I know that there are places I can turn where I can hear about the good. the good that God is doing among humankind and the good that we have the potential for out in the world.

42:42.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

42:44.38
Nathan Pile
Well, and I appreciate, I appreciate your, your bringing that up because I, I agree with you. like, There are definitely times that we need hope.

42:57.53
Nathan Pile
And, and the, the promise that is there, that is, that is, that is ours, is, again, it's one of those places where I do seek hope. Other people...

43:13.11
Nathan Pile
at times when I feel more hopeless, seeing that hope in other people is inspiring.

43:18.85
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

43:20.44
Nathan Pile
on Maybe helps me pull myself back from um

43:27.80
Nathan Pile
from my own hopelessness in some ways, being able to kind of come back around. And, and, and ah, there's something about this text, I think, like my answer kind of lives in that response of of the of the crowd saying, what can we do? What should we do?

43:45.59
Nathan Pile
Like that we have that desire that the over-archingly who much of a humanity that I've encountered when when they hear things have gone wrong or that we've been a part of going the wrong way, our response is how do we make it better?

44:11.18
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:13.08
Nathan Pile
You know, and, and so again, it goes back to that, that and inside of us, there is that, um that design like that we're not trying to hurt each other. And so when we find out that we've hurt each other,

44:29.62
Nathan Pile
How can I make this better? Is that plan? Now, that's also to say that I recognize even we just talked about the Nuremberg stuff. And so recognizing that there can be evil in the world that doesn't feel that way, that doesn't apologize for what they've done.

44:48.38
Nathan Pile
um

44:51.86
Nathan Pile
you know, that part, that part of it, you know, um, it does, but you know, breaks my heart and, but that's not the majority. That's not the, the, um,

45:07.58
Nathan Pile
again, it oftentimes is, it it seems to be the people that seem, um, maybe not to be, um, upset or, or, um,

45:19.97
Nathan Pile
seeking to make it better um are the, are the individuals that are in power or in control um and so but again that that's not the large majority of us the large majority of us are not the people in power and control um and so when there's something that is

45:43.13
Nathan Pile
Brian Friedman, Broken a miss and there's something that we can do about it, we wanted, how can we make this better. Friedman, And so again the, that the, that epic battle between good and evil that exists.

45:58.39
Nathan Pile
in our world. and, And a lot of times I use good, good and the potential for evil, right? That we can choose to do evil. We can choose to fracture the relationship that God has intended for us.

46:11.96
Nathan Pile
That's the thing that gives us free will. But, but recognizing again, that there's that, that overall, the majority of creation is seeking the good of creation, the good of all, um and what that looks like. So, yeah. So I think that would be my,

46:37.43
Nathan Pile
you know, that's where I, when in trying times, I, I need to see that others are also, um, it's, it's nice to know I'm not alone, but with a good heart.

46:52.49
Nathan Pile
I guess, is, you know, not recognize, recognizing that I'm broken and sinful and and all of those things, but um that there are others like me that that say, well, who what can I do?

47:07.70
Nathan Pile
had we How do we do it differently? That there is that desire in the world more than just a Nathan or a Kevin that that are seeking to do that, but that it's

47:24.36
Nathan Pile
That there's a larger, that, that brings encouragement to me, that there's more of us.

48:29.03
Nathan Pile
Well, thank you, Kevin, for your reflections. Why don't we look at the additional texts for this time?

48:35.08
Nathan Pile
We are having some technical difficulties here, those of you that are listening, but I'm going to wrap up our podcast here for today with the additional texts, and I'll sign off, and we will hopefully get this all to you.

49:48.07
Nathan Pile
The additional text is Psalm 116, verses through and to I will call on the name of the Lord. 1 Peter 1, verses 17-23. anew through the living word of God. And Luke verses Eating with the risen Christ is another one of those Easter, post-Easter appearances of Jesus. The provisional readings for this week, Isaiah chapter 51 verses 1 through 6, the enduring foundation of God's salvation, and Psalm 34, 1 through 10, those who seek the Lord lack nothing that is good.

49:36.30
Nathan Pile
As always, I give thanks to Kevin and his reflections as a part of our conversation. And we invite you to share your reflections with us. We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you and peace.