S4 Episode 28: Psalm 115

Translation: NRSVue

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

What gods are you tempted to follow?

Additional texts:

Acts 17:22-31

Psalm 66:8-20

1 Peter 3:13-22

John 14:15-21

Provisional Readings:

Ezekiel 43:1-7a

Transcript

00:02.62
Nathan Pile
Well, Kevin, it is time for us to step away from... everything that's going on in our worlds and engage with each other and with scripture a little bit here today.

00:16.76
Nathan Pile
um ah We're recording this. It's still in April. However, it feels like May because our trees have almost leaves on them, which is insane at camp in the month of April.

00:30.50
Nathan Pile
Mother's Day is usually, yeah, it's super early.

00:30.54
Kevin Shock
Oh, is that early?

00:32.74
Nathan Pile
Usually Mother's Day is a kind of our... normal leaves start kind of popping at the end of edges of branches, but we are, um, they are popping early. And so, uh, we've also had snow, um, as recent as yesterday. So, um, uh, so it goes, uh, but, uh, I look forward to a little bit of time here to, um,

00:57.56
Nathan Pile
to look at scripture together, my friend, um the, uh, Bible passage this week is going to be Psalm 115 and Kevin and I are going to read it through NRSVUE,

01:11.83
Nathan Pile
um the new revised standard version, updated edition. Kevin, do you think they're going to just keep adding letters to the NRSVUE Well, like the next one be the NRSVUE um,

01:21.06
Kevin Shock
No, no, no.

01:26.17
Nathan Pile
um

01:29.94
Kevin Shock
UEA, updated version again?

01:32.38
Nathan Pile
ah Again, oh, there it is, A. um You don't think that's going to happen?

01:34.90
Kevin Shock
No, no, I don't, I don't know. I don't know.

01:37.66
Nathan Pile
um

01:38.01
Kevin Shock
It took, I mean, the NRSV,

01:39.42
Nathan Pile
Or for real? Like, they could it but could be FR, for real.

01:43.64
Kevin Shock
it the um,

01:44.66
Nathan Pile
Updated edition for real.

01:48.95
Kevin Shock
um

01:52.22
Kevin Shock
that came out, that was released in like the mid to late eighties. So I feel like, you know, this has been 40 years in the making or it took them almost 40 years to do it.

02:02.20
Nathan Pile
The updated, the updated editio- edition was.

02:03.82
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, by the time they get to the next one, you and I are going to be, Hey, we might be here.

02:07.70
Nathan Pile
You and I won't be around. Yeah, we won't be here.

02:12.86
Nathan Pile
We'll be Adama.

02:14.94
Kevin Shock
No, 40 years. That's only, that makes, that only makes me 91. Don't,

02:19.45
Nathan Pile
Oh, okay.

02:20.54
Nathan Pile
All right. I see what you're saying.

02:21.08
Kevin Shock
I mean, we might not be here, but or at least, like, I won't be caring much about which biblical translations are being released at that point in my life, maybe.

02:28.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah, that's probably true. That's pretty true

02:29.75
Kevin Shock
Although maybe I will be. I'd, I would like to think that I would be. I still want to have interests in things when I'm old.

02:36.78
Nathan Pile
I'm going to be grumpy and, and old and crotchety by then. And I will obviously believe just like, just give me what I know. Just give me what I know.

02:46.91
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

02:48.89
Nathan Pile
give me Give me the CEB, baby.

02:51.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

02:52.30
Nathan Pile
Kevin, converted me back in the 2020s.

02:54.23
Kevin Shock
ah The C-E-B-U-E.

02:58.98
Nathan Pile
Oh, Geez, Louise.

02:59.90
Kevin Shock
Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. ah

03:01.81
Nathan Pile
geez louise a

03:03.42
Kevin Shock
ah

03:05.46
Nathan Pile
So as you all know, Kevin and I like to banter.

03:06.78
Kevin Shock
anyway

03:08.30
Nathan Pile
And so that today is, is not far off from that. Just a couple of shout outs to people who have reached out recently on the podcast and have shared their thoughts sometimes about the readings themselves.

03:16.60
Kevin Shock
yeah

03:23.97
Nathan Pile
So thanks to Tom. I saw Tom in North Carolina. the Tom's the camp director in Virginia. um And he, uh, he had made comment of of continuing to listen like to listen to TEND, even though it was done by a Pennsylvania camp director.

03:40.88
Nathan Pile
So, so thanks, Tom.

03:41.12
Kevin Shock
Oh, that's nice of him.

03:42.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah, thanks, Tom, for, for the shout out and the conversation that we had there and during the mission trip.

03:43.10
Kevin Shock
Thanks, Tom. Yeah.

03:50.79
Nathan Pile
Uh, also a shout out to, uh, to Bill and Nicholas. So Bill was the one who told me, um father of Nicholas. Uh, but Nicholas is the one who listens regularly and then tells his dad about everything that he's listened to.

04:06.05
Nathan Pile
Um, so, uh, nice job, Nicholas, in taking, the word from the podcast and sharing it with other people.

04:07.13
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

04:14.13
Nathan Pile
Um, even if dad doesn't listen himself,

04:14.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah, absolutely. Yep.

04:17.11
Nathan Pile
he, ah, hit his comment was, I feel like I do because Nicholas brings it up just about every week. ah

04:23.41
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yeah.

04:24.54
Nathan Pile
So great job. So thanks for, thanks for those shout outs.

04:25.53
Kevin Shock
yeah

04:27.82
Nathan Pile
And Kevin, you have a few.

04:29.37
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah sam ah Sam sent us an email, um among other things, wanted to let us know that she's on Team Thomas. So I'm really, really happy to hear about that because I feel like I was really pushing that. ah you know like But um yeah, talked about his boldness too and and how it how it relates to her and even her role as a mother. So that was really great to read, Sam. we appreciate that email.

04:55.03
Kevin Shock
um I had a, well, I was in, uh, in Harrisburg for our Lutheran advocacy day at the Capitol, um, had a good conversation with Kayla, who is a fairly regular listener, um, talking about, um, the different translations that we use.

05:11.55
Kevin Shock
She wanted to hear more about that. So that was, um, it was a good conversation.

05:13.14
Nathan Pile
um

05:15.27
Kevin Shock
And, uh, And Marsha, who serves as an assistant to the Bishop in Lower Susquehanna Synod, said she hasn't, she hasn't noticed it pop up ah lately in her feed.

05:26.02
Kevin Shock
And she wanted to know if we were still doing it. And I said, we are absolutely still doing it. So Marsha gave her gratitude and said she'll be seeking us out again to make sure she can listen.

05:38.87
Nathan Pile
Yeah, we need those ah podcast subscriber applications to, to work for us. And sometimes an update causes them to change.

05:45.82
Kevin Shock
Yes. Yeah.

05:48.89
Nathan Pile
an update causes them to change so

05:51.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah. this This is a good reminder too for people. um If you haven't already, we love your reviews and comments on either Apple Podcasts or Spotify. it just helps drive up the audience to which the the podcast is available. so If you are able to give us a, as my friend Doug says on his podcast, five stars only, please um give us a review on either Spotify or Apple podcast.

06:27.08
Kevin Shock
That would be much appreciated if you haven't already done it.

06:29.30
Nathan Pile
helps others, It helps others find us.

06:31.25
Kevin Shock
Helps others find us. That's right. Yep. So Nathan, what questions are we looking at?

06:35.13
Nathan Pile
All right. So we're, we're reading. I think we're going to talk about some questions. Those three questions. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text? Toward what is God calling you in this text? and what And then the third question. What gods are you tempted to follow?

06:51.59
Nathan Pile
Okay.

06:52.09
Kevin Shock
real confessional kind of stuff coming up here.

06:54.17
Nathan Pile
I was going to say, I do feel like I'm going into confession here.

06:55.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

06:56.65
Nathan Pile
So I was just about ready to launch into that, but it's not time for that yet.

06:57.43
Kevin Shock
Yep.

07:01.03
Nathan Pile
So your turn.

07:02.74
Kevin Shock
here, Here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, firmly in middle age, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania.

07:16.95
Kevin Shock
All this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another, so we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as the Spirit speaks to you in your reading of scripture.

07:41.18
Kevin Shock
As Nathan said, we are looking at Psalm 115 today, and I'm, I'm excited for us to tackle this psalm, Nathan. This is one of the provisional texts, so not something that pops up very regularly in our lectionary. um Psalm 115.

08:01.11
Kevin Shock
Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to your name give glory. for the sake of your steadfast love and your faithfulness. Why should the nation say, where is their God?

08:13.08
Kevin Shock
Our God is in the heavens. He does whatever he pleases. Their idols are silver and gold, the work of human hands. They have mouths, but they do not speak. They have eyes, but they do not see.

08:25.46
Kevin Shock
They have ears, but they do not hear. They have noses, but they do not smell. They have hands, but they do not feel. They have feet, but they do not walk. They make no sound in their throats.

08:37.56
Kevin Shock
Those who make them are like them. So are all who trust in them. O Israel, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield. O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield.

08:51.35
Kevin Shock
You who fear the Lord, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield. The Lord has been mindful of us. He will bless us. He will bless the house of Israel. He will bless the house of Aaron. He will bless those who fear the Lord, both small and great.

09:06.62
Kevin Shock
May the Lord give you increase, both you and your children. May you be blessed by the Lord who made heaven and earth. The heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth he has given to human beings.

09:17.05
Kevin Shock
The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence. But we will bless the Lord from this time on and forevermore. Praise the Lord.

09:28.89
Kevin Shock
If you are meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions with one another. ah Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

09:42.46
Nathan Pile
It was actually the first, that first phrase, not to us, oh Lord, not to us. um that, That kind of caused me to kind of get into my own, my own little thought vortex here this morning of,

10:02.62
Nathan Pile
of, oh, you know, it's a repeating of, ah, of the phrase. um And so it caught my attention. And, and of course it's, um it's not to be about us.

10:16.18
Nathan Pile
And so I thought that was an interesting way to launch into this psalm. Now there's a note here that says Psalm 114 and 115 are the same

10:29.66
Nathan Pile
are our one psalm in the earliest editions of the Psalms. So now it does make me curious about what the end of 114 says and how it might fit to it.

10:37.15
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

10:42.14
Nathan Pile
but But excluding that, since we didn't do that piece of it today, the, that not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to give your, your name, give glory.

10:54.27
Nathan Pile
Again, this idea of... not making ourselves the center of

11:05.02
Nathan Pile
of our world, which we do have a tendency to do. and And, you know, we know that through throughout history that that we as as human beings, it's hard for us not to think of o ourselves as the center, you know, the the earliest um understandings of, of, uh, of our world and of our universe was that that we were the center of the universe you know and so like it was just, it just kind of feels like yeah, we, yeah, well, of course we're the center you know our planet is the center and then you know over time we the um the early scientists um

11:27.32
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

11:53.14
Nathan Pile
And so being able to kind understand, you know, to to that like those early scientists then had to kind of work against our own, our own understandings of, of, of the world because we're like, ah well, what, we're the center of that.

12:09.69
Nathan Pile
And so here in this hymn, in this song, we get this phrase of not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to your name give glory. So again, that idea of, of pushing out, um, beyond our, beyond our own selfish desires to recognize that there's someone else who deserves the glory for that which makes up the world.

12:39.99
Nathan Pile
And then the other thing that kind of that jumped out of me as you were reading was, yeah there was, I'm, and I'm taking a liberty now to do it, and then you can't you just have to deal with it.

12:44.18
Kevin Shock
two things?

12:49.98
Nathan Pile
um The other one was the word increase down in 14. And again, I, as I read, both of, both, I heard the not us and that increase, I wondered, is this why Kevin picked this passage or this translation? I do wonder that from time to time. um But may the Lord give you increase. And and that gave me that

13:12.76
Nathan Pile
the opposite of what I was feeling at the beginning, which is we're to give honor and glory to God. And then, and then, then our humanness kind of shows up here in 14 and may the Lord give you increase.

13:25.72
Nathan Pile
May the Lord give you more. Um, and so it gets to that, you know we humans have a way of bringing it back around. uh, maybe, I don't know, but it was, it just struck me as, Oh, that's the opposite of what I was just thinking about. Um,

13:40.82
Nathan Pile
here and And I get here, we're asking God to be the one who gives the increase. That that God is the one who brings about that increase. ah But I guess it was ah it was a part for me of, of, okay, what about me?

14:01.46
Nathan Pile
Oh, I, I, yeah, I would like some increase, God. Could you increase both for me and for my children? So I don't know. Those are my two initial... spots where the wording kind of caught my attention how about you oh okay

14:17.40
Kevin Shock
Well, first I'd like to respond to what you say. Um, yeah I, yeah, that increase, I think that increase for me is, um, I feel like that's coding for blessing.

14:29.81
Kevin Shock
I mean, we hear blessing around there too.

14:30.70
Nathan Pile
hmm

14:32.57
Kevin Shock
And, you know, recognizing that

14:37.08
Kevin Shock
Yeah, ah yeah we we read a psalm a few months ago where there was the line in it, in the translation, Lord, give us success. that I remember we both kind of bristled at that line, too.

14:46.94
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

14:48.26
Kevin Shock
um

14:48.26
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

14:49.43
Kevin Shock
But I think it's important to remember, too, in the grand vision of Hebrew Scripture that God's reason for giving Israel, Judah, or the house of Aaron, as we read in this.

15:06.84
Kevin Shock
So the Levites, Israel and the Levites, um or anyone who fears the Lord, both small and great, ah that the reason God gives blessing and prosperity to these people, these nations, is so that other nations can see them and be drawn into relationship with that same God.

15:30.39
Kevin Shock
Um, so I think that, I think that prosperity can happen and also can happen so that God receives the glory for it and not the people who are receiving the blessing.

15:41.26
Nathan Pile
Here.

15:43.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not downplaying your reaction to it or your feeling about it. It, it does.

15:49.48
Nathan Pile
Sure.

15:49.66
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And anytime that kind of stuff shows up, um, we, yeah, you know, We also live in an age, too, where we like we try to speak against things like the prosperity gospel.

16:01.83
Kevin Shock
Like, if, if you follow God, if you're faithful to God, then God will give you blessing. If you you know if you sow the seed by giving me, your pastor or money, then...

16:08.66
Nathan Pile
Right. Yep.

16:17.18
Kevin Shock
um you know, then God will bless you with money. I, I think when we get into the particulars of it, the details of it, of what blessing looks like and what we want blessing to look like, that's where we get, I think that's where we get dangerously close to following other gods instead of giving glory to the God who gives us life.

16:39.42
Kevin Shock
um So yeah, anyway, um, I, I just really like This is a poetic Psalm again. I love the repetition in it.

16:52.12
Kevin Shock
From verse nine kind of on, we hear the, he's their help and their shield. We hear that three times. a he will He will bless us. He will bless the house of Israel, bless the house of Aaron, bless those who fear the Lord.

17:07.93
Kevin Shock
um But the part that really drew me in in the Psalm is the description of the idols. They have mouths, but they do not speak eyes, but they do not hear ears, but they do not eyes, but they do not see ears, but they do not hear noses, but they do not smell.

17:16.04
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

17:25.11
Kevin Shock
um And that the heading in the NRSV, the NRSVUE in NRSV, both give headings for a lot of their chapters and sections of scripture. And this, this one is entitled The Impotence of Idols and the Greatness of God.

17:41.69
Kevin Shock
And I, yeah, I like that. that These, that and first glance, these idols might be able to give you whatever you want, but as you kind of interact with them, you learn that, that they, they're not what they appear to be.

17:59.99
Kevin Shock
Um, and so I like that description of, you know, that, like, I think, I think the way, the way poetically that the psalmist paints this picture of, um, they, you know, they have, they have these things that, um, that human beings have to,

18:15.64
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

18:20.18
Kevin Shock
to give us senses, but they have no sense themselves. um, I like, I like the way that that's, that's drawn out here, the way that it's presented.

18:32.70
Kevin Shock
um And I think, yeah, I think just thinking about those those metaphors, that that's, yeah, like I said, idols, other gods,

18:44.98
Kevin Shock
might have great promises for us but they can't deliver on those promises. There's, there's only one God who can do that and and it is this this god who deserves the glory that that we ask God to claim for Godself in this psalm yeah

19:03.83
Nathan Pile
Well, and, and as you share that, the thing that that um popped into my head was um God is alive.

19:13.78
Kevin Shock
Yes, yes, yeah.

19:14.94
Nathan Pile
Whereas these other idols, they, they have the look of, of human, of humanness, but they're not alive.

19:26.18
Kevin Shock
Right. Mm-hmm.

19:27.77
Nathan Pile
They don't do any of the things that that it means to be alive.

19:32.76
Kevin Shock
Yep, yep.

19:33.53
Nathan Pile
So

19:34.71
Kevin Shock
yeah, that, Yeah, I appreciate that. That's like that's a good way to talk about it, yep.

19:40.41
Nathan Pile
just kind of, as you were talking about, because ah again, I do think it's a rich imagery of what the author is kind of saying to us of

19:53.27
Nathan Pile
ah you know, they, they, they, they are expensive. They're made of silver and they're made of gold. They, they look valuable. Um, but they don't, they don't have the pieces that make up what we consider to be life.

20:09.24
Nathan Pile
So.

20:09.40
Kevin Shock
Yes, they're, um, they're attractive in appearance, but have no substance.

20:13.69
Nathan Pile
Mm-hmm.

20:14.44
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

20:15.57
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

20:15.80
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

20:16.31
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

20:16.96
Kevin Shock
And, and, uh, and I think of that, um, I mean, it's an Isaiah, but when we read about like the suffering servant, um, is the opposite or the inverse of that.

20:27.32
Kevin Shock
The suffering servant is not attractive in appearance, um but is full of substance, um, has, has so much to teach the people.

20:37.54
Kevin Shock
and yeah

20:38.21
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

20:39.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah

20:39.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

20:41.72
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I appreciate that, that they're not, yeah, this is this ah poetry, this metaphor, this imagery makes it clear that these are not living gods. they They can't accomplish anything for you that you want them to.

20:53.61
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

20:57.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah, sure.

20:57.14
Nathan Pile
All right. We're going to do a second time.

20:59.42
Kevin Shock
sure

21:03.96
Nathan Pile
Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to your name give glory, for the sake of your steadfast love and your faithfulness. Why should the nation say, where is their God?

21:16.66
Nathan Pile
Our God is in the heavens. He does whatever he pleases. Their idols are silver and gold, the work of human hands. They have mouths, but they do not speak.

21:29.14
Nathan Pile
They have eyes, but they do not see. They have ears, but they do not hear. They have noses, but they do not smell. They have hands, but they do not feel.

21:39.70
Nathan Pile
They have feet, but they do not walk. They make no sound in their throats. And those who make them are like them. So are all who trust in them.

21:50.87
Nathan Pile
O Israel, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield. O house of Zion, er, trust our house of Aaron, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield.

22:03.64
Nathan Pile
You who fear the Lord, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield. The Lord has been mindful of us. He will bless us.

22:14.53
Nathan Pile
He will bless the house of Israel. He will bless the house of Aaron. He will bless those who fear the Lord, both small and great. May the Lord give you increase, both you and your children. May you be blessed by the Lord who made heaven and earth.

22:31.48
Nathan Pile
The heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth he has given to human beings. The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence.

22:43.00
Nathan Pile
But we will bless the Lord from this time on and forevermore. Praise the Lord.

22:52.92
Nathan Pile
Kevin, um, toward what is God calling you in this text?

23:00.79
Kevin Shock
Um, I, the, I mean, the easy answer is to, um, look, look for the God who lives. Um, um, yeah, that's, that's the easy answer. I guess that takes a lot of unpacking.

23:19.90
Kevin Shock
Um, I, I always think, I always think of idols, false gods, as the things that we chase to get, um,

23:20.38
Nathan Pile
Sure, sure.

23:31.67
Kevin Shock
quick, even momentary satisfaction for what we are seeking.

23:39.56
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

23:40.25
Kevin Shock
And, and so this,

23:46.78
Kevin Shock
yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess the other thing, you know, we talk about relationship in this podcast a lot, Nathan, we talk about in ministry a lot. um We talk about relationship in ministry a lot is what I mean. um And ah so the

24:11.54
Kevin Shock
the relationship, as I understand it in this psalm, and um I don't think I'm going articulate it exactly as I want to, is um is mutual relationship. God gives blessing.

24:28.12
Kevin Shock
and

24:32.60
Kevin Shock
And by the blessing of God, the people give glory.

24:39.61
Kevin Shock
Again, I don't know if that's, if I'm, if I'm saying it exactly the way that I want to, but um but I think I am. um That God...

24:55.26
Kevin Shock
ah Am I making sense that I, that the relationship is one of mutuality?

25:01.36
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

25:01.88
Kevin Shock
that That we, like with the idols, we just we ask the idols to give us something because we want them to give it to us. With God, there's, there's a promise there's a promise fulfilled and then a and then a commitment of return.

25:10.04
Nathan Pile
Sure.

25:18.81
Kevin Shock
And it's not like this, like i remember I remember one time someone I visited in the hospital who said to me, ah if God heals me, I'll come to church every Sunday.

25:29.53
Kevin Shock
Well, God did heal them.

25:29.73
Nathan Pile
Mm.

25:33.21
Kevin Shock
They did not come to church every Sunday. And, and, and I did not, I did not judge or begrudge that person. that that you know they, people, People say things to their...

25:46.94
Kevin Shock
their pastor or their family members pastor in times of distress that they do not intend to uphold or, you know, say it out of desperation, whatever it might be.

25:57.21
Kevin Shock
I think if you have the kind of relationship with God where you say, if God does this for me, then I'll do this for God. That's not, that's not a real relationship with God. That's, it's, it's transaction.

26:06.25
Nathan Pile
Yeah, it's a way of human relationship, right? It's a way of, of that, that we've not, that we as a culture and a society haven't done well at creating good relationship.

26:10.23
Kevin Shock
It is, it is.

26:18.80
Nathan Pile
If that's the, really like it's a, um, if then or a, um, we're looking for reciprocal relationships.

26:20.82
Kevin Shock
yeah. come

26:28.22
Nathan Pile
yeah The relationship needs to benefit me, and then I'll do something for you. That goes back to that. It's not about me. Peace, maybe a little bit. But right relationship with God means something different. And I think it's everything that you're talking about, right? Like that's the right relationship means there is a commitment on both sides of the relationship.

26:54.83
Nathan Pile
there's trust on, on both, There's trust on both sides of the relationship.

26:56.30
Kevin Shock
There's trust. Yeah.

26:59.86
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. yeah, yeah I, um, yeah, it's not, yeah, it's not even that human relationships are relegated to that way of being either, but it is a human view of relationship.

27:15.61
Nathan Pile
Sure, yeah.

27:16.18
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah. I, cause I, I think human relationships can be holy. i know I know you think that too. but But yes, it's easy for us to fall into a kind of a transactional way of being in relationship. And, and I think that that's what, yeah, that's what that's what idols are about. You know, if, if I, if I come and offer you the offerings that you want, um I expect something in return.

27:43.06
Kevin Shock
And this, this relationship between us and the living God, as you say, Nathan, is built on trust. Trust that promise will be fulfilled and then trust that we also um don't just get what we want and run away until we need something else, but, but remain in, in relationship with God um through you know through the thick and the thin, through the good and the bad, through the high and the low. um That's, yeah, that's the, that's the mutual kind of relationship that God seeks with us and that not only God seeks with us, but in our in our very innermost being are, we long for.

28:23.35
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

28:23.74
Kevin Shock
because God is the one who has made us. You know, we, we, we have eyes and see, we have ears and hear. I know this is very, this is an ableist kind of psalm, but, but we have we have all that we are.

28:32.54
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

28:37.88
Kevin Shock
What I'm trying to say is we have all that we are because that's who God has made us to be. and And so all that we are longs for God. Yeah.

28:51.42
Kevin Shock
whether we always admit to it or not, but but but it is it is true. Yeah.

28:58.62
Kevin Shock
Whether we always recognize it or not, it's true.

29:03.13
Kevin Shock
So anyway, Nathan, what, what is God calling you toward in this text?

29:09.92
Nathan Pile
Um, uh, yours is like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty close in relationship to what you were talking about. Um, but as you were talking,

29:21.40
Nathan Pile
um I think it, I feel called towards seeking the infinite singularity. So, and I say, I'll unpack that.

29:32.95
Kevin Shock
Please.

29:33.56
Nathan Pile
So in, when I was in college, I did, I had a lot of reading towards the end of my college years, because I decided to add religion as a major and not just a minor. And so I,

29:45.40
Nathan Pile
made life harder for myself my senior year. But I spent a lot of time with one-on-one classes with my professors and they made me do a lot of reading and then come once a week to talk about what I had read.

29:59.63
Nathan Pile
and, and, And if I hadn't read, it was a really long hour. um

30:04.91
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

30:06.33
Nathan Pile
But in that, um I grew to so I grew in my understanding of faith. Um, and one of the phrases that got used before my senior year by one of my professors was this idea of an infinite singularity.

30:23.96
Nathan Pile
Um, it was actually the very first class I ever took from this, this professor was the first time I was introduced to it. Um, um, and, and it would, and it, and it kind of changed, um, understanding of God a little bit for the, for the, um,

30:45.56
Nathan Pile
for the better, my understanding of, of, of this relationship that we seek to live into and to trust into with with God. And so this psalm is all about this living God, this living entity. and, And the way I got introduced to this my freshman year was the professor had kind of done all of the Big Bang Theory, kind of traced all of the what we what we think we know about the origins of the world from the science perspective as of 1994. It's, you know, kind of a thing. And so he, you know, he was using a book, but he had, he kind of did it up on the, on the, it was like the second day of class.

31:26.62
Nathan Pile
He drew this giant timeline across the dry erase marker board, ah kind of around the whole room and and kind of tracked back all of these things, everything that we think we know from a scientific perspective. And, and it gets back to the big bang and,

31:42.30
Nathan Pile
and, And we've done this the whole day. You know, we spent an hour on He's making this timeline and he gets to the big bang and he says, some of you, this might have ruined your faith. It might have, have given you lots of questions. But it for me, it helped me to understand that after the Big Bang, that's where the infinite singularity comes in. That's where God comes in.

32:05.69
Nathan Pile
Something starts the Big Bang. And he says, and maybe in science in 100 years or 200 years, we'll learn something more, something that's before the Big Bang. And he's like, and then before that is going to be that infinite singularity, that that thing that goes on forever that has always been here, that is the divine. And all of a sudden I started to, you know, that, that was all very helpful for me. And so this idea of seeking the infinite singularity in the myth that is living.

32:35.37
Nathan Pile
It's a living entity, the singular this infinite singularity, this this God um that we as human beings try to write about and try to understand and and and know we have questions about and and try to live in a relationship with and and to try to trust.

32:51.26
Nathan Pile
and, And I think the word you kept using was mutual, that it's a mutual thing.

32:55.36
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

32:55.38
Nathan Pile
Again, it's that relationship piece.

32:55.80
Kevin Shock
oh

32:59.64
Nathan Pile
that that a part of a part of my living in this relationship is that I keep looking for the living God in the midst of all of these different contexts. And, and so it's not that I'm required to do it. It's that I yearn to do it because I, I am more connected because the piece of the divine that is in me that gift of the Holy Spirit that has been given to me is is outwardly seeking the divine.

33:32.18
Nathan Pile
And i'm i'm in a I feel more fully Nathan when I'm in that connection with the divine, with the with the Holy One. And so that process of seeking, though it's not about um claiming something. or It's not about having the relationship to be able to say,

33:56.54
Nathan Pile
now that I have this relationship, do this thing for me. It's not about that. It's about the this divine spark that has been placed in me by God that is seeking to be connected to that divine spark.

34:09.38
Nathan Pile
And so, so trying to figure that out.

34:09.82
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

34:12.38
Nathan Pile
So again, when I start to talk about that divine singularity or that infinite singularity, that it helps me to recognize or to realize that that it, that that this is, that God is bigger than I am, but God is alive and active in our world in 2026.

34:31.16
Nathan Pile
six but God was alive, you know, 12,000 years ago. God was alive, you know, 12 million years ago. Uh, and so, but this is the, this is the, who God is and that it's bigger, bigger than what I ever,

34:50.42
Nathan Pile
um might imagine or, or the box that I try to put God in is is always bigger than God is always bigger than the box I try to put God in and recognizing that in our world. And so, so you know, I feel called towards the divine, towards that infinite singularity that is, that is there because it's more than the idols that we create.

35:17.08
Nathan Pile
Our idols become those small boxes that we can say,

35:17.47
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

35:20.71
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

35:21.82
Nathan Pile
you know, idols live in, in this space. God is constantly, we're trying to push God into that space and God's saying, I'm bigger than that.

35:32.38
Nathan Pile
um um I'll break apart your box. You know, that again, we see that in Jesus's ministry throughout the New Testament of people say, this is who you are as the son of God.

35:41.42
Nathan Pile
And Jesus says, no, but this is who I am as the son of God. So I think that would be the, the thing that, that this passage and and this question kind of ah strike me is is, the thing I'm called to is, to is, is that seeking of the divine one, the infinite singularity, God, whatever term you want to use. um Because that right relationships make, makes me more fully who God intends me to be.

36:23.10
Nathan Pile
So, but it is that relationship piece that you're talking about. Hmm.

36:27.32
Kevin Shock
yeah, um, well, ah, one, the one piece of your reflection that I particularly appreciate is um

36:27.67
Nathan Pile
so

36:35.96
Kevin Shock
talking about that box and maybe that's why, you know, like we know, I think in our heart of hearts that idols don't deliver long term. um But the thing that happened, the thing about idols is that, you know, and a lot of times idols are are are literal physical representations of a god or or or be even, you know, in some cultures they become the god themselves. The thing about idols is like they're portable.

37:04.60
Kevin Shock
ah we, we, We can put them into a box and take them with us and make them do what we want them to do.

37:05.04
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah.

37:10.49
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

37:13.05
Kevin Shock
and, And the the the creator and redeemer and sustainer of the universe does not allow for that to happen.

37:25.17
Kevin Shock
we, we can't, God is, God is with us everywhere we go, but we cannot package God up and make God operate on our own terms. however we want.

37:37.88
Kevin Shock
and, And maybe that's some of the draw, some of the, the attraction to idols is that we can do that with them.

37:46.26
Kevin Shock
So, yeah.

37:50.55
Kevin Shock
All right, third time.

37:52.12
Nathan Pile
Third time through.

37:53.14
Kevin Shock
Okay, Psalm 115.

37:53.55
Nathan Pile
Let's it.

37:55.73
Kevin Shock
Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to your name give glory for the sake of your steadfast love and your faithfulness. Why should the nation say, where is their God? Our God is in the heavens. He does whatever he pleases.

38:08.47
Kevin Shock
Their idols are silver and gold, the work of human hands. They have mouths, but they do not speak. They have eyes, but they do not see. They have ears, but they do not hear. They have noses, but they do not smell.

38:20.47
Kevin Shock
They have hands, but they do not feel. They have feet, but they do not walk. They make no sound in their throats. Those who make them are like them. So are all who trust in them.

38:31.64
Kevin Shock
O Israel, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield. O house of Aaron, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield.

38:41.24
Kevin Shock
You who fear the Lord, trust in the Lord. He is their help and their shield. The Lord has been mindful of us. He will bless us. He will bless the house of Israel. He will bless the house of Aaron.

38:53.17
Kevin Shock
He will bless those who fear the Lord, both small and great. May the Lord give you increase, both you and your children. May you be blessed by the Lord who made heaven and earth The heavens are the Lord's heavens, but the earth he has given to human beings.

39:09.02
Kevin Shock
The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence. But we will bless the Lord from this time on and forevermore. Praise the Lord.

39:21.53
Kevin Shock
Nathan, what gods are you tempted to follow? I'm glad you're going first on this one, buddy.

39:29.19
Nathan Pile
Well, I just have a laundry list of things. um

39:31.99
Kevin Shock
Okay.

39:32.69
Nathan Pile
Success.

39:35.64
Kevin Shock
yeah

39:36.60
Nathan Pile
Importance. ah

39:46.11
Nathan Pile
Well-respected by others. That would be another idol. you know Being seen as a good leader. Those would all be things like that are that are out there in front of me as I try to live life, right? And so, um

40:07.42
Nathan Pile
you know, I would never say I want like a trophy of Nathan at the end. But at the same time, I probably, there's times I live life seeking the trophy of Nathan.

40:22.58
Nathan Pile
If that makes sense. So, yeah.

40:25.61
Kevin Shock
Sure it does.

40:27.42
Nathan Pile
and then And then there would be like ah the idol of a nice car, of a nice cabin in the woods.

40:39.26
Nathan Pile
I don't know if I have a dream of a nice home in the woods. I have a, you know, have an adequate home in the woods here as camps. It's not mine. But I think I'd prefer a cabin in the woods. like That would be an idol of seeking...

40:55.38
Nathan Pile
and seeking my own, my own land, my own property, my own space.

41:08.21
Nathan Pile
and I, and, And the power, and I wouldn't seek it as an idol so much that it would have power over me, but that by having it, it would give me something that I feel like I'm missing, if that makes sense?

41:21.02
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

41:23.38
Nathan Pile
So, because it's not that I think about, oh, like if I just had a little a little cabin in the woods next to a stream surrounded by forest, um then I would have peace.

41:35.90
Nathan Pile
But again, that's not really true.

41:42.25
Kevin Shock
Isn't it?

41:45.46
Kevin Shock
No, I, I mean, I agree with you. I agree with you.

41:48.82
Nathan Pile
Isn't it though? Yeah. I think I almost had you convinced to join me in the cabin in the woods there with that one.

41:54.03
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

41:55.66
Nathan Pile
um But like again, it's, so it's not that the the property has the the power over me, but that, that or that I would like believe it in that way, but my image of what I think of,

42:10.01
Nathan Pile
would bring me that peace and again um from time to time I still can fall into that deception but then there's also times that I recognize that, that, that peace isn't going to happen because I have a cabin in the woods um peace comes from the relationships that I live in and how I live in those relationships and how I engage with God around relationship that's where I find peace or I should seek to find peace so um so but again I think the the ones that are are pretty big in front of me are are those the ideas of success and and cultural um

43:00.89
Nathan Pile
cultural um trophies that we might put out in front of us as defining what it what it would be so those would be those would be some of the

43:06.95
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

43:16.06
Nathan Pile
some of the gods that I am tempted to follow and and and I would absolutely admit that I do follow from time to time um get sucked in and then hopefully God helps me see that and and step away from it at other times but um you know wanting Sequanota to be the greatest faith formation summer camp of the western hemisphere would be an idol of what does that look like, how do we make this that space

43:51.80
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah well

43:56.18
Nathan Pile
And forgetting that it's just about a relationship with God and how it can be as simple as many, many ways that that relationship could look instead of thinking that it has to be every minute of every day has to be programmed in such the perfect way so that people eke out the bone, all of the marrow of faith and love from a week of camp.

44:12.64
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah.

44:17.92
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, yeah, I'm, I don't know. I, I want Sequanota to be the, whatever you said it was, the most successful, greatest camp, camping ministry in the Western hemisphere.

44:32.60
Kevin Shock
ah I want that to be the case too. I think that, I think that there can be good reasons for that. I mean, ah maybe God wants that to happen too. Think of all the people, think of all the glory that would be given to God and all the relationship with God that would be built and with a community that would be built if that were the case with Sequanota.

44:52.86
Kevin Shock
But I guess it's, I guess it depends how we describe, how we define great and success.

44:53.04
Nathan Pile
Sure.

44:57.76
Nathan Pile
Right.

44:58.97
Kevin Shock
And, um you know, yeah,

44:58.98
Nathan Pile
Right. Because the end goal should just be about them having a relationship with God.

45:04.22
Kevin Shock
yeah, yeah.

45:04.86
Nathan Pile
And we as human beings have the tendency, not to say that it would happen, but that we have the tendency to to put all of our eggs then in, well, Sequanota is everything, and, and it's, it's but it's all about a relationship with God in the end.

45:18.95
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

45:20.89
Nathan Pile
So...

45:21.46
Kevin Shock
and, And I think that's the difficult thing for so sometimes for people to understand is that um we can say the exact same words. and And depending on how our heart is positioned, we might be talking to God in some situations or we might be talking to an idol.

45:39.99
Kevin Shock
in another situation.

45:40.01
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

45:42.14
Kevin Shock
Like there, there, I think that there are different, different methods by which we want to achieve the same end goal. And, um, and I guess, I guess if the end goal is the thing itself, then we're seeking idols. If the end goal is greater relationship with God, then we're, then we're probably seeking God.

46:05.63
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

46:09.63
Kevin Shock
Right. It's the question of would a cabin by a stream, you know, and in the woods, would that draw you into closer relationship with God? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

46:20.89
Nathan Pile
It absolutely can.

46:22.55
Kevin Shock
It can.

46:23.63
Nathan Pile
Right.

46:23.99
Kevin Shock
it can.

46:24.15
Nathan Pile
But if I stop praying because I'm at the cabin and I need to fix the cabin so that the cabin is perfect, then I've probably lost.

46:31.18
Kevin Shock
Right. Right. Then the cabin itself can become the idol.

46:32.74
Nathan Pile
It's become the idol.

46:34.33
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

46:34.33
Nathan Pile
Yeah. It's become the idol.

46:36.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah. yeah

46:39.51
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

46:40.60
Nathan Pile
yeah

46:41.03
Kevin Shock
I, I mean, I think, yeah, I think, I think the idol for me is, um, it it all kind of whatever the idol is, it all kind of boils down to the quick fix.

46:42.01
Nathan Pile
How about you? What, what idols you got, buddy?

46:53.51
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

46:53.81
Kevin Shock
Um, I, I definitely want, um,

46:58.82
Kevin Shock
I want resolution. Resolution is an idol that I seek, I think. like I, I like to go bed and everything is wrapped up nicely and neatly so I can sleep through the night and not think about the things that are still on my plate when I wake up in the morning.

47:12.28
Kevin Shock
But the reality is there's always something that's still on the plate when I wake up in the morning because that's what it means to live among living people and, and to have a, a world in flux and...

47:16.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

47:24.06
Kevin Shock
and to always be in some kind of liminal or transitional space. I mean, that's just the reality of it. um I want resolution and God brings resolution, but never or hardly ever in the in the way or the time that I desire it, I guess is a good way to put it.

47:46.81
Kevin Shock
I think for me, comfort is an idol. I want to, I want to have a fair amount of comfort in my life. And that that comes in different ways too. I want,

48:02.17
Kevin Shock
I want to be left alone sometimes.

48:07.83
Kevin Shock
I don't don't know what that with the name of that idol is. but, but I think, But I think that's

48:12.98
Nathan Pile
I want to be left alone.

48:16.02
Kevin Shock
think i think that's ah I think that's related to comfort. I think, you know, so solitude. Solitude on my terms.

48:30.07
Kevin Shock
Isolation on my terms. that's, That's what I, you know, those are the things that I crave. Yeah.

48:40.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah, I want, I want people to always do the right thing. And that's and again, I think that, I think God always wants people to do the right thing too. I, I want it for selfish reasons. I want it for i want it so that I'm, I don't have to worry about it anymore or be bothered by it anymore.

48:58.94
Kevin Shock
Which is, yeah, that's idolatrous. It's idolatrous. It...

49:09.89
Kevin Shock
That wanting to be left alone. and bo Honestly, that wasn't one of the first ones I thought of. So some for some reason, God is bringing this forth so that I own up to it, maybe. um

49:22.04
Kevin Shock
don't Don't hear me that I want to be left alone all the time. That's not true. and and And yeah, gosh, please, please, if you're listening to this and I'm your bishop, don't say, oh, I'm i'm not going to call him because he wants to be left alone. No, that's not.

49:35.29
Kevin Shock
but I'm saying this is a problem for me. I'm, Please don't hear that this is a this this is the idol that I chase sometimes. And not all the time, but sometimes.

49:43.76
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Yeah.

49:45.21
Kevin Shock
Sometimes when I'm tired, you know, I, you know, we all... um I think we all have those those experiences of the the phone rings and now we all have caller and we see the name on there and sometimes we went, oh yeah, oh good, this person's calling me. And sometimes the exact same person can call and it's just a big sigh and either you silence your phone or you steal yourself for what is going to come whenever you answer the phone.

50:15.10
Kevin Shock
And that's not, yeah, that's, that's not the kind of relationship that God desires us to have with one another. But it is, it's reality. It's reality because we're human beings who want things the way that we want them and and want to order things the way that we want to order them and want things on our terms and sometimes people think of people as things instead of people.

50:36.80
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

50:37.14
Kevin Shock
So, yeah, those are the...

50:38.47
Nathan Pile
Well, and as you bring this up and talk about it, and it is a like I could see a lot of us in the hustle of our world today, wanting, wanting it to be less and that our relationships with each other have suffered because of it.

50:56.47
Nathan Pile
And, and the almost a hope, ah, helplessness of saying, how do I fix it? And so then we, we become... we, we seek the idol right then we're then we're after the idol instead of um because we're just looking for relief in the midst of the hustle of our world so

51:21.45
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

51:22.87
Nathan Pile
and, and, and all and, and I guess the thing that that that sits for me as I think about that this is is that what we're talking about is we we want that to that that that holy divine relationship that, that fills us up and, and, and, and and helps us to feel blessed. um

51:46.30
Nathan Pile
But that we like that, that's the, that's one of the drives, but what ends up, what we end up putting out in front of us is the idol, which is, is not the full image of what God intends for us.

52:02.15
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Yeah, yeah.

52:03.19
Nathan Pile
Because it seems maybe it seems easier or it's um, or it's more immediate, or um

52:15.70
Nathan Pile
we don't think that we can reach the bigger goal. And so we we compromise with our own self and say, well, if I just had this, then

52:26.21
Nathan Pile
I don't know. So, well, I do know, but like, I don't have the answer.

52:27.06
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

52:30.50
Nathan Pile
I'm just...

52:33.23
Nathan Pile
wrestling with the thought of what that where all of that is.

52:36.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, sure.

52:42.97
Nathan Pile
Anything else, my friend?

52:44.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah. No, I don't think so. Let's go ahead and hear those additional texts.

52:48.25
Nathan Pile
some d Additional texts would be Acts chapter 17, verses 22 through 31. This is Paul's message to the Athenians, the people of Athens.

53:02.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and that's, that's a good one to look at related to the psalm that we just read. That's the, uh, to the, the, the people who build an altar to an unknown God.

53:16.60
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

53:18.68
Nathan Pile
The other Psalm, the, the we read the provisional reading. this is The other Psalm though is, is Psalm 66, verses 8 through 20. Bless our God, you peoples. Let the sound of praise be heard.

53:35.61
Nathan Pile
1 Peter 3, verses thirteen through twenty two the days of Noah, a sign of baptism. And the gospel is John 14, verses Christ as our advocate.

53:47.66
Nathan Pile
The other Old Testament provisional text is Ezekiel 43, verses 1-7a.

53:55.93
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

53:56.56
Nathan Pile
Again, this is, God resides among the people forever. Again, that idea of the living God among us, with us.

54:06.57
Nathan Pile
Kevin, as always, thank you for your reflections and your time here today as we chatted about this passage. Again, we encourage those of you listening to share your thoughts and reflections with us, just like those we've kind of shared ah in our shout out here at the beginning. We always appreciate and enjoy ah reading or hearing your thoughts when you get a chance to either share those to us in person or take the time to send it on as an email or on social media.

54:35.90
Nathan Pile
ah So thanks for for that interrupt those interactions. Again, helping us to live together in that relationship that God intends for us to have with with God and with each other. so

54:48.71
Kevin Shock
Yep.

54:49.27
Nathan Pile
We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. a Grace to you.

54:54.19
Kevin Shock
And peace.