S4 Episode 27: Acts 7:55-60

Translation: New English Translation (NET Bible)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How does forgiveness change us?

Additional texts:

Psalm 31:1-5, 15-16

1 Peter 2:2-10

John 14:1-14

Provisional Readings:

Proverbs 4:10-18

Psalm 119:25-32

Transcript

00:01.53
Kevin Shock
All right, welcome back to Tend, where Nathan and I are primed and ready to talk about Scripture today.

00:08.15
Nathan Pile
Ooo. Ooo!

00:08.44
Kevin Shock
The passage we are looking at is a short reading from Acts, and well, a short... um a short excerpt of a longer reading from Acts, which I'm not sure why this is just the reading that shows up in the lectionary, but it is. So Acts chapter 7, verses 55 through 60, we're looking at the New English translation, the Net Bible, and three questions that we're using today. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

00:35.64
Kevin Shock
Toward what is God calling you in this text? And how does forgiveness change us? That's a small question, Nathan.

00:44.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah. Keeping it, uh, keeping simple, keeping it light.

00:48.65
Kevin Shock
Keeping it light.

00:50.66
Nathan Pile
I like that.

00:51.29
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

00:51.42
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Uh, uh, some information about your hosts were men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. Um, And that's really the big disclaimer.

01:15.42
Nathan Pile
That's what all of that other stuff was about. We think we're all equally able to discern scripture together.

01:22.87
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

01:23.80
Nathan Pile
We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience.

01:37.91
Nathan Pile
Right, Acts chapter 7.

01:44.28
Nathan Pile
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently toward heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. Look, he said, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.

02:00.57
Nathan Pile
But they covered their ears, shouting out with a loud voice and rushed at him with one intent. When they had driv- driven him out of the city, they began to stone him, and the witnesses laid their cloaks at the feet of a young man named Saul.

02:17.72
Nathan Pile
They continued to stone Stephen while he prayed, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. Then he fell to his knees and cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them.

02:31.26
Nathan Pile
When he had said this, he died.

02:37.94
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own.

02:45.86
Nathan Pile
Kevin, that inspirational text.

02:50.37
Nathan Pile
What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this passage? Hmm. Hmm.

02:54.49
Kevin Shock
yeah I'm not sure exactly why I picked this one but I did um

02:59.74
Kevin Shock
so here we are ah the image that strikes me is the people covering their ears and shouting and rushing him with one intent I think is what it says um it is like to me this is exactly ah the

03:11.31
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

03:19.06
Kevin Shock
the the typical image of the child who doesn't want to hear what the parent is saying. And so, you know, covers the ears and either la la la la la so you can't hear or, or shouting having a complete temper tantrum.

03:31.38
Nathan Pile
Right. Right.

03:35.77
Kevin Shock
um

03:36.16
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

03:38.03
Kevin Shock
That, like,

03:39.32
Nathan Pile
Both seeming very juvenile.

03:42.14
Kevin Shock
Yes, yes, yes. Seeming juvenile. But but what is what is behind the the act when adults are doing it is a seeming, ah like, we know that there's a right way, or we know that there's a right thing, but we prefer just to remain in ignorance toward it.

04:05.88
Kevin Shock
And that's what I, that's what I think is happening here when I have that image in my head of the people covering their ears and shouting with a loud voice and rushing at Stephen with one intent.

04:19.25
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

04:19.86
Kevin Shock
um they you know he's He's pointing out to that He says, look And here here comes Jesus, but nope, we, we don't want to see him. We don't want to hear him We don't want have anything to do with him. We're just going to take care of what we came here to take care of and let the chips fall where they may.

04:38.17
Kevin Shock
And to me, that seems like a very, like I said, ignorant, ordinary, ah um non, like, closed off way of operating.

04:54.00
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

04:54.74
Kevin Shock
And yeah, there's, I'm sure that things like that happen in our society too. We would just rather would be ignorant of the things that we, that will make us change our minds or things that, you know, things that are happening that we don't want to see happening.

05:12.73
Kevin Shock
um It's easier for us just to remain ignorant toward them. So um I'm sure it happens. and I can't think of any particular example, but maybe it's not important. I feel like.

05:25.21
Kevin Shock
This image is what jumps out at me. Yeah.

05:28.41
Nathan Pile
Yeah, and, and um your, your thoughts of like we as human beings, even as adult human beings, at times are like, I don't want to, what you're sharing is more than I want to take in, right?

05:29.11
Kevin Shock
What?

05:46.74
Nathan Pile
Like we, we don't probably cover our ears and shout and, but yeah, like you're, you're getting in the way of my will. You're getting in the way of what I want to happen kind of a thing.

05:57.37
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.

06:00.52
Nathan Pile
And so, yeah, no, I, I hear that in this passage. Absolutely. I think for me, the thing that's that just caught me was, was that very first fool of the Holy Spirit. And I know that the in the Greek,

06:16.76
Nathan Pile
um like there's... there's clarifiers in the sentence to kind of make sure that we understand that so that Stephen is completely filled by the Holy Spirit.

06:33.66
Nathan Pile
um Like once the, the, the author of Luke Acts is making sure that we understand thats that Stephen is... is, is wrapped up with the holy the holy has is just kind of gushing out of him um in this first and but it was just the the phrase of full of the holy spirit it's not something um it's not something i think about or talk about um I talk about the holy spirit but i don't talk about it being like full of the holy spirit um

07:10.55
Nathan Pile
And so this this image of Stephen being very, it has a feeling of being very holy, this this moment of Stephen in the midst of what's happening at the beginning of this the these verses here, yeah you know it almost gives you that if you're gonna picture it or put it into some kind of a video, it would be like a you know they'd be like aah music and, and and uh Stephen all kind of uh

07:43.06
Nathan Pile
the wind blowing through his hair and all lit up in an in artificial way that would make us feel like you know here's this image of of the holy spirit that this is this is the image of being filled with the spirit um and and that's you know so that's that's the picture of it right if we're going to picture g uh picture Stephen in our, in our world today that's kind of the ways that that we um envision holy um and full of the holy spirit but here Stephen then kind of goes forward with um

08:22.04
Nathan Pile
Attempting to teach, right? and Attempting to to teach. And so I'm, I'm fascinated by what does it mean to be full of the Holy Spirit? And what would it look like today? Not, not some random picture trying to to make him look holy, but what does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit today? Is that a is that a protester in Minneapolis?

08:49.60
Nathan Pile
Yeah. you know, during this immigration fight with ICE and and and the people of Minneapolis, is it, is it, yeah so like, and lots of other images, you know, kind of fill my head of of what what is, what is full of the Holy Spirit look like today? Is it a,

09:14.74
Nathan Pile
a full sanctuary on Easter and people, you know, singing big booming hymns together. Is that the image of what full of the Holy Spirit looks like today?

09:26.90
Nathan Pile
Is it, um or there's other, you know, scriptural pieces of, of is, is it simply a, a poor widow giving a dollar in the offering plate because that's all she has?

09:44.60
Nathan Pile
like what does full of the Holy spirit look like for us? So that's where my head kind of went this, this, that phrase of full of the Holy spirit, like, what does this look like? What does this,

09:57.94
Nathan Pile
how might, how might it it be envisioned today when it's happening?

10:03.29
Nathan Pile
And, and would we know, would we, the, the video or movie image of full of the Holy Spirit um doesn't feel like what would be the real full of the Holy Spirit.

10:23.22
Nathan Pile
um

10:26.90
Nathan Pile
So that's where my, my head played around with a little bit kind of trying to picture full of the Holy Spirit.

10:30.14
Kevin Shock
yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a yeah that's a that's a good question what full of the holy spirit looks like and we and that's a phrase that you hear in acts over and over and over and over again that that before someone does something, um, I mean that's usually what it is before someone um

10:41.46
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

10:49.51
Kevin Shock
performs a miracle before someone does something that is out of line with with what their character or their personality might be, but in line with what God is doing. that's what That's the line, full of the Holy Spirit.

11:02.94
Kevin Shock
um Yeah, so that that is a good that's a good question. What would that look like? A good thing for us to ponder, I think.

11:08.60
Nathan Pile
Like, and do we, have we stopped looking for the Holy Spirit to be in us? Like, are we looking for the full of the Holy Spirit? Like, I get that in Axis, it would have been a new, a newer thing, right?

11:19.38
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah.

11:19.82
Nathan Pile
So it's the new thing.

11:20.18
Kevin Shock
It was a novel thing.

11:20.78
Nathan Pile
The hot thing was the Holy Spirit has now been given to us kind of thing.

11:21.50
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yep.

11:26.38
Nathan Pile
And so the hot thing. the hot, I don't want to say the slogan because it's not so much a slogan, but it was, it was, it was current. It was what was happening. Like, have we have we stopped seeking, we stopped watching, looking for full of the Holy Spirit?

11:42.01
Nathan Pile
Or do we not know what that looks like anymore? Those are questions that pop up from what you were just saying. So, yeah.

11:49.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, I think the thing with Stephen is what looks like to be full of the Holy Spirit is that he is completely focused on Jesus.

11:59.03
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

11:59.77
Kevin Shock
he He sees Jesus and it might not be as though Jesus, you know, like I think full of the Holy Spirit doesn't necessarily mean that, oh, here comes Jesus popping out of the heavens, descending down to earth again.

12:02.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:11.96
Kevin Shock
I think that Jesus is constantly popping out of the heavens to descend down to earth again. But full of the Holy Spirit means that we're tuned into actually witnessing it happening. We're seeing it. And the other thing, and this will get us onto the next question, maybe, is ah that um Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, asks for forgiveness for the people who are about to kill him.

12:35.75
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:37.72
Kevin Shock
So he's not just focused on Jesus.

12:37.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:39.36
Kevin Shock
He's focused on Jesus's way.

12:42.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

12:43.77
Kevin Shock
I mean, he does what Jesus does in the Gospels.

12:49.53
Kevin Shock
Forgive them, Lord, for they do not know what they're doing. and, And those are Jesus's words. What are Stephen's words as I look at this tab again? Lord, don't hold this sin against them. Yeah.

13:01.43
Kevin Shock
All right. Well, should we look at it a second time?

13:03.96
Nathan Pile
I say let's look at it a second time.

13:05.88
Kevin Shock
Okay. but Stephen full of the holy spirit looked intently toward heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God look he said I see the heavens opened and the sun of man standing at the right hand of God but they covered their ears shouting out with a loud voice and rushed at him with one intent when they had driven him out of the city they began to stone him and the witnesses laid their cloaks at the feet of a young man named Saul They continued to stone Stephen while he prayed, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

13:38.39
Kevin Shock
Then he fell to his knees and cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them. When he had said this, he died.

13:49.53
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

13:53.89
Nathan Pile
Um,

13:57.75
Nathan Pile
I think my, the thing that caught my ear this time as you were reading is, is that word, look that command, um, to be watching, you know, as as we just talked about, um, what does the Holy spirit look like? What, you know, what does full of the Holy spirit look like? Well, we have to be watching. We have to be looking.

14:16.57
Nathan Pile
We have to be, as you said, um, you believe Jesus is coming down, which was pop. That was the word. Jesus is popping down all the time, um which I like the idea of, ah but we have to be watching for it.

14:29.90
Kevin Shock
Yeah, which actually isn't, isn't what Stephen says now that I read it again. He sees Jesus standing at the right hand of God. But anyway, but he can see Jesus fully right there, yeah.

14:36.62
Nathan Pile
Right. Right. He can see Jesus fully. Right. So, but I like the image of Jesus popping down. ah Um, and for us to be looking for that, like, again, we believe, as, ah as Lutheran Christians, we proclaim God is still active and alive in the world.

14:43.70
Kevin Shock
Hmm, okay.

14:53.10
Nathan Pile
And, um, and so how are we, how are we looking for that? How are we looking

15:02.97
Nathan Pile
for Jesus um

15:07.96
Nathan Pile
to be showing up uh how are we looking for the holy spirit um to be blowing through our world and, and making change, um, bringing love and um and compassion close bringing forgiveness of sin like so how are we, how am I keeping my eyes um trained so that it can see God in the world.

15:43.64
Nathan Pile
Because i' ah you know have I, um, um, I believe God is God and God is alive and God is in the world. And so if I believe all of those things, I sure as heck need to be looking for it.

15:59.38
Nathan Pile
know We used at camp, we used that phrase at the end of our Every day at camp, we hide highs, lows of the day. And then we do, where do we see God at work in the world today? And, and um boy, I do think we need to keep practicing that. How do we, how do I see God in the world? How did I see God um today?

16:21.88
Nathan Pile
um Is something that I need to...

16:29.46
Nathan Pile
I need to be intentional, I guess is the word that I might use. I need to be intentional in that looking, seeking, you trusting that God is present. And so um be looking for God so that so that so that I can name it, see it, remind myself, remind others

16:53.37
Nathan Pile
that, that God is here. So. What about you towards what is God calling you in this passage?

17:02.71
Kevin Shock
Yeah, ah well, yeah, I don't know. You, uh, You got me thinking about stuff, um, it's hard, you know, like in a passage where it's just focused on the stoning of something, but you the first martyrdom, like, I don't know, like, well, no, it's not, not, no, not that, but like, I don't know what God is calling me to do in the midst of this stuff, because it's hard for me to insert, like, I'm, I don't know the situation.

17:18.27
Nathan Pile
There's not a lot of good news. What do you say

17:28.81
Kevin Shock
I don't know who I am in the, uh, in the um story so to speak you know, I'm, I'm not the person being martyred, I'm not, I ah hope I'm not the person who is doing the martyring uh you know and so am I a bystander, I don't know. I, I really like what you say that this is, this is a call for us to focus on

17:33.72
Nathan Pile
Reading? Yeah.

17:56.41
Kevin Shock
what is, what is good and holy and right. And, and, and I think, you know, I continue to go back to, uh, that, that image of, you know, the people, the people cover their ears and I, I, it doesn't say they close their eyes, but they're, but I imagine that some of that's going on too.

18:17.89
Kevin Shock
They're shouting, they're rushing at him

18:18.13
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

18:20.31
Kevin Shock
um because they don't they don't want to be influenced in any way away from the what they're about to do. and And that to me, again, says that they if they don't want to be influenced, they know that it's the right thing for them to be influenced away from it. I i don't know how else to think about it. um

18:41.28
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

18:41.59
Kevin Shock
But it also brings me back to the to that word martyr. And um we, we call a Martyr, like and in the modern definition of a martyr is someone who dies for the faith.

18:59.19
Kevin Shock
um but But martyr is just the greek comes from the Greek word for witness. And so the, the martyrs are the ones who witness purely to what Christ is doing.

19:16.15
Kevin Shock
who who speak the good news plainly and that's what Stephen does here is that he, he's, he's focused, he's so focused on Jesus that all he does is he talks about his good news he sees the right he he announces to people and begs them to look themselves look i see the i see the son of man so sited seated at the right hand of god um and then he And then he asked Jesus to receive his spirit, and he asked Jesus to not hold the sin that these people have committed against them.

19:48.89
Kevin Shock
um this is all, This is all witnessing. This is all proclaiming good news. um And

19:59.26
Kevin Shock
like so many things in Scripture, I think you know we get focused on his death. Why does Stephen get put to death? The long part of the story here before this short excerpt is that Stephen, Stephen first has attention paid to him in a bad way that people argue with him because he is um he's ah he's a deacon in the church who's busy, busy feeding the widows, making sure that the widows get food.

20:33.30
Kevin Shock
And somehow being the person to make sure that ah the widows in the fellowship get food gets him to the point where people want to kill him. I mean, he does he does give a kind of incendiary sermon, but it's a sermon that says, you know, essentially, this, this is why I'm giving widows food.

20:54.44
Kevin Shock
Like, this fits into the salvation history. Yeah. And fits into the work that God has done both through and in spite of the leaders that God has called.

21:06.36
Kevin Shock
and um, And he gives that speech and they get so mad that they just want to stone him to death. And they do. So, so I think, I think being a witness, being, being focused, taking, taking what you say, being focused on Jesus and the work Jesus is doing.

21:23.64
Kevin Shock
and then, And then the next step is then to be a person who tells that work. Who proclaims that word being a witness and sometimes being a witness will get you killed.

21:36.47
Kevin Shock
Be aware of that.

21:36.62
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

21:40.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah, because you're...

21:44.79
Nathan Pile
You're pushing against culture. You're pushing against what makes us comfortable when we witness.

21:56.44
Nathan Pile
So...

22:00.85
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Yeah. Right.

22:05.47
Nathan Pile
all of the, all of the, you know, I, I begrudgingly kind of, not begrudgingly, I say flippantly maybe, um, like they're, the, the people are, are, um, pouting.

22:20.89
Nathan Pile
They want their own way. Right. That's what the covering their ears and screaming in a loud voice, like you're disrupting what is what I know and what is normal.

22:22.68
Kevin Shock
right

22:33.69
Nathan Pile
Um,

22:35.18
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

22:35.38
Nathan Pile
And I think when we talk about God and and being a witness to God in the world, it, we, we, we, this

22:46.46
Nathan Pile
our, our human ways of living, our selfishness, our sinfulness, our brokenness, oftentimes,

23:00.06
Nathan Pile
um God's ways are are are designed to lead us out of out of that. And so, again, I don't want to hear your, your message of care for these people.

23:20.06
Nathan Pile
So, yeah, yeah.

23:21.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

23:28.31
Nathan Pile
All right, we want to do this a third time. Anything else for you?

23:31.02
Kevin Shock
Let's do it.

23:32.25
Nathan Pile
Third time through.

23:32.44
Kevin Shock
Yep.

23:37.00
Nathan Pile
I need to be on the right tab. There we go. But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently toward heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

23:48.41
Nathan Pile
Look, he said, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God. But they covered their ears, shouting out with a loud voice and rushed at him with one intent.

24:01.56
Nathan Pile
When they had driven him out of the city, they began to stone him. And the witnesses laid their cloaks at the feet of a young man named Saul. They continued to stone Stephen while he prayed. while he prayed Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

24:17.46
Nathan Pile
Then he fell to his knees and cried out with a loud voice, Lord, do not hold this sin against them. when he had said this he died

24:30.01
Nathan Pile
Kevin um how does forgiveness change us

24:37.53
Kevin Shock
I don't know.

24:43.51
Kevin Shock
ah ah Forgiveness,

24:48.89
Kevin Shock
Well, I guess this question is, is intentionally vague. Does it mean being forgiven or um or offering forgiveness? I guess it could mean either one.

24:59.48
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Yeah, could be either one.

25:01.05
Kevin Shock
um I don't think, I don't think, I don't think offering forgiveness changes Stephen. I think Stephen is changed and then he offers forgiveness. I think that, and I don't know when that change comes.

25:12.45
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

25:13.60
Kevin Shock
I think that change comes before this reading. um

25:17.11
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

25:17.34
Kevin Shock
But being focused on Jesus, he is he is quick to offer forgiveness. that's, that, That's just the facts of the story.

25:25.07
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

25:26.23
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

25:26.83
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

25:29.53
Kevin Shock
I think that um for the people who are...

25:37.29
Kevin Shock
I'm going to go to another reading, actually, because we don't hear what happens to these people. Well, we do hear what happens to one of these people, which I think maybe is where I came up with this question, is that um the, the cloaks, they're watching all of this happen, is Saul, who...

25:53.70
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

25:57.59
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

25:59.77
Kevin Shock
not long after this has a conversion where he becomes fully focused on Jesus becomes Paul and then, um, and then begins to do work in a different kind of way for the sake of God.

26:02.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

26:14.14
Nathan Pile
A different way. Yeah.

26:16.09
Kevin Shock
Um,

26:18.01
Nathan Pile
His witness changes. If we go back to here.

26:19.64
Kevin Shock
his witness changes. Yeah.

26:21.20
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

26:21.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Right. he's, He's, he's a witness. He's a witness to the stoning of Stephen.

26:26.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

26:26.42
Kevin Shock
Um, but, but then he becomes a witness to the glory of Jesus Christ along with Stephen.

26:33.18
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

26:33.24
Kevin Shock
And, um,

26:38.24
Kevin Shock
now there are other funny things too, but you know, like he loses his sight, which is kind of akin to the people covering their ears. But yeah, I don't know. Um,

26:51.51
Kevin Shock
Lots of things to unpack here, I guess. So, so we do hear that one person is, is transformed by this forgiveness that Stephen offers.

26:59.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

27:00.73
Kevin Shock
and um And the thing that I think about is, I think it's in John's Gospel. where Jesus offers forgiveness from the cross or asks God to forgive the people because they don't know what they're doing. And then the people, once Jesus breathes his last, the first people to announce him as the son of God are the Roman centurions who were there nailing him to the cross.

27:25.72
Kevin Shock
um So somehow forgiveness, I think, brings about focus. And I think that that's a Holy Spirit work.

27:35.44
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

27:35.74
Kevin Shock
um ah but, But forgiveness, I guess forgiveness exists to break down any barrier that exists between us and being able to focus on Jesus.

27:51.82
Kevin Shock
there's, There's nothing that prevents us from accessing Jesus or seeing Jesus or witnessing Jesus or whatever the word might be that we want to use. And forgiveness does that for us.

28:07.64
Kevin Shock
What do you think, Nathan? How does forgiveness change us?

28:16.89
Nathan Pile
Um, yeah, I'm not far from where you're at. Um, in that I think, um,

28:27.86
Nathan Pile
you've, I think articulated the two, the two pieces of forgiveness, right? That we're the one forgiving or the one being, or the one being forgiven. Um, I think in us forgiving, there's a freedom, um,

28:44.47
Nathan Pile
that I'm going to put down my hurt feelings, my, um, whatever I'm holding against you in my, my forgiving of you. Um,

29:00.50
Nathan Pile
the, and to be forgiven, I think also frees us. Um,

29:09.52
Nathan Pile
it frees us from,

29:14.01
Nathan Pile
you know, the, us kind of torturing ourselves of, oh man, I didn't mean to hurt this person. And, and, um, and, you know, seeking forgiveness and then to be forgiven, um, gives us that freedom. And so I think, you know, overall my simple answer for this is, is that, and again, it's not far from where you're at here.

29:39.03
Nathan Pile
Um, that forgiveness gives us some freedom to live, to, to, to be, um, to seek, to be God's disciples and, and to recognize that, um,

29:56.93
Nathan Pile
that our selfishness will get in the way of living in God's ways. Um, but the forgiveness that were promised from God through Christ, um,

30:12.31
Nathan Pile
the forgiveness that we share with others in our lives and that they in turn, share with us, frees us to, to get up again tomorrow and try again, to live more fully into God's loving ways.

30:27.41
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

30:29.07
Nathan Pile
And so, um, I think, ah to me, the, the change that is there is, yeah, it's, it's a part motivation, it's a part of a feeling that we have, we have choice, we have freedom of self in our world to, to, to try again. You know, I think both of those are a part of how I think forgiveness changes us.

31:01.59
Nathan Pile
um

31:04.54
Nathan Pile
And, and I, again, I think having,

31:11.03
Nathan Pile
walking alongside others who,

31:17.26
Nathan Pile
who are able to forgive and let go of of ways that I've hurt them allows me to live more deeply into relationship with them.

31:34.07
Nathan Pile
And so that's ah so in that freedom, there's also a depth of, of, um,

31:41.78
Nathan Pile
of living life together. So the forgiveness that God gives us and, and living more deeply into that relationship. And then also the freedom that is given in forgiveness, um, in my, um, in my human relationships, um, allows me to live more deeply into relationship with those individuals, the people that don't forgive me.

32:03.13
Nathan Pile
I don't feel the same freedom and, or the depth of relationship with. and And for sure, I don't feel that with people that I haven't forgiven, that I'm not able to forgive.

32:18.68
Nathan Pile
I think those would be my two pieces. ah you know it's a bit amazing to me here that that Stephen is able to do that. But again, he's full of the Spirit.

32:30.81
Nathan Pile
There's someone else, the, the God, the, the divine one is, is guiding him in his his words and actions in these last moments of his life.

32:31.28
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right.

32:45.46
Nathan Pile
But it is a, you know, that's a it's a powerful proclamation in the midst of, know, being killed by, by other selfish human beings.

33:01.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yep, right, yeah, yeah, I don't know, I don't know, there's something, there's something that still eludes me, ah though I'm long into this both personally and professionally, that sometimes I um don't experience the freedom of

33:04.16
Nathan Pile
So.

33:21.78
Kevin Shock
being forgiving to people who have hurt me or or am i am unafraid to die in the name of Jesus, I mean, not, not that that's something that I ever really even have to consider but um I like to think that I've gotten closer to the point where uh my comfort is not as much a guiding factor of the things that I do or don't do um but But I know I'm not perfect with that. So, yeah.

34:01.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah, well, um anything else?

34:04.25
Nathan Pile
um just I'm just sitting here rolling around in my head this idea of of yeah how do how do we live more fully into being able to forgive one another?

34:04.53
Kevin Shock
ah

34:18.50
Nathan Pile
The broken relationships that I have and and even the relationships that I wouldn't consider to be broken, but... that at times get fractured a little bit is because of my own selfishness of not being able to forgive them.

34:35.93
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

34:37.01
Nathan Pile
I'm still carrying around a grudge or a feeling that I feel still feel like I need to carry around for whatever reason.

34:38.60
Kevin Shock
All right.

34:48.41
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

34:51.16
Nathan Pile
And that's a bit of it a an epiphany as we sit here and talk about this. Like, how do how do i How do I remind myself in those moments test to to be open to forgiveness so that I can be free of lugging it around and and allow the relationship to be restored back to more more wholeness, more fullness.

35:10.38
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

35:21.68
Nathan Pile
So, yeah.

35:22.52
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yeah, I think these are important things for us to continue to think about.

35:27.79
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

35:31.64
Nathan Pile
Any other thoughts for you?

35:35.16
Kevin Shock
Um, no, I don't think so. I don't think so. Let's, uh, I know this says it's a short episode, but it's a short reading too. So ah um as always, friends, we invite you to like, we want to hear what you think about forgiveness because we learn from the things that you tell us and ask us and, and,

35:57.02
Kevin Shock
So please, please be sure to email us about some of these things as we're as we've been talking about them. um Our additional text that if you want to look elsewhere to to dive into scripture a little bit, Psalm 31 verses 1 through 5 and 15 and 16, into your hands, O Lord, I commend my spirit.

36:15.59
Kevin Shock
1 Peter chapter 2 verses 2 through 10, God's people chosen to proclaim God's mighty acts. So there again, we have witnessing martyrdom.

36:25.87
Nathan Pile
Mm. Mm.

36:26.26
Kevin Shock
John 14 verses 1 through 14, Christ, the way, the truth, and life. And then provisional readings for the season of Easter. Proverbs chapter 4 verses 10 through 18, the way of wisdom is your life.

36:41.75
Kevin Shock
And from Psalm 119 verses 25 through 32, set the way of faithfulness before me. As I already said, friends, ah please, we invite your reflections on the things that Nathan and I have been talking about, and we hope to tend our faith with you again soon.

36:58.55
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

37:00.36
Nathan Pile
and peace.